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Lonestar
05-23-2009, 01:58 AM
By Michael Silver, Yahoo! Sports
14 hours, 24 minutes ago


Joshua Cribbs is a popular man in the Cleveland Browns’ locker room, an undrafted free agent from nearby Kent State who developed into a Pro Bowl kick returner. He is also the team’s unofficial social coordinator, which is of no small importance in a city where success has been scarce in recent years.


“We all love Cribbs,” one Browns veteran said Thursday of the speedy fifth-year receiver, who might also have a future as a defensive back. “He’s the guy who always throws the Halloween parties and the Christmas bashes, so yeah, he’s very popular.”

Mangini was hired to replace Romeo Crennel.

In light of recent developments, that would make Browns coach Eric Mangini the Grinch – and the man who hired him, owner Randy Lerner, Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Cribbs and his bosses are currently locked in what seems on the surface to be a typical NFL contract dispute between a player who has outperformed his long-term deal and a team that is in no hurry to provide an upgrade. In reality, this is a credibility dispute between a dependable, accountable athlete and an abrasive coach consumed with flexing his newly acquired power.


It’s the latest testament to Mangini’s apparent lack of tact and people skills, personality traits he honed under his estranged mentor, New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick. Like two other Belichick disciples, new Kansas City Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli and neophyte Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, Mangini has marked his arrival at a new organization this offseason by alienating established leaders while projecting a self-assuredness that borders on arrogance.


With three Super Bowl titles as a head coach and a prior record of success as a brainy defensive coordinator, Belichick, a future Hall of Famer, can get away with his power trip. Whether Mangini, Pioli and McDaniels are able to pull it off will depend upon how many football games their respective teams win, something that often depends upon the men in uniform buying into the program.

In the meantime, in Cleveland, Kansas City and Denver, the new guys in charge seem to be consumed with winning mind games, a strategy I’m not so sure will serve them well over the long haul.


In Denver, McDaniels’ sloppy handling of his interactions with Jay Cutler after an unsuccessful attempt to trade him at the start of free agency led to the loss of a franchise quarterback, largely because the 33-year-old coach was obsessed with demonstrating his unquestioned authority.

In K.C., Pioli’s arrival as the all-powerful general manager after years as Belichick’s right-hand personnel man was soon followed by a less-publicized incident involving a star player. According to Kansas City Star columnist Jason Whitlock, perennial Pro Bowl guard and locker-room leader Brian Waters asked to be traded or released after becoming offended by the arrogant attitudes of Pioli and his newly hired coach, Todd Haley.


Waters, a source told Whitlock, flew to Kansas City in February specifically to meet with the new GM and coach in an effort to become familiar with their leadership plans. The source said Pioli told Waters he had no interest in meeting and that Haley began a hallway conversation with the player by proclaiming that 22 guys off the street could win two games, as the Chiefs had in ’08.


Mangini, fresh off a 1-4 finish with the Jets that got him fired after three seasons – he had a 23-26 overall record (including a playoff loss) in New York – arrived in Cleveland with a similar swagger. One of his first moves was to orchestrate the firing of director of pro personnel T.J. McCreight, the highest-ranking personnel man remaining after Lerner’s dismissal of general manager Phil Savage, and one of the people who’d interviewed to replace Savage. (Mangini, hired while the GM job was still open, successfully lobbied Lerner to choose Ravens personnel executive George Kokinis.)


McCreight, a source said, was called into the office of team president Mike Keenan, who pulled out cell-phone records showing that McCreight had engaged in conversations with reporters – an act frowned upon by the paranoid Mangini. McCreight explained that speaking with the media was among the duties with which he’d been entrusted by Savage, but he was nonetheless terminated; he has since been hired as the Cardinals’ director of pro personnel.


A team source said Mangini, upon his arrival in Cleveland, was brusque when dealing with other Browns employees and spent most of his time in his office with the door closed. Early on Mangini, according to multiple reports, alienated the team’s top performer from 2008, Pro Bowl defensive tackle Shaun Rogers, by failing to acknowledge him on a pair of occasions: once in the team’s training room and once at a local awards show.


Rogers reportedly asked the team not to pay him a $6 million bonus and to trade or release him. Mangini, who claimed he didn’t notice Rogers at the awards show, apparently patched up the relationship; Rogers recently said the two had put aside their differences “just like grown men do.”


It’s unclear how another Browns defensive lineman, Shaun Smith, feels about Mangini, who a source said told the player during their first interaction at the team’s facility, “Lose some weight and lose the attitude.”


The latest coach-player dustup involves Cribbs, who signed a six-year, $6.7 million contract extension in 2006 and, after a Pro Bowl ’07 season, began earning comparisons to the Chicago Bears’ ultra-explosive breakaway threat Devin Hester. Last July Hester signed a four-year contract extension worth a reported $40 million, which did not go unnoticed by Cribbs.


When Cribbs’ representatives at All-Pro Sports and Entertainment approached Savage last summer about their client’s desire for a new deal, they were told the team was amenable to adjusting his salary following the ’08 season because Cribbs was deserving and was a positive locker-room influence.


Two sources say Lerner, too, was on board with the decision and that the owner, after firing Savage and coach Romeo Crennel immediately after a season-ending defeat at Pittsburgh last December, called Cribbs on the team bus to assure him that regardless of the moves he would honor his word and address the player’s contract situation.

Cribbs had a 92-yard kickoff return for a TD vs. Baltimore in Week 9.

Yet after Mangini’s arrival, no one in the organization expressed interest in negotiating a new deal. Frustrated by the team’s unresponsiveness, Cribbs decided to skip this week’s voluntary minicamp. The Browns then issued a statement that disputed Cribbs’ reported perspective, saying, “no one from the current Browns organization, including Owner Randy Lerner, has ever made any promises to Josh Cribbs with regard to his contract status.”


That, said a source close to Cribbs, “took his anger from Defcon 3 to Defcon 1.” Cribbs, through his representatives, has since asked for a trade, a request the Browns said they were not amenable to honoring.


On Thursday, Cribbs was asked to come to the facility for a meeting with Mangini. The player complied, explaining to the coach that he wouldn’t participate in voluntary offseason activities until the team honors its promise to adjust his contract. Mangini, according to a source familiar with the conversation, said little in return. Cribbs then attended a team meeting before departing the facility, leaving teammates wondering if a resolution is in sight.


“They need to figure out a way to get that fixed,” the aforementioned unnamed Browns player said Thursday, “because the guy is a special player.”


Could the situation be handled any more clumsily? Whatever Mangini’s perception of Cribbs’ value, he should be especially sensitive to the player’s contention that the team broke its promise to upgrade his deal. During Mangini’s tenure with the Jets, three players no longer with the team – guard Pete Kendall, tight end Chris Baker and wideout Laveranues Coles– went public with similar accusations.


Why would a team do business this way? Why did Lerner, with no other NFL franchises in pursuit of Mangini as a head coach, rush to make the hire before naming a GM and then grant him so much control over the team’s football operations? Why is a franchise, whose powerbrokers are paranoid enough to check an employee’s cell-phone records, be so rattled by a player’s absence from a voluntary minicamp that it put out a public statement essentially calling one of its model citizens a greedy liar?


“The whole thing is so screwy,” said one former Browns employee. “I think it’s about control. If the fans knew what was really going on over there, they wouldn’t even buy a ticket.”


Football, of course, is a bottom-line business. Fan support will persist if Mangini, despite his warped methodology, turns the Browns into a winner, as he did with the Jets in his first season. The same goes for Pioli and Haley in K.C. and for McDaniels and his handpicked GM, Brian Xanders, in Denver.

I wonder whether Mangini, Pioli or McDaniels can attain the type of immediate success enjoyed last year in Atlanta under first-year general manager Thomas Dimitroff, another former Pats employee who approached his new job with a far less contentious management style.


If not, it won’t be a very merry Christmas for them or their affronted employees. It’s safe to say that in Mangini’s case, there’s one popular party to which he likely won’t be receiving an invitation.

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 01:59 AM
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TAKE IT TO THE ATM

Jon Gruden, unless forced to room next to me on road trips, will be an engaging, energizing presence in the Monday Night Football booth. … In a development that will thrill my wife and children, Adam Lambert, who finished second on this season’s “American Idol,” will become the biggest male star to have appeared on the program thus far, while winner Kris Allen will end up as the answer to a trivia question. … If I had been on this American Airlines from London to Chicago and was privy to the flight information about the scheduled pilot, there would have been even more cause for police intervention.
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LIES, LIES, LIES

1. Should an expanded regular season push Super Bowl XLVII to two days before Fat Tuesday, I’ll return to my hotel room after the game, dutifully file my column and head immediately to the airport.


2. If wide receiver Plaxico Burress(notes) signs with the Bucs, he’ll request a special dispensation from Florida authorities to carry a handgun for protection, “in case Aqib Talib(notes) is unable to control his emotions.”


3. Thrilled by a recent photo shoot with Jets rookie quarterback Mark Sanchez(notes) that included several shirtless shots, GQ editors lined up Browns rookie tackle Andre Smith(notes) for a similar spread.

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OXYGEN-DEPRIVED THOUGHT FROM ABOVE

OK, so you’re Michael Vick(notes), and you’ve just been released from prison after more than a year-and-a-half behind bars – and your fiancé, Kijafa Frink, is there to greet you. You decide to avoid the friendly skies and make a 1,200-mile drive from Kansas to Virginia, where you’ll begin serving two months of home confinement, with security personnel and a videographer in tow. To which I say … a videographer? Really? Look, I realize that someone in Vick’s inner circle may have perceived some value in the recording of his long trip home, perhaps for a documentary or other future offering as he attempts to rehabilitate his public image (and replenish his bank account). Or perhaps it was Vick’s idea, and the outlaw quarterback now fashions himself an updated version of English Bob from the Clint Eastwood classic “Unforgiven”. But given that Vick, presuming he was not allowed conjugal visits from his a fiancée, had been denied a certain pleasurable activity for 19 months, another movie character comes to mind: Reggie Hammond (in one of Eddie Murphy’s greatest roles) from “48 Hours,” who vividly described his state of mind regarding women upon his release from behind bars. So trust me: If I’m Michael Vick and I just got out of prison, the only way I’d want a videographer hanging around with me and my fiancée is if I’m planning a career in adult cinema.

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LET’S DO SOME BEER FLOATS FOR …

My favorite youth soccer team, Supremacy, which played fast and furious footie in 100-degree heat last weekend to take home a first-place medal at the Concord Cup. Beer floats? That’s not a misprint; that’s what our little ladies’ triumphant effort inspired me and a bunch of similarly stoked soccer dads and moms to consume Sunday night, and we’re hoping to do it one more time in a few days. So congratulations to Alice, Allie, Annie, Aubrey, Bee, Cheyenne, Emily, Gretchen, Lea, Margaret, Mariah, Megan, Michaela, Natalie H., Natalie S. and Stephanie – and assistant coach Clarissa (who’s lucky she’s lactose intolerant) and head coach Mike (who probably wishes he were) – on a well-deserved victory and a terrific season. And for what its worth, with Dreyer’s vanilla ice-cream and Young’s double chocolate stout, the floats are stunningly tolerable. On a far less celebratory note, Don Julio shots are in order, as well as thoughts and prayers, for the Mickelson family and for my friend Ricky Sandoval, the Lions’ director of security, as they face their respective medical challenges.
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THIS WEEK’S PROOF THAT CAL IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE

Wait, The Gameface is smiling now. Congratulations to second-year coach Amanda Augustus and the Golden Bears’ women’s tennis team which, for the second consecutive season, upset top-seeded Northwestern en route to a second-place finish at the NCAA tournament. OK, perhaps I’m a little grumpy, as the latest edition of Pure Silver on Rivals.com’s BearTerritory.net attests. There are more titles to be won, however – Cal’s men’s and women’s crew teams each captured Pac-10 crowns and will compete for national championships later this month. And, best of all, it’s Tecate time for Cal softball loyalists: After sweeping through their regional in Tallahassee, Fla., – on the strength of junior Marissa Drewrey’s pitching and the speed and hitting of freshmen outfielders Frani Echavarria and Jamia and Elia Reid – Diane Ninemire’s unseeded Bears battle No. 1 Florida in Gainesville in a best-of-three Super Regional beginning Saturday at 5 p.m. PT and continuing Sunday. Cal was eliminated in two games by the Gators in last year’s Super Regional, but something tells me the Bears won’t be so easy to dispatch this time around. Cal is looking to return to the Women’s College World Series, once an annual pilgrimage, for the first time since 2005.


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YAHOO! SEARCH WORDS OF THE WEEK

Borat mankini apparel

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ROLLIN’ WITH THE ROYALS

In the wake of Reading’s elimination from the Football League Championship’s promotion playoff – and the resignation of manager Steve Coppell – the bad news keeps on coming. Veterans Graeme Murty, Leroy Lita, Michael Duberry and American goalkeeper Marcus Hahnemann were released upon the expiration of their contracts, and center back Andre Bikey had his four-game suspension for improper conduct (after picking up a red card in the first leg of the Royals’ semifinal at Burnley) extended an additional match. Hahnemann, 36, played in 252 matches for Reading over eight seasons and is a friend to The Gameface, which is currently frowning more than usual.
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LYRIC-ALTERED SONG DEDICATION OF THE WEEK

While hosting the Super Bowl champion Steelers at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. on Thursday, President Barack Obama refrained from taking any playful jabs at absent linebacker James Harrison(notes), who, in a tradition established by ex-Packers hypocrite Mark (Chewy) Chmura and continued by ex-Pittsburgh linebacker Joey (Peezy) Porter, used the occasion to send some smack-talk toward the commander-in-chief. If you think the Prez wasn’t peeved by Harrison’s snub, however, I’ve got a bullet-ridden lifeboat in the Indian Ocean to sell you. Here’s how I imagine the First Fan would’ve vented his feelings, Roger Daltrey-style, upon learning of Harrison’s boycott. Perhaps he even would’ve smashed a guitar, Pete Townshend-style, to punctuate his passion to the tune of The Who’s “Who Are You”:


Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?


I walked into the Oval Office
Rahm Emanuel on my trail
He said, “Brett Favre(notes) still can’t make up his mind
And Michael Vick just got out of jail”


I said, “What is up in Steeltown
With this dude James Harrison?”
My dog Bo had left a mess on the ground
And it got under my skin


Well, who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
I really wanna know (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Tell me, who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
‘Cause I really wanna know (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)


I took the dude’s phone number down
Dialed from my BlackBerry
I felt a little like a young Jim Brown
And an old Dirty Harry


I stretched back and I hiccupped
And looked back on my busy day
Eleven hours with Tim Geithner
God, I wish this mess would go away


Well, who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Ohhh who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Oh tell me who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Oh who the hell are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)


Who are you?
Ooh wa ooh wa ooh wa ooh wa ooh wa ooh …


Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?


I really wanna know (Who are you? Who who who who?)
I really wanna know (Who are you? Who who who who?)
Come on tell me who are you? (Who are you? Who who who who?)
Oh I really wanna know (Who are you? Who who who who?)


I know there’s an assault charge
And that thing with the BBs
I saw you in the Super Bowl
Punching that dude down on his knees


I spit out like a sewer hole
You doubting my street cred?
Dan Rooney is Irish ambassador now
But you’ll still get audited


Well, who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Tell me who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Oh I really wanna know (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Tell me, tell me who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Come on, come on, who? (Who are you who who who who?)
Ah, who the F are you? (Who are you who who who who?)
Who are you? (Who are you who who who who?)
Oh tell me who are you? (Who are you who who who who?)
I really wanna know
Oh I really wanna know
Come on tell me who are you you you?
Who are you?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-thegameface052209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Fan in Exile
05-23-2009, 07:36 AM
:deadhorse:

I'm pretty sure that Silver doesn't really know how to use the term neophyte. The term most precisely refers to someone who is just entering a whole new field not one who got a promotion in that field. You wouldn't call a new Bishop a neophyte even in his first year, because of all the time he had spent as a priest. I do get that there are differences between being a coordinator and a head coach but it's still the same profession/world/promotion ladder.

There is also no way that you can call Xanders his hand picked GM. He was here before Josh, and it's more of a last man standing situation.

G_Money
05-23-2009, 01:50 PM
Well, Josh got the Goodmans fired, so I can't really say he didn't pick Xanders. He was given Goodman and declined, making sure the guy that was left was Xanders, and now has defacto personnel say which he did not have when he was hired.

~G

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 02:01 PM
Well, Josh got the Goodmans fired, so I can't really say he didn't pick Xanders. He was given Goodman and declined, making sure the guy that was left was Xanders, and now has defacto personnel say which he did not have when he was hired.

~G


I believe the goodman issue boiled down to the younger of the duo clashing with someone in Dove valley to big of pants to quick and he thought his crap did not stink.. which did cause issues with daddy..


I'm pretty sure it was more a forced issue, than headhunting..

G_Money
05-23-2009, 02:17 PM
Josh comes in to work without personnel control, 3 weeks later the guys Bowlen knows are gone, Josh has personnel control, Xanders - who just got here himself - is doing contracts, and we're fielding trade calls on Cutler.

That doesn't strike you as headhunting? Josh wanted something, wasn't getting it, and made sure he got his way in the end.

It's not bad, as long as his way works, but it speaks to the NE way, as the article attests with other examples from Pioli and Mangini. They had plenty of "personality clashes" of their own. Working well with others once you get to be in charge of something seems to not be a strong point of that coaching tree.

So hopefully Josh is more like Belechick than the other disciples have been and can win big doing it his way.

I just find it funny that Shanahan the GM got Shanahan the coach fired, and we started off with the idea of separating out those two roles...and that idea didn't even last a month.

Consolidation of power and my-way-or-the-highway will hopefully work better in version 2.0 of the egomaniac-in-charge than it has for the last decade of version 1.0.

~G

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 02:28 PM
Josh comes in to work without personnel control, 3 weeks later the guys Bowlen knows are gone, Josh has personnel control, Xanders - who just got here himself - is doing contracts, and we're fielding trade calls on Cutler.

That doesn't strike you as headhunting? Josh wanted something, wasn't getting it, and made sure he got his way in the end.

It's not bad, as long as his way works, but it speaks to the NE way, as the article attests with other examples from Pioli and Mangini. They had plenty of "personality clashes" of their own. Working well with others once you get to be in charge of something seems to not be a strong point of that coaching tree.

So hopefully Josh is more like Belechick than the other disciples have been and can win big doing it his way.

I just find it funny that Shanahan the GM got Shanahan the coach fired, and we started off with the idea of separating out those two roles...and that idea didn't even last a month.

Consolidation of power and my-way-or-the-highway will hopefully work better in version 2.0 of the egomaniac-in-charge than it has for the last decade of version 1.0.

~G

hey I was the BIGGEST supporter of separate functions for those jobs..
Still am so until I see different I have to say that Xman is doing the bidding of HC Josh..

that is the GM's job run the team off the field.. making sure that the HC gets the toys he needs..

If Josh is indeed doing more than that shame on Pat for allowing it..

The info I saw said baby goodman was thinking he was going to run rough shod over others in Dove valley.. including Xman.. therefore was going to be let go, when daddy defended his child..

Now that could be wrong but so far I have very little issue with how things are being done.

Simple Jaded
05-23-2009, 03:04 PM
Josh comes in to work without personnel control, 3 weeks later the guys Bowlen knows are gone, Josh has personnel control, Xanders - who just got here himself - is doing contracts, and we're fielding trade calls on Cutler.

That doesn't strike you as headhunting? Josh wanted something, wasn't getting it, and made sure he got his way in the end.

It's not bad, as long as his way works, but it speaks to the NE way, as the article attests with other examples from Pioli and Mangini. They had plenty of "personality clashes" of their own. Working well with others once you get to be in charge of something seems to not be a strong point of that coaching tree.

So hopefully Josh is more like Belechick than the other disciples have been and can win big doing it his way.

I just find it funny that Shanahan the GM got Shanahan the coach fired, and we started off with the idea of separating out those two roles...and that idea didn't even last a month.

Consolidation of power and my-way-or-the-highway will hopefully work better in version 2.0 of the egomaniac-in-charge than it has for the last decade of version 1.0.

~G

Version 1.0 never ran off a Franchise QB.......

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 03:07 PM
Version 1.0 never ran off a Franchise QB.......

sure like jay huh?

maybe you should follow him to Da Bears.. cause he is not longer here..

Maybe you will be happy there..

OrangeHoof
05-23-2009, 03:12 PM
"Neophyte" may be too strong a word. How about "zygote"?

You know, being an arrogant ass can be the difference between getting two years for your rebuilding process to work and getting three. Maybe that's why Mangenius got the boot so quickly despite leading the Jets to the playoffs.

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 03:14 PM
"Neophyte" may be too strong a word. How about "zygote"?

You know, being an arrogant ass can be the difference between getting two years for your rebuilding process to work and getting three. Maybe that's why Mangenius got the boot so quickly despite leading the Jets to the playoffs.


the jets hung Farve around his neck and when he got hurt it was all down hill from there the HC got the blame for failure to get to the playoffs.

big city fans tend to be really hard on folks that do not live up to their expectations..

Simple Jaded
05-23-2009, 03:38 PM
sure like jay huh?

maybe you should follow him to Da Bears.. cause he is not longer here..

Maybe you will be happy there..

You might want to get used to it or find the ignore button, I'm not going anywhere.......

silkamilkamonico
05-23-2009, 04:08 PM
LMAO

"Who cares about winning when you have a franchise QB."

Slick
05-23-2009, 05:31 PM
sure like jay huh?

maybe you should follow him to Da Bears.. cause he is not longer here..

Maybe you will be happy there..

You stuck around when "Mikey" was here Jr. That's not fair.



2 things...If Cribbs was confident in his abilities, he shouldn't have signed a long term deal. that's his and his agents bad.

Can anyone here blame McDaniels for wanting things his way? Wouldn't you want the same thing? If I'm a coach I would want to succeed or fail with my guys and my decisions.

nevcraw
05-23-2009, 05:41 PM
OrangeHoof;663111 -You know, being an arrogant ass can be the difference between getting two years for your rebuilding process to work and getting three.

Exactly - MCD certainly has not done himself any favors in buying time to build.

nevcraw
05-23-2009, 05:46 PM
You stuck around when "Mikey" was here Jr.


unless you hate mikey & Jay and are willing to kiss the new coach's butt you are with the terrorists.. and need to banished to Chicago..

roomemp
05-23-2009, 06:21 PM
You might want to get used to it or find the ignore button, I'm not going anywhere.......

I am a troll on forums too. They are just all Chargers forums :lol:

Slick
05-23-2009, 06:34 PM
unless you hate mikey & Jay and are willing to kiss the new coach's butt you are with the terrorists.. and need to banished to Chicago..

Yeah, been seeing a lot of that lately. I just couldn't let Jr slide with that one. He knows it's not personal, and Link surely doesn't need anyone to stand up for him. Long story short, both guys know where I'm coming from.

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 07:09 PM
You stuck around when "Mikey" was here Jr. That's not fair.



2 things...If Cribbs was confident in his abilities, he shouldn't have signed a long term deal. that's his and his agents bad.

Can anyone here blame McDaniels for wanting things his way? Wouldn't you want the same thing? If I'm a coach I would want to succeed or fail with my guys and my decisions.

Hey I'm a Broncos fan first and a players fan second..

If I get to the place where the Broncos disgust me, like it seems has happened with a few of the fans that can't get over the changes, then I will move on to a team that I also like.. In the day of direct TV I can be a fan of any team I want to follow.. As can they, if the player is so important to them why not follow them..

I did not like mikey the GM or VP, until the last couple of years I like Mike the coach.. He was not there for lack of another term..

I totally agree with the feeling I want my own players who are loyal to me and how I want to run things.. Not go deep because he wants to boost his stats..

Simple Jaded
05-23-2009, 07:12 PM
LMAO

"Who cares about winning when you have a franchise QB."

Lmao.

"The Broncos don't need to draft a RB in the first round, it's a waste".......the difference is.......I'm not putting words in your mouth.......

Simple Jaded
05-23-2009, 07:13 PM
I am a troll on forums too. They are just all Chargers forums :lol:

Then you might have an idea of how little I care if people think I'm a troll.......

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 07:15 PM
unless you hate mikey & Jay and are willing to kiss the new coach's butt you are with the terrorists.. and need to banished to Chicago..


not at all I just can;t understand why some folks that like jay so much as to bad mouth EVER thing they do does not just move o n to Chicago bears..

Never have understood why some folks need to feel bad about themselves..

If the ya only concerned with the team and it is not jay or mikey related then bash away just leave the trading a franchise QB away comment out of the conversation.. as IIRC it was indeed jay that wanted out.. for what ever reason..

He did not seem to have any options after the owner wanted him traded..

Slick
05-23-2009, 07:15 PM
Hey I'm a Broncos fan first and a players fan second..

If I get to the place where the Broncos disgust me, like it seems has happened with a few of the fans that can't get over the changes, then I will move on to a team that I also like.. In the day of direct TV I can be a fan of any team I want to follow.. As can they, if the player is so important to them why not follow them..

I did not like mikey the GM or VP, until the last couple of years I like Mike the coach.. He was not there for lack of another term..

I totally agree with the feeling I want my own players who are loyal to me and how I want to run things.. Not go deep because he wants to boost his stats..

I know you are Jr, that's why I never questioned it when you made, and I'm being nice here, about 1,000 posts telling us how bad a GM and personell(sp) guy Shanahan was. (I agreed with most of those posts too) I just thought you telling someone else to be a Bears fan was slightly hypocritical. ;)

Simple Jaded
05-23-2009, 07:19 PM
I know you are Jr, that's why I never questioned it when you made, and I'm being nice here, about 1,000 posts telling us how bad a GM and personell(sp) guy Shanahan was. (I agreed with most of those posts too) I just thought you telling someone else to be a Bears fan was slightly hypocritical. ;)

Slightly my ass.......

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 07:22 PM
I know you are Jr, that's why I never questioned it when you made, and I'm being nice here, about 1,000 posts telling us how bad a GM and personell(sp) guy Shanahan was. (I agreed with most of those posts too) I just thought you telling someone else to be a Bears fan was slightly hypocritical. ;)

And I understand that.. IF they are or were here only because of mike or jay then it is time to move on..

If they are bronco fans then fine by me.. I just find it hard to take post after post about trading jay was the biggest mistake ever made in the world....

Shit happens and it is time to move on from that..

and allow the team to hit the field before breaking out the tar and feathers for most likely not reason at all..


IMHO I had perfectly valid reason for wanting mike gone.. so far trading jay does not qualify for the constant ragging of how bad Josh is..


BTW FWIW I can't place anyone on IGGY as much as I would love to.. as a mod I have to see each and every post made..

Slick
05-23-2009, 07:28 PM
Link's been around a while...I know his alias. He's one of the good guys even though some don't see it.

Simple Jaded
05-23-2009, 08:13 PM
And I understand that.. IF they are or were here only because of mike or jay then it is time to move on..

If they are bronco fans then fine by me.. I just find it hard to take post after post about trading jay was the biggest mistake ever made in the world....

Shit happens and it is time to move on from that..

and allow the team to hit the field before breaking out the tar and feathers for most likely not reason at all..


IMHO I had perfectly valid reason for wanting mike gone.. so far trading jay does not qualify for the constant ragging of how bad Josh is..


BTW FWIW I can't place anyone on IGGY as much as I would love to.. as a mod I have to see each and every post made..


Then I guess it looks like you're gonna have to learn to deal with it.

Btw, FWIW, trading Cutler is not the only mistake Doogie has made.......far from it.......

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 08:16 PM
Then I guess it looks like you're gonna have to learn to deal with it.

Btw, FWIW, trading Cutler is not the only mistake Doogie has made.......far from it.......



guess we will have to agree to disagree and see how it all works OUT..

later my friend..:salute:

OrangeHoof
05-23-2009, 08:35 PM
I realize the situations aren't identical but I view this offseason as if Bowlen had fired Dan Reeves back in the early 90s and then Wade Phillips came in and traded away John Elway. These Broncos are going to look strange to me but I'm still going to root for them. I lived through Red Miller and Dan Reeves parting ways so I can get through this. I'm just not optimistic for a turnaround anytime soon.

It will be fitting to watch them in the brown AFL Broncos throwbacks. Their winning percentage will be similar.

BroncoAV06
05-23-2009, 10:29 PM
not at all I just can;t understand why some folks that like jay so much as to bad mouth EVER thing they do does not just move o n to Chicago bears..

Never have understood why some folks need to feel bad about themselves..

If the ya only concerned with the team and it is not jay or mikey related then bash away just leave the trading a franchise QB away comment out of the conversation.. as IIRC it was indeed jay that wanted out.. for what ever reason..

He did not seem to have any options after the owner wanted him traded..

Nothing has happened yet in terms of games or a new season so it is hard to move on to something for most people at the moment. It was a bigsiuation and people will be3 bitter untill they can actually see the new team in action and get used to new things.

I understand the whole team before player point you make. Players come and go while a franchise is established in a city with a fan base. But still players make up said teams, without them we would not have this forum or Sundays full of football. I don't see how it is a bad thing for people to actually like a player and feel that the team lost a quality player.

God forbid people question things.

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 10:38 PM
Nothing has happened yet in terms of games or a new season so it is hard to move on to something for most people at the moment. It was a bigsiuation and people will be3 bitter untill they can actually see the new team in action and get used to new things.

I understand the whole team before player point you make. Players come and go while a franchise is established in a city with a fan base. But still players make up said teams, without them we would not have this forum or Sundays full of football. I don't see how it is a bad thing for people to actually like a player and feel that the team lost a quality player.

God forbid people question things.


I have no issue for someone liking jay or for that matter mike..

and I understand you point about it all being abstract with no games and such something that I have been saying for almost ever .. Give him a chance to work the magic on the sidelines and show us his Ideas and THEN judge him and his moves..

But many are will to just write it off as a stupid move and condemn the Broncos to a fate worse than last year..


While I do not expect miracles next year and most likely a losing season IF we are headed in the right direction then he deserves credit..

If it is nothing but a FUBAR then take all the shots Y'all want..


Remember I started the thread.. I do....

OrangeHoof
05-23-2009, 11:10 PM
Some people just cheer the laundry. They went the people in their laundry to beat the people in the other team's laundry.

NightTrainLayne
05-24-2009, 06:11 PM
Version 1.0 never ran off a Franchise QB.......

Version 1.0 didn't run off Bob Slowik either.

frauschieze
05-24-2009, 06:32 PM
I just find it hard to take post after post about trading jay was the biggest mistake ever made in the world....

:laugh:

Now you know how many of us feel about your Mikey posts. ;)

nevcraw
05-24-2009, 08:51 PM
Nothing has happened yet in terms of games or a new season so it is hard to move on to something for most people at the moment. It was a bigsiuation and people will be3 bitter untill they can actually see the new team in action and get used to new things.

I understand the whole team before player point you make. Players come and go while a franchise is established in a city with a fan base. But still players make up said teams, without them we would not have this forum or Sundays full of football. I don't see how it is a bad thing for people to actually like a player and feel that the team lost a quality player.

God forbid people question things.

Could not say it better myself!
Fans loyalty to the team is absolutely because of player contribution.. I've said it before but nobody is wearing a Bowlen jersey on Sundays. the players build the the organization by doing things that make people believe in something - Q the violin please..
No offense to the oldest generation of broncos fan's but I wonder if the Broncos would have survived and Denver would have become the sports city it is today without the Elway magic.

Lonestar
05-25-2009, 03:08 AM
Could not say it better myself!
Fans loyalty to the team is absolutely because of player contribution.. I've said it before but nobody is wearing a Bowlen jersey on Sundays. the players build the the organization by doing things that make people believe in something - Q the violin please..
No offense to the oldest generation of broncos fan's but I wonder if the Broncos would have survived and Denver would have become the sports city it is today without the Elway magic.


Hate to tell you this, but this franchise IIRC has the second most consecutive sell out string with only NYG having more..

The wait list for season tickets in 1979 was almost 30,000 people long. that is 30K waiting to get them IF someone was dumb enough not to renew.. a years before was in college..:laugh:

Elway had very little to do with creating DEN as a sports town.. It was fan loyalty since the put in the upper deck on old Bears stadium.. Most recently AKA Mile High..

OrangeHoof
05-25-2009, 02:09 PM
"Team? TEAM? We're not the team! (pointing to the owner and GM) THEY'RE the team. We're just the parts." - Nick Nolte from North Dalas Forty.

Lonestar
05-25-2009, 03:22 PM
"Team? TEAM? We're not the team! (pointing to the owner and GM) THEY'RE the team. We're just the parts." - Nick Nolte from North Dalas Forty.

Glad to know that left such lasting impression and that was the only thing you had to contribute.

Nickademus
05-25-2009, 04:44 PM
You stuck around when "Mikey" was here Jr. That's not fair.



2 things...If Cribbs was confident in his abilities, he shouldn't have signed a long term deal. that's his and his agents bad.

Can anyone here blame McDaniels for wanting things his way? Wouldn't you want the same thing? If I'm a coach I would want to succeed or fail with my guys and my decisions.

Dude so its cool for a team to cut someone who either makes to much money or hasnt lived up to the expectations but its not cool to pay a guy who out preforms his contract. I get that you are a FAN but open your eyes and realize that the teams are not the only ones in business here. So untill the NFL has guaranteed money this line of thinking is off.

Slick
05-25-2009, 05:42 PM
Dude so its cool for a team to cut someone who either makes to much money or hasnt lived up to the expectations but its not cool to pay a guy who out preforms his contract. I get that you are a FAN but open your eyes and realize that the teams are not the only ones in business here. So untill the NFL has guaranteed money this line of thinking is off.

If a team cuts a player that they feel is under performing, they still take a hit, and he still makes money...examples, Travis Henry, Javon Walker...even coaches...Shanahan for example. .

An agent is a lawyer and should be familiar with contracts. Frankly, I'm not sure why most of these guys even have agents. I wouldn't. When my contract is up, I'd pay a lawyer to look over the new one, explain it to me, then I'd decide whether or not I want to sign it. That's where my ties with any type of lawyer or agent would end. To me, it's that simple. I think Cribbs probably deserves more money. He's an outstanding football player, but he signed the contract. No one put a gun to his head. It's hard for me to feel sorry for him.

He could always hold out if he thinks he's that good.

dogfish
05-25-2009, 06:32 PM
sure like jay huh?

maybe you should follow him to Da Bears.. cause he is not longer here..

Maybe you will be happy there..



man, please!

there's an active jake plummer thread on the front page right now, and you're posting in it, yet you can tell people to forget about jay? i call bullshit! just because you're all too willing to sweep it under the rug doesn't mean anyone else needs to feel that way. . . .

Superchop 7
05-26-2009, 01:50 PM
Could not say it better myself!
Fans loyalty to the team is absolutely because of player contribution.. I've said it before but nobody is wearing a Bowlen jersey on Sundays. the players build the the organization by doing things that make people believe in something - Q the violin please..
No offense to the oldest generation of broncos fan's but I wonder if the Broncos would have survived and Denver would have become the sports city it is today without the Elway magic.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

We are the town we are because of Phipps (?)

The Broncos were headed out of town, it was.....ya know....a "business" decision.

Mr Phipps didn't want them to leave,

But, personal feelings cannot get in the way of business.

Unless, of course.....your Mr Phipps.

He went out on a limb for us....

We have been paying him back ever since.


It wasn't Elway, it was Phipps.

Lonestar
05-26-2009, 01:59 PM
man, please!

there's an active jake plummer thread on the front page right now, and you're posting in it, yet you can tell people to forget about jay? i call bullshit! just because you're all too willing to sweep it under the rug doesn't mean anyone else needs to feel that way. . . .


I guess you failed to see that I did not start the Jake thread but did this one..

But the constant jay is the franchise and anyone cutting/trading/thinking about diddling him is getting old..

If they like jay and can't grip that we have a new sheriff in town, that will make as many mistakes as mike did then maybe it is time for them to move on and root for jay in Chicago..

If they are jay fans and not Bronco fans then why are they here.. Why would they want to subject themselves to constant pain and suffering is beyond me..

frauschieze
05-26-2009, 02:47 PM
Respectfully, Jr, this is a message board. Just because you are done and over with Jaygate does not mean everyone else is too. Nor can you force them to be done with it and not talk about it anymore just because it's getting old. Telling them they should move on to a Bears forum is rubbing salt in the wounds and counter productive.

Lonestar
05-26-2009, 02:58 PM
Respectfully, Jr, this is a message board. Just because you are done and over with Jaygate does not mean everyone else is too. Nor can you force them to be done with it and not talk about it anymore just because it's getting old. Telling them they should move on to a Bears forum is rubbing salt in the wounds and counter productive.


I'm not forcing anyone to stop merely asking them to stay on topic.. since not every thread needs to always wind up as a mike and jay were the cats ass and josh is an ******* for getting rid of him or Pat is a drunk and should have never fired the mastermind..

once again I do not understand why they would want to subject themselves to the bronco IF they are only jay cutler fans.. which many are..

We have many fans that became fans because of John and when he moved on some stayed some left.. we had a lot of Ron Dayne fans that followed him to where ever he went to..

IMHO if they are Broncos fans then it is time to move on and stop the diatribe on something thing it no longer ongoing..

it accopmlishes nothing..IMHO..

G_Money
05-26-2009, 03:29 PM
McDaniels is still here. It's still ongoing.

"I'm pissed off about the personnel decision with Jay" works EXACTLY the same way that "I'm pissed off about Mikey's DAFT day decisions" worked, and you harped on those daily until Shanahan was canned. I mean, most of those guys weren't with us any more either, but it still bugged you.

If we had to hear about that for years - regardless of whether we agreed with you or not - then you harping about the Jay decision being water under the bridge already is disingenuous and hypocritical.

Plenty of people who disagreed with you still gave you your griping space.

Give a little in return.

~G

G_Money
05-26-2009, 03:32 PM
And as far as on-topic goes...if a thread about alienating employees is not a thread to discuss McDaniels already-shown tendencies not to get along with others, then what exactly is? :confused:

~G

NightTrainLayne
05-26-2009, 03:33 PM
Also, I think that the large percentage (probably 99%) that are griping here are Broncos fans first and fore-most. They aren't just Jay Cutler fans.