Clint Hurdle Fired

[GEM]

Rockies fired Clint.

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-hurdle-052909,0,5022811.story

DENVER, Colo. - Less than two years after he led the franchise to its first World Series appearance, Clint Hurdle is out as manager of the Colorado Rockies, the Denver Post reported Friday, citing a Major League Baseball source.

Hurdle, who managed the team for seven years, will likely be replaced by Rockies' bench coach Jim Tracey, the Post reports.

The team scheduled a news conference for 2:30 p.m. Mountain Time to announce the move.

After a remarkable post-season run in 2007, the Rockies finished 74-88 during the 2008 campaign and are currently in last place in the National League West division with a record of 18-28.

The Rockies host the San Diego Padres this weekend.

Copyright © 2009, KDVR-TV

[Dortoh]

:tsk:

[G_Money]

Clint Hurdle lasted far longer than he should have. The question is what are the Monfords gonna do at manager after the "interim," and why does the GM still have his job? If they're gonna clean house and start fresh, I'd like the house to actually be clean, not just smear the muck around on the windows, change out the welcome mat and call it good.

~G

[Dortoh]

I liked Clint but he managed a pitching staff just about as badly as a manager could.

[GEM]

Clint Hurdle lasted far longer than he should have. The question is what are the Monfords gonna do at manager after the "interim," and why does the GM still have his job? If they're gonna clean house and start fresh, I'd like the house to actually be clean, not just smear the muck around on the windows, change out the welcome mat and call it good.

~G

Let's really clean house.


Hey Monfords...you cheap sob's, sell the effing team. Do Colorado a favor.

Love,
Sickofthosecheapbastardskillingagreatbaseballcity

[MOtorboat]

Clint Hurdle lasted far longer than he should have. The question is what are the Monfords gonna do at manager after the "interim," and why does the GM still have his job? If they're gonna clean house and start fresh, I'd like the house to actually be clean, not just smear the muck around on the windows, change out the welcome mat and call it good.

~G

Don Baylor should be the interim.

[OrangeHoof]

Well, how fast do you fire a guy who got the overachieving Rockies to the World Series?

I don't know if Colorado can ever sustain a winning tradition until they figure out a way to consistently pitch effectively at Coors. They tried throwing money at the problem and that's not the way to go. You need to find pitchers with great sinkers that induce plenty of grounders. That's the only type I think will have long-term success pitching at Coors.

[G_Money]

Coors Field is 13th in park factor in HRs this year in a small sample size.

Last year it was 3rd, so obviously HRs were still given up...but they're no longer lapping the universe in HRs like they used to before the humidor.

The top 8 (all over 1.15) in 2008 were the Orioles, the White Sox, the Rockies, the Reds, the Rangers, the Tigers, the Cubs and the Astros.

Those are all homer-friendly fields, but nobody's telling the White Sox they can't win, say, a WS playing on that field. The pure death that Coors used to be to pitchers it isn't any more - they just need to convince free-agent pitchers of that, and maybe crack open a wallet once in a while.

It'd be nice to get some good sinkerballers in, but the key is just to get good pitching. Avoiding pure flyballers would be good, but really roster construction has not be a GM strength. Getting value for departing players has not been a strength. Not being cheap has not been a strength.

There are a lot of non-strengths to go around, even with Hurdle gone...

~G

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Let's really clean house.


Hey Monfords...you cheap sob's, sell the effing team. Do Colorado a favor.

Love,
Sickofthosecheapbastardskillingagreatbaseballcity

GEM - you are EXACTLY correct - the Monfords are by FAR, the worst owners in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

[MOtorboat]

GEM - you are EXACTLY correct - the Monfords are by FAR, the worst owners in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

Whoa.

I'm just gonna stop you there.

:aldavis:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Don Baylor should be the interim.

I agree - but according to this article, it was ODowd's doings to bring Tracy here this year, so things may have already been in the works then. There is NO Manager who will be successful here on a long term basis, with the CHEAP OWNERS!!!!!!!

http://cbs4denver.com/sports/mlb.colorado.rockies.2.1024011.html

The Colorado Rockies have fired manager Clint Hurdle less than two years after their incredible "Roctober" run to the World Series. He was replaced by bench coach Jim Tracy.

Without reliable hitting, pitching or defense, the Rockies stumbled to an 18-28 start and were 14 1/2 games behind Los Angeles in the NL West heading into Friday night's action.

Hurdle, who had been Colorado's manager since replacing Buddy Bell three weeks into the 2002 season, was 534-625 for a .460 winning percentage in his seven-plus seasons.

Since the Rockies' one and only trip to the World Series in 2007, where they were swept by the Boston Red Sox, Colorado was 24 games under .500 with Hurdle at the helm.

Tracy has a 562-572 managerial record with the Los Angeles Dodgers (2001-05) and Pittsburgh Pirates (2006-07), with a division title in 2004. He joined the Rockies' staff this winter at the behest of general manager Dan O'Dowd.

Hurdle, who was in the final year of his contract, was hamstrung this season by the loss of his best hitter and his best pitcher as the Rockies got off to their second straight slow start, which affected attendance.

Slugger Matt Holliday was traded to Oakland in November after refusing a contract extension, and ace Jeff Francis was lost for the season with shoulder surgery this spring -- not that Hurdle ever used that as an excuse.

Hurdle was never one to complain about the club's cost-conscious ways, which likely helped earn him a longer leash from ownership than fans would have liked.

Except for that magical month at the end of the 2007 season, when the Rockies won their first NL pennant by going on an unfathomable 21-1 run-up to the World Series, Hurdle's teams never were very good.

Aside from their 90-73 record in '07, when they won the wild-card in a memorable one-game playoff against San Diego, the Rockies owned nothing but losing records under Hurdle -- he's the only manager in major league history to begin his career with five consecutive losing seasons and not get fired for it.

Ownership stuck by their man for years because of his loyalty during the long rebuilding process when the Rockies pulled in their financial reins following some embarrassing and costly mistakes. Until the roster was refurbished and the young core of players seasoned, Hurdle was as much fan ambassador as manager.

Many expected Hurdle to get fired last year, when the Rockies started out 20-38 and never recovered. He stuck around but after the season, he was asked by the front office to change his approach and juggle his coaching staff, bringing on Tracy and hitting coach Don Baylor.

He set a more disciplinarian tone at spring training. Yet, the Rockies seemed to get away from that when the season started, and things quickly went downhill. O'Dowd, who also is in the final year of his contract, gave Hurdle a vote of confidence earlier this month, as did co-owner Dick Monfort.

The Rockies continued to struggle at the plate, on the mound and, consequently, at the turnstile.

The Dodgers outscored them 31-13 in a three-game sweep at Coors Field this week that proved to be Hurdle's last hurrah. After losing 8-6 in front of a sparse crowd on a beautifully sunny Wednesday afternoon, several players blamed themselves for the bad start but sensed Hurdle's time was up.

"I think we think about things like that," Todd Helton said. "We know what's at stake."

The Rockies have been at a loss to explain their inconsistent play.

"I think it's only natural to start pressing a little when you aren't winning," Helton said. "You expect to have ups and downs throughout the season, but we still should be playing better baseball than this."

Earlier this week, Hurdle spoke about the team's litany of troubles in all phases of the game but said it really came down to this: "We haven't played good baseball. So many times in society, and even in sports, we try to make things more complicated than they are."

[OrangeHoof]

Coors Field is 13th in park factor in HRs this year in a small sample size.

Last year it was 3rd, so obviously HRs were still given up...but they're no longer lapping the universe in HRs like they used to before the humidor.

The top 8 (all over 1.15) in 2008 were the Orioles, the White Sox, the Rockies, the Reds, the Rangers, the Tigers, the Cubs and the Astros.

Those are all homer-friendly fields, but nobody's telling the White Sox they can't win, say, a WS playing on that field. The pure death that Coors used to be to pitchers it isn't any more - they just need to convince free-agent pitchers of that, and maybe crack open a wallet once in a while.

It'd be nice to get some good sinkerballers in, but the key is just to get good pitching. Avoiding pure flyballers would be good, but really roster construction has not be a GM strength. Getting value for departing players has not been a strength. Not being cheap has not been a strength.

There are a lot of non-strengths to go around, even with Hurdle gone...

~G


But Coors is a huge expanse in the outfield. It isn't just a home run park, it's a park where fielders have a huge acreage to patrol. That's why you want mostly ground ball pitchers because it is easier to keep a ball on the infield than to go chase it down in the outfield.

True, that's not the Rockies' only problem but if you're going to build a dynasty there, you'll need to know which types of pitchers can be effective there. Until that lesson is learned, they won't ever climb out of their rut.

[Benetto]

From a dodgers fan who struggled to watch a Jim Tracy coached team:

The Rockies can call it a season now with Tracy playing Skipper...He is a horrible downgrade from big C. Tracy barely ever matches up his players vs the opposition good. He continuously rotates the lineup trying to get the most of his key players, but always fails...And he loves to tuck his tail in between his legs and say "Its a long season"...Other than Grady Little, probably one of the worst recent Coaches the Dodgers have had..Not to mention the Pirates as well.

I actually thought Clint did a pretty damn good job in his 7 years as Skip....Considering he had his big guns taken away from him time after time...I have always had a soft spot for the Rockies, and wish them good luck with a joke of a head coach.

Rock fans, I feel for ya...Especially you Buff.

[GEM]

From a dodgers fan who struggled to watch a Jim Tracy coached team:

The Rockies can call it a season now with Tracy playing Skipper...He is a horrible downgrade from big C. Tracy barely ever matches up his players vs the opposition good. He continuously rotates the lineup trying to get the most of his key players, but always fails...And he loves to tuck his tail in between his legs and say "Its a long season"...Other than Grady Little, probably one of the worst recent Coaches the Dodgers have had..Not to mention the Pirates as well.

I actually thought Clint did a pretty damn good job in his 7 years as Skip....Considering he had his big guns taken away from him time after time...I have always had a soft spot for the Rockies, and wish them good luck with a joke of a head coach.

Rock fans, I feel for ya...Especially you Buff.

Yep, only so much you can do when every time you coach a guy up from the start and the minute he is due some money the damn ownership ships them off.

If you don't have the cash to support a MAJOR league team, go buy a MINOR league team. Until there is new ownership this franchise isn't going anywhere.

[MOtorboat]

And Joe Torre was an idiot, run out of St. Louis, Atlanta AND Philadelphia...

[Benetto]

And Joe Torre was an idiot, run out of St. Louis, Atlanta AND Philadelphia...


Torre is a leader...Might be an idiot, but he knows how to coach a team.

[MOtorboat]

Torre is a leader...Might be an idiot, but he knows how to coach a team.

He wasn't in Atlanta, St. Louis and Philadelphia...baseball is more about talent than any other sport. Firing managers in baseball really is almost worthless.

Typically managers have about a five game swing in record in baseball, where as getting the right talent can have a 20-game swing at the least.

[Benetto]

He wasn't in Atlanta, St. Louis and Philadelphia...baseball is more about talent than any other sport. Firing managers in baseball really is almost worthless.

Typically managers have about a five game swing in record in baseball, where as getting the right talent can have a 20-game swing at the least.


I agree..

[MOtorboat]

I agree..

I know. Because I'm right. :D

[Benetto]

I remember rooting for the Skysox Minor league team from Co Springs back in the early 90's...Are they still around?

[Benetto]

I know. Because I'm right. :D


Cheers bro...

Tracy is still a hack.

[slim]

I like Clint, but it is time for a change.

Maybe if we hadn't traded our best player for 3 scrubs???

[BroncoAV06]

I doubt O'Dowd is back since he is on the last year of his deal, Hurdle was in his final year as well.

The talent level overall is a heck of a lot better then the Rockies of the past in terms of position players, have depth on the bench and some good names inthe minors but it just has not been able to translate to the field in terms of wins.

Of course pitching is always going to be a tricky subject in Colorado. With the humidor its not a total launching pad, you just have to build a team a little different. Cook, Francis, Marqius, are good pitchers for Coors, and Ubaldo has teh best ERA as a starter at Coors. Problem always steems back to the pen. The Rockies have never been able to put a quality pen together. Thats where you win and lose games at Coors with the ability for teams to score runs.

I liked Hurdle but you can only go so far when a team is not performing.

Sure does not help to have Atkins off to his worst start of his career, Tulo not being able to find his stroke at the plate, Francis out for the year, team just has not been ever able to put it together after the World Series run.

I understand that Colorado is just not ever going to be at the level of the Dodgers etc.. But I just want to see a competitive team that is not out of the race by June. Make some runs at the Wild Card, maybe a division crown once in a while.

I know the Holliday trade pissed everyone off. But Gonzales does look like a player: .343 avg, .427 OBP, 7 HR, 50 RBI, 6 SB.
Not bad if Fowler developes well thats a nice 1-2 punch in the OF.
EY Jr, future DP combo with Tulo.

Then you just hope that Reynolds, Morales, Speier, Chacin, few names off the top of my head can comtribute on the mound sometime.

[drewloc]

God help us all if the Rocks retain O'Dowd, he has been a major reason in this teams failures. I agree with GEM, if you are going to clean house, do it!

[MOtorboat]

I remember rooting for the Skysox Minor league team from Co Springs back in the early 90's...Are they still around?

Yes, they are the Rockies Triple-A team.

[Rick]

One question...

Can an owner be fired?

Thats where the REAL problem lies...

[OrangeHoof]

And Joe Torre was an idiot, run out of St. Louis, Atlanta AND Philadelphia...

Torre never managed in Philadelphia except with the visiting team. Next time, do some research.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/torrejo01.shtml

[MOtorboat]

Torre never managed in Philadelphia except with the visiting team. Next time, do some research.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/torrejo01.shtml

My bad, it was the Mets, not the Philly's. The point is still accurate. He was run from all three teams because owners thought he was a terrible manager. Now, he is a genius with four World Series Championships under his belt.

Was my point wrong?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

My bad, it was the Mets, not the Philly's. The point is still accurate. He was run from all three teams because owners thought he was a terrible manager. Now, he is a genius with four World Series Championships under his belt.

Was my point wrong?

Not hard to win a number of World Series when your owner spends as much money as is needed to do so. That will never happen with the Rockies - at least not with the current owners.

[MOtorboat]

Not hard to win a number of World Series when your owner spends as much money as is needed to do so. That will never happen with the Rockies - at least not with the current owners.

That's exactly the point, though...managers don't matter.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

God help us all if the Rocks retain O'Dowd, he has been a major reason in this teams failures. I agree with GEM, if you are going to clean house, do it!

Is it O'Dowd, or is he just the owner's puppet? He is playing with their money, and I am sure he is told exactly how far he can, or can not go with it. I have absolutely no use for the Rockies owners.

[OrangeHoof]

My bad, it was the Mets, not the Philly's. The point is still accurate. He was run from all three teams because owners thought he was a terrible manager. Now, he is a genius with four World Series Championships under his belt.

Was my point wrong?

"Idiot" is a subjective term. When he managed the three franchises before the Yankees, in 5 of his 11 full seasons he had a winning record, including one divisional title (Atlanta, 1982) and two second-place finishes (Atlanta, 1983 and St. Louis, 1991). If that's an idiot, at least 60% of major league managers wish they were that stupid.

So, if your point was that Joe Torre was a "terrible manager", yeah, you got it wrong. If your point was that managers don't make more than a few games' difference in W-L records, I would probably agree.

And it should be noted that while people believe most players get more savvy as they age, somehow people never expect managers to do so. Perhaps Torre's failures with the Mets made him better when he was with the Braves and his failures with the Braves made him better when he was with the Yankees. And he's obviously done something right turning around the Dodgers. So maybe he isn't as stupid now as he was when he was managing the Mets back in the 1970s.

[MOtorboat]

"Idiot" is a subjective term. When he managed the three franchises before the Yankees, in 5 of his 11 full seasons he had a winning record, including one divisional title (Atlanta, 1982) and two second-place finishes (Atlanta, 1983 and St. Louis, 1991). If that's an idiot, at least 60% of major league managers wish they were that stupid.

So, if your point was that Joe Torre was a "terrible manager", yeah, you got it wrong. If your point was that managers don't make more than a few games' difference in W-L records, I would probably agree.

And it should be noted that while people believe most players get more savvy as they age, somehow people never expect managers to do so. Perhaps Torre's failures with the Mets made him better when he was with the Braves and his failures with the Braves made him better when he was with the Yankees. And he's obviously done something right turning around the Dodgers. So maybe he isn't as stupid now as he was when he was managing the Mets back in the 1970s.

I guess we've got a Torre fan here..."idiot" was being a little sarcastic and hyperbolic, for dramatic effect.

Sorry it got you so hot and bothered.

The POINT, as I reiterated, which you failed to comment on, is that managers have very little affect on a team in baseball.

[drewloc]

Is it O'Dowd, or is he just the owner's puppet? He is playing with their money, and I am sure he is told exactly how far he can, or can not go with it. I have absolutely no use for the Rockies owners.

I'm sure it's a combination of both, but that does not change my opinion of O'Dowd at all.

[MOtorboat]

I'm sure it's a combination of both, but that does not change my opinion of O'Dowd at all.

He's probably not getting the dollars it takes to get it done in scouting.

[OrangeHoof]

I guess we've got a Torre fan here..."idiot" was being a little sarcastic and hyperbolic, for dramatic effect.

Sorry it got you so hot and bothered.

The POINT, as I reiterated, which you failed to comment on, is that managers have very little affect on a team in baseball.

I DID comment on your point, which you even included in your reply:


If your point was that managers don't make more than a few games' difference in W-L records, I would probably agree.

[MOtorboat]

I DID comment on your point, which you even included in your reply:



Again, you fail to comment on the actual point.

Go ahead and test my baseball knowledge. Do it...I look forward to it.

[OrangeHoof]

Again, you fail to comment on the actual point.

Go ahead and test my baseball knowledge. Do it...I look forward to it.

Well, let's see.

We discussed Babe Ruth vs. black pitchers and you cite female pitchers from the 1950s after Ruth was dead.

Then we discussed Joe Torre who you claim is an "idiot" who managed in Philadelphia.

I don't see why I should embarrass you any further by trying another baseball question. I think your baseball credentials are already established.

[MOtorboat]

Well, let's see.

We discussed Babe Ruth vs. black pitchers and you cite female pitchers from the 1950s after Ruth was dead.

Then we discussed Joe Torre who you claim is an "idiot" who managed in Philadelphia.

I don't see why I should embarrass you any further by trying another baseball question. I think your baseball credentials are already established.

Your reading comprehension sucks, as does your knowledge of baseball, apparently.

Two things that you apparently missed. Your statement was that good pitching didn't exist in the Negro Leagues. You were wrong, and that's OK. You point to one female pitcher to try and prove that I didn't know what i was talking about, while I cited plenty of black pitchers that would have overlapped with Babe Ruth. Argument fail.

I said "he was considered an idiot," and since I've heard some of the people I believe are the best historical baseball minds say that, then I'm going to take their word over yours. Plus, it wasn't even the point of the argument, which, AGAIN, you failed to catch. I'm sorry I forgot that it was the Mets and not the Phillies, but that was NEVER the point of the post. Good lord. :rolleyes:

Shit, I even told you the statment was hyperbole and you continue to be an ******* about it.

[OrangeHoof]

MY reading comprehension sucks? :tsk:

Good luck with those "English as a second language" courses. Hope they help.

[MOtorboat]

MY reading comprehension sucks? :tsk:

Good luck with those "English as a second language" courses. Hope they help.

So, since I've completely turned your argument (or lack there of), in both situations, around, do you have a comment?

So, go ahead...attack my baseball knowledge, it at least makes my night entertaining.