PDA

View Full Version : Ten Things I Think I Think...........



WARHORSE
05-07-2009, 05:56 PM
Ten Things I Think I Think
1. Im gonna give McMuffin a chance to put his ability on display with the QBs we have, and I believe our offense has a tremendous amount of ability, most notably our offensive line.

The offense may not be air-McFlair, but I think it can be very good, especially if our backs do well.

Peyton, Knowshon, Buckhalter and Jordon are a very potent bunch when put together. If we can produce a dominant run game, the rest is duck soup.

2. Im really eager to see our special teams play. It seems to me that we have quite a few players who have excelled in a number of special teams areas on the roster now. I wanna see us dropping opposing return players as soon as they catch the ball, and when was the last time Denver ATTEMPTED to block a punt?


3. Put the ball in the hands of the WRs, let em rip.

One thing that we have going for us in the deliverance of Cutler, is the fact that most of our passing was short to intermediate. The damage that Marshall does is ATC, he has never been a guy we throw down the field to on a consistent basis. Same for Royal and Stokes. Orton has more than enough arm strength to take advantage of our players, and in fact, his lesser arm strength may just help one of our players out: Marshall. He had a habit of dropping some of the passes delivered by Cutlers cannon.

4. Eddie Royal is going to do some special things this year. He asks of himself before anyone asks him to go the extra mile, and this imo will lead to an even better player than he was last year.

5. The Broncos offense is still going to be one of the better offenses in the league. Most importantly, its going to be better at scoring. Maybe not as high in yardage, due to less passing and a more balanced attack, but better at scoring.

6. The defense will take a step up. One problem with having a terrible defense: the opposing offenses dictate what theyre going to do.

Nolan has the benefit of being new, and since he doesnt coach a reactionary style defense, his attacking packages, while some will be the same from other defenses hes coached, no one has tape of how he will use the players on our roster.

They wont know where the pressure is going to be coming from. An advantage early on at the least. Most people who look at our team on paper will say, 'They didnt address the front seven'.

But we did of course. Yes, we didnt bring in a Haynesworth or Jared Allen, but we have a different front seven in more ways than one. It actually will be a new front 13 or so, because we will be using at least that many players to address the front seven on a situational basis.

Funny thing about a defense that has holes in it. When a good player knows he cant trust the guy next to him to hold up his end of the bargain, even though they know what they should do, they tend to try and be ready for all situations. Unfortunately, that breaks down the defense in front of them as well.

Though Im not saying our defense will be stellar, I am saying it wont be anything like last years imo.

7. The Ryan Express........our offensive line..........is going to be asked to do more this year. McFlurry is going to incorporate pulls and traps and probably even something different.......perhaps counter tre's........this year along the offensive line, while keeping the zone blocking as well. Im not sure if any other team does all of this, but Im convinced we have the line to pull it off. We have big, athletic, mobile linemen with quick feet. Unlike the undersized prototypes of the past, this line is mobile AND big. I dont see any other line in the league to compare except possibly Philly with their new changes....but that remains to be seen. How much of a difference will this make? We have the best pass protecting line in the league. Mixing up the run schemes can only enhance your offensive run game if you have a line to pull it off........which we do.......AND.....we have great depth.

8. The TEs are going to be fine. Even though Cutler is gone, I think Scheffler will be just as effective, if not even moreso. Ortons favorite target was TE Olsen last year, and Cutler seemed to overlook a wide open Scheffler a number of times last year. I think this is because Cutlers first tendency is to look downfield. That is not Ortons style. Orton is ball security, GManager. Also, Graham made plays last year. I think Shanny helped him get a new mindset. "If you want us to throw to you, then make plays". I think that will continue, and his blocking is still stellar.

9. The runningbacks, even without Knowshon, will be a staple in the offense. Last year, McDaniels running game was fifth in the league.

He used four backs for the most part to do his damage, and they all were put in position to succeed. Buckhalter is a very good runningback that has spent his career in an offense that doesnt run the ball. I look for him to surprise some people. Also, I think Jordan may end up being on the cut list when all is said and done because of Peyton Hillis.

The short yardage game belongs to Hillis. He will be a jack of all trades type of fullback....thats called versatility....and McDaniels M.O. Jordan got let go for a reason in NE, and his appeal to to McDaniels is hes another guy to help coach the new offense up to speed. Once we get near september, I think he may be gone. Of course it all depends on the performance of others, and none can be discounted.

WITH Knowshon, we can only hope he turns out to be all we hope. At this point, his demeanor and work ethic seem to be all we can ask. Lets hope his potential comes to realization as we move forward.

10. Lastly, I keep thinking about how terribly Cassell played last year early on, and how well he played later in the season. I think Im going to be patient throughtout this season. Even if we lose early, Im going to look for improvement on the team from week to week.

Last season, Atlanta and the Dolphins were in the same boat as we are going into the season.

I wont be surprised if we surprise alot of people.

Nor will I be surprised if we dont.

I prefer the former though......................................

BroncoWave
05-07-2009, 06:12 PM
Great post! This is the WAR we all know and love!

honz
05-07-2009, 06:14 PM
Great post. 13-3. Orton 4 MVP. Super Bowl!

Grover
05-07-2009, 06:28 PM
a couple of additions:

1) Our nickel and dime packages will be much improved.

I say that because of the addition of Alphonso Smith and the added pressure of Dummerville and Ayers rushing from the outsides.


2) We will adjust our schemes and actually react to what is or isn't working during the game.

McDaniels has said he will adjust weekly based on our opponents. I'm looking forward to being able to shift strategy on game day if needed.

3) Last year, our team intercepted the opposing quarterback 6 times. This year I think we are at at least 12.

Dreadnought
05-07-2009, 06:30 PM
I'm not as optimistic as you are, but a well argued post

T.K.O.
05-07-2009, 06:51 PM
i agree with most of the op,and its refreshing to see upbeat posts like this that are basically sound,as opposed to the boo hoo were never gonna win again doomsday posts.
im no expert on it but i think i have read in the past that nolan really does preach a "read and react" style .instead of the stand there and give up a bunch of yards style we've been using,anyone know more about nolans philosophy?

Dreadnought
05-07-2009, 06:52 PM
i agree with most of the op,and its refreshing to see upbeat posts like this that are basically sound,as opposed to the boo hoo were never gonna win again doomsday posts.
im no expert on it but i think i have read in the past that nolan really does preach a "read and react" style .instead of the stand there and give up a bunch of yards style we've been using,anyone know more about nolans philosophy?

Its not Bob Slowick's. That's good enough for me.

T.K.O.
05-07-2009, 06:55 PM
Its not Bob Slowick's. That's good enough for me.

i know but i'm hoping for a bit more than the " we cant get any worse theory";)

BroncoWave
05-07-2009, 06:56 PM
Its not Bob Slowick's. That's good enough for me.

I'd be more comfortable with the players just coaching themselves then Bob Slowick! :lol:

Superchop 7
05-07-2009, 07:19 PM
We will have the worst d-line in football.

TRUTH

T.K.O.
05-07-2009, 07:30 PM
We will have the worst d-line in football.

TRUTH

i agree with most of the op,and its refreshing to see upbeat posts like this that are basically sound,as opposed to the boo hoo were never gonna win again doomsday posts.:elefant::defense::elefant:
we will be in the top 5 defenses...see i can play too

OrangeHoof
05-07-2009, 07:34 PM
I think the first thing that needs to be established is whether the Broncos new offense will try to run or pass. If they lead with the run and establish it, it will be easier to pass and easier for the gamebreakers, Marshall and Royal, to make a big play.

If they try short passes first (which seems more the McDaniels style), then they will need those passes to succeed or the Broncos may find it difficult to establish either part of the offensive gameplan.

A good running game will keep the defense off the field longer which will then keep the opponent from running up the score. With their defense, as I see it, the Broncos offense is going to need to score big numbers to keep up with their porous defense. If McDaniels' offense doesn't begin clicking early, it will be a long season of gradual progress but no playoff hopes.

Krugan
05-07-2009, 07:46 PM
Is this group of D players going to be smart enough to play that style of defense?

And im serious with that question, my thought is NO, they couldnt read anything or react to anything last year, until it was 10 yards past them.

MOtorboat
05-07-2009, 07:49 PM
And im serious with that question, my thought is NO, they couldnt read anything or react to anything last year, until it was 10 yards past them.

They've replaced almost the entire defense, so who, exactly, are you referring to?

Krugan
05-07-2009, 07:50 PM
They've replaced almost the entire defense, so who, exactly, are you referring to?

SO why dont you answer the question with something other than a question.

Do YOU think they are smart enough to handle this sort of Defense?

T.K.O.
05-07-2009, 07:54 PM
Is this group of D players going to be smart enough to play that style of defense?

And im serious with that question, my thought is NO, they couldnt read anything or react to anything last year, until it was 10 yards past them.

i dont think its so much a question of "smart" as it is familiarity these guys have had a "new scheme" to learn every year including the upcoming one,so we cant expect a huge turn around .
but i do believe slowitt was the wrong guy and we have a better group.
so im expecting improvement.
some of what was learned last year will carry over as it we did do some 3-4
but shanny scraped it when he thought we had a chance to go places
(he realized it may not be a total rebuilding season) when we were kickin butt in our division

MOtorboat
05-07-2009, 08:09 PM
SO why dont you answer the question with something other than a question.

Do YOU think they are smart enough to handle this sort of Defense?

You have to qualify the statement. You bring up last year, but since the players are different, which players are you referring to?

MOtorboat
05-07-2009, 08:13 PM
i dont think its so much a question of "smart" as it is familiarity these guys have had a "new scheme" to learn every year including the upcoming one,so we cant expect a huge turn around .
but i do believe slowitt was the wrong guy and we have a better group.
so im expecting improvement.
some of what was learned last year will carry over as it we did do some 3-4
but shanny scraped it when he thought we had a chance to go places
(he realized it may not be a total rebuilding season) when we were kickin butt in our division

Which guys? The defense is going to be almost totally overhauled?

Hawgdriver
05-07-2009, 08:30 PM
Some of the moves in the defensive secondary should help the D. I'm not sure what Nolan's turnover stats were as a coach. If we get 20 picks this year we will be in the playoffs. If some of these rookies step up on D, we might be able to get there.

Hawgdriver
05-07-2009, 08:41 PM
Some of the moves in the defensive secondary should help the D. I'm not sure what Nolan's turnover stats were as a coach. If we get 20 picks this year we will be in the playoffs. If some of these rookies step up on D, we might be able to get there.

Ha, I just realized that Nolan was the defensive coordinator for the Ravens from 02-04...I took my eye off the ball...

Ravens under Nolan had 76 picks in 3 seasons...Ravens had 60 in the three years before he arrived.
Jets 2001: 20
Redskins: 16, 13, 21

Also, when you look at those same teams after he left, they continued be near the top of the league in picks. For example, his last year with the NYG he had 22 picks, the next year the Giants had 27 picks. Ravens in '06 had 28 picks.

There is evidence he knows how to build a turnover-generating defense in the secondary. Of course, this goes hand in hand with pressure from the line and the ability to stop the run (and get leads and force offenses to pass).

T.K.O.
05-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Which guys? The defense is going to be almost totally overhauled?

the whole unit. the new guys as well as the hold-overs all have to learn a new system,new coaches etc...
champ
boss
clemons
crowder
moss
larson
powell
thomas
peterson
all wont be gone?

MOtorboat
05-07-2009, 08:51 PM
the whole unit. the new guys as well as the hold-overs all have to learn a new system,new coaches etc...
champ
boss
clemons
crowder
moss
larson
powell
thomas
peterson
all wont be gone?

Clemons, Crowder, Moss, Larsen and two of Powell, Thomas, Peterson won't even start....so that's 6 of 9 players listed that probably won't start.

I have no clue. It's a new system, but to even bring up last year in evaluating this year is just, frankly, irrelevant.

Krugan
05-07-2009, 08:58 PM
You have to qualify the statement. You bring up last year, but since the players are different, which players are you referring to?

I guess you, as a poster prefer to be difficult, so ill humor you.

They arent all new:

DJ
Thomas
Peterson
Boss Bailey
Champ Bailey
Moss
Crowder
Doomerville
As well as the second stringers
Woodyard
Larson
Josh Bell
Jack Williams
Assorted others

Now can you step up to the plate and offer an opinion? Or will I have to further qualify a simple question.

Not to mention it was a question asking nothing more than a opinion, I offered an opinion, I dont think we have the talent level on the defensive side of the ball, much less the smarts to run a multi task defense.

Or if you decide to just flush it, please flush it. I respect your thoughts, but seriously man, just answer with your thoughts.

Krugan
05-07-2009, 09:00 PM
Clemons, Crowder, Moss, Larsen and two of Powell, Thomas, Peterson won't even start....so that's 6 of 9 players listed that probably won't start.

I have no clue. It's a new system, but to even bring up last year in evaluating this year is just, frankly, irrelevant.

No really it isnt, they didnt perform last year, regardless of the scheme that was in place. What makes you believe they will be any better now?

MOtorboat
05-07-2009, 09:02 PM
I guess you, as a poster prefer to be difficult, so ill humor you.

They arent all new:

DJ
Thomas
Peterson
Boss Bailey
Champ Bailey
Moss
Crowder
Doomerville
As well as the second stringers
Woodyard
Larson
Josh Bell
Jack Williams
Assorted others

Now can you step up to the plate and offer an opinion? Or will I have to further qualify a simple question.

Not to mention it was a question asking nothing more than a opinion, I offered an opinion, I dont think we have the talent level on the defensive side of the ball, much less the smarts to run a multi task defense.

Or if you decide to just flush it, please flush it. I respect your thoughts, but seriously man, just answer with your thoughts.


No really it isnt, they didnt perform last year, regardless of the scheme that was in place. What makes you believe they will be any better now?

How hard is it to understand that there will be probably eight different starters on defense next year, thus making references to last year irrelevant?

WARHORSE
05-07-2009, 09:19 PM
Somebody just tell the man that the defensive players brought in will be able to handle the scheme.

They targeted players SPECIFIC to what they were going to be implementing.....including.....intelligence.

So yes, the defense is smart enough.

honz
05-07-2009, 09:22 PM
The main positions that need to read and react are the linebackers and the safeties...other positions require it sometimes as well, but not nearly as much. We will have 6 starting safeties/linebackers and only one or two of them will have been with the team last year...probably DJ and Doom. Most likely everyone else will be new so it's really hard to say. I know Dawkins has tremendous instincts, but I don't know enough about the rest of the new guys.

gobroncsnv
05-07-2009, 09:27 PM
I would bet that Orton will be sacked more than Cut-ster was... several observations on him was that he does hang onto the ball waiting until the receiver is wide open, not throwing until the last possible minute.. Still, sacks are preferable to picks.

MOtorboat
05-07-2009, 09:27 PM
I would bet that Orton will be sacked more than Cut-ster was... several observations on him was that he does hang onto the ball waiting until the receiver is wide open, not throwing until the last possible minute.. Still, sacks are preferable to picks.

Our offensive line is worlds ahead of the Bears.

OrangeHoof
05-07-2009, 09:44 PM
So, to some up:

Offense with new scheme, new tailback and new QB = great just because last year's offense was great.

Defense with new scheme, new d-line and new secondary = won't suck just because last year's defense sucked.

That's the gist of what I'm reading from the optimists.

Couldn't one assume that last year's results are just as irrelevant to the offense as it is to the defense?

MOtorboat
05-07-2009, 09:45 PM
So, to some up:

Offense with new scheme, new tailback and new QB = great just because last year's offense was great.

Defense with new scheme, new d-line and new secondary = won't suck just because last year's defense sucked.

That's the gist of what I'm reading from the optimists.

Couldn't one assume that last year's results are just as irrelevant to the offense as it is to the defense?

Or rather...how about...I have no freakin' clue?

topscribe
05-07-2009, 10:27 PM
They've replaced almost the entire defense, so who, exactly, are you referring to?

Exactly right. One of the most common mistakes I have seen is judging a team
from its previous year's performance. Doormats have become strong teams
within a year (Miami), and Super Bowl teams have taken a dump amazingly
fast (Seattle).

This Broncos team has a host of new faces, and even some of the returning
ones will be playing in new positions. So how do we know what they're going
to do, when even McDaniels said he doesn't yet know? One thing for sure: we
don't know from last year . . .

-----

shank
05-07-2009, 10:39 PM
So, to some up:

Offense with new scheme, new tailback and new QB = great just because last year's offense was great.

Defense with new scheme, new d-line and new secondary = won't suck just because last year's defense sucked.

That's the gist of what I'm reading from the optimists.

Couldn't one assume that last year's results are just as irrelevant to the offense as it is to the defense?

i agree wtih mo, last year isn't relevant. i'm optimistic about this season because of the pieces that i see we actually have now.

we have lots of talent on offense, an offensive coach coming in with a proven scheme and the right players to run it. there's no reason to expect bad things on offense.

on defense, we have gotten rid of or knocked a bunch of scrubs down the depth charts. we have signed proven players and made the biggest upgrade to our team of the offseason: firing bob slowick.

your comparison might fit some, but not all of the optimists.

Lonestar
05-08-2009, 01:07 AM
Exactly right. One of the most common mistakes I have seen is judging a team
from its previous year's performance. Doormats have become strong teams
within a year (Miami), and Super Bowl teams have taken a dump amazingly
fast (Seattle).

This Broncos team has a host of new faces, and even some of the returning
ones will be playing in new positions. So how do we know what they're going
to do, when even McDaniels said he doesn't yet know? One thing for sure: we
don't know from last year . . .

-----

I do know that the best players will be on the field and they are all competing for playing time .. I pretty certain they all KNOW this by now.

If they have not figured it out yet they will be cut before the season starts.. no one will be kept that is not performing no one will be held on to for "potential" save perhaps the newbie QB who will see PS time..

Dirk
05-08-2009, 06:30 AM
no one will be held on to for "potential"

Or because the HC's ego is so big that he can't admit he made a mistake so he keeps scrubs on the team just because he picked them.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the winning years of Shanny...but without Elway and TD....and the one good season with Plummer, Shanny was stale and couldn't get past the idea that he wasn't that great of a player evaluator and if a player he chose wasn't that good..he seemed to hold regardless.

I too am optimistic for the upcoming season!! :salute:

Den21vsBal19
05-08-2009, 07:00 AM
Hell, as long as Nolan jacks in Slowick's 10 yard cushions on 3rd & 5, the D should improve 20-30% ;)

WARHORSE
05-08-2009, 10:55 AM
So, to some up:

Offense with new scheme, new tailback and new QB = great just because last year's offense was great.

Defense with new scheme, new d-line and new secondary = won't suck just because last year's defense sucked.

That's the gist of what I'm reading from the optimists.

Couldn't one assume that last year's results are just as irrelevant to the offense as it is to the defense?



Remember though, as one of the optimists, these are the things that I think........


If you wish to 'some' up things differently, you can always write ten things that you think, no?


:defense:

powderaddict
05-08-2009, 01:49 PM
So, to some up:

Offense with new scheme, new tailback and new QB = great just because last year's offense was great.

Defense with new scheme, new d-line and new secondary = won't suck just because last year's defense sucked.

That's the gist of what I'm reading from the optimists.

Couldn't one assume that last year's results are just as irrelevant to the offense as it is to the defense?

Possibly/probably up to 8 new starters on D - Last year 1, maybe 2 players that really could be considered legit star talent - Champ, and DJ (some would argue DJ, but I think he's star talent)

Possibly 3 new starters on O - Including 2 pro-bowl talen tackles, very good interior linemen, 2 very good (I would argue star talent) at WR, 2 very good TE's, plus Hillis who I think is very good at both FB and HB.

BIIIIIIIIIGGG difference!

powderaddict
05-08-2009, 01:54 PM
I'd like to add a #11 to your 10 WAR:

#11 - Special Teams

This is one aspect of the draft many are not giving the Broncos FO enough credit for. Most of the picks will instantly upgrade the ST, especially at covering punts and kicks.

Over the last couple of years the starting field position of the Broncos has been among the worst in the NFL, coupled with the opponents getting some of the best starting position. Any help in this area will be a HUGE improvement!! :salute:

Hawgdriver
05-08-2009, 03:00 PM
I'd like to add a #11 to your 10 WAR:

#11 - Special Teams

This is one aspect of the draft many are not giving the Broncos FO enough credit for. Most of the picks will instantly upgrade the ST, especially at covering punts and kicks.

Over the last couple of years the starting field position of the Broncos has been among the worst in the NFL, coupled with the opponents getting some of the best starting position. Any help in this area will be a HUGE improvement!! :salute:

A lot of coaches say that special teams accounts for 1/7th of the game. That's about 2 games over the course of a season. We might pick up a win if we can go from awful to average.

OrangeHoof
05-08-2009, 03:20 PM
Possibly/probably up to 8 new starters on D - Last year 1, maybe 2 players that really could be considered legit star talent - Champ, and DJ (some would argue DJ, but I think he's star talent)

And what "legit star talent" did we replace them with? Dawkins and ????


Possibly 3 new starters on O - Including 2 pro-bowl talen tackles, very good interior linemen, 2 very good (I would argue star talent) at WR, 2 very good TE's, plus Hillis who I think is very good at both FB and HB.

But two of those new starters are the most critical positions on the offense - the guy who runs with the ball and the guy who throws the ball. What if Orton just doesn't have the athleticism to run this new offense well or if Moreno turns into a fumbler or is a liability in blitz pickup? How great are the receivers and o-linemen then if your two principle ball-handlers misfire?

Ask the Vikings how far you get if you have a great offensive lineup but a marginal QB. Ask the Saints how far you get if you have great offensive lineup but a marginal running game.

Can I count you then as unconcerned?

GEM
05-08-2009, 04:27 PM
We will have the worst d-line in football.

TRUTH

No reason for you to even watch this season. That crystal ball of yours is pretty fancy.

Lonestar
05-08-2009, 04:29 PM
And what "legit star talent" did we replace them with? Dawkins and ????



But two of those new starters are the most critical positions on the offense - the guy who runs with the ball and the guy who throws the ball. What if Orton just doesn't have the athleticism to run this new offense well or if Moreno turns into a fumbler or is a liability in blitz pickup? How great are the receivers and o-linemen then if your two principle ball-handlers misfire?

Ask the Vikings how far you get if you have a great offensive lineup but a marginal QB. Ask the Saints how far you get if you have great offensive lineup but a marginal running game.

Can I count you then as unconcerned?

let see before Moreno we had a bunch of almost has beens, a never was and a legit RB with a torn hamstring.. so have we addressed this area of concern Maybe.. but it seems to be taken care of..

AS far as defense is concerned until the whistle blows there will be lots of Questions.. until then worrying a bout it does not accomplish anything..

Pissing and moaning about it does even less.

I would guess your in the concerned side of the fence instead of the watch and see? :laugh:

GEM
05-08-2009, 04:34 PM
SO why dont you answer the question with something other than a question.

Do YOU think they are smart enough to handle this sort of Defense?

We don't have a past to make that decision. That wasn't how you placed your arguement to your question. You based it on last year. Nothing from last year is the same on this D.

To answer the question, yes I think we have some time tested FA's that will lead our rookies and our younger players.

T.K.O.
05-08-2009, 04:38 PM
And what "legit star talent" did we replace them with? Dawkins and ????



But two of those new starters are the most critical positions on the offense - the guy who runs with the ball and the guy who throws the ball. What if Orton just doesn't have the athleticism to run this new offense well or if Moreno turns into a fumbler or is a liability in blitz pickup? How great are the receivers and o-linemen then if your two principle ball-handlers misfire?



Can I count you then as unconcerned?

it appears we have upgraded "the guy who runs the ball" and we already had our share of fumblers so that would be nothing new,as for whether or not orton cvan run the new system,the same could be said about cutler so thats a mute point.
anyway i guess you could look at just about anything negativly if you wanted to?people have been known to ruin their lives when they win the lottery,but the tickets keep selling

G_Money
05-08-2009, 04:57 PM
And what "legit star talent" did we replace them with? Dawkins and ????



But two of those new starters are the most critical positions on the offense - the guy who runs with the ball and the guy who throws the ball. What if Orton just doesn't have the athleticism to run this new offense well or if Moreno turns into a fumbler or is a liability in blitz pickup? How great are the receivers and o-linemen then if your two principle ball-handlers misfire?

Ask the Vikings how far you get if you have a great offensive lineup but a marginal QB. Ask the Saints how far you get if you have great offensive lineup but a marginal running game.

Can I count you then as unconcerned?

Minor ramblings:

When we hired Slowik to run the D, I spent a while being angry that we couldn't get a real DC to replace Bates.

Then I documented what Slowik had done in the past.

Then I made some optimistic posts about what would have to change for it to be successful here and let it go.

And then when Slowik proved he had no intention of following through on any of those things a lobotomy patient with dementia and rabies could call a better defense, I loaded my shotgun up and cut him down with both barrels.

I'm taking the same approach to this year with McDaniels.

Do I think he's made mistakes? Yes.

But I like all the defensive coaches. We will find out shortly IMO whether we have a ridiculous talent shortage still or not, and whether better coaches can get mediocre talent to not suck as few Ds in the league can suck, like we did last year with what I assumed before the season was mediocre-but-not-devastatingly-poor talent.

Nolan could not fix the D in San Fran. He didn't dedicate enough draftpicks to it, probably, with all the problems he had on O, and so wound up bad on both sides of the ball. But I still feel he's a DC who can get out of his talent what is there. He won't make them better than they are...but he won't make them worse either, as Slowik did.

That alone is a reason for a decent amount of optimism about the future.

I'm still pegging us for a 6-10 season. But if it's a 6-10, 7-9 season with us figuring out how to play together and excel in our new schemes, Orton defying logic and my prediction and being not just acceptable but GOOD for McDaniels's offense, the running game becoming a monster as the OL gets used to a hybrid NE/Denver scheme, draftpicks blossom, defense "gels"...

Yeah, I'm cool with that. If we have a fighting shot in 2010 with a team no longer soft on either side of the ball, I'll take an up-and-down 2009 with a tough schedule and some growing pains. Taking over a mediocre Carroll team, Belichick went 5-11 in his first season with the Pats as he separated the wheat from the chaff. That's not the end of the world.

It takes a while to install a new regime.

If McDaniels proves he has no idea how to motivate and rally the troops, well...Nolan can't do it either - ask San Fran. If we start losing and infighting breaks out and Orton tanks and we get into a QB controversy...

Then those of us who were concerned about McDaniels and his leadership skills will probably gripe. Since his power grab over the Goodmans and his girlfight with Cutler are already two strikes against his ability to work with others. At this point, without seeing his product on the field, he looks like a power hungry Mangini-style offshoot of Belichick's not-exactly-stellar coaching tree. But as long as his way works, then "my way or the highway" is a valid philosophy.

As long as it works. I'm on record as a doubter, but in the end, I want to be wrong and will be rooting for my opinion to be wrong.

Facts are coming. I hope for them to be good, winning facts. :D

Go Broncos.

~G

powderaddict
05-08-2009, 05:29 PM
And what "legit star talent" did we replace them with? Dawkins and ????



But two of those new starters are the most critical positions on the offense - the guy who runs with the ball and the guy who throws the ball. What if Orton just doesn't have the athleticism to run this new offense well or if Moreno turns into a fumbler or is a liability in blitz pickup? How great are the receivers and o-linemen then if your two principle ball-handlers misfire?

Ask the Vikings how far you get if you have a great offensive lineup but a marginal QB. Ask the Saints how far you get if you have great offensive lineup but a marginal running game.

Can I count you then as unconcerned?

My point was why it's reasonable to look at performance in areas of the offense in 2008 and have a baseline when setting expectations, where as there was much more turnover on defense, so it's hard to have that same baseline.

WARHORSE
05-09-2009, 02:25 AM
And what "legit star talent" did we replace them with? Dawkins and ????

You dont need star talent in this defense. Just guys who know their jobs in all situations. Besides, these guys can tackle. That already makes them stars in my eyes. Regardless of scheme, I wont have to look at three Broncos whiffing on the same play anymore.

But two of those new starters are the most critical positions on the offense - the guy who runs with the ball and the guy who throws the ball. What if Orton just doesn't have the athleticism to run this new offense well or if Moreno turns into a fumbler or is a liability in blitz pickup? How great are the receivers and o-linemen then if your two principle ball-handlers misfire?

Your information on the Broncos and the offense is off. Number one, Tom Brady is about as athletic as Uncle Rico. You dont have to be athletic, you have to be smart. Moreno is not a fumbler, and one of the reasons we got him is he knows how to pick up blitz packages. Orton can get the ball to the playmakers...........We dont ask for more.

Ask the Vikings how far you get if you have a great offensive lineup but a marginal QB. Ask the Saints how far you get if you have great offensive lineup but a marginal running game.

Ask Jake Plummer what the difference is between a good QB/Offensive coach and a knucklehead. I simply cant compare the Vikings offense to the system being implemented here by McMuffin.

Can I count you then as unconcerned?



Yes. Im unconcerned. You can count me in that group........:coffee:


I'll be concerned later.

Dirk
05-09-2009, 06:33 AM
No reason for you to even watch this season. That crystal ball of yours is pretty fancy.


You are my hero poster! straight to the point. :lol::salute:

Den21vsBal19
05-09-2009, 06:45 AM
You are my hero poster! straight to the point. :lol::salute:
That's GEM.............................no messing :lol:

Lonestar
05-09-2009, 12:58 PM
Yes. Im unconcerned. You can count me in that group........:coffee:


I'll be concerned later.

in your original post which was very good , you made comment about depth on the OLINE.. and granted we have Bodies there, we have almost NO experience there..

I also think that Hamilton is a weak link in the group while some can get away with playing at less than 300 perhaps at center but he needs to beef up IMO.. I saw many times over the past couple of years him on roller skates with a DT pushing him into the QB's space.. and while I think he only allowed a a couple of sacks he did little to quell the QB's anxiety of impending doom..

lets hope that new combined scheme will work for him..

horsepig
05-09-2009, 09:33 PM
Exactly right. One of the most common mistakes I have seen is judging a team
from its previous year's performance. Doormats have become strong teams
within a year (Miami), and Super Bowl teams have taken a dump amazingly
fast (Seattle).

This Broncos team has a host of new faces, and even some of the returning
ones will be playing in new positions. So how do we know what they're going
to do, when even McDaniels said he doesn't yet know? One thing for sure: we
don't know from last year . . .

-----
My point exactly. Tough schedule, are you kidding me? Last years 11-5 team might only win 6 this year. You play who they line you up against. Are we afraid of the Patsies? How about the Steelers, I bet their fans look at the schedule and say, "Oh, crap the fooking Broncos again!".

nevcraw
05-09-2009, 09:56 PM
My point exactly. Tough schedule, are you kidding me? Last years 11-5 team might only win 6 this year. You play who they line you up against. Are we afraid of the Patsies? How about the Steelers, I bet their fans look at the schedule and say, "Oh, crap the fooking Broncos again!".

given the current transition i'm not sure anyone is worried.. hopefully they and we will be in for a big surprise..

Lonestar
05-10-2009, 02:37 AM
given the current transition i'm not sure anyone is worried.. hopefully they and we will be in for a big surprise..

hopefully a few of them will be looking past us and we can surprise them..

WARHORSE
05-10-2009, 04:20 AM
in your original post which was very good , you made comment about depth on the OLINE.. and granted we have Bodies there, we have almost NO experience there..

I also think that Hamilton is a weak link in the group while some can get away with playing at less than 300 perhaps at center but he needs to beef up IMO.. I saw many times over the past couple of years him on roller skates with a DT pushing him into the QB's space.. and while I think he only allowed a a couple of sacks he did little to quell the QB's anxiety of impending doom..

lets hope that new combined scheme will work for him..


I agree on Hamilton and wouldnt be surprised if he got replaced. If McDaniels is a believer in 'play the best five' along the Oline, Im hoping Polumbus gets in there. Almost all the Olinemen who ride the pine are bigger than Hamilton, and both Olsen and Schleuter are touted for their smarts. Schleuter isnt one of the bigger guys though, and fits the mold of Denver centers.

If Hamilton ends up on our depth chart, which I think he will eventually this season, probably before the first regular season game, then the depth will be good.

I believe in the guys who are mainstays along the Oline from last year because they outlasted some guards who have started in this league.

Also, as I mentioned, I believe Polumbus is starting material, even at tackle.