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View Full Version : 'Rooney Rule' may be applied to GM searches



Lonestar
05-23-2009, 01:18 PM
Associated Press
Thursday, May 21, 2009

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- NFL teams looking to hire general managers may soon be required to interview at least one minority candidate.


Commissioner Roger Goodell said Wednesday the league's owners discussed expanding the Rooney Rule -- which already applies to coaching openings -- during the final session of their two-day meetings in South Florida. No vote was taken, though Goodell indicated any changes could be made soon.

"It's a judgment I will make with the diversity committee," Goodell said.

The Rooney Rule is named for Steelers owner Dan Rooney. It was born nearly seven years ago, when two lawyers threatened to sue the NFL if it didn't open up more opportunities for minorities. Rooney led a committee to develop a policy to stop what the league viewed as an embarrassing lack of diversity.

Expanding that policy to GMs isn't expected to meet much resistance.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/may/21/rooney-rule-may-be-applied-to-gm-searches/

frauschieze
05-23-2009, 01:35 PM
Affirmative action ticks me off.

G_Money
05-23-2009, 01:42 PM
Me too - if I have to hire the unqualified guy.

Ask the black head coaches in the NCAA if they were happy to get that first job interview that allowed them to get a foot in the door. Oh wait, you can't, because there aren't any. (Okay, sorry, there are what, 5 out of 120 schools, of which 75% of the athletes are black, and none of them at top football schools?) No Rooney rule there has led to a ridiculous dearth of black head coaches unexplainable by a simple lack of qualified black applicants.

And that's how the NFL used to be. Black people were too stupid to play QB or coach a team...until they were given a chance to prove they weren't.

The NFL is a monopoly. Great black coaches and front office people can't go somewhere else to work at the top of their profession if they hit a ceiling in this one.

I don't mind the interview. Sometimes they're token interviews, and sometimes they're legit or eye-opening.

If the NFL hadn't been so lily-white at the top when they made the rule and so many teams hadn't refused to even consider a black candidate, it wouldn't have been an issue that needed a mandatory interview in the first place.

And now that it's worked well enough for coaches, I don't see a huge problem to spreading a mandatory interview out to GMs.

Forcing people to expand their options isn't bad, as long as you don't force their choices.

~G

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 01:58 PM
I for one realize that most players going to college on a Football scholarship are not Mensa candidate's and for the most part the vast majority of them white, black and pink learned very little there.. let alone how to coach ..

Because 75% of the players are not white does not mean they have to have a moron that can't speak the English language as most players ahve issues with, to be able to get through to them..

If the guy is qualified by all means they should get an interview.. but everyone knows they are getting token brush offs for the most part.. why would they even want to be degraded like that? ..

AS for GM's well the is another class in itself.. For the most part they have little, if any face time with players, as most of the negotiations are done with agents.. when they get cut from the team it is the HC or position coach that does the deed..

Sorry but affirmative action was indeed a thing that needed to be done 50 years ago, but it also promoted a lot of morons into areas they had no qualifications for.. It ran its course 30-40 years ago IMHO..

G_Money
05-23-2009, 02:31 PM
JR - several of the most talented OCs and DCs in college football can't get interviews for head coaching jobs. One went to BUFFALO, that powerhouse of the NE, in order to get a head coaching job, and promptly crushed it as a tremendous head coach. Who knew?

There is a ceiling. It's not a 40 or 50 years ago problem and it doesn't have anything to do with wanting a guy with a 1.6 GPA to coach the football team because he "speaks like the athletes."

Getting the interview gives you a chance to raise your profile. It lets the ADs talk to each other when they're making up their next lists, and maybe put your name on for a serious and not a token interview this time. It lets you PRACTICE your interview, as failed white candidates get to do during their interviews.

There are plenty of brilliant black men capable of being head coaches and general managers. Ozzie Newsome does all right with the Ravens, y'know. And he was the first black man to ever hold a GM position in the NFL. Happened less than 7 years ago.

Maybe there's some room for improvement in that area after all.

~G

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 02:51 PM
JR - several of the most talented OCs and DCs in college football can't get interviews for head coaching jobs. One went to BUFFALO, that powerhouse of the NE, in order to get a head coaching job, and promptly crushed it as a tremendous head coach. Who knew?

There is a ceiling. It's not a 40 or 50 years ago problem and it doesn't have anything to do with wanting a guy with a 1.6 GPA to coach the football team because he "speaks like the athletes."

Getting the interview gives you a chance to raise your profile. It lets the ADs talk to each other when they're making up their next lists, and maybe put your name on for a serious and not a token interview this time. It lets you PRACTICE your interview, as failed white candidates get to do during their interviews.

There are plenty of brilliant black men capable of being head coaches and general managers. Ozzie Newsome does all right with the Ravens, y'know. And he was the first black man to ever hold a GM position in the NFL. Happened less than 7 years ago.

Maybe there's some room for improvement in that area after all.

~G


I do not disagree that there has been an issue.. I know that folks have been looked past..

But to force a interview with someone that is not going to hire them is wrong IMHO.. to get practice IMHO is the wrong way to go about that.. But then I guess I was never denied the opportunity for an interview .. But I was indeed discriminated against, for not being female or black..

cream rises to the top whether black or white..

Ozzie is proof of that..

OrangeHoof
05-23-2009, 03:02 PM
I don't think it goes far enough. The NFL should make sure they have a fair number of Hispanics, Asians, Pacific Islanders, LGBT and women head coaches and GMs. Not to mention owners. We should have a Rooney Rule for owners.

frauschieze
05-24-2009, 05:15 PM
I don't think it goes far enough. The NFL should make sure they have a fair number of Hispanics, Asians, Pacific Islanders, LGBT and women head coaches and GMs.

And that is why affirmative action pisses me off. I understand that the Rooney rule has served/is serving its purpose. But at some point, it becomes an exercise in ridiculousness. Sure, the Rooney rule applies to minorities, but it seems to be black coaches that are benefiting. What about the Hispanics? What about minority group X? Group Y? So on and so forth. Attempting to force equality can go on forever.

Interviews cost time and money. They may not be forcing owners to hire minorities, but they are forcing them to pay for the process.

LoyalSoldier
05-24-2009, 05:23 PM
Forcing people to do things only causes resentment not civility.

Shazam!
05-24-2009, 09:11 PM
Ridiculous and absurd. Teams should hire who they want and think is the most qualified. Morris would've got hired by a team regardless, not because of his skin. What, should they apply it to QBs drafter too? I hate this rule.

UnderArmour
05-24-2009, 09:26 PM
And that is why affirmative action pisses me off. I understand that the Rooney rule has served/is serving its purpose. But at some point, it becomes an exercise in ridiculousness. Sure, the Rooney rule applies to minorities, but it seems to be black coaches that are benefiting. What about the Hispanics? What about minority group X? Group Y? So on and so forth. Attempting to force equality can go on forever.

Interviews cost time and money. They may not be forcing owners to hire minorities, but they are forcing them to pay for the process.

This isn't a good argument. Why the hell as a fan do I care about a rich owner's pocket books? This is a billion dollar industry and you're telling me that an owner can't afford a few extra shillings for a job interview? Give me a break.

frauschieze
05-25-2009, 11:34 AM
This isn't a good argument. Why the hell as a fan do I care about a rich owner's pocket books? This is a billion dollar industry and you're telling me that an owner can't afford a few extra shillings for a job interview? Give me a break.

The hell it's not a good argument. I'm sorry you are only able to look at the situation from a fan's perspective. And I did not say that owners could not afford the process. Only that the rule is making them pay. Go talk to a few business owners about varying legislation that force them to pay for things that are not a benefit to them and see how much they enjoy it.

A decent example from my city is the City Business License. Every year, a business has to pay a small fee to be licensed with the city. It doesn't DO anything. The money they pay goes into the general city accounts and does not benefit the business in any way. I've known a fair share of business owners in this town over the years and not one of them was happy about paying the $10 or $15 a year, even though it wasn't going to break the bank.

Poet
05-25-2009, 12:45 PM
The NFL is such a cutthroat business that I honestly think most owners will hire whoever they think is the best.

Tony Dungy is a HOF coach. Mike Tomlin is already one of the best coaches in the NFL. As far as coaching goes, I think it is safe to say that everyone is getting a fair shake.

As far as the GM goes, I cannot remember the last time I heard a minority's name in the running for a job. Is it do to racism? That seems possible. Is it due to a lack of minoritys tossing their names in the hat? That seems just as possible.

When something like this pops up, I try to keep an open mind. For most people, I think the knee jerk reaction is to think racism or prejudice . I will be interested to see how it plays out.

G_Money
05-25-2009, 12:52 PM
You can't say "we're fine with hiring guys who are qualified and who don't just look like me" When the NFL's record of hiring minorities into positions of power was fairly atrocious prior to this decade.

Funnily enough, this decade is when the Rooney rule happened. Maybe it came along right when we no longer needed it because we're now enlightened enough for it not to be a problem.

But college football sure doesn't reflect that. There are 32 head coaching jobs in the NFL. If a minority candidate can't get an interview, he certainly can't get hired.

And they're obviously not getting head coaching jobs by dropping back to the college level like Kiffin and Carroll did. Norm Chow? Can't buy an interview for a head coaching position at a Division I school.

There are plenty of industries where being a different color than your potential boss does not hamper you. For whatever reason(s), football is not one of those industries.

Maybe there are no good minority head coaching candidates. Coupla years ago we had two black head coaches in the Super Bowl, tho, so that probably isn't true. Another one won the title last year.

There's no quota to hire a black/mexican/polynesian/japanese head coach or GM. All you have to do is call one in for one interview. And then that guy gets his interview experience and you get to realize that just interviewing white guys isn't necessarily the best way to go about hiring a coach/GM.

The NFL avoided a lawsuit by making clubs actually interview minorities. Several years later, Super Bowls are won by minority coaches. Craziness.

Maybe some talented guys WERE being excluded after all.

~G

Poet
05-25-2009, 01:35 PM
You can't say "we're fine with hiring guys who are qualified and who don't just look like me" When the NFL's record of hiring minorities into positions of power was fairly atrocious prior to this decade.

Funnily enough, this decade is when the Rooney rule happened. Maybe it came along right when we no longer needed it because we're now enlightened enough for it not to be a problem.

But college football sure doesn't reflect that. There are 32 head coaching jobs in the NFL. If a minority candidate can't get an interview, he certainly can't get hired.

And they're obviously not getting head coaching jobs by dropping back to the college level like Kiffin and Carroll did. Norm Chow? Can't buy an interview for a head coaching position at a Division I school.

There are plenty of industries where being a different color than your potential boss does not hamper you. For whatever reason(s), football is not one of those industries.

Maybe there are no good minority head coaching candidates. Coupla years ago we had two black head coaches in the Super Bowl, tho, so that probably isn't true. Another one won the title last year.

There's no quota to hire a black/mexican/polynesian/japanese head coach or GM. All you have to do is call one in for one interview. And then that guy gets his interview experience and you get to realize that just interviewing white guys isn't necessarily the best way to go about hiring a coach/GM.

The NFL avoided a lawsuit by making clubs actually interview minorities. Several years later, Super Bowls are won by minority coaches. Craziness.

Maybe some talented guys WERE being excluded after all.

~G
I have no doubt that talented people have been excluded. However, I remember a scenario that still applies to this day.

The Lions were on the brink of making what was then considered a big signing for their franchise. They finally found a coach with good credentials that wanted to be their coach. His name was Steve Mariachi. The guy was a proven winner; he provided experience and was a survivor of the TO days in San Fran.

His fate was sealed when Joey Harrington started to throw the ball, but the point stands.

There was no way in hell that the Lions were goign to sign anyone else. There was not a single head coach candidate who was as strong as Mariachi. That went for anybody G, white, black, green, orange, yellow, etc etc etc.

People harped on them for not wanting to interview anyone else. To be honest, they shouldn't have had to. The best person available was goign to be their coach.

Before I start putting any real credence into the notion of needing more affirmative action I want to see some real hard numbers as far as minorities being shut out. Things along the lines of minorities coaches who have been trying to get jobs and have not been given that shot.

Then I would like to see the resumes of the coaches taken over them.

OrangeHoof
05-25-2009, 02:03 PM
The Lions were on the brink of making what was then considered a big signing for their franchise. They finally found a coach with good credentials that wanted to be their coach. His name was Steve Mariachi.

I remember that guy! Heck of a bandleader. :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: