Manny Ramirez Suspended for 50 Games

[Buff]

:laugh:

Smooth $25 million per year investment. Hopefully this guy finally has his come-uppance. It's long overdue.


The Los Angeles Times is reporting that Manny Ramirez has tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs and will be suspended 50 games starting today.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12316611

[MOtorboat]

Whoops...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907


Manny to serve 50-game suspension

Major League Baseball announced Thursday that Los Angeles Dodgers outfielder Manny Ramirez has been suspended for 50 games for violating its drug policy.

The commissioner's office didn't announce the specific violation by Ramirez, but in a statement Thursday provided by Major League Baseball, Ramirez attributed the violation to medication he had been prescribed by a doctor.

"Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me," Ramirez said. "Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now.

"I do want to say one other thing; I've taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons. I want to apologize to [Dodgers owner Frank] McCourt, Mrs. McCourt, [manager Joe] Torre, my teammates, the Dodger organization, and to the Dodger fans. LA is a special place to me and I know everybody is disappointed. So am I. I'm sorry about this whole situation."

After consultation with the Players' Association and his personal representatives, Ramirez waived his right to challenge the suspension. He will lose about one-third of his $25 million salary.

Ramirez's test result was first reported by the Los Angeles Times.

Triple-A outfielder Xavier Paul has been told by the Dodgers that he will be promoted later today, according to The Times. Ramirez would be eligible to return to the Dodgers' lineup for their July 3 game against San Diego.

In his first full season as a Dodger, Ramirez is batting .348 with six home runs and 20 RBIs. Los Angeles has bolted to a 21-8 record -- best in the majors -- and a 13-0 record at home that set the modern major league record for home winning streak to start a season.

The report of a Ramirez positive test is the second to rock the sport in three months. In February, New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez admitted that he used steroids from 2001-2003 while with the Texas Rangers.

[Northman]

Not that it matters for me but Baseball is pretty much dead anyway.

[BroncoWave]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

And people were making fun of the Sox for trading him last season! We dodged a bullet on that one!

[Nomad]

Not that it matters for me but Baseball is pretty much dead anyway.

True! Since the strike the only times I really was excited about baseball was when Sosa and McGuire were in their HR competition that one year and when the Mariners played lights out in 01.

[In-com-plete]

A.) Manny signed a 2 year $45 million dollar deal. 45/2 = 22.5.
B.) All the reports are saying he took a PED, but it wasn't a steroid.
C.) This isn't funny. Unless you're not a baseball fan at all.
D.) The Dodgers will still win the west . . . easily.

[Buff]

A.) Manny signed a 2 year $45 million dollar deal. 45/2 = 22.5.
B.) All the reports are saying he took a PED, but it wasn't a steroid.
C.) This isn't funny. Unless you're not a baseball fan at all.
D.) The Dodgers will still win the west . . . easily.

Ok, I'll give you A and D... But everyone always tries to minimize their guilt, so I have a hard time believing players when they plead ignorance, or when they try to act like what they took was a supplement that they thought was harmless... And the west sucks outside of LA, so I agree they will win easily.

As for C.) The sport already has a blackeye, this isn't going to tip the scales one way or the other... So as a baseball fan who hates how Manny is the ultimate "me-player" and someone who hates the Dodgers because they always kill us... I'm sorry, but I find this funny.

[Flatinum]

Manny being Manny.

[In-com-plete]

Ok, I'll give you A and D... But everyone always tries to minimize their guilt, so I have a hard time believing players when they plead ignorance, or when they try to act like what they took was a supplement that they thought was harmless... And the west sucks outside of LA, so I agree they will win easily.

As for C.) The sport already has a blackeye, this isn't going to tip the scales one way or the other... So as a baseball fan who hates how Manny is the ultimate "me-player" and someone who hates the Dodgers because they always kill us... I'm sorry, but I find this funny.

I honestly don't think anyone (even Manny) is that freaking stupid to use roids at stage in the game. With all the tests and the talk about how there's no HOF for anyone that's taken them, it's just freaking retarted to take them now. Especially when you've already made it, you're set, and you just got your 2 year 45 million dollar contract.

And I just want everyone to know that PEDs aren't always roids. They can be roids, but they can also be hydroxicut or ripped fuel or many many other things. Steroids are a PED. But PEDs aren't always steroids.

So now, when the Dodgers play all their away games after Manny comes back, every moron fan is going to start chanting "STEROIDS! STEROIDS!" when Manny comes to the plate. Never mind the fact that he didn't even get busted for roids. But that's the perception.

The game has a black eye. It'll have one for a long time. But this is just another time the whole talk gets brought up. That damn black eye resurfaced. It's not a black eye, it's herpes! But every freaking time someone (especially a superstar) gets their name in the press with a PED or steroids before or after it, the PED talk just resurfaces. It's like you're resetting the clock. We can't go 2 freaking months without this same GD talk about how MLB is tarnished forever. And that's why it's not funny if you're a baseball fan.

I'm not an A-Rod fan and I hate the Yankees. But I never laughed or said it was funny when it came out that A-Rod tested positive for roids. Never said "Hah, that's what the Yankees get for trying to buy another championship". Because, even though everyone and their brother knows major league players used roids, it was brand new name to the list. A high profile name that little Johhny will look at one day and say "Hey, A-Rod did it and he's one of the greatest players ever".

That's bad news man. Just like this story.

[gnomeflinger]

I am a baseball fan, and it IS funny. It isn't like he didn't know what he was doing. Hello! How many other players have gotten in trouble for that? Idiot.

[In-com-plete]

I am a baseball fan, and it IS funny. It isn't like he didn't know what he was doing. Hello! How many other players have gotten in trouble for that? Idiot.

See Buff. This is one of my points. To most people, PED = Steroids. They see Manny is suspended 50 games. They see PEDs. And they're like . . . . "What an idiot".

[gnomeflinger]

See Buff. This is one of my points. To most people, PED = Steroids. They see Manny is suspended 50 games. They see PEDs. And they're like . . . . "What an idiot".

And what point is this? It doesn't matter if it's steroids or another type of "PED." They are signed and paid for to play on their natural abilities, not artificially enhanced abilities. He's an idiot if he thought he could do this and not get caught.

[Devilspawn]

LOS ANGELES – A source close to Manny Ramirez(notes) said Thursday that the illegal substance for which the Los Angeles Dodgers slugger tested positive was not “an agent customarily used for performance enhancing.”

At least not on the baseball diamond. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the substance is supposed to boost sex drive. It is not Viagra, but a substance that treats the cause rather providing a temporary boost in sexual performance, the source said.

Ramirez tested positive for the substance during spring training, then was administered a second test more recently, and it also was positive. Major League Baseball notified Ramirez of the second positive test after Wednesday night’s Dodgers victory over the Washington Nationals. Ramirez admitted to having taken the substance and declined to appeal. His 50-game suspension begins today.

“The substance is not a steroid and it is not human-growth hormone,” the source said.

Ramirez, the source said, acquired the substance through a prescription from a doctor in Miami for his medical condition. The source intimated that Ramirez might bring legal action against the physician.

Ramirez released the following statement Thursday morning: “Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was okay to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.

The Dodgers, who have won a Major League record 13 consecutive home games to start the season, will be without Ramirez until July 3. Outfielder Xavier Paul was promoted from triple-A to take Ramirez’s place on the roster. The suspension will cost Ramirez close to $8 million in lost wages.

Drugs or hormones that increase testosterone production often show up on banned lists.

“Testosterone and similar drugs are effective for erectile dysfunction in that they jazz up your sex drive,” said Charles Yesalis, a professor at Penn State who has testified before Congress on issues of performance-enhancing drugs. “But far more clinicians accept that affect with Viagra and Cialis. It’s hard for me to understand if it was erectile dysfunction why they would use [something else].”

How can someone who hits all those homers not make it to first base? :lol:

[OB]

If he was still on the Red Sux i would lmao :D

What other kinds of substances are considered PED's if they arent steroids - things like ephedra?

And shouldnt a doctor who treats pro athletes be aware of what drugs would effect a piss test??????????? I would be awfully pissed at the doc

And why isnt he fighting it? If it was a legit mistake, shouldnt that count for something?

[Devilspawn]

If he was still on the Red Sux i would lmao :D

What other kinds of substances are considered PED's if they arent steriods - thinks like ephedra?

And shouldnt a doctor who treats pro athletes be aware of what drugs would effect a piss test??????????? I would be awfully pissed at the doc

And why isnt he fighting it? If it was a legit mistake, shouldnt that count for something?
He shouldn't fight it. It's still a banned substance. He just can't take it to court. Victory would be too hard.

Of course if it's hard for up to 7 hours, he should consult a physician. :lol:

[EMB6903]

ya Manny got screwed I think... I dont know what he took but from what I hear its not sterioids, and it didnt help him get bigger,stronger, faster.... regardless this is all on Manny, a Pro Athlete should be very cautious over what type of supplements/medications hes putting in his body.

50 games though? thats a bit too much if you ask me.

[gnomeflinger]

Pass the crow, please.

You are right, In-com-plete, I did assume it was steroids. It's just been the flavor of the week for baseball players these past several years. It's easy to assume the trend won't end.

But still, rules are rules. Even if it was Hydroxycut or something stupid like that, do we know if there is or isn't anything in those PED;s that have effects like steroids? For example, Kava Kava is a natural herb remedy for stress and anxiety, but it produces results similar to benzodiazepines like Xanax or Ativan. If you get pulled over and have benzos in your system, you'll get arrested for DUI. There is no street test for Kava, yet you can still get pulled over for acting DUI. You just won't go to jail for it.

PED's in sports is cheating, even if it's legalized cheating. He's an idiot if he thought he could get away with it. If he honestly did not know that whatever he was taking would fine him 50 games, then the MLB will probably look at it further and reduce his suspension.

[Nomad]

:tsk:Ramirez even gets his own 30 minutes of a Sportscenter Special instead of College Football Live!

[In-com-plete]

A friend of mine sent me this article (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907) about an hour ago.

At the end of it:


In St. Louis, a clubhouse attendant stuck his head into manager Tony La Russa's office and said "Manny Ramirez, 50 games, steroids."

La Russa's reaction: "You're kidding me."

See, that's what pisses me off. Everyone sees this shit and just assumes it's roids. But it's not their fault. It's not your fault gnomeflinger. We've all been brainwashed to think PEDs=Roids. And you can thank the media for that. They want everyone to think it's roids because it's a bigger story.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090507&content_id=4603850&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

LOS ANGELES -- Major League Baseball suspended Dodgers outfielder Manny Ramirez for 50 games on Thursday for use of a performance-enhancing drug.

Major League Baseball made an official announcement shortly after noon ET.

Ramirez, in a statement released by the Major League Baseball Players Association, attributed the suspension to his use of a doctor-prescribed medication and waived his right to challenge the discipline.

"Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I've taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.

"I want to apologize to Mr. McCourt, Mrs. McCourt, Mr. Torre, my teammates, the Dodger organization, and to the Dodger fans. LA is a special place to me and I know everybody is disappointed. So am I. I'm sorry about this whole situation."

According to ESPN, which cited two sources, the drug used by Ramirez was human chorionic gonadatropin (HCG), a women's fertility drug. The drug is typically taken by steroid users when they come off a steroid cycle in order to restart their body's natural production of testosterone, according to the report.

Ramirez, who turns 37 on May 30, will begin the suspension with Thursday night's Dodgers-Nationals game. He would be eligible to return around July 3, depending on rainouts.

Ramirez -- a 12-time All-Star who immediately became the face of the Dodgers franchise upon his acquisition last summer -- is the biggest name player to be issued a 50-game suspension under the MLB's more stringent drug policy that was adopted in 2006.

According to the drug policy, a player receives a 50-game suspension for a first positive drug test, a 100-game suspension for a second positive test and a lifetime ban for a third positive test.

All suspensions are without pay, so the suspension will cost Ramirez, who re-signed with the Dodgers as a free agent on a two-year contract that was to pay him $25 million this season, roughly $7.7 million.

Ramirez has been a key component in leading the Dodgers to the best record in baseball this year. In 27 games, he is batting .348 with six home runs and 20 RBIs. He is among league leaders in slugging and on-base percentage and has become the biggest drawing card the Dodgers have had since Fernando Valenzuela, even recently having a portion of the left-field box seats rechristened "Mannywood."

Wednesday night, Ramirez went 1-for-3 with a two-run double as the Dodgers set a modern-day record with their 13th consecutive home win to open a season.

Juan Pierre would be the immediate replacement for Ramirez in left field, while the Dodgers are expected to promote rookie Xavier Paul from Triple-A Albuqueruque to replace Ramirez on the active roster.

Ken Gurnick is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[OrangeHoof]

Manny being Manny.

Manny being Barry.

[In-com-plete]

Manny being Barry.

Yeah, because Manny took steroids right?

[Nomad]

I wouldn't admit knowingly using a women's fertility drug either:lol:. He's wrong and he knows it that's why he won't appeal. :ohwell: He doesn't give a crap because he's going to get paid millions of dollars anyway!

[Buff]

A friend of mine sent me this article (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907) about an hour ago.

At the end of it:



See, that's what pisses me off. Everyone sees this shit and just assumes it's roids. But it's not their fault. It's not your fault gnomeflinger. We've all been brainwashed to think PEDs=Roids. And you can thank the media for that. They want everyone to think it's roids because it's a bigger story.

Dude, you know I love you... But you're arguing semantics here. A banned performance enhancer is a banned performance enhancer, regardless of whether or not they are technically steroids.

This guy is getting paid more than $20 million per year and he can't keep tabs on what he is putting into his body? If there is any questions whatsoever as to whether something may contain a banned substance, then he shouldn't take it... I just don't buy the ignorance plea. It's total BS.

Even if I take him at his word and believe he honestly didn't mean to take a PED, he's still a dumbass for letting it happen.

[MOtorboat]

50 games though? thats a bit too much if you ask me.

Mandatory, according to the MLB Drug Policy. Second one is 100 I believe and third is your done for two years.

I don't believe there is any chance that its shortened either.

[Buff]

In-Com-Plete, I just read that article you posted, and if everything he is said is 100% true, then yeah, I think people should make a distinction between a violation like that and one of someone who is on the juice...

However, I still think he's dumb for letting it happen (regardless of the advice he got.) And I also have a hard time believing anyone in MLB and it wouldn't surprise me if this is some elaborate cover-up on his part.

[MOtorboat]

Just a note...Manny has been playing since 1993...testing began like five years ago...so...

But, there's a pretty good argument that Ramirez is telling the truth:

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards
1993 21 CLE AL 22 55 53 5 9 1 0 2 5 0 0 2 8 .170 .200 .302 .502 33 16 3 0 0 0 0 D/9
1994 22 CLE AL 91 336 290 51 78 22 0 17 60 4 2 42 72 .269 .357 .521 .878 124 151 6 0 0 4 4 *9/D RoY-2
1995 23 CLE AL 137 571 484 85 149 26 1 31 107 6 6 75 112 .308 .402 .558 .960 147 270 13 5 2 5 6 *9/D AS,MVP-12,SS
1996 24 CLE AL 152 647 550 94 170 45 3 33 112 8 5 85 104 .309 .399 .582 .981 146 320 18 3 0 9 8 *9/D
1997 25 CLE AL 150 651 561 99 184 40 0 26 88 2 3 79 115 .328 .415 .538 .953 144 302 19 7 0 4 5 *9/D
1998 26 CLE AL 150 663 571 108 168 35 2 45 145 5 3 76 121 .294 .377 .599 .976 146 342 18 6 0 10 6 *9/D AS,MVP-6
1999 27 CLE AL 147 640 522 131 174 34 3 44 165 2 4 96 131 .333 .442 .663 1.105 173 346 12 13 0 9 9 *9/D AS,MVP-3,SS
2000 28 CLE AL 118 532 439 92 154 34 2 38 122 1 1 86 117 .351 .457 .697 1.154 186 306 9 3 0 4 9 9D AS,MVP-6,SS
2001 29 BOS AL 142 620 529 93 162 33 2 41 125 0 1 81 147 .306 .405 .609 1.014 161 322 9 8 0 2 25 D7 AS,MVP-9,SS
2002 30 BOS AL 120 518 436 84 152 31 0 33 107 0 0 73 85 .349 .450 .647 1.097 184 282 13 8 0 1 14 7D/9 AS,MVP-9,SS
2003 31 BOS AL 154 679 569 117 185 36 1 37 104 3 1 97 94 .325 .427 .587 1.014 160 334 22 8 0 5 28 *7D AS,MVP-6,SS
2004 32 BOS AL 152 663 568 108 175 44 0 43 130 2 4 82 124 .308 .397 .613 1.009 152 348 17 6 0 7 15 *7D AS,MVP-3,SS
2005 33 BOS AL 152 650 554 112 162 30 1 45 144 1 0 80 119 .292 .388 .594 .982 153 329 20 10 0 6 9 *7/D AS,MVP-4,SS
2006 34 BOS AL 130 558 449 79 144 27 1 35 102 0 1 100 102 .321 .439 .619 1.058 165 278 13 1 0 8 16 *7/D AS,MVP-18,SS
2007 35 BOS AL 133 569 483 84 143 33 1 20 88 0 0 71 92 .296 .388 .493 .881 126 238 21 7 0 8 13 *7D AS
2008 36 TOT 153 654 552 102 183 36 1 37 121 3 0 87 124 .332 .430 .601 1.031 164 332 17 11 0 4 24 *7D AS,MVP-4
2008 36 BOS AL 100 425 365 66 109 22 1 20 68 1 0 52 86 .299 .398 .529 .926 136 193 12 8 0 0 8 7D
2008 36 LAD NL 53 229 187 36 74 14 0 17 53 2 0 35 38 .396 .489 .743 1.232 219 139 5 3 0 4 16 7
2009 37 LAD NL 27 120 92 22 32 9 0 6 20 0 0 26 17 .348 .492 .641 1.133 194 59 2 1 0 1 8 *7
17 Seasons 2130 9126 7702 1466 2424 516 18 533 1745 37 31 1238 1684 .315 .412 .594 1.006 156 4575 232 97 2 87 199

At age 23 he hit 31 home runs, and then averaged 36 home runs with not a lot of peaks and valleys, except for 2007...which is when the stricter policy came down...but I think there's a good argument and enough knowledge of his game to say he probably has not cheated.

This is just a dumb move by him trusting a doctor...

[BroncoWave]

Why the hell else would he take a women's fertility drug if it wasn't to what was mentioned in the article? This article makes me even more inclined to believe that he cheated.

[OrangeHoof]

Why the hell else would he take a women's fertility drug if it wasn't to what was mentioned in the article? This article makes me even more inclined to believe that he cheated.

The only explanation I've seen is that the women's fertility drug is meant to regulate hormone levels. The only reason a man would take the medicine is to stimulate hormone production. Why would a man's hormones be out of whack? Well, simply because steroids produce so much testosterone that the body's natural testosterone production regresses in response. Therefore, to "cycle off" the steroids, a male athlete could take the fertility drug in order to stimulate their own natural production again.

The fertility drug is a de facto "guilty" for steroid use, just as much as other banned masking agents are.

Do you remember when Onterrio Smith of the Vikings was caught in an airport with a kit to fake pee tests? There's no reason to carry one onto an airplane if you aren't expecting a need to fake a pee test at some point. He tried the old "it's for a cousin" excuse but he still got suspended.

Same thing here for Manny. There's only one real reason why an otherwise healthy male needs this fertility drug and it is to mask the fact that you've done the juice. He probably juiced in the offseason (or during the spring while he was holding out) and figured the fertility drug would let him pass the test.

[MOtorboat]

Like him or not, this column is brilliant, and scary...


Confronting my worst nightmare

By Bill Simmons

Dateline: May 7, 2014

My son and I have flown from California to spend the week in Boston. He is a little more than 6½ at this point. He has never set foot in Fenway Park. The time is right. He likes baseball. He likes the Red Sox. He's a little sports encyclopedia. I have brainwashed him. He is just old enough to understand the significance of his first Fenway game and, more importantly, old enough that he'll be able to remember the experience decades later.

We bring my father with us. Three generations of the Simmons family taking in a Yankees-Red Sox game for the first time. This should be a wonderful moment. A signature moment, even.

We find our $1,500 seats in the lower boxes near third base. We are sitting in Best Buy's Section 61, which is right between Bob's Discount Furniture's Section 60 and Costco's Section 62. Every section has a sponsor now. The Green Monster is now called "The Pepsi Green Monster" and has a big Pepsi can painted on it. Ted Williams' special seat in right field is now sponsored by Muscle Milk. Even home plate is sponsored by Dunkin' Donuts. Has the logo on it and everything. That's just the way sports work now.

We settle into our seats. I point toward the championship banners over the first-base side. They go in order: 1903, 1904, 1912, 1915, 1916, 1918, 2004, 2007. Ever since Boston won the World Series 10 years ago, I always imagined pointing to that 2004 banner and telling my little boy, "That's the team that changed everything."

So that's what I do. I point at the banner and tell him, "That's the team that changed everything."

"Isn't that the team that cheated?" he asks.

My father and I glance at each other. A few beats pass.

"Well, technically, no," I stammer. "I mean ..."

"I thought they had a whole bunch of steroids guys on that team," he says.

"Well, there have been some accusations, and yeah, some of the power numbers were a little suspicious, but ..."

"I'd do it again!" my dad yells happily.

"Dad!"

I shake my head at him. He shrugs. The thing is, he WOULD do it again. He wanted to see the Red Sox win the World Series in his lifetime. He worried about it constantly. So did I. So did every Red Sox fan. We worried about living a full life, then dying, without ever seeing them win. All of us knew people who fit in that category. None of us wanted to end up in there.

All of us would have made a deal with the devil at the time. And maybe we did. We just didn't know it.

"Nothing was ever really proved," I tell my son, trying to keep up the good fight.

He ignores me and starts rattling through our 2004 lineup with creepy precision. He points out Nomar Garciaparra's remarkable 1999 and 2000 seasons, his subsequent tendon injuries and how his career played out so blandly afterward for reasons that remain unclear. My dad points out the Sox traded Nomar midway through the 2004 season. Technically, that debate shouldn't even matter. Score one for Dad.

"But what about Trot Nixon and Bill Mueller?" my son says. "They missed a bunch of games every year with injuries, put on weight when they were skinny guys, peaked quickly and were never seen again. Same for Mark Bellhorn, right? That's suspicious."

"Well," I say, "their names never came up in anything, so that's not really fair ..."

"And Kevin Millar, he had a few big homer years, then his power numbers went way down once the testing started."

"That's true, but it doesn't prove anything ..."

"And Johnny Damon, he got bigger and started hitting for more power even though he was a singles hitter, right?"

"Well ..."

"And what about Big Papi?" he wonders. "Played for Minnesota, didn't hit for power, came to the Red Sox, turned into the best slugger in the league, and as soon as they cracked down on steroids, he stopped hitting homers again. And he was friends with all the other Dominican players who were linked to performance-enhancing drugs. What about him?"

Silence. Nobody says anything.

Finally, my dad steps in: "He had an inside-outside swing at Minnesota, when he came to Boston, we encouraged him to pull the ball, so ..."

"Come on, Gramps!" my son says. "That's dumb, and you know it."

We glance out to the field. Big Papi is one of Boston's coaches now. After he hit 54 homers in 2006, his career was over within four years. Now he's just a fat guy in his early 40s coaching first base. You would never guess this is the same guy who carried us in 2004, the guy who fueled the Greatest Comeback Ever, the guy who helped convince an entire fan base that, yes, we could believe.

"And what about Manny?" my son asks. "He tested positive for performance enhancers in 2009 with the Dodgers. How do you know he wasn't using that whole time?"

"Well, we don't," I say. "But that was kind of a fluke -- he had a doctor in Florida who prescribed him a banned substance, and ..."

"Come on, Dad, I read your Red Sox book. You said that at least you knew Manny couldn't have ever used steroids because he was too dumb to figure out how to stick to a cycle. Then he tested positive. You were, like, his biggest fan. You wrote a big piece after he got traded that was so long, it took me a week to read it."

"I told him not to write that column," my dad says. "Manny needed to go. He was a selfish jerk. Your father had blinders on ..."

"Come on, that's not fair," I say. "I loved the guy. He was on the team for more than eight years. He helped us end the curse. He made our lives as Red Sox fans more fun. He was like family. I wasn't gonna dump the guy from my life after everything he did just because his agent poisoned him against the team."

"But you defended him and said he was a good guy at heart," my son says. "And then he cheated, right? So how does that make him a good guy?"

I take a deep breath.

"It doesn't make him a good guy," I say. "You don't understand what it was like to follow baseball before you were born. There was a strike in 1994, and the World Series was canceled. Everyone hated baseball. Then Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa started hitting homers, and the balls started flying out of the park, and it was so much fun that everyone looked the other way. We didn't care that these guys were practically busting out of their skin or growing second foreheads. We really didn't. All the cheating made baseball more fun to watch. We were in denial. It was weird.

"Then, Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season, and that was like the turning point. We realized that things had gone too far. We blamed him for cheating and looked the other way with dozens of other guys who might have been doing the same thing. Brady Anderson hit 50 homers in 1996; we didn't care. Bret Boone had 141 RBIs in a season; we didn't care. Big Papi went from 10 homers to 41 in four seasons; we didn't care. Roger Clemens was washed up, but suddenly he could throw 98 miles per hour and win Cy Youngs again; we didn't care. Eric Gagne saved 84 straight games and threw 120 miles an hour; we didn't care. Good players started blowing out tendons nobody had ever heard of; we didn't care. Pitchers blew out elbow tendons and shoulder ligaments routinely; we didn't care. This was the deal. They cheated; we pretended they didn't. It's really hard to explain unless you were there."

My son tries to soak everything in. That's lot to process for a 6-year-old.

Finally ...

"So when the Red Sox won in 2004, did you know some of the guys might have been cheating?" he asks.

"At the time?" I answer. "No. Either we were in total denial, or we just didn't care."

"I'd do it again!" my dad yells happily, getting another withering glare from me.

"You have to understand," I say. "EVERYONE cheated back then. You know how I drive 80 on the highway even though all the signs say to go 55? That's how everyone thought back then -- the signs said one thing, but everyone did the other. There were so many people cheating that, competitively, you almost had to cheat to keep up with everyone else."

"So why didn't the people in charge get everyone to stop cheating?" my son asks.

"I wish I knew. The players' union didn't care, the commissioner's office didn't care, nobody cared. Until it was too late."

"So you won the World Series twice because of Manny and Papi," my son says, "but they might have been cheating the whole time, and so were some of their teammates? Dad, your whole book was about how you could die in peace because they won in 2004. If they cheated to win, does that make what happened OK?"

The question hangs in the air. And hangs. And hangs.

"I don't know," I finally answer. "I still haven't figured that part out. Again, you don't understand what it was like. Everyone was cheating, so the playing field was kind of even, as weird as that sounds. You can't imagine how depressing it was to be a Red Sox fan at the time. Things always went wrong. We hadn't won in 86 years. We were the whipping boy of the Yankees. We always expected the worst to happen, mainly because the worst always did happen. That 2004 title made life easier for everyone. We could just follow the team without all the other negative crap. Does that make sense?"

"I guess," he says, nodding. "But Manny was your favorite hitter on that team. And he tested positive later. Is he still your favorite hitter?"

"Yes and no," I say. "No, because he cheated. Yes, because whether he was cheating or not, I can't forget watching him hit baseballs on a daily basis. I just can't. You should have seen him. Perfect swing, perfect balance, perfect everything. He was a hitting savant. That's the funny thing -- he didn't NEED to cheat. The guy was put on the earth to hit.

"But he did cheat," my son says.

"He did. Yes. He did."

"So he's not your favorite player from that team now?"

"He never was; Pedro Martinez was. Manny was my favorite hitter. I loved Pedro the most."

I am dreading the next question. I am dreading it. I do not want him to ask it. I know it's coming.

"Did Pedro cheat?"

Silence.

I take a deep breath. So does my father. You can't describe in a few tidy sentences, off the cuff, what it was like to watch Pedro Martinez pitch in 1999 and 2000. To paraphrase Joe Mantegna in "Searching for Bobby Fischer," Pedro was better at pitching than you or I will ever be at anything. He had swagger. He had four A-plus pitches. He had everything. He spurred me to buy tickets from scalpers when I was broke. I would do it again. I watched Pedro Martinez pitch at his apex at Fenway Park. I get to brag about this when I'm old. He's the one guy who didn't cheat. He definitely didn't cheat. I bet anything, the man did not cheat.

Do I say this to my son? No. He wouldn't believe me.

"I looked at Pedro's numbers," my son says. "He peaked for like three years right as the steroids era was going, then he battled injuries and never did as well. Fits the profile, right?"

"Nah, I don't see it," my father says. "He was skinnier than you are. Steroids make you bulk up. Pedro was like a buck-sixty soaking wet."

"I don't see it, either," I say. "I don't think he did."

"But you don't know?" my son asks me.

"Honestly? I don't know anything anymore."

[MOtorboat]

And, the ending...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090507&sportCat=mlb


We look at the 2004 banner again. I always thought that, for the rest of my life, I would look at that banner and think only good thoughts. Now, there's a mental asterisk that won't go away. I wish I could take a pill to shake it from my brain. I see 2004 and 2007, and think of Manny and Papi first and foremost. The modern-day Ruth and Gehrig. One of the great one-two punches in sports history. Were they cheating the whole time? Was Pedro cheating, too? That 2004 banner makes me think of these things now. I wish it didn't, but it does. This makes me sad. This makes me profoundly sad.

My son can read it in my face. I am sad. He can see it.

"That's OK, Dad," he says, rubbing my shoulder. "Everyone cheated back then."

[Medford Bronco]

I hate Manny and always have that douche dumbass.

Now he has screwed up two teams I like. :mad: What an ass he his
and is dumb as a post.

[Devilspawn]

Some article mentioned that in the Steroid Era, the only two players with 500+ homeruns who haven't been caught with a positive PED test are Ken Griffey Jr. and Jim Thome. If Junior Griffey had a clean career, it's really a shame his injuries took away what could've been the true homerun king. And Thome quietly is the best power hitter the game has seen in the Steroid Era along with Griffey. Well, so far because you never know now do you.

Today, I consider Albert Pujols and Johan Santana as the two best at the plate and on the mound respectively. I don't trust anyone, so if they do get caught, let's just allow steroids in the game, be like wrestling fans and just pretend what we're seeing out there is real when we all know it's not.

[BroncoBJ]

:lol: Manny :lol:

[SoCalImport]

Damnit!!Damnit!!Damnit!!Damnit!!Damnit!!....Ramire z, you douche!

Dodgers are looking to be back on top for the first time in how long?!?

Damnit!!

[MOtorboat]

Damnit!!Damnit!!Damnit!!Damnit!!Damnit!!....Ramire z, you douche!

Dodgers are looking to be back on top for the first time in how long?!?

Damnit!!

Last year :noidea:

[SoCalImport]

Last year :noidea:

It was intended as a general statement. Not specific to this year. Or even to the NL west.
Last year was a step.
I'm talking about the dodgers on there way to being a real powerhouse in MLB, and maybe making the world series. it has been a long time.

[GEM]

Like him or not, this column is brilliant, and scary...

Thanks for posting that Mo. Pretty interesting and the innocence of children shows through. We grow up and in our society there's always an excuse to make everything ok...as long as the end result is what we want, it's ok to take the shortcuts to get it. It's sad that this kid's eyes are wide open to the problem...he's 6. The message baseball and the fans have passed to kids is that if you aren't good enough....there are ways around it...and in a lot of cases people won't blink an eye. I feel bad for kids coming up in high school sports, the pressure that if you really have the talent to do what you love, but are just below the star level, it's ok to cheat. I would imagine not a lot of them WANT to cheat, but to compete, you have to.

There was a cyclist on 950TheFan yesterday afternoon who talked about trying to compete in a steroids world without steroids. It was depressing to listen to.

[GEM]

A.) Manny signed a 2 year $45 million dollar deal. 45/2 = 22.5.
B.) All the reports are saying he took a PED, but it wasn't a steroid.
C.) This isn't funny. Unless you're not a baseball fan at all.
D.) The Dodgers will still win the west . . . easily.

The female hormone found in his testing is a masking agent for steroids.

[MOtorboat]

Thanks for posting that Mo. Pretty interesting and the innocence of children shows through. We grow up and in our society there's always an excuse to make everything ok...as long as the end result is what we want, it's ok to take the shortcuts to get it. It's sad that this kid's eyes are wide open to the problem...he's 6. The message baseball and the fans have passed to kids is that if you aren't good enough....there are ways around it...and in a lot of cases people won't blink an eye. I feel bad for kids coming up in high school sports, the pressure that if you really have the talent to do what you love, but are just below the star level, it's ok to cheat. I would imagine not a lot of them WANT to cheat, but to compete, you have to.

There was a cyclist on 950TheFan yesterday afternoon who talked about trying to compete in a steroids world without steroids. It was depressing to listen to.

It was a fictional column. He was writing it in the future...his son was a little too knowledgeable, and that was part of the schtick.

[GEM]

It was a fictional column. He was writing it in the future...his son was a little too knowledgeable, and that was part of the schtick.

But that is a conversation that could easily happen at any ball park in America today. That really wasn't the point of my post though...More getting at the point of the young kids and guys coming up in the world of sports today.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Griffey Jr., as someone mentioned above -- did it pure -- he will always be Tha King.

[MOtorboat]

But that is a conversation that could easily happen at any ball park in America today. That really wasn't the point of my post though...More getting at the point of the young kids and guys coming up in the world of sports today.

It is.

But I ask myself, do I care?

EVERYONE knew it was fishy when McGuire was doing his 70-home run season, everyone...media, fans, players...but it was just ignored, because we loved it. It was fun to watch. I'll never forget where I was for No. 64 when he broke the record. It was that type of fun. Of course, it was a good story too...I was just sitting on my couch at home here when Bonds hit 74, so that's not as good of a story, but you get the gist. I remember where I was for all of that. I remember where I was when Dante Bichette hit that Home Run in the the 13th inning in the first game at Coors Field, and Dante was probably doing something supplement-wise, but I just don't care.

The point I'm trying to make is that baseball is baseball. No steroid helped Manny Ramirez have the best swing in baseball. I heard Tim Kirkjean of ESPN talk about his balance at the plate and his batters eye. No steroid did that. No steroid made Bonds hit a home run, but they helped him to keep doing it for longer.

I just can't tell you if it really tainted the game. Up until five years ago, it wasn't even illegal in the sport. Yes, I know, they were breaking a law, but they weren't hurting anyone but themselves in the process, it was a personal choice. And it's just a game. It's entertainment.

I've continued to watch baseball through all of this, and will continue to do so. It's my favorite sport. And looking back and trying to indict these men for doing something, like the public court of opinion battle that A-Rod is fighting right now, is just preposterous. And the way the media, the FBI and the government is going after baseball alone is a travesty. They are apparently trying to kill baseball. Don't tell me football players don't take steroids. If someone looks me in the face and says that there aren't football players out there finding ways to cheat, I will flat out call them a liar.

/rant

[MOtorboat]

Griffey Jr., as someone mentioned above -- did it pure -- he will always be Tha King.

Did he?

[GEM]

It is.

But I ask myself, do I care?

EVERYONE knew it was fishy when McGuire was doing his 70-home run season, everyone...media, fans, players...but it was just ignored, because we loved it. It was fun to watch. I'll never forget where I was for No. 64 when he broke the record. It was that type of fun. Of course, it was a good story too...I was just sitting on my couch at home here when Bonds hit 74, so that's not as good of a story, but you get the gist. I remember where I was for all of that. I remember where I was when Dante Bichette hit that Home Run in the the 13th inning in the first game at Coors Field, and Dante was probably doing something supplement-wise, but I just don't care.

The point I'm trying to make is that baseball is baseball. No steroid helped Manny Ramirez have the best swing in baseball. I heard Tim Kirkjean of ESPN talk about his balance at the plate and his batters eye. No steroid did that. No steroid made Bonds hit a home run, but they helped him to keep doing it for longer.

I just can't tell you if it really tainted the game. Up until five years ago, it wasn't even illegal in the sport. Yes, I know, they were breaking a law, but they weren't hurting anyone but themselves in the process, it was a personal choice. And it's just a game. It's entertainment.

I've continued to watch baseball through all of this, and will continue to do so. It's my favorite sport. And looking back and trying to indict these men for doing something, like the public court of opinion battle that A-Rod is fighting right now, is just preposterous. And the way the media, the FBI and the government is going after baseball alone is a travesty. They are apparently trying to kill baseball. Don't tell me football players don't take steroids. If someone looks me in the face and says that there aren't football players out there finding ways to cheat, I will flat out call them a liar.

/rant

I can agree that with the ish going on in the world today, baseball is really the last place the government needs to be sticking their nose.

So what is the solution Mo....do they just lift the bans on these substances and openly tell the kids growing up to do these substances, no matter the consequences they have to deal with later in life (i.e. Lyle Alzado) or is it just too far gone to step in now? There's no way to compete fairly anymore unless you really are doing these substances.

Say you have 17 year old A and 17 year old B. Both go through high school being somewhat smaller for their age but each is a star in his sport. Scouts start keeping track of them and the knock on both is size. So player A decides to do a cycle or take a supplement and it pushes him over the concerns that are being talked about. Player B decides to ride out on talent alone. Who ends up further? By the time they hit the majors (if they do) Player A has gained the weight needed and can attempt to knock off the use and hold weight with training, etc. Player B is still what he was before....a bit bigger, but small for the majors.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Did he?

Ken and I are pals. He did!

[MOtorboat]

I can agree that with the ish going on in the world today, baseball is really the last place the government needs to be sticking their nose.

So what is the solution Mo....do they just lift the bans on these substances and openly tell the kids growing up to do these substances, no matter the consequences they have to deal with later in life (i.e. Lyle Alzado) or is it just too far gone to step in now? There's no way to compete fairly anymore unless you really are doing these substances.

Say you have 17 year old A and 17 year old B. Both go through high school being somewhat smaller for their age but each is a star in his sport. Scouts start keeping track of them and the knock on both is size. So player A decides to do a cycle or take a supplement and it pushes him over the concerns that are being talked about. Player B decides to ride out on talent alone. Who ends up further? By the time they hit the majors (if they do) Player A has gained the weight needed and can attempt to knock off the use and hold weight with training, etc. Player B is still what he was before....a bit bigger, but small for the majors.

No. It's banned now. If someone is caught, punish them. The government and the media need to quit their damn witch hunt on people who USED to do it. If they want to roast someone, it should be the owners and the league.

[CoachChaz]

I'll say it again. Take an average Joe off the street, give him steroids for 6 months and then put him in front of a 95 mph fastball. If he even makes contact, I'd be surprised.

Illegal substances dont make players more skilled...just recuperate faster. But, they pay for it in the end. 162 games is a long schedule and if it keeps my star on the field a few more games, then I'm happy.

One way or another, athletes will find something to give them a competetive edge. Do I condone legalizing anabolic steroids? Not at all. But do fans really care if players take them? not one bit. Find me a Giants fan that hated Bonds. Find a Dodgers fan that isnt looking forward to seeing Manny return after 50 games.

It has become a part of the game whether we like it or not.

[OrangeHoof]

Personally, I'm over it. It's a Viagra world out there and anyone who wants to "cheat" through chemical enhancement, there's a pill or a procedure for it. Both men and women do it. So how do we expect young athletes (the most seemingly indestructable among us) to resist the temptation to alter their body for short-term gain and ignore the long-term consequences until it bites them?

If a juiced pitcher is throwing to a juiced batter, who is cheated? Not the fan who gets psyched about 98-mph fastballs thrown to guys who hit 500 homers. Not the juicers. They took their poison willingly. The only guys cheated are the players who didn't juice and the evidence seems to grow that the pool of non-cheaters is smaller and smaller.

Heck, we have a tax cheat now running the Department of Treasury and nobody cares, certainly not our news media.

Elvis Costello one wrote "I used to be disgusted but now I try to be amused." That sums up my view on a lot of things lately.

[BroncoWave]

Personally, I'm over it. It's a Viagra world out there and anyone who wants to "cheat" through chemical enhancement, there's a pill or a procedure for it. Both men and women do it. So how do we expect young athletes (the most seemingly indestructable among us) to resist the temptation to alter their body for short-term gain and ignore the long-term consequences until it bites them?

If a juiced pitcher is throwing to a juiced batter, who is cheated? Not the fan who gets psyched about 98-mph fastballs thrown to guys who hit 500 homers. Not the juicers. They took their poison willingly. The only guys cheated are the players who didn't juice and the evidence seems to grow that the pool of non-cheaters is smaller and smaller.

Heck, we have a tax cheat now running the Department of Treasury and nobody cares, certainly not our news media.

Elvis Costello one wrote "I used to be disgusted but now I try to be amused." That sums up my view on a lot of things lately.

The guy that never made it out of the minors because he stayed clean? :noidea:

[MOtorboat]

The guy that never made it out of the minors because he stayed clean? :noidea:

I don't like this argument.

A.) There are plenty of players in the minors who were juicing and never made it.

which leads to...

B.) That makes it clear that steroids didn't make those players do what they did.

[atwater27]

I'll say it again. Take an average Joe off the street, give him steroids for 6 months and then put him in front of a 95 mph fastball. If he even makes contact, I'd be surprised.

Illegal substances dont make players more skilled...just recuperate faster. But, they pay for it in the end. 162 games is a long schedule and if it keeps my star on the field a few more games, then I'm happy.

One way or another, athletes will find something to give them a competetive edge. Do I condone legalizing anabolic steroids? Not at all. But do fans really care if players take them? not one bit. Find me a Giants fan that hated Bonds. Find a Dodgers fan that isnt looking forward to seeing Manny return after 50 games.

It has become a part of the game whether we like it or not.

It makes players stronger and if they work out properly, more toned as well. This gives them the strength to hit the ball farther when they do connect. Basic physics. Cheating should not be in any sport. If you resign yourself to it and passively support it, you should re-asses why you are even a fan of the game. And there are plenty of Giants fans who hate Bonds. Are you serious???

[Nomad]

It makes players stronger and if they work out properly, more toned as well. This gives them the strength to hit the ball farther when they do connect. Basic physics. Cheating should not be in any sport. If you resign yourself to it and passively support it, you should re-asses why you are even a fan of the game. And there are plenty of Giants fans who hate Bonds. Are you serious???


I believe Chaz understands this and that's why he condemns the use of drugs. The way I interpret what he is saying is the hand/eye coordination is a given gift to a handful of people who are able to swing and bat and hit a ball going between 85-100 mph. Steriods will not help one do this, yes it will give them the extra ump but not everyone has the skills to hit a ball moreless judge a ball coming at you and even catching a ball.


In today's world, the long ball is what puts people in the stands, as is dunks in basketball, and hard hits in football. IMO, players should be penalized by their contracts rather than just fines. Say Rameriz gets $24 mil a year for two years, but if he gets busted for any banned substance then his contract is void plus suspensions/fines and contract B comes into effect which is a $12 mil a year and if again 6 mil plus suspensions/fines and again then ban him from baseball! 3 strikes your out!! And piss test every player randomly each month and they are not told when they are tested and offenders are tested each week for the remainder of their baseball career. It's hard when cheating is excepted by many people!:whoknows:

[OrangeHoof]

Well, that's nice but you have to get the u n i o n to go along with it, which they never will. The dirty little secret as to why baseball has a steroid problem is because the MLBPA didn't want testing and the MLB owners just buried their heads in the sand about it.

You would think there would be far more reason to abuse steroids in the NFL but it seems as if you catch only about 1/10th the cheaters that are in baseball. Why? Either because the NFL/NFLPA set down much harsher guidelines for getting caught or the NFL simply isn't trying very hard to catch cheaters. Could be either one but steroid abuse is far less in the news around the NFL than it is in MLB.

Now, the sport where steroids is out of control is pro wrestling and their various spin offs. The average life span of your typical pro wrestler is in the 50s because they die off so fast from all the abuse they put their bodies through.

[MOtorboat]

I believe Chaz understands this and that's why he condemns the use of drugs. The way I interpret what he is saying is the hand/eye coordination is a given gift to a handful of people who are able to swing and bat and hit a ball going between 85-100 mph. Steriods will not help one do this, yes it will give them the extra ump but not everyone has the skills to hit a ball moreless judge a ball coming at you and even catching a ball.


In today's world, the long ball is what puts people in the stands, as is dunks in basketball, and hard hits in football. IMO, players should be penalized by their contracts rather than just fines. Say Rameriz gets $24 mil a year for two years, but if he gets busted for any banned substance then his contract is void plus suspensions/fines and contract B comes into effect which is a $12 mil a year and if again 6 mil plus suspensions/fines and again then ban him from baseball! 3 strikes your out!! And piss test every player randomly each month and they are not told when they are tested and offenders are tested each week for the remainder of their baseball career. It's hard when cheating is excepted by many people!:whoknows:


Well, that's nice but you have to get the u n i o n to go along with it, which they never will. The dirty little secret as to why baseball has a steroid problem is because the MLBPA didn't want testing and the MLB owners just buried their heads in the sand about it.

You would think there would be far more reason to abuse steroids in the NFL but it seems as if you catch only about 1/10th the cheaters that are in baseball. Why? Either because the NFL/NFLPA set down much harsher guidelines for getting caught or the NFL simply isn't trying very hard to catch cheaters. Could be either one but steroid abuse is far less in the news around the NFL than it is in MLB.

Now, the sport where steroids is out of control is pro wrestling and their various spin offs. The average life span of your typical pro wrestler is in the 50s because they die off so fast from all the abuse they put their bodies through.

Ramirez is suspended WITHOUT pay...so he is losing plenty of his money because of this already.