(Ex-QB) sues EA Sports over images

[OrangeHoof]

ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4151071)

OMAHA, Neb. -- Former Nebraska quarterback Sam Keller is suing EA Sports and the NCAA, saying the video-game maker wrongly uses the names and likenesses of athletes and the NCAA sanctions the practice.

Keller's lawsuit was filed Tuesday in federal court in San Francisco as a class-action, suing on behalf of all college athletes depicted in the NCAA Football and NCAA Basketball video games made by EA Sports.

Rob Carey of Phoenix, Keller's attorney, contends EA Sports profits from using the names and likenesses of players. The lawsuit would bar EA Sports from using the names and likenesses and seeks undetermined compensation for athletes who have been portrayed in the video games.

.....

Though names are not visible on player jerseys in the video games, the lawsuit contends EA Sports "intentionally circumvents the prohibitions on utilizing student-athletes' names by allowing gamers to upload entire rosters, which include players' names and other information, directly into the game in a matter of seconds."

A message seeking comment from EA Sports in Redwood City, Calif., was not immediately returned.

The lawsuit said EA contracts with the NCAA's licensing company, Collegiate Licensing Co. of Atlanta, allowing the video-game maker to replicate team logos, uniforms, mascots and stadiums with "almost photographic realism."

[AlWilsonizKING]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance Alert......cry baby.




PEACE!!!

[MOtorboat]

"I couldn't make it as a professional athlete, and I'm not really qualified for any other job, so, um, I thought trying to sue the NCAA would be my meal ticket."

[Ravage!!!]

I think its a case where an athlete has seen the colleges make millions off his name... and now games that are again using college athletes to make millions without paying compensation.

Its not crying. Its not being a baby. Professional athletes complain, sue, and gripe if they don't get money for their jersey, likeness, or name being used to make someone else profit, why shouldn't an amateur athlete have the same rights?

[drewloc]

I think its a case where an athlete has seen the colleges make millions off his name... and now games that are again using college athletes to make millions without paying compensation.

Its not crying. Its not being a baby. Professional athletes complain, sue, and gripe if they don't get money for their jersey, likeness, or name being used to make someone else profit, why shouldn't an amateur athlete have the same rights?

I agree that they should have rights in regards to their likeness, but the NCAA prohibits players from receiving any royalties if I'm not mistaken. The question then becomes, if EA has to pay these players for their likeness, then this is never going to be allowed. Not to mention that the roster uploads aren't rosters sanctioned by EA, they are user created rosters.

[OrangeHoof]

But wouldn't it be easy enough for EA to eliminate the updated rosters option? Seems to me they have two choices - eliminate this option or put settlement money into a pool for players to draw from upon graduation.

Or the NCAA can relax their rules about players receiving monies other than room, board and tuition.

I don't know if I support this suit or not but it deserves a hearing. EA is paying the NCAA money for the rights to use all these logos in their game. If the NCAA is getting paid by EA, why shouldn't the players?

[Ravage!!!]

But wouldn't it be easy enough for EA to eliminate the updated rosters option? Seems to me they have two choices - eliminate this option or put settlement money into a pool for players to draw from upon graduation.

Or the NCAA can relax their rules about players receiving monies other than room, board and tuition.

I don't know if I support this suit or not but it deserves a hearing. EA is paying the NCAA money for the rights to use all these logos in their game. If the NCAA is getting paid by EA, why shouldn't the players?

Exactly.

The NCAA is making HUGE amounts of money off these athletes, and then say 'But they are getting a free education" (not all of them aren't). But for the amount of money an top quality player brings is SOOOOO far and beyond any scholarship money.

The player will probably win this suit. EA Sports will probably have to stop the 'actual rosters' to be downloaded, and will probably have to stop having actual player 'likeness' in the game. COnsidering its college, I don't think actualy player likeness is important anyway.

Funny that some think its the player whining, when I've seen NFL players complain about a team putting their PRO jersey up in the airport when they weren't getting paid for it. Of course, that player is a total doooosh, but still.

[Thnikkaman]

I would love to see EA take a hit on this. EA is a programming sweat shop. Nothing like
making its employees work manditory 90 hour weeks to make an unrealistic deadline.

[Shazam!]

EA sucks.

[Northman]

"I couldn't make it as a professional athlete, and I'm not really qualified for any other job, so, um, I thought trying to sue the NCAA would be my meal ticket."

Nailed it.


You know most people who actually suck at the sport would be honored anyone would download them at all. :lol:

[Shazam!]

I would love to see EA take a hit on this. EA is a programming sweat shop. Nothing like making its employees work manditory 90 hour weeks to make an unrealistic deadline.

I've never heard that but reading your given knowledge of the past I won't dispute it.

When EA buys up a small publisher or a studio, that's the end.

They got too fat over the years.

Madden screwed me over too many times to ever warrant another purchse.

They had the WWII FPSs in their palms and was the premier publisher for that subgenre, but again, they messed that up. Activision's Call of Duty are FAR SUPERIOR to Medal of Honor. Even MoH Airborne was nothing compared to CoD2 (PC and 360 versions) and it was two years older.

EA could screw up Corn Flakes.

[LordTrychon]

I have no idea what the NCAA does with money it gets. Kinda curious now.

Does some of it go to the colleges? Some to scholarships? Do they help athletic programs out at all?

From a legal standpoint... I have no idea what the agreements are between players and the NCAA. Pretty sure the NCAA has rights to images and likenesses of their games though. Just a guess.

Any agreement between athletes and the NCAA would be voluntary... so I'm not sure what sort of ground this will find.

[Thnikkaman]

I've never heard that but reading your given knowledge of the past I won't dispute it.

When EA buys up a small publisher or a studio, that's the end.

They got too fat over the years.

Madden screwed me over too many times to ever warrant another purchse.

They had the WWII FPSs in their palms and was the premier publisher for that subgenre, but again, they messed that up. Activision's Call of Duty are FAR SUPERIOR to Medal of Honor. Even MoH Airborne was nothing compared to CoD2 (PC and 360 versions) and it was two years older.

EA could screw up Corn Flakes.

I got into computer science with the intent of possibly doing video game
programming. When I learned of the conditions that EA works their "talent"
and the failed marrages of programmers that worked for them, I kind of put it
to the side. I still took the CG classes I wanted since its something I wanted
to do. One of my dream jobs is to work for Blizzard. The day EA goes Bank-
rupt will be a glorious day.

[G_Money]

I got into computer science with the intent of possibly doing video game
programming. When I learned of the conditions that EA works their "talent"
and the failed marrages of programmers that worked for them, I kind of put it
to the side. I still took the CG classes I wanted since its something I wanted
to do. One of my dream jobs is to work for Blizzard. The day EA goes Bank-
rupt will be a glorious day.

I have a friend who works as a sound designer for EA. He did the sound on Dead Space - won awards for it too (go Dave!).

Yeah, they punish you with 90-110 hour work weeks to meet deadlines. Not every week, but some weeks.

He also makes ridiculous money, is single, and can take off months at a time after projects to go backpack around Europe and Russia. He gets to pick his assignments, might buy a sailboat, sail to Australia and start working at the EA down there.

*shrugs* If you don't have a relationship, working at EA is no different than working as an ER doc or a Nurse on ridiculous shifts and hours. I've worked 80 hour weeks before, with one or two jobs. And I didn't make half the money he does for that privilege.

Doing video games is not a 9-5 job. There are many jobs that aren't. EA has many, MANY flaws, but AFAIK the industry is like that, not just EA. The guys who don't put in that time normally work on vaporware and have their companies swallowed by, well, EA. All the guys I knew who worked for Sony had that excess work-time problem, too.

Unless you're a concept artist and you're not involved in the actual software part, it's rough. As a sound designer, Dave had weeks where they didn't need him much at all and weeks where he slept at the specially provided hotel 2 minutes from the EA campus because there was no time to go home and catch a couple hours of sleep before going back for another day.

But he loves his job.

And if you're doing what you're doing, the fact that it's time-consuming isn't as big a deal.

Just don't have a family that needs to see much of you. And there are plenty of jobs with that requirement that don't pay as well.

*shrugs*

~G

[Thnikkaman]

I have a friend who works as a sound designer for EA. He did the sound on Dead Space - won awards for it too (go Dave!).

Yeah, they punish you with 90-110 hour work weeks to meet deadlines. Not every week, but some weeks.

He also makes ridiculous money, is single, and can take off months at a time after projects to go backpack around Europe and Russia. He gets to pick his assignments, might buy a sailboat, sail to Australia and start working at the EA down there.

*shrugs* If you don't have a relationship, working at EA is no different than working as an ER doc or a Nurse on ridiculous shifts and hours. I've worked 80 hour weeks before, with one or two jobs. And I didn't make half the money he does for that privilege.

Doing video games is not a 9-5 job. There are many jobs that aren't. EA has many, MANY flaws, but AFAIK the industry is like that, not just EA. The guys who don't put in that time normally work on vaporware and have their companies swallowed by, well, EA. All the guys I knew who worked for Sony had that excess work-time problem, too.

Unless you're a concept artist and you're not involved in the actual software part, it's rough. As a sound designer, Dave had weeks where they didn't need him much at all and weeks where he slept at the specially provided hotel 2 minutes from the EA campus because there was no time to go home and catch a couple hours of sleep before going back for another day.

But he loves his job.

And if you're doing what you're doing, the fact that it's time-consuming isn't as big a deal.

Just don't have a family that needs to see much of you. And there are plenty of jobs with that requirement that don't pay as well.

*shrugs*

~G

You make a good point. EA is not a bad place to work if you are a workaholic.
I've got 3 kids, and even though working on Madden (there is a shop that does
the DS ports of that and Guitar hero about 30 miles south
from me) would be pretty cool, I have 3 kids. I'm pretty happy with what I do
right now, and love the philosophy of where I work. If the task is going to take
more than 1 person 40 hours a week to compete it by a deadline,
they put more people on the project. (What a concept, I know). Its
graphics related, its also embeded software which is damn cool in its own
right. I also can take flex time off if I end up working more than my 40 hours
a week. I just have too many other obligations to go backpacking in Europe.
(Maybe next lifetime)

I think that EA can still produce great pieces of software if they would
put the correct amount of resources on the project. I understand that
it takes 9 months to make a baby, even if you give the mother 2 people to
help take care of the mother, but software isn't a baby. If the game is
Engineered correctly, then your developer's shouldn't need to work 90 hour
weeks ever. And I'm pretty damn sure that Blizzard isn't having their
developers work that much in a week ever.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't think its uncommon to have salaried employees work more than 40 hours a week ANYWHERE. I own my own business, and work 70-80 hour weeks EVERY week. Thats just what you do.

I think expecting to only work 40 hour weeks is ... well... a lifestyle that is doing the minimum you can and still gt by. Thats not an insult to anyone, but I honestly think thats how it is.

[Thnikkaman]

I don't think its uncommon to have salaried employees work more than 40 hours a week ANYWHERE. I own my own business, and work 70-80 hour weeks EVERY week. Thats just what you do.

I think expecting to only work 40 hour weeks is ... well... a lifestyle that is doing the minimum you can and still gt by. Thats not an insult to anyone, but I honestly think thats how it is.

The thing with 70-80 hour weeks is that it is anti-productive and unhealthy.
Kelloggs showed that they could get better production by splitting their
shifts from 3 40 hour a week shifts to 4 30 hour a week shifts. Within a year,
they were making enough profit from the extra production they were getting
from fresh employees to pay their employees the same amount of money for
a 30 hour week as they were making in a 40 hour week.

Japan, the home of the 70-80 hour work week actually has a word for "death by overwork". Is that what you want?

[Thnikkaman]

I don't think its uncommon to have salaried employees work more than 40 hours a week ANYWHERE. I own my own business, and work 70-80 hour weeks EVERY week. Thats just what you do.

I think expecting to only work 40 hour weeks is ... well... a lifestyle that is doing the minimum you can and still gt by. Thats not an insult to anyone, but I honestly think thats how it is.

One more thing to add. I completely skipped over the fact that you own your own business. I sincerely hope that you don't have to work 70-80 hours a week indefinitely. I commend you for taking part of such a risky endeavor.

[Ravage!!!]

The thing with 70-80 hour weeks is that it is anti-productive and unhealthy.
Kelloggs showed that they could get better production by splitting their
shifts from 3 40 hour a week shifts to 4 30 hour a week shifts. Within a year,
they were making enough profit from the extra production they were getting
from fresh employees to pay their employees the same amount of money for
a 30 hour week as they were making in a 40 hour week.

Japan, the home of the 70-80 hour work week actually has a word for "death by overwork". Is that what you want?

But again, you are saying that these guys/girls are expected to work the 70-80 hour shifts for the entire year. They arent. There is nothing wrong with expecting well paid employees to work extra hours to get a job done. In fact, I would be VERY irritated with any employees that complain about putting in extra hours when a BIG project is to be finished, ESPECIALLY (in the EA example) we know that they get MONTHS between projects.

I'm sorry. But I just don't think working a 70-80 hour week for a few weeks (month or tw0.. three) something to complain about. Hard work is how you get ahead. Hard work and long hours is how you get things done.

Simply hiring additional staff only maginifies the communication problem that slows things down more often than speeds things up...especially when the minds that are doing the communicating are on the "creative" part of the project.

But... thats just my perspective. Your perspective is that you would rather work where you are, 40 hours a week, and go home. NOTHING wrong with that. Most people in the country don't want to work more than 40 hours and feel thats working a LONG day.

[Thnikkaman]

But again, you are saying that these guys/girls are expected to work the 70-80 hour shifts for the entire year. They arent. There is nothing wrong with expecting well paid employees to work extra hours to get a job done. In fact, I would be VERY irritated with any employees that complain about putting in extra hours when a BIG project is to be finished, ESPECIALLY (in the EA example) we know that they get MONTHS between projects.

I'm sorry. But I just don't think working a 70-80 hour week for a few weeks (month or tw0.. three) something to complain about. Hard work is how you get ahead. Hard work and long hours is how you get things done.

Simply hiring additional staff only maginifies the communication problem that slows things down more often than speeds things up...especially when the minds that are doing the communicating are on the "creative" part of the project.

But... thats just my perspective. Your perspective is that you would rather work where you are, 40 hours a week, and go home. NOTHING wrong with that. Most people in the country don't want to work more than 40 hours and feel thats working a LONG day.

I'm not saying that EA case is their occasional case. From what I understand
from both people who I know have worked for EA, and blogs online is that the
standard is you work 60 hours a week when your contract says you are
getting paid for 40 hours a week. And that gets ramped up towards the end
of the project.

I understand that if you get behind on a project and need to work extra for
a couple of weeks to get back on schedule or to meet a milestone/deadline.
But when you are constantly working 60-80 hour weeks, that is not cool. I
know for instance that coming up here in the next month or so, I will need to
put in between 50-60 hours a week. And if that happens, my boss
understands that he won't see me the week after we make our deadline. I
don't get paid overtime because I am salary, and our company keeps track
that the time that we put into our projects are between 85%-100% of our
40 hours per week for 52 weeks a year. (I get 5 weeks off a year plus what
ever sick leave I need). I love my job, and what I do. I understand when I
need to work extra to make sure our contractors (the U.S. military) get what
they paid for when they want it. And I will do my damnedest to make sure
that I'm not the person that is keeping us from reaching our deadlines. In
return, our company (Rockwell Collins) makes sure that we are sufficiently
staffed to meet those deadlines instead of paying less people to work more
hours than they should.

I don't like companies that take advantage of its employees willingness to
put in extra hours without compensation over and over again. I also don't
like Unions that take advantage of the Companies they staff (but that is a
whole 'nother rant).

The case for people that don't like working 40 hours a week are probably not
in jobs that they are happy with. It sucks but they should either suck it up ip
or do something about it.

[G_Money]

http://www.igda.org/qol/whitepaper.php

The 90-page "Quality of Life in the Game Industry: Challenges and Best Practices" white paper was prepared by the IGDA's Quality of Life Committee, representing a wide range of game development professions and companies.

The white paper discusses the problems and consequences developers face when trying to maintain a career in the industry and the solutions for establishing a better work/life balance.

The white paper is partly based on the results of the "Quality of Life Survey" commissioned by the IGDA in early 2004, which garnered nearly one thousand responses from developers. The survey examined developers' attitude toward work, their internal pressures (salary, long hours, job instability), external pressures (family and relationships), inadequate staffing and work organization problems. Some of the alarming findings from the survey include:

34.3% of developers expect to leave the industry within 5 years, and 51.2% within 10 years.

Only 3.4% said that their coworkers averaged 10 or more years of experience.
Crunch time is omnipresent, during which respondents work 65 to 80 hours a week (35.2%). The average crunch work week exceeds 80 hours (13%). Overtime is often uncompensated (46.8%). 44% of developers claim they could use more people or special skills on their projects.

Spouses are likely to respond that "You work too much..." (61.5%); "You are always stressed out." (43.5%); "You don't make enough money." (35.6%).
Contrary to expectations, more people said that games were only one of many career options for them (34%) than said games were their only choice (32%).



http://playthisthing.com/mothers-dont-let-your-children-grow-be-game-developers

Mike Capps, head of Epic, and a former member of the board of directors of the International Game Developers Association, during the IGDA Leadership Forum in late 08, spoke at a panel entitled Studio Heads on the Hot Seat, in which, among other things, he claimed that working 60+ hours was expected at Epic, that they purposefully hired people they anticipated would work those kinds of hours, that this had nothing to do with exploitation of talent by management but was instead a part of "corporate culture," and implied that the idea that people would work a mere 40 hours was kind of absurd.
Now, of course, the idea that a studio head, which Capps is, would have such notions is highly plausible; but he was, at the time, a board member of the IGDA, an organization the ostensible purpose of which is to support game developers. Not, you know, to support management ##!@heads.

Morever, the IGDA has for some years had a Quality of Life Committee, which strives to demonstrate that long hours are an unproductive use of employees, and that superior alternative to the exploitative conditions at many development studios exist. The simple fact (as demonstrated in its research, available at the link above) is that most game developers burn out within 5 years of entering the industry, because of the absurd hours (for, incidentally, lower pay than programmers, artists, producers, and Q/A people can command in other software and media ventures). (And for the youth reading this post, this is why you are an IDIOT to attend Digipen or Full Sail -- get a generalized CS or art degree, so you can get a job somewhere else when you get burned out on the industry. Do NOT get a degree that ties you to the medium for all time to come.)


There are companies now that realize that you lose productivity after a few 60+ work weeks in a row, and are trying to re-model their businesses.

But it's an industry standard, not one company deciding to screw their employees while all other companies have 40 hour hard-caps.

Just FYI - EA is in the majority still, not the minority. ;) But I definitely wish you the best of luck getting on with a good company in the minority, Thnikka. My friends in it find it highly rewarding, even if time-consuming.

Hopefully you can get the reward and keep your time, too.

~G

[G_Money]

And as for compensation, like I said, Dave gets paid a significant sum of money (high-5 figures at least), especially for having been a guy who came in straight from college, to diddle with sound for a video game, and takes 6-8 week vacations overseas every year.

EA may run you into the ground while you're working, but you get time off to recover too.

It's definitely not the job field or the employer for everyone - but it's neither singular in its approach to staffing and workload, nor remarkably outside the bounds in compensation.

He certainly doesn't feel like he's being taken advantage of. If he had a family, he would probably feel differently, but most game designers leave the field or change to a less-frontlines crunch-time-necessary job within the field once they start having kids.

~G

[Ravage!!!]

And as for compensation, like I said, Dave gets paid a significant sum of money (high-5 figures at least), especially for having been a guy who came in straight from college, to diddle with sound for a video game, and takes 6-8 week vacations overseas every year.

EA may run you into the ground while you're working, but you get time off to recover too.

It's definitely not the job field or the employer for everyone - but it's neither singular in its approach to staffing and workload, nor remarkably outside the bounds in compensation.

He certainly doesn't feel like he's being taken advantage of. If he had a family, he would probably feel differently, but most game designers leave the field or change to a less-frontlines crunch-time-necessary job within the field once they start having kids.

~G

"Successful people are willing to do what unsuccessful people are not." One of my favorite sayings.

But if he had a family, I'm sure the family would absolutely love him being around for months between projects despite him being busy for months providing the income. Although I'm sure that time away from the family, and the family missing them... is bothersome as well. Just as it is for everyone that has to spend time away from the home.

Like your article said.. "...the idea that people would work a mere 40 hours was kind of absurd."

Personally.. I think a 40 hour work week is just bare minimum. Doing what you must 9-5, to get by. Nothing wrong with that, if thats what you want.

[Thnikkaman]

And as for compensation, like I said, Dave gets paid a significant sum of money (high-5 figures at least), especially for having been a guy who came in straight from college, to diddle with sound for a video game, and takes 6-8 week vacations overseas every year.

EA may run you into the ground while you're working, but you get time off to recover too.

It's definitely not the job field or the employer for everyone - but it's neither singular in its approach to staffing and workload, nor remarkably outside the bounds in compensation.

He certainly doesn't feel like he's being taken advantage of. If he had a family, he would probably feel differently, but most game designers leave the field or change to a less-frontlines crunch-time-necessary job within the field once they start having kids.

~G

I'm not saying that if I was in a different situation, I wouldn't jump at
the chance to work for EA. In my free time, if I'm not working on my
golf game, or giving my kids daddy time, I'm working on my own side projects.

My current dream jobs are to work for one of the following companies:

Pixar
Dreamworks
Google
Blizzard
Myself

I realize that some of these jobs would require some long hours,
but when you are doing what you love, its hardly work.

[Ravage!!!]

I realize that some of these jobs would require some long hours,
but when you are doing what you love, its hardly work.

another one of my favorite sayings...

"If you are doing something you love, you never work a day in your life."

[LordTrychon]

Well that was all interesting. lol. Any news on the legal stances?

FWIW... I've worked 70 hour weeks as a manager when my company was busy... and worked hard... and was glad to be done with it when it was over... I've also worked months of 100 hour work weeks because of a messed up situation. I don't really count that though because it was laidback for large portions of it.

I don't know. I think if I had the knowledge and opportunity to work a cool VG project, and I were single... I'd probably jump at it. The nice thing would be that 40 hour weeks would feel practically like a vacation anyway... so the time and money to really go somewhere would be really amazing.