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View Full Version : Things That I Learned About the Broncos FO from the 2012 Draft



Ziggy
04-28-2012, 08:24 PM
1. EFX could care less what the draft pundits think, or how they have players rated- Most every player was slated to go lower than where the Broncos took them. They identified thier guys, and went and got them.

2. There are no Broncos insiders left that don't work in Dove Valley. Lammey spent the week talking about how much the Broncos loved Billy Winn, Jerel Worthy, and Lamar Miller. Mike Klis came talked about how the Broncos loved Chris Polk, and offensive lineman in the 2nd, as well as possibly taking a WR high. He also mentioned that there was some talk of moving Franklin inside.

3. The Broncos are going to put resources into repairing our nickel and dime packages. Wolfe is a penetrating, pocket collapsing DT. Jackson is a pass rushing DT that can wreak some havok inside, and play DE on running downs. Both have good length and long arms. Omar Bolden provides a strong physical presence at CB and brings depth to the position. No run stuffing fat bodies were brought in. We passed on all of the shorter squattier DT's.

4. The FO is comfortable with our current receiving core. No WR's or TE's were taken in this draft. Tamme, Dreesen, Decker, and Thomas look to be our go to guys on passing downs.

5. They are willing to give last year's draft class some time to develop. Mays will go into camp as starter at MLB, with Irving backing him up. It looks like Carter will have a chance to lock down the SS spot early with Moore competing with the newly signed vet at FS. Franklin is staying at RT.

6. Character, talent, and motor are of the highest priorities in the draft. Once again, no players were taken that have character questions, and none that were accused of taking plays off. Consistency is important to this FO. I'll have to look, but I'm betting that we have picked up at least 3 more team captains from thier college teams.

claymore
04-28-2012, 08:34 PM
Great post dude. I cant wait till training camp.

SmilinAssasSin27
04-28-2012, 08:43 PM
I think the fact that some of last year's rooks didnt have much camp, and didn't contribute too much made some folks here ancy. I never liked the Rahim Moore pick, but he showed some signs in pre-season before flopping. Irving WILL get his shot. He's not a bust yet. COaches still love him. He just needed to get healthy and needs a full offseason. Carter should and will start.

I really like what we're doing. Admittedly, I get down when we don't get the household names, but ya can't discount what these kids bring. Even Osweiler...

...I'm NOT a fan of the pick. I didn't want ANY QB as I believe that Manning is the guy. If he gets hurt, we're SCREWED regardless and will have a shot at Landry, WIlson, Bray or Barkley in 2013. That said, I am intrigued by Osweiler's potential. His skills are apparently there and he is the perfect QB to take IF WE HAD TO TAKE ONE. He has all the upside in the world and hopefully will have plenty of time to harness that.

Ziggy
04-28-2012, 11:15 PM
One other thing that I learned- Elway has learned the art of misdirection.


We don’t feel as bad about our tackles as everybody else does," Elway said. "I think that we feel okay there and Ty Warren will be back coming off an injury and (Kevin) Vickerson is coming back and then we have some young guys in there where we feel like we’ll be okay.

Then he drafts uses his first pick and a 5th on DT's. Nice job Mr. Elway. (Although I think that Jackson will be a DE on running downs and DT on passing downs.)

Chef Zambini
04-29-2012, 12:13 AM
Like your enthusiasm but I remain concerned about our ability to stop the run, as well as our own running offense.
I felt we needed an ILB and a safety, and after 6 rounds we FAILED to adress those issues !
Manning represents a window of opportunity, somewhgere between 3-5 years.

pissing away TWO chances to pick in the FIRST round and...
using a second round pick for a guy you hope to never see in a game for 4 years

is NOT my idea of drafting to maximize that window !
sorry fellow bronco fans, hillman and wolfe need to exceed all expectations for me to have a change of heart.
I agree, the EFX team became fixated on certain players and they went and got them.
lets hope they do everything they can to justify these choices, not with explanations, but performance and results on gameday!

MOtorboat
04-29-2012, 12:43 AM
I gotta be honest. When I see Zam question something, it makes me feel better about it.

Jsteve01
04-29-2012, 12:45 AM
I reserve judgment on this class for at least a year. As much as I wanted O line depth I am pissed that we passed on Ta'amu to take Blake. would have rather had washington/Blake in the 5th and taken Ta'amu overall Im content though. love the first 4 picks...not so much on the late picks other than Blake. Again I think I could have swapped Washington for Blake and been happy. Im not going to nitpick though Matt Russell and his staff get paid big dollars to know their stuff. Im excited to see how this plays.

Chef Zambini
04-29-2012, 12:46 AM
whatever floats your boat.

Chef Zambini
04-29-2012, 12:53 AM
I reserve judgment on this class for at least a year. As much as I wanted O line depth I am pissed that we passed on Ta'amu to take Blake. would have rather had washington/Blake in the 5th and taken Ta'amu overall Im content though. [B]love the first 4 picks...[/oB]not so much on the late picks other than Blake. Again I think I could have swapped Washington for Blake and been happy. Im not going to nitpick though Matt Russell and his staff get paid big dollars to know their stuff. Im excited to see how this plays.

love the first 4 picks...
I guess I have to remind you we surrendered our first 2 opportunities to pick in the first round ! !

Jsteve01
04-29-2012, 01:04 AM
lol there was no one that went between those picks that made me happy. I keep hearing hightower and he is a wonderful player but he projects as a 3-4 ilb. in a fox/delrio defense he would be a two down player. we already had that in mays. the hope is that irving steps up.

Chef Zambini
04-29-2012, 01:10 AM
lol there was no one that went between those picks that made me happy. I keep hearing hightower and he is a wonderful player but he projects as a 3-4 ilb. in a fox/delrio defense he would be a two down player. we already had that in mays. the hope is that irving steps up.
funny, the pats picked him for his VERSATILITY !

Jsteve01
04-29-2012, 01:16 AM
funny, the pats picked him for his VERSATILITY !

pats play a totally different system than us zam.. ever heard of the 3-4? it requires a different skill set than Fox's 4-3. And don't come back when he has a strong rookie season and tell me we missed on him. Again totally different defense. how the hell are you by the way?

Lancane
04-29-2012, 01:18 AM
What I've learned is that we have way too many whiny fans that believe they know better then the current front office, without even giving the draftees time to develop or show what they bring before tearing them down or labeling them as fodder. Despite the fact that the same said front office drafted the Rookie of the Year and three starters in the last draft.

Oh well, while it's not the greatest draft...I still felt it was solid.

OrangeHoof
04-29-2012, 04:16 AM
I think the beat writers all know they are being played at draft time and they may even take part in the deception in return for favorable relations with the club in the future. I think they all know some lying comes with the job description. "You play ball with us and we'll see you are taken care of." Ir's even worse with large college programs in small towns. The reporters are expected to say whatever is best for the university. The whole town demands it.

Simple Jaded
04-29-2012, 09:11 AM
I learned that l still have huge questions about Brian Xanders. Maybe l'm still biased by his former boss saying that he was nothing more than a cap geek in Atlanta. Idk, I think the Broncos made mistakes in trade value and where players will be available in the draft, seemingly two responsibilities for a teams "GM". Obviously l open myself up for the "you act like you know more than the Broncos do", it's just my opinion, l think the Broncos biggest need is still a legitimate GM.......

underrated29
04-29-2012, 09:38 AM
I don't see how people keep blaming xanders ..... either he gets the credit for manning or everything else or he gets none but also no blame....I find it funny people on cherry pick when all the good was elway and all the bad was xanders.....if elway is running the show which he is, then he is the one calling the shots with the input of fox and X.

Chef Zambini
04-29-2012, 09:46 AM
pats play a totally different system than us zam.. ever heard of the 3-4? it requires a different skill set than Fox's 4-3. And don't come back when he has a strong rookie season and tell me we missed on him. Again totally different defense. how the hell are you by the way?I am fine, nice of you to ask.
ley me ask this, do we need talent in the middle, a middle linebacker/
well of course the answer is YES, especially with the suspensions in the first half of the year.
4-3 , 3-4, our front seven morphs, just like every other front 7.
hightower can cover, blitz and play the run up the middle, our big area of weakness.
we had TWO chances to draFT IN THE FIRST ROUND AND WE PISSED THEM AWAY! I am not dissing the actual players we got, i hope they are all studs! i want every one of them to succeee and justify the front office fixations!
But, the drafting skills and philosophy of EFX has to be questioned, when after 4 chances to select a player to help our team with a 3-5 year window of SB opportunity we balk the first 2 times, take a needed DTand a back-up QB with so many other needs to address.
and at the ned of the draft we still have no answer for our huge hole at safety and still have big questionmarks about our ability to stop the run.

Chef Zambini
04-29-2012, 09:52 AM
elway must have learned one thing from shanny,
the art of the SCAPEGOAT.
xanders will be elways scapegoat.

oh, and shanny with ultimate power again in DC proves once again that he is just a glorified QB coach with a pass junkie mentality and skill set.
cousins, typical shanny.

vandammage13
04-29-2012, 10:01 AM
I must say...I wasn't overly impressed with our draft..I don't think we maximized our opportunity to improve the team...just my opinion.

Jsteve01
04-29-2012, 10:19 AM
Zam as usual we will have to agree to disagree. We did address safety with a solid player in Adams. We also have a young Guy named Quinton Carter who looked to be on the rise last year. I also think our f.o. realizes that our young MLB and free safety need to be healthy and have a real offseason to b able to evaluate them effectively. We took de rb qb center/guard de/tackle and lber. That hit a ton of needs. Sorry we missed your mancrush in hightower. I think he's a better joe Mays and still a 2 down player in a 4-3

Simple Jaded
04-29-2012, 10:29 AM
I don't see how people keep blaming xanders ..... either he gets the credit for manning or everything else or he gets none but also no blame....I find it funny people on cherry pick when all the good was elway and all the bad was xanders.....if elway is running the show which he is, then he is the one calling the shots with the input of fox and X.

I haven't seen Xanders name connected to the signing of Manning, that's new. I guess l'm making the mistake of blaming Xanders for mistakes that are usually made by GM's and not giving Elway blame for things that the GM usually do. Like moving down twice and getting raped in value. Agree to disagree, but l'm fairly sure that l'm giving credit/blame where it's due.......

bcbronc
04-29-2012, 11:18 AM
Hard to say we got raped in value when 4th rounders were the move-up currency of the day. Deep draft gives later picks more value.

Npba900
04-29-2012, 11:37 AM
1. EFX could care less what the draft pundits think, or how they have players rated- Most every player was slated to go lower than where the Broncos took them. They identified thier guys, and went and got them.

2. There are no Broncos insiders left that don't work in Dove Valley. Lammey spent the week talking about how much the Broncos loved Billy Winn, Jerel Worthy, and Lamar Miller. Mike Klis came talked about how the Broncos loved Chris Polk, and offensive lineman in the 2nd, as well as possibly taking a WR high. He also mentioned that there was some talk of moving Franklin inside.

3. The Broncos are going to put resources into repairing our nickel and dime packages. Wolfe is a penetrating, pocket collapsing DT. Jackson is a pass rushing DT that can wreak some havok inside, and play DE on running downs. Both have good length and long arms. Omar Bolden provides a strong physical presence at CB and brings depth to the position. No run stuffing fat bodies were brought in. We passed on all of the shorter squattier DT's.

4. The FO is comfortable with our current receiving core. No WR's or TE's were taken in this draft. Tamme, Dreesen, Decker, and Thomas look to be our go to guys on passing downs.

5. They are willing to give last year's draft class some time to develop. Mays will go into camp as starter at MLB, with Irving backing him up. It looks like Carter will have a chance to lock down the SS spot early with Moore competing with the newly signed vet at FS. Franklin is staying at RT.

6. Character, talent, and motor are of the highest priorities in the draft. Once again, no players were taken that have character questions, and none that were accused of taking plays off. Consistency is important to this FO. I'll have to look, but I'm betting that we have picked up at least 3 more team captains from thier college teams.

Sounds like EFX has adopted a lot of the draft philosophies and beliefs of the Pittsburgh Steeler's. Which has proven over the last 20 years to be quite successful.

chazoe60
04-29-2012, 11:46 AM
I don't understand why so many people are disappointed with this draft. We got a DT who will start for us and push the pocket for our pass rush badasses. We got a speedy playmaking RB who scores TDs. We got a guy to develop as PM's replacement someday so we don't get stuck in no man's land when another legend retires. We got OL and DL depth. We got a CB in the 4th round, who if healthy was a late 1st or 2nd round pick. We got a tackling machine LB to add depth and play STs. We got better as a football team the last three days, and that's a good thing.

Simple Jaded
04-29-2012, 11:48 AM
Hard to say we got raped in value when 4th rounders were the move-up currency of the day. Deep draft gives later picks more value.

Funny you mention it, the 25th pick was roughly a 4th round pick more than what they got from NE. I know it's a fluid situation but the Broncos settled for less value nonetheless.......

Northman
04-29-2012, 11:49 AM
I don't understand why so many people are disappointed with this draft. We got a DT who will start for us and push the pocket for our pass rush badasses. We got a speedy playmaking RB who scores TDs. We got a guy to develop as PM's replacement someday so we don't get stuck in no man's land when another legend retires. We got OL and DL depth. We got a CB in the 4th round, who if healthy was a late 1st or 2nd round pick. We got a tackling machine LB to add depth and play STs. We got better as a football team the last three days, and that's a good thing.

Probably has more to do with Denver just not picking players they liked. To some degree understandable as if we would have drafted Foles i would probably be a little whiny too. But, i would still give him a chance to prove himself before calling it a fail draft wise.

Simple Jaded
04-29-2012, 11:53 AM
I don't understand why so many people are disappointed with this draft. We got a DT who will start for us and push the pocket for our pass rush badasses. We got a speedy playmaking RB who scores TDs. We got a guy to develop as PM's replacement someday so we don't get stuck in no man's land when another legend retires. We got OL and DL depth. We got a CB in the 4th round, who if healthy was a late 1st or 2nd round pick. We got a tackling machine LB to add depth and play STs. We got better as a football team the last three days, and that's a good thing.

Look, l know it comes across as disappointed with the entire situation but it's not. I like the players they got. Bolden was great value and could be a steal.......

Nomad
04-29-2012, 12:07 PM
I don't understand why so many people are disappointed with this draft. We got a DT who will start for us and push the pocket for our pass rush badasses. We got a speedy playmaking RB who scores TDs. We got a guy to develop as PM's replacement someday so we don't get stuck in no man's land when another legend retires. We got OL and DL depth. We got a CB in the 4th round, who if healthy was a late 1st or 2nd round pick. We got a tackling machine LB to add depth and play STs. We got better as a football team the last three days, and that's a good thing.

I guess I'm not around enough to see people disappointed with the overall draft. Sure, everyone has had a player they aren't excited about, but I haven't seen anyone say it was a failure. It happens every year.....there's not one person here over the years I haven't seen express their disappointment in a draft pick and some take it to the extreme and post it in every thread even some of the ones calling out others. Between Fox/Del Rio, I have high hopes they can get this defense to be great, something I've been wanting for years. I'm not crazy or optimistic about the QB pick but he'll have his chance.

One thing I know is.....I'm gettin my DTV/Sunday Ticket back after a few years of not having it, and I'll be watching the BRONCOS every game on the big screen.

jhildebrand
04-29-2012, 12:53 PM
I don't see how people keep blaming xanders ..... either he gets the credit for manning or everything else or he gets none but also no blame....I find it funny people on cherry pick when all the good was elway and all the bad was xanders.....if elway is running the show which he is, then he is the one calling the shots with the input of fox and X.

Why would Xanders get ANY credit for Manning? :confused:

It is well known how Manning ended up here and who is responsible for that.

The confusion surrounding Xanders comes from the 2 McD drafts and some comments made about those drafts and the later comments distancing himself from them when McD was getting 86'd. Does he get credit for last year? Of course. But last year's draft was Miller and Franklin to a lesser degree and then undrafted Chris Harris. Not exactly a great draft.

If this year's draft shows nothing or doesn't pan out in any way, I sincerely believe Xanders, right or wrong, will be the fall guy!

BroncoBowlby 88
04-29-2012, 01:26 PM
I really like what the front office is doing through the draft since they've been together. Last year we found quality starters in a year that was tough on rookies. Irving isn't a bust yet, so picking up Hightower, (who would not have the skill sets to play every down, and would have been a liability in coverage), would have stunted the growth of Irving making him a bust. Wolfe is a stud, works hard, never takes plays off, he most likely will be used as a DE on run plays and DT on passing downs. Our pass rush is going to be insane. Oswiler will get the time he needs to learn from the best (in both manning and Elway) to give those raw skill sets a chance to make him a starter for us in about 3 years. Hillman is getting compared to marshal Faulk, he is a good change of pace back who needs to bulk up a little but will impact the offense day 1, if bolden recovers well from his knee we found ourselves a real player, the o linemen from Baylor will give beadles a run for the starting position. Good draft, excited for this season

NightTerror218
04-29-2012, 01:44 PM
Zam, when Mays was signed to his big contract I knew we would not draft an ILB. They are hoping on Irving. As for safety we signed a new vet already to start.

Ziggy
04-29-2012, 04:28 PM
Last year's draft class all got a pass from me last season. Yes, even Moore. It's hard enough to come in and make an impact as a rook. It's even harder when you have no OTA's and a shortened training camp.

Von is a stud regardless.
Quinton Carter played well even though he was forced to play out of position. He was drafted to be the SS of the future.
Rahim Moore showed flashes early, then lost his confidence. Hopefully, he will find it.
Franklin was playing one of the hardest positions in the NFL. I think he can become an average pass blocker, and great run blocker. I'll take that.
I have no idea what happened to Irving. I'm hoping for more out of him in the next 2 years.
Green flashed as a great blocker at times.
Even that later picks deserve more time. We'll see what happens this year, but I think this team has more young talent on it than folks realize.

OrangeHoof
04-29-2012, 05:10 PM
it's just my opinion, l think the Broncos biggest need is still a legitimate GM.......

Or even one with upside.

bcbronc
04-29-2012, 06:37 PM
The confusion surrounding Xanders comes from the 2 McD drafts and some comments made about those drafts and the later comments distancing himself from them when McD was getting 86'd. Does he get credit for last year? Of course. But last year's draft was Miller and Franklin to a lesser degree and then undrafted Chris Harris. Not exactly a great draft.

QCarter did have 10 tkls, 2 picks, 2 bat downs in 2 postseason games. Can't complain about that production from a rookie.

Lancane
04-29-2012, 09:18 PM
Or even one with upside.

Problem is that most General Managers will want to rule the roost, that isn't going to happen in Denver. If the team decided to part ways with Xanders, expect Russell or Kidd to get the nod for the promotion.

topscribe
04-29-2012, 10:37 PM
This post over on MHR, titled "Bill Walsh's NFL draft philosophy and how it might change your mind of this years draft," is a very worthy read.

Here's a teaser:



I understand that no draft will please every fan, yet every fan seems to be an armchair GM leading up to, during and immediately after every draft. Players and teams are judged and graded before a single down is played, and as Brian Billick stated during the NFL Networks coverage, it is completely unfair.


So here is an article written by Michael Lombardi in reference to Bill Walsh and his strategy as it relates to the draft. Doc Bear did a great piece on it over on IAOFM a while back, and I feel with some of the qualms people have regarding this year and maybe the last few years, it would be good to take another look.

The meat (most important part) of the article can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/7uv9hx8

.

TimHippo
04-29-2012, 11:48 PM
Nationally the media and experts are destroying the Broncos draft.

"Denver Broncos: Help us, Peyton Manning, you’re our only hope. This doesn’t feel like a draft that will put Denver over the top. DT Derek Wolfe fills a need, but Jerel Worthy or Devon Still would have been safer picks, and the Brock Osweiler selection at 57 makes absolutely no sense. Grade: D"
http://nfl.si.com/2012/04/29/2012-nfl-draft-grades/?sct=hp_t13_a0&eref=sihp

"Losers:
Denver Broncos -- John Elway and John Fox won their division in 2011 and even won a playoff game. So naturally, they traded their starting quarterback and shoved all in on Peyton Manning. That's a worthy gamble but the draft should reflect that too and feature picks that help the team immediately. So unless Denver's planning on using Brock Osweiler as a red-zone target, it's kind of hard to imagine how they did that by grabbing him in the second round. They got some depth on defense and I like Ronnie Hillman as a guy to fit into what Manning does on offense, but Denver needed to be more aggressive about making their team better immediately and they didn't do that."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/18881992/2012-nfl-draft-winners-and-losers-colts-stay-on-offensive-with-smart-draft

Lancane
04-29-2012, 11:50 PM
Nationally the media and experts are destroying the Broncos draft.

"Denver Broncos: Help us, Peyton Manning, you’re our only hope. This doesn’t feel like a draft that will put Denver over the top. DT Derek Wolfe fills a need, but Jerel Worthy or Devon Still would have been safer picks, and the Brock Osweiler selection at 57 makes absolutely no sense. Grade: D"
http://nfl.si.com/2012/04/29/2012-nfl-draft-grades/?sct=hp_t13_a0&eref=sihp

"Losers:
Denver Broncos -- John Elway and John Fox won their division in 2011 and even won a playoff game. So naturally, they traded their starting quarterback and shoved all in on Peyton Manning. That's a worthy gamble but the draft should reflect that too and feature picks that help the team immediately. So unless Denver's planning on using Brock Osweiler as a red-zone target, it's kind of hard to imagine how they did that by grabbing him in the second round. They got some depth on defense and I like Ronnie Hillman as a guy to fit into what Manning does on offense, but Denver needed to be more aggressive about making their team better immediately and they didn't do that."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/18881992/2012-nfl-draft-winners-and-losers-colts-stay-on-offensive-with-smart-draft

Who gives a damn about their opinion? I sure the hell don't!

DenBronx
04-29-2012, 11:51 PM
As long as everyone else is being honest......I too am not overly impressed with the draft.


However, the more I learn about this Wolfe guy the more excited I get. He seems like a nice guy off the field but he seems like a KILLER on the field. I've felt for years we needed a clogger in the middle but with a high paced offense and Dume/Miller on the edges then a guy like Wolfe could end up being very scary. He's taller, faster and more athletic then guys like Worthy. Maybe Worthy wouldnt have really fit the system anyway. EFX didnt want to risk any of the guys they wanted not being there when it came time to pick. They got balls.....maybe brass balls in fact.

And, Brock is the 5th ranked QB in the draft. All four of the others were already gone and Weeden is a play now guy due to his age. Brock is a project but the more I think about him the more I realize how perfect the situation is for us. He will take time to develop and get better. When the time is right for him he will be ready, alot like the Aaron Rogers situation where he got to sit behind Favre. Not a pick the we could use 1-4 years but in our situation I see why it makes sense.

My only beef really is not taking Doug Martin at 31, because I still think Wolfe would have been there in round two. We could have still taken Brock with the 2nd of the round 2s. Doug Martin is going to be a stud in the NFL.....probably the best back in the draft.

TimHippo
04-29-2012, 11:59 PM
My only beef really is not taking Doug Martin at 31, because I still think Wolfe would have been there in round two. We could have still taken Brock with the 2nd of the round 2s. Doug Martin is going to be a stud in the NFL.....probably the best back in the draft.

Actually, that's the one thing they did right. So yeah things could have been worse I guess.

Lancane
04-30-2012, 12:06 AM
As long as everyone else is being honest......I too am not overly impressed with the draft.


However, the more I learn about this Wolfe guy the more excited I get. He seems like a nice guy off the field but he seems like a KILLER on the field. I've felt for years we needed a clogger in the middle but with a high paced offense and Dume/Miller on the edges then a guy like Wolfe could end up being very scary. He's taller, faster and more athletic then guys like Worthy. Maybe Worthy wouldnt have really fit the system anyway. EFX didnt want to risk any of the guys they wanted not being there when it came time to pick. They got balls.....maybe brass balls in fact.

And, Brock is the 5th ranked QB in the draft. All four of the others were already gone and Weeden is a play now guy due to his age. Brock is a project but the more I think about him the more I realize how perfect the situation is for us. He will take time to develop and get better. When the time is right for him he will be ready, alot like the Aaron Rogers situation where he got to sit behind Favre. Not a pick the we could use 1-4 years but in our situation I see why it makes sense.

My only beef really is not taking Doug Martin at 31, because I still think Wolfe would have been there in round two. We could have still taken Brock with the 2nd of the round 2s. Doug Martin is going to be a stud in the NFL.....probably the best back in the draft.

DB, I understand your sentiment...but I've watched what I could find on both Martin and Hillman, and I think Hillman is the real deal. He reminds me of a faster T.D. more then Marshall Faulk, he doesn't see himself as a change of pace back, he thinks of himself as a feature back and he could well be after watching the vids of him I could find.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyNWPk7Oq90


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbSeGoaNilE&feature=relmfu

bcbronc
04-30-2012, 12:12 AM
My only beef really is not taking Doug Martin at 31, because I still think Wolfe would have been there in round two. We could have still taken Brock with the 2nd of the round 2s. Doug Martin is going to be a stud in the NFL.....probably the best back in the draft.

If we took Martin at 31 we wouldn't have had two 2nds. Next pick would have been 57 and imo it's 99% likely Wolfe would have been gone by then.

We got at worse our 4th rated DT and at worse our 6th rated RB. If you go Martin at 31 you get presumably the 2nd back on your board, but potentially the 8th rated DT. That's not giving DT the respect it needs imo.

Ravage!!!
04-30-2012, 12:16 AM
Wolf would NOT have been around for our second pick in teh 2nd, and then people would have bitched that we didn't get a DT at all and went after a RB. I'm personally thrilled that we didn't go after Martin and bypass Wolf. I don't think we dropped much in getting Hillman instead of Martin, and still got a DT that could be around for a long time.

TimHippo
04-30-2012, 12:18 AM
DB, I understand your sentiment...but I've watched what I could find on both Martin and Hillman, and I think Hillman is the real deal. He reminds me of a faster T.D. more then Marshall Faulk, he doesn't see himself as a change of pace back, he thinks of himself as a feature back and he could well be after watching the vids of him I could find.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyNWPk7Oq90


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbSeGoaNilE&feature=relmfu

Hillman's actually not a bad pickup. Could pan out although it's hard to tell much from alot of college highlights as highlights always look good. I mean Rashan Salaam and Tyrone Wheatley's highlights looked all world but didn't duplicate that kind of success at the next level.
Hillman's got above average speed at 4.45. (not slow like Doug Martin 4.57) and less wear and tear. Might be a good pick.

OrangeHoof
04-30-2012, 12:21 AM
After watching the video, Hillman seems to have a quick and effective stiff arm. Yet it simply looks like crappy tackling more than outstanding running. Personally, when I see highlight videos of the same play over and over, it doesn't make me excited about his resume. Do you suppose there's a Trent Richardson video somewhere in which they just show the same handful of runs or is Richardson such a good back that you can fill a highlight reel with *separate* runs?

Nomad
04-30-2012, 12:27 AM
After watching the video, Hillman seems to have a quick and effective stiff arm. Yet it simply looks like crappy tackling more than outstanding running. Personally, when I see highlight videos of the same play over and over, it doesn't make me excited about his resume. Do you suppose there's a Trent Richardson video somewhere in which they just show the same handful of runs or is Richardson such a good back that you can fill a highlight reel with *separate* runs?

Jim Brown thinks Richardson is just an 'ordinary' RB and didn't want the Browns to draft the kid.

Lancane
04-30-2012, 12:35 AM
After watching the video, Hillman seems to have a quick and effective stiff arm. Yet it simply looks like crappy tackling more than outstanding running. Personally, when I see highlight videos of the same play over and over, it doesn't make me excited about his resume. Do you suppose there's a Trent Richardson video somewhere in which they just show the same handful of runs or is Richardson such a good back that you can fill a highlight reel with *separate* runs?

Ronnie Hillman in two seasons had 573 touches for 3,243 yards and averaged over five yards a carry, Trent Richardson in three seasons with 543 touches and 3,130 yards only having one 1,000 yard plus season, he also averaged over five yards a carry. So it's asinine Hoof that you believe that those were just a handful of runs, Hillman ran for 1,711 yards this season alone. It's not like we're looking at a back who averaged 700 yards a season and had one good year, like Trent Richardson. And if you look at the numbers, Martin and Hillman are similar in many ways.

I'm starting to think that fans just want something to bitch about, their lives must suck without it!

TimHippo
04-30-2012, 12:37 AM
. And if you look at the numbers, Martin and Hillman are similar in many ways.
!

No. Doug Martin is much slower. Hillman is actually fast.

bcbronc
04-30-2012, 12:40 AM
DB, I understand your sentiment...but I've watched what I could find on both Martin and Hillman, and I think Hillman is the real deal. He reminds me of a faster T.D. more then Marshall Faulk, he doesn't see himself as a change of pace back, he thinks of himself as a feature back and he could well be after watching the vids of him I could find.

He did have a 300 carry season in college, so he's not fragile. Doesn't mean he can handle those carries vs NFLers but it's a good sign. Some guys are just good at not getting hit hard.

Also heard complaints about the number of pass receptions he had in his college career, but there's at least a couple highlights in those vids of him being used in the vertical passing game. I don't recall the exact numbers, but something like 27 of his 32 receptions were in his sophomore year...not a huge surprise they didn't play the freshman RB in passing situations. I don't know if he'll be a primary back or not, but I'm excited to see him play.

Northman
04-30-2012, 06:45 AM
After watching the video, Hillman seems to have a quick and effective stiff arm. Yet it simply looks like crappy tackling more than outstanding running. Personally, when I see highlight videos of the same play over and over, it doesn't make me excited about his resume. Do you suppose there's a Trent Richardson video somewhere in which they just show the same handful of runs or is Richardson such a good back that you can fill a highlight reel with *separate* runs?

Richardson is quite different and worlds better (from what ive seen) but thats like comparing apples to oranges. Sproles while very good and still good was still no LT while in SD. Two different types of backs alltogether. Problem is, people want to compare or expect Hillman to be a TD or LT. He's not that type of back. The funny thing is, if you go back a few years and watch the Broncos when they played the Chargers you will find that it wasnt LT that really did the damage vs Denver, it was Sproles. And he did it a lot of differnet ways whether it was catching screens out of the backfield or on special teams. While a guy like Richardson would be nice to have you have to be in the top 5-10 to even consider a player like that. But getting a guy who can still make plays by being shifty is a huge bonus. Go back and look at what Sproles did for NO last year. He was huge contributor to that team.

chazoe60
04-30-2012, 06:51 AM
How are Worthy and Still safer bets when Wolfe out produced both of them?

And I'll say it again; "Did the Pack need Aaron Rodgers when they drafted him? How many QBs went in the first round last year? We picked up the 4th rated QB(by almost everyone) in the draft at 57, seems like pretty good value to me.

Jsteve01
04-30-2012, 08:37 AM
Hillman actually played a ton of receiver in high school

CoachChaz
04-30-2012, 08:42 AM
How are Worthy and Still safer bets when Wolfe out produced both of them?

And I'll say it again; "Did the Pack need Aaron Rodgers when they drafted him? How many QBs went in the first round last year? We picked up the 4th rated QB(by almost everyone) in the draft at 57, seems like pretty good value to me.

...IF he pans out. If he ends up a bust and we dont win anything in the next 3 years, many will wonder what we could have got with that pick that could have helped us sooner

chazoe60
04-30-2012, 09:06 AM
...IF he pans out. If he ends up a bust and we dont win anything in the next 3 years, many will wonder what we could have got with that pick that could have helped us sooner
That can be said about every draft pick for every team. Who at 57 that was on the board would have pushed us over the top?

CoachChaz
04-30-2012, 09:18 AM
That can be said about every draft pick for every team. Who at 57 that was on the board would have pushed us over the top?

Not looking for someone that is a guarantee to "push us over the top". But some one that could see the field, produce and contribute might have been nice. Someone to stop the run? Someone to cover a receiver? Someone to keep Manning upright?

chazoe60
04-30-2012, 10:08 AM
I just think people who don't like the Osweiler pick are forgetting what happened to us when Elway retired. Since Elway we've had such a mixed bag of QBs and it's been frustrating.

I'm glad Elway is looking long term as well as short term. That's what a good FO is supposed to do, do everything they can to win now but also keep the long term health of the franchise as a concern. Good job EFX.

CoachChaz
04-30-2012, 10:19 AM
I just think people who don't like the Osweiler pick are forgetting what happened to us when Elway retired. Since Elway we've had such a mixed bag of QBs and it's been frustrating.

I'm glad Elway is looking long term as well as short term. That's what a good FO is supposed to do, do everything they can to win now but also keep the long term health of the franchise as a concern. Good job EFX.

I totally get his thought process. I just didnt think it needed to be addressed NOW

chazoe60
04-30-2012, 10:28 AM
I totally get his thought process. I just didnt think it needed to be addressed NOW

I think Elway's familiarity with Osweiler was the tipping point. Had Os stayed in school I honestly think QB wouldn't have been addressed in this draft. I also think a good thing abous Os inparticular is his age, he's very young. Os is 21 so even if PM plays four 4 more years we'll be turning the reins over to a 25 year old QB instead of a 27 year old or older guy.

CoachChaz
04-30-2012, 10:43 AM
He still could have waited a year or two. Os will learn nothing from Manning this year anyway

Chef Zambini
04-30-2012, 11:01 AM
Richardson is quite different and worlds better (from what ive seen) but thats like comparing apples to oranges. Sproles while very good and still good was still no LT while in SD. Two different types of backs alltogether. Problem is, people want to compare or expect Hillman to be a TD or LT. He's not that type of back. The funny thing is, if you go back a few years and watch the Broncos when they played the Chargers you will find that it wasnt LT that really did the damage vs Denver, it was Sproles. And he did it a lot of differnet ways whether it was catching screens out of the backfield or on special teams. While a guy like Richardson would be nice to have you have to be in the top 5-10 to even consider a player like that. But getting a guy who can still make plays by being shifty is a huge bonus. Go back and look at what Sproles did for NO last year. He was huge contributor to that team.
I saw the talent in both SPROLES and TURNER when they werre relegated to backing up LT in SD !
sorry their talent was OBVIOUS to me !
SD has no problem identifying talent.
there problem is KEEPING it!
brees
turner
sproles
wide receivers, hello?

Chef Zambini
04-30-2012, 11:03 AM
same with coachestoo.
their GM is a meglomaniac, he is the strength and weakness of the organization.
he thinks his ability to identify talent is more important than the talent.

Ziggy
04-30-2012, 04:39 PM
He still could have waited a year or two. Os will learn nothing from Manning this year anyway

This may be the most ridiculous statement you've ever made Coach. I didn't really care for the Osweiler pick myself....but to say that a rookie QB being in the same meeting rooms, film rooms, and practices with Manning won't learn anything from him is a bit melodramatic.

CoachChaz
04-30-2012, 04:47 PM
This may be the most ridiculous statement you've ever made Coach. I didn't really care for the Osweiler pick myself....but to say that a rookie QB being in the same meeting rooms, film rooms, and practices with Manning won't learn anything from him is a bit melodramatic.

My point being...Manning has new coaches, new teammates, new everything. All this after being off a year in his mid-thirties after multiple neck surgeries. You think he's going to focus on teaching some kid how to take his job in 3-4 years? Will he have the time? Somehow I dont see it working out quite so easily.

I'll retract it a bit. Im sure Osweiler will learn something this year, but dont look for the leaps and bounds that some expect it to be.

Ziggy
04-30-2012, 05:19 PM
My point being...Manning has new coaches, new teammates, new everything. All this after being off a year in his mid-thirties after multiple neck surgeries. You think he's going to focus on teaching some kid how to take his job in 3-4 years? Will he have the time? Somehow I dont see it working out quite so easily.

I'll retract it a bit. Im sure Osweiler will learn something this year, but dont look for the leaps and bounds that some expect it to be.

I think that he'll learn as much as his work ethic allows him to. I'm trying to convince myself that this was a great pick. It hasn't happened yet. I'm going to have to default to 'John Elway can evaluate a QB prospect much better than I can.' It's a QB driven league. There's no 2 ways around it. The best I can figure is that John didn't think he would be able to get a prospect of this caliber in the late second in any other draft. In the end, the value of this pick may be completely dependant on how long Manning plays. If he's only a Broncos for 2 years because of injury or retirement, this was the perfect year to draft a project QB to develop.

Northman
04-30-2012, 05:21 PM
Osweiler will learn the most important thing from Manning this year. Experience. While Manning will be getting accustomed to his new offense and surrounding players its not like he is coming in green as a QB. Manning knows the drill, knows what needs to be done, knows how to lead a team, etc. Most of what Brock learns from Manning wont be what he tells him but what Brock observes from watching him.

Jsteve01
04-30-2012, 06:17 PM
Osweiler will learn the most important thing from Manning this year. Experience. While Manning will be getting accustomed to his new offense and surrounding players its not like he is coming in green as a QB. Manning knows the drill, knows what needs to be done, knows how to lead a team, etc. Most of what Brock learns from Manning wont be what he tells him but what Brock observes from watching him.

we're on the same page. i just posted this in another thread. If anyone thinks Peyton takes the kid under his wing then they're probably delusional, but Brock can get better just by watching Manning's study and practice habits.

CoachChaz
05-01-2012, 08:22 AM
we're on the same page. i just posted this in another thread. If anyone thinks Peyton takes the kid under his wing then they're probably delusional, but Brock can get better just by watching Manning's study and practice habits.

Can he? We dont know that about this kid. Can I replace the engine in my truck by watching someone do it? Let's not assume too much about him just yet. Many NFL teams have done that with QB prospects and failed miserably

Chef Zambini
05-01-2012, 08:31 AM
brock is a bronco,
my opinion on the subject of his selection no longer matters (did it ever)

I hope he becomes "sponge-brock" and absorbes everything from manning.
meanwhile, I will be keeping my eyes on hightower and miller, two guys we should have picked with first round opportunities, and I will of course root for and hope that wolfe and hillman can both justify their selections.
Go Broncos!

Jsteve01
05-01-2012, 08:39 AM
Can he? We dont know that about this kid. Can I replace the engine in my truck by watching someone do it? Let's not assume too much about him just yet. Many NFL teams have done that with QB prospects and failed miserably

Of course you can't Chaz but if you're watching the best engine mechanic in the world, and you're already a mechanic Im sure you could pick up tons of little things that the guy did to perform his task better. You could also watch his work ethic and go, "wow this is what it takes to be the best".

I'm in sales. I've been around some of the best sales guys in their industry and I've always stolen stuff from them to make me better and not one of them took me under his wing. I just did it because I want to succeed.

CoachChaz
05-01-2012, 08:40 AM
brock is a bronco,
my opinion on the subject of his selection no longer matters (did it ever)

I hope he becomes "sponge-brock" and absorbes everything from manning.
meanwhile, I will be keeping my eyes on hightower and miller, two guys we should have picked with first round opportunities, and I will of course root for and hope that wolfe and hillman can both justify their selections.
Go Broncos!

I agree with everything except Hightower.

Jsteve01
05-01-2012, 08:41 AM
brock is a bronco,
my opinion on the subject of his selection no longer matters (did it ever)

I hope he becomes "sponge-brock" and absorbes everything from manning.
meanwhile, I will be keeping my eyes on hightower and miller, two guys we should have picked with first round opportunities, and I will of course root for and hope that wolfe and hillman can both justify their selections.
Go Broncos!

Zam I'm confused In one breath you say we missed out on talent in the first and then in the next you say we should have taken Miller. His value was established as a 4th. where should we have taken him with his injury concerns.

CoachChaz
05-01-2012, 08:46 AM
Of course you can't Chaz but if you're watching the best engine mechanic in the world, and you're already a mechanic Im sure you could pick up tons of little things that the guy did to perform his task better. You could also watch his work ethic and go, "wow this is what it takes to be the best".

I'm in sales. I've been around some of the best sales guys in their industry and I've always stolen stuff from them to make me better and not one of them took me under his wing. I just did it because I want to succeed.

Being in the same industry as you...I can totally relate. Your assessment is fair. However...I know guys that do not learn anything new in this industry and eventually fail. Which guy is Osweiler?

underrated29
05-01-2012, 10:25 AM
my assessment- I dont give a damn what he learns from peyton this year. I want him to learn the offense, the playbook, the terminology and see how peyton reads a defense. Matt cassell did not get decent by learning from brady. He got decent because he knew the offense inside and out and watched how tom reacted to the defenses for a long long time.- Brock just needs to learn the offense and obxerve peyton reading the D.....The rest will come in time, and fortunately for brock- he has a lot of it. Then he can start learning from peyton. And fix his damn throwing motion.

Northman
05-01-2012, 10:36 AM
Zam I'm confused In one breath you say we missed out on talent in the first and then in the next you say we should have taken Miller. His value was established as a 4th. where should we have taken him with his injury concerns.

Yea, that confuses me a lot too. Miller was considered a first round option for Zam but every other team including Denver didnt think so. Furthermore, if Miller was really THAT good why wasnt he taken in the first two rounds? I mean shit, McGahee had a far worse devastating injury in college and was STILL drafted in the first round.

Ziggy
05-01-2012, 12:20 PM
The Denver Broncos are handling things differently behind Manning, drafting Brock Osweiler in the second round. They even had approval from Manning on the strategy.

"On one of the first days after we signed him, he told me after watching what his friends just went through, we have to make sure we get depth at quarterback," Broncos coach John Fox said, via The Denver Post.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828c1e7e/article/peyton-manning-approved-broncos-building-qb-depth

Manning wants the team to succeed even if something happens to him. I think that he may be more willing to take the kid under his wing than we thought.

Ziggy
05-01-2012, 12:25 PM
my assessment- I dont give a damn what he learns from peyton this year. I want him to learn the offense, the playbook, the terminology and see how peyton reads a defense. Matt cassell did not get decent by learning from brady. He got decent because he knew the offense inside and out and watched how tom reacted to the defenses for a long long time.- Brock just needs to learn the offense and obxerve peyton reading the D.....The rest will come in time, and fortunately for brock- he has a lot of it. Then he can start learning from peyton. And fix his damn throwing motion.

His throwing motion isn't going to change. He throws the ball exactly like Rivers. It may be unorthodox, but it works. He has the strongest arm in this draft, and his 6'7 frame makes up for the lower release point. His throwing motion is fine. He gets the ball out quickly and has the arm strength to make all of the throws while doing it. As his footwork and reads improve, his accuracy will improve.

NightTerror218
05-01-2012, 12:44 PM
His throwing motion isn't going to change. He throws the ball exactly like Rivers. It may be unorthodox, but it works. He has the strongest arm in this draft, and his 6'7 frame makes up for the lower release point. His throwing motion is fine. He gets the ball out quickly and has the arm strength to make all of the throws while doing it. As his footwork and reads improve, his accuracy will improve.

Actually his throwing motion has one problem. It was one of the problems TT had. His throwing motion changes and is inconsistent. By that I mean his arm takes a different path of motion and is not the same.

Ravage!!!
05-01-2012, 01:28 PM
The arm will depending on whats in front of you. I think that considering Oz is accurate, and has a strong arm, they won't mess with anything there. The most important part is that the ball comes out on time, his footwork works with his body, and he has a strong enough arm to throw "off platform." I don't think much will change with Oz's mechanics.

Chef Zambini
05-01-2012, 03:10 PM
Zam I'm confused In one breath you say we missed out on talent in the first and then in the next you say we should have taken Miller. His value was established as a 4th. where should we have taken him with his injury concerns.my bad I am the one thats "confused! I keep saying miller when I mean MARTIN, doug martin, the boise RB !
we could have taken hbim at 31, instead we let TAMPA have him.
He is the everydown back that FITS a manning offense where the guys stay on the field and manning calls the play at the LOS. we need a guy that can run, block and catch passes, a guy whose presence gives NO INDICATION of our intentions a guy that facilitates the entire offense, run or pass !
MARTIN is that guy, most describe hillman as a specialist/ sproles type.
If EFX wasnt so fixated on hillman and others they might have realized they misses an opp to take the second best RB in the draft, a RICHARDSON type back !

Northman
05-01-2012, 03:15 PM
my bad I am the one thats "confused! I keep saying miller when I mean MARTIN, doug martin, the boise RB !
we could have taken hbim at 31, instead we let TAMPA have him.
He is the everydown back that FITS a manning offense where the guys stay on the field and manning calls the play at the LOS. we need a guy that can run, block and catch passes, a guy whose presence gives NO INDICATION of our intentions a guy that facilitates the entire offense, run or pass !
MARTIN is that guy, most describe hillman as a specialist/ sproles type.
If EFX wasnt so fixated on hillman and others they might have realized they misses an opp to take the second best RB in the draft, a RICHARDSON type back !


You keep saying that EFX were fixated on Hillman and no one else. You dont know that dude. Denver may have liked Martin but not like him THAT much to take him. Right now it seems that EFX is more interested in keeping McGahee and Moreno as the primary backs and bringing in Hillman to be a 3rd down specialist ala Sproles. Funny thing is what if Martin goes on to be a bust in Tampa? Will you still cry because they didnt draft him?

Ravage!!!
05-01-2012, 03:26 PM
Yeah, this whole "they were so 'fixated' with that player they didn't look around" thing is absolutely absurd. Listening to some ex-GMs and coaches on NFL serius radio and they just get irritated at those that have never been in a war room making such stupid statements. It really is a very ignorant thing to say, especially speaking from not just little, but ZERO, experience whatsoever (no, they don't count Madden or Fantasy).

I'm glad we didn't use a first round pick on a RB. Martin wasn't anywhere near the likes of Richardson... probably the onlly RB that I would want my team to take in the first round. If Denver was in the same position as the Browns, I still would have wanted them to take CLaiborn.

bcbronc
05-01-2012, 03:39 PM
He is the everydown back that FITS a manning offense where the guys stay on the field and manning calls the play at the LOS. we need a guy that can run, block and catch passes, a guy whose presence gives NO INDICATION of our intentions a guy that facilitates the entire offense, run or pass !
MARTIN is that guy, most describe hillman as a specialist/ sproles type.


I don't really get this. Why is Martin the guy that can run, block and catch passes but Hillman isn't? I do get what people see in Martin, but look at their stats. At the end of Martin's RS Sophomore year, he had 11 receptions. At the end of Hillman's TRUE Sophomore year, he had 33. Martin's best seasons, his JR and SR years, he had 28 receptions. Hillman's best is 24. Hillman has also had 264 carry + 311 carry seasons, Martin's top carry seasons are 201 + 263. Going by these numbers, there's really no reason to say Martin can be something Hillman can't.

Biggest difference between the two is size, but Hillman is 3 years younger. By the time he's 23 he'll likely be in the 215 or more, which isn't too small at 5'9".

MOtorboat
05-01-2012, 03:40 PM
I don't really get this. Why is Martin the guy that can run, block and catch passes but Hillman isn't? I do get what people see in Martin, but look at their stats. At the end of Martin's RS Sophomore year, he had 11 receptions. At the end of Hillman's TRUE Sophomore year, he had 33. Martin's best seasons, his JR and SR years, he had 28 receptions. Hillman's best is 24. Hillman has also had 264 carry + 311 carry seasons, Martin's top carry seasons are 201 + 263. Going by these numbers, there's really no reason to say Martin can be something Hillman can't.

Biggest difference between the two is size, but Hillman is 3 years younger. By the time he's 23 he'll likely be in the 215 or more, which isn't too small at 5'9".

Because Denver picked him and Zam is always smarter than the Broncos front office. Always.

Jsteve01
05-01-2012, 03:57 PM
aaaaaan Hillman played receiver in high school so I believe in his ability as a receiver far more than Martin's. Martin's big leg up are in the size and pass pro department, but then as I keep saying Hillman is only 20 years old there is no reason he can't gain 15 to 20 pounds in 4 or 5 years.

Ziggy
05-02-2012, 06:47 AM
Doug Martin was a huge favorite of mine. When I said that he might be a first round pick back in January, some folks thought I was crazy. It looks like EFX wanted a back with breakaway speed to compliment Willis. As much as I like Doug Martin, I'll take the penetrating UT all day long.

Jsteve01
05-02-2012, 08:51 AM
Doug Martin was a huge favorite of mine. When I said that he might be a first round pick back in January, some folks thought I was crazy. It looks like EFX wanted a back with breakaway speed to compliment Willis. As much as I like Doug Martin, I'll take the penetrating UT all day long.

pairing ta'amu with Wolfe could have happened and would have been the icing on the cake.

Ziggy
05-02-2012, 03:32 PM
pairing ta'amu with Wolfe could have happened and would have been the icing on the cake.

True, but if you go back to the original post, the Broncos passed on all of the shorter DT's. It looks to me like they favor height and quickness over girth and strength. The only Dlineman on the roster under 6'3 are Elvis and Siliga, and Siliga is probably training camp fodder. The Broncos are building this defense to be solid against the run, and kick butt against the pass. Taller lineman make it harder for QB's to see the passing lanes. They also knock down more passes.

silkamilkamonico
05-02-2012, 03:45 PM
Rich Gannon threw roughly 2.500 pas in Oakland, and I bet never threw with the same motion.

Don't understand this Doug Martin HYPE. He ISN'T on the calibur of AP, or Trent Richardson...therefor no thanks.

Jsteve01
05-02-2012, 05:44 PM
True, but if you go back to the original post, the Broncos passed on all of the shorter DT's. It looks to me like they favor height and quickness over girth and strength. The only Dlineman on the roster under 6'3 are Elvis and Siliga, and Siliga is probably training camp fodder. The Broncos are building this defense to be solid against the run, and kick butt against the pass. Taller lineman make it harder for QB's to see the passing lanes. They also knock down more passes.

ta'amu measured 6'3" at the combine. He's an inch shorter than poe with the same length arms...i realize im nitpicking but I think he would have been a good value in the 5th.

Ziggy
05-03-2012, 06:04 AM
ta'amu measured 6'3" at the combine. He's an inch shorter than poe with the same length arms...i realize im nitpicking but I think he would have been a good value in the 5th.

He would have been great value in the 5th, but he's not quick enough. Ta'amu has the height and weight, but nowhere near the speed that the Broncos are looking for on the Dline. They're not drafting or signing pluggers in Denver any more. They're going with guys that can run. There were also some questions about Ta'amu's stamina which doesn't fit the M.O. of this front office. Ta'amu and Worthy were high on my list and I still think that they will be good-great NFL players, but they don't fit the mold of the new Broncos Dlineman. I think speed, or lack thereof, is a reason that Marcus Thomas wasn't re-signed as well.

TXBRONC
05-03-2012, 06:30 AM
ta'amu measured 6'3" at the combine. He's an inch shorter than poe with the same length arms...i realize im nitpicking but I think he would have been a good value in the 5th.


He would have been great value in the 5th, but he's not quick enough. Ta'amu has the height and weight, but nowhere near the speed that the Broncos are looking for on the Dline. They're not drafting or signing pluggers in Denver any more. They're going with guys that can run. There were also some questions about Ta'amu's stamina which doesn't fit the M.O. of this front office. Ta'amu and Worthy were high on my list and I still think that they will be good-great NFL players, but they don't fit the mold of the new Broncos Dlineman. I think speed, or lack thereof, is a reason that Marcus Thomas wasn't re-signed as well.


How did Ta'amu do in his workout at the combine? The combine isn't all in all to save all but can give some indication what kind of abilities the guy has.

MOtorboat
05-03-2012, 08:08 AM
How did Ta'amu do in his workout at the combine? The combine isn't all in all to save all but can give some indication what kind of abilities the guy has.

I think the combine a lot of times is more about effort and interviewing than it is raw numbers...

Jsteve01
05-03-2012, 09:20 AM
splits are what matters for tackles not 40 times, and I disagree Mo. Poe is a late first early second rounder without his workouts and in all honesty Wolfe was perceived by many as having subpar athletic ability prior to the combine. It may not be the end all be all but there's no way a guy with such lackluster numbers as Poe gets picked at 11 without that boost.

Chef Zambini
05-04-2012, 09:13 AM
I care more about what a guy does on gameday than what he does in shorts .
lo
standing broad jump?
please.
vertical/
lets measure it with pads and a helmet on a player!
saME WITH THE 40 !

Northman
05-04-2012, 09:46 AM
Kyle Orton looks awesome in practice. Just saying......

claymore
05-04-2012, 09:56 AM
Kyle Orton looks awesome in practice. Just saying......

I disagree. I think Tebow looked so bad that it made Orton look awesome. You put Orton up against an high caliber QB and he would look like orton in practice.

My prediction is that Sanchez looks awesome in TC this year. :)

Ravage!!!
05-04-2012, 10:19 AM
I disagree. I think Tebow looked so bad that it made Orton look awesome. You put Orton up against an high caliber QB and he would look like orton in practice.

My prediction is that Sanchez looks awesome in TC this year. :)

Thats a good point. No one said Orton looked GREAT in practice, they just reported on how bad Tebow looked.

I think practice is VERY important. If it wasn't, guys like Manning, Brees and Brady wouldn't be known for working so hard in practice. But different discussion.

As far as doing the excercises in pads. Man, what a pain that would be to have to equip everyone that showed up. Do you expect the colleges to provide equipment for them? Does the NFL? If it's the NFL, how much time do you spend finding, fiitting, and equiping someone just to watch them run and jump?

So if EVERYONE is not wearing pads, then the comparibles are the same. Everyone has the same "advantage." What a person does in shorts and shirt isn't going to be much different with pads, anyway. You are there to measure the athleticism of the player.

chazoe60
05-04-2012, 10:39 AM
Orton looks awesome in any uniform other than the Broncos. Worst two+ years of Broncofandom of my life. Most pitiful excuse for a QB ever. Regardless of your opinion of Tebow at least he gave us some excitement on the field. With Tim we didn't know what was going to happen, with Orton I knew we'd lose almost every single close game. I've never seen a dude fail so miserably in crunch time.

Oh it's a great time to be a Bronco fan now. We have a HOF qb and a young guy we can have hope in behind him.

Jsteve01
05-04-2012, 10:57 AM
Orton looks awesome in any uniform other than the Broncos. Worst two+ years of Broncofandom of my life. Most pitiful excuse for a QB ever. Regardless of your opinion of Tebow at least he gave us some excitement on the field. With Tim we didn't know what was going to happen, with Orton I knew we'd lose almost every single close game. I've never seen a dude fail so miserably in crunch time.

Oh it's a great time to be a Bronco fan now. We have a HOF qb and a young guy we can have hope in behind him.


no chaz apparently you haven't looked at the percentages...we're virtually assured that Osweiler is going to suck

Ziggy
05-04-2012, 02:12 PM
How did Ta'amu do in his workout at the combine? The combine isn't all in all to save all but can give some indication what kind of abilities the guy has.

He ran a slow 40 and then didn't do the shuttle or 3 cone drill at all.

Jsteve01
05-04-2012, 03:03 PM
He ran a slow 40 and then didn't do the shuttle or 3 cone drill at all.

just read somewhere that teams are concerned about his knees. Doesn't surprise me after he played at 380

topscribe
05-04-2012, 05:04 PM
He ran a slow 40 and then didn't do the shuttle or 3 cone drill at all.
Ta'amu might have had a good reason for not running the cones. There were
reports that he was a bit stiff in the hips. The cones might have exposed that.
Just a guess . . .

Jsteve01
05-04-2012, 05:52 PM
Ta'amu might have had a good reason for not running the cones. There were
reports that he was a bit stiff in the hips. The cones might have exposed that.
Just a guess . . .

just a thought...I don't pay my 340 pound NT for his performance in the 40 or any of the quickness drills. I pay him to blow up opposing linemen and hold POA, which is what he did. I think teams were worried about his weight, but it sounds like just cutting out rice was the ticket for him

Chef Zambini
05-05-2012, 11:21 AM
the NFL is a billion dollar industry. thewy can afford to gear these guys up for measurements, and I am of the opinion that some guys can be impaired by all the gear, especially runningbacks and receivers !
on gameday they wear the gear, so if I am going to take combine numbers into consideration when drafting a guy and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not MILLIONS on the selection, i wanna know how he performs in full gear, cause the only part of his performance that matters is how he performs on GAM<EDAY when he is wearing all that shit !
if a guy is gonna wear a brace in a game.
, thets lets measure his abilities with that brace on !
and while I am at it. no stamina testing at the combine/ WTF? !!!!
how is this guy gonna perform in the fourth quarter?
seems like a reasonable concern yet no stamina testing otheer than the bench press and upper body fatigue!
in so many ways the combine and the importance placed on its data is a JOKE !
standing broad jump, rediculous !

shank
05-05-2012, 12:08 PM
the NFL is a billion dollar industry. thewy can afford to gear these guys up for measurements, and I am of the opinion that some guys can be impaired by all the gear, especially runningbacks and receivers !
on gameday they wear the gear, so if I am going to take combine numbers into consideration when drafting a guy and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not MILLIONS on the selection, i wanna know how he performs in full gear, cause the only part of his performance that matters is how he performs on GAM<EDAY when he is wearing all that shit !
if a guy is gonna wear a brace in a game.
, thets lets measure his abilities with that brace on !
and while I am at it. no stamina testing at the combine/ WTF? !!!!
how is this guy gonna perform in the fourth quarter?
seems like a reasonable concern yet no stamina testing otheer than the bench press and upper body fatigue!
in so many ways the combine and the importance placed on its data is a JOKE !
standing broad jump, rediculous !
game tape?

Ravage!!!
05-05-2012, 12:51 PM
game tape?

That, seeing them play in person, knowing them at senior bowls...interviewing the coaches they have known for years. THose are all much more important than the numbers at the combine. We've seen a TON of "combine" junkies rise like weeds purely bassed on their combine numbers.

Players arent' going to be hindered by football gear that much, its really not that confining and impairing, and that was back when I played. The Equipment is just that much better today. Plus,.. do you then let WRs run without thigh pads/knee pads..and then make other positions wear them? Wearing equipment at the combine just makes absolutely no sense for the purpose that it serves.

If the coaches/GMs are making picks on the combine alone, then they probably are not very good at their job, anyway.

Chef Zambini
05-05-2012, 01:27 PM
senior bowl, this used to imply going against the best, now it just nmeans going against the seniors.
far too many talented underclassmen.
far vtoo many evaluators get enamored with these single games (bowls0 and non-playing events, when what the kid did on gameday is far more important !
I can see where a team might be struggling between player A and player B, and after all the debate with no clear winner, using combine performance to nudge the selection, but many players get pushed ahead of other players based on a combine work-out or a singular performance in a bowl game, stoopid.

Ravage!!!
05-05-2012, 02:13 PM
You learn more about the kid at the senior bowl as a person. How they think, their philosophy on working. How they practice, how they approach the game...things that you dont' get to see on game tape.

its an advantage to get to coach the senior bowl....and there is nothing wrong with comparing talent that goes against other seniors. You are still evaluating them as a player. They won't play against everyone anyway. Nearly every draft pick usually only gets to play against ONE other of the 1st round picks, at all..... if ever.

johnjoda
05-05-2012, 02:38 PM
I have learned Elway is a poker player, and...he is good at it.

I like that they rely on their own instincts and experience and ignore conventional wisdom. Much of the "conventional wisdom" comes from ex-coaches and FO people. Emphasis on the EX!

Ziggy
05-05-2012, 07:48 PM
I have learned Elway is a poker player, and...he is good at it.

I like that they rely on their own instincts and experience and ignore conventional wisdom. Much of the "conventional wisdom" comes from ex-coaches and FO people. Emphasis on the EX!

Wecome to the forum. :welcome:

Chef Zambini
05-08-2012, 10:30 AM
i learned that it was xanders last !