Ryan Clady appears to be regressing

[DenBronx]

Posted by Evan Silva on May 19, 2012, 3:01 PM EDT

Ryan Clady of the Broncos was hailed as perhaps the top young left tackle in football four years ago, when he protected Jay Cutler’s blind side well enough to allow 0.5 sacks in 16 starts. Clady “earned” Pro Bowl and first-team All-Pro honors the following season, largely because his name recognition grew based on rookie-year performance.

It’s been a bit downhill from there.

Bill Williamson of ESPN.com has passed along Clady’s sacks allowed numbers from Stats Inc. Since permitting just the half-sack of Cutler in 2008, Clady has served up 24.5 sacks over the past three seasons. Clady was penalized a dozen times and allowed a career-high nine sacks last season despite the fact that the Broncos ranked last in the league in pass attempts.

READ FULL ARTICLE:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/19/ryan-clady-appears-to-be-regressing/

[smith49]

well to be fair, he was trying to protect an unpredictable passer who was often in places that no lineman could prdict. even having said that, his play has not been as good as good. i think manning is going to help that matter also.

[shank]

protecting the fainting goat and the rebel with a cause was a tall order for clady. he will look better with a legit 3-step drop behind him. who knows, maybe his 'bad numbers' the last couple seasons will save us some money on what i think is still a great LT.

[DenBronx]

"If it's important to you, you will find a way. If not you'll find an excuse."

The good players find a way no matter what excuses are in front of them.

[SR]

Clady will be fine.

[MOtorboat]

You'll be amazed what a real quarterback will do for the offensive line in passing situations.

[Simple Jaded]

Clady's 1/2 sack rookie season wasn't just all Ryan Clady, a lot of factors went into the OL's sack totals that year. Not the least of which was the fact that the ball came out on time. Ryan Clady is the least of Denver's worries, when you give up 1/2 a sack as a rookie there is nowhere to go but down, that is setting the bar ridiculously high. He is neither as good as his 1/2 sack season nor as bad as his 9 sack season, he's somewhere in between but far closer to the former, imo.......

[MOtorboat]

Cutler held the ball as long as anyone, so that's a ridiculous notion...

Clady will be fine with a great quarterback.

[Simple Jaded]

I didn't say the OL owed all their '08 success to Cutler, just that the ball came out on time and that helps an OL. I didn't say that Cutler never held onto the ball as long as anyone, just that the ball came out on time and that helps the OL. What's ridiculous is the implication that the OL gave up something like 12 sacks on the season without the help of the ball coming out on time.......

[nevcraw]

if Clady doesn't hold the PP the Hanie era will begin at once..

[DenBronx]

Cutler also had a way of making average WRs look much better than they are so let's not go there shall we????

[TXBRONC]

Posted by Evan Silva on May 19, 2012, 3:01 PM EDT

Ryan Clady of the Broncos was hailed as perhaps the top young left tackle in football four years ago, when he protected Jay Cutler’s blind side well enough to allow 0.5 sacks in 16 starts. Clady “earned” Pro Bowl and first-team All-Pro honors the following season, largely because his name recognition grew based on rookie-year performance.

It’s been a bit downhill from there.
Bill Williamson of ESPN.com has passed along Clady’s sacks allowed numbers from Stats Inc. Since permitting just the half-sack of Cutler in 2008, Clady has served up 24.5 sacks over the past three seasons. Clady was penalized a dozen times and allowed a career-high nine sacks last season despite the fact that the Broncos ranked last in the league in pass attempts.

READ FULL ARTICLE:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/19/ryan-clady-appears-to-be-regressing/

The last two quarterbacks he had to protect had a them same bad habit of holding onto the ball two long. Add to that one couldn't slide around the pocket to save his life and the other struggled to read where the blitz was coming from.

[Nomad]

Clady will be fine.

Yeah, I think Clady will be fine. I believe I'm a little more cautious about Walton and hopefully he can live up to Saturday's potential.

[Dapper Dan]

Cutler would throw the ball anywhere and everywhere to keep from getting sacked. The numbers don't tell the whole truth.

[Cugel]

Do you people even know that Clady played hurt the entire 2010 season from an off-season knee injury? He has admitted that he didn't feel healthy that entire season and clearly struggled.

Then he had to protect Orton and Tebow, probably the two WORST QBs in the NFL at taking sacks. Orton had ZERO pocket presence and little mobility.

Worse, defenses didn't respect his arm, so they could load the box with 8 defenders and blitz the hell out of him. Tebow was worse in that he wanted to take off and run with the ball every time the WR wasn't open. He would NEVER release the damn ball!

His first instinct was to tuck it and run. All those exciting "reverse field" maneuvers Tebow loved to try are exciting to watch, but that's got to be Hell on his blockers.

You will see Clady this season be a lot more healthy and protecting a QB who has the quickest release in football. Manning has been sacked fewer than once a game for many years. One year he was only sacked 9 times all season!

That's not because he had a Hall of Fame OL. Rather he always knows where the pressure is coming from and gets rid of the ball in a hurry. He's accurate with his passes and can get the right play called at the line.

All that limits the number of sacks dramatically.

[shank]

Do you people even know that Clady played hurt the entire 2010 season from an off-season knee injury?

seriously, who the **** are you arguing with? do you even read threads?

[Simple Jaded]

seriously, who the **** are you arguing with? do you even read threads?

This isn't the first we've heard about Clady and his so-called regression since his rookie season, maybe that's generally what Cugel is referring to.......

[Dapper Dan]

This isn't the first we've heard about Clady and his so-called regression since his rookie season, maybe that's generally what Cugel is referring to.......

Fans constantly trash players. It happens. Especially on message boards. 90% of the time we're everytime.

[NorCalBronco7]

Still gots lots of love for Clady. He'll always be one of my Bronco favorites. And even though hes hasnt lived up to my expectations, which where through the roof, I think he'll have a much better season with a year removed from the injury and get back into the elite talk.

[bcbronc]

Clady needs two things to get back into the conversation for best LT in the game: health and continuity of scheme. He's learning at least one, sometimes two new schemes every year. And when's the last time he had a full and healthy offseason?

[silkamilkamonico]

No excuses.

Clady needs to start playing better, dominating more, and prove that he is one of the better tackles in the NFL, period.

Couldn't agree more with that article.

[Chef Zambini]

I dont hear any clady bashing around here.
seems to me that most of my fellow posters have faith in clady and know that the numbers dont tell the whole story.
on my list of things to not be concerned about,
clady is at the top of that list.
the title made me think there was a camp reprt regarding his conditioning or something,
CLADY is probably one of PMs deciding factors about coming to denver !

[Dapper Dan]

I dont hear any clady bashing around here.
seems to me that most of my fellow posters have faith in clady and know that the numbers dont tell the whole story.
on my list of things to not be concerned about,
clady is at the top of that list.
the title made me think there was a camp reprt regarding his conditioning or something,
CLADY is probably one of PMs deciding factors about coming to denver !

I always want to read your name as Chief Zamboni.

[vandammage13]

No excuses.

Clady needs to start playing better, dominating more, and prove that he is one of the better tackles in the NFL, period.

Couldn't agree more with that article.

I agree...

I think people are letting their fandom get in the way if they think that Clady is anything more than a solid LT at this point.....

If Clady played for the Bucs or Rams, I doubt people on here would think he was one of the best LT's....They would just see him for what he is, which is a solid LT, not bad but nothing special.

That is always my litmus test for evaluating Broncos players...Would I still hold the same opinion of him if he played for another team?

[Dapper Dan]

I agree...

I think people are letting their fandom get in the way if they think that Clady is anything more than a solid LT at this point.....

If Clady played for the Bucs or Rams, I doubt people on here would think he was one of the best LT's....They would just see him for what he is, which is a solid LT, not bad but nothing special.

That is always my litmus test for evaluating Broncos players...Would I still hold the same opinion of him if he played for another team?

I like the Bucs.

[Cugel]

Right now the Broncos are negotiating a long-term contract with Clady. If they sign him up for another 5 years we know that they feel he is a ten year starter at LT.

That's an elite player. A guy you can plug in and not worry about that position for ten seasons. That's what every team wants at LT but not everybody gets him.

Hence the top LTs taken in the draft always go in the top 10 players almost every year.

[Ravage!!!]

Cutler held the ball as long as anyone, so that's a ridiculous notion...

Clady will be fine with a great quarterback.

But Cutler has proved to help the Chicago OL as well. Just proves, as you said, that Clady will be fine once a real QB is behind center again.

[Cugel]

Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
Cutler held the ball as long as anyone, so that's a ridiculous notion...

The biggest difference between Cutler and Orton/Tebow, was that defenses had to respect Cutler's arm. That meant they couldn't just line up 7 or 8 defenders in the box and dare Cutler to throw over the top of them.

That makes a HUGE difference in the amount of pressure they could generate on defense. You can get more sacks with 7 or 8 defenders than with 4. A lot more.

So, even if the amount of time Cutler held the ball was the same as Orton/Tebow, which I seriously doubt, the number of sacks he would suffer would still be a lot fewer just because defenders have to play him honestly, no cheating up in the box.

Same thing with Manning of course. You're going to see a HUGE difference in the way defenses have to try and approach defending Manning versus Orton or Tebow. A defense that cheats against Manning is very, very likely to pay a price.

He'll see it and exploit it.

[NightTerror218]

This season will be so much better for him. Manning will get the ball out quick and Clady will have less him he is holding a guy back not to mention his QB wont be running from sideline to sideline making him adjust and hold the guy.

[Ravage!!!]

People stacked against Orton because he didn't throw downfield and didn't threaten anyone other than the short passes he constantly threw. Tebow couldn't throw, so they stacked. Manning is like Marino. Its not a coincidence that both QBs took less sacks.

[Npba900]

"If it's important to you, you will find a way. If not you'll find an excuse."

The good players find a way no matter what excuses are in front of them.

The chaotic environment Clady has had to endure since Shanny's firing has definitely affected his play. When Clady found out that Elway shuttled the Tebow Circus out of Denver, Clady was so relieved. When Clady found out that Elway convinced Manning to come to Denver to bring back sanity to the QB position, he smiled and grinned so hard----Clady pulled his facial muscles.:D

[Npba900]

Clady needs two things to get back into the conversation for best LT in the game: health and continuity of scheme. He's learning at least one, sometimes two new schemes every year. And when's the last time he had a full and healthy offseason?

I believe Clady lining up with Manning will rejuvenate resurrect his career. No doubt Manning will inspire and challenge Clady to play his best. Imagine Manning telling "Clady", hey man I know during the last few years you've been struggling, however, throw out those years, and let's you and I get on the same page and improve our timing together."

No doubt with Manning behind center, Clady will know exactly how long he must hold his blocks in passing situations to be a key cog of insuring consistency within the Broncos passing schemes.

[shank]

I believe Clady lining up with Manning will rejuvenate resurrect his career.

When you can't decide, use both.

[TXBRONC]

Cutler held the ball as long as anyone, so that's a ridiculous notion...

Clady will be fine with a great quarterback.

Cutler never had a problem with holding onto the ball too long. Even elite quarterbacks like Manning will hold onto the ball longer than they should every once in awhile. Orton and Tebow on the other hand consistently hold onto the ball way too long.

[DenBronx]

I agree...

I think people are letting their fandom get in the way if they think that Clady is anything more than a solid LT at this point.....

If Clady played for the Bucs or Rams, I doubt people on here would think he was one of the best LT's....They would just see him for what he is, which is a solid LT, not bad but nothing special.

That is always my litmus test for evaluating Broncos players...Would I still hold the same opinion of him if he played for another team?

No....it's just that we know what he is capable of and that's much much more. We have seen him dominate and would like for him to get back to dominating form this year.

[LTC Pain]

Clady is going to be fine. Particularly with Manning at QB. Yeah, Clady is regressing about like the Patroits are. Muahahaha!

[Cugel]

People stacked against Orton because he didn't throw downfield and didn't threaten anyone other than the short passes he constantly threw. Tebow couldn't throw, so they stacked. Manning is like Marino. Its not a coincidence that both QBs took less sacks.

For a QB the key question is always, "do defenses have to respect his arm or can they cheat?"

If the defense can bring extra defenders to blitz or smother the underneath receivers, then it gives them an advantage. Defenses just lined up and were coming after Orton, play after play. It looked like a jail-break.

With Tebow, once they learned to be more disciplined about his cut-backs it was the same thing. Load up the box with 8 defenders and take away the run.

NOBODY tries that against Manning. Years ago teams tried to blitz him, but he so consistently beat the blitz and recognized disguised coverages that defenses simply have to play him "honest."

Maintain tight coverage on your receiver and try and get pressure right up the middle with only 4 pass-rushers. Teams like the Giants can do that because they have great inside pass-rushers. Most teams CAN'T.

Even when you do this you're not normally going to stop Manning, but you hope to slow him down enough that your offense can outscore him, keep him off the field and limit his chances. When the Colts lost in the playoffs, it was usually this pattern, with a frustrated Manning standing on the sidelines.

That's why the Colts kept crushing the Broncos in the playoffs. You can't lay off Peyton Manning unless you want him to eat you alive. And you can't pressure him and bring extra defenders or he'll recognize it and go right to the weak area for a big play. And you can't just play back and expect him to "make a mistake" because he usually doesn't.

If Demaryius Thomas and Decker are healthy this season you can expect Denver to score a lot and Ryan Clady isn't going to be a problem.

[NightTerror218]

Clady improving this year so far

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/49415/clady-albert-playing-at-a-high-level

[shank]

**** yeah.

[EMB6903]

All of us knew Manning under center would instantly make cladt atleast a problem bowler.

I'd be surprised if he's not an all pro selection.

Peyton Manning is that good.

[Traveler]

Clady improving this year so far

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/49415/clady-albert-playing-at-a-high-level

Can someone say contract year? ;)

[NightTerror218]

Can someone say contract year? ;)

and he is going to get paid.....and it better be from the broncos.

[DenBronx]

Well lets just wait and see if Clady plays like he did earleir in his career or if he regresses back to how he did with Orton and Tebow. THEN we will pay him. Keep Manning squeeky clean and you get paid....it's that simple.

[TXBRONC]

Well lets just wait and see if Clady plays like he did earleir in his career or if he regresses back to how he did with Orton and Tebow. THEN we will pay him. Keep Manning squeeky clean and you get paid....it's that simple.

It's damn near impossible to pass block for quarterback who hold onto the ball to long, or has trouble sliding away from pressure, or has trouble reading a defense. With that kind of dysfunctions it can make any offensive line or lineman make them look bad.

[Ravage!!!]

All of us knew Manning under center would instantly make cladt atleast a problem bowler.

I'd be surprised if he's not an all pro selection.

Peyton Manning is that good.

Clady is THAT good.

Clady was never "not" good. But when you have QBs that don't threaten defenses enough not to put 9 in the box, it makes the OL very difficult. When you have a QB that holds onto the ball too long, and doesn't know how to sit in the pocket, it makes it EXTREMELY hard on OL. HOw is the OL supposed to know where the QB is if he's not where he's suppose to be???

Clady was great with Cutler behind center because Cutler knows how to use a pocket.

[Dapper Dan]

Aaaaand here it goes. This thread will now become a Tebow argument.

[Ravage!!!]

Aaaaand here it goes. This thread will now become a Tebow argument.

No. Not unless you want to turn it to one. THe points are valid. Its not a coincidence that our same OL went to crap the moment Orton became our starting QB. ITs not a coincidence that it had a ton of holding penalties with Tebow as the starter. Its not a coincidence that the same OL is now better with a pocket passer in the lineup. Just because Tebow's name is mentioned, doesn't make him the topic of discussion... UNTIL we get the "Oh here we goes"...and argue based on HIS name.

Time to let it go.

[Dapper Dan]

No. Not unless you want to turn it to one. THe points are valid. Its not a coincidence that our same OL went to crap the moment Orton became our starting QB. ITs not a coincidence that it had a ton of holding penalties with Tebow as the starter. Its not a coincidence that the same OL is now better with a pocket passer in the lineup. Just because Tebow's name is mentioned, doesn't make him the topic of discussion... UNTIL we get the "Oh here we goes"...and argue based on HIS name.

Time to let it go.

Whenever his name is mentioned, that's when it begins. I don't want to turn it into that type of argument. Hopefully by bringing it up it will make people intentionally keep from turning it into a Tebow debate just to prove me wrong. Either that, or it will be my fault for pointing it out and the inevitable will happen.

[Dapper Dan]

Time to let it go.

I agree. But people will say that and show examples of the contrary.

[Ravage!!!]

Whenever his name is mentioned, that's when it begins. I don't want to turn it into that type of argument. Hopefully by bringing it up it will make people intentionally keep from turning it into a Tebow debate just to prove me wrong. Either that, or it will be my fault for pointing it out and the inevitable will happen.


I agree. But people will say that and show examples of the contrary.

Dude, this is the last comment to this. But by "complaining" about that QBs name, you MAKE it an argument. Orton's and Cutler's name were mentioned as well in this discussion. By you complaining, it makes it worse.


Now please, let it go and lets get back to the topic. Thanks.

[shank]

I agree. But people will say that and show examples of the contrary.

yeah, but those people will be wrong.

[TXBRONC]

Aaaaand here it goes. This thread will now become a Tebow argument.

Not at all. Clady blocked for three quarterbacks prior to Manning two of them had some major shortcomings as passers that made the offensive line look bad. It wasn't one or the other it was both. That doesn't mean he didn't make mistake he made plenty of them but I have never agreed with criticism that he regressed.

[Dapper Dan]

Not at all. Clady blocked for three quarterbacks prior to Manning two of them had some major shortcomings as passers that made the offensive line look bad. It wasn't one or the other it was both. That doesn't mean he didn't make mistake he made plenty of them but I have never agreed with criticism that he regressed.

People try to hard to place blame on different people. Our offensive line was awesome when Orton threw for so many yards and started 6-0. They were awesome at run blocking last season. I've just come to hold the player in question accountable for what happens at their position.

[NightTerror218]

No. Not unless you want to turn it to one. THe points are valid. Its not a coincidence that our same OL went to crap the moment Orton became our starting QB. ITs not a coincidence that it had a ton of holding penalties with Tebow as the starter. Its not a coincidence that the same OL is now better with a pocket passer in the lineup. Just because Tebow's name is mentioned, doesn't make him the topic of discussion... UNTIL we get the "Oh here we goes"...and argue based on HIS name.

Time to let it go.

Then how come it was Clady with the holding penalties and not the rest of the line. Franklin did not have nearly the holding penalties that Clady did. IMO Clady has been progressing from his injury and getting back to form. Yes its harder to block for any young QB, even harder for a mobile one. But Clady was the individual OL who was getting 90% of the holding calls and leading the league in holding calls, means it was not just the young mobile QB behind him. He was also getting the holding calls with Orton.

Clady show signs of regression after the injury when was blocking for Orton. He stayed in the pocket like a statue and did not move. He was getting holding calls then.

My point in this post is IMO Clady is back to where he was before. He is playing at that high level again. Manning does help but Clady is flat out playing better and deserves to get paid.

[jhildebrand]

It's skewed. Cutler and his mobility kept the line looking better than they were at times by avoiding sacks.

Clady screwed himself not taking the $10 mill per year. I said that then and it remains true now.

[jhildebrand]

By the way, those arguing Clady was suipposed to "protect" 'he who shall not be named' are failing to acknowledge one very important fact-that was the RT's job last year as he was a lefty QB ;)

[NightTerror218]

By the way, those arguing Clady was suipposed to "protect" 'he who shall not be named' are failing to acknowledge one very important fact-that was the RT's job last year as he was a lefty QB ;)

And franklin did not have nearly the holding penalties.

[Ravage!!!]

By the way, those arguing Clady was suipposed to "protect" 'he who shall not be named' are failing to acknowledge one very important fact-that was the RT's job last year as he was a lefty QB ;)

I'm not even sure what the hell this means? Isn't all offensive lineman supposed to protect the QB? Also, aren't most the premiere rushers coming from teh back-side of RIGHT handed QBs, thus, the LT would still be facing them most of the time?? I have absolutely no clue what your point is on this. Makes no sense.

What I do know, is that when we've had good pocket passers behind center, the 1st round pick Clady performs like a first round pick LT and will get paid like one at the end of the season.

[NightTerror218]

I'm not even sure what the hell this means? Isn't all offensive lineman supposed to protect the QB? Also, aren't most the premiere rushers coming from teh back-side of RIGHT handed QBs, thus, the LT would still be facing them most of the time?? I have absolutely no clue what your point is on this. Makes no sense.

What I do know, is that when we've had good pocket passers behind center, the 1st round pick Clady performs like a first round pick LT and will get paid like one at the end of the season.

i think he ment that Franklin becomes the blind side blocker for a lefty.

Not to mention being a rookie, they would attack Franklin. Premiere rushers can switch sides and putting them on Franklin would be their advantage.

[Ravage!!!]

i think he ment that Franklin becomes the blind side blocker for a lefty.

Not to mention being a rookie, they would attack Franklin. Premiere rushers can switch sides and putting them on Franklin would be their advantage.

Hah.. ok, if you say so

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Has Clady even allowed a sack yet this season? I don't think he has. Both he and Franklin are doing very well in pass protection to this point. Almost all of the pressure on Peyton is coming up the middle or from unaccounted for blitzers.

[NightTerror218]

Has Clady even allowed a sack yet this season? I don't think he has. Both he and Franklin are doing very well in pass protection to this point. Almost all of the pressure on Peyton is coming up the middle or from unaccounted for blitzers.

we have a new center we will see if he can hold off wilfork....cause he cause havoc last season.

[jhildebrand]

I'm not even sure what the hell this means? Isn't all offensive lineman supposed to protect the QB? Also, aren't most the premiere rushers coming from teh back-side of RIGHT handed QBs, thus, the LT would still be facing them most of the time?? I have absolutely no clue what your point is on this. Makes no sense.

What I do know, is that when we've had good pocket passers behind center, the 1st round pick Clady performs like a first round pick LT and will get paid like one at the end of the season.

Pretty simple, Rav :noidea: "Protecting" is protecting a QBs blind side. With a left handed Qb that becomes the RT not the LT. It is a bit of a misnomer to say Clady wasn't protecting TT.

Finally, I agree, partially anyway, that Clady looks better and "like a 1st round pick" with a pocket passer behind C but only to a point. Staley, Long, Roos, and Brown all rate higher in that they can run block better than Clady. He has a long way to go when it comes to the running game.

[TXBRONC]

People try to hard to place blame on different people. Our offensive line was awesome when Orton threw for so many yards and started 6-0. They were awesome at run blocking last season. I've just come to hold the player in question accountable for what happens at their position.

Actually I did hold him accountable but also know you can't tunnel vision because not all sacks are on the offensive line. Clady did blow some of assignments but am not naive or blind Orton and Tebow were notorious for holding onto the ball way to long.

I don't recall anyone saying the Broncos offensive line was awesome when they 6-0 and I don't see the relevance of bringing that up considering that not even half season. IIRC after starting 6-0 Denver went 2-8 the rest of way.

[MOtorboat]

Pretty simple, Rav :noidea: "Protecting" is protecting a QBs blind side. With a left handed Qb that becomes the RT not the LT. It is a bit of a misnomer to say Clady wasn't protecting TT.

Finally, I agree, partially anyway, that Clady looks better and "like a 1st round pick" with a pocket passer behind C but only to a point. Staley, Long, Roos, and Brown all rate higher in that they can run block better than Clady. He has a long way to go when it comes to the running game.

Teams don't adjust their pass rush schemes for what hand the quarterback throws with. The best rusher is still typically coming off the left side of the line.

And the draft pick obsession continues...how is that even remotely relevant to evaluating Clady's play right now?

[TXBRONC]

Has Clady even allowed a sack yet this season? I don't think he has. Both he and Franklin are doing very well in pass protection to this point. Almost all of the pressure on Peyton is coming up the middle or from unaccounted for blitzers.

I know Moreno flat out wiffed on a blocking assignment.

[Ravage!!!]

Pretty simple, Rav :noidea: "Protecting" is protecting a QBs blind side. With a left handed Qb that becomes the RT not the LT. It is a bit of a misnomer to say Clady wasn't protecting TT.

Finally, I agree, partially anyway, that Clady looks better and "like a 1st round pick" with a pocket passer behind C but only to a point. Staley, Long, Roos, and Brown all rate higher in that they can run block better than Clady. He has a long way to go when it comes to the running game.

Ohhh... they "rate" higher. By whom? Cause I've seen some of the ratings some of you guys throw out, and those sites (despite you hanging your hat on them) don't really mean much.

Has Clady given up sacks? Has anyone said that the other guys you mentioned weren't good, also??? :confused: So I'm stumped as to why you would even say "they rate higher" (which really means absolutely nothing to me) when you are telling me that Clady is still amongst the top 5 in LTs....yet... you want to say he has a LONG ways to go.

I'm still pretty confused as to the point you are trying to make. I mean, I know you are a fan of the QB that is no longer here, but are you trying to say that Clady wasn't good enough when he was here?? What is the point you are trying to make with your "ratings" of a player? Is he getting Manning sacked? Has he had holding issues? Has he been offsides a ton?? What is it you are trying to say? Because if you are trying to prove that he "should have" taken the money instead of play this year out with Manning, you are so far.....wrong. If you think we are going to let Clady go at the end of the year, and HOPEFULLY find a LT that can fill his spot as well as he does, with a QB like Manning behind center, then you are sadly mistaken.

[Dapper Dan]

Teams don't adjust their pass rush schemes for what hand the quarterback throws with. The best rusher is still typically coming off the left side of the line.

And the draft pick obsession continues...how is that even remotely relevant to evaluating Clady's play right now?

Because Denver could have traded back and gotten Ray Rice and Desean Jackson. Obviously.

[MOtorboat]

Because Denver could have traded back and gotten Ray Rice and Desean Jackson. Obviously.

Of course...

The "Insert random selection after said selection who made a Pro Bowl" argument...

[Chef Zambini]

how does PM rate clady. thats all that matters!
think JE gave a rats ass what anyone else thought about zimm?
as long as PM and MO are ok with ryan clady, then he is ok by me too.
should we ask moreno what he thinks of clady?
F no !

[jhildebrand]

And the draft pick obsession continues...how is that even remotely relevant to evaluating Clady's play right now?

:rolleyes:

Rav is the one focused on the 1st round status here. Try to keep up.

[jhildebrand]

Ohhh... they "rate" higher. By whom? Cause I've seen some of the ratings some of you guys throw out, and those sites (despite you hanging your hat on them) don't really mean much.

Has Clady given up sacks? Has anyone said that the other guys you mentioned weren't good, also??? :confused: So I'm stumped as to why you would even say "they rate higher" (which really means absolutely nothing to me) when you are telling me that Clady is still amongst the top 5 in LTs....yet... you want to say he has a LONG ways to go.

I'm still pretty confused as to the point you are trying to make. I mean, I know you are a fan of the QB that is no longer here, but are you trying to say that Clady wasn't good enough when he was here?? What is the point you are trying to make with your "ratings" of a player? Is he getting Manning sacked? Has he had holding issues? Has he been offsides a ton?? What is it you are trying to say? Because if you are trying to prove that he "should have" taken the money instead of play this year out with Manning, you are so far.....wrong. If you think we are going to let Clady go at the end of the year, and HOPEFULLY find a LT that can fill his spot as well as he does, with a QB like Manning behind center, then you are sadly mistaken.

Jeebus Rav. My point was clear. I made two simple posts. The first was that Clady made the wrong gamble at the beginning of this season passing on the $10 million per year he was offered.

Second, people were lobbing the "protection" term and Tebow around and I simply highlighted that the idea of protection is a misnomer because TT can see the rush coming from Clady's side. The protection last year was Franklin at RT. Pretty simple :coffee: But you are doing your best to infer and find anything to read between the lines to make it something it isn't :lol:

By the way, my other post on Clady was direct and clear as well: his run blocking leaves a ton to be desired when compared to the other LT's I listed. Even then, statistically, Clady's numbers aren't where Jake Long's are yet he is INSISTING he be paid like Long. I know those two sentences are lot for you but let me translate: no rating service needed!

[ShaneFalco]

I think Clady is still very good from the games so far this season.

[Softskull]

If Clady keeps this up and barring injury, Jhil is wrong. Clady made the right decision passing up the $10Mil. Next year will be a giant payday.

That being said, Elway et al were smart to throw that number out to see if Clady would bite. Well played good sir.

[Ravage!!!]

Jeebus Rav. My point was clear. I made two simple posts. The first was that Clady made the wrong gamble at the beginning of this season passing on the $10 million per year he was offered.

Its pretty clear you are wrong. People said the same thing when Marshall was being traded. People insisted that he wouldnt' be paid as high as the TOP WRs in the NFL because going by the "ratings" that they read, he just didn't match up. Hmmmmm. Seems you guys want to take these "ratings", that some website gives out, and take it as solid gold as to how the NFL looks at the player. Not so much. :coffee:

Because how the "ratings" rank up, doesn't matter. What matters is how important Clady is to THIS team. Do you honestly believe that if Clady stays healthy, keeping him on the team will not be an absolute priority?? They will pay him the amount he's "INSISTING" (this is funny, because using the word "insist" in negotiations is just laughable) for because having a top LT on the roster is a HUGE HUGE benefit compared to "looking" for a LT.

The point is pretty simple. Clady has been very good, and despite some of you wishing to believe that he "just wasn't good enough" last year because you liked that QB, isn't going to change that fact.

Softskull is right on. Elway made an offer that was "good" but not great, in order to HOPEFULLY snag a very good LT for less money. Clady and his agent played it correctly. He'll get the "Jake Long" money because he's worth it, despite what your 'ratings' say on the website you read.

[bcbronc]

I agree completely with Rav. These ratings people cite are completely useless. Trying to make something as complex as a blocking assignment for examp,e a simple made it/didnt make it dichotomy is completely ridiculous and not worth the bandwidth it takes to post these "analysis", imo.

[Softskull]

Although I agree with BC, its hard to tell who's analysis is worth a damn, PFF rated Clady through his first four games

0 Sacks
0 Hits allowed
1 Hurry

all that = payday

[Chillez]

Although I agree with BC, its hard to tell who's analysis is worth a damn, PFF rated Clady through his first four games

0 Sacks
0 Hits allowed
1 Hurry

all that = payday

Yup, expect huge payday $$$ for Clady in offseason.

[Chef Zambini]

clady good.
me likey.

[chaoticmayhem]

I don't worry about Clady's side of the line at all.

[TXBRONC]

It's skewed. Cutler and his mobility kept the line looking better than they were at times by avoiding sacks.

Clady screwed himself not taking the $10 mill per year. I said that then and it remains true now.

Cutler being moblle doesn't explain only giving up half a sack.

[TXBRONC]

Because Denver could have traded back and gotten Ray Rice and Desean Jackson. Obviously.

That would have been foolish considering how badly Denver needed to rebuild it's offensive line.

[bcbronc]

Cutler's mobility doesn't fully it explain it. It's way to early to say Clady has screwed himself.

It's funny because Cutler gets sacked like potatoes in CHI and it all gets blamed on his OL. But then when his jersey stayed clean in DEN it's because of Cutler.

[Simple Jaded]

It's funny because Cutler gets sacked like potatoes in CHI and it all gets blamed on his OL. But then when his jersey stayed clean in DEN it's because of Cutler.

When you give up 11 sacks in a season I think it's fair to say that, not only the QB's ability to avoid sacks, but also playcalling has a lot to do with it.......

[TXBRONC]

It's funny because Cutler gets sacked like potatoes in CHI and it all gets blamed on his OL. But then when his jersey stayed clean in DEN it's because of Cutler.

He did have a better offensive line here in Denver but it's not realsitic to think that Clady only giving up half sack is almost solely on Cutler's mobility. Tebow is evvery bit as mobile but he took a lot sacks last years.

[TXBRONC]

When you give up 11 sacks in a season I think it's fair to say that, not only the QB's ability to avoid sacks, but also playcalling has a lot to do with it.......

How many times was that Orton and Tebow both held onto the ball to long?

[Ravage!!!]

I wonder if Clady's All-pro selection will mean he gets paid, or if Elway will pay attention to those 'ratings' that some internet site puts out?? :confused:

[Joel]

It's funny because Cutler gets sacked like potatoes in CHI and it all gets blamed on his OL. But then when his jersey stayed clean in DEN it's because of Cutler.
Chiming in late after the bump, but Orton got sacked like potatoes in Chicago, too, and so did Grossman before him: The Bears' offensive line has been well established as awful pass blockers, to the extent they retooled the whole thing a couple years ago. My first reaction to the Cutler trade was "crap, we lost our QB," immediately followed by "CHICAGO?! You poor SOB.... :(" Cutler DID have a great line in Denver, at least in terms of pass blocking, but he also had Hamilton at LG and Wiegmann at C; since McDumbass replaced them with Walton and Beadles none of Cutlers successors have been equally blessed with quality pass protection. I could excuse that if our new guards provided the running game any more line surge, but if anything they provide LESS.

None of that has anything to do with Clady, whose outside knee was banged up nearly all of last year, leading to a lot sacks, or holding calls when DEs or LBs blew by him because he couldn't pivot fast enough to keep up with them. An offseason to rest and heal did wonders for his performance, though Mannings ability (or Tebows lack of ability) to read defenses and quickly accurately get the ball out surely helped, too. Maybe Clady deserves a big pay day; he certainly won't get any part of the MVP award if Manning wins it, any more than Jeff Saturday will get a share of Aaron Rodgers' 2012 Passing Title.

As far as stats and analysis, "line stat" is almost a contradiction in terms. Even for people who know WTF they're talking about (a huge qualifier for many "analysts,") evaluating a lineman pretty much requires watching tape of all plays where he was in the game. Determining if/when he missed a block is closer to determining the "intended receiver" than to determining a completion. It's a judgement call much of the time, and thus no better than the judgement of the person calling it. Multiply that by 50 plays or so, then 16 games, and even the teams coaches aren't making more than a well educated guess; most other people are outright speculating. Technology has made it much easier for the average fan to watch and re-watch every play, and thus every block (missed or not,) but VERY few fans have the time or inclination.

Many analysts suggest their use of sacks or rushing average normalized against all opponents somehow demonstrates the analysts unique insight/knowledge, but all it really demonstrates is how difficult line play is to evaluate: Examining the EFFECT(s) is much easier (but far less informative) than examining the CAUSE(s.) Unfortunately, two tackles, a center, a guard and a pair of tight ends can do their jobs perfectly all game and still never get a first down if the other guard is a turnstile for every LB, DT, DE and DB on the opposing team. The whole TEAMS rushing average and sack total (not to mention its record) suffers as a result, but unless someone sits down to watch the tape it's impossible to single out any one guilty party. It's not quite as bad as 20 years ago, when commentators (other than Dierdorf) never mentioned a lineman unless he did something horribly wrong, but rating a line/lineman is a far from exact science even for those with the desire and knowledge to attempt it.

Clady's a fine lineman who's had a couple bad years due to injury, but debating that is a nearly pointless exercise. Few people have the knowledge or data, and evaluating it is highly subjective even for those few.

[Poet]

Clady's a hoss. A lot of factors played into his regression that have been discussed. Health, QB, system are all huge factors for a left tackle. I think it's also worth pointing out that he was still pretty young. Sometimes young players start out hot and then slide for a little bit. I don't think he ever had a truly bad year and now he's has two studly years.

Even if he never has a monster year like this again, it doesn't really matter. It's better to pay a LT big time top five LT money and have him perform as a top ten LT than to not have him. LT's are hard to find.

[DenBronx]

How many times was that Orton and Tebow both held onto the ball to long?

Clearly we know now with Manning that Clady looks much much better with a REAL QB.


But it isnt just Clady. From the WRs, to the TEs, to Knowshon and even to the defense, Manning has really helped make this team alot better!