Broncos fire GM Brian Xanders after three years in Denver

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Barely a week after the NFL draft, the Broncos today fired general manager Brian Xanders, according to an NFL source. Xanders was in his fourth year in the position.

Xanders helped spearhead the Broncos' draft in 2011, but executive vice president John Elway took on a more prominent role this year after getting his feet wet in his first year on the job.

Xanders came to the Broncos as assistant general manager in 2008 under head coach Mike Shanahan. He was promoted to general manager the next season and served in that role under head coach Josh McDaniels before working alongside Elway and head coach John Fox last season. Xanders worked 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons in a variety of coaching, player personnel and football operations positions.


rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20568607/broncos-fire-gm-brian-xanders-after-three-years

[MOtorboat]

That was sudden.

[RebelRocker]

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20568607/broncos-fire-gm-brian-xanders-after-three-years

I was just going to post this. Odd timing for firing a GM. I have a feeling that Elway and the FO want Matt Russell to be the GM and didn't run the risk of eventually losing him to another team for a higher FO position ala losing Allen to the Raiders.

[drewloc]

That was sudden.

Definitely agree. I didn't see this coming at all. From the article it sounds like both wanted to go separate ways.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

That was sudden.

Totally agree - the timing is somewhat of a shock.

[Simple Jaded]

Halle-F'n-lujah.......

[Traveler]

I was just going to post this. Odd timing for firing a GM. I have a feeling that Elway and the FO want Matt Russell to be the GM and didn't run the risk of eventually losing him to another team for a higher FO position ala losing Allen to the Raiders.

Or maybe he got fired for not getting the max amount in trade value during the draft. Does this mean Elway becomes the GM too?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Following a meeting Monday morning with front-office boss John Elway, Broncos general manager Brian Xanders and the team have mutually decided to part ways.

"It was tough because I have a great deal of respect for Brian as a football man but also as a person," Elway said. "Even more so as a person. He was very helpful to me in this first year getting acclimated back to the NFL. I owe him a lot. Just from the conversation we had, we just thought for his career and for the Broncos we felt that now was the best time to go a different way."

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20568607/broncos-fire-gm-brian-xanders-after-three-years

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

Broncos will not replace the position. Elway is essentially the GM anyway

[Nomad]

Surprised John kept him longer than he did!

[elsid13]

Somehow Xander ****** something up big time and that screwed the franchise. Must of been a draft mistake.

[MOtorboat]

Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

Broncos will not replace the position. Elway is essentially the GM anyway

*insertmoneyconspiracy*

Bowlen is broke!

[Northman]

Surprised John kept him longer than he did!

Yea, was never a Xanders fan anyway.

[Nomad]

*insertmoneyconspiracy*

Bowlen is broke!

This hadn't crossed my mind, but now that you mention it:ponder::lol:

[claymore]

Elway's contstantly upgrading.

[Buff]

Translation: "Brian, we'll create another position for you because you've been a loyal soldier, but it won't be anything approaching general manger... Because, let's face it, you've never been more than a GM in title only."

That is especially evident after announcing that we're not replacing that position. Elway is de facto GM, and there were too many cooks in the kitchen. No reason to pay Xanders GM money, and he probably had no desire to take a job (demotion) under Matt Russell on the personnel side.

[DenBronx]

So can we stop saying EFX now and just say EF???

What the EF....

[LawDog]

So can we stop saying EFX now and just say EF???

What the EF....

Ef'n Broncos
EF-O
Foxway
ElFox
???

[DenBronx]

This move kinda threw me for a loop though. Deffinitely odd timing and I thought everything was OK. Maybe Elway didnt like Xanders choices or found out some inside job malfunction on Xanders part that we will never know about. I know Josh made bad draft mistakes but Xanders was also there and possibly the Broncos are not happy in the value they have got in return for trades. Xanders could have promised the world that certain players would have been there and they wernt on draft day. I remember hearing Elways comments on how they felt "their guy" was going to be there at 25 and wasnt. It was around 3 prospects they wanted and all 3 got picked.

[DenBronx]

Ef'n Broncos
EF-O
Foxway
ElFox
???

EF it man...

Double J ....John and John.....IIJ ....DoubleJ has a ring to it.

[dogfish]

woooo!!


what up now, tned??

:lol::lol:

[DenBronx]

Hey Dogfish, I hear that Ted Sunquist has an interview with us tomorrow.

[iLands]

This is surprising.

I always figured Xanders would stick around until Elway needed a scapegoat.

[dogfish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeTgx_pj6m8


where's G? let's get this goin'. . . .

[dogfish]

This is surprising.

I always figured Xanders would stick around until Elway needed a scapegoat.

you BADLY misjudged elway, then. . . don't you remember the duke on the field? guy lives to win, not to make excuses. . .

[NightTerror218]

Finally, never a fan of his. But knowing Elway he will get someone to help evaluate talent and what not. He likes to have smart people around him that he can learn from. He must have learned everything Xanders knew. Only took a year, quick learner or Xanders did not know much.

[pnbronco]

It wasn't me...I didn't make him a quilt....:lol:

[Dapper Dan]

I'm really surprised. It seems like odd timing.

So before the season starts do you think Elway will call plays too?

No matter what, I have a lot of faith in John Elway. He really cares about the Denver Broncos and will do anything he can to win.

[Tned]

woooo!!

what up now, tned??

:lol::lol:

If I wasn't so tired from 20+ hours of traveling back grim Germany, I would have a good comeback...

Sent from my Motorola Atrix using Forum Runner

[jhildebrand]

I was just going to post this. Odd timing for firing a GM. I have a feeling that Elway and the FO want Matt Russell to be the GM and didn't run the risk of eventually losing him to another team for a higher FO position ala losing Allen to the Raiders.

Why is it odd? This is when teams usually make moves with their draft personnel.

I posted somewhere before the draft that something could be in the works with the promotion of Matt Russell. Today that same sentiment has been echoed by Alfred, DMAC, and Sandy.

This was long overdue.

[dogfish]

If I wasn't so tired from 20+ hours of traveling back grim Germany, I would have a good comeback...

Sent from my Motorola Atrix using Forum Runner

don't bother-- let's just celebrate. . .

get peyton manning, get rid of xanders. . . man, i should go buy a lottery ticket. . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Joel Stevens ‏ @Joel_right_now

@VicLombardi did any of it have to do with his poor return on trades during the draft?

Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

@Joel_right_now Nah, too many cooks in the kitchen. Elway made all the decisions anyway. They owe Xanders a year's salary.

Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

Broncos made several front office changes the last two months. Replaced their cap guy with a former agent. Promote Matt Russell. Now this

[jhildebrand]

Somehow Xander ****** something up big time and that screwed the franchise. Must of been a draft mistake.

I said the Broncos got caught off guard in the draft. Elway was completely not himself after round one of the draft. Fox was originally scheuduled to speak. Elway did the speaking.

Myself, Cugel and others posted on his demeanor.

Going into the draft there was a lot of talk that they loved their board so much so that they went golfing the day before.

Denver had DeCastro as their #1 prospect and got caught way off guard when he was gone.

[jhildebrand]

I LOVE this move.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

"John and I had a lengthy conversation today and we mutually decided to part ways for the best interest of my career aspirations,"’’ Xanders said. "I appreciated everything that Pat Bowlen has done for the Broncos and for bringing me here in 2008. It was great working with Coach John Fox. I'm telling you, he's a great coach to work with. And it was great working with John Elway."

The general manager position had long been Xanders' dream position but his first big gig never came with the final-say authority on roster personnel. Shanahan had final say in 2008, McDaniels had the power in 2009-10 and then Elway was hired to take control of the front office in 2011.

"No question, I think everybody would like to have that position with that type of control, especially a general manager," Elway said. "That was something we discussed. Hopefully, someday Brian will be in that position where he is making all the decisions in the end. That is a desire of his. He knows a lot of people in this league and is well-respected in the league."

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20568607/broncos-fire-gm-brian-xanders-after-three-years

[dogfish]

"No question, I think everybody would like to have that position with that type of control, especially a general manager," Elway said. "That was something we discussed. Hopefully, someday Brian will be in that position where he is making all the decisions in the end. Preferrably in Oakland or Kansas City."


:laugh:

[iLands]

you BADLY misjudged elway, then. . . don't you remember the duke on the field? guy lives to win, not to make excuses. . .

Often, plausible deniability is needed to get that chance to win and allow the institutions you build to take root. The goal is to use each piece of capital wisely in advancement of a larger goal.

Whether you believe so or not, this marks the loss of EF's greatest trump card and was a huge expenditure of strategic capital.

I'm really curious to read about this whole ordeal from the inevitable Denver Post articles in the future.

This front office has been patient and making a lot of forward-thinking choices. I can't wait to learn more about this decision.

[dogfish]

Often, plausible deniability is needed to get that chance to win and allow the institutions you build to take root. The goal is to use each piece of capital wisely in advancement of a larger goal.

Whether you believe so or not, this marks the loss of EF's greatest trump card and was a huge expenditure of strategic capital.

I'm really curious to read about this whole ordeal from the inevitable Denver Post articles in the future.

This front office has been patient and making a lot of forward-thinking choices. I can't wait to learn more about this decision.

elway isn't worried about plausible deniability. . . he intends to win, and not find himself in a position where he needs to make excuses. . . replacing xanders gives us the best chance to win. . . keeping an incompetent member on your team just to use him as a scapegoat is setting yourself up for failure-- far smarter to replace him with a qualified individual, and set yourself up for success. . . xanders just isn't a top personnel evaluator-- he was far more a laibility than he was any type of capital. . . elway has gotten more than enough accolades in his life, and earned more than enough money. . . he took this job because he loves football and has a burning competitive drive-- he doesn't need to play a bunch of office politics. . . JMO. . .

[iLands]

Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi
I'm told the Broncos have considered this move for some time. Wanted to wait until after the draft. Tough biz.

[Simple Jaded]

It's a celebration, Bitches! Show Charlie Murphy your titties.......

[BroncoStud]

I wonder what Xanders screwed the pooch on...

Or maybe this just means that Elway and Fox are so attached at the hip they didn't need or want Xanders messing in their business. Either way I'm not the least bit saddened by this, Xanders was part of some of the worst personnel moves in Denver Broncos history between 2008-2010. Good riddance.

[bcbronc]

I'm just glad we got one last draft from the Xman.

[iLands]

Good bye, EFX.

Hello, El Fox!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


In the past year it became clear the Broncos were top heavy. Elway and coach John Fox have a terrific working relationship and there is a great comfort level between the two.

Simply put, there just wasn’t enough for Xanders to do. Elway is essentially the general manager and Xanders’ role was decreasing. After a little more than a year into the Elway-Fox relationship, the Broncos felt comfortable moving on with a smaller leadership core.

Mike Shanahan brought in Xanders in 2008 and was promoted to general manager early in the Josh McDaniels’ era in 2009. When Elway became the leader in Denver, Xanders’ future was clear.

This decision is another sign that the Broncos are Elway's team.

full article - http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/43828/no-room-for-xanders-in-denver

[dogfish]

props to whoever rated this a five star thread. . . :lol:

[jhildebrand]

Often, plausible deniability is needed to get that chance to win and allow the institutions you build to take root. The goal is to use each piece of capital wisely in advancement of a larger goal.

Whether you believe so or not, this marks the loss of EF's greatest trump card and was a huge expenditure of strategic capital.

I'm really curious to read about this whole ordeal from the inevitable Denver Post articles in the future.

This front office has been patient and making a lot of forward-thinking choices. I can't wait to learn more about this decision.

Their biggest scapegoat if they needed one was one Timothy Tebow. It would have been easy to keep him as the starter with the vocal fanbase and say they were placating the fans.

Elway and company aren't about that. They will succeed or fail and it will be all theirs.

I like that.

[dogfish]

Their biggest scapegoat if they needed one was one Timothy Tebow. It would have been easy to keep him as the starter with the vocal fanbase and say they were placating the fans.

Elway and company aren't about that. They will succeed or fail and it will be all theirs.

I like that.

yea, covering your ass is only first priority for guys who doubt their own ability to get the job done. . .

elway put it pretty bluntly; "we're going with Plan A". . .

[jhildebrand]

yea, covering your ass is only first priority for guys who doubt their own ability to get the job done. . .

elway put it pretty bluntly; "we're going with Plan A". . .

There is little doubt, if any, in their convictions. He will get all the credit or all the blame.

It is refreshing after shanahan was scapegoating DC's and Plummer, McD scapegoated, not Elway.

[Northman]

If I wasn't so tired from 20+ hours of traveling back grim Germany, I would have a good comeback...

Sent from my Motorola Atrix using Forum Runner

No you wouldnt. Nobody comes back from being axed by Elway. :D

[MOtorboat]

Xanders' little media tour blaming all the bad things in McDaniels and all the hopeful things on team pride in 2010 always seemed like scapegoating to me. And I guarantee that was orchestrated by Elway, not Xander's, so I guess I think it's a little unfair for people to act as if the current regime doesn't throw people under the bus. They did in 2010 when they retained Xanders and they likely will now that he's gone.

[Magnificent Seven]

Wow. That's all I have to say about that...

[dogfish]

Xanders' little media tour blaming all the bad things in McDaniels and all the hopeful things on team pride in 2010 always seemed like scapegoating to me. And I guarantee that was orchestrated by Elway, not Xander's, so I guess I think it's a little unfair for people to act as if the current regime doesn't throw people under the bus. They did in 2010 when they retained Xanders and they likely will now that he's gone.

xanders absolutely threw mcdaniels under the bus. . . but what makes you think he needed elway to tell him to take steps to preserve his own reputation? that could just as easily (more easily, occham's razor would say) have been xanders' own instinct for self-preservation. . .

furthermore, i would say that the current FO's more than fair treatment of kyle orton is solid evidence that they treat people well-- if xanders gets thrown under the bus, most likely it will be for legit cause. . .

[MOtorboat]

xanders absolutely threw mcdaniels under the bus. . . but what makes you think he needed elway to tell him to take steps to preserve his own reputation? that could just as easily (more easily, occham's razor would say) have been xanders' own instinct for self-preservation. . .

furthermore, i would say that the current FO's more than fair treatment of kyle orton is solid evidence that they treat people well-- if xanders gets thrown under the bus, most likely it will be for legit cause. . .

Because he went on the media tour after he met with Elway and was retained. He hasn't been that public in his entire three year run as de facto GM. If he never was in charge, as we all suspected anyway, and now know to be true, why would Elway allow him to make that little media tour?

[dogfish]

Because he went on the media tour after he met with Elway and was retained. He hasn't been that public in his entire three year run as de facto GM. If he never was in charge, as we all suspected anyway, and now know to be true, why would Elway allow him to make that little media tour?

he's done interviews on 104.3 the fan a number of times over the past year or so. . . he's painfully awkward, and i would bet he avoids the media of his own voilition-- still, he has done at least some public speaking since then. . . the day before last year's draft, xanders was the guy getting interviewed on NFL network. . .

but, even if i do accept your speculation at face value, why does elway "allowing" the media tour automatically equate to elway ordering the media tour? the benefits to xanders personally were greater than the benefits to the broncos. . .


doesn't matter, in any case. . . he's gone, for whatever reason. . . it will be interesting to see where his career goes from here. . . if he's the bright up-and-comer that some here make him out to be, he'll doubtlessly get a good opportunity in the near future. . . if he's the flunky i think he is, this was most likely his high point and he'll fade away or get buried as a minor functionary somewhere. . .

[WTE]

Or maybe he got fired for not getting the max amount in trade value during the draft.

I would agree with that!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The general manager position had long been Xanders' dream position but his first big gig never came with the final-say authority on roster personnel. Shanahan had final say in 2008, McDaniels had the power in 2009-10 and then Elway was hired to take control of the front office in 2011.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20568607/broncos-brian-xanders-agree-part-ways-after-four-years

[MOtorboat]

he's done interviews on 104.3 the fan a number of times over the past year or so. . . he's painfully awkward, and i would bet he avoids the media of his own voilition-- still, he has done at least some public speaking since then. . . the day before last year's draft, xanders was the guy getting interviewed on NFL network. . .

but, even if i do accept your speculation at face value, why does elway "allowing" the media tour automatically equate to elway ordering the media tour? the benefits to xanders personally were greater than the benefits to the broncos. . .

Not necessarily. Elway knew that publicly distancing himself from McDaniels was a smart business move. Who else better to carry out those orders than the guy who worked with McDaniels? Elway isn't stupid. He manipulates the media and fans through the perceived notion that he can do no wrong because he is who he is. Do I think he's taking this team in the right direction? Hell yeah. Do I think he's doing it as above board as he claims, or as many think? Hell no. Am I OK with that? Hell yes.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Who knows - maybe the Saints will have an opening for a GM, and the Broncos owe Xanders a years salary.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

"John and I had a lengthy conversation today and we mutually decided to part ways for the best interest of my career aspirations,’’ Xanders said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/xanders-broncos-general-manager-023008499--nfl.html

If this is true, he wants to be where he can be the GM, not just in title.

[Shananahan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/xanders-broncos-general-manager-023008499--nfl.html

If this is true, he wants to be where he can be the GM, not just in title.
Imagine that.

[BroncoJoe]

Not suprised, other than the timing. On second thought, releasing after the draft does make sense, as opposed to prior to...

[BigDaddyBronco]

About 16 months too late, but I'll take it.

It's all on Elway's shoulders now, that hasn't been a bad place to be in the past. We'll see how things turn out...

[BORDERLINE]

crazy news. The Truth will eventually come out.

EF it!!!! I like the way that sounds

[ShaneFalco]

so who picked the picks this year.... im so confused....was is it elway or xander?

[Jsteve01]

supposedly it all fell on Elway's shoulders. I heard someone on another board trying to sell the idea that X wanted Martin at 31 and he and Elway had a big argument over it.

[ShaneFalco]

lol i wish we did take martin at 31. alot more reliable then hillman who we basically only picked for Kick returns.

[Dapper Dan]

so who picked the picks this year.... im so confused....was is it elway or xander?

Depends on if it works out or not.

If it works, it's whoever you like. If it doesn't, I'll go with Josh McDaniels.

[Northman]

Xanders wanted Weeden at 31. There, i started a rumor so lets run with it.

[Dapper Dan]

Xanders wanted Weeden at 31. There, i started a rumor so lets run with it.

I heard Elway would only pick one player in the first, Andrew Luck. And when that didn't happen he wanted to trade out. Which started the argument with Xanders. Then Elway punched Xanders with his Super Bowl rings. And John Fox almost pulled a hamstring in all of the excitement.

[bcbronc]

Elway kept a GM around to show him the ropes, now he's been there done that. Move makes sense for both parties.

[Jsteve01]

lol i wish we did take martin at 31. alot more reliable then hillman who we basically only picked for Kick returns. lmao have you watched his film? Im on record as saying I'd have preferred not to use a pick to move up and stand pat with Turbin or Miller in our original slot, but hillman has some great tape and he never returned kicks in college.

[Chef Zambini]

tuten, goodman, tebow xanders, good riddense to all!
elway taking out the trash, the incompetent and the distractions.
I said all along that X was just a cap / fiscal guy, with no real personnel background.
an accountant can replace him !

[TimHippo]

supposedly it all fell on Elway's shoulders. I heard someone on another board trying to sell the idea that X wanted Martin at 31 and he and Elway had a big argument over it.

I could see that. It did seem odd that the draft basically fell apart and the Brockweiler pick seemed strange, especially so high. Elway knew that Dougggg Martin is too slow, glad he put his foot down and didn't let X have his way.

[Mannway187]

The meeting went something like this:
Elway: Brian you know how much I respect you as a person right?

Xanders: Uhuh

Elway: You have been a tremendous help to me since I took over here and for that I'll always be gratefull. You know this to right?

Xanders: Uhuh

Elway: And you know how much we appreciate all the hard work you put into the draft right?

Xanders: Uhuh

Elway: Brian, you have so much experience can I ask you one question?

Xanders: Sure John, Whats on your mind?

Elway: How did you ever get this far being so incompetent? I mean it Brian, you really suck at what you do. Thats why we feel that maybe this is a good time for you to kick rocks.


Xanders: HUH

Elway: Do you know how hard it has been for me to come to the office every day knowing that your still here. Every day wondering what your going to screw up today. I really believe that Josh could have been successful here had he not had to cover for you every day. Pat told me that he thought he fired you along with Mike but you just kept showing up. Well Brian this is your last day so don't come in tommorrow. And don't worry we will give you a glowing letter of recommendation that you can pass out with your resume. Lets tell they press that this was a mutual decision. OK Brian?

Xanders: I guess

Elway: Good now get your miserable incompetent ass out of my building. Maybe you can go work for Bill in New England, in fact I'll call him for you right now.

Xanders: Can I keep the phone?

Elway: NO

Xanders: Can I keep the car?

Elway: Nope, give Pat the keys back.

Xanders: This isn't fair:

Elway: NOT FAIR? Tough. Lifes not fair so get over it. But do it on your way out.

[TXBRONC]

That was sudden.

No kidding.

[MileHighCrew]

Interesting timing but with the new cap guy in town there was no need for him.

[G_Money]

Xanders was a salary cap dude who believed himself to be a talent assessor. John promoted two guys, one for each half of that role, and kicked Brian to the curb. :D

I still think there was a very serious draft argument on day one, but all the groundwork had already been laid for this. I didn't expect it til his contract was up next year, honestly - looks like draft day accelerated it. Brian wants to call shots, there's no way in hell Elway is letting him do that, so sayonara.

Hopefully this draft winds up better than I think and next year is smoother, more productive sailing.

But g'bye Xanders. I won't miss ya at all. :salute:

~G

[Tned]

I could see that. It did seem odd that the draft basically fell apart and the Brockweiler pick seemed strange, especially so high. Elway knew that Dougggg Martin is too slow, glad he put his foot down and didn't let X have his way.

Not real sure about the "draft basically fell apart" comment. There is zero indication that the draft didn't go there way. While they might have jumped on one of the top three tackles or Decastro if they had unexpectedly fallen to them at 25, but short of that, it seems they did exactly what they had planned.

[Fullback32]

With the other move Elway made in the front office, this didn't really surprise me. Xanders didn't really seem to have much of a job left anyway. From what I understand there will be no filling of the GM position. I guess Elway will pull a Tex Schramm and be President and GM. When we really ned to get worried is if he decides to buy the team from Bowlen and become a Jerry Jones - Owner, President and GM. *shivers*

[Chef Zambini]

we wont miss xanders.
But I am concerned about JE souronding himself with scared little yes men, and the decision making becoming a one man show.
this draft reflects a locked down fixation, it has JEs fingerprints all over it ! and unless JE is the second coming of ozzie newsome, this emporor scenario could be troubling.
my siug remains intact.
tuten.
goodman
tebow
xanders.
all good moves, and i am happy with their replacements.
i gotta believe that JEs plans for replacing X will be a move in the right direction too !

[Mannway187]

How long will it be before we are introduced to the new GM? Not long. The next Broncos GM has been working with the Broncos and Elway his entire life. As a tribute to his late father John would like you all to meet the next Broncos HMFIC:::None other than Jack Elway!!!!His first official decision as HMFIC is to bring aboard his old college friend to back up 'the franchise'. Xanders didn't like the move and now he's gone. Anybody else got something to say?? NO??

Now make us proud Jackie boy!!!

Gotta love it when a plan comes together!!!

[NightTerror218]

How long will it be before we are introduced to the new GM? Not long. The next Broncos GM has been working with the Broncos and Elway his entire life. As a tribute to his late father John would like you all to meet the next Broncos HMFIC:::None other than Jack Elway!!!!His first official decision as HMFIC is to bring aboard his old college friend to back up 'the franchise'. Xanders didn't like the move and now he's gone. Anybody else got something to say?? NO??

Now make us proud Jackie boy!!!

Gotta love it when a plan comes together!!!

only problem then is Osweiler completely tanks then they wont get rid of him or draft replacement. He is too close to Jack.

[Cugel]

Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi
I'm told the Broncos have considered this move for some time. Wanted to wait until after the draft. Tough biz.

Here's the bottom line:

Xanders SHOULD have been fired when they got rid of McMoron. I never for one minute believed the Official Line coming out of Dove Valley that "the Devil (McDaniels) made me do it!" -- all the screwed up draft choices and personnel moves. McDaniels himself stated publicly that Xanders was equally responsible and that the attempt to blame McDaniels for everything was just to white-wash Xanders.

But, Xanders was Joe Ellis' crony and Ellis had Pat Bowlen's ear and was Bowlen's crony. The official word came from Joe Ellis that "it wasn't Xanders' fault and we want to give him a chance to be a real GM."

Well Elway couldn't buck Joe Ellis right away so he toed the company line. He took a year with Xanders and the organization he inherited to learn the ropes.

But, after the success Elway's had in establishing himself as the unquestioned head of this organization, especially signing Peyton Manning, he can start making the institutional changes he wants.

And these are the changes:


Elway's biggest off-field moves seemingly have been made to streamline the Broncos'' football operations. He promoted Matt Russell from director of college scouting to director of player personnel, which means he oversees talent both on the NFL and college level. Elway also hired former agent Mike Sullivan to become the team's new man in charge of contract negotiations and the salary cap.

"It is a streamline; we're not adding anybody (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20568607/broncos-brian-xanders-agree-part-ways-after-four-years),"'' Elway said. "Brian has a great heart and is a loyal guy. He's the type of guy who would give you the shoe off his foot. This is the worst part of this business."

To sum up:

Xanders is a "loyal guy" who wants to be a "Real GM" the way that Pinochio wanted to be a real boy. Except that he's made of wood and this ain't DisneyWorld.

Elway promoted Matt Russell, the head of the college scouting department, to run his player personnel department -- a move to put a real professional in charge of evaluating player personnel.

Elway also promoted a real cap expert, Mike Sullivan to be the team's "cap-ologist" and be in charge of contract negotiations.

That didn't leave any room for Xanders and he and the team "agreed" that it was best he should leave.

Xanders was really a football "Executive" only Elway is in charge and better suited to that role anyway. Xanders isn't as good at player evaluation as Matt Russell.

By "streamlining" Elway means "we are getting rid of the dead wood." And he feels badly about it because Xanders was a loyal employee.

"I can do anything you can do, better. I can do anything better than you!"

No team is going to give Xanders the chance to screw up their organization by making all the player personnel decisions.

Finally, the Broncos apple has been De-WORMED! :beer:

[Cugel]

I still think there was a very serious draft argument on day one, but all the groundwork had already been laid for this. I didn't expect it til his contract was up next year, honestly - looks like draft day accelerated it. Brian wants to call shots, there's no way in hell Elway is letting him do that, so sayonara.

Elway referred to that argument in his interview. Because the Broncos hadn't picked yet, the argument can only have been about the decision to trade back from #31 to #36.

And who would the Broncos have drafted at #31? RB Doug Martin.

It seems clear that Elway decided to make the trade, and that either Fox or Xanders didn't like it.

But, it could just as easily have been Fox who objected.

I seriously doubt that that disagreement in the War Room played any part in the decision to get rid of Xanders.

Elway was planning that move for a long-time. Xanders was dead wood and Elway had in mind several moves to promote guys with greater professional experience to take over his various roles.

This firing sweeps away the last of the old regime and leaves Elway in unquestioned control at the top of the organization. It's Elway's ship 100% now and he's the captain, which is just the way he wants it.

[slim]

That was sudden.

Not really. The writing was on the wall, Moseph.

[MOtorboat]

Not really. The writing was on the wall, Moseph.

I suppose. Just seemed like a random day to do it. I don't remember a lot of GMs getting canned in between OTAs.

[slim]

I suppose. Just seemed like a random day to do it. I don't remember a lot of GMs getting canned in between OTAs.

Yeah, that is true.

They used him to get through FA and the draft and now they are done with him. Kind of cold, but that is business.

[G_Money]

McDaniels liked to fire his a couple weeks before the draft, then whine that he didn't have a draft board.

This way's probably better. :beer:

~G

[Cugel]

I suppose. Just seemed like a random day to do it. I don't remember a lot of GMs getting canned in between OTAs.

This was the earliest they could do it without disrupting the draft.

[Chef Zambini]

the moreno contract, not the selection, is reason enough to fire xanders !

[Chef Zambini]

they fired X before he could negotiate another contract and hanstring the orgaNIZATION with more lame contracts that diminished our ability to move players in and out !

[Ravage!!!]

Strange. I thought we were near the tops in the NFL for having available cap room this offseason, allowing us to sign the biggest free-agent in FA history.

[jhildebrand]

supposedly it all fell on Elway's shoulders. I heard someone on another board trying to sell the idea that X wanted Martin at 31 and he and Elway had a big argument over it.

Their board was a COMPLETE and TOTAL disaster. They were completely confident in the board that was put together so much so that they went golfing the day before the draft. You know how many other teams went golfing? :confused:

Their man at #25 was David Decastro. That much has already been stated. They had others they liked there too but EVERYBODY was GONE. That is why Elway said the board at 36 is the same as it was at 25 because it was in complete disarray.

Xanders and McDaniels first draft had 100 players on it. They had 5 picks in the first two rounds. In all likelihood only one of those players will still be here 3 years later-Ayers. Of course he should be fired!

[Ravage!!!]

Their board was a COMPLETE and TOTAL disaster. They were completely confident in the board that was put together so much so that they went golfing the day before the draft. You know how many other teams went golfing? :confused:
and you call that a disaster? Seriously.. would you feel confident in a group that worked, watched tape, scouted, interviewed, traveled to watch players.. and didn't know what they were doing the DAY BEFORE teh draft???? Seriously??? WHat could they possibly be doing the day before that they hadn't done in the MONTHS prior??? Its silly to think that that last day of rest before the draft is where they should be doing some "extra homework" when they have been working for MONTHS. Sorry, I'm not buying that, and am more confident in guys that know they did their homework rather than having to scramble for a tiny 'stat' on some 7th round dude 24 hours prior. Your complaint sounds very petty.


Their man at #25 was David Decastro. That much has already been stated. They had others they liked there too but EVERYBODY was GONE. That is why Elway said the board at 36 is the same as it was at 25 because it was in complete disarray.
Ok... and this somehow tells you they were wrong? :confused:


Xanders and McDaniels first draft had 100 players on it. They had 5 picks in the first two rounds. In all likelihood only one of those players will still be here 3 years later-Ayers. Of course he should be fired!
Xanders is the money guy, and this has been stated time and time again.


I have no idea what Xanders is in charge of, but it sure seems a lot around here have a clear cut memo on it. Seems that people are always looking for some kind of scapegoat on something. I have no feelings for Xanders one way or the other, but I feel VERY confident that most of the complaints on him, aren't even close to being accurate.

[Beantown Bronco]

the moreno contract, not the selection, is reason enough to fire xanders !

Ummmm, what?!?

You do realize that Moreno is making near league minimum money, don't you? He's under contract this year for a measley $855K and next year, if we keep him, he'll make only $1.7 mil. If he somehow gets it together and lights it up over the next two years, we have a club option on him for 2014.

He signed a VERY team-friendly deal that was full of incentives and light on guarantees.

[MOtorboat]

Just because they graded the prospects at 25 the same as they did the prospects at 36 doesn't mean their board was in disarray. That's just wanting to find fault in something we don't even know there needs to be blame assigned to.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

they fired X before he could negotiate another contract and hanstring the orgaNIZATION with more lame contracts that diminished our ability to move players in and out !


Elway also hired former agent Mike Sullivan to become the team's new man in charge of contract negotiations and the salary cap.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20568607/broncos-brian-xanders-agree-part-ways-after-four-years

AND

Broncos hire executive Mike Sullivan


Sullivan will direct the club's negotiating on all player contracts, manage the team's salary cap and make sure the team is in compliance with the league's collective bargaining agreement.

Before his hiring, which was announced Friday by Broncos boss John Elway, Sullivan was regarded as one of the top contract negotiators in the business. He's ushered in some of the more creative salary terms in the industry, including the guaranteed salary/option bonus structure on bigger deals.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7538515/broncos-hire-new-player-contracts-negotiator-mike-sullivan

Sullivan was hired on Feb 3, 2012

[iLands]

They were completely confident in the board that was put together so much so that they went golfing the day before the draft.



I've never heard of any work being done on the links either. :rolleyes:

[jhildebrand]

and you call that a disaster? Seriously.. would you feel confident in a group that worked, watched tape, scouted, interviewed, traveled to watch players.. and didn't know what they were doing the DAY BEFORE teh draft???? Seriously??? WHat could they possibly be doing the day before that they hadn't done in the MONTHS prior???

The same things the other teams were doing, working up different mocks to be prepared. This was the 2nd fastest 1st round of the draft. The Broncos clearly weren't prepared.



Its silly to think that that last day of rest before the draft is where they should be doing some "extra homework" when they have been working for MONTHS. Sorry, I'm not buying that,

That's precisely when you put all the extra work in you can. While their board was set and nothing could be done about that they didn't have contingency plans in the event "their guys" were gone. That's like saying a team has done all their work to get to the Super Bowl and can't possibly do any more before the big game and should just go golf. The Falcons did. Ask them, and Eugene Robinson, how that worked!


and am more confident in guys that know they did their homework rather than having to scramble for a tiny 'stat' on some 7th round dude 24 hours prior. Your complaint sounds very petty.

It sounds petty because you aren't following the line of logic. I am not saying these guys should still be watching tape and rating players. I am saying they did ONE mock as acknowledged by Elway and that was it. They didn't run an extra mock that had their guys gone. They thought the draft would unfold in such a way that one of a handful of players would be there at 25 and they were WRONG. That is something that can be easily forseen and planned for.

Don't give me this: "these guys are pros and know what they are doing and I trust that" line of bull crap. That is what it is BULL FECES. I said some similar things about McD and Xanders draft and how Moreno was a joke, Ayers was a joke, McBath, Bruton, Quinn and Smurf were JOKES of picks and people gave me the same old crap "they're the pros." How's that workin out? :confused:



Ok... and this somehow tells you they were wrong? :confused:

No it tells me I was right. I posted several times that the Broncos should pursue OL help and their board would change after the addition of Manning. They tried. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with them looking lost and acting as much after "their guys" were gone and KNOWING they were the only team of 31 golfing the day before instead of constructing alternate scenarios just in case. Afterall, it isn't like you can't go golfing after the draft :coffee:



Xanders is the money guy, and this has been stated time and time again.


I have no idea what Xanders is in charge of, but it sure seems a lot around here have a clear cut memo on it. Seems that people are always looking for some kind of scapegoat on something. I have no feelings for Xanders one way or the other, but I feel VERY confident that most of the complaints on him, aren't even close to being accurate.

Wrong. Your continued insistance to that effect doesn't make it so! Xanders was brought in by Shanahan mainly to be a cap guy. That role quickly evolved after the Shanahan firing. If Xanders was simply a cap and contract guy, why did the team make other moves PRIOR to his dismissal? :confused: They made moves prior to his firing to make X's position redundant.

You do know Xanders was in charge of the College Scouts and Pro personnel as well (to which Matt Russell was promoted-I posted before the draft the Broncos growing trust and affinity for him!). I have posted several articles in the past as to his role in the picks when others insisted as much as you and when I wanted him fired way back when.

[jhildebrand]

I've never heard of any work being done on the links either. :rolleyes:

You're right Ozzie Newsome and DeCosta were cruising 18 holes while doing their mocks :rolleyes:

Belichick has been known to hit the course the day before the draft, too :rolleyes:

The Steelers were playing putt putt.

Cincinatti (lowly Cincinatti) wasn't ready.

Andy Reid and company have always made sure to lighten things up the day before the draft. :rolleyes:

All of those teams had the best drafts. Funny how that worked. Baltimore, like Denver, traded out of the first round. Yet their draft wasn't rated 32 out of 32.

[Jsteve01]

rav I just lol at all the people who have turned their conjecture into fact. "Decastro was their guy" How do we know this? Literally none of the local sports personalities had any insight into who the pick would be and Decastro was slated to go top 20 on literally every board I saw. jhild if you're quoting dmac then you'd better find a new source because the guy is an idiot. and has zero inside information. Also go back and watch the draft The NFLN crew had reported the Broncos trade with NE long before the Decastro pick was made. Go fish

[jhildebrand]

Just because they graded the prospects at 25 the same as they did the prospects at 36 doesn't mean their board was in disarray. That's just wanting to find fault in something we don't even know there needs to be blame assigned to.

I agree with your premise, MO. If nothing was made of it following round 1 I would agree. However, Dmac, Alfred, Sandy Clough and several others doing draft coverage noted much the same. The coverage continued through the rest of the draft. Even yesterday more revelations were being made about this move i.e. The night before the draft the Broncos met with Manning at Cherry Hills golf club yet one very distinct person was missing

[Chef Zambini]

Ummmm, what?!?

You do realize that Moreno is making near league minimum money, don't you? He's under contract this year for a measley $855K and next year, if we keep him, he'll make only $1.7 mil. If he somehow gets it together and lights it up over the next two years, we have a club option on him for 2014.

He signed a VERY team-friendly deal that was full of incentives and light on guarantees.yes but if we cut him outright he represents a 3 million dollar cap hit against us THIS year! money we would not be abkle to use for other players! hence, moreno has too much value on the ledger than on the field.
his salary and his cap number are two differenty things ! The broncos are FORCED to keep moreno on the roster because he represents too great a fiscal loss if we cut him !

[Jsteve01]

You're right Ozzie Newsome and DeCosta were cruising 18 holes while doing their mocks :rolleyes:

Belichick has been known to hit the course the day before the draft, too :rolleyes:

The Steelers were playing putt putt.

Cincinatti (lowly Cincinatti) wasn't ready.

Andy Reid and company have always made sure to lighten things up the day before the draft. :rolleyes:

All of those teams had the best drafts. Funny how that worked. Baltimore, like Denver, traded out of the first round. Yet their draft wasn't rated 32 out of 32.


lol not many people loved the Broncos draft but the avg grade was a c. You found one flippin sight that rated them the worst and now that's the basis for your whole argument? You need to revise your debate tactics...they're flawed.

[Northman]

lol not many people loved the Broncos draft but the avg grade was a c. You found one flippin sight that rated them the worst and now that's the basis for your whole argument? You need to revise your debate tactics...they're flawed.

Vastly.

[Chef Zambini]

thats why people are suggesting noshow will end up on the pup list !
it will open up his roster spot and allow us to also use his cap money (not his salary) elsewhere.

[iLands]

...

I've never heard of a red herring either. :lol:

[jhildebrand]

rav I just lol at all the people who have turned their conjecture into fact. "Decastro was their guy" How do we know this? Literally none of the local sports personalities had any insight into who the pick would be and Decastro was slated to go top 20 on literally every board I saw. jhild if you're quoting dmac then you'd better find a new source because the guy is an idiot. and has zero inside information. Also go back and watch the draft The NFLN crew had reported the Broncos trade with NE long before the Decastro pick was made. Go fish

Dmac isn't my source. Sandy Clough mentioned the Decastro remark again yesterday as having come from Mike Klis. You know the guy who is at Dove Valley every day. Or are we going to now change our line on people who are at dove valley every day?

[jhildebrand]

I've never heard of a red herring either. :lol:

:lol: What are you proposing is the red herring? :confused: The Broncos went golfing to throw other teams off? Is that what you are suggesting? :lol: If it is, that is the dumbest thing I have heard.

The fact is they went golfing. Only time will tell BUT many have the Broncos draft rated poorly with USA Today's ranking them dead last BY FAR! Seems like they only threw themselves off with that beautiful herring.

[Jsteve01]

Dmac isn't my source. Sandy Clough mentioned the Decastro remark again yesterday as having come from Mike Klis. You know the guy who is at Dove Valley every day. Or are we going to now change our line on people who are at dove valley every day?

shall I post some Klis drivel for you? The guy has zero cred anymore. He's worse than a pr guy for Dove Valley. I'm convinced at this point that they feed him misinformation to throw the dogs off their trail. You might as well have mentioned Bagel Bill Williamson. The last true insider in Denver was Schefter and he's long gone.

[iLands]

:lol: What are you proposing is the red herring? :confused: The Broncos went golfing to throw other teams off? Is that what you are suggesting?

If that is the only interpretation you can derive, I am no longer surprised that you think that the links are business free.

[jhildebrand]

shall I post some Klis drivel for you? The guy has zero cred anymore. He's worse than a pr guy for Dove Valley. I'm convinced at this point that they feed him misinformation to throw the dogs off their trail. You might as well have mentioned Bagel Bill Williamson. The last true insider in Denver was Schefter and he's long gone.

Schefter has missed plenty on the Broncos as well especially after Shanahan was removed.

Don't bother. The nature of these forums is such that one minute, if the poster likes the point a writer is making, is they are credible because they are there everyday and follow the team. The next they are espousing the same line you are.

The proof is in the pudding. The Broncos hired a new person, Mike Sullivan, and promoted another, Matt Russell, prior to making their move with Xanders. If all Xanders was doing was cap an contract then all they would have needed was Mike Sullivan.

At the end of the day I don't really care. I couldn't be happier that X is gone. I wanted this after the Moreno draft.

As for my take on this draft, time will prove people like myself (and Cugel) right or wrong.

[jhildebrand]

If that is the only interpretation you can derive, I am no longer surprised that you think that the links are business free.

I am surprised you keep playing games with this instead of coming out and making a point.

I play golf. A LOT. The theory that BUSINESS is always conucted on the course is a ridiculous notion that is constantly espoused. Does some business get done? Of course. But it isn't a place of business.

Please tell me precisely what business the broncos were doing on the course. Please tell me how that would be an advantage and not a disadvantage. Please find me one other team doing the same before the draft. If it was such a place of business before the draft and a good way to conduct nfl business 24 hours prior to the draft, being the copycat league it is EVERY team would be doing it.

How come they weren't golfing the year before? Afterall, they had the 2nd pick in the draft. THEY KNEW one of their guys would be there. They didn't.

[Tned]

Here's the bottom line:

Xanders SHOULD have been fired when they got rid of McMoron. I never for one minute believed the Official Line coming out of Dove Valley that "the Devil (McDaniels) made me do it!" -- all the screwed up draft choices and personnel moves. McDaniels himself stated publicly that Xanders was equally responsible and that the attempt to blame McDaniels for everything was just to white-wash Xanders.

But, Xanders was Joe Ellis' crony and Ellis had Pat Bowlen's ear and was Bowlen's crony. The official word came from Joe Ellis that "it wasn't Xanders' fault and we want to give him a chance to be a real GM."

Well Elway couldn't buck Joe Ellis right away so he toed the company line. He took a year with Xanders and the organization he inherited to learn the ropes.

But, after the success Elway's had in establishing himself as the unquestioned head of this organization, especially signing Peyton Manning, he can start making the institutional changes he wants.

:

Where are you getting this notion that Xanders was Ellis's crony? I've never seen anything to a support that.

Sent from my Android Xoom using Forum Runner

[Jsteve01]

NFL.com C
Rotoworld D
SBNation B-
FoxSports (Czar) B-

WalterFootball B- D C B+ B+ B B-
NFLDraftScout.com C B+ B+ C- B C+ C-

it's all speculation. I didn't like our return on the trades and would have preferred to keep all our picks and not trade up for Hillman but that's nitpicking. every player they drafted had value at their slot. I can find multiple sites that rate pick projections and show you that if you like. Sheesh man what are you just looking for something to complain about

[TimHippo]

lol not many people loved the Broncos draft but the avg grade was a c. You found one flippin sight that rated them the worst and now that's the basis for your whole argument? You need to revise your debate tactics...they're flawed.

C is actually a horrible draft grade. Especially considering most analysts don't give out Ds unless you trade away all your picks for Ricky Williams. In almost all the draft grades the Broncos were bottom seven draft losers.
So you basically just proved his point.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

When the so called "experts" grade a draft - all they have to go on is a players' college career - no one has a clue how any player will do in the pros.

[NightTerror218]

I think we should have gotten more for our trades. Hell we basically go nothing from Tampa Bay to trade up. I was shocked that it only took a 4th to move up with NE. I am happy with Wolfe though, I knew we were trading down out of 1st round. But i figured they would try to stock pile picks to move around in the 2nd and 3rd. Which they did a little.

Grade them in 3 yrs.

[Beantown Bronco]

yes but if we cut him outright he represents a 3 million dollar cap hit against us THIS year! money we would not be abkle to use for other players! hence, moreno has too much value on the ledger than on the field.
his salary and his cap number are two differenty things ! The broncos are FORCED to keep moreno on the roster because he represents too great a fiscal loss if we cut him !

Not to nitpick, but he'll only count $2.5 mil on the cap if we cut him. Not $3 mil.

Either way, that's not a "huge" hit if the guy's not productive. The problem is, when he's in there, Moreno IS productive. 2600 all purpose yards and 18 TDs in basically two seasons of work behind arguably the worst run blocking OLine in the league isn't bad. Certainly not as bad as some people make him out to be. You'd swear he kicked some people's dogs here or something. He certainly wasn't the weakest link out there in 2009 and 2010.

[TimHippo]

When the so called "experts" grade a draft - all they have to go on is a players' college career - no one has a clue how any player will do in the pros.

That is something that people who have a bad draft say when they have a bad draft. At the same time these experts are getting paid and spend hours and hours studying college and pro football so according to someone that makes them more qualified then message lard posters.

[Jsteve01]

C is actually a horrible draft grade. Especially considering most analysts don't give out Ds unless you trade away all your picks for Ricky Williams. In almost all the draft grades the Broncos were bottom seven draft losers.
So you basically just proved his point.

Bring your stats. the ones I posted about were two b's to c's and a D. You are speaking in brooooooooad generalizations with literally nothing to back your assertion. You've really become a troll lately you know that?

[Jsteve01]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d828b8403/2012-NFL-Draft-grades-AFC-West?module=HP11_cp

how about these experts. Oh and Lombardi who is on the set also gave them a B. Go troll elsewhere.

[NightTerror218]

That is something that people who have a bad draft say when they have a bad draft. At the same time these experts are getting paid and spend hours and hours studying college and pro football so according to someone that makes them more qualified then message lard posters.

If they were that good then there would never be a bust in the first several rounds. They would know who is going to excel and who is going to bust. Its all guessing, assumptions and judgement.

[iLands]

If it was such a place of business before the draft and a good way to conduct nfl business 24 hours prior to the draft, being the copycat league it is EVERY team would be doing it.

How come they weren't golfing the year before?

I don't need to make a claim when you tear yourself down for me by flailing and wrenching in the wind.

You don't see the tension in the above quote taken from a single post?

[Cugel]

Because he went on the media tour after he met with Elway and was retained. He hasn't been that public in his entire three year run as de facto GM. If he never was in charge, as we all suspected anyway, and now know to be true, why would Elway allow him to make that little media tour?

This is all wrong. It was Joe Ellis who (with Pat Bowlen's approval) made the initial decision to fire McDaniels and keep Xanders.

That was how the "McDaniels did everything" official lie got started. Xanders was Joe Ellis's crony, that's how he was spared the axe in 2010.

Elway was hired by Joe Ellis & Bowlen. Xanders was part of the package when he arrived.

Bowlen wouldn't have been comfortable with Elway sweeping away Xanders as soon as he arrived and it would have been an affront to Joe Ellis. And anyway, Elway had to tread lightly until he could learn the business.

So, he wasn't going to rock the boat by getting rid of Xanders right away.

But, 1 1/2 years later Elway has established himself and is in a formidable position. The hiring of Fox has proved a great success. The feeling that the Broncos are a laughing stock in the NFL is gone. The drafts have been handled professionally, even if I and others might not think they did a particularly good job.

Still, the difference between EFX's draft efforts and that of McMoron's and Xanders' is night and day.

And Elway just landed Peyton Manning, the most coveted FA in NFL history. The realization is that probably no other GM in football could have accomplished that, but Elway.

Elway wanted to "streamline" the Broncos organization.

Just as Vic Lombardi put it, "there were too many cooks" and Elway has become the de-facto GM, and he just raised their head of college player evaluation to the head of player personnel. Plus he just raised a former agent to be his cap-evaluator and contract negotiator.

In short, he just hired two professionals to serve under him and handle all of Xanders jobs. There was no need for Xanders.

End of story.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by TimHippo
C is actually a horrible draft grade. Especially considering most analysts don't give out Ds unless you trade away all your picks for Ricky Williams. In almost all the draft grades the Broncos were bottom seven draft losers.
So you basically just proved his point.

Why is this the thread to argue that the Broncos had a "horrible draft" and assign "Grades" to their efforts before any of the players drafted ever steps on the field?! :rolleyes:

NFL Front offices don't act like that.

Elway might have been disappointed that some of the players they targeted weren't available when they drafted, but that by no means was a "disaster." And he certainly doesn't blame Xanders.

In any case, the decision to can Xanders was obviously made some time ago and the draft had nothing to do with it.

IF this draft class turns out to be busts, then Elway will bear the responsibility. But, that CAN'T be known at this point.

Elway was telling the truth when he said he's "excited" about their draft. They think they got some potential starters out of the draft. And they may be right.

If Wolfe and Hillman start that would be a decent draft. Then it's expected that Omar Bolden will return kicks and help out on special teams. Bolden is not going to start his rookie year, but he could become the nickel CB and fill in at #2 CB spot if Porter is hurt.

The later rounds are not supposed to become starters, but there's certainly a chance that Phillip Blake might ultimately displace J.D. Walton at C. And while nobody expects great things from a 5th round DE like Malik Jackson, he could get into the rotation and help out.

So, obviously their "draft grade" was severely depressed by taking a QB in the 2nd round and thereby foregoing a chance to get an impact player at that position, but they could get at least 2 and possibly more starters out of this draft and significant help on special teams.

That's not a "horrible" draft. And if Osweiler ever became the starter, even if he was no better than Orton, that would elevate the draft grade to a "B". It's hard to see it becoming an "A" draft, unless Osweiler becomes a Franchise QB, but if you have a "B" draft every year pretty soon you will become one of the elite franchises in the NFL.

So, far the Broncos have had "C+" drafts, but they got 3 starters last year and at least 1 this year and possibly more.

[FlyByU]

Yes a little house cleaning, must say it took longer then I thought it would. now we need to get rid of McCoy...

[Ravage!!!]

The same things the other teams were doing, working up different mocks to be prepared. This was the 2nd fastest 1st round of the draft. The Broncos clearly weren't prepared.
Horse crap. Why would you say they weren't prepared, because you didn't like the picks? What other evidence do you have of this ridiculous statement, because that's exactly what it is... ridiculous. CLEARLY unprepared??? Why, because you say so??

I know for a FACT that many teams take the day off prior to the draft to "relax their minds " as a GM on Serius NFL radio said. He went on and on about how he and his staff would often kick back and drink brandy the night before the draft, winding down, getting ready for a stressful few days. I know for a FACT that CEO's in the largest corporations in the nation, relax and take a day off before a event takes place. To suggest that playing golf, in ANY way, shows some kind of neglect... is ASININE at best. It's completely short minded, and completely WRONG.

I've heard you made this complaint several times, and its just completely silly. To think that our guys didn't pick the players YOU think we should have picked because they felt prepared 24 hours before the draft, is SOOOOO friggin over the top, that I'm disappointed in you. You honestly think that t hey only did one mock draft? Really? I don't give a FLYING crap about some quote from Elway, dude...that means shit. QUIT taking quotes in interviews and press conferences as fact...that will help you out a LOT. If you think that going over and over and over mock drafts the day before the draft would have helped them pick the players YOU were hoping for, then you need to step back and get away from football.

You have NO idea.. NONE... what the coaches of other teams were doing before the draft. Seriously. I bet you pull up some quote in a newspaper, and feel its going to prove your point :lol: Seriously dude... Belicheck as an example? When has Belicheck drafted well? Cinci ?

And what rating are you quoting? Who's doing the rating? Who gives a rat's ass what they rate it?

This over-the-top complaining about the draft when not a single player has taken the field is, at best, delusions of grandeur. The ex-GMs on serius TRIED not to sound rude when commenting about those that tried to talk about "Their board"... when its someone that has NEVER been in an NFL warroom, and try to pretend that they would have "done better" purely because they feel they would have.

I'm pretty confident...no... EXTREMELY confident.... that playing golf did, iN NO WAY WHATSOEVER, hinder our draft. None. Zero. Zilch.

[BroncoNut]

seems like the organizaiton was a bit topheavy when Elway was hired on. what is the responsibility of a GM in regards to the draft anyway? I thought that ultimately it was the HC

[I Eat Staples]

Finally, he should have left with McD.

[Beantown Bronco]

seems like the organizaiton was a bit topheavy when Elway was hired on. what is the responsibility of a GM in regards to the draft anyway? I thought that ultimately it was the HC

How much of a role the HC plays in the draft is a team-by-team thing, though from what I've heard, I'd actually lean towards the opposite of what you think. I have heard of several cases of teams who essentially don't let their coaches have any real say in the final decisions (Pats when Parcells was here became infamous with his "They want you to cook the dinner; at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries." comment) but I don't know of any cases where the HC has ultimate say.

[dogfish]

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4785/x350r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/x350r.jpg/)


brian xanders does not approve of this thread!

[Tned]

brian xanders does not approve of this thread!

He called me and said he thought it was good reading...

Sent from my Android Xoom using Forum Runner

[sneakers]

Get em boys

[MOtorboat]

This is all wrong. It was Joe Ellis who (with Pat Bowlen's approval) made the initial decision to fire McDaniels and keep Xanders.

That was how the "McDaniels did everything" official lie got started. Xanders was Joe Ellis's crony, that's how he was spared the axe in 2010.

Elway was hired by Joe Ellis & Bowlen. Xanders was part of the package when he arrived.

Bowlen wouldn't have been comfortable with Elway sweeping away Xanders as soon as he arrived and it would have been an affront to Joe Ellis. And anyway, Elway had to tread lightly until he could learn the business.

So, he wasn't going to rock the boat by getting rid of Xanders right away.

But, 1 1/2 years later Elway has established himself and is in a formidable position. The hiring of Fox has proved a great success. The feeling that the Broncos are a laughing stock in the NFL is gone. The drafts have been handled professionally, even if I and others might not think they did a particularly good job.

Still, the difference between EFX's draft efforts and that of McMoron's and Xanders' is night and day.

And Elway just landed Peyton Manning, the most coveted FA in NFL history. The realization is that probably no other GM in football could have accomplished that, but Elway.

Elway wanted to "streamline" the Broncos organization.

Just as Vic Lombardi put it, "there were too many cooks" and Elway has become the de-facto GM, and he just raised their head of college player evaluation to the head of player personnel. Plus he just raised a former agent to be his cap-evaluator and contract negotiator.

In short, he just hired two professionals to serve under him and handle all of Xanders jobs. There was no need for Xanders.

End of story.

Are you really trying to tell me that Bowlen hired a Vice President of Football Operations, split football and business powers between Elway and Ellis and still allowed Ellis to make football deicisions? Your stories really are fantastical.

Apparently the interview that Xanders had with only Elway at Elway's house meant nothing, too.

[Cugel]

How much of a role the HC plays in the draft is a team-by-team thing, though from what I've heard, I'd actually lean towards the opposite of what you think. I have heard of several cases of teams who essentially don't let their coaches have any real say in the final decisions (Pats when Parcells was here became infamous with his "They want you to cook the dinner; at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries." comment) but I don't know of any cases where the HC has ultimate say.

There are THREE kinds of approaches to running an NFL team.

#1 -- Coach is king. Mike Shanahan was essentially Head Coach and GM. He made all the decisions. When Ted Sundquist displeased him, he chopped off his head. A few teams have this set-up, but most do not. Few coaches are given this kind of power. Bill Belichek is the most obvious example.

Ted Sundquist politely pointed out that it causes problems because there's an inherent conflict between the roles of coach and GM.

The coach's job is to "win now" with the players he has and forget about the future. Sundquist insisted in an interview this month that most of Shanahan's draft mistakes were due to allowing his role of coach to overrule the long term interests of the team. He would fall in love with a player he wanted "Now!" and not maximize his long-term prospects.

#2 -- GM is king. Chargers GM A.J. Smith got in a fight with Marty Shottenheimer over whether to keep Drew Brees or Phillip Rivers. Smith won, Shottenheimer was fired, even though it turns out that Brees is a potential Hall of Fame QB with a SB ring already and Rivers is probably not.

Most teams have this structure. Scott Pioli in KC is an example. Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome is probably the best example.

#3 -- Team President is King, and GM and coach answer to him. Elway has this role. So does owner Jerry Jones who acts as his own GM. So did Al Davis. These teams have a ceremonial GM who advises the Team President, but does not have actual power -- like Xanders until he was fired.

Next to the "GM is king" this is the most prevalent mode in the NFL.

Elway just decided that the GM position was irrelevant since he was acting GM and he promoted the head of his college scouting department to handle Player Personnel and hired a contracts guy to manage the salary cap and player contracts, thus completely eliminating the need for a single GM like Xanders.

Any of these systems can work if you have the right man in charge. But, coach is King is probably the most difficult to make work in the long run.

Shanahan became his own worst enemy when his drafts were utter failures and he had horrible reaches for players like Terry Pierce and Darius Watts.

[Cugel]

Are you really trying to tell me that Bowlen hired a Vice President of Football Operations, split football and business powers between Elway and Ellis and still allowed Ellis to make football deicisions? Your stories really are fantastical.

Apparently the interview that Xanders had with only Elway at Elway's house meant nothing, too.

I don't know why you can't keep up to speed with what's going on in Broncos football and then complain that the obvious that every commentator knows is "fantastical." :rolleyes:

Elway was hired by Bowlen and Ellis. They already had Xanders. Ellis stated publicly that they were keeping Xanders. This was BEFORE they hired Elway.

What was Elway going to do? Immediately come in and fire Xanders?

He kept him for a year and then decided to "streamline" operations by eliminating his position as soon as he, Elway, felt comfortable handling the GM decisions.

Just as Vic Lombardi stated on Twitter.

You don't come into a new job and immediately start rocking the boat by undermining decisions made by the man who hired you. Even though Joe Ellis is not in charge of Football Operations, he DOES have Bowlen's ear and Elway wasn't going to just start off by pissing him off by firing his crony, Xanders.

Ellis wanted to give Xanders a chance to be a real GM. Ellis felt that the failures of the McDaniels regime were all McMoron's fault. Elway wasn't immediately sure of his position, and he's not going to cause a big controversy the day he walks in the door.

Just because you're ignorant about obvious facts doesn't make it a "conspiracy theory." :rolleyes:

[MOtorboat]

They were in discussions with Elway from the minute McDaniels was fired. I think it's naive and non-sensical to suggest Elway didn't want Xanders around but was forced to keep him. Elway was only coming on board if he, Bowlen and Ellis all agreed on how it would work, and there's no way they would have forced Xanders on Elway.

After the official announcement, Xanders talked about Elway asking him over for dinner, before the official announcement to discuss what his plans were for the team. You really think Elway came out of that disliking Xanders and then just playing good soldier? Doesn't seem like Elway operates like that to me, but you can think that if you want.

I love how you always twist facts and then act as if you were the only person smart enough to come up with your skewed version of the "truth."

[NightTerror218]

I think Xanders was useful to Elway as long as he offered something or had something to teach Elway. I think once Xanders usefulness was gone, aka taught elway everything he knew he was expendable.

[Softskull]

My only concern here is who tells Elway when he's wrong. Firing people that disagree with you tends to make those around you yes men. It works well when Elway is right, it's disastrous when he's wrong. This isn’t classic good management.

[dogfish]

My only concern here is who tells Elway when he's wrong. Firing people that disagree with you tends to make those around you yes men. It works well when Elway is right, it's disastrous when he's wrong. This isn’t classic good management.

yes it is. . . you have to have qualified people around you before you start giving value to their opinions. . .

[Softskull]

yes it is. . . you have to have qualified people around you before you start giving value to their opinions. . .

I get you and really hope that's the case (although I think your opinion may be jaded based on that rat ******* Xanders). It usually starts out with qualified people but later devolves into a large sucking sound (see Al Davis). I'm not saying that will happen, but it's an early concern. The good people around Elway need to be able to tell him when he's being a dumbazz and not worry about losing there job.

[Mannway187]

Why hasn't anyone picked up on the idea that the final straw for Elway and Fox was rescinding the free agent tender and letting Ryan Mcbean sign with the Baltimore Ravens. Some of you self proclaimed experts didn't think he was any good. Somebody in Baltimore disagreed. The Ravens FO seems to have a pretty good idea what it takes to build a quality defense and they think Mcbean makes their team better. Thay snatched him up even though he will not be able to play in their first three games. I think Xanders cut him loose without checking with Fox or Elway who found out when they read about him signing with the Ravens. It's a good thing that DJ wasn't in a free agent year because he probably would have cut him loose to. Mighty coincidental timing.

[Softskull]

Why hasn't anyone picked up on the idea that the final straw for Elway and Fox was rescinding the free agent tender and letting Ryan Mcbean sign with the Baltimore Ravens. Some of you self proclaimed experts didn't think he was any good. Somebody in Baltimore disagreed. The Ravens FO seems to have a pretty good idea what it takes to build a quality defense and they think Mcbean makes their team better. Thay snatched him up even though he will not be able to play in their first three games. I think Xanders cut him loose without checking with Fox or Elway who found out when they read about him signing with the Ravens. It's a good thing that DJ wasn't in a free agent year because he probably would have cut him loose to. Mighty coincidental timing.

I hope you're kidding. If I were in prison, I'd trade McBean for a pack o' smokes.

[MOtorboat]

Why hasn't anyone picked up on the idea that the final straw for Elway and Fox was rescinding the free agent tender and letting Ryan Mcbean sign with the Baltimore Ravens. Some of you self proclaimed experts didn't think he was any good. Somebody in Baltimore disagreed. The Ravens FO seems to have a pretty good idea what it takes to build a quality defense and they think Mcbean makes their team better. Thay snatched him up even though he will not be able to play in their first three games. I think Xanders cut him loose without checking with Fox or Elway who found out when they read about him signing with the Ravens. It's a good thing that DJ wasn't in a free agent year because he probably would have cut him loose to. Mighty coincidental timing.

So Brian Xanders got fired because of Ryan McBean?

I'm just disappointed Cugel didn't come up with this one. Cugs, you're slipping.

[TimHippo]

Elway referred to that argument in his interview. Because the Broncos hadn't picked yet, the argument can only have been about the decision to trade back from #31 to #36.

And who would the Broncos have drafted at #31? RB Doug Martin.

It seems clear that Elway decided to make the trade, and that either Fox or Xanders didn't like it.
.

At least on that one Elway made a genius move. Douggg Martin is just too slow for the NFL and Elway could see that despite the hype and "experts".

[Simple Jaded]

Dmac isn't my source. Sandy Clough mentioned the Decastro remark again yesterday as having come from Mike Klis. You know the guy who is at Dove Valley every day. Or are we going to now change our line on people who are at dove valley every day?
This is where I got it, Klis on sports talk radio on Friday. But take it fwiw, which isn't much coming from Klis.......

[Simple Jaded]

I think Xanders was useful to Elway as long as he offered something or had something to teach Elway. I think once Xanders usefulness was gone, aka taught elway everything he knew he was expendable.
Good thing it only takes a year for Xander's to teach everything he knows. Surprised it took that long.......

[jhildebrand]

I don't need to make a claim when you tear yourself down for me by flailing and wrenching in the wind.

You don't see the tension in the above quote taken from a single post?

Your typing a bunch of nothing. Why bother? :confused: You haven't answered a thing.

If golfing before the draft was so great and beneficial, please tell me why they didn't do it last year when they had the #2 pick and it was easy.

YOU CAN'T so spare me your word games. It is a bunch of shit. PERIOD.

The fact is there was no reason to keep Xanders when McDaniels was shown the door. This move was months in the making as showin by the Sullivan and Russell hirings.

Xanders record speaks for itself-Moreno, Ayers, Bruton, McBath, Quinn, Smurf all in the first two rounds! :eek: Then there was the Tebow trade which he waffled on publicly as to his involvement. He was the GM of record when Cutler got shipped out in a bad attempt for Cassell which is laughable.

You want some positive? He got 2 2nds for Marshall. Oh wait....

[Ravage!!!]

My only concern here is who tells Elway when he's wrong. Firing people that disagree with you tends to make those around you yes men. It works well when Elway is right, it's disastrous when he's wrong. This isn’t classic good management.

So you think the he was fired because he disagreed with JE?

[TXBRONC]

I don't know why you can't keep up to speed with what's going on in Broncos football and then complain that the obvious that every commentator knows is "fantastical." :rolleyes:

Elway was hired by Bowlen and Ellis. They already had Xanders. Ellis stated publicly that they were keeping Xanders. This was BEFORE they hired Elway.

What was Elway going to do? Immediately come in and fire Xanders?

He kept him for a year and then decided to "streamline" operations by eliminating his position as soon as he, Elway, felt comfortable handling the GM decisions.

Just as Vic Lombardi stated on Twitter.

You don't come into a new job and immediately start rocking the boat by undermining decisions made by the man who hired you. Even though Joe Ellis is not in charge of Football Operations, he DOES have Bowlen's ear and Elway wasn't going to just start off by pissing him off by firing his crony, Xanders.

Ellis wanted to give Xanders a chance to be a real GM. Ellis felt that the failures of the McDaniels regime were all McMoron's fault. Elway wasn't immediately sure of his position, and he's not going to cause a big controversy the day he walks in the door.

Just because you're ignorant about obvious facts doesn't make it a "conspiracy theory." :rolleyes:

It was reported after McDaniels fired that Elway and Bowlen had dinner together at Elway's restaurant and there they discussed Elway's future involvement with team. That looks to me like it was Bowlen that hired Elway not Ellis. Also it was reported that Xander met Elway at his home for like eight hours to discuss the future of the team. Xanders and Elway both said that was basically Xander's job interview. In other words, it was Elway's choice not Ellis'. While it's a well known fact Ellis has Bowlen's ear but I would have a hard believing that Elway putting himself in a position where there someone between him and Bowlen.

[TXBRONC]

They were in discussions with Elway from the minute McDaniels was fired. I think it's naive and non-sensical to suggest Elway didn't want Xanders around but was forced to keep him. Elway was only coming on board if he, Bowlen and Ellis all agreed on how it would work, and there's no way they would have forced Xanders on Elway.

After the official announcement, Xanders talked about Elway asking him over for dinner, before the official announcement to discuss what his plans were for the team. You really think Elway came out of that disliking Xanders and then just playing good soldier? Doesn't seem like Elway operates like that to me, but you can think that if you want.

I love how you always twist facts and then act as if you were the only person smart enough to come up with your skewed version of the "truth."

As I told Cugel I remember article that said that Elway and Bowlen met at Elway's restaurant after firing of McDaniels to talk about Elway's future involvement with Broncos. At the end of the meeting they hi-fived. From what I recall it was at that meeting Elway was hired. Ellis may have been there at the meeting I don't remember that being reported. Even if Ellis wasn't there he probably knew what Bowlen was going to do. I also I seriously doubt that Elway would put himself in a position where there was anyone above him other than the owner himself.

[BigDaddyBronco]

It was reported after McDaniels fired that Elway and Bowlen had dinner together at Elway's restaurant and there they discussed Elway's future involvement with team. That looks to me like it was Bowlen that hired Elway not Ellis. Also it was reported that Xander met Elway at his home for like eight hours to discuss the future of the team. Xanders and Elway both said that was basically Xander's job interview. In other words, it was Elway's choice not Ellis'. While it's a well known fact Ellis has Bowlen's ear but I would have a hard believing that Elway putting himself in a position where there someone between him and Bowlen.

Good, maybe Ellis is next. Anyone who was involved in hiring McDaniels should be gone. Well short of Bowlen, that is kind of hard to do.

[Cugel]

As I told Cugel I remember article that said that Elway and Bowlen met at Elway's restaurant after firing of McDaniels to talk about Elway's future involvement with Broncos. At the end of the meeting they hi-fived. From what I recall it was at that meeting Elway was hired. Ellis may have been there at the meeting I don't remember that being reported. Even if Ellis wasn't there he probably knew what Bowlen was going to do. I also I seriously doubt that Elway would put himself in a position where there was anyone above him other than the owner himself.

I don't know what this "controversy" is. Elway didn't "put himself in a position where there was someone between him and Pat Bowlen." That was the politics of the situation he inherited. And he's done the smart thing; solidify his position within the company, secure the confidence of Bowlen, play the company man, get what he felt he could from Xanders, and bide his time --- and then get rid of Xanders and assume total power when he could.

Of course Elway wanted Xanders around for a year. But, it's also obvious that he has had long term ideas about getting rid of Xanders and having the Director of Player Personnel and the Cap-guy report directly to him. This wasn't about this year's draft. Elway is making this HIS team.

And clearly there was no room for Xanders. Elway is assuming the role of GM.

And NO, Elway reports to Bowlen just as Ellis does. But, Joe Ellis, not Elway was Pat Bowlen's closest business adviser and it was Ellis whose opinion Bowlen has relied on most ever since Shanahan was fired.

If Elway had decided that he wanted to get rid of Xanders right away that would have caused problems with the organization. If you've ever worked for a big organization you know that they run on personal relationships and not strictly on the
organizational chart. The guy who has the boss's ear may have more real power than someone ahead of him on the chart.

Yes, it's Pat Bowlen's team, and HE ultimately had to be convinced to hire Elway. But, that too was Joe Ellis' idea. Just as it was Ellis' idea to keep Xanders rather than fire him like almost everybody expected to see the Broncos do when they got rid of McDaniels.

Notice that the Colts didn't just fire Jim Caldwell and the coaching staff, they started by cleaning house and getting rid of GM Bill Polian and his son Chris.

But, the Broncos didn't do that.

So, I suppose that Elway could have come in and demanded to get rid of Xanders right away but that would have caused a big immediate problem with Joe Ellis.

It's just like when Elway was interviewing coaches and said that if some prospective coach didn't want to work with Tebow, that "maybe he's not the right guy for this organization."

Similarly, if Elway didn't want to work with Xanders, maybe Joe Ellis doesn't support hiring him. And Pat Bowlen listened to Ellis more than anybody especially since his health has declined and he's taken a less active role.

Nothing has changed with Brian Xanders between 2010 and now, except that Elway no longer needs him and is now in a position of strength within the organization where he can make the decision to fire Xanders without Joe Ellis running to Bowlen and complaining about it, and having Bowlen start to question whether he made the right decision in hiring Elway.

Elway in short, has been planning this for a long time and merely took advantage of his opportunity.

I don't see anything at all controversial in all this.

[NightTerror218]

I don't know what this "controversy" is. Of course Elway wanted Xanders around for a year. But, it's also obvious that he has had long term ideas about getting rid of Xanders and having the Director of Player Personnel and the Cap-guy report directly to him. This wasn't about this year's draft. Elway is making this HIS team.

And clearly there was no room for Xanders. Elway is assuming the role of GM.

And NO, Elway reports to Bowlen just as Ellis does. But, Joe Ellis, not Elway was Pat Bowlen's closest business adviser and it was Ellis whose opinion Bowlen has relied on most ever since Shanahan was fired.

If Elway had decided that he wanted to get rid of Xanders right away that would have caused problems with the organization. If you've ever worked for a big organization you know that they run on personal relationships and not strictly on the
organizational chart. The guy who has the boss's ear may have more real power than someone ahead of him on the chart.

Yes, it's Pat Bowlen's team, and HE ultimately had to be convinced to hire Elway. But, that too was Joe Ellis' idea. Just as it was Ellis' idea to keep Xanders rather than fire him like almost everybody expected to see the Broncos do when they got rid of McDaniels.

Notice that the Colts didn't just fire Jim Caldwell and the coaching staff, they started by cleaning house and getting rid of GM Bill Polian and his son Chris.

But, the Broncos didn't do that.

So, I suppose that Elway could have come in and demanded to get rid of Xanders right away but that would have caused a big immediate problem with Joe Ellis.

It's just like when Elway was interviewing coaches and said that if some prospective coach didn't want to work with Tebow, that "maybe he's not the right guy for this organization."

Similarly, if Elway didn't want to work with Xanders, maybe Joe Ellis doesn't support hiring him. And Pat Bowlen listened to Ellis more than anybody especially since his health has declined and he's taken a less active role.

Nothing has changed with Brian Xanders between 2010 and now, except that Elway no longer needs him and is now in a position of strength within the organization where he can make the decision to fire Xanders without Joe Ellis running to Bowlen and complaining about it, and having Bowlen start to question whether he made the right decision in hiring Elway.

Elway in short, has been planning this for a long time and merely took advantage of his opportunity.

I don't see anything at all controversial in all this.

A lot of assumptions in there. Like I assume it was not Ellis's idea to bring in Elway I believe it was Bowlen's idea. Bowlen saw where the franchise was headed and did what he though was best approach the "Golden Boy" to bring back the fan base and reputation. Bowlen talked to Elway in his restaurant, Ellis did not go talk to Elway.

[Cugel]

I just occurred to me that Elway has probably always wanted to own and run an NFL team the way Jerry Jones does. Now he's in total charge of Football Operations, and unless he loses Bowlen's confidence, he really is running this team for the foreseeable future.

If things go well for him here, I wouldn't even be surprised to see Elway emerge in control as majority owner of the team at some point in the future when Bowlen decides to retire or passes away.

The dream of NFL Ownership is well beyond the possibility of most NFL players, but Elway has over $150 million from his car dealerships and a close personal relationship with Bowlen now. He would certainly win league approval if Bowlen ever decided he wanted to sell his interest to an Elway led group of investors.

That is pure speculation of course, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see it happen one day.

[Chef Zambini]

I just occurred to me that Elway has probably always wanted to own and run an NFL team the way Jerry Jones does. Now he's in total charge of Football Operations, and unless he loses Bowlen's confidence, he really is running this team for the foreseeable future.

If things go well for him here, I wouldn't even be surprised to see Elway emerge in control as majority owner of the team at some point in the future when Bowlen decides to retire or passes away.

The dream of NFL Ownership is well beyond the possibility of most NFL players, but Elway has over $150 million from his car dealerships and a close personal relationship with Bowlen now. He would certainly win league approval if Bowlen ever decided he wanted to sell his interest to an Elway led group of investors.

That is pure speculation of course, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see it happen one dayy.

thursday?

[Cugel]

A lot of assumptions in there. Like I assume it was not Ellis's idea to bring in Elway I believe it was Bowlen's idea. Bowlen saw where the franchise was headed and did what he though was best approach the "Golden Boy" to bring back the fan base and reputation. Bowlen talked to Elway in his restaurant, Ellis did not go talk to Elway.

I think you're misunderstanding. Pat Bowlen owns this team. Obviously HE has to be the one to be convinced to hire Elway. Joe Ellis is his business crony and close adviser. He relies on Ellis' advice, but whether Ellis was at the meeting or not, it was up to Elway to ultimately convince Bowlen that it was the right idea to bring him on board.

Hence the meeting. But, Joe Ellis' support was certainly very important. Elway was totally unproven. To put your faith in him as the man in charge was a big risk. The franchise was in total disarray. Sure, the fans applauded the idea, which was important.

But, if it had been the WRONG idea then Bowlen looks like an idiot for hiring an inexperienced Elway who then proceeds to run things into the ground.

That has happened before in other sports remember. Any number of former NHL greats haven't exactly turned out to be great head executives. Phil Esposito's stint with the NY Rangers comes to mind. There are numerous other examples from hockey and basketball.

[Chef Zambini]

bowlen may be the owner, but this is elways team now much as it was elways team in the 80's and 90's.
john now wears a different 'uniform' but he is still the face of the franchise and the man in charge.

[NightTerror218]

I think you're misunderstanding. Pat Bowlen owns this team. Obviously HE has to be the one to be convinced to hire Elway. Joe Ellis is his business crony and close adviser. He relies on Ellis' advice, but whether Ellis was at the meeting or not, it was up to Elway to ultimately convince Bowlen that it was the right idea to bring him on board.

Hence the meeting. But, Joe Ellis' support was certainly very important. Elway was totally unproven. To put your faith in him as the man in charge was a big risk. The franchise was in total disarray. Sure, the fans applauded the idea, which was important.

But, if it had been the WRONG idea then Bowlen looks like an idiot for hiring an inexperienced Elway who then proceeds to run things into the ground.

That has happened before in other sports remember. Any number of former NHL greats haven't exactly turned out to be great head executives. Phil Esposito's stint with the NY Rangers comes to mind. There are numerous other examples from hockey and basketball.

Elway was not some ex-player wanted to be involved. he had the arena football team experience for several years. He also owned several businesses. He is a business guy. Elways has been wanted to get involved but the fall out with Shannahan did not let it happen.

[Mannway187]

How long will it be before we are introduced to the new GM? Not long. The next Broncos GM has been working with the Broncos and Elway his entire life. As a tribute to his late father John would like you all to meet the next Broncos HMFIC:::None other than Jack Elway!!!!His first official decision as HMFIC is to bring aboard his old college friend to back up 'the franchise'. Xanders didn't like the move and now he's gone. Anybody else got something to say?? NO??

Now make us proud Jackie boy!!!

Gotta love it when a plan comes together!!!

Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Cugel]

Elway was not some ex-player wanted to be involved. he had the arena football team experience for several years. He also owned several businesses. He is a business guy. Elways has been wanted to get involved but the fall out with Shannahan did not let it happen.

I wasn't suggesting Elway had no business experience. But, Joe Ellis runs the business side of things for Bowlen and Bowlen didn't need Elway for that and he plays no role there.

Elway had no relevant experience doing what he is doing right now -- being the effective GM of the Denver Broncos and making the ultimate player personnel decisions (with the advice and counsel of his Director of Player Personnel and his cap-guy). As well as being responsible for hiring and firing the Head Coach and GM, making organizational changes to the way the Broncos are run, etc.

There was a LOT of questioning in the media when Elway came on board whether he was experienced enough to handle the job. Xanders was useful for a time.

But, now it really is Elway's team for better or worse. He's in total command of football operations and with Xanders gone there is nobody BUT him at the top.

It's obvious he forged a close relationship with his scouting team, his cap-guys and Coach John Fox and he doesn't feel he needs anybody else.

Fox and his assistant coaches are all very experienced (esp. Del Rio). They know what kind of players they want, what kind of system they want to install, and Elway is there to give them the tools and hold them accountable for the results.

Elway is currently quite happy about the direction Fox is taking this team, and for one I'd have to agree. Since they got rid of Tebow and brought in Manning, the future for the Broncos hasn't been this bright since Elway retired!

[Simple Jaded]

Speaking of Joe Ellis, next!.......

[Ravage!!!]

Man Cugel, you do a LOT of putting in your facts to meet your assumptions. I understand that people are able to draw conclusions from situations that they don't know all thats going on, but you have REALLY filled in a LOT of BIG BLANKS with pure speculation and trying your best to lay it out as fact.

[Superchop 7]

Xanders sucked.....Ellis sucks.......don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

[Softskull]

So you think the he was fired because he disagreed with JE?

We don't really know why JE fired X, but that happens to be one of the rumors. Don't get me wrong, I love what Elway has done so far. It's just a concern.

[Simple Jaded]

Maybe Elway fired Xanders because he understands that a GM that really isn't a GM is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.......

[MOtorboat]

We don't really know why JE fired X, but that happens to be one of the rumors. Don't get me wrong, I love what Elway has done so far. It's just a concern.

Elway didn't fire Xanders. Ellis fired Xanders.

Let's get that straight.

[Softskull]

Elway didn't fire Xanders. Ellis fired Xanders.

Let's get that straight.

Thanks for clearing that up. In my opinion the only person more worthless than Xanders was Ellis. Maybe we can get Elway to fire Ellis now?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Thanks for clearing that up. In my opinion the only person more worthless than Xanders was Ellis. Maybe we can get Elway to fire Ellis now?

That may prove difficult seeing as how Ellis is Elway's boss... Ellis isn't just some adviser/crony he's the President and COO. Elway is the Executive VP of player personnel... he works for Ellis.

In case you were curious as to the structure:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff-directory.html

The only person above Ellis in the organization is Bowlen himself. Ellis, rightfully, took a lot of the heat from the fans with the McDaniels hire/firing but I have no doubt that he was just as instrumental in bringing in Elway as Bowlen was. Ellis KNOWS he's not a football guy so he urged Bowlen to go and get one. Has anyone even heard his name in any of the decision making processes since Elway was brought onboard? Nope. That's the way it should be. Ellis doesn't dabble in football any more. He runs the business, Elway now runs the team (which includes the coaches and training staff). During the McDaniels era, Ellis was constantly having to make statements and perform damage control for football issues... now that's Elway's job. I haven't even heard a peep from Ellis in over a year - that's a good thing.

The Broncos now run as they should. Bowlen tells Elway, "win a Championship" and opens the checkbook, and tells Ellis, "make me some profits along the way" and then lets the two of them do their job. It's now the way it should be. Xanders was never a real GM with that kind of trust from Bowlen/Ellis or that kind of power. Elway is. Xanders was unnecessary and that's why he's now gone.

[Tned]

Yes, it's Pat Bowlen's team, and HE ultimately had to be convinced to hire Elway. But, that too was Joe Ellis' idea. Just as it was Ellis' idea to keep Xanders rather than fire him like almost everybody expected to see the Broncos do when they got rid of McDaniels.


I didn't expect Xanders to be fired when McDaniels was fired. I assumed the Broncos would make a good business decision rather than cater to populous fans on a witch hunt. McDaniels was putting in complete control when the Goodmans were fired and trying to blame Xanders or anyone else not named McDaniels for the personnel moves is simply not dealing in reality.

[Chef Zambini]

elway spent a day with xanders when he came on board. he gave X a chance to explain himself, he gave him the benefit of the doubt, and he watched him work for a year.
after the year, hes out . bottom line, we dont need him.

[Jsteve01]

This wasn't some shady deal. I for one don't hold x in the same disdain that many do. By all reports he's well respected around the league. His obvious lack of comfort in media settings is discouraging but by no means affects his ability to do the job. At the end of the day. John is running the show and X's position just wasn't needed.

[TXBRONC]

I don't know what this "controversy" is. Elway didn't "put himself in a position where there was someone between him and Pat Bowlen." That was the politics of the situation he inherited. And he's done the smart thing; solidify his position within the company, secure the confidence of Bowlen, play the company man, get what he felt he could from Xanders, and bide his time --- and then get rid of Xanders and assume total power when he could.

Of course Elway wanted Xanders around for a year. But, it's also obvious that he has had long term ideas about getting rid of Xanders and having the Director of Player Personnel and the Cap-guy report directly to him. This wasn't about this year's draft. Elway is making this HIS team.

And clearly there was no room for Xanders. Elway is assuming the role of GM.

And NO, Elway reports to Bowlen just as Ellis does. But, Joe Ellis, not Elway was Pat Bowlen's closest business adviser and it was Ellis whose opinion Bowlen has relied on most ever since Shanahan was fired.

If Elway had decided that he wanted to get rid of Xanders right away that would have caused problems with the organization. If you've ever worked for a big organization you know that they run on personal relationships and not strictly on the
organizational chart. The guy who has the boss's ear may have more real power than someone ahead of him on the chart.

Yes, it's Pat Bowlen's team, and HE ultimately had to be convinced to hire Elway. But, that too was Joe Ellis' idea. Just as it was Ellis' idea to keep Xanders rather than fire him like almost everybody expected to see the Broncos do when they got rid of McDaniels.

Notice that the Colts didn't just fire Jim Caldwell and the coaching staff, they started by cleaning house and getting rid of GM Bill Polian and his son Chris.

But, the Broncos didn't do that.

So, I suppose that Elway could have come in and demanded to get rid of Xanders right away but that would have caused a big immediate problem with Joe Ellis.

It's just like when Elway was interviewing coaches and said that if some prospective coach didn't want to work with Tebow, that "maybe he's not the right guy for this organization."

Similarly, if Elway didn't want to work with Xanders, maybe Joe Ellis doesn't support hiring him. And Pat Bowlen listened to Ellis more than anybody especially since his health has declined and he's taken a less active role.

Nothing has changed with Brian Xanders between 2010 and now, except that Elway no longer needs him and is now in a position of strength within the organization where he can make the decision to fire Xanders without Joe Ellis running to Bowlen and complaining about it, and having Bowlen start to question whether he made the right decision in hiring Elway.

Elway in short, has been planning this for a long time and merely took advantage of his opportunity.

I don't see anything at all controversial in all this.

What politics? You think Ellis basically Elway to keep Xanders on. I haven't seen anything that would convince me that happened. All I know is that the view inside the front office was that Xanders wasn't resonsible for the horrible personnel moves during McDaniels' tenure. As I mentioned before there was article about how Xanders went to Elway's house for job interview. I'm just don't understand where you get the idea that Ellis pushed for Xanders stay on board.

Where do you get the idea Bowlen had to be convinced to bring Elway back into the fold? I've been of the understanding that for years Bowlen has wanted Elway to be apart of the organization. Also I pretty sure Bowlen and Elway have long established friendship beyond football. Maybe someone like Carol or GEM could jump in here and confirm or deny that. Seriously where do you get the idea Ellis had to talk Bowlen into hiring Elway?

The Colts situation is a completely different. I've heard that Polian and Irsay were not getting along also Polian was directly responsible for the hiring of Caldwell. If Polian hadn't been fired Caldwell would have imo. Polian deserved to be fired because he's the one that team together. Caldwell is a perfect example of why coaches like to have control over player personnel. He got Polian didn't find an adequate back up quarterback.

Maybe he was planning to cut Xanders lose for quite some time but I don't know that to be a fact. We have no idea if it would have caused backlash had Elway fired Xanders last year. Personally I don't think it would have. Going with your train of thought if was bad idea to get rid of Xanders two years ago when the team only won four games how is less of a problem to fire him the following year after making the playoffs?

[Cugel]

Man Cugel, you do a LOT of putting in your facts to meet your assumptions. I understand that people are able to draw conclusions from situations that they don't know all thats going on, but you have REALLY filled in a LOT of BIG BLANKS with pure speculation and trying your best to lay it out as fact.

I can't understand how you find all this stuff "mysterious" to be honest. What exactly was Elway's role going to be with Xanders sitting there and playing GM?

Meet with Xanders, Fox and the cap-guys once a month and sign the checks? Have lunch with Bowlen? Nod wisely when Xanders decides something?

John Elway wanted to be his own GM and now he is. The very word "streamlining" tells volumes. The fact that he says they aren't hiring anybody else (i.e. it was not dissatisfaction with Xanders per se that led to the change, but the desire to change the organizational structure) is very telling.

"Streamlining" means putting Elway in charge. Is there any dispute about that?

Elway is now the ONLY person in the Broncos organization (football operations) that everybody reports to. No intermediaries. The cap-guy and the head of player personnel and Coach Fox all report directly to him. He's directly responsible for coordinating everything and making all the ultimate decisions.

So, what room was there for Xanders? None. They promoted two other people to take over his two roles as head of Player Personnel development and player contracts/cap-management.

Xanders was a glorified accountant anyway. Now he's not there.

Do you really think there's all kinds of mystery in all this? Elway wanted to be directly in charge. Now he is. How much more obvious could it possibly be? :rolleyes:

[NightTerror218]

If Xanders was a great talent evaluator or great with negotiating contracts he would still be around. he was around long enough for Elway to pick his brain and learn everything he knew. Elway likes having smart people around who he can learn from. Xanders IMO was decent at best at these and he showed Elway everything he knew. He was not great at either talent evaluation or contracts so Elway promoted/hired people that are and essentially made Xanders useless except in title. Xanders showed Elway the ropes and now that Elway hand a grasp on the GM position he feels like he can handle it on top of his normal duties with his staff. He also was keeping all the final say which Xanders wanted.

So it was mutual because Xanders wants to be the acting GM in title and making the calls.

[Cugel]

The answer to all this is what Vic Lombardi has posted:


7 May Joel Stevens Joel Stevens ‏ @Joel_right_now

@Joel_right_now: did any of it have to do with his poor return on trades during the draft?

7 May Vic Lombardi Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

@VicLombardi Nah, too many cooks in the kitchen. Elway made all the decisions anyway. They owe Xanders a year's salary.

5:55 PM - 7 May 12 via TweetCaster for iOS · Details
7 May Vic Lombardi Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

Broncos made several front office changes the last two months. Replaced their cap guy with a former agent. Promote Matt Russell. Now this

5:43 PM - 7 May 12 via TweetCaster for iOS · Details
7 May Vic Lombardi Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

Broncos will not replace the position. Elway is essentially the GM anyway.

5:40 PM - 7 May 12 via TweetCaster for iOS · Details
7 May Vic Lombardi Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

I'm told the Broncos have considered this move for some time. Wanted to wait until after the draft. Tough biz.

[Cugel]

If Xanders was a great talent evaluator or great with negotiating contracts he would still be around. he was around long enough for Elway to pick his brain and learn everything he knew. Elway likes having smart people around who he can learn from. Xanders IMO was decent at best at these and he showed Elway everything he knew. He was not great at either talent evaluation or contracts so Elway promoted/hired people that are and essentially made Xanders useless except in title. Xanders showed Elway the ropes and now that Elway hand a grasp on the GM position he feels like he can handle it on top of his normal duties with his staff. He also was keeping all the final say which Xanders wanted.

So it was mutual because Xanders wants to be the acting GM in title and making the calls.

I could basically have shortened most of my posts into this one! Pretty much says it all.

I'm not sure where all the supposed "complications" come into what is essentially nothing more than Elway taking over final authority.

He wasn't ready to do that when he started. Now he is. He's got more experience and feels more comfortable with the job requirements and he doesn't need Xanders.

[The Glue Factory]

I just occurred to me that Elway has probably always wanted to own and run an NFL team the way Jerry Jones does. Now he's in total charge of Football Operations, and unless he loses Bowlen's confidence, he really is running this team for the foreseeable future.

If things go well for him here, I wouldn't even be surprised to see Elway emerge in control as majority owner of the team at some point in the future when Bowlen decides to retire or passes away.

The dream of NFL Ownership is well beyond the possibility of most NFL players, but Elway has over $150 million from his car dealerships and a close personal relationship with Bowlen now. He would certainly win league approval if Bowlen ever decided he wanted to sell his interest to an Elway led group of investors.

That is pure speculation of course, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see it happen one day.

One big problem with your scenario: Edgar Kaiser.

This man has right of first refusal which was in the contract Bowlen signed to purchase the Broncos from Kaiser. Kaiser took Bowlen to court when Elway was offered 10% ownership in the team after he retired.

I have said since day one that this is Bowlen trying to find a way to transfer ownership of the Broncos to one Mr. Elway. He just has to work with his family not wanting ownership and Mr. Kaiser having right of first refusal.

[MOtorboat]

One big problem with your scenario: Edgar Kaiser.

This man has right of first refusal which was in the contract Bowlen signed to purchase the Broncos from Kaiser. Kaiser took Bowlen to court when Elway was offered 10% ownership in the team after he retired.

I have said since day one that this is Bowlen trying to find a way to transfer ownership of the Broncos to one Mr. Elway. He just has to work with his family not wanting ownership and Mr. Kaiser having right of first refusal.

Kaiser is dead.

Does his family still retain that right, and are they as obtuse as Kaiser?

[The Glue Factory]

*quick websearch* So you are right - 1/12/12.

I don't know if the family holds his rights but I would expect his estate plan to have addressed that considering just 10 years ago he was in court to try and reacquire ownership interest in the franchise.

[Cugel]

I didn't expect Xanders to be fired when McDaniels was fired. I assumed the Broncos would make a good business decision rather than cater to populous fans on a witch hunt. McDaniels was putting in complete control when the Goodmans were fired and trying to blame Xanders or anyone else not named McDaniels for the personnel moves is simply not dealing in reality.

Personally, I HATE McMoron with the hatred of a million burning white hot suns that will never fade, but I don't believe in the innocence of Brian Xanders either.

McMoron's public comments were largely ignored in the media rush to exonerate Xanders as an innocent lamb led to the slaughter.

But, it was all just a LITTLE too convenient that Xanders never made any bad personnel decisions, they were all the fault of the big bad man.

Surely McMoron was PRIMARILY to blame and the day he was told to get out of Dove Valley immediately was one of the best days in Broncos football history!

But, Xanders was complicit in all the worst decisions the franchise has ever made. And he needed to go.

NOBODY not named Brian Xanders thinks Xanders is some sort of great talent evaluator. He came in here and tried to talk about all the evaluating experience he had in Atlanta before he left, only to have the staff left behind in Atlanta rudely rebut his claims that he had some major role in their draft day decisions.

He's nothing but a glorified accountant, no matter what delusions of grandeur he might have. :coffee:

[Cugel]

Maybe Elway fired Xanders because he understands that a GM that really isn't a GM is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.......

Pretty much sums it up. What exactly is the "Executive Vice President of Football Operations" supposed to do if he isn't the acting GM?

Is he supposed to just sit there and defer to Xanders?

Does anybody who knows anything about Elway's career, his competitive nature and his depth of experience think for one second he'd be content being a comfortable figure-head who let other men make the key decisions?

AS soon as Elway felt comfortable running the team he found Xanders expendable.