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rationalfan
05-21-2009, 01:45 PM
He's been savagely criticized on this message board. But read this excerpt from a Stefan Fatsis column on SI.com and you might have a new perception of Jake Plummer. Life's about more than football. And in that regard, no Bronco from my lifetime has been more adept at realizing that.

The full article is here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stefan_fatsis/05/20/retirement/index.html



The other words about retirement that stuck with me came from the Broncos' quarterback at the time, Jake Plummer. We talked a few days after he was benched during the 2006 season (despite a 7-4 record) for then rookie Jay Cutler. Plummer was 32 at the time, and while he hated some of the NFL's occupational annoyances -- the critical media, the claustrophobic work place, the emotionally over-invested fans -- he still loved playing football. But he was also completely rational: A decade into his career, he could imagine a life without it. "When you get into your 10th year," he told me, "some guys realize, 'Oh, God, I'm going to have to give this up soon,' and they can't live without it and they start going harder and harder."

Plummer talked about the many things he wanted to do but couldn't because of the demands of the NFL: spend more time with his dad, who was being treated for alcoholism, and his mom, whom he adores; play his favorite sport, handball; backpack, ski, see the world, work with kids, maybe coach some high-school football. He talked about how fortunate he was to have made so much money and stayed healthy. If he did retire, he said, he wouldn't make a big deal out of it. He disdained athletes who did, especially the ones who quickly returned. "Give me a break," he said. "Why'd you retire? You need that much attention? You need that ego boost?"

Plummer retired with a statement and a short news conference. He wound up losing $3.5 million -- bonus money he had to return to the team Denver traded him to, Tampa Bay -- and has lived up to everything he told me that day: He's traveled to Peru and Thailand. He's played in handball tournaments. He's hung out with his family in Idaho, where he lives. Last month, he signed on as the quarterbacks coach of the Sandpoint Bulldogs, the local high-school team.

Plummer finished his career 35,874 yards, 304 touchdowns, eight seasons and one championship short of Brett Favre. But when it comes to leaving a sport with dignity, respect and a sense of purpose, Favre is the one who has a long way to go to catch up.

NightTrainLayne
05-21-2009, 01:59 PM
I am reading the bookthat Fatsis wrote now, which I got a few weeks ago. Had to finish a couple others first, and I got through about to the 2/3 point last night.

Anyways, when I finish it I'll do an in-depth post. Some "know-it-alls" here on the boards will be surprised at some of the conclusions that Fatsis made about how Shanny ran the organization and some of the players and coaches roles. Of course, Fatsis' opinion will probably just be tossed out when it's incongruent with the pre-ordained thoughts, but I'll share it anyways.

Lonestar
05-21-2009, 02:04 PM
I am reading the bookthat Fatsis wrote now, which I got a few weeks ago. Had to finish a couple others first, and I got through about to the 2/3 point last night.

Anyways, when I finish it I'll do an in-depth post. Some "know-it-alls" here on the boards will be surprised at some of the conclusions that Fatsis made about how Shanny ran the organization and some of the players and coaches roles. Of course, Fatsis' opinion will probably just be tossed out when it's incongruent with the pre-ordained thoughts, but I'll share it anyways.

give us the cliff notes Please..

OB
05-21-2009, 02:07 PM
I knew tubby would come back :D

j/k

i always liked jake - im glad he's enjoying life after football, good for him

claymore
05-21-2009, 02:10 PM
Jake had anger issues. I hope he finds peace.

Tned
05-21-2009, 02:10 PM
It's funny, Fatsis's quotes and articles have been used to defend Jake and crucify him. I find it ironic.

GEM
05-21-2009, 02:10 PM
This message board was created at the close of the Jake/Jay war. I don't know about savagely..maybe over at Mania, the Mane and the Freak. :shrugs:

Can't hold a whole lot against the guy...he came here and he did his job, in a lot of cases he did it better than the guy that came after him...at least in the W/L column.

Hope he enjoys the Olympics, his new child and his marriage.

NightTrainLayne
05-21-2009, 02:13 PM
give us the cliff notes Please..

Will do. Some speculation is pretty well founded looks like, but some of our speculation is way off base it would appear.

Unfortunately, to some degree Fatsis was wanting to write a book about the NFL experience and the Broncos gave him the chance to be part of the team. As opposed to writing a book about the Denver Broncos. So, as a Denver fan I'm interested, but he leaves me wanting more because he was approaching it in a more NFL-genereal sense vs. a specific book about the Denver Broncos. . . .but still a ton of insight.

Northman
05-21-2009, 02:36 PM
Blah blah blah. Wah wah wah.


Sorry. Couldnt resist.

First off, Jake Plummer did do to the best of his abilities of what HE wanted to do with the Denver Broncos. So kudos for the guy going out there and doing what he can. Kudos to the guy who decided to retire rather than fight for a starting job in Tampa. It was too much work for him to do that and he decided he rather do other things rather than focus on football any longer and put the extra effort in. So in a sense he did Denver and Tampa a favor by retiring. Kudos to the guy who rebelled against the NFL and represented his friend who died in Iraq. His loyalty to his friends cant be argued and i give him mad props for that.

However. His work ethic was lazy. He didnt want to go the extra mile to do what it took to be better at his position. This is why he will always be considered a mediocre QB when people look back at his NFL career. To do the extra work necessary just wasnt fun to him and to some degree thats understandable. Playing in the NFL is a job and if you want to win and succeed you have to do everything in your power to make that happen and in most cases means putting in more work than you want too or feel like.

And although he showed a lot of fire for the game he also showed that he would quit on his team in a split second when things didnt go his way. And evidently his actions were reciprocated by Jay Cutler with the whole "me first" mentality. So while there were some good things that Jake Plummer did for Denver there was a lot that he didnt do which will still leave me sour on the guy when all is said and done.

rationalfan
05-21-2009, 02:37 PM
It's funny, Fatsis's quotes and articles have been used to defend Jake and crucify him. I find it ironic.

that's not irony. it's objectivity.

NightTrainLayne
05-21-2009, 02:42 PM
Blah blah blah. Wah wah wah.


Sorry. Couldnt resist.

First off, Jake Plummer did do to the best of his abilities of what HE wanted to do with the Denver Broncos. So kudos for the guy going out there and doing what he can. Kudos to the guy who decided to retire rather than fight for a starting job in Tampa. It was too much work for him to do that and he decided he rather do other things rather than focus on football any longer and put the extra effort in. So in a sense he did Denver and Tampa a favor by retiring. Kudos to the guy who rebelled against the NFL and represented his friend who died in Iraq. His loyalty to his friends cant be argued and i give him mad props for that.

However. His work ethic was lazy. He didnt want to go the extra mile to do what it took to be better at his position. This is why he will always be considered a mediocre QB when people look back at his NFL career. To do the extra work necessary just wasnt fun to him and to some degree thats understandable. Playing in the NFL is a job and if you want to win and succeed you have to do everything in your power to make that happen and in most cases means putting in more work than you want too or feel like.

And although he showed a lot of fire for the game he also showed that he would quit on his team in a split second when things didnt go his way. And evidently his actions were reciprocated by Jay Cutler with the whole "me first" mentality. So while there were some good things that Jake Plummer did for Denver there was a lot that he didnt do which will still leave me sour on the guy when all is said and done.

But this is where Favre is going about it all wrong. Favre is taking off 3 months every year, when everyone else on the team is working out and going to OTA's etc, and Favre is "retiring". Then. .. when all the not-so-fun work of the off-season is out of the way he's cherry-picking where he wants to play at and coming in for the games.

That puts him on a different plane than the rest of the team, and if you read the whole article linked above, this is exaclty what Adam Meadows was talking about when he retired due to his body not being able to keep up with the grind.

Fatsis wasn't talking about how great of a job Plummer did as a player. He's talking about when you're ready to leave the game to do so with grace, and with an understanding of yourself and your own abilities.

Northman
05-21-2009, 02:48 PM
But this is where Favre is going about it all wrong. Favre is taking off 3 months every year, when everyone else on the team is working out and going to OTA's etc, and Favre is "retiring". Then. .. when all the not-so-fun work of the off-season is out of the way he's cherry-picking where he wants to play at and coming in for the games.

That puts him on a different plane than the rest of the team, and if you read the whole article linked above, this is exaclty what Adam Meadows was talking about when he retired due to his body not being able to keep up with the grind.

Fatsis wasn't talking about how great of a job Plummer did as a player. He's talking about when you're ready to leave the game to do so with grace, and with an understanding of yourself and your own abilities.


Im not sure how Favre came into this but i dont think Favre has done himself any favors the last 5 years. As far as grace, i cant say that Jake really did it with grace. For the most part the benching, the trade, and the fact that he would have to compete for a starting job in Tampa is what eventually drove him to make the call on his career. I mean, im glad Jake retired with his health and everything intact. Great for him. But the OP is trying to somehow say that people have ripped on Jake for retiring. I could care less that he retired and i havent seen anyone rip on him for that. But i do find it funny that people believe it was just out of the blue when in reality it was a series of circumstances that he just didnt want to deal with.

Lonestar
05-21-2009, 02:53 PM
Blah blah blah. Wah wah wah.


Sorry. Couldnt resist.

First off, Jake Plummer did do to the best of his abilities of what HE wanted to do with the Denver Broncos. So kudos for the guy going out there and doing what he can. Kudos to the guy who decided to retire rather than fight for a starting job in Tampa. It was too much work for him to do that and he decided he rather do other things rather than focus on football any longer and put the extra effort in. So in a sense he did Denver and Tampa a favor by retiring. Kudos to the guy who rebelled against the NFL and represented his friend who died in Iraq. His loyalty to his friends cant be argued and i give him mad props for that.

However. His work ethic was lazy. He didnt want to go the extra mile to do what it took to be better at his position. This is why he will always be considered a mediocre QB when people look back at his NFL career. To do the extra work necessary just wasnt fun to him and to some degree thats understandable. Playing in the NFL is a job and if you want to win and succeed you have to do everything in your power to make that happen and in most cases means putting in more work than you want too or feel like.

And although he showed a lot of fire for the game he also showed that he would quit on his team in a split second when things didnt go his way. And evidently his actions were reciprocated by Jay Cutler with the whole "me first" mentality. So while there were some good things that Jake Plummer did for Denver there was a lot that he didnt do which will still leave me sour on the guy when all is said and done.


I will take exception to that comment.. while it is partly true for much of his career it was because he saw it as a GAME..

After the 04 season IIRC he sat down with Gary and went over all of his plays while a BRONCO and they studied all off season. going the extra mile..

He turned in the best season of his career after that....

and then got kicked in the groin by mike.


I applaud him for going out on his own terms and hope he is happy with his new life as it sounds like he is..

I suspect may folks do not like his irreverence to the GAME he wanted to play....


I also suspect may folks are jealous because he retired to have more fun in his life..

Northman
05-21-2009, 03:05 PM
I will take exception to that comment.. while it is partly true for much of his career it was because he saw it as a GAME..

After the 04 season IIRC he sat down with Gary and went over all of his plays while a BRONCO and they studied all off season. going the extra mile..

He turned in the best season of his career after that....

Yea, he had a great 05' season but then when the team needed him to play his best he tanked.


and then got kicked in the groin by mike.

Totally disagree there. Mike saw his limitations as a player and his work eithic and decided to upgrade. We can argue all day long of whether or not we should have gone defender vs Qb in the following draft but Mikey felt the position itself needed a upgrade which it got.



I applaud him for going out on his own terms and hope he is happy with his new life as it sounds like he is..

I suspect may folks do not like his irreverence to the GAME he wanted to play....


I also suspect may folks are jealous because he retired to have more fun in his life..


I dont mind that he wanted to have fun playing the game. Elway loved playing the game but he also felt it necessary to do the extra things necessary to succeed and achieve what he wanted in the end. And for Elway it took more than one solid year to do that. But then again it would of required far more work for Jake than it ever did for John because of the physical talent separation. And no, im not jealous of him having fun. But im not snowballed into thinking he just up and decided to retire on a whim either. As i stated before, once he realized that he would (again) have to do some work he decided it wasnt for him. And quite frankly, no one or team wants a player who only half asses it when they are trying to achieve something more. But im glad he's happy with handball and his lady.

Lonestar
05-21-2009, 04:07 PM
Yea, he had a great 05' season but then when the team needed him to play his best he tanked.



Totally disagree there. Mike saw his limitations as a player and his work eithic and decided to upgrade. We can argue all day long of whether or not we should have gone defender vs Qb in the following draft but Mikey felt the position itself needed a upgrade which it got.





I dont mind that he wanted to have fun playing the game. Elway loved playing the game but he also felt it necessary to do the extra things necessary to succeed and achieve what he wanted in the end. And for Elway it took more than one solid year to do that. But then again it would of required far more work for Jake than it ever did for John because of the physical talent separation. And no, im not jealous of him having fun. But im not snowballed into thinking he just up and decided to retire on a whim either. As i stated before, once he realized that he would (again) have to do some work he decided it wasnt for him. And quite frankly, no one or team wants a player who only half asses it when they are trying to achieve something more. But im glad he's happy with handball and his lady.


In no Way did he tank the PIT game the entire team was found lacking and he was one of the only ones trying to make something out of nothing..

When the LBs and DEs are in the back field before you are it is hard to make plays..

Did he throw some picks? sure he did trying to make plays.. did the defense allow Ben a rookie to set play off records of the most 3rd and long conversions.. yep that happened also..

Jake did not tank the game any more than mike, coyer and the rest of the team did.. IIRC that was the second home playoff game that mikey lost.. they got their asses handed to them by a team that was motivated to win..

Did mike kick him in the balls? well many of us feel he did..

I realize that many of the jay fans did not see it that way and Jake may not have been the QB to lead us all the way but with the supporting cast he had at the time one can only wonder what it would have been like this past year..

I suspect that you and I will not ever agree in Jake so lets leave it as agreeing to disagree..

T.K.O.
05-21-2009, 04:33 PM
jake is a cool dude and even shaved the other day when he was interviewed on our local station about coaching at sandpoint high....lol
he has been very active in the sandpoint area,helping at the senior center and even delivering meals to elderly and needy people.
i like the fact that he never really sought star status and didnt need his ego stroked like some qb's:D

Ravage!!!
05-21-2009, 05:01 PM
I will take exception to that comment.. while it is partly true for much of his career it was because he saw it as a GAME..

Exactly. But he wasn't being PAYED to take it as a GAME. You want to defend him for this, when you (of all people) point out that some of the players are getting paid too much money.

The Team, the organization wasn't PAYING him to take it as a GAME. They were paying him to take it as a JOB.. a career, and take it seriously. You can't defend him for taking it as a GAME, then turn around and trash some guy that gets paid too much money for the kind of performance they are putting out.

Also.. how was he 'kicked in the groin' by Mike? Because Mike drafted a player at his position? Then that would mean every player, every year, has that same perspective. You can't blame Mike for drafting a better player, a better athlete, at the single most important position on the field.

T.K.O.
05-21-2009, 05:17 PM
i'm pretty sure the "kick in the groin" was right about when shanny benched him for a rookie when we had a winning record the year after jake took us to the afccg.....yeah that was kinda a "low blow" :elefant:

Ravage!!!
05-21-2009, 05:19 PM
i'm pretty sure the "kick in the groin" was right about when shanny benched him for a rookie when we had a winning record the year after jake took us to the afccg.....yeah that was kinda a "low blow" :elefant:

Not if you watched Jake play that year it wasn't. Jake crumbled after the drafting of Cutler.

Lonestar
05-21-2009, 05:23 PM
Exactly. But he wasn't being PAYED to take it as a GAME. You want to defend him for this, when you (of all people) point out that some of the players are getting paid too much money.

The Team, the organization wasn't PAYING him to take it as a GAME. They were paying him to take it as a JOB.. a career, and take it seriously. You can't defend him for taking it as a GAME, then turn around and trash some guy that gets paid too much money for the kind of performance they are putting out.

Also.. how was he 'kicked in the groin' by Mike? Because Mike drafted a player at his position? Then that would mean every player, every year, has that same perspective. You can't blame Mike for drafting a better player, a better athlete, at the single most important position on the field.


I guess when they get a FA and they know his rep, they should understand what they are buying what are the old motto's "let the buyer beware", or "you pay for what you get"..

yes he was being paid to be a pro.. just because he did not adhere to mikey regime do not make him out to be the bad guy.. when he did well the rest was history..

He gave his all on game day.. take it or leave it.. He put his all into the off season prior to the AFCCG and because the TEAM was found lacking he got his replacement drafted without any notice, warning or thanks.. not so much as a **** you very much.. yes I know it is a business but this franchise used to have a little class also..

Now perhaps it doe not rise to a groin kick for you I suspect he felt that way.. especially after investing his prior off season to studying each and every down he played as a Bronc with his OC Gary.. and BTW leading the team to the AFCCG with his best year ever..

NAH that is not a groin kick at all.. LAMO

Lonestar
05-21-2009, 05:27 PM
i'm pretty sure the "kick in the groin" was right about when shanny benched him for a rookie when we had a winning record the year after jake took us to the afccg.....yeah that was kinda a "low blow" :elefant:

no it was when out of the blue after having a stellar year leading the team to THE championship game having his replacement drafted using a couple of draft choice to do so.. choices they could have used to pick up some solid talent on DEFENSE where it was needed..

You have your best year as a QB and you get screwed, it is good way of incentivizing the other employees..

enough said on the subject I'll let the haters hate on him as they usually have nothing good to say about him or the team..

end of my contribution in this thread..

Ravage!!!
05-21-2009, 05:28 PM
ITs not. That would mean EACH player that played on that AFCCG felt they were kicked in the groin for having a player at THEIR position drafted. Players are drafted, thats part of it.

As far as him studying each and every pass... that was necessary because he was known NOT to study, and after watching Jaws break down that AFCCG against Pitt, you can see where the lack of study on Jake's end really showed up. It wasn't just the TEAM that lacked that day, it was Jake as well. He made some horrendous reads that cost us, and it shows up big time on game-tape. Its not like Mike didn't know Jake's lack of study time.

Its not a kick to have someone drafted at your position. Thats part of the game. Thats part of the business. Considering the Cardinals let him go, you would think he was more mature as to how things work in the NFL by that time.

Patting him on the back because he did what was EXPECTED of him... isn't much of a defense in regards to this discussion.

So no.... not a kick in the groin at all. LMAO

Slick
05-21-2009, 05:43 PM
Let it go people. Seriously.

T.K.O.
05-21-2009, 07:55 PM
Let it go people. Seriously.

i know jake did so im good with it......just as i can let jay go because he didnt want to be a bronco anymore either.
cya.....

Shazam!
05-21-2009, 09:26 PM
I have said this all before but I'll reiterate it again.

I wasn't happy when Denver acquired Jake. I wasn't happy with his mistake-prone play and some of his antics and issues. However, you don't go replacing your QB coming off a 13-3 Season where you reached the AFCCG. Shanny totally betrayed him, sabotaged his career and confidence, and ran him under the bus. I was happy they got Cutler but hindsight is 20/20. Looking back on how it went down it was all a huge mistake. If Jake was kept the last 3 seasons, the Broncos would've been no better or no worse. With the overall improved offense Jake may have performed better too, even marginally.

I don't want this to be a Jay/Jake thing, that isn't even relevant. What is though, is that it all turned out to be a disaster. The last two starting QBs in Denver over the last 5 season aren't on the team anymore, and at QB they are starting from scratch... again. A lack of continuity at that position is terrible. I hope McD brings some, and maybe Brandstater, with all his raw physical talents, could be starter-worthy one day.

broncohead
05-21-2009, 10:37 PM
In no Way did he tank the PIT game the entire team was found lacking and he was one of the only ones trying to make something out of nothing..

When the LBs and DEs are in the back field before you are it is hard to make plays..

Did he throw some picks? sure he did trying to make plays.. did the defense allow Ben a rookie to set play off records of the most 3rd and long conversions.. yep that happened also..

Jake did not tank the game any more than mike, coyer and the rest of the team did.. IIRC that was the second home playoff game that mikey lost.. they got their asses handed to them by a team that was motivated to win..

Did mike kick him in the balls? well many of us feel he did..

I realize that many of the jay fans did not see it that way and Jake may not have been the QB to lead us all the way but with the supporting cast he had at the time one can only wonder what it would have been like this past year..

I suspect that you and I will not ever agree in Jake so lets leave it as agreeing to disagree..

I think it's funny that you say this after the offseason we had with the whole Cutler and McD drama. It turns into a team game when it benifits the argument. Like people have said it's a buisness and I didn't think it was a good move either. I actually liked Jake and thought he did well for the Broncos. The last year seemed to fit Jay's strengths and not Jake's. I think the replacement halfway through the season was a good move though. We scored more points but thats when the D started going down hill.

pnbronco
05-21-2009, 11:14 PM
I'm so glad Jake is getting to the things he has wanted to. He seems really happy and would wish this for all our veterans.

Lonestar
05-21-2009, 11:18 PM
I think it's funny that you say this after the offseason we had with the whole Cutler and McD drama. It turns into a team game when it benifits the argument. Like people have said it's a buisness and I didn't think it was a good move either. I actually liked Jake and thought he did well for the Broncos. The last year seemed to fit Jay's strengths and not Jake's. I think the replacement halfway through the season was a good move though. We scored more points but thats when the D started going down hill.

It is always about being a team sport and always has been..

I did not think jay was all the much a team player it was always about him IMHO..

I agree the scheme was changed over the off season to fit the drop back passer that jay was.. It robbed Jake of his best weapon being a snake on the move..

Just like when Gary left and hummer came in, when bates left jay saw that handwriting on the wall time to move on.

the defense started to go into the toilet LONG before Jake left.. ..

Last year DJ made the comment after mike left and after meeting with the new guy.. that the defense last year felt like second class citizens..

It was apparent to all that mike thought he could win on offense alone.. at least all that cared to think about it.. they pumped up the O to the detriment of the defense and it showed..

broncohead
05-21-2009, 11:39 PM
It is always about being a team sport and always has been..

I did not think jay was all the much a team player it was always about him IMHO..

I agree the scheme was changed over the off season to fit the drop back passer that jay was.. It robbed Jake of his best weapon being a snake on the move..

Just like when Gary left and hummer came in, when bates left jay saw that handwriting on the wall time to move on.

the defense started to go into the toilet LONG before Jake left.. ..

Last year DJ made the comment after mike left and after meeting with the new guy.. that the defense last year felt like second class citizens..

It was apparent to all that mike thought he could win on offense alone.. at least all that cared to think about it.. they pumped up the O to the detriment of the defense and it showed..

From what I remember the defense was the only thing keeping us from having a losing record Jake's last year. I don't think it was the pumping up of the offense as much as it was the lack of scouting on the defensive side on the ball. Moss, Crowder, Fox, Paymah, Darrent, Thomas, Elvis, Powell are a few from resent memory. We did draft offense with the higher picks and the defense with the later but the number of players where about even.

Lonestar
05-21-2009, 11:50 PM
From what I remember the defense was the only thing keeping us from having a losing record Jake's last year. I don't think it was the pumping up of the offense as much as it was the lack of scouting on the defensive side on the ball. Moss, Crowder, Fox, Paymah, Darrent, Thomas, Elvis, Powell are a few from resent memory. We did draft offense with the higher picks and the defense with the later but the number of players where about even.


go back and look at the defensive side of the draft sheet

how many are still on the team or likely to get a second contract..

When you look at what he has done on O vs D over the years the D last year had a right to think that way..

IMHO you do not draft a QB #1 and use two choices to do so when your DL has sucked for decades.. especially when the QB under contract just had his best EVER season.. and has 4-5 more years on it..

not when there was two highly rated DT on the board..

Haloti Ngata DT
Brodrick Bunkley DT this guy was my choice from the minute I saw him at the combine and absolute animal

Guess you fill a real need instead of wishful thinking.. at least I do..

But it is all history now Jake is retired, jay is in CHI and mike is building his house while we almost totally rebuild this team..:salute:

Nature Boy
05-22-2009, 12:02 AM
Bring back Jake! Bring back Jake!

.

Northman
05-22-2009, 07:00 AM
If Jake was kept the last 3 seasons, the Broncos would've been no better or no worse. With the overall improved offense Jake may have performed better too, even marginally.

.

Not a chance in hell.

Northman
05-22-2009, 07:04 AM
In no Way did he tank the PIT game the entire team was found lacking and he was one of the only ones trying to make something out of nothing..

When the LBs and DEs are in the back field before you are it is hard to make plays..

Did he throw some picks? sure he did trying to make plays.. did the defense allow Ben a rookie to set play off records of the most 3rd and long conversions.. yep that happened also..

Jake did not tank the game any more than mike, coyer and the rest of the team did.. IIRC that was the second home playoff game that mikey lost.. they got their asses handed to them by a team that was motivated to win..

Did mike kick him in the balls? well many of us feel he did..

I realize that many of the jay fans did not see it that way and Jake may not have been the QB to lead us all the way but with the supporting cast he had at the time one can only wonder what it would have been like this past year..

I suspect that you and I will not ever agree in Jake so lets leave it as agreeing to disagree..

He tanked the Pitt game. End of story. Did he have help? Yep. But he did tank and very badly. He followed that excellent performance with another doozy against the Rams the following year. But the Rams won the SB that year.....wait.

LRtagger
05-22-2009, 09:51 AM
Whats funny is the same people that think Jake got what he deserved or wasn't done wrong by Shanny are the same people that think Jay got screwed ahhahaha

I mean, Mike traded up to draft Jay after Jake took us to a 13-3 season, #2 playoff seed and to the AFCC game. He felt betrayed that Mike's biggest offseason priority was replacing him.


Jay takes us to an 8-8 season, losing a 3 game division lead with 3 games to go, missing the playoffs for the 3rd straight year...our new coach ENTERTAINS the idea of replacing Jay and Jay cries and DEMANDS A TRADE....yet Jay is the one who should feel rightfully betrayed and Jake deserved what he got.


hahahaha classic.

broncohead
05-22-2009, 10:01 AM
Whats funny is the same people that think Jake got what he deserved or wasn't done wrong by Shanny are the same people that think Jay got screwed ahhahaha

I mean, Mike traded up to draft Jay after Jake took us to a 13-3 season, #2 playoff seed and to the AFCC game. He felt betrayed that Mike's biggest offseason priority was replacing him.


Jay takes us to an 8-8 season, losing a 3 game division lead with 3 games to go, missing the playoffs for the 3rd straight year...our new coach ENTERTAINS the idea of replacing Jay and Jay cries and DEMANDS A TRADE....yet Jay is the one who should feel rightfully betrayed and Jake deserved what he got.


hahahaha classic.

I think both got screwed. Jake with the change of offense and drafting of Cutler and Cutler with a new head coach who BOTH wouldn't let their egos go and try and solve it like pros.

LRtagger
05-22-2009, 10:08 AM
I think both got screwed. Jake with the change of offense and drafting of Cutler and Cutler with a new head coach who BOTH wouldn't let their egos go and try and solve it like pros.

I agree, I think both were treated unfairly...but why people think one got screwed and the other didn't is beyond me.

Just think what kind of hell McDaniels would be getting if he tried to replace Jay after a 13-3 season and AFCC game appearance. We would never hear the end of it.

Yet Jake should have stepped up to the challenge and worked hard to beat out Jay?? Give me a break.

pnbronco
05-22-2009, 10:39 AM
LR I totally agree that both got screwed. My biggest issue was that no one told Jake he was benched, as he was walking out for the Dallas game a reporter asked him how he felt about it. I thought Jake was a hard workers with different things I saw and heard other players say about him, but at this point it really doesn't matter, he's moved on. So after 3 years I have too. I wish both him and Jay much happiness and a good life.

MasterShake
05-22-2009, 10:43 AM
No one needs to defend Jake, and Jake is cool with that which is why I liked him and he is my second favorite Broncos QB. He realized he was lucky to get payed to play a GAME, and I agree that many players like Favre need their ego stroked. I'd love to be in his shoes as far as retiring before I'm 35! :D

LRtagger
05-22-2009, 10:46 AM
LR I totally agree that both got screwed. My biggest issue was that no one told Jake he was benched, as he was walking out for the Dallas game a reporter asked him how he felt about it. I thought Jake was a hard workers with different things I saw and heard other players say about him, but at this point it really doesn't matter, he's moved on. So after 3 years I have too. I wish both him and Jay much happiness and a good life.

Perhaps...but Jay got so up-in-arms over what was essentially a rumor. How do you think Jay would have reacted if he were still on the team and McD traded up to grab Sanchez in this draft?

My guess is he would not have handled it very well. I'm not sure about the double standard that some hold just because they liked Jay's talent more than Jake's.

I personally think they both bitched out on the team, but that's just me. I do feel that Jake got the shorter end of the stick than Jay did. But I'm glad neither one of them are with us anymore. Time to move on and start winning some playoff games.

MasterShake
05-22-2009, 10:56 AM
Perhaps...but Jay got so up-in-arms over what was essentially a rumor. How do you think Jay would have reacted if he were still on the team and McD traded up to grab Sanchez in this draft?

My guess is he would not have handled it very well. I'm not sure about the double standard that some hold just because they liked Jay's talent more than Jake's.

I personally think they both bitched out on the team, but that's just me. I do feel that Jake got the shorter end of the stick than Jay did. But I'm glad neither one of them are with us anymore. Time to move on and start winning some playoff games.

Play...offs? What are these playoffs you speak of? I remember winning them many moons ago, but alas I forget what they are!
:lol:

elsid13
05-22-2009, 11:49 AM
i'm pretty sure the "kick in the groin" was right about when shanny benched him for a rookie when we had a winning record the year after jake took us to the afccg.....yeah that was kinda a "low blow" :elefant:

Did you forget Thanksgiving day in KC?? That is one of the was the worse QB performance I have ever seen. That team was winning because the defense was in sync the first half the of the season and was fresh, not because of Plummer

pnbronco
05-22-2009, 12:00 PM
Did you forget Thanksgiving day in KC?? That is one of the was the worse QB performance I have ever seen. That team was winning because the defense was in sync the first half the of the season and was fresh, not because of Plummer

El that was the day Jake got told he was being benched as he was walking out on the field by the reporter.

elsid13
05-22-2009, 12:09 PM
El that was the day Jake got told he was being benched as he was walking out on the field by the reporter.

Yeah so? That was all speculation because of the previous 6 weeks of crappy play. He shit the bed that night and deserved to lose his job after that performance. If he didn't want to get bench, show up and compete

broncohead
05-22-2009, 12:24 PM
Yeah so? That was all speculation because of the previous 6 weeks of crappy play. He shit the bed that night and deserved to lose his job after that performance. If he didn't want to get bench, show up and compete

I partially agree with this. The change of offense didn't fit Jake's strengths. It was better suited for Cutler and I believe the change was for the future of Cutler not the present for Jake.

T.K.O.
05-22-2009, 12:46 PM
Did you forget Thanksgiving day in KC?? That is one of the was the worse QB performance I have ever seen. That team was winning because the defense was in sync the first half the of the season and was fresh, not because of Plummer

plummer was 40-18 as a starter for denver....yeah he sucked...lol

elsid13
05-22-2009, 01:02 PM
I partially agree with this. The change of offense didn't fit Jake's strengths. It was better suited for Cutler and I believe the change was for the future of Cutler not the present for Jake.

Offense changed because Defense Coordinators in the league had enough film on Plummer in that offense to take away his strengths. Once that happen you saw crappy performance. Plummer was very limited QB in what he could do.

MasterShake
05-22-2009, 01:41 PM
Offense changed because Defense Coordinators in the league had enough film on Plummer in that offense to take away his strengths. Once that happen you saw crappy performance. Plummer was very limited QB in what he could do.

And he's gone. Say, whats that on the horizon? Could it be...NOT THE PAST??:lol:

Just kidding. Its just as soon as I saw this thread go up I could sense the bomb waiting to go off!

powderaddict
05-22-2009, 04:02 PM
Did anyone defending Jake's play in 2006 actually watch any of those games?

Jake was AWEFUL. I like the guy, his time in Denver was overall very successful. But, he did not rise to the challenge Cutler presented, he severly regressed in 2006. His play in 2006 as the QB was just horrible. Every week I would think "He'll break out of this funk". He never did. That was just a terrible performance all around, all year.

And he did stink it up against the Steelers in the AFCCG. So did the rest of the team, coaching staff, everyone.

Lonestar
05-22-2009, 04:26 PM
Did anyone defending Jake's play in 2006 actually watch any of those games?

Jake was AWEFUL. I like the guy, his time in Denver was overall very successful. But, he did not rise to the challenge Cutler presented, he severly regressed in 2006. His play in 2006 as the QB was just horrible. Every week I would think "He'll break out of this funk". He never did. That was just a terrible performance all around, all year.

And he did stink it up against the Steelers in the AFCCG. So did the rest of the team, coaching staff, everyone.


yes Jake was awfully but 7-4 IIRC when relieved ..

He was set up to fail in the system it was designed for jay with very little consideration for Jake....

Mike learned with the greasy FUBAR not to start a QB until the veterans around him saw it was necessary.. Yet they were 7-4 and mike was desperate to get his new toy on the field.. for much of the season Marshall and Scheffler were relegated to working out with jay or hurt.. in Scheffler case he admitted after the season he did not "get' the playbook until just before jay was brought in..

So Jake stinking it up in the AFCCG was bad from what I saw for the most part he was still playing after a lot of the team gave up.. so were mistakes made absolutely how can you blame the loss on one person..

Why should he get fired because the team, coaches and game plan STUNK..

Because mike got a new toy.. plain and simple..

powderaddict
05-22-2009, 04:54 PM
yes Jake was awfully but 7-4 IIRC when relieved ..

He was set up to fail in the system it was designed for jay with very little consideration for Jake....

Mike learned with the greasy FUBAR not to start a QB until the veterans around him saw it was necessary.. Yet they were 7-4 and mike was desperate to get his new toy on the field.. for much of the season Marshall and Scheffler were relegated to working out with jay or hurt.. in Scheffler case he admitted after the season he did not "get' the playbook until just before jay was brought in..

So Jake stinking it up in the AFCCG was bad from what I saw for the most part he was still playing after a lot of the team gave up.. so were mistakes made absolutely how can you blame the loss on one person..

Why should he get fired because the team, coaches and game plan STUNK..

Because mike got a new toy.. plain and simple..


I specifically stated the whole team stunk against Pittsburgh. I do not lay any more blame on Jake than I do anyone else. But, he was aweful.

And sorry, but I really don't buy the "system" was bad for Jake. I watched those games - Jake was aweful, plain and simple. And I'm not sure how having the rookie WR and the rookie TE play on the practice squad (right were I'd expect most rookies to be practicing) with Cutler effected Jake's performance. Jake's decision making, accuracy, and game management skills were just...off.

I really liked him, and defended him quite vigorously after the AFCCG game, because he was not the only reason the Broncos got whooped on, but when it came time for Jay to start I was fine with that because Jake was just not getting the job done. Interestingly, when Jay started the Bronco's scoring average increased by a TOUCHDOWN per game. That's pretty significant!

The reason the TEAM was 7-4 was not because of Jake, it was because of the defense, which started it's vicious decline about the same time Jay started - Ferguson, Brandon, and Wilson were all lost due to injury about that time, which the Broncos defense to this day has never recovered from, as well as other lost talent.

Lonestar
05-22-2009, 05:10 PM
I specifically stated the whole team stunk against Pittsburgh. I do not lay any more blame on Jake than I do anyone else. But, he was aweful.

And sorry, but I really don't buy the "system" was bad for Jake. I watched those games - Jake was aweful, plain and simple. And I'm not sure how having the rookie WR and the rookie TE play on the practice squad (right were I'd expect most rookies to be practicing) with Cutler effected Jake's performance. Jake's decision making, accuracy, and game management skills were just...off.

I really liked him, and defended him quite vigorously after the AFCCG game, because he was not the only reason the Broncos got whooped on, but when it came time for Jay to start I was fine with that because Jake was just not getting the job done. Interestingly, when Jay started the Bronco's scoring average increased by a TOUCHDOWN per game. That's pretty significant!

The reason the TEAM was 7-4 was not because of Jake, it was because of the defense, which started it's vicious decline about the same time Jay started - Ferguson, Brandon, and Wilson were all lost due to injury about that time, which the Broncos defense to this day has never recovered from, as well as other lost talent.

Look this Offense was designed for jay plain and simple knowing the Jake was more comfortable being the snake out side the pocket..

Go bad or indifferent it was not put in to play to his strengths it was put into to transition to jay.. no other reason but to play to his game..

Now that would have been OK but to be ingenious and not just start jay but to place Jake into the "game" mike was playing well that was not right..

but mike KNEW up front he was not going to get away with it because the veterans would have gone south on him like they did when he tried the same crap with greasy over Bubby..

On top of that the TE and Marshall finally started to get it late in the year "just in time" for jay who they had been working with and had timing down earlier in the year..


Sorry but after that point I had even less respect for his manipulations than before..

he got his way with jay but little good it did as they are both gonzo..

I'm sure that Jake had to chuckle about it when he heard..

powderaddict
05-22-2009, 05:31 PM
So you're saying that Shanahan basically "schemed" Jake to fail, putting the team in a bad position, just so he could put his shiny new toy in?

How exactly did that scheme force Jake to throw more INT's than TDs, and miss his recievers horribly?

"Jake, on this drive I'm going to need you to throw the ball to the other team's CB about halfway down the field, think you can do that?"

"Sure thing coach, I won't let you down!"

What about the 1st pass Jake threw when he went in for a concussed Cutler against SF, and threw a pick? Was that due to Shanahan's Jake-unfriendly scheme?

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on this one Jr.

Lonestar
05-22-2009, 05:46 PM
So you're saying that Shanahan basically "schemed" Jake to fail, putting the team in a bad position, just so he could put his shiny new toy in?

How exactly did that scheme force Jake to throw more INT's than TDs, and miss his recievers horribly?

"Jake, on this drive I'm going to need you to throw the ball to the other team's CB about halfway down the field, think you can do that?"

"Sure thing coach, I won't let you down!"

What about the 1st pass Jake threw when he went in for a concussed Cutler against SF, and threw a pick? Was that due to Shanahan's Jake-unfriendly scheme?

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on this one Jr.

On more pass on it and IF you do not get it fine..


Jake was best as the snake outside the pocket..

the DEN OLINE was smallish

was not designed to pocket pass protect..

was designed for ZBS fast and smart..

IIRC Lepsis went down early that year..

foster was a loser..

tater was not a Real RB..

Scheffler did not get playbook until game 8-10 or so in his own admission..

the scheme was designed for down the field passing.

a new scheme that Jake was flat not used to..

he was not nor ever had been comfortable passing from the pocket..

he was not hired to do so..


just off the top of my head without spending a ton of time on it those are the reasons for failure of the Offense.. that year..

When mike found jay avaailable at #11 he could not beleive it so he rolled the dice I do not really blame him.. He was everything Jake was not..

but to change everything after Gary left and they brought in hummer (another reason) to design the vertical game well the hand writing was on the wall and everyone knew that jay was going to replace Jake sometime.. everyone knew that including Jake..

The only reason Mike did not do so earlier was the Veterans backing Jake..

had it not been for that Jake I believe could have dealt with it for the year better.. but to have the HC tel you be all of his actions that no matter what you did he boys was going to get the job well perhaps you can understand why he might have been less than stellar..

as for the last game who knows why that went south other than resignation by Jake.. everyone knew he was gone nest year and by then I'm sure he was thinking about Idaho already.. Knowing he had a hot girlfriend, had lots of money in the bank and the beating he took all his life who knows for sure..

Broncos Mtnman
05-24-2009, 02:56 PM
Whats funny is the same people that think Jake got what he deserved or wasn't done wrong by Shanny are the same people that think Jay got screwed ahhahaha

What's funny is the same people that think Jay got what he deserved or wasn't done wrong by Mickey Mouse are the same people that think Jake got screwed. hahahahaha

:coffee:

Watchthemiddle
05-24-2009, 05:59 PM
What's funny is the same people that think Jay got what he deserved or wasn't done wrong by Mickey Mouse are the same people that think Jake got screwed. hahahahaha

:coffee:

What's funny is you haven't shown your face around here for months since your wonder boy got the boot from town and your first post back is in a Jake thread. hahahahahahahaha

Simple Jaded
05-24-2009, 06:35 PM
What's funny is you haven't shown your face around here for months since your wonder boy got the boot from town and your first post back is in a Jake thread. hahahahahahahaha


What's funny was you criticizing Cutler for making the same kind of mistakes that started the Jake Wars.......that's ****ing funny.......

silkamilkamonico
05-24-2009, 10:27 PM
Why is there still a jake thread?

And for as much as I criticized Plunger, even he got to the playoffs in his second year of the NFL with a defense that was ranked 21st.

Shazam!
05-25-2009, 12:34 AM
The only good thing is now incoming QBs will be compared to and exceed Jay Cutler and not John Elway, which is much less pressure.

elsid13
05-25-2009, 09:49 AM
On more pass on it and IF you do not get it fine..


Jake was best as the snake outside the pocket..

the DEN OLINE was smallish

was not designed to pocket pass protect..

was designed for ZBS fast and smart..

IIRC Lepsis went down early that year..

foster was a loser..

tater was not a Real RB..

Scheffler did not get playbook until game 8-10 or so in his own admission..

the scheme was designed for down the field passing.

a new scheme that Jake was flat not used to..

he was not nor ever had been comfortable passing from the pocket..

he was not hired to do so..


just off the top of my head without spending a ton of time on it those are the reasons for failure of the Offense.. that year..

When mike found jay avaailable at #11 he could not beleive it so he rolled the dice I do not really blame him.. He was everything Jake was not..

but to change everything after Gary left and they brought in hummer (another reason) to design the vertical game well the hand writing was on the wall and everyone knew that jay was going to replace Jake sometime.. everyone knew that including Jake..

The only reason Mike did not do so earlier was the Veterans backing Jake..

had it not been for that Jake I believe could have dealt with it for the year better.. but to have the HC tel you be all of his actions that no matter what you did he boys was going to get the job well perhaps you can understand why he might have been less than stellar..

as for the last game who knows why that went south other than resignation by Jake.. everyone knew he was gone nest year and by then I'm sure he was thinking about Idaho already.. Knowing he had a hot girlfriend, had lots of money in the bank and the beating he took all his life who knows for sure..

What the Pittsburgh game did was show all the defense coordinators in the league how to stop Plummer in that offense and gave them game tape. Once that happened Shanahan and the rest of the offense staff was forced to adjust the game plans because defenses were taking the rollouts, bootlegs and wiggle out. Heck even KC learned to stop Plummer on naked boot. Problem was once Plummer was forced to stay in the pocket and hit the deep throws he struggled. Both of which weren't and aren't his strength.

It wasn't that Shanahan set up Plummer for failure. It was the defenses figured out what he was able to do and took that away from him. Like they do to most average QBs, especial one that don't want to spend all there time breathing pro-football.

With Cutler, Shanahan saw a guy that could play from the pocket, but also attack the edge because of his mobility. Add in an arm that could hit all area of the field, smart and with gym rat personality it no brainer why he selected him.

But keep on believing that Shanahan screwed Plummer.

Lonestar
05-25-2009, 12:41 PM
What the Pittsburgh game did was show all the defense coordinators in the league how to stop Plummer in that offense and gave them game tape. Once that happened Shanahan and the rest of the offense staff was forced to adjust the game plans because defenses were taking the rollouts, bootlegs and wiggle out. Heck even KC learned to stop Plummer on naked boot. Problem was once Plummer was forced to stay in the pocket and hit the deep throws he struggled. Both of which weren't and aren't his strength.

It wasn't that Shanahan set up Plummer for failure. It was the defenses figured out what he was able to do and took that away from him. Like they do to most average QBs, especial one that don't want to spend all there time breathing pro-football.

With Cutler, Shanahan saw a guy that could play from the pocket, but also attack the edge because of his mobility. Add in an arm that could hit all area of the field, smart and with gym rat personality it no brainer why he selected him.

But keep on believing that Shanahan screwed Plummer.


Your correct that games changed the way we did business.. said it right after it happened..

but what did the master mind do.. instead of fixing the OLINE that was porous he went out and bought a new QB that was still behind our ZBS small OLINE..

You win and lose games at the LOS....

Now after two years we have a real OLINE and it will get bigger yet.. if not this year next ..

Do you think that mike told Jake your days are numbered? Do you think he told Jake the Offense was going to be drop back passing only from here on out? .. or do you think that may have come only after they drafted a Drop back passer.. blind siding their pro bowl QB that just had his best year ever..

I'm sure we will never know for sure how all that went down... But I'll bet my side was closer to the Truth than your blind hatred of Jake or love for jay/mike..

Whatever floats your boat....

Northman
05-25-2009, 04:33 PM
No one needs to defend Jake, and Jake is cool with that which is why I liked him and he is my second favorite Broncos QB. He realized he was lucky to get payed to play a GAME, and I agree that many players like Favre need their ego stroked. I'd love to be in his shoes as far as retiring before I'm 35! :D

He still sucked. :D

Northman
05-25-2009, 04:35 PM
plummer was 40-18 as a starter for denver....yeah he sucked...lol


Too bad his entire career was 69-67. Nice cherry pick though.

Den21vsBal19
05-25-2009, 05:28 PM
Too bad his entire career was 69-67. Nice cherry pick though.
Who gives a damn how he did elsewhere??


Besides, Joe Montana couldn't've turned that sorry franchise around ;)
(at the time)

LRtagger
05-25-2009, 05:44 PM
Too bad his entire career was 69-67. Nice cherry pick though.

Well, he did take the Cardinals to the playoffs more times than Jay took the Broncos to the playoffs.

Benetto
05-25-2009, 05:44 PM
Jake was a good playcaller for us....He made a lot of big plays, and a lot of bonehead plays...It was sad to see most Broncos fans wanted to run him out of town, and it was also sad to see Jake fall apart mentally with Cutler next in line. I was at the AFC divisional game, and got a chance to talk to Jake and shake his hand. I thanked him for bringing playoff football back to Denver and giving me a chance to witness it after a decade. He said "Don't thank me, I'm just one guy out of 53"...He won my respect after that...I told him "Can you get me into the locker room so I can thank them all"...He just laughed and walked away.

I won't lie though, as soon as we named Cutler the starter...I wanted Jake to except the role of backup...Instead he tucked his tail in between his legs, grabbed his football and cried home....That was un-expected...

Watchthemiddle
05-25-2009, 05:52 PM
What's funny was you criticizing Cutler for making the same kind of mistakes that started the Jake Wars.......that's ****ing funny.......

Negative there dude....

I criticized Cutler because he was NOT a leader, had a losing record, NEVER lived up the the hype, pouted if he didn't get his way, was not a leader ( did I mention that already?) ...etc.

Jake got criticized for no reason in the Jake Wars. HE freaking won a lot of games for the Broncos and was unfairly labled. Cutler got what he deserved because he NEVER lived up to the hype of a first round draft pick. Not too mention he was a cry baby ( did I mention that yet?)

Thanks.

Shazam!
05-25-2009, 06:33 PM
I don't think Jake was ever the answer WTM and he DID make a lot of mistakes but he won games... that said though, the defense was never as bad as it has been in the last two seasons. The D on Jake's teams were like worldbeaters compared to what we've seen. It's the worst Broncos defense in almost 20 years. It's not like if Jake had been here 07-08 Denver would've been a playoff team.

Lonestar
05-25-2009, 06:51 PM
I don't think Jake was ever the answer WTM and he DID make a lot of mistakes but he won games... that said though, the defense was never as bad as it has been in the last two seasons. The D on Jake's teams were like worldbeaters compared to what we've seen. It's the worst Broncos defense in almost 20 years. It's not like if Jake had been here 07-08 Denver would've been a playoff team.

He may not have been the answer but mike invested alot of money in him and designed the offense around him till everyone figured out our OLINE sucked at anything buy cut blocking and ZBS..

Did he have enough to win it all? who knows.. But being surrounded by the folks we have on the O now well might be another story.. but he is retired and happy.. One thing mikey never did while he was hear was surround him with a complete team Like John had those last few years..

Shazam!
05-25-2009, 06:53 PM
I know Jr, my point was that much criticsm on Cutler is a little unfair. The defense was a league-wide JOKE.

nevcraw
05-25-2009, 09:05 PM
Negative there dude....

I criticized Cutler because he was NOT a leader, had a losing record, NEVER lived up the the hype, pouted if he didn't get his way, was not a leader ( did I mention that already?) ...etc.

Jake got criticized for no reason in the Jake Wars. HE freaking won a lot of games for the Broncos and was unfairly labled. Cutler got what he deserved because he NEVER lived up to the hype of a first round draft pick. Not too mention he was a cry baby ( did I mention that yet?)

Thanks.

you argument lost all steam the second you typed that out..
Cutler had in fact lived up to the selection of a mid level first round pick who made it the PB after 2.5 years and threw for 9204 yds. 54 TD's vs. 37 INT's and 62% completion percentage with 87% passer rating in that time. Not sure how anyone could have expected more considered he was playing on team with a bunch of holes..
and what hype are you talking about? think we got here another spoiled Bronco fan with some terribly unrealistic expectations..
Expectations that even the great John Elway could not have lived up to..

And in the time when coaches and players never have each others back I was impressed he stood up for shanny and understood why he was miffed that the coach after saying how excited he was to coach him then tried to unload him after 2 weeks on the job..
Plummer played pretty good and the team won games when he was there but that guy usually won because he ran out of time on the way to a loss. He was a bad throw waiting to happen.
I love how you bad mouth the character of a 24/25 year old kid but say nothing of Plummer's antics.. Finger to fan's, Traffic altercations, ditching fiance at the alter...etc.

LRtagger
05-26-2009, 10:23 AM
you argument lost all steam the second you typed that out..
Cutler had in fact lived up to the selection of a mid level first round pick who made it the PB after 2.5 years and threw for 9204 yds. 54 TD's vs. 37 INT's and 62% completion percentage with 87% passer rating in that time. Not sure how anyone could have expected more considered he was playing on team with a bunch of holes..
and what hype are you talking about? think we got here another spoiled Bronco fan with some terribly unrealistic expectations..
Expectations that even the great John Elway could not have lived up to..




The hype about how he was a franchise QB for the Denver Broncos. He was hyped up by Broncos fans (myself included) as the long-term replacement for John Elway....until he forced his way out of town.

Yea I know all the Cutler fannies will say it was McD's fault, but at least after the mistake was made and all was said and done, Coach was willing to try and make it right with Jay, but Jay was still too busy crying over it.

Now that its over, it is clear as day that Jay did not want to be a Denver Bronco and he is happier now in Chicago than he ever was here with us. I say good riddance to both him and Jake. Both of them really turned their backs on their teammates and fans.

Northman
05-26-2009, 11:51 AM
Well, he did take the Cardinals to the playoffs more times than Jay took the Broncos to the playoffs.

And?

Broncospsycho77
05-26-2009, 12:08 PM
Jake was hardly the best man for the job, but for whatever unexplainable reason, when he was in, the offense worked. The unpredictability of Jake was an enigma for most teams; they didn't really have any gameplan to counter him (until the Steelers started the "bumrush the line" game). So he won. And I'll give him credit for that, however he did it. Winning ugly counts for the same number of wins as winning pretty.

silkamilkamonico
05-26-2009, 12:20 PM
Well, he did take the Cardinals to the playoffs more times than Jay took the Broncos to the playoffs.

He had more playoff wins with Arizona his first 2 years in the NFL than Cutler did playoff appearances with his tenure at Denver, AND Plunger had less to work with in Arizona offensively AND defensively than Cutler did in Denver.

Lets not forget Cutler lost at Vanderbuilt, to teams like Navy and Middle Tennessee State University.

Slick
05-26-2009, 12:29 PM
I think Steve DeBerg got a raw deal. We should have kept Hinton.

Lonestar
05-26-2009, 01:44 PM
I know Jr, my point was that much criticsm on Cutler is a little unfair. The defense was a league-wide JOKE.

and frankly has been more than the past couple of years..

Sure one year we would have a great run defense but then the pass D sucked below 15.. so in most cases they did not have to run because they could pass at will..

Conversely a few years our Pass defense was pretty good but that was because we could not stop the run..

I can't remember how long it has been one both were top ten.

mike NEVER prioritized D except when drafting LB's and was not all that bad at it.. but beyond those 3-4 first day LB's his "skill" at getting a defensive players via the draft sucked..

he loved his O to much to waste alot of time and effort on D.. After Robinson left everyone were yes men..

LRtagger
05-26-2009, 02:25 PM
And?

I'm just saying...you brought up his career record which was weighed down because he played in AZ....and AZ was like the Rams or Lions of today

yet he still managed a playoff birth with that team and their first playoff win against a good Cowboys team. He nearly single-handedly carried that team to victory every week. It was their first winning season in something like 15 years.

nevcraw
05-26-2009, 03:36 PM
the hype about how he was a franchise qb for the denver broncos.
he was hyped up by broncos fans (myself included) as the long-term replacement for john elway....until he forced his way out of town.
debatable who forced whom.. I do not know nor does any other fan really know the truth behind this whole ordeal..
He was a franchise qb in training prior to the new coach coming in. His ability and talent were exactly what you could hope for in a mid 1st round pick with 2.5 years of experience. It make me laugh that people now expect immediate dividens in playmaking, decision making and maturity.. Must be a rough group of parents on this forum..


yea i know all the cutler fannies will say it was mcd's fault, but at least after the mistake was made and all was said and done, coach was willing to try and make it right with jay, but jay was still too busy crying over it.

again debatable.. How much true mending was mcd really doing? I saw all of the tongue and cheek smirky interviews and was not convinced of his willingness in meeting half way.. Before you throw me in into any camp, i though both sides we at fault but am more leanient on a 25 year old roacket arm upside who is still learning and improving than ahead coach who is tightening his own noose with the decisions he makes unless verything works out perfectly..



now that its over, it is clear as day that jay did not want to be a denver bronco and he is happier now in chicago than he ever was here with us. I say good riddance to both him and jake. Both of them really turned their backs on their teammates and fans.

I guess they both got what they wanted.. Coach didn't want him and he decided he didn't want the coach neither..

quote][/quote]

LRtagger
05-26-2009, 04:07 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jay the one not returning calls, not willing to meet in person, demanding a trade, hi-fiving his friends when he learned about said trade?

Meanwhile you have a coach...who may have made a mistake in negotiations for trading the player, but then tried to work the situation out. Called and texted, tried to setup a face-to-face with no agents involved and constantly said "he is our quarterback".

Yea both are at fault for the situation, but ultimately Jay Cutler is the person who demanded the trade. You ignore your boss(es), you get let go. Jay Cutler turned his back on you, me, every member here, his friends and teammates and CHOSE to leave the team. He forced his hand and got what he wanted.

Whether Coach wanted him gone after the fact is speculation. It's not like Jay said "I want to come back to the team" and coach said "No, I can't have you on this team now". All signs point to Coach at least attempting to resolve the situation and Jay ignoring those attempts.

nevcraw
05-26-2009, 04:27 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jay the one not returning calls, not willing to meet in person, demanding a trade, hi-fiving his friends when he learned about said trade?

Meanwhile you have a coach...who may have made a mistake in negotiations for trading the player, but then tried to work the situation out. Called and texted, tried to setup a face-to-face with no agents involved and constantly said "he is our quarterback".

Yea both are at fault for the situation, but ultimately Jay Cutler is the person who demanded the trade. You ignore your boss(es), you get let go. Jay Cutler turned his back on you, me, every member here, his friends and teammates and CHOSE to leave the team. He forced his hand and got what he wanted.

Whether Coach wanted him gone after the fact is speculation. It's not like Jay said "I want to come back to the team" and coach said "No, I can't have you on this team now". All signs point to Coach at least attempting to resolve the situation and Jay ignoring those attempts.


Please.. if your girlfriend went out on a date with someone else right after pledging her love to you and then said after "I can always end up with someone else but I am still your girlfriend now aren't I?
you'd look for a way out too.. if not I would question your self worth.. same goes for Jay..
jay could have sucked it up some and should have called Pat back for sure, but he certainly was not the catalyst.

Northman
05-26-2009, 06:55 PM
I'm just saying...you brought up his career record which was weighed down because he played in AZ....and AZ was like the Rams or Lions of today

yet he still managed a playoff birth with that team and their first playoff win against a good Cowboys team. He nearly single-handedly carried that team to victory every week. It was their first winning season in something like 15 years.


Yet he couldnt repeat that feat with a much stronger Bronco team. Go figure. My overall point was he was an average QB and his win/loss record was a reflection of that.

silkamilkamonico
05-27-2009, 12:49 AM
Please.. if your girlfriend went out on a date with someone else right after pledging her love to you and then said after "I can always end up with someone else but I am still your girlfriend now aren't I?
you'd look for a way out too..

I certainly know if I was on a date with my girlfriend, brought her out to the local Sizzler for dinner, and caught her looking at some other guy, I would cut ties immediately with her, not return any of her phone calls, have no communication with her whatsoever from then on, and immediately demand a new girlfriend who's only going to look at me for the rest of her life.

Nevermind the fact that I haven't exactly been the most perfect boyfriend for her whatsoever in the past.

:rolleyes:

silkamilkamonico
05-27-2009, 12:51 AM
Yet he couldnt repeat that feat with a much stronger Bronco team. Go figure. My overall point was he was an average QB and his win/loss record was a reflection of that.

Doesn't say much for Jay Cutler, who apparently is a below average Qb according to his record. And before anyone throws out the defense argument, even Jake Plummer, and Carson Palmer led teams to the playoffs within their first 3 seasons without a running game, or a defense ranked in the top 20 for that matter. Cutler's defense in his second year was ranked 19th. That's an immediate failing grade for Cutler, in comparison with those 2.

NightTrainLayne
05-27-2009, 12:51 AM
Yet he couldnt repeat that feat with a much stronger Bronco team. Go figure. My overall point was he was an average QB and his win/loss record was a reflection of that.

Couldn't repeat that feat? We were in the playoffs three consecutive years with an AFC Championship appearance. .. 10-6 10-6 13-3. . .

Northman
05-27-2009, 12:59 AM
Doesn't say much for Jay Cutler, who apparently is a below average Qb according to his record. And before anyone throws out the defense argument, even Jake Plummer, and Carson Palmer led teams to the playoffs within their first 3 seasons without a running game, or a defense ranked in the top 20 for that matter. Cutler's defense in his second year was ranked 19th. That's an immediate failing grade for Cutler, in comparison with those 2.

Maybe, maybe not. If Jay Cutler still has a average win/loss record by his 10th year you might actually have a point.

Northman
05-27-2009, 01:00 AM
Couldn't repeat that feat? We were in the playoffs three consecutive years with an AFC Championship appearance. .. 10-6 10-6 13-3. . .

And he was what? 1-3? Phew, color me underwhelmed.

silkamilkamonico
05-27-2009, 01:01 AM
Maybe, maybe not. If Jay Cutler still has a average win/loss record by his 10th year you might actually have a point.

If Jay Cutler had been leading Denver to wins and playoff appearances the last 3 years, I would probably be just as upset as you. Considering the organization has been nothing short of a joke in that time span, I welcome all the changes I can get.

Shazam!
05-27-2009, 01:04 AM
John Elway was .500 (injured) with the worst defense in the NFL in '94, though he spent a lot of the time running for his life.

Northman
05-27-2009, 01:05 AM
If Jay Cutler had been leading Denver to wins and playoff appearances the last 3 years, I would probably be just as upset as you. Considering the organization has been nothing short of a joke in that time span, I welcome all the changes I can get.


Why would i be upset if he was leading us to playoff wins? I dont get it? :lol:

In-com-plete
05-27-2009, 07:33 AM
Long live Jake the Snake!

If I got screwed like he did, I'd walk away from my job to.


:salute: to you #16.

MOtorboat
05-27-2009, 07:35 AM
Jake Plummer, ftw.
Jay Cutler, ftl.

:vroam:
:couch:

In-com-plete
05-27-2009, 07:46 AM
Oh, and I'm sure it's been pointed out, (I'm not reading through another Plummer thread getting pissed off at all the moron Anti's that bash him again) but the best thing about that article is it puts down all the fools accusations that he didn't still love playing football and that he only retired because he didn't want to have to compete to win a starting job.

He talked about walking away a few days after he was benched. It's not like not getting traded to the Texans was the reason, like some/most/all of the Anti's said.

Jake the MF'n Snake baby!

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 08:02 AM
Oh, and I'm sure it's been pointed out, (I'm not reading through another Plummer thread getting pissed off at all the moron Anti's that bash him again) but the best thing about that article is it puts down all the fools accusations that he didn't still love playing football and that he only retired because he didn't want to have to compete to win a starting job.

He talked about walking away a few days after he was benched. It's not like not getting traded to the Tampa was the reason, like some/most/all of the Anti's said.

Jake the MF'n Snake baby!

Edited for accuracy

In-com-plete
05-27-2009, 08:11 AM
Edited for accuracy

Well, actually, I meant to say Texans. Because a ton of people thought he only wanted to play for Kubiak. And since TB got him, those people though he didn't want to compete for a starting QB gig or want to play for any coach other than Kubes.

;)

silkamilkamonico
05-27-2009, 08:43 AM
Why would i be upset if he was leading us to playoff wins? I dont get it? :lol:

Well I'm glad we see eye to eye then for getting rid of a losing career QB with some serious character flaws.

LRtagger
05-27-2009, 11:14 AM
Please.. if your girlfriend went out on a date with someone else right after pledging her love to you and then said after "I can always end up with someone else but I am still your girlfriend now aren't I?
you'd look for a way out too.. if not I would question your self worth.. same goes for Jay..
jay could have sucked it up some and should have called Pat back for sure, but he certainly was not the catalyst.

Go ahead and question my self worth, then....because I do not categorize my personal life with my working life. Work relationships are in no way similar to personal relationships.

If my boss promised me a promotion, but hired someone else instead to fill that position who he felt was more qualified, I would still show up for work the next day.

And I am the one who's self-worth should be questioned? We are talking about a guy who ignored his teammates/friends, ignored the man who hired him and paid him millions of dollars, and ignored the fans that wanted him to put it behind him and move on as the QB for this team. I think Jay is the one that needs to question his self-worth. He is not bigger than this franchise and he never will be.

Northman
05-27-2009, 11:44 AM
Well, actually, I meant to say Texans. Because a ton of people thought he only wanted to play for Kubiak. And since TB got him, those people though he didn't want to compete for a starting QB gig or want to play for any coach other than Kubes.

;)


By Jason Cole, Charles Robinson and John Murphy
March 2, 2007

The Bucs want Jake Plummer, but the feeling isn't mutual.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers made a deal to acquire the quarterback from Denver on Friday for a fourth-round draft pick in this year's draft.

But according to a league source, Plummer has decided to retire, nullifying the deal that would have sent him to Tampa Bay. Plummer apparently was not interested in joining a team which would not name him to an immediate starting spot, which the Buccaneers refused to do.

Plummer would have had to battle returning starter Chris Simms for the starting job in Tampa Bay. The deal also could have opened the door for an AFC West battle between the Broncos and Oakland Raiders for the rights to free agent signal caller Jeff Garcia, who has received initial interest from both teams.

Plummer lost his job in Denver last season to rookie Jay Cutler after playing inconsistently over the first half of the season. Plummer also fell out of favor with the Broncos during the playoffs in the 2005 season after a poor performance in the AFC championship game against Pittsburgh.

The 32-year-old Plummer finished last season with 11 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 11 starts. Plummer played well in the previous three seasons, throwing 60 touchdowns and 34 interceptions in that span.

Plummer seemed to lose his confidence as last season progressed. After losing his starting job, Plummer was upset with how Denver coach Mike Shanahan dealt with the change. Plummer was particularly angry that he received a phone call from his position coach to inform him of the change rather than hearing directly from Shanahan.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-plummer030207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

MOtorboat
05-27-2009, 11:48 AM
Plummer would have had to battle returning starter Chris Simms for the starting job in Tampa Bay.

This is what we call irony.

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 12:33 PM
By Jason Cole, Charles Robinson and John Murphy
March 2, 2007

The Bucs want Jake Plummer, but the feeling isn't mutual.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers made a deal to acquire the quarterback from Denver on Friday for a fourth-round draft pick in this year's draft.

But according to a league source, Plummer has decided to retire, nullifying the deal that would have sent him to Tampa Bay. Plummer apparently was not interested in joining a team which would not name him to an immediate starting spot, which the Buccaneers refused to do.

Plummer would have had to battle returning starter Chris Simms for the starting job in Tampa Bay. The deal also could have opened the door for an AFC West battle between the Broncos and Oakland Raiders for the rights to free agent signal caller Jeff Garcia, who has received initial interest from both teams.

Plummer lost his job in Denver last season to rookie Jay Cutler after playing inconsistently over the first half of the season. Plummer also fell out of favor with the Broncos during the playoffs in the 2005 season after a poor performance in the AFC championship game against Pittsburgh.

The 32-year-old Plummer finished last season with 11 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 11 starts. Plummer played well in the previous three seasons, throwing 60 touchdowns and 34 interceptions in that span.

Plummer seemed to lose his confidence as last season progressed. After losing his starting job, Plummer was upset with how Denver coach Mike Shanahan dealt with the change. Plummer was particularly angry that he received a phone call from his position coach to inform him of the change rather than hearing directly from Shanahan.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-plummer030207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



Yep Yahoo sports knows for sure what Jake had to say or for that matter think..

Just as we saw this past few months not all that is reported is the truth..

MOtorboat
05-27-2009, 01:03 PM
Yep Yahoo sports knows for sure what Jake had to say or for that matter think..

Just as we saw this past few months not all that is reported is the truth..

Well, just because it wasn't a direct quote doesn't make it untrue.

LRtagger
05-27-2009, 01:11 PM
Yep the quote also says "apparently" and "seemed".

Speculation.

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 01:11 PM
Well, just because it wasn't a direct quote doesn't make it untrue.


your correct BUT we all saw how many unsubstantiated reports were made over the past 3-4 months.. in some cases close reports, others out of the blue YONDER..

I'm just gonna say I give yahoo sports, who to the best of my knowledge have NO feet on the ground reporters. Just a little less respect than say Adam and we all know he was not all that spot on with jaygate..

Northman
05-27-2009, 03:28 PM
Yep Yahoo sports knows for sure what Jake had to say or for that matter think..

Just as we saw this past few months not all that is reported is the truth..

Great point, so i go by the actions of Jake Plummer more than what people claim in the media. Jake gets benched and then is thrown up as trade bait and all of a sudden he wants to retire. That speaks pretty clearly to me. :salute:

claymore
05-27-2009, 03:33 PM
Shouldnt this be in the Olympic Handball thread?

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 04:18 PM
Great point, so i go by the actions of Jake Plummer more than what people claim in the media. Jake gets benched and then is thrown up as trade bait and all of a sudden he wants to retire. That speaks pretty clearly to me. :salute:


From what I heard (from teammates) he was talking of retiring before the season was over..

which some folks think prompted mike to try and get something for nothing..

NightTrainLayne
05-27-2009, 04:56 PM
From what I heard (from teammates) he was talking of retiring before the season was over..

which some folks think prompted mike to try and get something for nothing..

I think this is correct. Jake was tired of the NFL grind, and had as he said himelf "More money than I could ever hope to spend". Even if Tampa Bay had guaranteed him the starting spot I think he retires. To Jake, all the money in the world doesn't buy happiness, and he wasn't happy anymore in the NFL, so the NFL couldn't buy him off. Heck, didn't he have to return a few million bucks to Tampa Bay even?

powderaddict
05-27-2009, 05:18 PM
I think this is correct. Jake was tired of the NFL grind, and had as he said himelf "More money than I could ever hope to spend". Even if Tampa Bay had guaranteed him the starting spot I think he retires. To Jake, all the money in the world doesn't buy happiness, and he wasn't happy anymore in the NFL, so the NFL couldn't buy him off. Heck, didn't he have to return a few million bucks to Tampa Bay even?

3.5 million IIRC.

I wish I could walk away from work and still be able to pay them $3.5 million to do it!

broncohead
05-27-2009, 06:03 PM
Go ahead and question my self worth, then....because I do not categorize my personal life with my working life. Work relationships are in no way similar to personal relationships.

If my boss promised me a promotion, but hired someone else instead to fill that position who he felt was more qualified, I would still show up for work the next day.

And I am the one who's self-worth should be questioned? We are talking about a guy who ignored his teammates/friends, ignored the man who hired him and paid him millions of dollars, and ignored the fans that wanted him to put it behind him and move on as the QB for this team. I think Jay is the one that needs to question his self-worth. He is not bigger than this franchise and he never will be.

I guess it was buisiness for the Broncos and Cutler. When it comes to buisiness their is no loyalty.

Northman
05-27-2009, 06:56 PM
From what I heard (from teammates) he was talking of retiring before the season was over..

which some folks think prompted mike to try and get something for nothing..

Ohhh, more hearsay. Yea, like i said. I go by the actions of the player and how the sequence of events unfolded.

Simple Jaded
05-27-2009, 07:42 PM
The only good thing is now incoming QBs will be compared to and exceed Jay Cutler and not John Elway, which is much less pressure.

If Cutler, Plummer and Griese were expected to live up to the Elway legend, so will Orton/Simms.......as long as Broncos QB's are throwing Int's there will be unhappy Broncos fans, soon after there will be other fans trying to talk them off the ledge with comparison's to Elway.

There isn't a QB on the planet that Broncos fans couldn't find imperfections in.......

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 09:42 PM
If Cutler, Plummer and Griese were expected to live up to the Elway legend, so will Orton/Simms.......as long as Broncos QB's are throwing Int's there will be unhappy Broncos fans, soon after there will be other fans trying to talk them off the ledge with comparison's to Elway.

There isn't a QB on the planet that Broncos fans couldn't find imperfections in.......



Only John was created perfect in many minds..

Your correct about John being the yardstick, as many Baltimore folks still use Johnny as theirs..

Heaven help the guys that has to take over for Manning in IND and Brady in NE..

ChairmanBron
05-28-2009, 01:59 AM
.... Plummer apparently was not interested in joining a team which would not name him to an immediate starting spot, which the Buccaneers refused to do.
....


Yep Yahoo sports knows for sure what Jake had to say or for that matter think..

Just as we saw this past few months not all that is reported is the truth..


...Jake was tired of the NFL grind, and had as he said himelf "More money than I could ever hope to spend". Even if Tampa Bay had guaranteed him the starting spot I think he retires. To Jake, all the money in the world doesn't buy happiness, and he wasn't happy anymore in the NFL, so the NFL couldn't buy him off. Heck, didn't he have to return a few million bucks to Tampa Bay even?

I really think Jon Gruden and GM Bruce Allen actually offered Plummer in person the starting job when they flew to Idaho several times.

Jon Gruden loves the snake...
"We're talking about Jake Plummer here, so we'll reserve a roster spot for the 'Snake' a little while longer," Gruden said. "If it was Jake Jones or Jake Johnson or Jake Gruden, we'd probably bypass the holding pattern we're in right now. [But] this is one heck of a football player who has accomplished a great deal. At this point, he's retired, and hopefully, at some point, he changes his mind or reconsiders."


Jake decided retire the day he lost his job. He was done. I think it had nothing to do with money or the starting job. I think he still would of retired if the Texans traded for him. Maybe Kubiak knew something and was the reason he did not pull the trigger to go after Jake.


.



.

pnbronco
05-28-2009, 02:11 AM
This is what we call irony.

:laugh: I was thinking the same thing, I guess great minds....
thanks for writing it, made me laugh and it's been a looong day

Lonestar
05-28-2009, 03:17 AM
I really think Jon Gruden and GM Bruce Allen actually offered Plummer in person the starting job when they flew to Idaho several times.

Jon Gruden loves the snake...
"We're talking about Jake Plummer here, so we'll reserve a roster spot for the 'Snake' a little while longer," Gruden said. "If it was Jake Jones or Jake Johnson or Jake Gruden, we'd probably bypass the holding pattern we're in right now. [But] this is one heck of a football player who has accomplished a great deal. At this point, he's retired, and hopefully, at some point, he changes his mind or reconsiders."


Jake decided retire the day he lost his job. He was done. I think it had nothing to do with money or the starting job. I think he still would of retired if the Texans traded for him. Maybe Kubiak knew something and was the reason he did not pull the trigger to go after Jake.


.



.

While I think Jake was tired of the grind I believe that had Gary called and traded for him he probably would have gone.. As he trusted Gary and had a great relationship with him prior to Gary leaving mike..

Perhaps not but I think he would have moved to HOU if called..

In-com-plete
05-28-2009, 10:07 AM
Ohhh, more hearsay. Yea, like i said. I go by the actions of the player and how the sequence of events unfolded.

Actually, I saw an interview with Plummer after the last game of the season. He said he'd look at everything. All his options, whether it be here (Denver), somewhere else, or retiring.

When I first heard him say retire I was shocked. Never thought he'd retire considering he still had some left in the tank. But with god as my witness, I saw and heard Plummer say this on tv right after the last game of the season.

But you heard it from me, so it's hearsay right?

Northman
05-28-2009, 10:35 AM
Actually, I saw an interview with Plummer after the last game of the season. He said he'd look at everything. All his options, whether it be here (Denver), somewhere else, or retiring.

When I first heard him say retire I was shocked. Never thought he'd retire considering he still had some left in the tank. But with god as my witness, I saw and heard Plummer say this on tv right after the last game of the season.

But you heard it from me, so it's hearsay right?

Yep.

silkamilkamonico
05-28-2009, 12:46 PM
Plunger said in college that he didn't want to be playing football in his 30's.

Props to the guy for understanding the concept of "life after football".

Lonestar
05-28-2009, 02:06 PM
Plunger said in college that he didn't want to be playing football in his 30's.

Props to the guy for understanding the concept of "life after football".


Jake also said when he was in college that he did not think he would ever get a chance to play in the NFL, even after being a Heisman candidate.. After he was drafted he said it was an honor and did not think he would be playing in the NFL long.. It was beyond his expectations to be doing so..

It sounds like he invested well instead of buying expensive clothes, houses and cars .. :salute:

nevcraw
05-28-2009, 03:00 PM
Ahh.. let's defend the poor snake - remember this little gem?


May 28, 1997: Charged with felony sexual abuse
June 27, 1997: Struck a plea bargain and received two years probation; also fined $1,020and ordered to perform 100 hours of community service

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/29/sports/plummer-is-charged.html

JAKE PLUMMER, the quarterback who led Arizona State to the Rose Bowl before being drafted by the Arizona Cardinals, was charged yesterday on four felony counts of sexual abuse stemming from an incident in a Tempe, Ariz., nightclub.

The charges were announced by the Maricopa County Attorney, RICK ROMLEY, who has said a settlement Plummer reached with three accusers did not free him from prosecution.

The alleged incident occurred last March at Club Rio. Three women charged that Plummer reached under their clothes while they danced.

Romley said a fourth woman came forward later and made similar allegations against Plummer.

Plummer was also charged in the criminal complaint with one count of misdemeanor assault. If convicted on all charges, he would face more than eight years in prison.

Lonestar
05-28-2009, 03:20 PM
Hmmmmm that is all you got .. I'm guessing you have never danced with someone and copped a feel..

there are felonies and there are PC felonies.. which one does this fall under..

MOtorboat
05-28-2009, 03:23 PM
In related news, she didn't sue the guy that she slept with that night, after he copped a feel, because he didn't go on to make millions of dollars in the NFL...

nevcraw
05-28-2009, 04:28 PM
Hmmmmm that is all you got .. I'm guessing you have never danced with someone and copped a feel..

there are felonies and there are PC felonies.. which one does this fall under..

Tell that to the 4 scarred women he molested.

Sorry, JR - the law takes sexual assallt seriously. - I am saddened to see you don't.

silkamilkamonico
05-28-2009, 04:46 PM
Ahh.. let's defend the poor snake - remember this little gem?


May 28, 1997: Charged with felony sexual abuse
June 27, 1997: Struck a plea bargain and received two years probation; also fined $1,020and ordered to perform 100 hours of community service

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/29/sports/plummer-is-charged.html

JAKE PLUMMER, the quarterback who led Arizona State to the Rose Bowl before being drafted by the Arizona Cardinals, was charged yesterday on four felony counts of sexual abuse stemming from an incident in a Tempe, Ariz., nightclub.

The charges were announced by the Maricopa County Attorney, RICK ROMLEY, who has said a settlement Plummer reached with three accusers did not free him from prosecution.

The alleged incident occurred last March at Club Rio. Three women charged that Plummer reached under their clothes while they danced.

Romley said a fourth woman came forward later and made similar allegations against Plummer.

Plummer was also charged in the criminal complaint with one count of misdemeanor assault. If convicted on all charges, he would face more than eight years in prison.


I would agree, and leave it completely equal to the "Jay Cutler is a career loser" argument.

powderaddict
05-28-2009, 04:47 PM
Hmmmmm that is all you got .. I'm guessing you have never danced with someone and copped a feel..



I've danced with women on multiple occasions, and managed to do so without groping any of them.

Wait -- are you saying that you HAVE groped women while dancing?

On the flip side, I have been groped by a woman at a concert before, never did find out who she was :D

silkamilkamonico
05-28-2009, 04:48 PM
Tell that to the 4 scarred women he molested.

Sorry, JR - the law takes sexual assallt seriously. - I am saddened to see you don't.

No kidding. You don't have to look past Peyton Manning and his mooning incident to figure that one out.

horsepig
05-28-2009, 05:07 PM
Man, can we please talk about football. Jake was the winningest QB in team history, percentage wise. 40-18, I think. That's pretty fair IMO. Enough said.

silkamilkamonico
05-28-2009, 05:14 PM
Man, can we please talk about football. Jake was the winningest QB in team history, percentage wise. 40-18, I think. That's pretty fair IMO. Enough said.

"Who cares about actually winning games when you can have a QB that has a stronger arm than John Elway."

Broncos Mtnman
05-28-2009, 05:33 PM
Hmmmmm that is all you got .. I'm guessing you have never danced with someone and copped a feel..

there are felonies and there are PC felonies.. which one does this fall under..

Besides showing an incredible lack of class, I'm guessing by your locker room reference that you're totally clueless concerning sexual assault. I guess if it happens to one of your daughters, you're going to give the other guy a pass, right?

But hey, if it's the Jakester, then anything goes. Road rage, flipping off the fans, accusing Denver fans as being the worst in the league. As long as he does things his way and sticks it to the man, or in this case a woman, it's all cool.

And you accuse Jay Cutler fans of idol worship. Give me a break.

:coffee:

Lonestar
05-28-2009, 05:59 PM
Besides showing an incredible lack of class, I'm guessing by your locker room reference that you're totally clueless concerning sexual assault. I guess if it happens to one of your daughters, you're going to give the other guy a pass, right?

But hey, if it's the Jakester, then anything goes. Road rage, flipping off the fans, accusing Denver fans as being the worst in the league. As long as he does things his way and sticks it to the man, or in this case a woman, it's all cool.

And you accuse Jay Cutler fans of idol worship. Give me a break.

:coffee:

I'll bite no if it was indeed something other than copping a feel then indeed it is an issue..


But I'll bet that was about all it is or was..

I know in my days that was not illegal but of course in todays PC world not seeking permission to touch or smile at the opposite sex could be called sexual harassment.. Glad I'm not out in the bar scene today..

I would feel the same way about it if it were jay or John.. It being about Jake, had nothing to do with how I answered the the post.. Unlike some that go rabid when Jake is mentioned..

I guess I come from a less touchy feelly time pardon the pun..

broncohead
05-28-2009, 06:07 PM
"Who cares about actually winning games when you can have a QB that has a stronger arm than John Elway."

Isn't there a Cutler thread out there you can post on? I think there are enough as it is.

Lonestar
05-28-2009, 06:10 PM
I've danced with women on multiple occasions, and managed to do so without groping any of them.

Wait -- are you saying that you HAVE groped women while dancing?

On the flip side, I have been groped by a woman at a concert before, never did find out who she was :D


you know it has been so long since I actually dance close enough to a girl back in 7th grade there was a girl named Barbara I have to publicly apologize to since I'm now PC considered a grouper..

I guess times have changed since 1958 or so..

And Yes "Daughters are Gods revenge on men"..

silkamilkamonico
05-28-2009, 06:29 PM
Isn't there a Cutler thread out there you can post on? I think there are enough as it is.

Who said anything about Jay Cutler? This thread is about Jake "the snake" Plunger. Please don't bring Jay Cutler into yet another thread discussing a previous Denver Bronco QB failure. There's enough of those going around with something titled to the extent of "Jay Cutler".