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sneakers
05-20-2009, 01:30 AM
I hate that jackass...and I hope that this would never happen, but after the the last 4 or 5 months, who can tell anymore?

That being said, I think it would be hard for me to watch a Bronco game.

bcbronc
05-20-2009, 03:00 AM
I'd kick my dog.

Benetto
05-20-2009, 04:03 AM
First off I would like to say, it would never happen...As far fetched as shit has been with our Broncs lately...It would never happen...

IF it would happen, I would become a big time McDaniels hater. It would be the equivalent of my lady leaving me for Jamarcus Russell.....

Michael Vick is what is wrong with America...Young, rich and stupid...Everyone on here knows as well as I do Michael has NO remorse for what he has done or will do in the future.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks...Its always gonna be a lame duck.


The thought of him in O&B does not sit well with me...It really would be a sad day for me.

roomemp
05-20-2009, 07:10 AM
I could live with it. I trust in the American justice system. I would not be opposed to him having a second chance in Denver. Let it be known that the first slip up he is gone. Sign him at the veteran min.

Nomad
05-20-2009, 07:13 AM
From the human side of me, none of these guys in the NFL should have second chances if one harms/kills another human or animal (unless you're willing to eat the animal you kill), is involved or knows about a crime (cough Ray Lewis etc), why should they continue to make millions when the average Joe would be villianized and never get a decent career then again it's entertainment and the one's who fill the seats will be forgiven easier....same could be said for Hollywood. Plus Vick would bring his media circus and the general public's (who has no interest in the NFL) hate towards the BRONCOS and they'll be branded. I'd say hell 'NO'.

From the football side of me, I say 'sign his ass tomorrow'. He's not the best pocket passing QB but he can do magic with his legs and he can still throw a decent pass if needed with a strong arm....accuracy is questionable. The BRONCOS could implement the 'BRONCOS Wildcat' and Vick would thrive. Winning cures all and oddly it finds forgiveness in the most harden of hearts amongst fans, but I believe he would cost too much for the role and is he as good as he was two years ago. I do remember what he did to the BRONCOS one Halloween afternoon.:tsk:

MasterShake
05-20-2009, 07:28 AM
How would I react? I'd jump on my unicorn and ride to OZ because this is obviously a dream. Then I'd have pancakes with Abraham Lincoln with real log cabin syrup!

Timmy!
05-20-2009, 07:39 AM
:vomit:

broncofaninfla
05-20-2009, 07:45 AM
I'd say we signed yet another running back.

Seriously though, Vick has lost everything, he has paid his dues and then some. Hopefully a team signs him and lets him compete for a roster spot. I personally feel he can still contribute in this league. He doesn't fit our system here but I can't think of a better wildcat QB for the teams that run it.

Dirk
05-20-2009, 08:04 AM
I DO NOT want Vick in Orange and Blue. I say NO WAY NO HOW!

However, if they will let a man who got drunk and killed someone in an auto accident continue to play in the NFL (Leonard Little, Rams), then how can they say no to Vick coming back into the league.

I just don't want him playing for the Broncos.

Dr Velcro
05-20-2009, 08:11 AM
If he obeyed the law, acted like a professional athlete, gave back to the community & redeemed himself in the eyes of millions of football fans....

Yeah, who knows?

I think that once the crime has been paid for....

Most people should get a second chance.

Bronco Bible
05-20-2009, 08:47 AM
I agree with the second chance thought, but NOT in Denver..

Shazam!
05-20-2009, 08:47 AM
I cannot say. One thing I do know is that my view of my beloved Broncos would be changed forever and never be the same.

LRtagger
05-20-2009, 08:54 AM
i would take my aggression out by letting two dogs fight to the death in a cage.

Nomad
05-20-2009, 09:02 AM
Denver has a law banning pit bulls, is it true if one is found in the city the dog is automatically uthinized and no questions asked??

broncophan
05-20-2009, 09:18 AM
Denver has a law banning pit bulls, is it true if one is found in the city the dog is automatically uthinized and no questions asked??

Are you talking about the dog or the owner of the pit bull being euthinized?

Northman
05-20-2009, 09:18 AM
I would be pretty displeased to say the least.

broncophan
05-20-2009, 09:21 AM
Denver has a law banning pit bulls, is it true if one is found in the city the dog is automatically uthinized and no questions asked??

Are you talking about the pit bull or the owner of the pit bull being euthinized?

Nomad
05-20-2009, 09:55 AM
Are you talking about the pit bull or the owner of the pit bull being euthinized?

Are you serious lol? I'm talking about the dog breed, pit bull. Vick did needless, heartless killings of the dogs and he was punished and should contribute his time until he dies helping these dogs. But couldn't the same be said about the city of Denver for the needless, heartless killing of a breed of dog (pit bull) or is it ok because it is written in law? In other words, Denver should be the last to cast a stone as far as the crime Vick did!!

Dreadnought
05-20-2009, 09:57 AM
Good Lord - that might be the last straw. I couldn't become a fan of another team, but I'd find it hard to root for the Broncos as long as that filth wore the uniform. I'd probably drink heavily for a while and think on it.

underrated29
05-20-2009, 09:58 AM
I wouldnt mind it. He wouldnt be my first choice, but the man has a super strong arm, and of course his legs. Team that w\up knowshon and no team could stop our running.

But vick is not an accurate passer with our Talented WR and new scheme he would not fit in very well with what we are trying to do.

I woulnt mind him coming here, but it wouldnt be my first choice. Or second, or third, or...............

rationalfan
05-20-2009, 10:09 AM
i'm not sticking up for vick because, frankly, i don't care about the guy. but don't act like he's hitler reincarnated. what he did was cruel, but you'd be surprised at how vile some of the former broncos were - even some of your heroes.

BroncoWave
05-20-2009, 10:12 AM
I figure he's not going to try to come back until next season but if Orton and Simms were both flops and we could get Vick for a low price, I would jump all over all it.

He's paid his debt to society for what he did, why shouldn't he get a second chance? He knows fully well that one more slipup would end his NFL career forever so do you guys really think he's going to go right back to dogfighting now that he's out of jail? I don't think he's that stupid.

GEM
05-20-2009, 11:15 AM
I'd kick my dog.

Now that was funny right there. :lol:

I'd go down to Dove Valley and puke on McDoogie's desk.

broncofaninfla
05-20-2009, 11:15 AM
I wouldn't want him here because of our current offensive system, not the dog fighting issue. Vick has paid his debt and like everyone else who has paid his debt, deserves a second chance.

GEM
05-20-2009, 11:16 AM
I figure he's not going to try to come back until next season but if Orton and Simms were both flops and we could get Vick for a low price, I would jump all over all it.

He's paid his debt to society for what he did, why shouldn't he get a second chance? He knows fully well that one more slipup would end his NFL career forever so do you guys really think he's going to go right back to dogfighting now that he's out of jail? I don't think he's that stupid.

Ya would have thought that a guy with everything wouldn't have done it in the first place. :shrugs:

McKeough
05-20-2009, 11:17 AM
I would stop following this football team.

sacmar
05-20-2009, 11:21 AM
I find it absolutly hillarious that people hate vick so much. You realize there are guys in the nfl that have beat thier wives, popped caps at people, cheated, lied, use narcotics etc...yet everyone is crying more about dogs than the welfare of people. Vick has been locked up and what on the dog front has changed. Everyone getting a tear to their eye everytime they think about it what have you done to save any of them. Donated to the spca, reported illegal dog fights (which you can find online and in newsletters yet vick was the main and only one...geez), or better yet went and adopted any of these pit we all care about so much, this country is supposidly so broke but they can spend millions to catch and prosectute vick ??? I like dogs and all but never as much as a person once we are all protected then i'll worry about dogs....yea the same one's people are leaving tied up in the back yard of thier newly bank owned houses like crazy....oh but yea vick was the problem.

Bronco Bible
05-20-2009, 11:31 AM
Are you serious lol? I'm talking about the dog breed, pit bull. Vick did needless, heartless killings of the dogs and he was punished and should contribute his time until he dies helping these dogs. But couldn't the same be said about the city of Denver for the needless, heartless killing of a breed of dog (pit bull) or is it ok because it is written in law? In other words, Denver should be the last to cast a stone as far as the crime Vick did!!

Blitz how can you compare the two??? what Vick did was disgusting :coffee:

Nomad
05-20-2009, 11:47 AM
Blitz how can you compare the two??? what Vick did was disgusting :coffee:


I'm not giving Vick a free pass and what he did is disgusting but what Denver does is just as bad? It is comparable because a city has demonized a breed of dog (breed profiling)with no questions asked and kills them, whereas a man who wasn't happy with the dogs output killed them. I see no difference and the fans who live in Denver voted these idiots in who passed that law. In Vicks case, it's proven these dogs can find homes/be rehibilitated and any breed of dog can turn on someone. Unless, someone can clarify the law, isn't that a double standard that a city is able to kill without consequences! I'm sure Denver isn't the only cities that does it.

My in-laws have always had pit bulls and they've had 2 since I have known them and the dogs are a normal pet.

Dr Velcro
05-20-2009, 12:04 PM
I agree with the second chance thought, but NOT in Denver..

LOL!!!

I'm a Colts fan, lest you forget ;)

Lonestar
05-20-2009, 12:16 PM
we have no need for him, his QBing was questionable at best had he not had algee crumpler he would not not completed many passes at all.. He has wheels that is all, we have more wheels than we can use at this time..

the wildcat is a fad, nothing that will be long term for the most part it was unproductive past the first few games it was used.. a gimmick play that was all..

you may see it from time to time in the future but will not be a staple of anyones offense..

Dirk
05-20-2009, 12:18 PM
I find it absolutly hillarious that people hate vick so much. You realize there are guys in the nfl that have beat thier wives, popped caps at people, cheated, lied, use narcotics etc...yet everyone is crying more about dogs than the welfare of people. Vick has been locked up and what on the dog front has changed. Everyone getting a tear to their eye everytime they think about it what have you done to save any of them. Donated to the spca, reported illegal dog fights (which you can find online and in newsletters yet vick was the main and only one...geez), or better yet went and adopted any of these pit we all care about so much, this country is supposidly so broke but they can spend millions to catch and prosectute vick ??? I like dogs and all but never as much as a person once we are all protected then i'll worry about dogs....yea the same one's people are leaving tied up in the back yard of thier newly bank owned houses like crazy....oh but yea vick was the problem.

Serious? :rolleyes:

What Vick did was not only kill the dogs but tortured them. It IS illegal, period. Just because it was Vick, it was in all the papers and media. Many people get arrested for conducting dog fights. He was a "high roller" when it came to dog fights. So yes, he deserved to be caught and pay for his crimes. Period.

It doesn't matter who it is, they all deserve the same fate. But again, because he is a high profile person, it got publisized heavily.

He deserves a second chance no doubt, but NOT with the Broncos...he doesn't "fit" the system. :coffee:

Dirk
05-20-2009, 12:20 PM
LOL!!!

I'm a Colts fan, lest you forget ;)

:tsk:

Dr Velcro
05-20-2009, 12:21 PM
:tsk:

Well, seriously....

WHO would ask that kind of question here?

LOL!!!!!

Sarcasm......it fits me well.

Dirk
05-20-2009, 12:22 PM
Well, seriously....

WHO would ask that kind of question here?

LOL!!!!!

Sarcasm......it fits me well.


I see that! :laugh:

Rick
05-20-2009, 12:25 PM
After thinking on it I would say no. If this was still a bootleg offense then yes I would say ok but not with the pocket offense we emply now.

As far as the dog fighting thing, I think it was awful but he has paid for his crime. Hell IMO we have had presidents lately do far worse then Vic did and people still call themselves Americans...leave the football team beacuse of Vic?

In-com-plete
05-20-2009, 12:37 PM
The direction this team appears to be heading in, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we signed Vick.

Marcus to.

BroncoWave
05-20-2009, 01:50 PM
Ya would have thought that a guy with everything wouldn't have done it in the first place. :shrugs:

You'd think a guy with everything would quit beating his girlfriend every six months but I don't see you trying to run Marshall out of town.

BroncoTech
05-20-2009, 01:51 PM
You'd think a guy with everything would quit beating his girlfriend every six months but I don't see you trying to run Marshall out of town.

But dog is man's best friend, girlfriends are nothing but trouble, we all know that.

I'd say if he can bulk up to 320 and play nose tackle for another team and excels then maybe we can look at him. Seriously who could even consider this guy as the face of the franchise? He may in fact deserve a second chance, but that's what Buffalo and Oakland are for. He has about the same chances of landing here as Slowik has returning.

Lonestar
05-20-2009, 01:55 PM
I'd say if he can bulk up to 320 and play nose tackle for another team and excels then maybe we can look at him. Seriously who could even consider this guy as the face of the franchise? He may in fact deserve a second chance, but that's what Buffalo and Oakland are for. He has about the same chances of landing here as Slowik has returning.

Good thought he could be the wildcat in OAK offense.. slim, quick and fatty in the same BACKfield could be hard to contain..

BroncoWave
05-20-2009, 01:55 PM
I'd say if he can bulk up to 320 and play nose tackle for another team and excels then maybe we can look at him. Seriously who could even consider this guy as the face of the franchise? He may in fact deserve a second chance, but that's what Buffalo and Oakland are for. He has about the same chances of landing here as Slowik has returning.

What makes you think teams would be considering him as their face of the franchise? I doubt anyone is going to sign him to come in and be their star QB. He's probably going to come back as a Kordell Stewart type player. Someone who can play a little QB from time to time but also run a few plays a game as a RB or WR. I don't see anyone signing him to be their star QB.

BroncoNut
05-20-2009, 01:57 PM
I don't know.

Lonestar
05-20-2009, 02:03 PM
I don't know.


I think your correct there many be some franchise that is desperate to put asses in seats, and he does have a name and he is an exciting player ..

BroncoTech
05-20-2009, 02:18 PM
Oh my god it just dawned on me the key to a good wildcat (aka single wing) offense is a strong long snapper. Oh god why did I have to think of this.

T.K.O.
05-20-2009, 02:42 PM
the reality of the whole situation is even if you agree that vick paid his debt to society (which i do),there is no way he will be forgiven by the p.e.t.a. people.im all for animal rights and have owned dogs all my life and cared for them like family,so dont torch me.
i just cant see a team (even oakland) that wants the type of negative press that demonstrations and picketers that hiring vick in any capacity would bring.
its almost enough to make me feel sorry for him because he is a gifted athlete who,s career seems to be over before its time....almost

Lonestar
05-20-2009, 02:45 PM
the reality of the whole situation is even if you agree that vick paid his debt to society (which i do),there is no way he will be forgiven by the p.e.t.a. people.im all for animal rights and have owned dogs all my life and cared for them like family,so dont torch me.
i just cant see a team (even oakland) that wants the type of negative press that demonstrations and picketers that hiring vick in any capacity would bring.
its almost enough to make me feel sorry for him because he is a gifted athlete who,s career seems to be over before its time....almost


While there are a lot of Peta folks in CA.. I do not see them accomplishing much in or around the black hole, if anything getting their asses kicked.. and we all know that al loves speed..

BroncoNut
05-20-2009, 02:46 PM
the reality of the whole situation is even if you agree that vick paid his debt to society (which i do),there is no way he will be forgiven by the p.e.t.a. people.im all for animal rights and have owned dogs all my life and cared for them like family,so dont torch me.
i just cant see a team (even oakland) that wants the type of negative press that demonstrations and picketers that hiring vick in any capacity would bring.
its almost enough to make me feel sorry for him because he is a gifted athlete who,s career seems to be over before its time....almost

what about an athlete that uses coumadin for a rat problem? is that cruel?

ps., I think what Vick did was cruel

topscribe
05-20-2009, 02:53 PM
Iif they bring Vick in, just rename our team to the Denver Rehabs.

Vick should fit right in with the others . . .

-----

BroncoNut
05-20-2009, 03:10 PM
I believe in redemption. how much more does Mike owe? Has he, in his heart acknowledged his actions as wrong?

I know I am preaching to the choir because each and everyone of you are so beautiful and perfect, but it is really between him and God where the issue lies at this point.

Hawgdriver
05-20-2009, 03:11 PM
Then it would be time for a new team until he left.

underrated29
05-20-2009, 03:31 PM
i dont think in denver the kill the dogs on sight. infact i am sure that they dont. i know its illegal to have one within city limits, unless you have been grandfathered in......After that i dont know, and really i dont care.

i see them in littleton all the time, but then again, littleton is not denver.

Davii
05-20-2009, 04:10 PM
I would quit watching football. Or at the very least i'd make sure the Broncos didn't get a dime of my money until they canned the thug POS.

sacmar
05-20-2009, 04:26 PM
....also remember while some jerk off's are out there killing dogs, there are those out there hurting people. Where we find the time to hunt down dog fighters with all the real crime out there is beyond me. If as much money, time,and emotion was put into protecting people maybe there would have been an officer free to prevent darrent williams from getting shot. Be careful how quick you are to call someone a "thug" only knowing what you know about a person from T.V. some called our boy (williams) one too. People act like the N.F.L. should be full of church go'ers and cub scouts. Print out a list of the crimes commited and not to mention the one's being commited as we speak and rate what vick did against what others have done in the leauge. These guys are here to play football, being an example and raising your kids is your own job. As long as he shows up for practice and games and whatever meetings of course the guy should be able to play oh wait i forgot we're talking about dog abuse maybe we should have him register like a sex offender and work in the back of denny's lord knows the crimes are equal. I've seen guys get less time, attention, and public hate for doing god knows what to a child than vick is getting for what he did to an animal. Sad really. Now real quick name that girl we all vowed to keep in our prayers that got kidnapped and killed last week....already forgot her name didnt' you, but the media seems to keep us reminded of vick.

Requiem / The Dagda
05-20-2009, 04:28 PM
I'd eat a box of Alpo.

bullis26
05-20-2009, 04:29 PM
give the guy a second chance

topscribe
05-20-2009, 04:30 PM
give the guy a second chance

Yes, I fully believe in a second chance . . .



. . . somewhere else . . .



-----

BroncoWave
05-20-2009, 04:33 PM
I would quit watching football. Or at the very least i'd make sure the Broncos didn't get a dime of my money until they canned the thug POS.

Did you sit on this same moral pedestal and not give any of your money to the team when they signed Travis Henry? Or is it not as big a deal what he did to those 9 women who he left as single mothers? Denver has signed many a thug POS in their history. Not sure why this one would suddenly drive so many fans away.

weazel
05-20-2009, 04:39 PM
I hate that jackass...and I hope that this would never happen, but after the the last 4 or 5 months, who can tell anymore?

That being said, I think it would be hard for me to watch a Bronco game.

no need to worry, it would not happen. Vick doesn't fit the scheme...

I just hope he moves near me, we havea bunch of stray's that need to be "taken care of"

Benetto
05-20-2009, 04:58 PM
Dog fighting is the only thing Vick was prosecuted for. Only Vick and god know about the rest of the harmful stuff he has done to others...
Someone with a superman tattoo on his hand must think he can do and say whatever he wants, whenever he wants...Its not only the Dogfighting Sac, its his whole demeanor.

Buff
05-20-2009, 05:13 PM
I would be pissed because he doesn't fit in the current offensive system and because it would generate a media firestorm... But I couldn't care less about the dogfighting conviction. I've rooted for worse criminals than him.

Broncospsycho77
05-20-2009, 05:18 PM
Badly.

Slick
05-20-2009, 05:28 PM
....also remember while some jerk off's are out there killing dogs, there are those out there hurting people. Where we find the time to hunt down dog fighters with all the real crime out there is beyond me. If as much money, time,and emotion was put into protecting people maybe there would have been an officer free to prevent darrent williams from getting shot. Be careful how quick you are to call someone a "thug" only knowing what you know about a person from T.V. some called our boy (williams) one too. People act like the N.F.L. should be full of church go'ers and cub scouts. Print out a list of the crimes commited and not to mention the one's being commited as we speak and rate what vick did against what others have done in the leauge. These guys are here to play football, being an example and raising your kids is your own job. As long as he shows up for practice and games and whatever meetings of course the guy should be able to play oh wait i forgot we're talking about dog abuse maybe we should have him register like a sex offender and work in the back of denny's lord knows the crimes are equal. I've seen guys get less time, attention, and public hate for doing god knows what to a child than vick is getting for what he did to an animal. Sad really. Now real quick name that girl we all vowed to keep in our prayers that got kidnapped and killed last week....already forgot her name didnt' you, but the media seems to keep us reminded of vick.

The enter button is your friend.

The guy is a convicted felon and he's a Pro athlete. It comes with the territory. I think he deserves a chance to redeem himself. He lives in the country of second, third and fourth chances. I don't wish him ill will, but the criticism of his actions are not without merit.

The other point you tried to make, I think I get, but that's not going to change. The big eyeball in the sky will continue to tell many people how to think.

sneakers
05-20-2009, 05:46 PM
Did you sit on this same moral pedestal and not give any of your money to the team when they signed Travis Henry? Or is it not as big a deal what he did to those 9 women who he left as single mothers? Denver has signed many a thug POS in their history. Not sure why this one would suddenly drive so many fans away.

Because Henry didn't pit those children together in a fight to the death, or electrocute them if they didn't do well in school.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 06:15 PM
Because Henry didn't pit those children together in a fight to the death, or electrocute them if they didn't do well in school.

No, even better, he just freakin' ignored them and didn't pay child support.

Messed up dog vs. Messed up human?

I'll take the messed up dog.

What Henry has done to his children is worse than what Vick did to the animals. No one will convince otherwise, so sorry...

Vick was made an example of. He bankrolled this operation, probably didn't even know what he was getting into when his cousin asked for the money, then got in too deep and got screwed. He was the high profile guy, the others squealed and he got the brunt of the punishment. Vick got a raw deal. He's not innocent by any means, and he's still a thug, but the man has paid his debt to society, and as long as he doesn't do it again, he's a freak of nature, and I wouldn't mind seeing him play for Denver ON THE FIELD. Off the field, he's going to be a circus, and this team doesn't need that right now.

BroncoWave
05-20-2009, 06:49 PM
Because Henry didn't pit those children together in a fight to the death, or electrocute them if they didn't do well in school.

I'm not arguing which is worse (although if that was the argument I'd definitely say Henry). I'm arguing that it's hypocritical to threaten to revoke your support for the team if they sign Vick if you didn't do the same when they signed Henry. I guess it's ok for someone to abandon and force terrible emotional and financial strain on 18 different people but god forbid they do anything to an animal.

Benetto
05-20-2009, 07:34 PM
Are you all Blind? Do you all really think all Vick did was Kill and torture dogs?

If he is the type of person to do that for sport, what else is a person like him capable of doing without getting caught? Remember his stance when first approached about it by the media?
"Im' michael Vick, everywhere I go and what I do people will have my back"...Someone like that does not learn remorse after a handful of months...he is just flat out broke, and needs to make a ton of money again to pay back creditors and such. Keep him out!!


Henry too for that matter.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 07:37 PM
Are you all Blind? Do you all really think all Vick did was Kill and torture dogs?

If he is the type of person to do that for sport, what else is a person like him capable of doing without getting caught? Remember his stance when first approached about it by the media?
"Im' michael Vick, everywhere I go and what I do people will have my back"...Someone like that does not learn remorse after a handful of months...he is just flat out broke, and needs to make a ton of money again to pay back creditors and such. Keep him out!!


Henry too for that matter.

Well, I'll give him his second chance.

He spent 18 months in a federal, pound-you-in-the-ass prison, so I think he deserves at least that.

And personally, WTF else do you think he did Ben? Murder? Oh, wait, that was Leonard Little. Traffic guns? Oh, wait, that's Tank Johnson.

Those dip shits are in the league, why is there a double standard for Vick?

Benetto
05-20-2009, 07:39 PM
Well, I'll give him his second chance.

He spent 18 months in a federal, pound-you-in-the-ass prison, so I think he deserves at least that.

And personally, WTF else do you think he did Ben? Murder? Oh, wait, that was Leonard Little. Traffic guns? Oh, wait, that's Tank Johnson.

Those dip shits are in the league, why is there a double standard for Vick?


Those mother lovers don't deserve it either.

Vick is a scum bag...He was raised that way..IE Marcus.

There is no double standard...I am a advocate of kicking mother ******s out of the league when they play devil.

Benetto
05-20-2009, 07:40 PM
BTW, I don't know what he did...Only him and the devil know....But Dog killing and torturing is not it, that I am sure of.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 07:41 PM
Those mother lovers don't deserve it either.

Vick is a scum bag...He was raised that way..IE Marcus.

There is no double standard...I am a advocate of kicking mother ******s out of the league when they play devil.

He did his time. I'll let him have his second chance, and I hope the league does too. If he can show that he's still capable of doing what he did, I just don't understand why people think the league shouldn't let him.

NOW...if no one wants to hire him, that's a different story. BUT, if Goodell says no to him, then he's getting a raw deal.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 07:42 PM
BTW, I don't know what he did...Only him and the devil know....But Dog killing and torturing is not it, that I am sure of.

Looking for the worst in people, I see...

Benetto
05-20-2009, 07:45 PM
Looking for the worst in people, I see...

When they prove what type of person they are, a human being can't help NOT to.

Kapaibro
05-20-2009, 07:47 PM
Please note that Vick is only serving time for the Funding of illegal activites that cross state lines.

He will NOT serve anytime for the actual dog fighting, or for the toture of the dogs he killed.

That is NOT serving the time for the crimes he committed. That is getting off lightly.

Any regular Joe Bloggs would be doing 3-5 for the funding, another 2-5 for participating in the fighting, and another 2-5 for the cruelty to animals.

Vick is serving 23 months.

Benetto
05-20-2009, 07:49 PM
Please note that Vick is only serving time for the Funding of illegal activites that cross state lines.

He will NOT serve anytime for the actual dog fighting, or for the toture of the dogs he killed.

That is NOT serving the time for the crimes he committed. That is getting off lightly.

Any regular Joe Bloggs would be doing 3-5 for the funding, another 2-5 for participating in the fighting, and another 2-5 for the cruelty to animals.

Vick is serving 23 months.


Thats a double standard Moe...

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 07:53 PM
Thats a double standard Moe...

Not really.

They tried to prove he killed dogs. It was proven in a court of law that he didn't. So he served his time.

Notice the people who admitted killing the dogs, you know, the people ACTUALLY involved in the dog ring, didn't serve any time.

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:00 PM
Not really.

They tried to prove he killed dogs. It was proven in a court of law that he didn't. So he served his time.

Notice the people who admitted killing the dogs, you know, the people ACTUALLY involved in the dog ring, didn't serve any time.

He admitted to killing and torturing as a plee bargin....to drop that and serve for something else.

Double standard is he got 23 months because he is a rich and famous athlete.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:01 PM
He admitted to killing and torturing as a plee bargin....to drop that and serve for something else.

Double standard is he got 23 months because he is a rich and famous athlete.

So how many months did the guys who squealed on him get?

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:04 PM
So how many months did the guys who squealed on him get?


They sqealed on him, that's why they got the short end of the stick....

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:06 PM
They sqealed on him, that's why they got the short end of the stick....

...and...

How many months in prison did they get?

When is it acceptable to give someone a second chance?

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:08 PM
No, they have video footage of him killing the dogs, but dropped the charges.

Should have locked him up for life, then...

Those idiot prosecutors...:tsk:

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:09 PM
...and...

How many months in prison did they get?

When is it acceptable to give someone a second chance?


He got a secind and third chance....


Finger to fans, and water bottle.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:09 PM
He got a secind and third chance....


Finger to fans, and water bottle.

Wow...the league wouldn't exist by your logic.

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:11 PM
Wow...the league wouldn't exist by your logic.


You asked when is second chances okay by you?


I clearly answered your question...Not said they should eliminate players when they **** up once twice thrice.

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:12 PM
Ill admit when im wrong, or out of line....Anyone can quote me if I am talking out of my ass, and Ill apologize....but trying to answer your logic regardless if you're right or wrong is just going around in circles....Im done.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:13 PM
You asked when is second chances okay by you?


I clearly answered your question...Not said they should eliminate players when they **** up once twice thrice.

Flipping off someone?

That's one strike?

The NBA wouldn't exist either.

Jake Plummer - GONE!

He had road rage once AND flipped the fans off! GONE!

Lonestar
05-20-2009, 08:13 PM
He did his time. I'll let him have his second chance, and I hope the league does too. If he can show that he's still capable of doing what he did, I just don't understand why people think the league shouldn't let him.

NOW...if no one wants to hire him, that's a different story. BUT, if Goodell says no to him, then he's getting a raw deal.


While I do not know what the time for that kind of crime is , I'm guessing he got the lighter end of the deal.. Had he been his cousin doing the same thing he'd still be in prison..

So did he do his time? technically.. Pay his debt to society only because he was Vick and not his cousin, in the strictest sense of the words, yes..

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:14 PM
Ill admit when im wrong, or out of line....Anyone can quote me if I am talking out of my ass, and Ill apologize....but trying to answer your logic regardless if you're right or wrong is just going around in circles....Im done.

Thanks for the backhanded slap.

I'd say the same about your argument.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:15 PM
While I do not know what the time for that kind of crime is , I'm guessing he got the lighter end of the deal.. Had he been his cousin doing the same thing he'd still be in prison..

So did he do his time? technically.. Pay his debt to society only because he was Vick and not his cousin, in the strictest sense of the words, yes..

Don't worry about it, I'm done.

Lock 'em up for life, because once they commit a crime, they'll never stop.

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:17 PM
Thanks for the backhanded slap.

I'd say the same about your argument.



Brothers always fight Moe.

Hawgdriver
05-20-2009, 08:18 PM
It was proven in a court of law that he didn't. So he served his time.


OJ for guvna then...

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:19 PM
Flipping off someone?

That's one strike?

The NBA wouldn't exist either.

Jake Plummer - GONE!

He had road rage once AND flipped the fans off! GONE!


He is gone..>Obviously couldn't take the heat people threw at him. but he's not broke and in debt.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:20 PM
OJ for guvna then...

If the NFL wants to put in a rule that no felons are allowed to play ever, then that's fine. That rule doesn't exist.

As far as running for Governor...it is a rule...I believe...depending on the state...Cali might be different...:D

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:20 PM
He is gone..>Obviously couldn't take the heat people threw at him. but he's not broke and in debt.

Or banned...

Lonestar
05-20-2009, 08:22 PM
Don't worry about it, I'm done.

Lock 'em up for life, because once they commit a crime, they'll never stop.

In some cases your probably correct about once your a bad guy, ..

But he got a lite sentence because of who he was.. Had he not been a high profile guy with good lawyers he would have been thrown in jail and allowed out much later than he was.. as Black guy in the south, well he is lucky that was all he got..

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:22 PM
Or banned...


he should have been for how many INT's he threw for us.

MOtorboat
05-20-2009, 08:23 PM
he should have been for how many INT's he threw for us.

What about Cutler?

:behindsofa:

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:24 PM
If the NFL wants to put in a rule that no felons are allowed to play ever, then that's fine. That rule doesn't exist.

As far as running for Governor...it is a rule...I believe...depending on the state...Cali might be different...:D


Freakin Cali...My Reg is due in July...here comes 230% increase from what I paid last year...


THANKS ARNOLD!!!

Lonestar
05-20-2009, 08:24 PM
he should have been for how many INT's he threw for us.

lets not go down this road...


:focus:

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:24 PM
what about cutler?

:behindsofa:


ban him too!!

Benetto
05-20-2009, 08:24 PM
Back to topic...Sorry...

Lonestar
05-20-2009, 08:25 PM
freakin cali...my reg is due in july...here comes 230% increase from what i paid last year...


Thanks unions, social programs!!

edited for accuracy..

CrazyHorse
05-20-2009, 09:55 PM
Well he is better than Orton and Simms...
He could also help out the Vikings if they don't get Favre...

Nature Boy
05-21-2009, 01:08 AM
The WildCat Formation in Denver would be a pleasant sight. McDummy would be able to add quite a few plays into his arsenal but it'll never happen. McDummy has already created quite a stir with the whole Cutler fiasco. I don't think he needs anymore spot lights his way.

Did I mention that McDumbass will be run out of town in less that 2 seasons?

.

Dirk
05-21-2009, 05:41 AM
The WildCat Formation in Denver would be a pleasant sight. McDummy would be able to add quite a few plays into his arsenal but it'll never happen. McDummy has already created quite a stir with the whole Cutler fiasco. I don't think he needs anymore spot lights his way.

Did I mention that McDumbass will be run out of town in less that 2 seasons?

.

:tsk:

Dirk
05-21-2009, 05:48 AM
People deserve a 2nd chance. That is for sure. If Vick really understands why this was wrong and is really going to help P.E.T.A. like he says. Then the league should give him his shot. (however I believe he is only going to say and do what he has to in order to get back into the league because he is broke and owes a butt load of money)

How would I react? Which was the main question of this thread. And the obvious answer to that question is, I would be pissed. He doesn't fit the system.

On a side note, I believe there is a total double standard and there always has been for those that are rich and/or famous. Money definately talks.....

broncofanatic1987
05-21-2009, 12:44 PM
I hate that jackass...and I hope that this would never happen, but after the the last 4 or 5 months, who can tell anymore?

That being said, I think it would be hard for me to watch a Bronco game.

Vick would never be signed by the Broncos because he's not the kind of quarterback McDaniels wants, so this "what if" game almost seems laughable.

That being said, if Vick were signed by the Broncos, I would react the same way I would react if someone magically gave O.J. Simpson his 25 year old body back, let him out of prison, and he signed with the Broncos....GO BRONCOS!!!!!!

Lonestar
05-21-2009, 12:47 PM
Vick would never be signed by the Broncos because he's not the kind of quarterback McDaniels wants, so this "what if" game almost seems laughable.

That being said, if Vick were signed by the Broncos, I would react the same way I would react if someone magically gave O.J. Simpson his 25 year old body back, let him out of prison, and he signed with the Broncos....GO BRONCOS!!!!!!



this is the key Josh wants a QB that can think, read defenses, and make Decisions at the LOS. Someone that has the ability to play with in a controlled offense..

vick could probably be a decent RB, H back type but I'm guessing he want the glory
position of QB.. and some moron owner out there will hire him because he will put butts in the empty seats he has..

BroncoNut
05-21-2009, 12:53 PM
It hurts to see Mo and Benetto going at each other like this.

omahacolt
05-21-2009, 06:39 PM
why would anyone want him? he goes to jail and all of a sudded atlanta has competent wrs?


the guy sucks as a qb

BroncoWave
05-21-2009, 06:50 PM
;)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/Warbirdz7/vick.jpg

Davii
05-21-2009, 10:04 PM
....also remember while some jerk off's are out there killing dogs, there are those out there hurting people. Where we find the time to hunt down dog fighters with all the real crime out there is beyond me. If as much money, time,and emotion was put into protecting people maybe there would have been an officer free to prevent darrent williams from getting shot. Be careful how quick you are to call someone a "thug" only knowing what you know about a person from T.V. some called our boy (williams) one too. People act like the N.F.L. should be full of church go'ers and cub scouts. Print out a list of the crimes commited and not to mention the one's being commited as we speak and rate what vick did against what others have done in the leauge. These guys are here to play football, being an example and raising your kids is your own job. As long as he shows up for practice and games and whatever meetings of course the guy should be able to play oh wait i forgot we're talking about dog abuse maybe we should have him register like a sex offender and work in the back of denny's lord knows the crimes are equal. I've seen guys get less time, attention, and public hate for doing god knows what to a child than vick is getting for what he did to an animal. Sad really. Now real quick name that girl we all vowed to keep in our prayers that got kidnapped and killed last week....already forgot her name didnt' you, but the media seems to keep us reminded of vick.

Don't need a reminder for Vick. If someone wants to commit a crime they will, no matter how many cops were digging up tortured dog remains on Vick's properties. Prosecuting Vick did not let any other crime happen because of it. That's just ridiculous to even think such a thing.

Punishment for offenders is the only method to prevent crime.

Besides, he sucks. Amazing how much better Atl is without him.

Michael Vick, the thug, does not deserve to be in the NFL. Goodell should not reward his behavior by making him a role model once again.

I bet you're one of the people that has a problem with those that planned the killing of, and desired to kill many many more Americans being waterboarded... Yet the wholesale torture and slaughter of animals whose only crime was being born should be forgotten about?

Interesting.

MOtorboat
05-21-2009, 10:06 PM
Don't need a reminder for Vick. If someone wants to committ a crime they will. Prosecuting Vick did not let any other crime happen because of it. That's just ridiculous to even think such a thing.

Punishment for offenders is the only method to prevent crime.

Michael Vick, the thug, does not deserve to be in the NFL. Goodell should not reward his behavior by making him a role model once again.

What about Leonard Little?

He killed someone.

What about Pacman Jones?

Tank Johnson?

Chris Henry?

Why is Vick singled out?

Davii
05-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Did you sit on this same moral pedestal and not give any of your money to the team when they signed Travis Henry? Or is it not as big a deal what he did to those 9 women who he left as single mothers? Denver has signed many a thug POS in their history. Not sure why this one would suddenly drive so many fans away.

It's not illegal to have 9 kids with 9 different women. It's not illegal to leave them. It's not illegal to leave them as single mothers.

Is it morally reprehensible? Yep. But it's not illegal, nor a felony.

Had he tortured and killed them, yes, I would've taken the same moral stand.

You're trying to compare apples to steak. Doesn't work.

MOtorboat
05-21-2009, 10:13 PM
It's not illegal to have 9 kids with 9 different women. It's not illegal to leave them. It's not illegal to leave them as single mothers.

It is illegal to not support them...but yeah...whatever...:rolleyes:

Like I said, and I will stand by, I'll take the screwed up dogs over the screwed up kids every day of the week, and on Sundays.

Davii
05-21-2009, 10:24 PM
What about Leonard Little?

He killed someone.

What about Pacman Jones?

Tank Johnson?

Chris Henry?

Why is Vick singled out?

The Rams don't get any of my money. Little shouldn't have been allowed back.

The Cowboys gave me another reason to hate their franchise when they picked up Adam Jones. Goodell should not have allowed him back. They also do not receive my money.

Tank Johnson was convicted of misdemeanors for illegal firearms possession. See earlier comment about the Cowboys, the Bengals are already well known as being a place for criminals and they also don't get my money. He should also be gone from the NFL.

Chris Henry - Again, misdemeanor convictions. Again, Bengals. Again, shouldn't be there.

Bottom line - Playing a game for millions of dollars and being a role model is privelige, not a right. Especially while the NFL enjoys anti trust protection. Repeated criminal conduct, or criminal conduct that is felonious in nature should not be tolerated of any member of the NFL, player, coach, or otherwise.

Davii
05-21-2009, 10:26 PM
It is illegal to not support them...but yeah...whatever...:rolleyes:

Like I said, and I will stand by, I'll take the screwed up dogs over the screwed up kids every day of the week, and on Sundays.

Did the kids get tortured and killed? Did Travis Henry smack them off the sidewalk until they died?

Has Henry not paid the back child support due to this point? Just curious. I mean, it's public record....

And again, apples to steak. A1 doesn't go well with Granny Smith.

MOtorboat
05-21-2009, 10:27 PM
The Rams don't get any of my money. Little shouldn't have been allowed back.

The Cowboys gave me another reason to hate their franchise when they picked up Adam Jones. Goodell should not have allowed him back. They also do not receive my money.

Tank Johnson was convicted of misdemeanors for illegal firearms possession. See earlier comment about the Cowboys, the Bengals are already well known as being a place for criminals and they also don't get my money. He should also be gone from the NFL.

Chris Henry - Again, misdemeanor convictions. Again, Bengals. Again, shouldn't be there.

Bottom line - Playing a game for millions of dollars and being a role model is privelige, not a right. Especially while the NFL enjoys anti trust protection. Repeated criminal conduct, or criminal conduct that is felonious in nature should not be tolerated of any member of the NFL, player, coach, or otherwise.

In this case, I will expect you never to watch or buy anything NFL related. And that's your choice.

Likewise...I hope that you don't pay your license plate fees for your cars, as that supports former felons too.

Davii
05-21-2009, 10:33 PM
In this case, I will expect you never to watch or buy anything NFL related. And that's your choice.

Likewise...I hope that you don't pay your license plate fees for your cars, as that supports former felons too.

The team I watch, to my knowledge, does not have any convicted felons on the roster.

I have to pay for my vehicle registration, it's the law.

Nice strawman argument though.

How do you like your steak MO?

Are you going to make a coherent argument or continue to compare the current discussion to crimes, people, and license plates that aren't comparable?

At this point I would expect you to hire Osama Bin Laden to cut your lawn and scrub your toilet.

He deserves a second chance too doesn't he?

Wait, the two aren't comparable. I should stop there before I pull more of your games.

MOtorboat
05-21-2009, 10:43 PM
The team I watch, to my knowledge, does not have any convicted felons on the roster.

I have to pay for my vehicle registration, it's the law.

Nice strawman argument though.

How do you like your steak MO?

Are you going to make a coherent argument or continue to compare the current discussion to crimes, people, and license plates that aren't comparable?

At this point I would expect you to hire Osama Bin Laden to cut your lawn and scrub your toilet.

He deserves a second chance too doesn't he?

Wait, the two aren't comparable. I should stop there before I pull more of your games.

So Vick = Osama Bin Laden?

Nice...

But I agree, he's a scumbag who doesn't deserve a life, or the opportunity to have a life. He should have received life.

Let's shit on ALL convicted felons. They are scumbags.

MOtorboat
05-21-2009, 10:47 PM
I should stop there before I pull more of your games.

No, go ahead...tell me what my "games" are.

I make my argument, a solid argument at that, and really don't appreciate this bullshit.

BroncoWave
05-21-2009, 11:10 PM
It's not illegal to have 9 kids with 9 different women. It's not illegal to leave them. It's not illegal to leave them as single mothers.

Is it morally reprehensible? Yep. But it's not illegal, nor a felony.

Had he tortured and killed them, yes, I would've taken the same moral stand.

You're trying to compare apples to steak. Doesn't work.

So dogs are more important than humans. Gotcha!

Davii
05-21-2009, 11:13 PM
No, go ahead...tell me what my "games" are.

I make my argument, a solid argument at that, and really don't appreciate this bullshit.

Your game is trying to make arguments by comparing things that have nothing to do with each other.

For example: Comparing Michael Vick's crimes with vehicle registration. That's not a logical argument. It's a strawman.

Davii
05-21-2009, 11:15 PM
So dogs are more important than humans. Gotcha!

I never said that.

What crime was Travis Henry convicted of?

What life did Travis Henry take?

If you can answer either one of those questions then I might care what you have to say.

Until then, I would appreciate it if you could actually attempt to refute my argument, rather than what you would like my argument to be.

Thanks.

Besides the fact that trying to use Travis Henry to refute my argument is ignoring my initial post in this thread in the first place. Take note of the following:


until they canned the thug POS

BroncoWave
05-21-2009, 11:22 PM
I never said that.

What crime was Travis Henry convicted of?

What life did Travis Henry take?

If you can answer either one of those questions then I might care what you have to say.

Until then, I would appreciate it if you could actually attempt to refute my argument, rather than what you would like my argument to be.

Thanks.

Besides the fact that trying to use Travis Henry to refute my argument is ignoring my initial post in this thread in the first place. Take note of the following:

Let's look at it from this point of view. Would you rather someone knock up, abandon, and not pay child support to your sister (don't know if you have one or not, let's just say you do for arguments sake) or would you rather them kill one of your dogs. I mean seriously. Just because one is illegal and the other isn't doesn't necessarily mean it's so much worse. I am a huge dog lover but doing something like that to a human is worse than killing a dog IMO. Or since we're on this track, what about Brandon Marshall? Is it ok to you that he can't keep from beating his girlfriend every six months? I mean, as long as he's not torturing and murdering her it's A OK right?

Davii
05-21-2009, 11:38 PM
Let's look at it from this point of view. Would you rather someone knock up, abandon, and not pay child support to your sister (don't know if you have one or not, let's just say you do for arguments sake) or would you rather them kill one of your dogs. I mean seriously. Just because one is illegal and the other isn't doesn't necessarily mean it's so much worse. I am a huge dog lover but doing something like that to a human is worse than killing a dog IMO. Or since we're on this track, what about Brandon Marshall? Is it ok to you that he can't keep from beating his girlfriend every six months? I mean, as long as he's not torturing and murdering her it's A OK right?

Travis Henry is N/A. They canned the POS. Besides, you're trying to compare things that don't compare. He didn't do anything against the laws of this land. Being immoral isn't illegal. You should see that every day in NOLA.

Research my posts on Brandon and you'll see how I feel about his transgressions. In short, he hasn't been convicted of beating his gf, however, he is IMO on the line of whether he should be kicked out of the NFL.

BroncoWave
05-21-2009, 11:44 PM
Travis Henry is N/A. They canned the POS. Besides, you're trying to compare things that don't compare. He didn't do anything against the laws of this land. Being immoral isn't illegal. You should see that every day in NOLA.

You're right, I do see plenty of immoral things in New Orleans, but these specific acts done by Henry, just because they aren't illegal, doesn't mean that they aren't worse acts that killing dogs. Running a stop sign is also illegal. Are people who run stop signs worse people than Henry because those actions are illegal and what Henry did isn't? Just because what Henry did isn't a felony doesn't make him any less of a thug POS than Vick. That is why I bring up Henry, because I think it's hypocritical so say you'd revoke financial support over signing Vick but not over Henry.

And yes, Denver did can the thug POS, but they knew full well when they signed him about those actions along with knowledge of some of his drug use.

Davii
05-22-2009, 12:00 AM
You're right, I do see plenty of immoral things in New Orleans, but these specific acts done by Henry, just because they aren't illegal, doesn't mean that they aren't worse acts that killing dogs. Running a stop sign is also illegal. Are people who run stop signs worse people than Henry because those actions are illegal and what Henry did isn't? Just because what Henry did isn't a felony doesn't make him any less of a thug POS than Vick. That is why I bring up Henry, because I think it's hypocritical so say you'd revoke financial support over signing Vick but not over Henry.

And yes, Denver did can the thug POS, but they knew full well when they signed him about those actions along with knowledge of some of his drug use.

Again, Henry is N/A.

We're not talking about traffic violations. We're talking felonies and multiple misdemeanors. We're talking about criminal violations, not traffic violations.
I give a rat's ass about a speeding ticket or a failure to yield ticket.

Should NFL players not be held to at least an approximate standard of conduct commensurate with what is expected of, say, our military?

Why should someone be kicked out of the military for a 2nd DUI and not allowed to re-enlist for a first when Michael Vick can torture and kill dogs and have people argue he should be allowed to make millions of dollars while under protection from the government of the US? (Anti trust legislation)

Why should cops be kicked off the force for DUIs?
Why should a DMV cubicle hobbit be canned for smoking pot?
Etc.
Etc.

The NFL enjoys the benefits of anti trust legislation which is why you saw Congress investigating MLB. They are responsible to the government as part of that legislation that allows them to conduct their business. This means they are responsible to the taxpayers of this nation. They should not be allowed the privelige of the NFL if convicted of a felony or multiple misdemeanors.

Period.

Traffic violations and moral transgressions not breaking any laws need not apply.

BroncoWave
05-22-2009, 12:14 AM
Again, Henry is N/A.

We're not talking about traffic violations. We're talking felonies and multiple misdemeanors. We're talking about criminal violations, not traffic violations.
I give a rat's ass about a speeding ticket or a failure to yield ticket.

Should NFL players not be held to at least an approximate standard of conduct commensurate with what is expected of, say, our military?

Why should someone be kicked out of the military for a 2nd DUI and not allowed to re-enlist for a first when Michael Vick can torture and kill dogs and have people argue he should be allowed to make millions of dollars while under protection from the government of the US? (Anti trust legislation)

Why should cops be kicked off the force for DUIs?
Why should a DMV cubicle hobbit be canned for smoking pot?
Etc.
Etc.

The NFL enjoys the benefits of anti trust legislation which is why you saw Congress investigating MLB. They are responsible to the government as part of that legislation that allows them to conduct their business. This means they are responsible to the taxpayers of this nation. They should not be allowed the privelige of the NFL if convicted of a felony or multiple misdemeanors.

Period.

Traffic violations and moral transgressions not breaking any laws need not apply.

Apples and oranges. Cops and military personnel are responsible for defending our people and our country. NFL players are entertainers playing a game. No way they should be held to the same standard.

Davii
05-22-2009, 12:44 AM
Apples and oranges. Cops and military personnel are responsible for defending our people and our country. NFL players are entertainers playing a game. No way they should be held to the same standard.

They receive special protection from the government, apples to apples.

Anyone can play football. They can play football in most prisons if they desire. The NFL carries out their business in teh fashion they do only because of anti trust legislation extended to the NFL.

So sure, Vick should get another chance. Let him play pick up games every Sunday in the dirt lot behind Sav-A-Center, that doesn't involve protection from the government.

So, strawman arguments are fine for you, but i'm not to bring them up.... noted.

Timmy!
05-22-2009, 12:45 AM
How did this thread get to 9 pages?

Davii
05-22-2009, 12:47 AM
How did this thread get to 9 pages?

People get passionate when dicussing fecal matter.

Hawgdriver
05-22-2009, 12:50 AM
A1 doesn't go well with Granny Smith.

thanks for that...:mr.yuk:

Davii
05-22-2009, 12:50 AM
thanks for that...:mr.yuk:

Just trying to do my part for your pallete! :D

CrazyHorse
05-22-2009, 08:12 PM
;)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/Warbirdz7/vick.jpg

Vick would look good in that.

slim
05-22-2009, 08:16 PM
Why would we sign Vick? We already have 10 RB's on the roster.

Lonestar
05-22-2009, 08:29 PM
Why would we sign Vick? We already have 10 RB's on the roster.

need someone to take care of the guard dogs at dove valley..

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 01:16 PM
By Drew Sharp Detroit Free Press
Saturday, May 23, 2009

We're a forgiving people, just not a forgetful one.



There never will be a clean slate for Michael Vick, nor should there be. His apologists equate his release from federal prison this week to washing away the stains of his heinous transgressions. Punitive debt paid, he's somehow owed the opportunity to continue his high life as it was before the Feds exposed his sordid sub-life.

Think again.

Vick doesn't walk out of prison a football player. He leaves a convicted felon.

Vick has a right to make a living, but playing in the NFL remains a privilege. Vick has the right to prove that he has reformed, that he has grown intellectually and spiritually. But the NFL isn't bound to provide him with that platform.

Reinstating Vick to the NFL upon completion of his two-month house arrest in July would be an ill-advised move for the league.

Commissioner Roger Goodell should continue Vick's suspension for another year.

If Vick truly appreciates all he has lost, he should prove it now that he's out of jail. Let him spend another year as an average layman earning modest wages, trying to make monthly ends meet. Test his tenacity in maintaining his football conditioning while working a regular 9-to-5 job. Give him a taste of what second chances are for the rest of us who don't run a 40 in 4.3 seconds or rifle a football 70 yards.

Perhaps the additional humility will wipe away the last vestige of celebrity entitlement, and Vick will emerge repentant.

His problem is that he always will be the Dog Murderer. Vick never will shake the loathsome portrait conveyed in the federal government's case, which chronicled how he and his associates choked, hanged and electrocuted defenseless pit bulls because they weren't mean enough to win dogfights.

The issue isn't the value of a human life compared to an animal. The issue is criminal intent.

NFL linebacker Leonard Little got drunk following a birthday party, got behind the wheel of a car and tragically took the life of an innocent woman in another car in 1998. Little pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter. He served 90 days in jail and resumed his professional career.

Why, you ask, should Little get another chance in the NFL while Vick "only killed dogs"? But it wasn't Little's intention to take another life when he took the wheel that night, which is why you cannot look at Vick's situation through Little's legal prism.

You cannot escape the premeditated viciousness of Vick's torturing and killing animals for a number of years under the guise of an underground business enterprise. It was no accident. It was a savagely calculated plan, and you cannot forget that. Ever.

But somehow the onus for turning the page rests predominantly on those still outraged over Vick's deeds. They should just get over it, some argue. Let the man live his new life. Let him play NFL football.

But the latter two points are mutually exclusive.

If Vick and his cadre of sycophants still measure his self-worth strictly as a football player at the outset of his new life, then he has learned nothing from the past two years. There will be no remorse for his actions, only a perceived victim's contempt for his persecutors.

Vick will have every opportunity to show that he's a new person possessing a new moral compass, but that has nothing to do with his taking another NFL snap.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/may/23/nfl-should-extend-vicks-suspension/?partner=RSS

Lonestar
05-23-2009, 01:19 PM
Michael Vick is out of prison and headed home, broke and reviled for running a vicious dogfighting ring, but hopeful for a second chance at his once-charmed life as a star NFL quarterback.

The suspended quarterback served 19 months in prison on the dogfighting conviction that capped one of the most astonishing falls in sports history -- one that stole his wealth and popularity.

"Football is on the back-burner for now," said agent Joel Segal, who negotiated Vick's 10-year, $130 million contract with the Falcons but will be asking for substantially less if his tarnished client's suspension is lifted by Goodell.

Vick, who turns 29 in June, left the federal penitentiary in Leavenworth, Kan., by car early Wednesday, undetected by hordes of reporters who had staked out the prison.

He was accompanied on the 1,200-mile ride by his fiancee, Kijafa Frink, a videographer and several members of a security team assembled by Vick's lawyers and advisers.

Vick was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison for financing a dogfighting conspiracy. He won't be released from federal custody until July 20, but his departure from Leavenworth begins a new chapter.

BroncoWave
05-23-2009, 06:44 PM
By Drew Sharp Detroit Free Press
Saturday, May 23, 2009

We're a forgiving people, just not a forgetful one.



There never will be a clean slate for Michael Vick, nor should there be. His apologists equate his release from federal prison this week to washing away the stains of his heinous transgressions. Punitive debt paid, he's somehow owed the opportunity to continue his high life as it was before the Feds exposed his sordid sub-life.

Think again.

Vick doesn't walk out of prison a football player. He leaves a convicted felon.

Vick has a right to make a living, but playing in the NFL remains a privilege. Vick has the right to prove that he has reformed, that he has grown intellectually and spiritually. But the NFL isn't bound to provide him with that platform.

Reinstating Vick to the NFL upon completion of his two-month house arrest in July would be an ill-advised move for the league.

Commissioner Roger Goodell should continue Vick's suspension for another year.

If Vick truly appreciates all he has lost, he should prove it now that he's out of jail. Let him spend another year as an average layman earning modest wages, trying to make monthly ends meet. Test his tenacity in maintaining his football conditioning while working a regular 9-to-5 job. Give him a taste of what second chances are for the rest of us who don't run a 40 in 4.3 seconds or rifle a football 70 yards.

Perhaps the additional humility will wipe away the last vestige of celebrity entitlement, and Vick will emerge repentant.

His problem is that he always will be the Dog Murderer. Vick never will shake the loathsome portrait conveyed in the federal government's case, which chronicled how he and his associates choked, hanged and electrocuted defenseless pit bulls because they weren't mean enough to win dogfights.

The issue isn't the value of a human life compared to an animal. The issue is criminal intent.

NFL linebacker Leonard Little got drunk following a birthday party, got behind the wheel of a car and tragically took the life of an innocent woman in another car in 1998. Little pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter. He served 90 days in jail and resumed his professional career.

Why, you ask, should Little get another chance in the NFL while Vick "only killed dogs"? But it wasn't Little's intention to take another life when he took the wheel that night, which is why you cannot look at Vick's situation through Little's legal prism.

You cannot escape the premeditated viciousness of Vick's torturing and killing animals for a number of years under the guise of an underground business enterprise. It was no accident. It was a savagely calculated plan, and you cannot forget that. Ever.

But somehow the onus for turning the page rests predominantly on those still outraged over Vick's deeds. They should just get over it, some argue. Let the man live his new life. Let him play NFL football.

But the latter two points are mutually exclusive.

If Vick and his cadre of sycophants still measure his self-worth strictly as a football player at the outset of his new life, then he has learned nothing from the past two years. There will be no remorse for his actions, only a perceived victim's contempt for his persecutors.

Vick will have every opportunity to show that he's a new person possessing a new moral compass, but that has nothing to do with his taking another NFL snap.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/may/23/nfl-should-extend-vicks-suspension/?partner=RSS

What a joke this Drew Sharp.

Leonard Little knew full well that when he stepped in that car drunk there was a very real chance that he could kill someone. Just because he didn't plan on killing someone doesn't excuse it. You can't have it both ways Drew. Either ban them both or let them both in.

Slick
05-23-2009, 06:58 PM
I know this is off topic, and old news, but 90 days for Little? Get the **** outta here?!?!? Incredible.

salasj
05-24-2009, 01:16 PM
[
I would like to see him back. He already paid his debt. The bad thing is he got so much time for dog fighting than most people get for drug charges.

nevcraw
05-24-2009, 01:27 PM
[
I would like to see him back. He already paid his debt. The bad thing is he got so much time for dog fighting than most people get for drug charges.


try dog killing..

SoCalImport
05-24-2009, 01:39 PM
[
I would like to see him back. He already paid his debt. The bad thing is he got so much time for dog fighting than most people get for drug charges.

Drug charges? what kind of drug charges are you referring too? there's a wide spectrum of crimes relating to illegal drugs.


What Vick did was to set up an illegal dog breeding/ fighting ring. Lots of $$ being bet on these fights makes it almost racketeering.
If Vick would've pled guilty early on, before the media ran the story 24 hours a day for weeks, no doubt He'd have done less time.

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/sports/usvick71707ind.html

Atlanta Falcon’s Quarterback Michael Vick’s federal criminal indictment accusing him of conspiring with others to stage dogfighting events and create dogfight training facilicties for profit.

Vick is accused of paying “approximately $34,000” for property located in Smithfield, Va. to train, breed, and house pit-bulls for dogfighting, and engage in dogfighting events with others.

The charges contain multiple allegations of abuse against animals, including that Vick and two co-defendants “executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well.” The executions were allegedly carried out in a variety of brutal ways, including “hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog’s body to the ground.”

With the exception of Vick, the other three defendants have already plead guilty to federal charges, and are awaiting sentencing. According to Vick’s lead defense lawyer Billy Martin, the Atlanta Falcon’s quarterback intends to plead to felony conspiracy. He next court appearance is scheduled for Monday, August 27, 2007.

Lonestar
05-24-2009, 01:48 PM
[
I would like to see him back. He already paid his debt. The bad thing is he got so much time for dog fighting than most people get for drug charges.



and is that not a shame on our "justice system".. IMHO he did not get enough time and drug dealers IMHO should never get out..


If DEN were to pick him up for any reason it would diminish my respect for the team.. Over the past couple of years they have been trying harder to get character players.. and not go after proven thugs and problem kids..

Please lets never go down that road again..

SoCalImport
05-24-2009, 01:50 PM
Pat would never allow it.......AND if He did, I'd start listening to those that think His mind is going.

Lonestar
05-24-2009, 02:01 PM
Pat would never allow it.......AND if He did, I'd start listening to those that think His mind is going.



I believe this to be a true statement..

Davii
05-24-2009, 04:20 PM
We've all filled out job applications...

We've all been asked the question on there, whether or not you were a convicted felon...

McDonald's normally will not hire a convicted felon.

But the NFL should?

broncofanatic1987
05-24-2009, 04:41 PM
We've all filled out job applications...

We've all been asked the question on there, whether or not you were a convicted felon...

McDonald's normally will not hire a convicted felon.

But the NFL should?

If there's an NFL team willing to give him a chance, yes.

Davii
05-25-2009, 03:16 AM
If there's an NFL team willing to give him a chance, yes.

Why should they?

Please explain why a convicted felon should be given one of the greatest opportunities available on this planet.

Nomad
05-25-2009, 08:54 AM
Why should they?

Please explain why a convicted felon should be given one of the greatest opportunities available on this planet.

They shouldn't! But the NFL is a business and greedy at that, Vick has proven to put fans in the seats, merchandise off the shelves, and fans are the most forgiving when their teams are winning. If the NFL wants to clean up their act and start turning away wife beaters, druggies, drunkards, etc then I am all for it.

McDaniels goes after character guys and Vick won't even be a thought.

I brought up something a few pages ago, what Vick did is disgusting but what cities around this country do is just as bad ie Denver. If they find a pit bull in their city limits, they automatically kill the dog only because of breed. Why convict a person of this as a crime when the govt gets away with it. Vick was only guilty of lying that he knew, gave orders, and funded but was never found guilty of physically killing the dogs. Sounds like every member of the city counsel should be imprisoned as well....true!

My point is, Vick should work construction for the rest of his life, but he was convicted of a crime that cities in this country get away with. I guess we do live in a country full of double standards. And even though Vick won't be on the BRONCOS, every NFL fan should be pissed they let the thugs back in.

Davii
05-25-2009, 11:29 AM
They shouldn't! But the NFL is a business and greedy at that, Vick has proven to put fans in the seats, merchandise off the shelves, and fans are the most forgiving when their teams are winning. If the NFL wants to clean up their act and start turning away wife beaters, druggies, drunkards, etc then I am all for it.

McDaniels goes after character guys and Vick won't even be a thought.

I brought up something a few pages ago, what Vick did is disgusting but what cities around this country do is just as bad ie Denver. If they find a pit bull in their city limits, they automatically kill the dog only because of breed. Why convict a person of this as a crime when the govt gets away with it. Vick was only guilty of lying that he knew, gave orders, and funded but was never found guilty of physically killing the dogs. Sounds like every member of the city counsel should be imprisoned as well....true!

My point is, Vick should work construction for the rest of his life, but he was convicted of a crime that cities in this country get away with. I guess we do live in a country full of double standards. And even though Vick won't be on the BRONCOS, every NFL fan should be pissed they let the thugs back in.

While I certainly wont disagree with your premise, I would like to point out the difference in method.

I don't agree with breed specific legislation at all.

However, the state is not smacking dogs off a sidewalk until they are dead.

broncofanatic1987
05-25-2009, 04:30 PM
Why should they?

Please explain why a convicted felon should be given one of the greatest opportunities available on this planet.

When someone pays his or her debt to society, he or she deserves to get on with his or her life without self righteous ******** dictating what kind of job they can have or how much money they're allowed to earn.

Therefore, if there is an NFL franchise willing to give Vick a chance, then he should be given that chance. I don't care if there is such a franchise or not. He's been away from football and wasn't a great quarterback to begin with. It wouldn't be a surprise if there's not a team that is willing to add him to it's roster.

Davii
05-25-2009, 04:33 PM
When someone pays his or her debt to society, he or she deserves to get on with his or her life without self righteous ******** dictating what kind of job they can have or how much money they're allowed to earn.

Therefore, if there is an NFL franchise willing to give Vick a chance, then he should be given that chance. I don't care if there is such a franchise or not. He's been away from football and wasn't a great quarterback to begin with. It wouldn't be a surprise if there's not a team that is willing to add him to it's roster.

Playing football for millions of dollars in a government protected monopoly is not a right.

He certainly deserves another chance. Let him get the same other chance every other convicted felon in this nation gets.

He can start out as a Wal Mart greeter.

Simply serving your jail term does not mean your debt to society is paid. There are a host of restrictions put on convicted felons for the rest of their lives. If the NFL allows him back it would be the stupidest thing to happen to the league, well, probably ever.

Goodell has proclaimed that law breakers, etc. have no place in the NFL. To allow Vick back would show his word means nothing. The issue is not the money, the issue is this miscreant does not deserve to be looked at as a role model in any way shape or form.

broncofanatic1987
05-25-2009, 04:49 PM
Playing football for millions of dollars in a government protected monopoly is not a right.

He certainly deserves another chance. Let him get the same other chance every other convicted felon in this nation gets.

He can start out as a Wal Mart greeter.

Simply serving your jail term does not mean your debt to society is paid. There are a host of restrictions put on convicted felons for the rest of their lives. If the NFL allows him back it would be the stupidest thing to happen to the league, well, probably ever.

Goodell has proclaimed that law breakers, etc. have no place in the NFL. To allow Vick back would show his word means nothing. The issue is not the money, the issue is this miscreant does not deserve to be looked at as a role model in any way shape or form.

I will never agree with you. Who the hell are you to decide who can do what job?

Vick has really already been suspended by the NFL indefinitely when he was told to stay away from the Falcons before he was even put on trial for the charges against him. Whether he gets an official suspension or not is still up in the air, but it would not be out of line for Goodell to allow Vick back into the NFL and he has already acknowledged the possibility.

Davii
05-25-2009, 04:54 PM
I will never agree with you. Who the hell are you to decide who can do what job?

It's called a message board, you know, a discussion forum.

So, I guess I should ask you the same question.

Who the hell are you to decide that convicted felons should make millions of dollars?

Who the hell are you not to agree with me?!?!? BLARGH!!

Relax man.

broncofanatic1987
05-25-2009, 04:58 PM
So, I guess I should ask you the same question.

Who the hell are you to decide that convicted felons should make millions of dollars?:rolleyes:

A pointless question since I've already made it clear that I don't care if there is a team that is willing to give Vick a chance or not.

Davii
05-25-2009, 05:11 PM
:rolleyes:

A pointless question since I've already made it clear that I don't care if there is a team that is willing to Vick a chance or not.

Agreed, it was a pointless question both times it was asked.

omahacolt
05-25-2009, 07:25 PM
when leonard little killed someone, he didnt intend to do it. it was a mistake. his intent was not to kill someone or commit a felony

when vick killed dogs, he set out to commit a felony. it was his intent to commit a felony.

there is a difference.

BroncoWave
05-25-2009, 07:41 PM
when leonard little killed someone, he didnt intend to do it. it was a mistake. his intent was not to kill someone or commit a felony

when vick killed dogs, he set out to commit a felony. it was his intent to commit a felony.

there is a difference.

When you step into a car wasted you know full well that you are endangering your and other people's lives. I'm sorry, but it's much worse to do something that you know has a very good chance of ending human lives than knowingly ending dogs lives. And here's where your logic fails. Owning a firearm without a license is also a felony. If a gun owner knows that that's a felony and willingly does it anyway, does that make him worse than Leonard Little because he set out to commit a felony and Little didn't? Because by your logic, the sheer intent makes it worse; even though Little knew full well that his actions had the chance to end human lives.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Either ban them both or let them both play but it's just ridiculous to say that it's ok to let a guy that committed murder stay in the league but you gotta kick the guy out that killed dogs.

Davii
05-25-2009, 07:41 PM
When you step into a car wasted you know full well that you are endangering your and other people's lives. I'm sorry, but it's much worse to do something that you know has a very good chance of ending human lives than knowingly ending dogs lives. And here's where your logic fails. Owning a firearm without a license is also a felony. If a gun owner knows that that's a felony and willingly does it anyway, does that make him worse than Leonard Little because he set out to commit a felony and Little didn't? Because by your logic, the sheer intent makes it worse; even though Little knew full well that his actions had the chance to end human lives.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Either ban them both or let them both play but it's just ridiculous to say that it's ok to let a guy that committed murder stay in the league but you gotta kick the guy out that killed dogs.

Agreed. Neither one should be in the NFL.

BroncoWave
05-25-2009, 07:43 PM
Agreed. Neither one should be in the NFL.

I personally think they both deserve to be in the league but at least you acknowledge Little's actions are just as bad if not worse than Vick's.

Davii
05-25-2009, 07:48 PM
I personally think they both deserve to be in the league but at least you acknowledge Little's actions are just as bad if not worse than Vick's.

Hell, maybe all the kids growing up in the ghetto can look to Michael Vick and just keep the dog fighting rings alive. No big deal, they can still hold onto the dream of playing in the NFL.

Why should any current NFL players care about drinking and driving? Obviously they will be able to keep their livelihood.

You know what, screw it. Fire Goodell and his do gooder desire to have upstanding citizens represent the NFL. He should institute a draft straight from the prison system.

Why not, I bet there are plenty of felons that could make good ball players!

Hell, maybe he should make at least one felony a pre-requisite for being in the league!

Let the criminals run the league!

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 07:51 PM
Hell, maybe all the kids growing up in the ghetto can look to Michael Vick and just keep the dog fighting rings alive. No big deal, they can still hold onto the dream of playing in the NFL.

Why should any current NFL players care about drinking and driving? Obviously they will be able to keep their livelihood.

You know what, screw it. Fire Goodell and his do gooder desire to have upstanding citizens represent the NFL. He should institute a draft straight from the prison system.

Why not, I bet there are plenty of felons that could make good ball players!

Hell, maybe he should make at least one felony a pre-requisite for being in the league!

Let the criminals run the league!

Felons are worthless pieces of crap. I totally agree.

Let's teach the kids that if you commit a felony that you should be thrown in an electric chair.

BroncoWave
05-25-2009, 07:58 PM
Hell, maybe all the kids growing up in the ghetto can look to Michael Vick and just keep the dog fighting rings alive. No big deal, they can still hold onto the dream of playing in the NFL.

Why should any current NFL players care about drinking and driving? Obviously they will be able to keep their livelihood.

You know what, screw it. Fire Goodell and his do gooder desire to have upstanding citizens represent the NFL. He should institute a draft straight from the prison system.

Why not, I bet there are plenty of felons that could make good ball players!

Hell, maybe he should make at least one felony a pre-requisite for being in the league!

Let the criminals run the league!

Weren't you the one getting angry in this thread about Mo and I misrepresenting your arguments?

broncohead
05-25-2009, 08:00 PM
It's sad when children think sports stars are people to look up to or think they are heroes

Davii
05-25-2009, 08:01 PM
It's sad when children think sports stars are people to look up to or think they are heroes

Even sadder when the sports star in question murders and tortures dogs for fun and profit.

Good times.

Davii
05-25-2009, 08:03 PM
Felons are worthless pieces of crap. I totally agree.

Let's teach the kids that if you commit a felony that you should be thrown in an electric chair.

Nah, but we should teach them that if you piss away the opportunities and priveliges given to you, well, you pissed them away.

What message does it send to allow him back?

What, compassion? Give me a break.


Weren't you the one getting angry in this thread about Mo and I misrepresenting your arguments?

Not misrepresenting, just blowing slightly out of proportion.

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 08:06 PM
Nah, but we should teach them that if you piss away the opportunities and priveliges given to you, well, you pissed them away.

What message does it send to allow him back?

What, compassion? Give me a break.

At what point has he paid his "debt" to society?

Davii
05-25-2009, 08:16 PM
At what point has he paid his "debt" to society?

Right about the time he is allowed to own a handgun.

Wait, that's never.

Yep, right about then.

Specifically, he used the large sums of cash available, and the travel afforded him as a NFL player to fight his dogs as well as to transport his animals across state lines to commit a felony.

In other words, he was able to commit these crimes due in large part to his status as a player in the NFL. He should not be allowed to pursue the NFL as a business again.

There are thousands of felons out there who aren't allowed to leave the state they are from, some can't even leave their county.

Why should Vick be any different?

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 08:22 PM
Right about the time he is allowed to own a handgun.

Wait, that's never.

Yep, right about then.

Specifically, he used the large sums of cash available, and the travel afforded him as a NFL player to fight his dogs as well as to transport his animals across state lines to commit a felony.

In other words, he was able to commit these crimes due in large part to his status as a player in the NFL. He should not be allowed to pursue the NFL as a business again.

There are thousands of felons out there who aren't allowed to leave the state they are from, some can't even leave their county.

Why should Vick be any different?

So, as a felon, you've never paid your debt to society, and should be locked up forever? No...because that's what I'm kind of reading here.

There are levels of felony as well. I'm guessing that those who can't leave their state (I don't know of any that can't leave the county, but I'll take your word for it), have committed worse felonies than those committed by Michael Vick.

AND, if Vick's offense was nothing more than taking fighting dogs across state line, then honestly, I just don't really see a problem with his integration into society and the NFL.

Davii
05-25-2009, 08:32 PM
So, as a felon, you've never paid your debt to society, and should be locked up forever? No...because that's what I'm kind of reading here.

There are levels of felony as well. I'm guessing that those who can't leave their state (I don't know of any that can't leave the county, but I'll take your word for it), have committed worse felonies than those committed by Michael Vick.

AND, if Vick's offense was nothing more than taking fighting dogs across state line, then honestly, I just don't really see a problem with his integration into society and the NFL.

The reasons behind felons not being allowed to leave their state generally deal with crossing state lines in commission of their felonies.

It isn't handed out like candy because you committed a felony.

Michael Vick's crimes were a lot more in depth than crossing state lines in commission of a felony. Pick one.

Integration isn't the problem.

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 08:34 PM
The reasons behind felons not being allowed to leave their state generally deal with crossing state lines in commission of their felonies.

It isn't handed out like candy because you committed a felony.

Michael Vick's crimes were a lot more in depth than crossing state lines in commission of a felony. Pick one.

Integration isn't the problem.

I didn't bring up the state lines issue, you did.

If integration into society isn't the problem, then what is?

Davii
05-25-2009, 08:43 PM
I didn't bring up the state lines issue, you did.

If integration into society isn't the problem, then what is?

He can fully integrate into society.

He does not deserve the privelige of being an NFL player. He already squandered that away.

He was fully aware of his crimes as he committed them, he was fully aware it could land him in prison, he was fully aware that Goodell wanted to purge his league of criminals and thugs.

Michael Vick is nothing more than a convicted felon thug who can chuck a ball.

If Goodell is serious about purging the criminal element from the NFL Vick is a good place to start. To do otherwise shows hes not serious at all. Quite the opposite, he'll take the $$ over his values.

On the state lines issue: Why should Vick be treated any different?

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 08:54 PM
He can fully integrate into society.

He does not deserve the privelige of being an NFL player. He already squandered that away.

He was fully aware of his crimes as he committed them, he was fully aware it could land him in prison, he was fully aware that Goodell wanted to purge his league of criminals and thugs.

Michael Vick is nothing more than a convicted felon thug who can chuck a ball.

If Goodell is serious about purging the criminal element from the NFL Vick is a good place to start. To do otherwise shows hes not serious at all. Quite the opposite, he'll take the $$ over his values.

On the state lines issue: Why should Vick be treated any different?

So, he's not allowed to be integrated into society again...

By saying Goodell shouldn't allow Vick the chance to make another team you are saying that he should not be allowed back into society.

See, either he is or he isn't. There aren't stipulations...

If he's serious about purging the criminal element than he should have a zero tolerance penalty which eliminates anyone who has had a speeding ticket from the NFL. By alienating Vick, he really does nothing, because he already allowed Tank Johnson a second chance.

Davii
05-25-2009, 09:01 PM
So, this is the guy many of you feel should be handed an NFL contract and be allowed in a position to be a role model?

http://thestartingfive.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/michael-vick-r_0.jpg


Suspended NFL quarterback Michael Vick must adhere to tightened restrictions after he tested positive for marijuana use, a federal judge said Wednesday.



When Michael Vick sneaks pot through an airport so that he can get high at home or on the road, no one suffers at his hands. When Michael Vick places a bet through a bookie, no one suffers at his hands. But when Michael Vick gets high and then goes out and beats his dog, that’s a little different. When he takes a couple million dollars and finances a dog fighting club, pulling in kids, teenagers, and young men off the street and introducing them to celebrity and money and criminal elements that is different. When he applies his celebrity to what amounted to a traveling animal cruelty freak show on the road that is different. When the people in his entourage start getting assaulted or threatened or in Bud Melton’s case murdered, that is different. These two things of drugs and gambling when grown into a racket move past the victimless crime of individual consumption, and they start hurting real people, not to mention the dogs.

http://sportsmedia.ign.com/sports/image/article/602/602086/jersey-of-the-week-ron-mexico-20050406031734738-000.jpg

Real class act. I can see why anyone thinks he deserves to represent the NFL and be a role model.

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 09:04 PM
So, this is the guy many of you feel should be handed an NFL contract and be allowed in a position to be a role model?

http://thestartingfive.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/michael-vick-r_0.jpg





http://sportsmedia.ign.com/sports/image/article/602/602086/jersey-of-the-week-ron-mexico-20050406031734738-000.jpg

Real class act. I can see why anyone thinks he deserves to represent the NFL and be a role model.

That, frankly, is a stupid post.

Davii
05-25-2009, 09:04 PM
So, he's not allowed to be integrated into society again...

By saying Goodell shouldn't allow Vick the chance to make another team you are saying that he should not be allowed back into society.

See, either he is or he isn't. There aren't stipulations...

If he's serious about purging the criminal element than he should have a zero tolerance penalty which eliminates anyone who has had a speeding ticket from the NFL. By alienating Vick, he really does nothing, because he already allowed Tank Johnson a second chance.

He can start with convicted felons.

Were you missing for that earlier?

There's a vast difference between misdemeanors and felonies. There should not be convicted felons in the NFL. Period.

Wal-Mart greeters, construction workers, bankers, Circle-K workers, etc aren't part of society?

Only NFL players are part of society?

So Bernard Ebbers should be immediately re-instated as the CEO of MCI upon his release from prison?

I mean, if we don't let him be CEO of a mega communications company we're not allowing the poor guy the opportunity to reintegrate into society, right?

Davii
05-25-2009, 09:07 PM
That, frankly, is a stupid post.

As IMO is every post saying Vick should be allowed back. How is it stupid MO?

You don't like the fact that I bring up Vick's other "incidents". Flipping off cameras during an interview on Fox, knowingly spreading herpes, popping positive for drugs (oh, while awaiting sentencing on federal charges no less), the whole airport incident...

I'm forgetting something...

Oh yeah! The wholesale torture and slaughter of innocent animals!

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 09:09 PM
As IMO is every post saying Vick should be allowed back. How is it stupid MO?

You don't like the fact that I bring up Vick's other "incidents". Flipping off cameras during an interview on Fox, knowingly spreading herpes, popping positive for drugs (oh, while awaiting sentencing on federal charges no less), the whole airport incident...

I'm forgetting something...

Oh yeah! The wholesale torture and slaughter of innocent animals!

A.) I missed that press conference.

B.) I missed where he wore that jersey.

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 09:11 PM
I used my middle finger the other day at work.

I guess I should be fired. :rolleyes:

What a crock it is that people bring that up as an "incident." Frankly, you're a hypocrite if you do.

Davii
05-25-2009, 09:14 PM
I used my middle finger the other day at work.

I guess I should be fired. :rolleyes:

What a crock it is that people bring that up as an "incident." Frankly, you're a hypocrite if you do.

Yes, because you are being such a good role model and representative of the NFL.

Imagine what would happen if, say, a news anchor did that... Fired...
A police chief... fired
a weatherman... fired

Well, the list goes on and on... If you flipped off cameras on national television while representing your newspaper, you're right, you should be fired.

nevcraw
05-25-2009, 09:15 PM
As IMO is every post saying Vick should be allowed back. How is it stupid MO?

You don't like the fact that I bring up Vick's other "incidents". Flipping off cameras during an interview on Fox, knowingly spreading herpes, popping positive for drugs (oh, while awaiting sentencing on federal charges no less), the whole airport incident...

I'm forgetting something...

Oh yeah! The wholesale torture and slaughter of innocent animals!

Don't forget using that douche bag alias: Ron Mexico

Davii
05-25-2009, 09:19 PM
Don't forget using that douche bag alias: Ron Mexico

That's what the herpes incident was about. He was sued for knowingly spreading herpes. It then came out he had been using that alias to get herpes treatment. One of the ways the young lady proved he knew about it, and he threw a bunch of hush money at her.

Why he was never charged with criminal conduct for that.... Wish I knew.

GEM
05-25-2009, 09:41 PM
Felons are worthless pieces of crap. I totally agree.

Let's teach the kids that if you commit a felony that you should be thrown in an electric chair.

So ALL felons are worthless pieces of crap? Wow...there is no rehabilitation for anyone? NO ONE can ever turn their life around.

BULLSHIT. Utter and complete bullshit.

MOtorboat
05-25-2009, 09:43 PM
So ALL felons are worthless pieces of crap? Wow...there is no rehabilitation for anyone? NO ONE can ever turn their life around.

BULLSHIT. Utter and complete bullshit.

Read the thread. There was a lot of sarcasm in that post.

GEM
05-25-2009, 09:45 PM
Read the thread. There was a lot of sarcasm in that post.

Sorry I quoted you Mo....I just went back through the thread. ;)

Requiem / The Dagda
05-25-2009, 09:49 PM
Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone!

Slick
05-25-2009, 09:55 PM
Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone!

Will you fix me a turkey pot pie?

GEM
05-25-2009, 09:57 PM
Will you fix me a turkey pot pie?

Dream...don't do it. Slick didn't get us pics of the aerobics class. He just boasted about how great it was.


:D *giggles*

Requiem / The Dagda
05-25-2009, 09:59 PM
Will you fix me a turkey pot pie?

Try this on for size: Tonight, I had bacon wrapped turkey from the Hutterite colony, along with broccoli and cheese -- with some rice. To top it off, we had upside down apple pie. Hungry yet, Slicksta?

GEM
05-25-2009, 10:01 PM
Try this on for size: Tonight, I had bacon wrapped turkey from the Hutterite colony, along with broccoli and cheese -- with some rice. To top it off, we had upside down apple pie. Hungry yet, Slicksta?

Save me some of the broccoli, cheese and rice...yum!!

Davii
05-25-2009, 10:05 PM
Dammit! All I had was microwave lasagna.

GEM
05-25-2009, 10:06 PM
Dammit! All I had was microwave lasagna.

Microwave lasagna?!? From a box? :yardog:

Davii
05-25-2009, 10:07 PM
Microwave lasagna?!? From a box? :yardog:

It was in a plastic tray thank you very much. :D

GEM
05-25-2009, 10:09 PM
It was in a plastic tray thank you very much. :D

Matt....that is absolutely horrible and I am extremely disappointed in you! :lol:

Grilled chicken marsala for dinner here. :D

Davii
05-25-2009, 10:10 PM
Matt....that is absolutely horrible and I am extremely disappointed in you! :lol:

Grilled chicken marsala for dinner here. :D

Well hey... you make due... Besides, it's Memorial Day, i'm damn sure not spending time cooking. I'm in a chat room with a bunch of guys from my last deployment shooting the shit.

That chicken marsala sure sounds good though! :)

omahacolt
05-26-2009, 05:56 PM
When you step into a car wasted you know full well that you are endangering your and other people's lives. I'm sorry, but it's much worse to do something that you know has a very good chance of ending human lives than knowingly ending dogs lives. And here's where your logic fails. Owning a firearm without a license is also a felony. If a gun owner knows that that's a felony and willingly does it anyway, does that make him worse than Leonard Little because he set out to commit a felony and Little didn't? Because by your logic, the sheer intent makes it worse; even though Little knew full well that his actions had the chance to end human lives.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Either ban them both or let them both play but it's just ridiculous to say that it's ok to let a guy that committed murder stay in the league but you gotta kick the guy out that killed dogs.


i dont care if both are banned from the league. i would be banned from my company if i did either of those things.

little didnt commit murder or he would still be in jail. manslaughter? yes

Hawgdriver
05-26-2009, 06:51 PM
At what point has he paid his "debt" to society?

For me it's not about forgiveness, I just don't want to root for the guy. In fact, I can't root for the guy, so that's why I would take a sabbatical from rooting for my team if he were to join.

I can forgive, but he'll have to walk the path of righteousness a bit before I could ever want to cheer him. For me the worst part of him is his lack of humility.

Hey, sports is all about perceived humility, right? You want to have superstars that are elite++ but also appear humble. Often those two are at odds. Talent + big ego and the need to prove you are the best are the ingredients for success in pro sports. Some players can keep themselves in perspective but others need some...coaching. So even if some of these guys have to put on what amounts to an act to appear humble/sincere/etc., I would rather see the act and not know what how selfish they really are. It's mainly entertainment but there is that sprinkle of character and values that can make the donut sweet or bitter...so make mine Splenda if it can't be real sugar, and count me out if it's powdered turd. Not a big fan of that kind of donut, which is how I see Vick right now.

MOtorboat
05-26-2009, 08:48 PM
For me it's not about forgiveness, I just don't want to root for the guy. In fact, I can't root for the guy, so that's why I would take a sabbatical from rooting for my team if he were to join.

I can forgive, but he'll have to walk the path of righteousness a bit before I could ever want to cheer him. For me the worst part of him is his lack of humility.

Well, you certainly answered whether you want him on the Broncos or not, but I do ask you where the "lack of humility" comment comes from?

In fact, if you check out the SI article written by Tony Dungy, Dungy states that he is being humble about the situation, and that Dungy believes he's truly remorseful.

If you can provide a link to Vick's statements where he was not humble about his current situation, I would appreciate it, as I have not seen anything.

Poet
05-26-2009, 09:36 PM
I remember the night that Vick issued his apology he actually convinced many a person that he was remoreseful. I remember distinctly that Michael Wilbon, a sportswriter and media member that I wish I could half as good as, was convinced as well.

Is this a guy that I want on my team? I almost stopped rooting for the Bengals over Tank Johnson and Chris Henry, so I can understand where Hawg is coming from.

Here is the thing, it is all subjective. Vick had Roger Goodell convinced of a lot of things for awhile. Sincerity is easy to fake. I still don't know if I could tell a man he couldn't play football anymore because he supported a dog fighting ring. He harmed dogs, other guys have hurt people (which is far worse I don't care what anyone says) and not had HALF the attention he has.

Rod Smith hit his girlfriend. Chad Johnson did as well. Randy Moss has had a troubled past, James Harrison beat his girlfriend, Brandon Marshall is always tied into something, Tank Johnson had assualt rifles at his house with a pound of pot with his KIDS present. Exactly where is the outcry for this crap?

Oh wait, that cry has come and gone. Rod Smith and Chad Johnson changed their lives. Randy Moss decided he wanted to not break the law and catch TDs again. James Harrison....is being protected by Steeler supporter Goodell, which is weak as hell, Brandon Marshall gets heat (rightfully so) from a lot of his fans.

I am a second chance guy. Definitely not a THIRD chance guy, and if you don't believe me go to www.bengalsroar.com or www.bengalsworld.com and ask them what King87 thinks about Chris Henry and Tank Johnson. My rants have been....epic I suppose. What has Vick done other than this and a stupid weed charge?

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

So give him a second chance, boo him, and watch him continue to fail at completing simple passes.

But then do us all a favor and make a big deal out of players who actually commit crimes against humans. Donte Stallworth hasn't gotten a TENTH of the heat Vick has.

It's ******* pathetic.

BroncoNut
05-26-2009, 10:18 PM
last post tonite. i swear.

**** king

Poet
05-26-2009, 10:22 PM
last post tonite. i swear.

**** king

You are lucky that as usual I lack a funny zinger to pwn your face son.

Hawgdriver
05-26-2009, 10:29 PM
Well, you certainly answered whether you want him on the Broncos or not, but I do ask you where the "lack of humility" comment comes from?

In fact, if you check out the SI article written by Tony Dungy, Dungy states that he is being humble about the situation, and that Dungy believes he's truly remorseful.

If you can provide a link to Vick's statements where he was not humble about his current situation, I would appreciate it, as I have not seen anything.

actually that twas the second time i said 'pass' for those keeping score at home.

So Dungy thinks he is remorseful? I'm glad to hear it. I will leave the door open for him to demonstrate he's changed, but at this point the answer is no. The humility is based on his past record of behavior and his defiant body language from times I've seen him. I do think people can change. I understand it's a fine line with some personality types, either boom or bust. I'm willing let it slide but it's going to take time and I don't want the Vick experiment in my back yard before that time.

btw I'm not looking for a 'statement' of contrition, but a series of actions and proper behavior as expressed by body language and tone. does that make sense?

Shazam!
05-27-2009, 12:09 AM
Spare me the crap about him being remorseful. The guy is sad he was caught, not sad about what he has done, and this is just the beginning.

People involved in dogfighting see nothing wrong with it. To them it's a sport and nothing more. It isn't like hunting so spare me the comparisons. Dogs are just tools like temporary stock to these people. To them killing a dog is nothing. To Vick killing dogs who underperformed and lost him money is nothing. These people involved in this illegal activity brings all sorts of other problems with it besides the brutal death it brings to dogs- gambling, drugs, guns, etc.

You have to be a gold plated special piece of shit to be involved in that kind of savage atmosphere, of blood and guts and watching animals tear each other to pieces, literally, for money.

Then there is the long list of other crap that has followed Vick his entire career-

Two 'homeboys' of his selling weed out of a van registered to him.

Numerous lectures from Dan Reeves, who we all know is an old school good guy, who I still like after all these years.

The 'Ron Mexico' herpes issue.

The water bottle fiasco.

Giving fans the finger.

The watch-stealing airport incident.

Lies upon lies of leading up to his dogfighting case and lies throughout the case.

I can think of only a few teams that would sign him, but it's hard to see given how desperate a team is for a QB why alienate their biggest and loyalist fanbase for a guy like this, with an image so tarnished. The Raiders are the only team I can think of that may go after him, and I think even Raider faithful, even with all their stupidity and idiotic costumes, would not welcome him. This is the QUARTERBACK, the face of the franchise. At no other position is it as important.

Donovan McNabb would NEVER do anything like this, and so many other QBs, past and present, wouldn't have either.

Mike Vick is a piece of trash, and he doesn't deserve to be reinstated to the NFL.

I would never view the Denver Broncos in the same manner ever again if they were to sign him, after following this team for 25 years. I'm not going to say I'll never be a fan because that's too emotional an answer. But my feelings of my team will never be the same.

Davii
05-27-2009, 01:12 AM
Well, you certainly answered whether you want him on the Broncos or not, but I do ask you where the "lack of humility" comment comes from?

In fact, if you check out the SI article written by Tony Dungy, Dungy states that he is being humble about the situation, and that Dungy believes he's truly remorseful.

If you can provide a link to Vick's statements where he was not humble about his current situation, I would appreciate it, as I have not seen anything.

That's a lot of the problem.

Elevation inc
05-27-2009, 04:10 AM
i would tell the other players on the roster to keep there dogs chained and hidden............................................ ..OUCH....lol!!!!!

Nomad
05-27-2009, 07:07 AM
I wouldn't care if Goodell purged the NFL of druggies and criminals, but he needs to set certain standards and stick to them no matter how good the player is and what kind of revenue he brings in. In other words, the NFL would lose alot of talent and he knows that.

Dirk
05-27-2009, 08:23 AM
It's just beyond my comprehension how these kids that have the world by the nads can throw it all away on stupidity. Most of us "regular" folk would be humbled to have those types of opportunities.

Again I say that Vick is remorseful simply because he owes a ton of money. :coffee:

LTC Pain
05-27-2009, 08:44 AM
Puke all over monitor.

broncofanatic1987
05-27-2009, 05:05 PM
Most of us "regular" folk would be humbled to have those types of opportunities.

I don't think that's true. Star athletes are treated differently from the moment they are recognized as star athletes. They develop a sense of entitlement that us "regular" folk don't develop because we will never be exposed to the type of opportunities to which star athlete are exposed.'

A lot of people who win the lottery end up bankrupt after a year. That comes from being exposed to something that they otherwise wouldn't have achieved and not knowing how to handle it. I think a lot of these athletes are simply reacting to their fame and money the same way many of us "regular" folk react to winning the lottery.

Simple Jaded
05-27-2009, 08:08 PM
Orton > Vick.......However.......Vick > Torain/Arrington/Buckhalter.

I don't care if Vick ever plays again, but I don't think the Broncos would welcome this QB Circus after the offseason they've had.

I don't even think that Doogie could turn Vick into an NFL QB.......

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 09:40 PM
Orton > Vick.......However.......Vick > Torain/Arrington/Buckhalter.

I don't care if Vick ever plays again, but I don't think the Broncos would welcome this QB Circus after the offseason they've had.

I don't even think that Doogie could turn Vick into an NFL QB.......

as QB IMO he is worthless has a cannon for an arm but no brain to use it.. he is a running QB only and the only reason he was decent in ATL was the rest of the Running game ZBS under Gibbs and his TE algae..

He is as you said an unlikely QB in DEN.. I do not see Pat, Josh, Xman or the est of the group wanting that circus around..

MOtorboat
05-27-2009, 09:41 PM
as QB IMO he is worthless has a cannon for an arm but no brain to use it.. he is a running QB only and the only reason he was decent in ATL was the rest of the Running game ZBS under Gibbs and his TE algae..

He is as you said an unlikely QB in DEN.. I do not see Pat, Josh, Xman or the est of the group wanting that circus around..

He wasn't worthless. That team was very good, and much of it was because of him. Sure, he had a good running game, but much of that good running game was him.

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 09:44 PM
He wasn't worthless. That team was very good, and much of it was because of him. Sure, he had a good running game, but much of that good running game was him.


Your sure like to mince words..
OK lets say as a Trowing QB he was worthless yes most of the Offense was built around his running threat but then Gibbs came along and made it the best running game in the NFL for a couple of years..

MOtorboat
05-27-2009, 09:53 PM
Your sure like to mince words..
OK lets say as a Trowing QB he was worthless yes most of the Offense was built around his running threat but then Gibbs came along and made it the best running game in the NFL for a couple of years..

Vick was a good quarterback. Period.

He won in Green Bay, in a night game, in the playoffs. He made a conference championship. He was a good quarterback.

He did something the "God" Jay Cutler couldn't even do...

Michael Vick was one hell of a quarterback and it was BECAUSE of the run threat that he did what he did. Let's not completely lose perspective because of his crimes, and personal biases.

hotcarl
05-27-2009, 10:07 PM
Vick was a good quarterback. Period.

He won in Green Bay, in a night game, in the playoffs. He made a conference championship. He was a good quarterback.

He did something the "God" Jay Cutler couldn't even do...

Michael Vick was one hell of a quarterback and it was BECAUSE of the run threat that he did what he did. Let's not completely lose perspective because of his crimes, and personal biases.

what he is now: a dumb, rusty, dog killing QB

he was never that smart

sounds like a pat bowlen kind a guy WHOOO HOOOOOOO:beer::elefant:

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 10:35 PM
Vick was a good quarterback. Period.

He won in Green Bay, in a night game, in the playoffs. He made a conference championship. He was a good quarterback.

He did something the "God" Jay Cutler couldn't even do...

Michael Vick was one hell of a quarterback and it was BECAUSE of the run threat that he did what he did. Let's not completely lose perspective because of his crimes, and personal biases.


he was only a good QB because of a good defense and his running ability his passing game was not all that strong..
career:
completion % of a whooping 52.8 56.9 57.1
6.7 YPC 7.1 6.7
average a little under 2 k yards per year.. 3217 2660
a 75.7 QB rating. 79.9 74.6
71 TD and 52 picks 300/226 161/161
55 fumbles and 187 sacks in 6 years.. 76/516 75/284

but then he averaged 7.3 yards rushing and 21 TD's total, 4.4/33 4.3/17
he had 1730 passing attempts and 529 rushes.. 51475/774 4350/428


FWIW I also listed John and Jakes numbers to compare to..
John in red based on 16 years and Jake in Orange based on 11 years

Believe what you want he won some games he lost some but it was his running that made him what he was.. ran almost every fourth time at the LOS.. about 2% 9%
If that is YOUR description of a great QB well fine by me I'll want mine to pass the Ball a bit more often..

http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelvick/profile?id=VIC311467

http://www.nfl.com/players/johnelway/profile?id=ELW276861

http://www.nfl.com/players/jakeplummer/profile?id=PLU243945

MOtorboat
05-27-2009, 10:36 PM
he was only a good QB because of a good defense and his running ability his passing game was not all that strong..
career:
completion % of a whooping 52.8 56.9 57.1
6.7 YPC 7.1 6.7
average a little under 2 k yards per year.. 3217 2660
a 75.7 QB rating. 79.9 74.6
71 TD and 52 picks 300/226 161/161
55 fumbles and 187 sacks in 6 years.. 76/516 75/284

but then he averaged 7.3 yards rushing and 21 TD's total, 4.4/33 4.3/17
he had 1730 passing attempts and 529 rushes.. 51475/774 4350/428


FWIW I also listed John and Jakes numbers to compare to..
John in red and Jake in Orange

Believe what you want he won some games he lost some but it was his running that made him what he was.. ran almost every fourth time at the LOS.. about 2% 9%
If that is YOUR description of a great QB well fine by me I'll want mine to pass the Ball a bit more often..

http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelvick/profile?id=VIC311467

http://www.nfl.com/players/johnelway/profile?id=ELW276861

http://www.nfl.com/players/jakeplummer/profile?id=PLU243945

lol.

Simple Jaded
05-27-2009, 10:57 PM
as QB IMO he is worthless has a cannon for an arm but no brain to use it.. he is a running QB only and the only reason he was decent in ATL was the rest of the Running game ZBS under Gibbs and his TE algae..

He is as you said an unlikely QB in DEN.. I do not see Pat, Josh, Xman or the est of the group wanting that circus around..
I agree.......

Vick was supposed to revolutionize the QB position, his fans will have to forgive me for holding him to that standard, and when it comes to his supposed potential, he was a complete failure.......blaming everybody but himself.

He had been through a few OC's and countless WR's, but in less than 2 season since he's no longer in Atlanta, the Falcons have found stability at QB and OC. Also, Vick's former WR teammates, Jenkins/White, have blossomed, White could be nearing Elite status, Jenkins to a lesser extent, he's a solid No2, a far cry from the albatross around Vick's development that he used to be.

Vick was a great sandlot football player, mediocre NFL QB.......

Simple Jaded
05-27-2009, 11:02 PM
For a QB, Jay Cutler is a pretty good runner, and for a RB, Vick was a pretty good thrower.......

silkamilkamonico
05-27-2009, 11:09 PM
Vick was something like 9-25-1 against teams that finished with winning records. I think he's common. "The best of the lousiest. And the lousiest of the best."

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 11:11 PM
I agree.......

Vick was supposed to revolutionize the QB position, his fans will have to forgive me for holding him to that standard, and when it comes to his supposed potential, he was a complete failure.......blaming everybody but himself.

He had been through a few OC's and countless WR's, but in less than 2 season since he's no longer in Atlanta, the Falcons have found stability at QB and OC. Also, Vick's former WR teammates, Jenkins/White, have blossomed, White could be nearing Elite status, Jenkins to a lesser extent, he's a solid No2, a far cry from the albatross around Vick's development that he used to be.

Vick was a great sandlot football player, mediocre NFL QB.......


thanks for making the comparison to real time QB's.. I forgot that in my thoughts..

IMO vick was joke as a NFL QB.. filled alot of seat no doubt and was exciting to watch but he was one trick pony with limited passing skills IF anyone could contain him from running and there were alot of sacks he was totally ineffective in the passing game..

BTW Left out probably the most important stat he was 45-41 in wins/losses and 1-1 in the playoffs..

Lonestar
05-27-2009, 11:13 PM
For a QB, Jay Cutler is a pretty good runner, and for a RB, Vick was a pretty good thrower.......



edited for emphasis..

FanInAZ
05-27-2009, 11:30 PM
For a QB, Jay Cutler is a pretty good runner, and for a RB, Vick was a pretty good thrower.......

Actually, I would have Vick play WR. It would give him a better oppertunity to use his speed and agility.

lcwy7oaklandraider
05-27-2009, 11:33 PM
Never want that to happen i really dont know how i would react

jrelway
05-27-2009, 11:58 PM
hell, i wouldnt mind. he paid his debt to society, and would IMO be an upgrade over orton and simms. vick could be deadly in a spread offense. if vick got back into football shape, id welcome it.

Shazam!
05-28-2009, 12:34 AM
Why any Broncos fan worth their salt would want a man like Vick as the face of the franchise, no matter how desperate Denver was for a QB, I have no idea.

This franchise once had the proud and legendary John Elway, who even in his years as an NFL elderstatesman, did nothing but exude class. Would they really have to stoop so low with a gold plated piece of shit like Vick? I'd rather they draft and groom a talented raw QB.

I'd never feel the same about the franchise again.

sneakers
07-28-2009, 04:12 AM
Michael Vick should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell....would you like a cookie son?

Tned
07-28-2009, 07:27 AM
Well, first, I can't see Vick being the type of guy to run McD's system. Vick is a running, athletic QB, not a pocket/system QB. So, from that aspect, it's almost certainaly a moot point.

That aside, I am not sure how I would feel. On the one hand, I think he paid his debt, and people shoudln't be punished forever, on the other hand, I can't easily forget the torture and pain he inflicted on those animals. I must admit I am pretty surprised that Goodell isn't giving him more than a 5 month suspension. I really figured he would get at least a year suspension after he got out of jail. You really can't consider the time he served as his NFL suspension, as playing the NFL wasn't an option.

Bottom line, I am not sure how I feel. The fact is that few NFL players are choir boys, so I try and seperate off field and on field behavior. I try and focus what players are doing on the field and not judge them for what they do off the field.

Much in the same way I watch movies that have actors/actresses in leading roles, when those same actors/actresses behave in ways I don't agree with off camera (whether political activism, criminal behavior, etc.).

CoachChaz
07-28-2009, 07:54 AM
There are a million different arguments for and against his crimes. At the end of the day, they werent against humanity and I think it's ludicrous to treat him like a second rate human being.

Little and Stallworth get passes for killing humans...even BMarsh gets an okay for slapping women around...but God forbid an animal dies.

Poet
07-28-2009, 08:29 AM
There are a million different arguments for and against his crimes. At the end of the day, they werent against humanity and I think it's ludicrous to treat him like a second rate human being.

Little and Stallworth get passes for killing humans...even BMarsh gets an okay for slapping women around...but God forbid an animal dies.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Little and Stallworth just got unlucky with their DUIs, Marshall is just a guy who is trying to mature, but somehow Vick is the worst of that lot.

Nevermind Vick actually went to PRISON for his crimes. Nevermind that his closest friends he had in this world ratted him out. Hell, totally forget that it was a bunch of DOGS that suffered here.

GEM
07-28-2009, 09:02 AM
There are a million different arguments for and against his crimes. At the end of the day, they werent against humanity and I think it's ludicrous to treat him like a second rate human being.

Little and Stallworth get passes for killing humans...even BMarsh gets an okay for slapping women around...but God forbid an animal dies.

Quoted for truth. Vick gets 24 mos for the dogs. Stallworth gets 30 days for drinking and getting behind the wheel and killing a man on his way home from work. Something wrong with this picture? I mean, what Vick did was horribly wrong, but to put more value on dogs' lives than a man's? 30 days. wow.

Anywho, to the topic of the thread. Nope, don't want him. Besides his personal whoas, I just don't see an immediate need for him. He's not an upgrade over who we have already. What they have, he doesn't. What he has they don't. He doesn't fit the scheme that it looks like McDoogie is trying to install.

yardog
07-28-2009, 09:05 AM
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Little and Stallworth just got unlucky with their DUIs, Marshall is just a guy who is trying to mature, but somehow Vick is the worst of that lot.

Nevermind Vick actually went to PRISON for his crimes. Nevermind that his closest friends he had in this world ratted him out. Hell, totally forget that it was a bunch of DOGS that suffered here.

:tsk:

Overtime
07-28-2009, 09:07 AM
I hate that jackass...and I hope that this would never happen, but after the the last 4 or 5 months, who can tell anymore?

That being said, I think it would be hard for me to watch a Bronco game.

i will boycott every Broncos game, and I will not watch the Broncos on tv, or attend any games. I wont even wear my jerseys if they sign that piece of shit.

and I will personally send Mr. Bowlen a letter telling him why he just lost another fan.

they better not sign him. otherwise I'm about to become a Patriots fan.

CoachChaz
07-28-2009, 09:14 AM
i will boycott every Broncos game, and I will not watch the Broncos on tv, or attend any games. I wont even wear my jerseys if they sign that piece of shit.

and I will personally send Mr. Bowlen a letter telling him why he just lost another fan.

they better not sign him. otherwise I'm about to become a Patriots fan.

Just out of curiosity...why?

Overtime
07-28-2009, 09:56 AM
Just out of curiosity...why?

because Michael Vick is garbage.

This man, bankrolled an illegal dogfighting ring, he starved dogs, he electrocuted them, he drowned them, he hanged them, he planned all of this out, AND THEN HE LIED TO FEDERAL PROSECUTORS. then on top of that he tested positive for marijuana during his federal criminal trial. He embarrassed the NFL, he embarrassed the Atlanta Falcons, and he embarrrassed Arthur Blank.

this isn't some guy who made a random mistake. This is a man who partook in heinous crimes against an animal, and if I need remind you, if you're willing to kill animals with such viciousness, then you're certainly apt to kill humans as well, because this is how Ted Bundy and Marilyn Manson started off...by killing animals.

Not to mention he wasn't remorseful during his trial, several judges threw his meaningless apologies to the wind. The guy wasn't even grateful for what he had before he got in trouble. He flipped off the fans in Atlanta, and was just an *******.

He wasn't sorry then, and he's not sorry now. He's only sorry he got caught and paid a price by going to prison.

Michael Vick is lower than the dog defecate I step in when I chase an overthrown football into a neighbors yard.

I don't want that piece of shit anyhwere near this team. We don't need his contributions, we don't want his worthless contributions. As far as I'm concerned he can talk a long walk off a short bridge.

That's why.

jrelway
07-28-2009, 10:04 AM
i'd welcome it. he served his dues and theres nothing wrong with more depth at the qb position. i have a dirty feeling new england signs him and turns into another gem like randy moss. wild cat formation would be killer with him.

TXBRONC
07-28-2009, 10:14 AM
I would have reservations about signing Vick but I don't have problem with him getting a second chance. What he did was reprehensible to the nth degree but in my opinion its not on the same level as Rae Carruth who actually murdered his pregnant girlfriend or Leonard Little who killed someone while driving drunk and injured another person in another drunk driving incident if I recall correctly. Worse yet Little is still in the NFL.

That being said I'm in step with Tned Vick wouldn't fit in Denver's offense.

Shazam!
07-28-2009, 10:29 AM
i will boycott every Broncos game, and I will not watch the Broncos on tv, or attend any games. I wont even wear my jerseys if they sign that piece of shit.

and I will personally send Mr. Bowlen a letter telling him why he just lost another fan.

I couldn't have said it any better. I would be through watching the Broncos. I didn't change as a fan, the Broncos changed.

Vick is trash. The face of a team shouldn't revolve around a guy like this. It didn't take long for the Falcons, who would be desperate for a QB to rebound from the loss of Vickshit.

He is not a DLmen, LB, or even an enigmatic WR. He's the quarterback. I could never think of my beloved Denver Broncos the same way again if they went after him. Even the thought nauseates me.


they better not sign him. otherwise I'm about to become a Patriots

I live in NY. I'd watch the NYJ, but not with enthusiasm.

rationalfan
07-28-2009, 10:30 AM
i find the outright hatred for vick hilarious. what he did wasn't cool. but go to any meat packing plant and you'll find that the cows which become your hamburgers and steaks are treated just as poorly as vick treated his dogs. yet, we're not verbally lynching the meat pack owners or workings. double standard time; and the fact that too many people seem to like dogs more than they like humans.

on another note, and for curiousity's sake, what would you do if the broncos acquired the rights to leonard little? remember, he killed a person while driving drunk. should he be given the same venom people are serving up for vick?

sacmar
07-28-2009, 10:47 AM
Dante stallworth kills a man and can play this guy kills dogs and everyone thinks he should be banned from making a living. We're trying to build a team here not a boy scout troop. If we kicked off everyone who was doing something bad there'd be no athleates in almost any sport. Hell there's probably 10 or so people on this board doing worse....Vick can kill baby turtles with sidewalk chalk for all i care, make the practices and games and make us a better team is all i ask. We've used so called "christian players" thus far and it's got us embarassed by SD and kicked out of the playoffs. Lets worry bout how they play not what they do.

nevcraw
07-28-2009, 10:47 AM
There are a million different arguments for and against his crimes. At the end of the day, they werent against humanity and I think it's ludicrous to treat him like a second rate human being.

Little and Stallworth get passes for killing humans...even BMarsh gets an okay for slapping women around...but God forbid an animal dies.

There are no arguments for his crimes..
This was not for food, this was not for survival, this was for entertainment.

BTW - I am fine w/ Vick playing football again and making a living and even would be ok if he ended up in Denver, but nobody can spin what he did as not dispicable and heinous.

underrated29
07-28-2009, 11:05 AM
It might have already been posted, but here is my take.

If we signed vick i would be PISSED!!!!!!

Not because he is vick, or the dogfighting thing, or anything else like that. THat i could care less about. He did his crime, he paid his time, water under the bridge.

What would Piss me off to no end is we would have a great QB in Jay leading our offense to the promise land, but Mcd feels the need to run him out the door.

Only to bring in someone who is an even worse QB, with no accuracy at all and the propetacy to throw picks like brett favre.

That would really piss me off.


Jay is an ideal QB for our new system. Vick is not even close to ideal for our system. But if we let jay go for vick...

OOOH BOY i would be peeved.


(let it be noted, i like Vick as a player. Just not for the broncos system.)

I think vick would do well in TENN. STL.DET. not here.

CoachChaz
07-28-2009, 11:23 AM
Let me clear my stance. I'll never say that what he was accused of and jailed for isnt sad and maybe even a bit twisted on some level, but it was NOT a crime against humanity. Sure...what happened was for entertainment purposes. Same as dog racing and horse racing and even big game hunting. Does anyone throw a fit because some horse has to be euthanised because it broke it's leg in a race? usually not. At least not at this level. but why not? That animal gave it's life for entertainment and gambling purposes as well.

If we are going to despise Mike Vick and turn our backs on the Broncos (if they were to sign him) then I want to see the same actions when a member of the team talks about their trophy Polar Bear or ram head in the den of their hunting lodge.

As far as Vick on the team...I agree...he doesnt fit our current scheme and I highly doubt McD or Bowlen would entertain signing him. but the point is, he committed a "crime" and paid his debt. he should get a second chance.

And if anyone is seriously going to compare a twisted psychopath dissecting a cat in their backyard just to see what the guts look like to someone allowing dogs to fight for entertainment purposes they were raised to believe were okay, then society really needs a wake up call.

Poet
07-28-2009, 11:27 AM
:tsk:

I love dogs. I really do. However, I know that a dog is a lesser animal then a human. I hate to be blunt, that is the honest truth.

Northman
07-28-2009, 11:29 AM
i find the outright hatred for vick hilarious. what he did wasn't cool. but go to any meat packing plant and you'll find that the cows which become your hamburgers and steaks are treated just as poorly as vick treated his dogs. yet, we're not verbally lynching the meat pack owners or workings. double standard time; and the fact that too many people seem to like dogs more than they like humans.



Let me know when we start eating dogs and then we can talk.



The biggest problem here is that people are trying to compare this as a "animal" vs "human" comparison which isnt the case. Be pissed off about the justice system and how it relates to punishment all you want but dont try and play off that killing dogs is just a ho-hum type of deal here. This guy was torturing dogs for ENTERTAINMENT. What Stallworth and Little did was equally as bad however again, complain to your congressman about the leinant punishment laws. But that doesnt make what Vick did any less sadistic and the fact that so many people are blowing it off like its no big deal is just flat out embarrassing to humanity in general. When your a team that stops caring about character you then become the Oakland Raiders and i say, no thanks.

Poet
07-28-2009, 11:34 AM
Let me know when we start eating dogs and then we can talk.



The biggest problem here is that people are trying to compare this as a "animal" vs "human" comparison which isnt the case. Be pissed off about the justice system and how it relates to punishment all you want but dont try and play off that killing dogs is just a ho-hum type of deal here. This guy was torturing dogs for ENTERTAINMENT. What Stallworth and Little did was equally as bad however again, complain to your congressman about the leinant punishment laws. But that doesnt make what Vick did any less sadistic and the fact that so many people are blowing it off like its no big deal is just flat out embarrassing to humanity in general. When your a team that stops caring about character you then become the Oakland Raiders and i say, no thanks.

Vick's actions were not as bad as Little's and Stallworth's. I'm sorry, Vick killed what, 45 dogs? That isn't worth a human's life, sorry.

CoachChaz
07-28-2009, 11:39 AM
Let me know when we start eating dogs and then we can talk.



The biggest problem here is that people are trying to compare this as a "animal" vs "human" comparison which isnt the case. Be pissed off about the justice system and how it relates to punishment all you want but dont try and play off that killing dogs is just a ho-hum type of deal here. This guy was torturing dogs for ENTERTAINMENT. What Stallworth and Little did was equally as bad however again, complain to your congressman about the leinant punishment laws. But that doesnt make what Vick did any less sadistic and the fact that so many people are blowing it off like its no big deal is just flat out embarrassing to humanity in general. When your a team that stops caring about character you then become the Oakland Raiders and i say, no thanks.

I'll assume the bolded area was not intended as it sounded.

I dont think anyone is blowing off the fact that dogs were killed. But to treat it as a crime even remotely EQUAL to killing a human is ridiculous.

TXBRONC
07-28-2009, 11:40 AM
Quoted for truth. Vick gets 24 mos for the dogs. Stallworth gets 30 days for drinking and getting behind the wheel and killing a man on his way home from work. Something wrong with this picture? I mean, what Vick did was horribly wrong, but to put more value on dogs' lives than a man's? 30 days. wow.

Anywho, to the topic of the thread. Nope, don't want him. Besides his personal whoas, I just don't see an immediate need for him. He's not an upgrade over who we have already. What they have, he doesn't. What he has they don't. He doesn't fit the scheme that it looks like McDoogie is trying to install.

Well said.

Even if Vick were brought in he wouldn't be the starting quarterback. Even if he were a good fit (and by no means do I think he is) I don't think he would start certainly he wouldn't start right away.

Some have suggested that if Vick were brought in that we could implement the "wildcat" as part of our offense but I don't think that would be a good idea considering our offense is still working on getting down a new system.

CoachChaz
07-28-2009, 11:42 AM
Well said.

Even if Vick were brought in he wouldn't be the starting quarterback. Even if he were a good fit (and by no means do I think he is) I don't think he would start certainly he wouldn't start right away.

Some have suggested that if Vick were brought in that we could implement the "wildcat" as part of our offense but I don't think that would be a good idea considering our offense is still working on getting down a new system.

There is no way he fits our system and if they still brought him in at a very minimum salary just to see if he could add something to the offense or maybe become a pocket passer, it would still severely limit his field time.