Ryan McBean: We Overlooking Him?

[getlynched47]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12286290


Peterson and Ryan McBean have been getting most of the first-team reps on the defensive line.

He's 6'5, 290 lbs. and was drafted by the Steelers in the 4th round three years ago.

He spent a lot of time learning under the vaunted Steelers defense on the practice squad.....and is a true 5 technique Defensive End.

Surprise starter? I tend to think so......

I don't think it would be wise to bulk up Ayers to 280+, because he'll lose some of his explosiveness.

Line him up at WOLB, with Dumervil at SOLB and have both of them at Defensive End in passing situations.

This scheme seems to heavily favor ENORMOUS Outer linebackers...so Boss Bailey is not an option. Proof? Crowder, Moss, Dumervil, and Darrell Reid are fighting to grab both outer linebacker positions.

Keep Ayers at OLB and pass rushing DE, and let's see if Ryan McBean explodes with this opportunity.

McBean, Fields, and Peterson........not household names, but I'm willing to bet that they can get the job done.

[MOtorboat]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12286290



He's 6'5, 290 lbs. and was drafted by the Steelers in the 4th round three years ago.

He spent a lot of time learning under the vaunted Steelers defense on the practice squad.....and is a true 5 technique Defensive End.

Surprise starter? I tend to think so......

I don't think it would be wise to bulk up Ayers to 280+, because he'll lose some of his explosiveness.

Line him up at WOLB, with Dumervil at SOLB and have both of them at Defensive End in passing situations.

This scheme seems to heavily favor ENORMOUS Outer linebackers...so Boss Bailey is not an option. Proof? Crowder, Moss, Dumervil, and Darrell Reid are fighting to grab both outer linebacker positions.

Keep Ayers at OLB and pass rushing DE, and let's see if Ryan McBean explodes with this opportunity.

McBean, Fields, and Peterson........not household names, but I'm willing to bet that they can get the job done.

This is just going to be a year where we have a lot of bodies rotating in and out and I hope McBean can be one of them. I have my doubts about Fields at DT, and hope this Baker kid is a possible fill in. I like Peterson at one end though, get Dumervil, Moss and Ayers on their feet and making plays.

[getlynched47]

This is just going to be a year where we have a lot of bodies rotating in and out and I hope McBean can be one of them. I have my doubts about Fields at DT, and hope this Baker kid is a possible fill in. I like Peterson at one end though, get Dumervil, Moss and Ayers on their feet and making plays.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not settled with Fields as our Nose Tackle........but he can't be any worse than Dewayne Robertson can he? :noidea:

I think Fields can be solid....not great........but do his job and occupy blockers.

I agree, stand up Dumervil, Moss, and Ayers when in the 3-4 and let them rush with one-on-one matchups with the tackles......and then put them at DE in passing situations with the faster linebackers coming in (Woodyard, Boss Bailey).

But the only thing is.....what rotation on the line? We don't have much depth at Nose Tackle (Marcus Thomas and Baker?) and the only 3-4 DE's we have are Peterson, Askew, and McBean.

[MOtorboat]

I still want to see Thomas at the end in the 3-4, and then shifted in a little when Ayers/Dumervil/Moss put their hand on the ground. I think that would be a five technique end to a three technique tackle, type shift, but I think he's the type of player that could play that position for the Broncos. Much like Peterson.

[honz]

Of course he is going to be a starter...Ryan McBean.

Seriously though, when did we sign this guy? I don't remember ever hearing his name until I read that DP article.

[MOtorboat]

Of course he is going to be a starter...Ryan McBean.

Seriously though, when did we sign this guy? I don't remember ever hearing his name until I read that DP article.

Practice Squad last year, IIRC.

[shank]

But the only thing is.....what rotation on the line? We don't have much depth at Nose Tackle (Marcus Thomas and Baker?) and the only 3-4 DE's we have are Peterson, Askew, and McBean.

how many guys are you wanting to rotate? McD said in an earlier press conference that they basically plan to suit up 5 or 6 defensive lineman on gamedays.

also, it's hard to say if you're overlooking carlton powell or not, because very few of us have actually seen him play, and are sort of just hoping that he can contribute...

also, 3 deep at NT isn't a bad number, i just question the talent we have there. marcus thomas is versatile in that he should be able to rotate in at the Nose, as well as at end. the same could possibly be said for baker (if he makes the team) and powell. as it stands now, i feel ok about the rotation on the line, but if someone goes down with an injury or just turns out to be shit as a player, then we may be in trouble.

[getlynched47]

I still want to see Thomas at the end in the 3-4, and then shifted in a little when Ayers/Dumervil/Moss put their hand on the ground. I think that would be a five technique end to a three technique tackle, type shift, but I think he's the type of player that could play that position for the Broncos. Much like Peterson.

I want to see Thomas at DE also, but I'm thinking that since he hasn't gotten snaps at DE (from what we've heard), that he'll focus on Nose Tackle and Defensive Tackle (4-3).....it's too much of a guessing game at this point.

I just hope that we don't bulk up Ayers to play 5 technique DE....because that will be a waste of talent IMO.

[rcsodak]

Playing Thomas at NT is like putting a saddle on a sow.

He's not a clogger.....


...he's a penetrator.

[shank]

that's what she said?

[getlynched47]

Playing Thomas at NT is like putting a saddle on a sow.

He's not a clogger.....


...he's a penetrator.

He can be a clogger if McDaniels throws 20+ more pounds on him :eek:

But he's such an athletic lineman...I know that I would play him at Nose Tackle.

But on another thought...maybe he isn't as athletic as we all think...because he was always subbed out during passing downs last year. Him and Robertson came off the field on 3rd down and Peterson and Shaw would come in on passing downs.

It's interesting...

[honz]

He can be a clogger if McDaniels throws 20+ more pounds on him :eek:

But he's such an athletic lineman...I know that I would play him at Nose Tackle.

But on another thought...maybe he isn't as athletic as we all think...because he was always subbed out during passing downs last year. Him and Robertson came off the field on 3rd down and Peterson and Shaw would come in on passing downs.

It's interesting...

Slowick also doesn't know that press coverage is legal and thinks it's a good idea to line a safety up 30 yards deep in the middle of the field. :whoknows:

[shank]

He can be a clogger if McDaniels throws 20+ more pounds on him :eek:

But he's such an athletic lineman...I know that I would play him at Nose Tackle.

But on another thought...maybe he isn't as athletic as we all think...because he was always subbed out during passing downs last year. Him and Robertson came off the field on 3rd down and Peterson and Shaw would come in on passing downs.

It's interesting...

i would personally be quicker to assume that moves like that were do to the ineptness of bobby slowik. thomas was a very good pass rusher from the DT position all through college, i wouldn't assume taht he lost that ability on the day that he got drafted...

at the very least, he's athletic enough to play 5 technique IMO. it would be a waste of his quickness to ask him to bulk up and play nose. i don't want to downplay the importance of the nose tackle, but that would be akin to telling brandon marshall to bulk up to play TE. he could probably do it, but why not use him to the best of his natural abilities?

[getlynched47]

i would personally be quicker to assume that moves like that were do to the ineptness of bobby slowik. thomas was a very good pass rusher from the DT position all through college, i wouldn't assume taht he lost that ability on the day that he got drafted...

at the very least, he's athletic enough to play 5 technique IMO. it would be a waste of his quickness to ask him to bulk up and play nose. i don't want to downplay the importance of the nose tackle, but that would be akin to telling brandon marshall to bulk up to play TE. he could probably do it, but why not use him to the best of his natural abilities?

Doesn't McDaniels want to bulk up Ayers to play 5 technique?

I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to bulk up Thomas to play Nose Tackle (he's been getting his reps at Nose Tackle from what we've heard)

I hope he doesn't bulk up Ayers or Thomas......bulk up that fatass Ronald Fields because he offers no athleticism whatsoever.

Let Ayers play WOLB, keep Peterson at RDE and let McBean and Marcus Thomas fight it out for LDE....that's what I would do.

I also like Carlton Powell at DE, since he's undersized for Nose Tackle (6'3 300 lbs)......but the truth is that he hasn't played a down in the NFL and is coming off a ruptured Achilles.

[shank]

if we are going to bulk up anyone, i hope it's powell because holding his ground and his ability against the run is what has gotten him where he is today. he has the skills i think, he just could use a little more bulk.

i don't think there have been any vocalized plans to change ayers' weight in any way. i think he will most likely stay where he's at and play OLB. he's athletic enough to do so, but the 'heavy' weight will allow him to be moved around in a way that will hopefully create mismatches in different situations.

[honz]

I think McDaniels simply said that Ayers could bulk up to 290 and play DE. I don't recall him ever saying that that is for sure what they want to do with him.

[Simple Jaded]

I'd much rather see the Broncos get their money's worth from Ayers as an OLB, if McBean can start at the 5-tech, that'd be tits.

The reality is, though, that McBean got released by a team that felt they needed DL help bad enough to take a lineman 1st round, a team that clearly has a good idea of what it takes to build a 3-4 defense. Pittsburgh and Denver will be running very different schemes, imo, so maybe McBean better fits what Nolan will do.

Denver is going to need quite a few players like McBean to step up huge.......

[Elevation inc]

my guess would be something like this but who knows.........


LDE- Ryan Mcbean/Carlton Powell
NT- Ryan Fields/Marcus Thomas/Chris Baker
RDE- Kenny Peterson/Rulon Davis/Nic Clemons
WOLB- Elvis Dumervil/Robert Ayers
SOLB- Darrel Reid/Tim Crowder
WILB- DJ Williams/Wesely Woodyard/Lee Robinson
SILB- Andra Davis/Nick Greisen/Spencer Larsen
SS- Brian Dawkins/David Bruton
FS- Renaldo Hill/Darcel Mcbath
CB- Champ Bailey/Andre Goodman/Alphonso Smith/Jack Williams/Josh Bell




PS for defense- DE Everette Pedelesceaux, LB Braxton Kelly, CB Tony Carter(could and should push Josh and jack very hard though),
CB Dominique Johnson, LB Jeff Schwieger

[xzn]

my guess would be something like this but who knows.........


LDE- Ryan Mcbean/Carlton Powell
NT- Ryan Fields/Marcus Thomas/Chris Baker
RDE- Kenny Peterson/Rulon Davis/Nic Clemons
WOLB- Elvis Dumervil/Robert Ayers
SOLB- Darrel Reid/Tim Crowder
WILB- DJ Williams/Wesely Woodyard/Lee Robinson
SILB- Andra Davis/Nick Greisen/Spencer Larsen
SS- Brian Dawkins/David Bruton
FS- Renaldo Hill/Darcel Mcbath
CB- Champ Bailey/Andre Goodman/Alphonso Smith/Jack Williams/Josh Bell




PS for defense- DE Everette Pedelesceaux, LB Braxton Kelly, CB Tony Carter(could and should push Josh and jack very hard though),
CB Dominique Johnson, LB Jeff Schwieger

Where's Josh Barrett? :confused:

[Elevation inc]

Where's Josh Barrett? :confused:

josh barret is super raw loses focus in games tackles to high takes horrible angles, and is a overall project player, he will challenge hard but i belive bruton ultimately beats him out at SS not only because he is a better player but becasue he is a special teams gunner something barrett isnt good at.

Barrett also should not be allowed to play FS as he does not fit the centerfield role even with his speed, because he is to stiff in coverage, isnt a great ballhawk and takes bad breaks and angles. simply put his size speed combination fit well at SS, problem is we have a better safety now in bruton.

anything is possible but my money is on barrett not making the 53:whoknows:

[muse]

josh barret is super raw loses focus in games tackles to high takes horrible angles, and is a overall project player, he will challenge hard but i belive bruton ultimately beats him out at SS not only because he is a better player but becasue he is a special teams gunner something barrett isnt good at.

Barrett also should not be allowed to play FS as he does not fit the centerfield role even with his speed, because he is to stiff in coverage, isnt a great ballhawk and takes bad breaks and angles. simply put his size speed combination fit well at SS, problem is we have a better safety now in bruton.

anything is possible but my money is on barrett not making the 53:whoknows:

Barrett is raw but he is probably the most athletically gifted safety we have right now. And with good coaching I think he could be a starter in 1-2 seasons. He's also highly intelligent which should help the learning process. Last year he made some bad mistakes, but considering he was thrust into the game off the practice squad with the threat of being cut hanging over him (see Roderick Rogers), I think he did ok. Also, Slowik's retarded scheming probably didn't help him much. I think he'll surprise some of us in camp.

[hotcarl]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12286290

McBean, Fields, and Peterson........not household names, but I'm willing to bet that they can get the job done.

What gives you that idea? Seriously, what have any of them done to lead you to this conclusion? :salute:

[getlynched47]

Where's Josh Barrett? :confused:

He shouldn't have been starting in the first place. He's so raw even though he has remarkable talent......But now that we're reloaded at the safety position, I think he's fighting for a roster spot unless we get rid of Vernon Fox (I hope so...cuz he's a scrub)


What gives you that idea? Seriously, what have any of them done to lead you to this conclusion? :salute:

The defensive line looked worse last year when 5 yard runs turned into 30 yard runs with poor tackling from the safeties. With new DB's and a new defensive scheme, the defensive line WILL be better this year...not to mention we have 3 new starters at three different positions.

[Lonestar]

He shouldn't have been starting in the first place. He's so raw even though he has remarkable talent......But now that we're reloaded at the safety position, I think he's fighting for a roster spot unless we get rid of Vernon Fox (I hope so...cuz he's a scrub)



The defensive line looked worse last year when 5 yard runs turned into 30 yard runs with poor tackling from the safeties. With new DB's and a new defensive scheme, the defensive line WILL be better this year...not to mention we have 3 new starters at three different positions.

If Y'all have been listening to Josh almost every comment he makes have been EVERYONE will get the chance to compete for playing spots..

I think he has a few will be theres like Orton, Moreno and #18 but after that everyones job is on the line (save perhaps Champ, the OLINE and WRs), and those are probably the only for sure starters on the squad.

[getlynched47]

Anybody else kind of scared with Robert Ayers?

The guys is an incredibly high risk-high reward player.

Not much of a pass rusher with okay athleticism....kind of like Jamaal Anderson from Atlanta....:eek:

FYI Jamaal Anderson sucks......and only had 2 sacks in his entire career...

[Lonestar]

Anybody else kind of scared with Robert Ayers?

The guys is an incredibly high risk-high reward player.

Not much of a pass rusher with okay athleticism....kind of like Jamaal Anderson from Atlanta....:eek:

FYI Jamaal Anderson sucks......and only had 2 sacks in his entire career...

you seem to be at odds with most of the prognosticators as they all loved the guy as a DE and conversion to OLB..

[MOtorboat]

Anybody else kind of scared with Robert Ayers?

The guys is an incredibly high risk-high reward player.

Not much of a pass rusher with okay athleticism....kind of like Jamaal Anderson from Atlanta....:eek:

FYI Jamaal Anderson sucks......and only had 2 sacks in his entire career...

Well, for one, we're not going to be playing the 4-3 that Atlanta runs. Even when Ayers might have his hand on the ground, its just not the same principle. Second, yes, a little worried, just as I was with Moss. But, different talent evaluators and a different regime, so to be honest, I'm just not sure. I'm unsure about everything.

[MOtorboat]

you seem to be at odds with most of the prognosticators as they all loved the guy as a DE and conversion to OLB..

The problem with Ayers is his college production and play. His only really good year was his senior year. Its a typical situation where these draftniks fall in love with an athlete. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Man I hope it works. That's actually the one guy in the draft where he didn't have solid production for multiple years in college. Looking at the rest of the draft I think McDaniels was looking at that, but at this...well...yes...it worries me that he might have fallen in love with an athlete and not a solid football player.

[getlynched47]

The problem with Ayers is his college production and play. His only really good year was his senior year. Its a typical situation where these draftniks fall in love with an athlete. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Man I hope it works. That's actually the one guy in the draft where he didn't have solid production for multiple years in college. Looking at the rest of the draft I think McDaniels was looking at that, but at this...well...yes...it worries me that he might have fallen in love with an athlete and not a solid football player.

I honestly don't see how people view him as an "athlete"...at the combine the guy ran a 4.9, only 18 reps on the bench, his vertical jump was horrible at 29.5, his broad jump was even worse at 8'6" (BJ Raji and Evander Hood did better, Ayers was 7th from last out of 30+ guys), he ran a 7.56 three cone drill (best time by d-lineman at combine was 6.87 so that's a HUGE difference), and his 20 yard shuttle was 4.51 (best time 4.18 by dlineman)....

You can argue that this stuff doesn't mean anything...but I just don't see how he will be able to cover tight ends and runningbacks...he's just too slow.
I'm hoping for the best for Ayers, but I'm kinda scared...

[Tempus Fugit]

The defensive line looked worse last year when 5 yard runs turned into 30 yard runs with poor tackling from the safeties. With new DB's and a new defensive scheme, the defensive line WILL be better this year...not to mention we have 3 new starters at three different positions.

One thing Broncos fans need to be prepared for is the very real possibility that the defense could be better in many areas and still get absolutely killed because the NT can't get the job done. The 2002 Patriots were coming off of a Super Bowl win, but Steve Martin couldn't stop the run and that team missed the playoffs. The next year they got Washington and it was right back to the top of the league.

[Elevation inc]

Barrett is raw but he is probably the most athletically gifted safety we have right now. And with good coaching I think he could be a starter in 1-2 seasons. He's also highly intelligent which should help the learning process. Last year he made some bad mistakes, but considering he was thrust into the game off the practice squad with the threat of being cut hanging over him (see Roderick Rogers), I think he did ok. Also, Slowik's retarded scheming probably didn't help him much. I think he'll surprise some of us in camp.

i would say bruton is just as athletically gifted.... same size speed combination, but bruton hits better and doesnt lose focus and can play special teams well, something barret couldnt do. Not to mention barrett loses focus to quickly and his confidence gets killed easily. coaching can fix that, but i personally dont belive barrett will be in denver after TC

[Bad Intentions]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12286290



He's 6'5, 290 lbs. and was drafted by the Steelers in the 4th round three years ago.

He spent a lot of time learning under the vaunted Steelers defense on the practice squad.....and is a true 5 technique Defensive End.

Surprise starter? I tend to think so......

I don't think it would be wise to bulk up Ayers to 280+, because he'll lose some of his explosiveness.

Line him up at WOLB, with Dumervil at SOLB and have both of them at Defensive End in passing situations.

This scheme seems to heavily favor ENORMOUS Outer linebackers...so Boss Bailey is not an option. Proof? Crowder, Moss, Dumervil, and Darrell Reid are fighting to grab both outer linebacker positions.

Keep Ayers at OLB and pass rushing DE, and let's see if Ryan McBean explodes with this opportunity.

McBean, Fields, and Peterson........not household names, but I'm willing to bet that they can get the job done.


Don't count out Rulon Davis either. He played the 5-tech at Cal and has an attitude that will almost always allow for success. He has been thru a lot, I wouldn't count him out. And, he has the size at 6'5 and 285#.

[broncofaninfla]

I can't recal a season in which I had NO idea who is playing where. I can't wait until the intial depth chart is released.
Anybody know when the next camp is?

[LTC Pain]

I can't recal a season in which I had NO idea who is playing where. I can't wait until the intial depth chart is released.
Anybody know when the next camp is?


I've been Googling for the Broncos' main training camp dates (July?) and can't find anything so maybe these date haven't been released yet.

[Lonestar]

I've been Googling for the Broncos' main training camp dates (July?) and can't find anything so maybe these date haven't been released yet.

the denverpost had an article on it not to long ago.. might try the broncos.com also

[G_Money]

i would say bruton is just as athletically gifted.... same size speed combination, but bruton hits better and doesnt lose focus and can play special teams well, something barret couldnt do. Not to mention barrett loses focus to quickly and his confidence gets killed easily. coaching can fix that, but i personally dont belive barrett will be in denver after TC

Bruton and Barrett are comparable physically, though Barrett is bigger. Both posted some extremely good numbers for their positions.

Both players are very smart.

Both players are good on ST (not sure why you think Barrett isn't). Bruton's probably better - he's a terrific gunner.

Bruton has more of a mangler mentality than Barrett - Barrett's injuries made him tentative about giving up his body for a hit.

Barrett misses fewer tackles than Bruton. He just does. He plays with his head up better.

And Barrett is better in coverage than Bruton - not as big a deal if they're both competing for SS, but Barrett can play both positions, and it's useful to have a SS who can perform coverage duty when necessary in today's NFL.

If Donatell can teach Bruton not to whiff as much, he has a good chance to make the team over Barrett. If Barrett can learn to play aggressively again, he can make the team over Bruton (we'd probably try to PS Bruton, or keep the extra safety - both our starters are old, no sense letting safety injuries get the better of us when we can help it).

I hope both of them get to spend time around Dawkins - they can learn a lot from him. And I really like Donatell as a DB coach, so I'm hoping he can get the most out of them too.

But I'm still not sure why we spent the Bruton pick on a guy who was essentially already on the roster. If it comes down to an either/or situation, I expect Barrett to make it a much harder choice than some might think, at least as long as the competition really is open and Bruton doesn't have to be the guy just so that McDaniels wasn't "wrong" about the pick.

~G

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I don't see why you incessantly talk about practicing squading a fourth round chioce in David Bruton; most teams don't do that. If Bruton was put on the PS; another team would likely eat him up because he could make an impact and be on an active roster for many teams. Bruton was a better prospect than Barrett and he is a better player than Barrett. He is also better than him at special teams; so if push came to shove -- Barrett is the odd man out. It is pretty easy to realize that. The only justification I can see in that regard is just blind faith towards Barrett. You know, I think the drafting of two safeties and the bringing in of Dawkins and Hill might have been indicative that the Broncos were not at all thrilled with the depth they had there to begin with; which would have included the likes of Barrett and Fox.

Furthermore, Bruton and Barrett aren't the same kind of player -- so I don't see why you keep bringing that up either because that certainly is not the case no matter how you try and slice it. McDaniels came in here and acquired the kind of players he wanted. I'm not sure whether or not Barrett really fits into that mix, given the aforesaid.

[honz]

I expect both Bruton and Barrett to be on our final roster. I've never seen Bruton on Special Teams, but he is supposedly a beast...and Barrett was probably our best Special Teams player early on last year. He seemed to be around the ball on nearly every kickoff in preseason and before he went to the PS. If McD truly sees kick coverage as the first defensive play of a series like NE does, both will be on the final roster.

[G_Money]

I don't see why you incessantly talk about practicing squading a fourth round chioce in David Bruton; most teams don't do that. If Bruton was put on the PS; another team would likely eat him up because he could make an impact and be on an active roster for many teams. Bruton was a better prospect than Barrett and he is a better player than Barrett. He is also better than him at special teams; so if push came to shove -- Barrett is the odd man out. It is pretty easy to realize that. The only justification I can see in that regard is just blind faith towards Barrett. You know, I think the drafting of two safeties and the bringing in of Dawkins and Hill might have been indicative that the Broncos were not at all thrilled with the depth they had there to begin with; which would have included the likes of Barrett and Fox.

Furthermore, Bruton and Barrett aren't the same kind of player -- so I don't see why you keep bringing that up either because that certainly is not the case no matter how you try and slice it. McDaniels came in here and acquired the kind of players he wanted. I'm not sure whether or not Barrett really fits into that mix, given the aforesaid.

Dream,

If Barrett can actually play football and Bruton has only mastered ST by the end of the preseason, where else would you put Bruton? We might carry both, but it's not entirely likely. If the two are equal, then Bruton stays. He's the new choice, he has less experience, he's probably better at what he'll be doing off the bat (ST work). If Bruton is better, Barrett is immediately gone. If Barrett is better at safety...then what? Carry Bruton too so you don't look silly for drafting him in the 4th? Trade him for something you need so you don't lose him to someone else's roster for nothing? Slap him on IR with a fake injury so you can pocket him for next year?

Both Barrett and Bruton are guys who put up big numbers at combines but aren't as good on the actual field as they show in drills. How many of those guys do you want to carry and try to coach up?

They're not the same player, but they play (at least potentially) the same position and are both specimens rather than instinctive football players.

It's entirely likely that McDaniels didn't like what he saw of Barrett on tape and so moved to fill that position with someone else. But unless something weird happens Barrett will get a chance to prove him wrong in camp. Stranger things have happened.

If he doesn't and gets cut, so be it. I want the best players for my team, and if Barrett is not one of the best options, then don't keep him. With the new FA safeties and the newly drafted safeties, he has his work cut out for him to make the roster.

Maybe we would keep both him and Bruton if they both showed well. I'd like both of them to make it a choice worth debating. Far better option than the "Cut all the bums" problem we were having at the position last year.

~G

[Simple Jaded]

Apparently Bruton was a complete stiff in agility drills leading up to the draft, some even thought he'd go undrafted until he ran well at the Combine. I thought Barrett played well enough to earn a roster spot in 09, but unfortunately, I agree that Barrett is the odd man out, but most likely because of Bruton's ST's ability, not because Bruton is a better overall player.

If Barrett were the ST's player people thought he was supposed to be this time last year, Bruton would not be a Bronco.......you'd think.

Hopefully Barrett gets a chance somewhere.

Btw, some have wondered about McBath being tried at both CB and S, McBath is slow for a Safety but maybe there is a chance that both Barrett and Bruton can make the Final 53......

[Simple Jaded]

I don't watch much Notre Dame, but I'd be willing to be that Bruton has never put together a season like the one Barrett had as a Jr.......

[getlynched47]

I honestly don't see how people view him as an "athlete"...at the combine the guy ran a 4.9, only 18 reps on the bench, his vertical jump was horrible at 29.5, his broad jump was even worse at 8'6" (BJ Raji and Evander Hood did better, Ayers was 7th from last out of 30+ guys), he ran a 7.56 three cone drill (best time by d-lineman at combine was 6.87 so that's a HUGE difference), and his 20 yard shuttle was 4.51 (best time 4.18 by dlineman)....

You can argue that this stuff doesn't mean anything...but I just don't see how he will be able to cover tight ends and runningbacks...he's just too slow.
I'm hoping for the best for Ayers, but I'm kinda scared...

How the hell did this turn into a Barrett vs. Bruton thread? :lol:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

If Barrett can actually play football and Bruton has only mastered ST by the end of the preseason, where else would you put Bruton?

Bruton is going to make the final roster. Guaranteed. You don't draft a safety in the fourth round to subsequently place him on the practice squad and risk him getting acquired by another team. Considering his specialty as a gunner and how awful our special teams is; he'll be the guy over Barrett if push comes to shove. I'm assuming Hill and Dawkins would be our starters, with McBath and Bruton backing them up. In the unlikely scenario we carry a fifth safety; I'd guess it'd be Barrett. Keep in mind that Barrett actually has eligibility years left on the PS and would far more likely be the candidate to get placed with that denotation.


We might carry both, but it's not entirely likely. If the two are equal, then Bruton stays. He's the new choice, he has less experience, he's probably better at what he'll be doing off the bat (ST work).

Yep, which is what I've been saying.


If Bruton is better, Barrett is immediately gone.

Obviously.


If Barrett is better at safety...then what? Carry Bruton too so you don't look silly for drafting him in the 4th? Trade him for something you need so you don't lose him to someone else's roster for nothing? Slap him on IR with a fake injury so you can pocket him for next year?

I'm just going to go out and say Barrett probably isn't going to be the better safety. Drafting Bruton in the fourth round wasn't silly. Are you even suggesting trading Bruton? How ludicrous. I expect better out of you. I don't really buy into the phantom injury idea as much as some people did back in the Shanahan days, (a la Eslinger, which was later to proved to be bunk considering he has multiple surgeries)


Both Barrett and Bruton are guys who put up big numbers at combines but aren't as good on the actual field as they show in drills. How many of those guys do you want to carry and try to coach up?

I'll carry Dawkins, Hill, McBath and Bruton. Barrett would be the odd man out, because frankly he isn't that good.


They're not the same player, but they play (at least potentially) the same position and are both specimens rather than instinctive football players.

Well, then don't state they are the same type of player just in order to benefit your position on the given argument. They aren't. Period.


It's entirely likely that McDaniels didn't like what he saw of Barrett on tape and so moved to fill that position with someone else.

Of course. We brought in two safeties and drafted two. I'm pretty sure that says it all.


But unless something weird happens Barrett will get a chance to prove him wrong in camp. Stranger things have happened.

Right.


If he doesn't and gets cut, so be it. I want the best players for my team, and if Barrett is not one of the best options, then don't keep him. With the new FA safeties and the newly drafted safeties, he has his work cut out for him to make the roster.

Maybe we would keep both him and Bruton if they both showed well. I'd like both of them to make it a choice worth debating. Far better option than the "Cut all the bums" problem we were having at the position last year.

~G

I'd like to see them both do well. Considering the age of Dawkins and my less than enthused views on Hill. I was excited about getting Barrett where we did last year, but just have a suspicion that he won't do much in the NFL. IMHO, the only reason he saw the field last year was because of the porous talent we had overall at safety.

We'll see though, my major beef was your contention that they were the same player and that you believed we'd put Bruton on the PS. I'd just find that surprising, given his draft status. Who knows though. I'll be hear to eat shit for sure if I'm wrong.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I don't watch much Notre Dame, but I'd be willing to be that Bruton has never put together a season like the one Barrett had as a Jr.......

Barrett, 82 tackles as a junior with three interceptions right?

Well, Bruton actually did better in his junior and senior years, registering more tackles (85 and 93) along with three picks each year. So statistically, yes -- Bruton did better as a starter at Notre Dame than Barrett ever did as a starter at ASU. I guess you should have watched Notre Dame more before putting out such a proposition. Hopefully you're not a betting man, because you just lost.

[rcsodak]

Apparently Bruton was a complete stiff in agility drills leading up to the draft, some even thought he'd go undrafted until he ran well at the Combine. I thought Barrett played well enough to earn a roster spot in 09, but unfortunately, I agree that Barrett is the odd man out, but most likely because of Bruton's ST's ability, not because Bruton is a better overall player.

If Barrett were the ST's player people thought he was supposed to be this time last year, Bruton would not be a Bronco.......you'd think.

Hopefully Barrett gets a chance somewhere.

Btw, some have wondered about McBath being tried at both CB and S, McBath is slow for a Safety but maybe there is a chance that both Barrett and Bruton can make the Final 53......

Ummmmmm..... :confused:

....does this mean he's fast for a corner? :shocked:

[Simple Jaded]

Barrett, 82 tackles as a junior with three interceptions right?

Well, Bruton actually did better in his junior and senior years, registering more tackles (85 and 93) along with three picks each year. So statistically, yes -- Bruton did better as a starter at Notre Dame than Barrett ever did as a starter at ASU. I guess you should have watched Notre Dame more before putting out such a proposition. Hopefully you're not a betting man, because you just lost.

Barrett also had 6 pass def (to Bruton's 5), 7-1/2 tackles for loss (Unless PFW is wrong, Bruton doesn't have that many in his career), one Fum and a sack. Statistically speaking, it's debatable.

Barrett was also voted Defensive MVP, can't find any results on Bruton in that regard.......

[MOtorboat]

Barrett also had 6 pass def (to Bruton's 5), 7-1/2 tackles for loss (Unless PFW is wrong, Bruton doesn't have that many in his career), one Fum and a sack. Statistically speaking, it's debatable.

Barrett was also voted Defensive MVP, can't find any results on Bruton in that regard.......

So, the team voted Barrett the Defensive MVP, and that's why he's better than Bruton? Well, Bruton was the Defensive MVP of the 2007 Notre Dame Spring game!

Other than the fact that this is a thread about Ryan McBean, that's a ridiculous argument.

As Cicero said from the get-go, they are two different players, and two different types of players...

So, McBean...3-4 DE...I can dig it....

[Simple Jaded]

So, the team voted Barrett the Defensive MVP, and that's why he's better than Bruton? Well, Bruton was the Defensive MVP of the 2007 Notre Dame Spring game!

Other than the fact that this is a thread about Ryan McBean, that's a ridiculous argument.

As Cicero said from the get-go, they are two different players, and two different types of players...

So, McBean...3-4 DE...I can dig it....

No it isn't, his performance and impact on the defense was enough to be voted the Defensive MVP, that tells me that it goes a little deeper than the 3 to 9 tackles that Bruton has on Barrett and it goes a little deeper than being voted Defensive MVP for a spring game.

So, McBean, "The perfect 3-4 DE".......let's hope so.......

[Elevation inc]

I honestly don't see how people view him as an "athlete"...at the combine the guy ran a 4.9, only 18 reps on the bench, his vertical jump was horrible at 29.5, his broad jump was even worse at 8'6" (BJ Raji and Evander Hood did better, Ayers was 7th from last out of 30+ guys), he ran a 7.56 three cone drill (best time by d-lineman at combine was 6.87 so that's a HUGE difference), and his 20 yard shuttle was 4.51 (best time 4.18 by dlineman)....

You can argue that this stuff doesn't mean anything...but I just don't see how he will be able to cover tight ends and runningbacks...he's just too slow.
I'm hoping for the best for Ayers, but I'm kinda scared...



one of the best d cordinators in the game Monte Kiffin Stated when evaluating propspects tape doesnt LIE!!!! you wanna know why mayock loved guys like english and ayers over brown and maybin????? because of there tape, guys dont have to be athletic freaks to get the jobs done and be great See terrell suggs.


Ayers has great tape, in fact most of our players we drafted becasue of there tape. not becasue of there 40 time or how they ran a agility drill....we drafted them because of there actual taped performance and production on the field(NOT YOU TUBE HIGHLIGHTS!!!!)....

[Elevation inc]

as for the barrett vs bruton crap...i look forward to the camp battle....and perhaps it will be closer than some think now that slowik isnt running the show and having barrett as a punt returner....lol...that, and the coaching has improved at the position levels.....

[Simple Jaded]

as for the barrett vs bruton crap...i look forward to the camp battle....and perhaps it will be closer than some think now that slowik isnt running the show and having barrett as a punt returner....lol...that, and the coaching has improved at the position levels.....

Shit!

That Prevent Punt Coverage 1 defense was pure genius, just like the Wildcat, everybody will be copying it in 2009.......mark my words.......

[Elevation inc]

Shit!

That Prevent Punt Coverage 1 defense was pure genius, just like the Wildcat, everybody will be copying it in 2009.......mark my words.......

i realized at that point then that depsite the lack of pass rush, depsite the lack of turnovers, depsite some questionable talent and poor play by the DL and safties and rest of the defense, the end result of our pathetic defense was a direct reflection of Slwoiks failure as a DC everyehwere he has been, and a direct reflection of how just incompetent he was.....

had shanny realized that and made a neccessary midseason move we probally wouldnt be here right now talking about orton or trading draft picks for poor value.....

in fact it will be nice to see a legit DC in nolan have a defense play physical for a change. We may not have the talent or we might, but regardless there will be no soft coverage and lack of physical play......

i do look forward to a power run game, and a physical defense. I think doogie as you put it has a plan, and in time he will grow even better in the Office side of things.....

and maybe just maybe these players that looked so bad under piss poor coaching, will actually be quite good under better coaching, Mike Mccoy is a upgrade over jeremy bates by far, nolan is way better than slowik, and our Dl and LB coaches are much better as well. not to mention we retained the 3 best coaches outside of shanny in turner, dennison and burns......