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Ziggy
05-13-2009, 02:20 PM
Hello fellow Bronco fans. I see a lot of new faces (well, names at least) around here. Good to have fresh meat....er.....opinions on the forums. My how our Broncos have changed.

Shanahan is gone, McDaniels is in. Cutler is gone, Orton is in. Also gone are all of the 'me first' players that littered the field on Sundays during Bronco games. At my last count, the Broncos had signed 18 veteran free agents. What do these players have in common?

1. None are superstars in thier prime.
2. All of them seem to have a burning desire to win, and win now.
3. Most, if not all of them are intelligent players that play with both mind and heart.

At least 27 rookies will also be in uniform for the next minicamp. While giving up a substantial amount for the 10 that we drafted, the front office showed no fear in dealing picks to position themselves for the players that they wanted. Whether or not that works out remains to be seen, but I applaud the effort. I'd rather take an aggressive approach and get the BPA, than draft for need and waste picks like the Broncos have done for most of the past decade. It's nice to have the luxury of both drafting for need, and the BPA at the same time, but the draft rarely works out that way. Considering the fact that the FO went out and signed versatile veteran RB's, and were prepared to take a RBBC approach to the season was fine with me. After the Moreno pick at 12, it confirmed the fact in my mind that they are going to take the BPA in this, and upcoming drafts. The investments made with the draft picks were used on players that are smart, tough, talented, and seem to have admirable character.

The FO then went out and signed a bevy of undrafted free agents. 17, the last time I looked. Among these were players that filled needs, and some have had either character or injury issues throughout thier college careers. UFA's rarely make an impact on a team, so why not take some chances there? If they turn out to be the player, worker, and citizen that the Broncos think they can be, they're keepers. If not, they will be cut with little consequence against the salary cap, and no draft picks lost in the process.

Being a huge Shanahan supporter in the past, I was sad to see the coach go. Being a huge Bronco fan for decades, I'm excited about the changes that are taking place. I had mixed emotions about the Cutler trade at first, but if a player won't show enough respect and maturity to return calls from the owner, I say, "See ya! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya." I wish Cutler luck with the Bears, and whatever other team he may play for in the future, but my focus is always on my team more than the individual players.

Although this team is heavily laden with young players and prospects, there is a mix of veteran leadership in there also. Dawkins and Davis may be argueably past thier prime, but they can show these kids how to practice, prepare, and work through adversity. The investment in players like these two go far beyond what they bring to the field on game days. Winning in the NFL is a culture. One that must be taught, formed, and committed to. The Broncos are attempting to do that very thing. Let's hope that the investments made by Pat Bowlen and company are wise ones.

dogfish
05-13-2009, 02:31 PM
hey ziggy, good to have ya back. . . . :welcome:

Superchop 7
05-13-2009, 03:07 PM
Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.

LRtagger
05-13-2009, 03:11 PM
No the true blessing is having you as a member of this board SuperChop.

I love your optimism. You seem like a great fan.

Lonestar
05-13-2009, 03:17 PM
Hello fellow Bronco fans. I see a lot of new faces (well, names at least) around here. Good to have fresh meat....er.....opinions on the forums. My how our Broncos have changed.

Shanahan is gone, McDaniels is in. Cutler is gone, Orton is in. Also gone are all of the 'me first' players that littered the field on Sundays during Bronco games. At my last count, the Broncos had signed 18 veteran free agents. What do these players have in common?

1. None are superstars in thier prime.
2. All of them seem to have a burning desire to win, and win now.
3. Most, if not all of them are intelligent players that play with both mind and heart.

At least 27 rookies will also be in uniform for the next minicamp. While giving up a substantial amount for the 10 that we drafted, the front office showed no fear in dealing picks to position themselves for the players that they wanted. Whether or not that works out remains to be seen, but I applaud the effort. I'd rather take an aggressive approach and get the BPA, than draft for need and waste picks like the Broncos have done for most of the past decade. It's nice to have the luxury of both drafting for need, and the BPA at the same time, but the draft rarely works out that way. Considering the fact that the FO went out and signed versatile veteran RB's, and were prepared to take a RBBC approach to the season was fine with me. After the Moreno pick at 12, it confirmed the fact in my mind that they are going to take the BPA in this, and upcoming drafts. The investments made with the draft picks were used on players that are smart, tough, talented, and seem to have admirable character.

The FO then went out and signed a bevy of undrafted free agents. 17, the last time I looked. Among these were players that filled needs, and some have had either character or injury issues throughout thier college careers. UFA's rarely make an impact on a team, so why not take some chances there? If they turn out to be the player, worker, and citizen that the Broncos think they can be, they're keepers. If not, they will be cut with little consequence against the salary cap, and no draft picks lost in the process.

Being a huge Shanahan supporter in the past, I was sad to see the coach go. Being a huge Bronco fan for decades, I'm excited about the changes that are taking place. I had mixed emotions about the Cutler trade at first, but if a player won't show enough respect and maturity to return calls from the owner, I say, "See ya! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya." I wish Cutler luck with the Bears, and whatever other team he may play for in the future, but my focus is always on my team more than the individual players.

Although this team is heavily laden with young players and prospects, there is a mix of veteran leadership in there also. Dawkins and Davis may be argueably past thier prime, but they can show these kids how to practice, prepare, and work through adversity. The investment in players like these two go far beyond what they bring to the field on game days. Winning in the NFL is a culture. One that must be taught, formed, and committed to. The Broncos are attempting to do that very thing. Let's hope that the investments made by Pat Bowlen and company are wise ones.


Out standing post glad your back..

I have almost the same feelings about this change this year.. Except that I hope jay fall flat on his face this coming year and gives us an 8-15 round choice for next year..

I think this team will do OK this coming year learning the new schemes and getting to know each other and hopefully they will learn alot of Team manship from Dawkins and Davis..

The best TEAMS win and frankly we have had only one team since the HOF player left and that was in 2005.. It is to bad we ran into Bettis and friends on the way to the SB.

They played as a TEAM and beat us because the were better prepared than we were.. Plus they had emotion on their side giving Jerome his final home game..

Lonestar
05-13-2009, 03:20 PM
Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.

I realize you do not like Josh, Pat, Xman and almost everyone now on the team.. But every post I can remember seeing you make has been uber negative.. Almost spam, time to lighten up and figure out that the team is better off for all the changes that have been made..

jay and mike are gone time to move on..

Dreadnought
05-13-2009, 03:47 PM
Ziggy - great to see you back! Your posts are always smart and insightful, even when I think you're wrong! The football section near melted down without your steadying influence

silkamilkamonico
05-13-2009, 03:50 PM
Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.

Nothing like getting some mid round rookies, who rarely ever make an impact along the dline in their first couple years, to come in and play "savior" to a defense. But then again you might be right. It happens with my roommates madden game all the time.

silkamilkamonico
05-13-2009, 03:52 PM
I realize you do not like Josh, Pat, Xman and almost everyone now on the team.. But every post I can remember seeing you make has been uber negative.. Almost spam, time to lighten up and figure out that the team is better off for all the changes that have been made..

jay and mike are gone time to move on..

I'm sure he just misses Cutler and Shanahan, along with his constant underachieving seasons and recent .500 records.

But who cares about winning when you have a Qb that can actually throw the deep ball. That's what matters!

dogfish
05-13-2009, 04:16 PM
Nothing like getting some mid round rookies, who rarely ever make an impact along the dline in their first couple years, to come in and play "savior" to a defense. But then again you might be right. It happens with my roommates madden game all the time.

so what's the answer for teams that don't currently have good D-lines?

1. do you say, "rookie DLs rarely make an impact, so we won't waste time drafting any-- we'll just continue to make do with a subpar D-line?"
2. do you bite the bullet, go ahead and draft them knowing that it's an investment for the future and they generally take time to develop?
3. bring in over-the-hill vets through trades and FA and hope for the best?
4. do you bring in a bunch of late round scrubs hoping against the odds that you'll catch lightning in a bottle?
5. go after high-priced free agents?
6. or just say, "screw it-- good D-lines are too hard to build, we'll just play with a shitty one, build the secondary and hope for the best". . . . ?


we tried all of those besides #5 with shanahan, and we're now going with #'s 4 + 6 with doogie. . . . we'll see how it works out, but i'm not holding my breath. . . . i personally would like to see us go back to #2 and do it the right way at some point-- and the longer we put it off, the longer it most likely is before we ever have any decent D-linemen. . . .

omac
05-13-2009, 04:43 PM
Hello fellow Bronco fans. I see a lot of new faces (well, names at least) around here. Good to have fresh meat....er.....opinions on the forums. My how our Broncos have changed.

Shanahan is gone, McDaniels is in. Cutler is gone, Orton is in. Also gone are all of the 'me first' players that littered the field on Sundays during Bronco games. At my last count, the Broncos had signed 18 veteran free agents. What do these players have in common?

1. None are superstars in thier prime.
2. All of them seem to have a burning desire to win, and win now.
3. Most, if not all of them are intelligent players that play with both mind and heart.

At least 27 rookies will also be in uniform for the next minicamp. While giving up a substantial amount for the 10 that we drafted, the front office showed no fear in dealing picks to position themselves for the players that they wanted. Whether or not that works out remains to be seen, but I applaud the effort. I'd rather take an aggressive approach and get the BPA, than draft for need and waste picks like the Broncos have done for most of the past decade. It's nice to have the luxury of both drafting for need, and the BPA at the same time, but the draft rarely works out that way. Considering the fact that the FO went out and signed versatile veteran RB's, and were prepared to take a RBBC approach to the season was fine with me. After the Moreno pick at 12, it confirmed the fact in my mind that they are going to take the BPA in this, and upcoming drafts. The investments made with the draft picks were used on players that are smart, tough, talented, and seem to have admirable character.

The FO then went out and signed a bevy of undrafted free agents. 17, the last time I looked. Among these were players that filled needs, and some have had either character or injury issues throughout thier college careers. UFA's rarely make an impact on a team, so why not take some chances there? If they turn out to be the player, worker, and citizen that the Broncos think they can be, they're keepers. If not, they will be cut with little consequence against the salary cap, and no draft picks lost in the process.

Being a huge Shanahan supporter in the past, I was sad to see the coach go. Being a huge Bronco fan for decades, I'm excited about the changes that are taking place. I had mixed emotions about the Cutler trade at first, but if a player won't show enough respect and maturity to return calls from the owner, I say, "See ya! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya." I wish Cutler luck with the Bears, and whatever other team he may play for in the future, but my focus is always on my team more than the individual players.

Although this team is heavily laden with young players and prospects, there is a mix of veteran leadership in there also. Dawkins and Davis may be argueably past thier prime, but they can show these kids how to practice, prepare, and work through adversity. The investment in players like these two go far beyond what they bring to the field on game days. Winning in the NFL is a culture. One that must be taught, formed, and committed to. The Broncos are attempting to do that very thing. Let's hope that the investments made by Pat Bowlen and company are wise ones.

Your optimism is nice, and we did get some good players, but Superchop7's point about the DL is very valid. We passed on quite a few DL players who projected well into the NFL and even into the 3-4 in favor of RB, CB, S, and TE.

And our draft wasn't exactly BPA either; we did burn a 1st rounder next year in order to take a CB in the 2nd round, and we made a deal with 2 of our 3rds and one of Pittsburgh's 4ths to move up to the 2nd round to pick up a TE. For those non-BPA moves, a lot of us would rather they took those risks with DL instead, specially when giving up a 1st rounder, considering DL was the weakest area of our team the last 2 seasons. So we were willing to burn picks to move up to get a CB and TE, yet we don't take a proportionate amount of risks in building up our DL. We leave it to chance with UDFAs and backup/average players from FA.

I remember posts here before the draft where a Giants fan was saying we were gonna pick up a TE, and he quite some negative reactions for it. Now all of a sudden, it's a great move?

If before the draft, someone here would say that we should take a CB over a DL player, do you think you all would say it was a great move? How about if someone suggested we burn next year's 1st rounder to pick up a CB in the 2nd round, would you all be saying "great move!"?

Let's be honest here. We were all thinking DL, some since last season's draft or earlier. Now, after 2 years of weak DL play, we're happy to take a CB and a blocking TE over DL players?

Your point about the veterans teaching the young players is a very good one; I thought that was the mistake with the extreme go-youth movement of the Chiefs with Herm. Those vets should make the younger players better.

About our defense last year, I don't doubt that they really wanted to win, and they played the best they could with all their effort. They just either weren't very good (or maybe they were average), or they weren't coached very well. Their attitude wasn't a problem ... their celebrating was annoying to some, but they did that to boost their intensity; they just consistently got beaten, and even the good ones got affected because of weak DL play.

If there is not enough talent on the DL to make a difference, all the effort won't amount to much. Here's hoping the Broncos get lucky with the non-risks they took with FAs and UDFAs.

omac
05-13-2009, 04:58 PM
so what's the answer for teams that don't currently have good D-lines?

1. do you say, "rookie DLs rarely make an impact, so we won't waste time drafting any-- we'll just continue to make do with a subpar D-line?"
2. do you bite the bullet, go ahead and draft them knowing that it's an investment for the future and they generally take time to develop?
3. bring in over-the-hill vets through trades and FA and hope for the best?
4. do you bring in a bunch of late round scrubs hoping against the odds that you'll catch lightning in a bottle?
5. go after high-priced free agents?
6. or just say, "screw it-- good D-lines are too hard to build, we'll just play with a shitty one, build the secondary and hope for the best". . . . ?


we tried all of those besides #5 with shanahan, and we're now going with #'s 4 + 6 with doogie. . . . we'll see how it works out, but i'm not holding my breath. . . . i personally would like to see us go back to #2 and do it the right way at some point-- and the longer we put it off, the longer it most likely is before we ever have any decent D-linemen. . . .

Great points! :salute:

The criticisms with the Shanahan regime was that they didn't invest enough on quality DL players, specially front 4, always taking the "now" route by acquiring FAs instead, and not investing heavily in the draft for high potential DL players. Because of that, we were always thin at those positions.

The year we did invest on mostly front 4 players (2007), they more or less flopped. That isn't a reason to give up on the approach, though.

The Steelers keep picking up DL players in their drafts, some drafts more than most depending on their need. It's not a coincidence that their defense has been consistently good, even when they lose players to FA.

Lonestar
05-13-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm sure he just misses Cutler and Shanahan, along with his constant underachieving seasons and recent .500 records.

But who cares about winning when you have a Qb that can actually throw the deep ball. That's what matters!

and the deep ball is thrown how much in the NE scheme?

The rest of your post is dead on..

horsepig
05-13-2009, 09:07 PM
Your optimism is nice, and we did get some good players, but Superchop7's point about the DL is very valid. We passed on quite a few DL players who projected well into the NFL and even into the 3-4 in favor of RB, CB, S, and TE.

And our draft wasn't exactly BPA either; we did burn a 1st rounder next year in order to take a CB in the 2nd round, and we made a deal with 2 of our 3rds and one of Pittsburgh's 4ths to move up to the 2nd round to pick up a TE. For those non-BPA moves, a lot of us would rather they took those risks with DL instead, specially when giving up a 1st rounder, considering DL was the weakest area of our team the last 2 seasons. So we were willing to burn picks to move up to get a CB and TE, yet we don't take a proportionate amount of risks in building up our DL. We leave it to chance with UDFAs and backup/average players from FA.

I remember posts here before the draft where a Giants fan was saying we were gonna pick up a TE, and he quite some negative reactions for it. Now all of a sudden, it's a great move?

If before the draft, someone here would say that we should take a CB over a DL player, do you think you all would say it was a great move? How about if someone suggested we burn next year's 1st rounder to pick up a CB in the 2nd round, would you all be saying "great move!"?

Let's be honest here. We were all thinking DL, some since last season's draft or earlier. Now, after 2 years of weak DL play, we're happy to take a CB and a blocking TE over DL players?

Your point about the veterans teaching the young players is a very good one; I thought that was the mistake with the extreme go-youth movement of the Chiefs with Herm. Those vets should make the younger players better.

About our defense last year, I don't doubt that they really wanted to win, and they played the best they could with all their effort. They just either weren't very good (or maybe they were average), or they weren't coached very well. Their attitude wasn't a problem ... their celebrating was annoying to some, but they did that to boost their intensity; they just consistently got beaten, and even the good ones got affected because of weak DL play.

If there is not enough talent on the DL to make a difference, all the effort won't amount to much. Here's hoping the Broncos get lucky with the non-risks they took with FAs and UDFAs.

We had a couple pretty good performances from our stable of DL last year, Atlanta and the Jets were games the DL did very well. Kinda begs the question doesn't it?

JKcatch724
05-13-2009, 09:15 PM
Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.

Thank you for your completely useless and futile attempt at sarcasm

omac
05-13-2009, 10:30 PM
We had a couple pretty good performances from our stable of DL last year, Atlanta and the Jets were games the DL did very well. Kinda begs the question doesn't it?

So if the DL does good in a couple or so games the last 2 seasons, it makes them good?

Come on, man, I doubt anyone here would honestly believe that our DL was not the main reason that opponents could gut us with the run with ease, and why our CBs (even a probowler like Champ) can be made to look bad, because the DL couldn't get significant pressure on the QB.

Dirk
05-14-2009, 06:14 AM
Nice post Ziggy!

I agree with most of what you posted.

I too am one that was hoping we could snag some good DL talent in this draft but there really wasn't that many to be had. The only 2 left when it came to the Broncos pick at 12 worth the pick IMO was Orakpo and Ayers.

Orakpo isn't a sure thing either. He may or may not be the player people think he will be. And Ayers...well we have already discussed that in depth.

So as far as spending round 1 picks on the DL, the only 2 players I would have moved up for were Raji and Jackson. And they were both gone fairly early.

I am optimistic for the upcoming year and think that we will be better than a lot of people are giving the team credit for. I think we will all be surprised after the first few games. We may not be a playoff team, but if we make it to .500 after all the changes, it was a successful season. Which will mean 2010 will be stellar!

Ziggy
05-14-2009, 08:16 AM
I'm not ready to condem our FO for not drafting D-lineman this season. They are looking for the BPA in the draft. To them, obviously the BPA includes work ethic, proffessionalism, and character. If the D-line hasn't improved over a 2-3 year period, then I'll start complaining. The draft is a crap-shoot. Always has been. Everyone thinks they have all the answers on which players to take before and during the draft. Some pan out and some don't.

As far as spending one of next season's first for a player that is rated on our board as a 1st rounder this season, I have no problem with it. Yes, next year's pick that we gave away could turn out to be a great player. It could also turn out to be a David Klingler or Kijana Carter type of bust. Alphonso Smith may be a bust. If he is, we have spent a lot less cap money on a first round bust than we may have next season. If not, the pick was well spent.

Like I said, I applaud the FO for being aggressive and getting the players they wanted in the draft. Let's not forget the fact that the Steelers, Patriots, and every other team have had many wasted draft picks over the years. The FO felt that the DLineman on the board when they were drafting either weren't worth the cost of trading up for, or that they didn't fit the mold that they want.

I truly think that the FO knows that they need a better defensive line, but the opportunities that were there this offseason just weren't worth the cost. McDaniels is using the Belichik blueprint for success. Belichik's starting 3 d-lineman are first round picks. They were also the BPA on the board when the Pats picked them. What does reaching for D-lineman in a draft get you? Mostly, players that fail. In the meantime, the Broncos will continue to take the BPA IMHO.

Ziggy
05-14-2009, 08:22 AM
Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.


Ah yes, one of new forum members. Welcome, superchop. Good to have ya.

Ziggy
05-14-2009, 08:24 AM
hey ziggy, good to have ya back. . . . :welcome:

Thanks Dog! Great to be back.

Ziggy
05-14-2009, 08:27 AM
Ziggy - great to see you back! Your posts are always smart and insightful, even when I think you're wrong! The football section near melted down without your steadying influence

Thanks Dread... and I like to think that I'm humble enough now to know that I am wrong.....probably as much as I'm right, or more. One of the things that I've always loved about this place is that there are so many members that will banter in a classy, respectful way. Thanks for being one of them.

Ziggy
05-14-2009, 08:39 AM
Your optimism is nice, and we did get some good players, but Superchop7's point about the DL is very valid. We passed on quite a few DL players who projected well into the NFL and even into the 3-4 in favor of RB, CB, S, and TE.

If before the draft, someone here would say that we should take a CB over a DL player, do you think you all would say it was a great move? How about if someone suggested we burn next year's 1st rounder to pick up a CB in the 2nd round, would you all be saying "great move!"?

Let's be honest here. We were all thinking DL, some since last season's draft or earlier. Now, after 2 years of weak DL play, we're happy to take a CB and a blocking TE over DL players?



Mac, I wanted to see us get some D-lineman with the draft also. I'm holding out hope that this draft just wasn't holding much of what we were needing in that department. We bypassed a ton of D-lineman in the 2006 draft also when we desperately needed them, but they just weren't there. Instead, we went BPA and got what may believe are/was a franchise caliber qb, an all-pro caliber WR, a play-making TE who can stretch the field (when he's on it), a pass rusher that accumulated 26 sacks in 3 seasons, a WR that is starting for the Giants now, and a quality starting guard.

If we had a draft like that every year, or even every 2-3 years, we'd be in the same position as the Steelers and the Pats. I believe that that's the philosiphy here now, and I like it.

frenchfan
05-14-2009, 08:50 AM
Ziggy

:welcome: back

I liked your post... That's your opinion and you elaborate it clearly.

I'm not a draft expert (I have troubles to understand all the stuff :laugh: ) and I'm really not an expert about college football (I only watch NFL)... So I let the "experts" doing their job...

What I like though (about draft and since McD was hired) is that work ethic is back at Dove Valley. I also like McD take people who like the game, want to play heart and guts and are smart.

Sure, I still can't understand the McJayGate, but I think both are guilty and that when you don't call back your boss, the problem has to be solved. Period.

I'm looking ahead... Now, we have Orton (or Simms), a new philosophy...
Sure, like many, I expected more work about our front 7... Anyway, Ayers is here... We also take some undrafted D-Linemen. WHo knows?

I like the fact we took Moreno... IMO, it's better to take a player who has a high probability to perform well than to try to fill a (obvious) need with a player who doesn't have a good probability...

Trading for what we (and meny others) thought was the best CB of the draft and a 1st rounder if it wasn't about his size was IMO a plan to build our future... We need someone you can be paired with Champ and also who can help to renegociate Champ's contract (you know, salary cap :coffee: ).
I admit it's a big gamble, but after all, isn't draft a big lottery?
If you really believe in someone, then go for him ! (IMHO)

McD has a plan and I'll let him try to execute it... He may be wrong, but at least he has a plan... Some people don't even have a plan !
I have a feeling we'll improve as a team and we'll be very surprised in 2 years... This year could be a surprise for us too...
OK we've lost a heck of a QB... I liked Jay's skills... But with good schemes, great OL, a smart QB, some good WRs and a great running game, I think our O will still be good... We'll have to control the clock to help our D... That could be a good plan IMO.

Just my 2 cents anyway... After all... I'm French and I'm drinking my McKool Aid ;) :laugh:

Lonestar
05-14-2009, 09:23 AM
DAFT or Draft that is the real question.

After the superbowl years we could take BPA for the future. Then we coasted to long and thenit became desparte grabbing because we had to hit q home run. We started the FA stopgap routine & found that just depleted the CAP. With the exception of a strong OLINE, WR group frontliners ONLY this team sucked talent and almost no depth.

So BPA works because we needed EVERYTHING.

IF these players stick and fix the looming issuse at CB, S, WR, TE Then those spots are something like Oline we can bypass next year. And focus on BPA in more spefic areas. Like NT, DE, OLB.

omac
05-14-2009, 09:46 AM
Mac, I wanted to see us get some D-lineman with the draft also. I'm holding out hope that this draft just wasn't holding much of what we were needing in that department. We bypassed a ton of D-lineman in the 2006 draft also when we desperately needed them, but they just weren't there. Instead, we went BPA and got what may believe are/was a franchise caliber qb, an all-pro caliber WR, a play-making TE who can stretch the field (when he's on it), a pass rusher that accumulated 26 sacks in 3 seasons, a WR that is starting for the Giants now, and a quality starting guard.

If we had a draft like that every year, or even every 2-3 years, we'd be in the same position as the Steelers and the Pats. I believe that that's the philosiphy here now, and I like it.

I disagree with you that there weren't quality DL players available; I can even debate you some that were considered draft steals for the places they were eventually drafted on.

Still, it's a matter of differing opinion, and you've stated your case quite eloquently. :salute:

omac
05-14-2009, 10:10 AM
DAFT or Draft that is the real question.

After the superbowl years we could take BPA for the future. Then we coasted to long and thenit became desparte grabbing because we had to hit q home run. We started the FA stopgap routine & found that just depleted the CAP. With the exception of a strong OLINE, WR group frontliners ONLY this team sucked talent and almost no depth.

So BPA works because we needed EVERYTHING.

IF these players stick and fix the looming issuse at CB, S, WR, TE Then those spots are something like Oline we can bypass next year. And focus on BPA in more spefic areas. Like NT, DE, OLB.

I get what you're saying, but NT, DE, and OLB were available, based on the positions we drafted by. Ron Brace for NT was available, but we took Alphonso Smith instead; Belichick then snagged him. Gilbert was projected to be able to play as a 4-3 DT or a 3-4 DE, so that versatility should prove useful, since Nolan himself said we don't have enough players to go 3-4 fully; Gilbert was considered a 2nd round player; we instead picked up TE Quinn, and the Bears got him as a steal in the 3rd. We picked up Moreno instead of Orapko, who's not only a 4-3 DE, but projects as a 3-4 OLB too, another versatile player that could help in the transitional phase of our defense. Dom Capers seems to think Clay Matthews would fit well in the new 3-4 he's installing with the Packers. Some think Maualuga will turn out to be a Ray Lewis type player.

Ofcourse, any of these players can bust, just like any of the players we got can bust, but these are highly sought of prospects too, who were considered very good picks for where they were taken.

So yes, we could've gone BPA in DL specific areas without reaching, at least based on how the scouts project those players to impact the NFL. There was quality to be had in the DL based on our draft positions. The FO just decided to put more focus on the offense and the back-end of the defense instead.

pnbronco
05-14-2009, 10:32 AM
Ziggy welcome back, :welcome:, it's good to read your posts again.

I don't understand drafts, or really understand the mechanics of football I just really enjoy watching the game. I have been blessed to go to camp for many, many years and had been able to talk to players for many many years.

I heard Karl Mecklenburg talk on Sat at his awards banquet and he said something I didn't realize before. I knew he was picked in the 12th round but there were only 10 other players picked after him, so 10th from last. His work ethics got him in the NFL and kept him there for many, many years. I can't remember how many different positions he played but it was a lot. Also Rod Smith was never drafted and started as a Red Shirt. I want to see the Broncos function as a team. So I will just wait and see and I am really looking forward to camp this year.

Again Ziggy it's good to have you back. BTW nice post French....

Ziggy
05-14-2009, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the welcome back PN. Meck actually played all 7 positions of the front 7 in many games. He was listed at 6'3, 240 pounds.

Ziggy
05-14-2009, 12:04 PM
Thanks for the WB French. Great post, and well said. I might be drinking the kool-aid also, but then again, I'm an optimist and loyal fan of THE TEAM.

Lonestar
05-14-2009, 12:15 PM
I get what you're saying, but NT, DE, and OLB were available, based on the positions we drafted by. Ron Brace for NT was available, but we took Alphonso Smith instead; Belichick then snagged him. Gilbert was projected to be able to play as a 4-3 DT or a 3-4 DE, so that versatility should prove useful, since Nolan himself said we don't have enough players to go 3-4 fully; Gilbert was considered a 2nd round player; we instead picked up TE Quinn, and the Bears got him as a steal in the 3rd. We picked up Moreno instead of Orapko, who's not only a 4-3 DE, but projects as a 3-4 OLB too, another versatile player that could help in the transitional phase of our defense. Dom Capers seems to think Clay Matthews would fit well in the new 3-4 he's installing with the Packers. Some think Maualuga will turn out to be a Ray Lewis type player.

Ofcourse, any of these players can bust, just like any of the players we got can bust, but these are highly sought of prospects too, who were considered very good picks for where they were taken.

So yes, we could've gone BPA in DL specific areas without reaching, at least based on how the scouts project those players to impact the NFL. There was quality to be had in the DL based on our draft positions. The FO just decided to put more focus on the offense and the back-end of the defense instead.

Yes those players were available but for what ever reason they did grade out for our type scheme.

Why I have no idea so will go with the collective wisdom of the D coaches as to why we went the way we did.

They very well be great players down the road for the other team/schemes but if OUR coaches passed on them I have to go with them.