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View Full Version : "NO RESPECT ,i tell ya' NO RESPECT"



T.K.O.
05-18-2009, 08:18 PM
i just thought i would share my theory on teams getting "dissed" by the "experts" and media in general.
it always seems like when the broncos are expected to be really good,they under achieve and when they are under dogs they play better.
ive always been a proponent of doing your talking on the field.
so i was thinking this could be a thread to post comments and articles by media types that say were gonna suck! kinda like bulliten board quotes that teams hang in the locker room to fire up the team.

that being said i stumbled across kirwins rankings on nfl.com and he has us 27th.....WHAT?
i know we were 8-8 and arent favored to win the superbowl by any stretch.but 27TH?
i mean he has the
rams 2-14 in 08'
browns 4-12
cincy 4-11-1
seattle 4-12
gb 6-10
jax 5-11
all ahead of us
sure we took a hit at qb (maybe,or orton might be better suited to our new scheme).but we likely upgraded our running game ,special teams and defense
and it took a monumental collapse for us not to win the division with arguably the worst defense in team history,so i just dont see how suddenly there are only 5 teams in the nfl expected to be worse than the broncos.
thoughts?:salute:

claymore
05-18-2009, 08:21 PM
I think we are far better. And Im really hoping most of our problems wasnt athleticism. I really, really hope it was coaching.

And I really really hope McD is the QB whisperer he was hired to be.

GEM
05-18-2009, 08:22 PM
Why put so much weight on what some schmuck thinks? Eff him. Broncos have always been underdogs. It's nothing new. There is too much different about this team to say whether it's going to be good or bad.

T.K.O.
05-18-2009, 08:28 PM
Why put so much weight on what some schmuck thinks? Eff him. Broncos have always been underdogs. It's nothing new. There is too much different about this team to say whether it's going to be good or bad.

i agree its just that i actually think the team is better off hearing how they're gonna be no good. it fires them up,kinda like when everybody said we had "NO CHANCE" of winning sb32....the packers were the team to beat and would crush the puny afc sacrifice d'jour....HA !
it also works the other way like when last years broncos assumed they had the division got cocky and well....hehem
so i just want to see FIRE and attitude,a take no prisoners and we WILL win
mentality like we had when guys like elway,eddie mac ,T.D. and sharpe were on the field

rationalfan
05-18-2009, 09:00 PM
pat kirwan=least credible nfl expert employed by a major media outlet.

*and I would have written the same thing had he rated the broncos at number 3 in his power poll.

Shazam!
05-18-2009, 09:09 PM
I don't give a **** what polls and rankings say especially in May. Every team is 0-0. Every season there are a few teams that surprises. Last year nobody would've thought Miami would be a playoff team and Arizona a Super Bowl team.

Slick
05-18-2009, 09:10 PM
I think we are far better. And Im really hoping most of our problems wasnt athleticism. I really, really hope it was coaching.

And I really really hope McD is the QB whisperer he was hired to be.

I think he'll be fine. My only pessimistic thoughts are about the defense. I'm not worrying about respect from the media or lack thereof. I'm trying to convince myself that Nolan can coach these guys up better than the last two scrubs.

GEM
05-18-2009, 09:19 PM
I think he'll be fine. My only pessimistic thoughts are about the defense. I'm not worrying about respect from the media or lack thereof. I'm trying to convince myself that Nolan can coach these guys up better than the last two scrubs.

The first step to improvement is done. Slowik is goners. :D It's all up from here baby!!

Lonestar
05-18-2009, 09:31 PM
i just thought i would share my theory on teams getting "dissed" by the "experts" and media in general.
it always seems like when the broncos are expected to be really good,they under achieve and when they are under dogs they play better.
ive always been a proponent of doing your talking on the field.
so i was thinking this could be a thread to post comments and articles by media types that say were gonna suck! kinda like bulliten board quotes that teams hang in the locker room to fire up the team.

that being said i stumbled across kirwins rankings on nfl.com and he has us 27th.....WHAT?
i know we were 8-8 and arent favored to win the superbowl by any stretch.but 27TH?
i mean he has the
rams 2-14 in 08'
browns 4-12
cincy 4-11-1
seattle 4-12
gb 6-10
jax 5-11
all ahead of us
sure we took a hit at qb (maybe,or orton might be better suited to our new scheme).but we likely upgraded our running game ,special teams and defense
and it took a monumental collapse for us not to win the division with arguably the worst defense in team history,so i just dont see how suddenly there are only 5 teams in the nfl expected to be worse than the broncos.
thoughts?:salute:

so what teams did he have below us?

d you have a link to share..

Simple Jaded
05-18-2009, 09:42 PM
First off all, the Broncos lost a Hall of Fame Head Coach and it remains to be seen if Doogie will be anything more than a typical rookie at best or monumental mistake at worst.

Second, the Broncos took a huge step back at the most important position on the field, if Orton ever get's it done it will be because Doogie is the DemiGod that he and everybody else thinks he is.......and we've already covered that. Regardless of the BS that the Broncos and The Mile High Report want to sell you, the Broncos took one ginormous step back with the Cutler trade, Kyle Orton is not better suited for anything but a shave.

Third, obviously Nolan is a huge upgrade over Slowik, but that's saying next to nothing, Slowik was thoroughly pathetic in every conceivable way and the worst thing to ever happen to this team from a competitive standpoint, Nolan would have to be catatonic or Brain-dead 16 weeks out of the season to not improve over Slowik.......having said that, Nolan's defenses in SF were far from great most of the time and pretty much sucked at other times! And so far, his personnel decisions, to the extent he's been involved in acquiring talent, have been thoroughly underwhelming.

Fourth, 64% of Denver's starting offense has less than 4 years of NFL experience, this showed noticeably last season when 3/4's of the starting offense had less than 3 years of NFL experience, and with the installation of the most complex offensive scheme known to man, that inexperience doesn't help much.

Fifth, let's be honest, the talent level on defense is still as bad as any team in the NFL and the ST's again figures to feature a lot of young/inexperienced players and will be coached by a guy who has a whopping 3 seasons as a ST's coordinator.

Add to that a brutal schedule and a possible suspension of Denver's most explosive offensive weapon and you can see why Denver isn't getting a lot of respect.......to be honest, the only ones buying what the Broncos are shoveling is you, the Denver Broncos fan, just like you always do (No offense).

Doogie may turn out to the be the Second Coming of Bill Belicheat, but so far, he has given objective NFL observers zero reason to take that leap of faith.......

Nature Boy
05-18-2009, 09:51 PM
Ranked 27th is no surprise to me. No Franchise QB, no real upgrades in the defense(you can't have a good 3-4 defense without a dominant NT), a brash 32 yr old coach with absolutely zero HC experience, the Broncos will suck. We'll be lucky to win 4 games in 2009.

.

GEM
05-18-2009, 10:38 PM
Alright Debbie Downers.....why even turn on the games this season, they've already gone 5-11 in your books. :rolleyes:

atwater27
05-18-2009, 10:55 PM
i just thought i would share my theory on teams getting "dissed" by the "experts" and media in general.
it always seems like when the broncos are expected to be really good,they under achieve and when they are under dogs they play better.
ive always been a proponent of doing your talking on the field.
so i was thinking this could be a thread to post comments and articles by media types that say were gonna suck! kinda like bulliten board quotes that teams hang in the locker room to fire up the team.

that being said i stumbled across kirwins rankings on nfl.com and he has us 27th.....WHAT?
i know we were 8-8 and arent favored to win the superbowl by any stretch.but 27TH?
i mean he has the
rams 2-14 in 08'
browns 4-12
cincy 4-11-1
seattle 4-12
gb 6-10
jax 5-11
all ahead of us
sure we took a hit at qb (maybe,or orton might be better suited to our new scheme).but we likely upgraded our running game ,special teams and defense
and it took a monumental collapse for us not to win the division with arguably the worst defense in team history,so i just dont see how suddenly there are only 5 teams in the nfl expected to be worse than the broncos.
thoughts?:salute:

We deserve no respect. Our defense sucked last year. We didn't do enough for it to not suck this year. Regardless if you like McDaniels, he is still a ROOKIE. In that respect, we will suck. We traded in a Lamborghini for a Dodge at QB. That will make us suck.
SO why the surprise that we are picked by the experts to suck this year? Those guys are T.R.O. (Team Realistic Observations), not instafans of the new regime in Denver.

D1g1tal j1m
05-18-2009, 11:34 PM
First off all, the Broncos lost a Hall of Fame Head Coach and it remains to be seen if Doogie will be anything more than a typical rookie at best or monumental mistake at worst. Shan was a brilliant offensive mind when he took over the reigns, but his personnel decisions the last 4 years were disastrous. He thought he could just plug any ole low round RB into his system and get a dominate running game. That didn't last very long and he continued to reach on his defensive draft picks.


Second, the Broncos took a huge step back at the most important position on the field, if Orton ever get's it done it will be because Doogie is the DemiGod that he and everybody else thinks he is.......and we've already covered that. Regardless of the BS that the Broncos and The Mile High Report want to sell you, the Broncos took one ginormous step back with the Cutler trade, Kyle Orton is not better suited for anything but a shave.
Orton is a 4 year vet who has started for the Bears for 2 of those years. He is only 26 years old and has been a proven winner. Jay was suppose to be the face of the Franchise but his Agent decided that the Broncos were not going to pony up the ridiculous amount that he was going to ask for after next year. Lets see how Orton does as a Broncos before you bash him.


Third, obviously Nolan is a huge upgrade over Slowik, but that's saying next to nothing, Slowik was thoroughly pathetic in every conceivable way and the worst thing to ever happen to this team from a competitive standpoint, Nolan would have to be catatonic or Brain-dead 16 weeks out of the season to not improve over Slowik.......having said that, Nolan's defenses in SF were far from great most of the time and pretty much sucked at other times! And so far, his personnel decisions, to the extent he's been involved in acquiring talent, have been thoroughly underwhelming.
Agreed that Nolan is a huge upgrade over the often over-matched Slowik. It may get ugly for the D as we transition to the 3-4 but at least we got rid of Webster, Bly, McCree and the rest of the CFL'ers that Shan signed. The acquiring of talent has been hamstrung by the lack of talent available for the Broncos' positions of need. There were a huge lack of NT available in the draft (there were even some questions as to whether Raji could be a two gap NT). We got help in the secondary where we needed a infusion of talent.


Fourth, 64% of Denver's starting offense has less than 4 years of NFL experience, this showed noticeably last season when 3/4's of the starting offense had less than 3 years of NFL experience, and with the installation of the most complex offensive scheme known to man, that inexperience doesn't help much.
And this lack of NFL experience on Offense averaged the second most yards per game last year. The problem was with scoring in the red zone. I trust that McD will have a game plan for scoring in the red zone (that's where Moreno fits in, along with Quinn)


Fifth, let's be honest, the talent level on defense is still as bad as any team in the NFL and the ST's again figures to feature a lot of young/inexperienced players and will be coached by a guy who has a whopping 3 seasons as a ST's coordinator.
The Broncos have upgraded their secondary. Drafted a DE/LB in Ayers (whom some draft experts touted as the best defensive player in the draft) and drafted a couple of playmakers on D. Most of the guys brought in this off-season have ST's experience and most have excelled at it. I hope it all gels together, we shall see.


Add to that a brutal schedule and a possible suspension of Denver's most explosive offensive weapon and you can see why Denver isn't getting a lot of respect.......to be honest, the only ones buying what the Broncos are shoveling is you, the Denver Broncos fan, just like you always do (No offense).

Doogie may turn out to the be the Second Coming of Bill Belicheat, but so far, he has given objective NFL observers zero reason to take that leap of faith.......
The schedule is tough, but not one we can't overcome. We have to worry about our own division. I don't find the Chefs or Faiders as threats. SD is the team to beat, I hope LT is still the shell of himself that he displayed last year. It doesn't look like Marshall will be suspended for any long length/or at all. Of course we are not buying all that is being brought forward to us by the Broncos, but we are fans of one of the most respected Franchises around.
McD hasn't coached a game yet, but he seems to have a plan and is sticking with it. Only time will tell if it was a smart hire, but I will cut him some slack until he actually coaches a season.

Shazam!
05-19-2009, 12:57 AM
Shan was a brilliant offensive mind when he took over the reigns, but his personnel decisions the last 4 years were disastrous. He thought he could just plug any ole low round RB into his system and get a dominate running game. That didn't last very long and he continued to reach on his defensive draft picks.


Orton is a 4 year vet who has started for the Bears for 2 of those years. He is only 26 years old and has been a proven winner. Jay was suppose to be the face of the Franchise but his Agent decided that the Broncos were not going to pony up the ridiculous amount that he was going to ask for after next year. Lets see how Orton does as a Broncos before you bash him.


Agreed that Nolan is a huge upgrade over the often over-matched Slowik. It may get ugly for the D as we transition to the 3-4 but at least we got rid of Webster, Bly, McCree and the rest of the CFL'ers that Shan signed. The acquiring of talent has been hamstrung by the lack of talent available for the Broncos' positions of need. There were a huge lack of NT available in the draft (there were even some questions as to whether Raji could be a two gap NT). We got help in the secondary where we needed a infusion of talent.


And this lack of NFL experience on Offense averaged the second most yards per game last year. The problem was with scoring in the red zone. I trust that McD will have a game plan for scoring in the red zone (that's where Moreno fits in, along with Quinn)


The Broncos have upgraded their secondary. Drafted a DE/LB in Ayers (whom some draft experts touted as the best defensive player in the draft) and drafted a couple of playmakers on D. Most of the guys brought in this off-season have ST's experience and most have excelled at it. I hope it all gels together, we shall see.


The schedule is tough, but not one we can't overcome. We have to worry about our own division. I don't find the Chefs or Faiders as threats. SD is the team to beat, I hope LT is still the shell of himself that he displayed last year. It doesn't look like Marshall will be suspended for any long length/or at all. Of course we are not buying all that is being brought forward to us by the Broncos, but we are fans of one of the most respected Franchises around.

McD hasn't coached a game yet, but he seems to have a plan and is sticking with it. Only time will tell if it was a smart hire, but I will cut him some slack until he actually coaches a season.

Awesome post and a Hi-five alone doesn't do it justice.

I think with Nolan if he can bring back the fundamentals to the Defense, basic tackling was a problem the last few years and that can be fixed. If the DLine can't generate pressure by itself you gotta blitz to compensate. All the smoke and mirrors the last two years and feigned coverages were infuriating to watch. Broncos DBs playing 10 yards from the WR? Nauseating.

I won't throw McD under the bus until I see Denver in-game. Basic sound football. That's what I am hoping for. Anything more is a gift.

Dirk
05-19-2009, 06:04 AM
Yeah, respect is nothing that the Broncos are used to. I like it that way. Being the underdog in most games makes it more exciting and even sweeter when we win.

INbronco
05-19-2009, 06:53 AM
First off all, the Broncos lost a Hall of Fame Head Coach and it remains to be seen if Doogie will be anything more than a typical rookie at best or monumental mistake at worst.

HOF is prognostication, produced a mediocre to poor team for 3 years in a row is fact.


Second, the Broncos took a huge step back at the most important position on the field, if Orton ever get's it done it will be because Doogie is the DemiGod that he and everybody else thinks he is.......and we've already covered that. Regardless of the BS that the Broncos and The Mile High Report want to sell you, the Broncos took one ginormous step back with the Cutler trade, Kyle Orton is not better suited for anything but a shave.

Fact is Cutler is a losing QB on a strongly offensive team with all the best crew around, Orton is a winning QB with a team that has never been offensive minded. His rookie record is better than Cutler ever was.

Third, obviously Nolan is a huge upgrade over Slowik, but that's saying next to nothing, Slowik was thoroughly pathetic in every conceivable way and the worst thing to ever happen to this team from a competitive standpoint, Nolan would have to be catatonic or Brain-dead 16 weeks out of the season to not improve over Slowik.......having said that, Nolan's defenses in SF were far from great most of the time and pretty much sucked at other times! And so far, his personnel decisions, to the extent he's been involved in acquiring talent, have been thoroughly underwhelming.

In SF he wasn't the DC. Granted he seemed to show Shanahanian lack of concern about defense but he has other venues where his defense was good. With a Draft class sorely lacking in defensive Line talent did you think they would manufacture DT out of thin air?

Fourth, 64% of Denver's starting offense has less than 4 years of NFL experience, this showed noticeably last season when 3/4's of the starting offense had less than 3 years of NFL experience, and with the installation of the most complex offensive scheme known to man, that inexperience doesn't help much.

Fifth, let's be honest, the talent level on defense is still as bad as any team in the NFL and the ST's again figures to feature a lot of young/inexperienced players and will be coached by a guy who has a whopping 3 seasons as a ST's coordinator.

Bad talent level is clearly your opinion. The reality is NFL wide respected safety help is on board and one of the top rated defensive line talents was drafted. What about the great ST coaching talent that everyone wanted and was brought in by Shanahan? How did that work out?

Add to that a brutal schedule and a possible suspension of Denver's most explosive offensive weapon and you can see why Denver isn't getting a lot of respect.......to be honest, the only ones buying what the Broncos are shoveling is you, the Denver Broncos fan, just like you always do (No offense).

Denver offense is largely intact with proven talent at RB and QB as well as other skill positions (serious suspension time must be your pipe dream). Offense minded HC will exploit that team because it's proven he knows how to win.

Doogie may turn out to the be the Second Coming of Bill Belicheat, but so far, he has given objective NFL observers zero reason to take that leap of faith.......

Those "NFL observers" are just that, they usually misread all the turnaround teams that came down the pike. One only has to review last season to see that.

Nomad
05-19-2009, 07:08 AM
I was always taught, if someone doubts you then prove them wrong. BRONCOS need to prove their critics wrong by their play on the field!

roomemp
05-19-2009, 02:42 PM
First off all, the Broncos lost a Hall of Fame Head Coach and it remains to be seen if Doogie will be anything more than a typical rookie at best or monumental mistake at worst.

Second, the Broncos took a huge step back at the most important position on the field, if Orton ever get's it done it will be because Doogie is the DemiGod that he and everybody else thinks he is.......and we've already covered that. Regardless of the BS that the Broncos and The Mile High Report want to sell you, the Broncos took one ginormous step back with the Cutler trade, Kyle Orton is not better suited for anything but a shave.

Third, obviously Nolan is a huge upgrade over Slowik, but that's saying next to nothing, Slowik was thoroughly pathetic in every conceivable way and the worst thing to ever happen to this team from a competitive standpoint, Nolan would have to be catatonic or Brain-dead 16 weeks out of the season to not improve over Slowik.......having said that, Nolan's defenses in SF were far from great most of the time and pretty much sucked at other times! And so far, his personnel decisions, to the extent he's been involved in acquiring talent, have been thoroughly underwhelming.

Fourth, 64% of Denver's starting offense has less than 4 years of NFL experience, this showed noticeably last season when 3/4's of the starting offense had less than 3 years of NFL experience, and with the installation of the most complex offensive scheme known to man, that inexperience doesn't help much.

Fifth, let's be honest, the talent level on defense is still as bad as any team in the NFL and the ST's again figures to feature a lot of young/inexperienced players and will be coached by a guy who has a whopping 3 seasons as a ST's coordinator.

Add to that a brutal schedule and a possible suspension of Denver's most explosive offensive weapon and you can see why Denver isn't getting a lot of respect.......to be honest, the only ones buying what the Broncos are shoveling is you, the Denver Broncos fan, just like you always do (No offense).

Doogie may turn out to the be the Second Coming of Bill Belicheat, but so far, he has given objective NFL observers zero reason to take that leap of faith.......

I can't wait till we make the playoffs next year so I can bump this thread and tell you I told you so :salute:

underrated29
05-19-2009, 02:50 PM
I would rate the jags and seahawks higher than us next year. I infact would bet that both teams do better than we do. But i would also rate atlanta and miami a lot lot lower than us too.

So it just depends on who you talk to. If we had last years schedule this year, i think an 11-5 season is achievable. But this year just a 9-7. But i really believe we are close. Kinda like a volcano. We have enough to spill over the edges but things like, new scheme,qb, tough schedule, lack of defensive line talent, will hold us down further than we should. If we get a solid dline draft next year i can see us exploding on the scene like we did in the 90's.

T.K.O.
05-19-2009, 04:00 PM
We deserve no respect. Our defense sucked last year. We didn't do enough for it to not suck this year. Regardless if you like McDaniels, he is still a ROOKIE. In that respect, we will suck. We traded in a Lamborghini for a Dodge at QB. That will make us suck.SO why the surprise that we are picked by the experts to suck this year? Those guys are T.R.O. (Team Realistic Observations), not instafans of the new regime in Denver.

i just cant take it anymore,so many fans seem to think cutler was the greatest qb to ever take the field in the orange and blue...I dONT GET IT!
we were in the afccg in 05 and had a winning record when cutler took over....we havnt had that luxury since.
i realize its not ALL his fault but every other team in the nfl places some of the blame for its losses on the qb,why does jay get a pass?
its a fact that jay has impressive talent ,but he also makes poor decisions at critical points in games,and yes he cost us some wins!
last year there were 15 qbs with a higher qb rating,that rating does not allow for "cherry picking" stats. it is a well known and extensivly used tool to identify the performance of a qb as a whole.
some of the qbs with a better rating are
a. rodgers
m shaub
m cassel
matt ryan
shaun hill
seneca wallace
these are not "the best of the best" by any means,so jay is not elite just because he was forced to throw 600+ times to a very good set of recievers and broke the yardage record!
he still had one of the highest int ratio in the league with arguably the best o-line in the game.
i just dont see how we just cant live without him:salute:

pnbronco
05-19-2009, 04:21 PM
Dig and Shazam great posts. I'm just going to wait and see how it all plays out. I don't expect a great season because there are so many changes and it's a tough season, but if they play like a team and give it their best then I'll be happy.

UR intelligent and logical as usual, but then you are a hockey boy....;)

Lonestar
05-19-2009, 04:34 PM
Dig and Shazam great posts. I'm just going to wait and see how it all plays out. I don't expect a great season because there are so many changes and it's a tough season, but if they play like a team and give it their best then I'll be happy.

UR intelligent and logical as usual, but then you are a hockey boy....;)

this is how I see it lots of talent on O, not sure about anything on D. ST we have never had so any improvement there is a uptick..

Way to many changes in players, schemes and hopefully attitudes (a postive not a negative).. a brutal schedule are reasons I do not expect a winning season..

If we just improve on DEF and ST and not get our asses blown out of games I will be happy..

I have seen in the past 49 years lots of losing seasons one more is not going to kill me.. As long as there is light at the end of the tunnel..

pnbronco
05-19-2009, 04:41 PM
this is how I see it lots of talent on O, not sure about anything on D. ST we have never had so any improvement there is a uptick..

Way to many changes in players, schemes and hopefully attitudes (a postive not a negative).. a brutal schedule are reasons I do not expect a winning season..

If we just improve on DEF and ST and not get our asses blown out of games I will be happy..

I have seen in the past 49 years lots of losing seasons one more is not going to kill me.. As long as there is light at the end of the tunnel..

I agree Jr, let's just hope that light is not a train.....:laugh:...:D

Simple Jaded
05-19-2009, 05:58 PM
Shan was a brilliant offensive mind when he took over the reigns, but his personnel decisions the last 4 years were disastrous. He thought he could just plug any ole low round RB into his system and get a dominate running game. That didn't last very long and he continued to reach on his defensive draft picks.

I was talking about Shanahan as a Head Coach, not as a personnel man, but since you brought up Shanahan's decisions the last 4 years, the only proven talent this team has has been brought in the last 4 years and the last time I checked, in a decade and a half Shanahan never pulled the insanely idiotic bullshit that Doogie has in a month+.......

Orton is a 4 year vet who has started for the Bears for 2 of those years. He is only 26 years old and has been a proven winner. Jay was suppose to be the face of the Franchise but his Agent decided that the Broncos were not going to pony up the ridiculous amount that he was going to ask for after next year. Lets see how Orton does as a Broncos before you bash him.

Orton is a 4-year vet, you got that part right, but Orton and Grossman have Coattailed a defense that has been brilliant (At least Grossman coattailed them to the SB), it's taken Orton four years to adjust to the Pro Game and earn a starting QB job for a team that has been BEGGING for a QB, he has yet to prove anything of significance. Say what you want about Cutler and his agent, it changes nothing, the Broncos took a huge step back at the QB position, that's the point.......maybe we should save the interpretations for another thread.......

Agreed that Nolan is a huge upgrade over the often over-matched Slowik. It may get ugly for the D as we transition to the 3-4 but at least we got rid of Webster, Bly, McCree and the rest of the CFL'ers that Shan signed. The acquiring of talent has been hamstrung by the lack of talent available for the Broncos' positions of need. There were a huge lack of NT available in the draft (there were even some questions as to whether Raji could be a two gap NT). We got help in the secondary where we needed a infusion of talent.

The Broncos improved their depth, that's the best you can say for their work this off-season, where you may see improvements, I see the Same Shit Different Day. Questions about Raji doesn't change the fact that he's a Top10 talent and plays a position of need.......Making matters worse, the Broncos had the ammo to move up and were more than willing to use it, yet they still chose to draft a RB even though there were about 100 RB's already on the roster. Green Bay had RB's and a much lesser need at NT than do the Broncos, that didn't stop them from taking Raji. If Doogie is looking for perfect solutions than he's as naive as Rick Riley says he is.......

And this lack of NFL experience on Offense averaged the second most yards per game last year. The problem was with scoring in the red zone. I trust that McD will have a game plan for scoring in the red zone (that's where Moreno fits in, along with Quinn)

If you don't think the inexperience had anything to do with the offenses inconsistencies, then I have no doubt that you trust that McD/Moreno/Quinn will fix everything.......if only it were that easy.......

The Broncos have upgraded their secondary. Drafted a DE/LB in Ayers (whom some draft experts touted as the best defensive player in the draft) and drafted a couple of playmakers on D. Most of the guys brought in this off-season have ST's experience and most have excelled at it. I hope it all gels together, we shall see.

They upgraded the talent level at the safety spot, but not by as much as you think, imo. The biggest impact these free agent players will have is in the leadership department and they are anything but long-term solutions. Smith should be an upgrade over Bell and Williams, that's not saying much. Ayers was rated as a base 4-3 LE by those experts, he is a major projection to LB, even those experts concede as much, and with his apparent lack of strength, there is no reason to believe that he is the answer at the 5 technique. The Broncos passed up a Top10 defensive player for yet another RB, this does nothing to change the perception that the talent level on the defense is not noticeably better.......

The schedule is tough, but not one we can't overcome. We have to worry about our own division. I don't find the Chefs or Faiders as threats. SD is the team to beat, I hope LT is still the shell of himself that he displayed last year. It doesn't look like Marshall will be suspended for any long length/or at all. Of course we are not buying all that is being brought forward to us by the Broncos, but we are fans of one of the most respected Franchises around.
McD hasn't coached a game yet, but he seems to have a plan and is sticking with it. Only time will tell if it was a smart hire, but I will cut him some slack until he actually coaches a season.

KC and Oakland have closed the gap between them and the Broncos, you're not threatened by them because you overrate the Broncos. Anything can and will happen, nothing is set in stone, but right here and right now, that schedule is F'ing brutal, they play 8 of the last 9 SB champs. I'm not cutting McD any slack, his job was simple, improve the defense and take the offense to the next level, yet his first order of business was to sign a longsnapper to a record deal and trade the Franchise QB. Like you said, he's never even coached a game, so most people are not buying his bullshit, this is not a plan, it's stupidity.......

I'm not telling anybody what to think, I'm only giving you a few of the many reasons other people have for the lack of respect. Objective analyst's just don't seem to be buying the same Hype, Spin and Wishful Thinking that Broncos fans are clinging to.......

Simple Jaded
05-19-2009, 06:10 PM
I can't wait till we make the playoffs next year so I can bump this thread and tell you I told you so :salute:

And I can't wait til you bump this tread so I can remind you that I am only giving you legitimate reasons people have for thinking the Broncos will suck.

Me being wrong is nothing new, I'm wrong all the time, who are you gonna brag to about that?

And don't worry, if the Broncos suck, I will not be bumping this thread, I just don't care.......

roomemp
05-19-2009, 06:22 PM
And I can't wait til you bump this tread so I can remind you that I am only giving you legitimate reasons people have for thinking the Broncos will suck.

Me being wrong is nothing new, I'm wrong all the time, who are you gonna brag to about that?

And don't worry, if the Broncos suck, I will not be bumping this thread, I just don't care.......

That last sentence is the problem with some "Broncos fans" . The just don't care.

Slick
05-19-2009, 06:27 PM
Link just doesn't care to rub someone's nose in it if he turns out to be right. I'm sure he'd much rather be wrong about what he thinks will happen next year. Just a hunch.

Simple Jaded
05-19-2009, 06:30 PM
That last sentence is the problem with some "Broncos fans" . The just don't care.

I don't see it as a problem, bumping threads to show you were right proves nothing.

And if you're trying to say that I'm something less than a "real Broncos fan", then I'll take that as a compliment.......

T.K.O.
05-19-2009, 07:13 PM
reason #1: the addition of knowshon moreno combined with the likely emergence of ryan torain should produce one of the league's brightest young rb tandems

reason #2: having the architect of one of the most prolific offenses in league history as our new head coach

reason #3:key additions on defense and the maturation of players from a defensive draft in 07' combined with a proven dc in mike nolan has to be an upgrade.

reason 4:fielding a team of hungry players who know if they dont give 100% they will be on the block .and priority one will be a team 1st- win or go home
attitude.

reason 5:we have the best recieving corps in the division (maybe the league with the departure of marvin harrison and possibly boldin)

reason 6:we gave the rest of the division 10 years to win a superbowl and they just could'nt do it

reason 7:the raiders suck

reason 8:the chiefs suck

reason 9: the chargers suck

reason 10:kyle orton will be the biggest surprise of the year when he guides the broncos to the division title and beyond,making the denver faithfull forget all about "the player" that quit and moved to chicago(who by the way will NOT make the post season.

D1g1tal j1m
05-20-2009, 12:42 AM
I was talking about Shanahan as a Head Coach, not as a personnel man, but since you brought up Shanahan's decisions the last 4 years, the only proven talent this team has has been brought in the last 4 years and the last time I checked, in a decade and a half Shanahan never pulled the insanely idiotic bullshit that Doogie has in a month+.

Shan was the defacto GM and HC and those two can not be separated when talking about Shan. Let's see, he dumped his Starting QB who just led them to the Conference Championship in Plummer for Cutler after having a 7 and 4 record, with the reasoning being that he gave us the best chance to win the SB. Cutler never got us even to the playoffs.

Orton is a 4-year vet, you got that part right, but Orton and Grossman have Coattailed a defense that has been brilliant (At least Grossman coattailed them to the SB), it's taken Orton four years to adjust to the Pro Game and earn a starting QB job for a team that has been BEGGING for a QB, he has yet to prove anything of significance. Say what you want about Cutler and his agent, it changes nothing, the Broncos took a huge step back at the QB position, that's the point.......maybe we should save the interpretations for another thread.

You can say that Cutler over inflated his passing yards because we completely abandoned the run game because Shan was hypnotized by Cutlers arm and a bad D and ST that put us behind. Orton was forced to play as a rookie because of Grossman's injury and the bad play of back up Chad Hutchinson. Orton was replaced during his second season because the Bears where enamored over the physical tools of Grossman and they signed Griese to become number 2 even though Orton won 10 out of his 15 games as a rookie. Maybe you should look deeper into the situation with Orton before you claim that it was a step back.

The Broncos improved their depth, that's the best you can say for their work this off-season, where you may see improvements, I see the Same Shit Different Day. Questions about Raji doesn't change the fact that he's a Top10 talent and plays a position of need.......Making matters worse, the Broncos had the ammo to move up and were more than willing to use it, yet they still chose to draft a RB even though there were about 100 RB's already on the roster. Green Bay had RB's and a much lesser need at NT than do the Broncos, that didn't stop them from taking Raji. If Doogie is looking for perfect solutions than he's as naive as Rick Riley says he is.

He was a top 10 talent (Raji) that GB wanted for their conversion to a 3-4. After his monstrous Senior Bowl and Combine there was no way we would get him. We drafted the top RB in the draft to help score in the red zone and move the chains. The 100 RB's already on the roster consists of injury prone runners that are not considered true # 1 type backs. Buckhalter, Arrington, Jordon, & Torain. If this what you wanted to go into the season with as your RB by committee, then you are as naive as you think McD is.

If you don't think the inexperience had anything to do with the offenses inconsistencies, then I have no doubt that you trust that McD/Moreno/Quinn will fix everything.......if only it were that easy.......

We had the best O-line in football last year. We have Marshall and Royal at WR along with Sheff, Graham & now Quinn. We have Moreno at RB with the change of pace backs that I mentioned backing him up (as they should) and have Hillis as the FB/TE hybrid that will help create mismatches. It looks good on paper, we will see how it plays on the field.


They upgraded the talent level at the safety spot, but not by as much as you think, imo. The biggest impact these free agent players will have is in the leadership department and they are anything but long-term solutions. Smith should be an upgrade over Bell and Williams, that's not saying much. Ayers was rated as a base 4-3 LE by those experts, he is a major projection to LB, even those experts concede as much, and with his apparent lack of strength, there is no reason to believe that he is the answer at the 5 technique. The Broncos passed up a Top10 defensive player for yet another RB, this does nothing to change the perception that the talent level on the defense is not noticeably better.

We were not getting Raji, so let it go. Orakpo was a physical specimen but many had concerns that he was a workout warrior in the mold of Gholston, plus he already had 2 knee surgeries so I wouldn't have drafted him either. RB have a much bigger impact in their 1st years than any other position. So getting the multifaceted Moreno into this offense is a nice piece to the puzzle. You think the Safety spot of Dawkins, Hill, McBath and Fox/Barnett is not a huge improvement over McCree, Abdullah, Manuel, Lowry, and Barnett then I don't know how to satisfy you. And again, some had Ayers as the best defensive player available so we will see which draft expert is right.

KC and Oakland have closed the gap between them and the Broncos, you're not threatened by them because you overrate the Broncos. Anything can and will happen, nothing is set in stone, but right here and right now, that schedule is F'ing brutal, they play 8 of the last 9 SB champs. I'm not cutting McD any slack, his job was simple, improve the defense and take the offense to the next level, yet his first order of business was to sign a longsnapper to a record deal and trade the Franchise QB. Like you said, he's never even coached a game, so most people are not buying his bullshit, this is not a plan, it's stupidity.

KC is mortgaging their future on another system QB who was tutored by McD yet you don't think McD can't win with Orton and got rid of their best player on Offense in Tony G. Plus their D was almost as bad as ours and they are making the same wholesale changes that we are yet they closed the gap?
The Raiders drafted a WR and S that some rated as 4th round talents at the most. They have a rocket armed QB with a 2 cent brain who looks like he should be playing the the Oline. They are run by Al Davis, who many believe has let the game pass him by. Their team will always implode due to the lack of discipline that Al allows to permeate. Paxson is considered one of the best long snappers in the game and McD is going to bring in guys he is comfortable with. I have no problems with that. Cutler's agent wanted Jay out of Denver after Shan was fired, because he knew that he was now not in line for the 100 million contract that he was sure Shan was going to give. Jay hasn't even won a playoff game so he is just another QB with a lot to prove. I agree whole heartedly that the schedule is tough, but lets not listen to the "experts" who are just like us fans but shout out louder then the rest of us


I'm not telling anybody what to think, I'm only giving you a few of the many reasons other people have for the lack of respect. Objective analyst's just don't seem to be buying the same Hype, Spin and Wishful Thinking that Broncos fans are clinging to.


I am not telling anybody what to think either. But the Analysts' tend to focus at one aspect of a team to determine their fate before the season even starts. Did anyone expect the Cardinals in the SB? We have just an even chance as every other team this year, let us just play the season before we play the doom and gloom game.

bronc kid
07-22-2009, 12:29 PM
hey look the only reason broncos didnt take division is because of bad coaching mike shanny kept throwin in our people that actually did good but he threw them into over time he played them nonstop and caused alot of injuries and plus with brian dawkins on the defense i think we have serious upgrades there plus not to mention that kyle orton did pretty good with th BEARS so dont dog on him he made it happen with only a tight end and a running back to throw to not to mention the much easier devision and offensive line i think he can make it happen besides the young players that were forced to play last year did great for rookies drafted in low rounds these guys played really well and the addition of some better runningbacks i think we will be better this year if we can avoid injuries we are far better than 27

dogfish
07-22-2009, 12:32 PM
hey look the only reason broncos didnt take division is because of bad coaching mike shanny kept throwin in our people that actually did good but he threw them into over time he played them nonstop and caused alot of injuries and plus with brian dawkins on the defense i think we have serious upgrades there plus not to mention that kyle orton did pretty good with th BEARS so dont dog on him he made it happen with only a tight end and a running back to throw to not to mention the much easier devision and offensive line i think he can make it happen besides the young players that were forced to play last year did great for rookies drafted in low rounds these guys played really well and the addition of some better runningbacks i think we will be better this year if we can avoid injuries we are far better than 27


punctuation is your friend. . . . :welcome:


no, seriously!

Lonestar
07-22-2009, 12:40 PM
punctuation is your friend. . . . :welcome:


no, seriously!


add breaking it up into paragraphs.. makes it so much easier to read..

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
07-22-2009, 08:09 PM
I feel like to us as the fans this season is kind of unpredictable sometimes I look at us and go wow we're going to suck, and other days I think we are a solid team. It all rides on what McD can do with the guys.

Tned
07-22-2009, 08:13 PM
I feel like to us as the fans this season is kind of unpredictable sometimes I look at us and go wow we're going to suck, and other days I think we are a solid team. It all rides on what McD can do with the guys.

I think it comes down to two things:

First, can McD get Orton to perform well within his system. Will Orton be the good, smart system QB that McD thinks he can be.

Second, will the defense, specifically the front seven, be capable of being at worst a mid-tier defense.

T.K.O.
07-22-2009, 08:25 PM
I feel like to us as the fans this season is kind of unpredictable sometimes I look at us and go wow we're going to suck, and other days I think we are a solid team. It all rides on what McD can do with the guys.

kinda like when we came out of the gate 3-0 last year and thought we had something goin'
only to find out we still had a ways to go.
i think we are moving in the right direction.
and no matter what its gonna be an exciting year watching a whole new team !:salute:

Shazam!
07-22-2009, 10:11 PM
There is no reason to think otherwise Denver had a much better shot with Shanahan if he was still here at the helm with Cutler. It'd be another seaon of abysmal defense, a few blowouts and losses Denver should win, Cutler pouting, the defense breaking down at crucial moments, and watching SD take the Division for the 4th year in a row.

I am excited. A new offense for the first time in many years, and I do believe even if the defense is marginally better, this team can eek out a few wins it would've lost the last two season, and that can be all the difference. Aside from the Cutlet debacle, I like the emphasis and direction McDaniels has taken this team. I think Orton can play well in McD's system, with McD's work with QBs I am in no position to deny him the benefit of the doubt (and neither is anyone ELSE).

Sound funadmentals, a team philosophy, leadership on the field and accountability is what has been deperately needed for a LONG time.

If McD delivers, or fails miserably, crow will be served in salad, stew, broiled, fried, cured, sliced, and dessert.

Krugan
07-22-2009, 10:15 PM
First off Nolan is an upgrade over slowick, but in all honesty, his defenses havent been great, unless on a team loaded with talent.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/NolaMi0.htm

Just take a read through and look, not just at one single stat, but across the board. Compare those good years with which teams he was coaching and look at the talent level.

Hoping that him as an addition along with the 30something crowd is going to lift us up much further than we were is a big reach until this team commits to adding TALENT.

Cant believe that Mcd is getting a leash for doing pretyt much what shanny did with this D for years. Over used past the prime veterans on the D side of the ball. Undersized undertalented Dline players, whom all were over paid. Ill stop there, it depreses me.

Lonestar
07-22-2009, 10:26 PM
First off Nolan is an upgrade over slowick, but in all honesty, his defenses havent been great, unless on a team loaded with talent.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/NolaMi0.htm

Just take a read through and look, not just at one single stat, but across the board. Compare those good years with which teams he was coaching and look at the talent level.

Hoping that him as an addition along with the 30something crowd is going to lift us up much further than we were is a big reach until this team commits to adding TALENT.

Cant believe that Mcd is getting a leash for doing pretyt much what shanny did with this D for years. Over used past the prime veterans on the D side of the ball. Undersized undertalented Dline players, whom all were over paid. Ill stop there, it depreses me.

well it takes talent to win at any level.. but playing as a team and not individuals as they have been for the past few years should help. Having veteran leadership on the field will enhance that also..

As much as I thought Al Wilson was not a great MLB (big hits no tackles) when he left and then when John Lynch left this team went into a HUGE leadership black hole.. HUGE while Champ and DJ are damned fine players they are lead by example not get in your face leaders..

Having our new HOF safety back there will be a big plus..

Since it is going to take a year or two to get into eh 3-4 scheme and anticipate instead reacting to a play. I do not see us much better than upper lower tier on D this year but even that will be a huge improvement..

FanInAZ
07-22-2009, 11:02 PM
The only effect that the media's disrespect has on the Broncos is that none of them, not named Elway, will ever be allowed in the HOF.

bronc kid
07-23-2009, 11:30 AM
my fear is that we don't have big enough linemen for the 3-4 this year we really could use someone like tyson jakson on that line

and i really wish kept shanny but not at head coach just as an offensive coordinator because what he did with our offense was amazing

Shazam!
07-23-2009, 11:51 AM
my fear is that we don't have big enough linemen for the 3-4 this year we really could use someone like tyson jakson on that line

and i really wish kept shanny but not at head coach just as an offensive coordinator because what he did with our offense was amazing

That's all Shanahan essentially was, a glorified offensive coordinator.

I think the defense will be better, it could hardly get any worse. Better tackling, better fundamentals, more veteran leadership from Dawkins that was missed with Lynch and Al, in-game adjustments, CBs playing closer to WRs, all that alone would be an improvement. I have faith in Nolan.

I'd take 10 rookies, Champ and no Nate friggin' Webster before what we've seen last year.

MasterShake
07-23-2009, 12:08 PM
i just thought i would share my theory on teams getting "dissed" by the "experts" and media in general.
it always seems like when the broncos are expected to be really good,they under achieve and when they are under dogs they play better.
ive always been a proponent of doing your talking on the field.
so i was thinking this could be a thread to post comments and articles by media types that say were gonna suck! kinda like bulliten board quotes that teams hang in the locker room to fire up the team.

that being said i stumbled across kirwins rankings on nfl.com and he has us 27th.....WHAT?
i know we were 8-8 and arent favored to win the superbowl by any stretch.but 27TH?
i mean he has the
rams 2-14 in 08'
browns 4-12
cincy 4-11-1
seattle 4-12
gb 6-10
jax 5-11
all ahead of us
sure we took a hit at qb (maybe,or orton might be better suited to our new scheme).but we likely upgraded our running game ,special teams and defense
and it took a monumental collapse for us not to win the division with arguably the worst defense in team history,so i just dont see how suddenly there are only 5 teams in the nfl expected to be worse than the broncos.
thoughts?:salute:

I'm a big homer, but I think that ranking is about right as it stands RIGHT NOW. Those teams he has above us did not go through the remodeling we did, and are going to play easier schedules than us from what I can guess based on last year.

The Broncos are right where I want them. Under the radar and sitting pretty at 0-0. When and if they start churning out wins, they will surprise everyone but themselves and me. Until we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, you gotta have some faith. Hate to bring it up, but look at the Chargers last year. They dug deep when things looked the worst and got to have a little playoff experience.

No matter what this year, I want to win most of our home games (if we go 6-10, 6 of those ******** better be at home), and the games we lose had better be reasonable. If I see anymore 2 td+ losses I'm gonna be sick.

I'm hoping for the best this year, but no matter who some schmuck ranks us the Broncos will still be my favorite team. They were when Reeves, Philips, or Shanahan were coaching. They were when Elway, Griese, Plummer, and Cutler were QB's. And they are going to be MY team with McDaniels and Orton. These so called NFL predictions carry as much weight as some dumb hack astrologist. One of them once told me my stolen bike was in the basement of the Alamo. Turns out the Alamo doesn't have a basement.

Oh, and we better sweep the Raiders and Chiefs and at least split with the Chargers this year.

Mephisto
07-23-2009, 12:10 PM
I agree with the OP. Seems we always do better when we're predicted to be severe underdogs. I've read the entire thread and many, many others just like it. I'd put the analysis I've read here above any of the so-called experts, but really we're all just talking out of our asses. I'm all but salivating to see what this team can or can't do on Sept 13th. Longest. Offseason. Ever. :salute:

Simple Jaded
07-23-2009, 07:14 PM
I never denied McDaniels the benefit of the doubt when it comes to coaching QB's, that's the only hope I have for this situation. Kyle Orton is a nothing QB, a Dime-o-Dozen Journeyman that is somewhere between an ideal backup and marginal starter.......he'll need a QB coach like McDaniels to turn him into something more than that.

Plain and simple.......

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
07-24-2009, 12:08 PM
kinda like when we came out of the gate 3-0 last year and thought we had something goin'
only to find out we still had a ways to go.
i think we are moving in the right direction.
and no matter what its gonna be an exciting year watching a whole new team !:salute:

AH The memories

T.K.O.
07-24-2009, 12:56 PM
I never denied McDaniels the benefit of the doubt when it comes to coaching QB's, that's the only hope I have for this situation. Kyle Orton is a nothing QB, a Dime-o-Dozen Journeyman that is somewhere between an ideal backup and marginal starter.......he'll need a QB coach like McDaniels to turn him into something more than that.

Plain and simple.......

its odd how so many have deemed orton as a back up or marginal player ,when he has been stuck on a team that has marginal at best recievers,and a "super conservative" offensive scheme.
not to mention he has a pretty good win /loss record.
the guy has the same starting experience as cutler and everyone talks about how cutler is just beginning to reach his potential.
meanwhile the judgement has been made that orton is never going to be any good.
orton was awesome in college and set many school records had a similar college career to drew brees. and has been bumped from starting and played injured 1/2 a season.
so why dont we give him a year or two in a good offense with talented recievers before calling his career OVER !:salute:

T.K.O.
10-22-2009, 01:32 PM
We deserve no respect. Our defense sucked last year. We didn't do enough for it to not suck this year. Regardless if you like McDaniels, he is still a ROOKIE. In that respect, we will suck. We traded in a Lamborghini for a Dodge at QB. That will make us suck.
SO why the surprise that we are picked by the experts to suck this year? Those guys are T.R.O. (Team Realistic Observations), not instafans of the new regime in Denver.

how's that ?.....i couldnt hear you:lol:

honz
10-22-2009, 01:39 PM
how's that ?.....i couldnt hear you:lol:
Owned. :salute:

topscribe
10-22-2009, 01:43 PM
First off all, the Broncos lost a Hall of Fame Head Coach and it remains to be seen if Doogie will be anything more than a typical rookie at best or monumental mistake at worst.

Second, the Broncos took a huge step back at the most important position on the field, if Orton ever get's it done it will be because Doogie is the DemiGod that he and everybody else thinks he is.......and we've already covered that. Regardless of the BS that the Broncos and The Mile High Report want to sell you, the Broncos took one ginormous step back with the Cutler trade, Kyle Orton is not better suited for anything but a shave.

Third, obviously Nolan is a huge upgrade over Slowik, but that's saying next to nothing, Slowik was thoroughly pathetic in every conceivable way and the worst thing to ever happen to this team from a competitive standpoint, Nolan would have to be catatonic or Brain-dead 16 weeks out of the season to not improve over Slowik.......having said that, Nolan's defenses in SF were far from great most of the time and pretty much sucked at other times! And so far, his personnel decisions, to the extent he's been involved in acquiring talent, have been thoroughly underwhelming.

Fourth, 64% of Denver's starting offense has less than 4 years of NFL experience, this showed noticeably last season when 3/4's of the starting offense had less than 3 years of NFL experience, and with the installation of the most complex offensive scheme known to man, that inexperience doesn't help much.

Fifth, let's be honest, the talent level on defense is still as bad as any team in the NFL and the ST's again figures to feature a lot of young/inexperienced players and will be coached by a guy who has a whopping 3 seasons as a ST's coordinator.

Add to that a brutal schedule and a possible suspension of Denver's most explosive offensive weapon and you can see why Denver isn't getting a lot of respect.......to be honest, the only ones buying what the Broncos are shoveling is you, the Denver Broncos fan, just like you always do (No offense).

Doogie may turn out to the be the Second Coming of Bill Belicheat, but so far, he has given objective NFL observers zero reason to take that leap of faith.......


I never denied McDaniels the benefit of the doubt when it comes to coaching QB's, that's the only hope I have for this situation. Kyle Orton is a nothing QB, a Dime-o-Dozen Journeyman that is somewhere between an ideal backup and marginal starter.......he'll need a QB coach like McDaniels to turn him into something more than that.

Plain and simple.......



Hey Link, do you remember this? ^^^

BTW, I gotta free gift for you:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Goofies/eating_crow_feature.jpg


No need to thank me. What are friends for? :beer:

-----

Northman
10-22-2009, 04:41 PM
I never denied McDaniels the benefit of the doubt when it comes to coaching QB's, that's the only hope I have for this situation. Kyle Orton is a nothing QB, a Dime-o-Dozen Journeyman that is somewhere between an ideal backup and marginal starter.......he'll need a QB coach like McDaniels to turn him into something more than that.

Plain and simple.......


9 TD's, 1 INT (hail mary which is really nothing). I think its safe to say it has worked thus far.

TXBRONC
10-22-2009, 05:41 PM
9 TD's, 1 INT (hail mary which is really nothing). I think its safe to say it has worked thus far.

It's hard to argue with Orton success in this system. He's gotten better as the season has worn on and especially over the last four weeks it's been the most noticeable to me.

sneakers
10-22-2009, 05:45 PM
I don't care.....just keep winning, we haven't done anything yet.

camdisco24
10-22-2009, 06:37 PM
I don't care.....just keep winning, we haven't done anything yet.

You sound just like McD!
haha I like it.

Thanks for bumping this thred, it hilarious.