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View Full Version : Time to come and eat some crow.



BroncoWave
04-27-2012, 07:28 PM
This is to everyone who so stubbornly and ignorantly claimed that EFX just REFUSED to draft a DT or that they just didn't think DT is an important position worthy of a high draft pick. This goes for SEVERAL of you and you know who you are.

G_Money
04-27-2012, 07:38 PM
Did we break our tradition of being allergic to the use of a 1st round pick on a DT? No? I don't see how that requires crow-eating, then.

I expected to spend a second round on one, and we did. I'm proud of the Broncos for getting over their phobia of drafting DTs at ALL, though. I think there were many DTs better than Wolfe in last year's draft, but thank god we have Rahim Moore to negate the need for collapsing a pocket. Oh, wait...

Better late than never, Xanders. I'm satisfied with the talent and potential of Wolfe, but let's not pretend we traded up to get Fletcher Cox or something. Glad we saw it as a need and didn't run away from it, even though it's not a sexy pick. And now I hope we do something useful with the pick we dropped back to get.

~G

BroncoStud
04-27-2012, 08:09 PM
So far this draft is as unimpressive as I've seen in Denver. 2 reaches...

All those 4th rounders we acquired mean jack shit when the talent is off the board. Poorly executed draft.

Nomad
04-27-2012, 08:58 PM
Did we break our tradition of being allergic to the use of a 1st round pick on a DT? No? I don't see how that requires crow-eating, then.

I expected to spend a second round on one, and we did. I'm proud of the Broncos for getting over their phobia of drafting DTs at ALL, though. I think there were many DTs better than Wolfe in last year's draft, but thank god we have Rahim Moore to negate the need for collapsing a pocket. Oh, wait...

Better late than never, Xanders. I'm satisfied with the talent and potential of Wolfe, but let's not pretend we traded up to get Fletcher Cox or something. Glad we saw it as a need and didn't run away from it, even though it's not a sexy pick. And now I hope we do something useful with the pick we dropped back to get.

~G

Right on!

dogfish
04-27-2012, 09:47 PM
one second rounder in like a dozen years. . . new york giants, stand back!!


:lol:

BroncoWave
04-27-2012, 10:06 PM
Typical Bronco fans. Complain day after day about not drafting DTs high, then bitch about it when they actually do. Gotta love it!

sneakers
04-27-2012, 10:07 PM
pooopooooop

Jsteve01
04-27-2012, 10:34 PM
Wolfe isn't the sexy pick so it doesn't count

Lancane
04-27-2012, 10:40 PM
Wolfe isn't the sexy pick so it doesn't count

Hahaha....so true, so sadly damn true! :lol:

I thought the pick would be Reyes, but they pulled the stunner. By the way, rumor has it that Wolfe was a top of the Chargers' board who ended up taking Reyes instead.

dogfish
04-27-2012, 10:51 PM
Typical Bronco fans. Complain day after day about not drafting DTs high, then bitch about it when they actually do. Gotta love it!

who's complaining? making fun of your predictable overreaction doesn't equal complaining. . . ;)

BroncoWave
04-27-2012, 10:54 PM
who's complaining? making fun of your predictable overreaction doesn't equal complaining. . . ;)

If people are going to constantly spew their ignorance about Denver's refusal to address the DT position, they should man up and admit that they didn't really know what the hell they were talking about. I don't really expect anyone to though.

BeefStew25
04-27-2012, 10:56 PM
BTB, you are a living breathing tampon.

NickelTG
04-27-2012, 10:59 PM
This is to everyone who so stubbornly and ignorantly claimed that EFX just REFUSED to draft a DT or that they just didn't think DT is an important position worthy of a high draft pick. This goes for SEVERAL of you and you know who you are.

One of the espn draft tracker questions directed to fans.

Thoughts on Derek Wolfe?

Top answer with 73%. Who is Derek Wolfe?

I'm not saying they're wrong. I just don't think that's quite some fans MIGHT have wanted.

DenBronx
04-27-2012, 11:05 PM
So far this draft is as unimpressive as I've seen in Denver. 2 reaches...

All those 4th rounders we acquired mean jack shit when the talent is off the board. Poorly executed draft.


I'm with ya on this. I have zero clue why anyone is excited.

We reached for Wolfe and there were still THREE higher ranked DTs on the board.
EFX didnt want to deal with the 1st round project QB Tebow and traded him away for nothing. What do they do? The pick an EVEN BIGGER project and waste a high pick on him. Tall, lanky, low delivery but has a BIG arm! Wow, so did Tebow.
We passed on several guys that would come in day 1 and start....day 1!!! For what? A 4th? lol....ok.....sure. *fart*
We then have a chance to get Lamar Miller or LaMichael James and we trade UP for another reach!

Wow....just wow. This is the first year where I just had to shut of the TV. Even with all of the stupid trades and picks McDaniels was doing I still had to watch because I realized Joshy was mental in the head. I know EFX knows better than that....I know it. So that's why it was hard to watch.

Now all I am seeing is Wolfe is so great this, Wolfe is so great that....Brocks the best thing since sliced cheese....yeah we got the next Sproles/MJD.




Eff my life.

G_Money
04-27-2012, 11:06 PM
Still not sure what the point of this thread is. "to everyone who so stubbornly and ignorantly claimed that EFX just REFUSED to draft a DT or that they just didn't think DT is an important position worthy of a high draft pick. This goes for SEVERAL of you and you know who you are."

I guess we should all stop posting in this thread, since dogfish and I have been screaming about DTs forever and both said it would be a stretch for the Broncos to draft one in the first, and they didn't. So, uh...we were right. :huh:

And Lancane, I do think that's why they went Wolfe there: They didn't feel like he would drop any further and they wanted him. I'm glad we got the guy we wanted at a reasonable draft position in our minds. It makes it easier to judge the draft than when they make the excuse that "There wasn't anybody we liked, so we couldn't address that problem on our roster."

We traded around the first two days and got exactly who we wanted, from the looks of things. This is very good news.

~G

BroncoStud
04-28-2012, 12:19 AM
Yep, pretty spot on. Any way you slice it Wolfe was a reach and would have been there later in the draft. Brock is a very long term project at best, and we have simply flushed value down the toilet this draft.

I'm actually surprised to see Elway performing this poorly.

Jsteve01
04-28-2012, 01:19 AM
Yep, pretty spot on. Any way you slice it Wolfe was a reach and would have been there later in the draft. Brock is a very long term project at best, and we have simply flushed value down the toilet this draft.

I'm actually surprised to see Elway performing this poorly. I love the speculation that he would have been there later. We don't know that. Just because a few pundits say it doesn't make it so. He was hands the best pass rushing dt numbers wise in the draft. Never gives up. Above avg athleticism. Great motor. Relentless. Sure he's no Cox but for the love of Pete can these kids play a down before we write them off?

nevcraw
04-28-2012, 06:50 AM
so they grabbed a DT, a project QB and a tweener RB. It will either work or it won't.. we shall see. hope it does.. No reason to defend or disparage yet..

Cugel
04-28-2012, 09:27 AM
I love the speculation that he would have been there later. We don't know that. Just because a few pundits say it doesn't make it so. He was hands the best pass rushing dt numbers wise in the draft. Never gives up. Above avg athleticism. Great motor. Relentless. Sure he's no Cox but for the love of Pete can these kids play a down before we write them off?

He wasn't even in Mel Kiper's top 68 picks last night after he revised that list following the 1st round. Then Kiper goes on TV and covers his ass by saying he thought Wolfe was great. :rolleyes:

Reality is that EFX didn't think Wolfe would be there late in the 3rd round. They were set on taking Osweiler at #57 and weren't sure they could move up in the 3rd. They had already screwed up the Doug Martin deal by assuming Tampa Bay wouldn't take Martin. (This has already been reported in the news). So, they panicked and reached for Wolfe at #36.

This is a perfect example of bad drafting. First they fell in love with Wolfe and Osweiler, then they panicked and grabbed both.

They didn't even NEED a QB, but Osweiler is great friends with Jack Elway and apparently he had a "great conversation" with John Elway who made the ROOKIE MISTAKE of falling in love with a player.

You can't get committed to any one player. There were other DTs to take in the 2nd round, lots of them! And all of them had comparable grades to Wolfe. He's nothing special or he would have been a 1st round pick.

The Broncos aren't the only team that can evaluate talent you know. Every other GM is a professional too.

If they needed a backup QB for the next 3 years they could have kept Tebow. He'd be better than Osweiler at that anyway. And no I don't care about Tebow. I just think Caleb Haney will do fine holding a clip-board until Manning retires and then they can worry about finding a replacement.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 09:31 AM
so they grabbed a DT, a project QB and a tweener RB. It will either work or it won't.. we shall see. hope it does.. No reason to defend or disparage yet..

Yes there is. :coffee:

Why do they need to get their "QB of the future" now? If Manning is injured the next 2 years Osweiler isn't going to be ready anyway. If he ever is.

The odds he's going to be some great QB in the future are less than 10% after all. That's the percentage of starting QBs in NFL history taken after the 1st round. The percentage of elite SB winning QBs taken after the first is even smaller.

The reality is that nobody can win the SB without an elite QB, not just a good one and Osweiler is wildly unlikely ever to be elite. There are lot of good QBs who just aren't good enough. And they don't win championships oddly enough!

So, the obvious thing to do is get a bunch of impact players to help Manning win a championship NOW, and worry about the future later! But, they didn't do that!

MOtorboat
04-28-2012, 09:52 AM
He wasn't even in Mel Kiper's top 68 picks last night after he revised that list following the 1st round. Then Kiper goes on TV and covers his ass by saying he thought Wolfe was great. :rolleyes:

Reality is that EFX didn't think Wolfe would be there late in the 3rd round. They were set on taking Osweiler at #57 and weren't sure they could move up in the 3rd. They had already screwed up the Doug Martin deal by assuming Tampa Bay wouldn't take Martin. (This has already been reported in the news). So, they panicked and reached for Wolfe at #36.

This is a perfect example of bad drafting. First they fell in love with Wolfe and Osweiler, then they panicked and grabbed both.

They didn't even NEED a QB, but Osweiler is great friends with Jack Elway and apparently he had a "great conversation" with John Elway who made the ROOKIE MISTAKE of falling in love with a player.

You can't get committed to any one player. There were other DTs to take in the 2nd round, lots of them! And all of them had comparable grades to Wolfe. He's nothing special or he would have been a 1st round pick.

The Broncos aren't the only team that can evaluate talent you know. Every other GM is a professional too.

If they needed a backup QB for the next 3 years they could have kept Tebow. He'd be better than Osweiler at that anyway. And no I don't care about Tebow. I just think Caleb Haney will do fine holding a clip-board until Manning retires and then they can worry about finding a replacement.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7853482/top-5-prospects-position

He was Kipers 4th best defensive tackle listed, and sure enough he was the fourth defensive tackle drafted.

:whoknows:

Northman
04-28-2012, 09:58 AM
You can't get committed to any one player. There were other DTs to take in the 2nd round, lots of them! And all of them had comparable grades to Wolfe. He's nothing special or he would have been a 1st round pick.

.

So wait genius. You claim there were other comparable DT's to be had yet complain that Wolfe wasnt special because he didnt go first round? Really? Nice contradiction there.

Ravage!!!
04-28-2012, 10:39 AM
Yep, pretty spot on. Any way you slice it Wolfe was a reach and would have been there later in the draft. Brock is a very long term project at best, and we have simply flushed value down the toilet this draft.

I'm actually surprised to see Elway performing this poorly.


Maybe, maybe not. YOU think its a reach because somebody ranked them the way they did, and you read those rankings. Mayock and Kiper both had him as a first round talent, and as Lan pointed out...SD had them at the top of their board as well. So whats the problem? It doesn't meet the ranking YOU gave?

CoachChaz
04-28-2012, 10:56 AM
You can't get committed to any one player. There were other DTs to take in the 2nd round, lots of them! And all of them had comparable grades to Wolfe. He's nothing special or he would have been a 1st round pick.

.

So wait genius. You claim there were other comparable DT's to be had yet complain that Wolfe wasnt special because he didnt go first round? Really? Nice contradiction there.

Some people know more than anyone else. These same people refuse to let the rest of us know where to find crystal balls.

Northman
04-28-2012, 10:58 AM
Some people know more than anyone else. These same people refuse to let the rest of us know where to find crystal balls.

If only they could be like you and me. Unfortuantely i lost my eight ball. :lol:

spikerman
04-28-2012, 11:00 AM
I guess I don't understand the point of this thread. Many of us complained that the Broncos haven't cared much about DT for years and history has proven that to be correct. Elway's own statements showed that he doesn't value the position as highly as others. Most of us said that we'd be ecstatic if the Broncos changed course and actually drafted a DT as more than an afterthought, which they finally did, after 15 years. That doesn't change the fact that the Broncos haven't made much of an effort to fill the position with anybody except older, injury prone, and/or backup level players since drafting Trevor Pryce. Personally, I'm happy that they finally made an effort to improve the position. I don't know much about Wolfe, but I'm hopeful that this is a sign that the mentality is finally changing.

MOtorboat
04-28-2012, 11:00 AM
If only they could be like you and me. Unfortuantely i lost my eight ball. :lol:

Crack is whack.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 12:30 PM
So wait genius. You claim there were other comparable DT's to be had yet complain that Wolfe wasnt special because he didnt go first round? Really? Nice contradiction there.

You really need work on your reading comprehension. :coffee:

NOBODY thought Derek Wolfe was a 1st round pick. He wasn't even on the radar in the first.

He was the Broncos projected THIRD round pick.

They identified their needs as DT, RB and developmental QB (in that order). But, Brockers and Poe were gone by #14. At that point their board was clearly:

Trade back in the first round from #25 to #31 and get -- RB Doug Martin
2nd round -- QB Brock Osweiler
3rd round -- DT Derek Wolfe

They've been discussing this on 104.3 the Fan for the last 2 days now. But the Broncos screwed up thinking they could trade back from #31 to #36 and still get Martin. Only (as Elway admitted) they never bothered to discuss with Tampa what player they wanted. OOOPS!

The Bucs grabbed Denver's player, Martin at #31. NOW they didn't have anybody they wanted at #36.

They wanted Brock Osweiler in the second, but they didn't want to reach for him at #36, they knew he'd be there at #57 and he was.

But, they weren't prepared to select another player at #36, and they weren't sure they could trade up in the 3rd far enough to get Wolfe, (the trade of Cleveland's #67 pick (#4 in the 3rd round) for Denver's #87 pick of the third and their #120 pick of the 4th hadn't happened yet).

Therefore, they reached for Wolfe at #36. Sure, he would have been there at #57 but neither Osweiler or Wolfe would be there at #120 and Denver couldn't be sure of being able to trade up and get either between #57 and #120 and #36 was too much of a reach for Osweiler.

So, they thought they had to take Wolfe at #36 if they wanted him. Pure reach pick because they fell in love with Wolfe and wanted to make sure they got at least one of their top picks after they failed to secure Doug Martin at #36.

But, as it turned out, they could have drafted a DIFFERENT PLAYER at #36, still taken Osweiler at #57 and would only have had to wait another 9 picks between #57 and #67 (the Saints forfeited their pick so they don't count) before they could get Wolfe with Cleveland's 4th pick of the third.

They panicked when Martin went to Tampa and that screwed up their board. They had a need for a RB and traded up in the third to get the best one left on the board. Since they didn't secure a RB at #36 they had to take a DT there.

You'll notice that despite all the talk about "best player available" they were purely drafting for need: DT, RB, QB (in that order).

They just couldn't get a DT in the first because the guys they targeted (Brockers and Poe) were gone by #14. They couldn't get a RB in the 2nd because Tampa grabbed Martin, so they took their top rated DT there.

MOtorboat
04-28-2012, 12:34 PM
That's a lot of assumptions.

Northman
04-28-2012, 12:39 PM
Yea, ive seen NOTHING that remotely shows they were planning on taking Martin. Pretty big assumption.

Ravage!!!
04-28-2012, 12:40 PM
That's a lot of assumptions.

That is not only assumptions, but complete made up stuff to try and sound like fact. Thats made up assumptions.

bcbronc
04-28-2012, 01:01 PM
so 3 DTs go between picks 36 and 57 (Reyes, Stills, Worthy) and there's at least one report that at least one of those three teams actually had Wolfe at the top of their board, but we should have just waited until RD4 to pick him. This is getting ridiculous.

jhildebrand
04-28-2012, 01:51 PM
Yea, ive seen NOTHING that remotely shows they were planning on taking Martin. Pretty big assumption.

DMAC said there was a big groan and look of defeat in the broncos media draft room just after TB selected Doug Martin with the pick they traded. Denver, the word is, was certain Tampa was going in a different direction. We will never know for sure but Cugel isn't off base in suggesting some of the things he has.


so 3 DTs go between picks 36 and 57 (Reyes, Stills, Worthy) and there's at least one report that at least one of those three teams actually had Wolfe at the top of their board, but we should have just waited until RD4 to pick him. This is getting ridiculous.

Word was San Diego was prepared to take Wolf. Denver wanted no part of that.

I personally like the Wolfe pick. I think many will come around on him pretty quickly. The only question I have is how much of his production is due to a weak Big East.

MOtorboat
04-28-2012, 01:56 PM
DMAC said there was a big groan and look of defeat in the broncos media draft room just after TB selected Doug Martin with the pick they traded. Denver, the word is, was certain Tampa was going in a different direction. We will never know for sure but Cugel isn't off base in suggesting some of the things he has.



Word was San Diego was prepared to take Wolf. Denver wanted no part of that.

I personally like the Wolfe pick. I think many will come around on him pretty quickly. The only question I have is how much of his production is due to a weak Big East.

In the media room. Not the war room.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 02:00 PM
http://walterfootball.com/draft2012RB.php
That is not only assumptions, but complete made up stuff to try and sound like fact. Thats made up assumptions.

Just because YOU'RE not paying attention to what's going on behind the draft and what's being reported in the media and on the radio the last 2 days doesn't mean it isn't true.

Try and keep up to speed! :coffee:

Who do you THINK they were targeting at #31 then? RB was a top need. If you want to get Peyton Manning a second SB ring, maybe the #1 need overall. :coffee:

Despite Elway's saying "best player available" in virtually every sentence, he clearly targeted according to NEED: DT in the first, then QB at #57 (and specifically Osweiler not just any QB), and RB. Then CB and KR/PR which they need because they lost Eddie Royal.

Notice that those were what everybody said all along were the Broncos needs and they drafted every single one? They were naturally looking for an impact player who could step right in and start with their first round pick.

It was widely reported virtually EVERYWHERE that the Broncos liked Dontari Poe (I didn't agree, but that's irrelevant) and Brockers. But, when they were both gone at #14 they traded back to #31.

Then Elway had a press conference last night and admitted that there was a dispute in the war-room about trading back into the 2nd round. Well, they hadn't made their 2nd round picks yet , so it couldn't be about that. Someone, probably Fox didn't want to trade back and Elway & Co. wanted to take the gamble and get another 4th round pick.

It's not a great surprise that they liked RB Doug Martin. He was the consensus #2 RB in the entire draft. An elite combination of blazing speed and size and elusiveness.


Doug Martin, RB, Boise State
Height: 5-9. Weight: 223.
40 Time: 4.47.
Bench: 28.
Vertical: 36. Broad: 10-0.
Arm: 29 7/8. Hand: 9.
Projected Round (2012): 1-2.

4/24/12: Martin has had a strong offseason. He was the most impressive running back at the Senior Bowl and showed the ability to battle defenses as a runner, receiver and blocker. Martin then ran well at the Combine while tying for the lead on the bench press. As expected, he performed well in receiving drills. Martin looks secure as an early second-round pick who could sneak into the first round.

And that's exactly what happened. He's an every down back who would be an immediate impact player who would give Peyton Manning a formidable new weapon.

What's not to love about that guy? A guy who weighs 225 and runs a 4.47 40 with power and is a good blocker and pass-receiver? He'd probably have been the best Broncos RB since Clinton Portis.

They just screwed up in evaluating who the Bucs would pick, that's all. They wanted extra ammo in the fourth to move up and make sure they got a DT -- Wolfe.

Yes, they might even have had to give up several picks to sneak back into the second if it looked like someone would grab him late in the 2nd. With 3 4th rounders and a 3rd rounder they could do that (although it would mean giving up getting a KR/CB in the 4th, but that's a lesser need).

Ravage!!!
04-28-2012, 02:00 PM
In the media room. Not the war room.

exactly. The media guys were hoping for one thing, expecting something, and heard another. Its like if we grouped together a bunch of Message board posters and put them in the room during the draft. YOu would hear cheers and groans at every pick.

bcbronc
04-28-2012, 02:01 PM
I'd be shocked if DEN had no idea who TB was trading up for. Shocked. I'd also be shocked if DEN really really REALLY wanted Martin but didn't think to inquire who TB was moving up for and when everyone figured both TB and NYG would be in the market for a RB. Add STL in there as well. So three teams that everyone figured would be in the mix for a RB but DEN just figured the guy they actually wanted would slip and then were shocked and disappointed when it didn't happen? I dunno, seems like a huge stretch.

Ravage!!!
04-28-2012, 02:03 PM
Just because YOU'RE not paying attention to what's going on behind the draft and what's being reported in the media and on the radio the last 2 days doesn't mean it isn't true.

Try and keep up to speed! :coffee:

Hardly. Dude, you have made nothing but speculation on top of speculation...teamed up with guesses and hopes. NOTHING you have speculated has ANY fact, other than in your head. You have NO IDEA who was targeted, who was on the top of their draft board, or how any of them were rated. You only know what YOU wanted, how YOU rated them, and what YOU were hoping. Then you want to come on here, complain as if YOUR wishes and wants were/are facts and bitch that the FO of the Broncos didn't follow YOUR draft board.

Get over yourself.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 02:04 PM
I'd be shocked if DEN had no idea who TB was trading up for. Shocked. I'd also be shocked if DEN really really REALLY wanted Martin but didn't think to inquire who TB was moving up for and when everyone figured both TB and NYG would be in the market for a RB. Add STL in there as well. So three teams that everyone figured would be in the mix for a RB but DEN just figured the guy they actually wanted would slip and then were shocked and disappointed when it didn't happen? I dunno, seems like a huge stretch.

You can be as shocked as you like. Go back and listen to Elway's press conference last night! He was specifically asked "did you talk about who the Bucs wanted" and he said it wasn't discussed. Apparently he thought he knew what they were doing and was wrong.

Why would he lie about that? They didn't discuss it.

Personally, I have no idea why he wouldn't think the Giants might take Martin, but that's the word. Maybe he knew they liked David Wilson better. And St. Louis was expected to take Coby Fleener or a WR and they decided on Brian Quick which for them was a no brainer.

MOtorboat
04-28-2012, 02:05 PM
You can be as shocked as you like. Go back and listen to Elway's press conference last night! He was specifically asked "did you talk about who the Bucs wanted" and he said it wasn't discussed. Apparently he thought he knew what they were doing and was wrong.

Why would he lie about that? They didn't discuss it.

If he didn't ask Tampa, then he probably wasn't concerned with Martin, which means Denver wasn't targeting Martin, which makes all of your other wild assumptions bunk.

jhildebrand
04-28-2012, 02:07 PM
In the media room. Not the war room.

Which had bronco staff in there. Also, DMAC, if you were listening to the broadcast also offered a great deal of insight as to this hypothesis after Elway spoke to the media! It was also Fox who was originally supposed to address the media and Elway went out instead. I don't really care either way. All I am saying is there is some weight to some of the stuff cugel is arguing.

At the end of the day, I don't really care. I LOVE the Wolfe pick. I like him more than I would have Worthy, Reyes, or anybody else there at that spot. I like the Bolden pick. Phillip Blake I don't know enough about other than to hope he isn't another Baylor C in the mold of Walton. Although it would be funny to see him replace him for a 2nd time. M Jackson. I like that pick.

The only pick I don't care for is the Osweiler pick. I don't see how anyone should have to eat crow though.

Ravage!!!
04-28-2012, 02:08 PM
You can be as shocked as you like. Go back and listen to Elway's press conference last night! He was specifically asked "did you talk about who the Bucs wanted" and he said it wasn't discussed. Apparently he thought he knew what they were doing and was wrong.

Why would he lie about that? They didn't discuss it.

Wait a minute. You think that the answers anyone gives in interviews are the absolute truth in any situation, and you are getting all worked up by taking THAT as your facts and source???? Reallly?

Seems to me what MO just said makes a LOT more sense than your "guess"....

jhildebrand
04-28-2012, 02:11 PM
WE WILL NEVER KNOW. PERIOD. Elway and company aren't ever going to come out and say "we knew at least Kirkpatrick, Brockers, McClelland, or Barron would be there and we were wrong."

I think a lot of teams got caught off guard seeing how defense heavy this draft was.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 02:11 PM
Hardly. Dude, you have made nothing but speculation on top of speculation...teamed up with guesses and hopes. NOTHING you have speculated has ANY fact, other than in your head. You have NO IDEA who was targeted, who was on the top of their draft board, or how any of them were rated. You only know what YOU wanted, how YOU rated them, and what YOU were hoping. Then you want to come on here, complain as if YOUR wishes and wants were/are facts and bitch that the FO of the Broncos didn't follow YOUR draft board.

Get over yourself.

Do you really think I came up with all this stuff myself? :laugh:

I just decided that the Broncos were targeting Martin? I didn't even want a RB in the first at all! My board would have been to take Jerel Worthy at #31. Hell, I'd have grabbed him at #25 and have done with it. Just on principle I don't like taking a RB in the first unless you're SURE he's going to be the next L.T. and even then I'd be nervous.

I don't pretend to know enough about the draft to know what the inside story is about who teams are targeting! This stuff has all been reported in the media. And I didn't come up with ANY of it myself!

Maybe it's wrong, but it doesn't sound like it. Didn't you notice that Elway seemed down at his presser last night. Not just tired by depressed? Something happened there. And it will probably be reported in the print media in the next few days.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 02:14 PM
WE WILL NEVER KNOW. PERIOD. Elway and company aren't ever going to come out and say "we knew at least Kirkpatrick, Brockers, McClelland, or Barron would be there and we were wrong."

I think a lot of teams got caught off guard seeing how defense heavy this draft was.

We probably will know in the next few days/weeks. Perhaps not in this case because to trade your pick to another team that then takes your guy is a screw up that is embarrassing and they might not want to admit it.

But, Shanahan used to tell who he was targeting in the first round after the draft, and he was the most paranoid draft guy in the NFL! You NEVER heard a peep out of his camp prior to the draft about who he was targeting (until this year of course, they could hardly hide that they traded up for RGIII).

For example Shanny stated that he was targeting DT Justin Harrell and Jarvis Moss, but when Harrell was taken by Green Bay (total bust BTW) Shanny panicked and felt that Moss, who was the last guy on his 1st round board, might not make it to #21. So he made the trade to move up to #17. Remember that one?

We hear about who teams were targeting all the time.

Tned
04-28-2012, 02:15 PM
If people are going to constantly spew their ignorance about Denver's refusal to address the DT position, they should man up and admit that they didn't really know what the hell they were talking about. I don't really expect anyone to though.

Then why did you start another one of your infamous "rub it in their face" threads?

jhildebrand
04-28-2012, 02:15 PM
I think one thing became extremely clear: this theory that their draft board was the same at 36 as it was at 25. Maybe technically that is true in the sense they had the draft board and it was the same exact one. Or maybe it was the same as far as guys left available at that point. Nobody can convince me the Broncos had D Wolfe, as much as I like him, targeted as their first selection. I genuinely believe the Broncos were caught off guard. They said they were prepared. So much so that they went golfing the day before the 1st round when other teams were still plugging away.

Ravage!!!
04-28-2012, 02:17 PM
Do you really think I came up with all this stuff myself? :laugh:

I just decided that the Broncos were targeting Martin? I didn't even want a RB in the first at all! My board would have been to take Jerel Worthy at #31. Hell, I'd have grabbed him at #25 and have done with it.

I don't pretend to know enough about the draft to know what the inside story is about who teams are targeting! This stuff has all been reported in the media. And I didn't come up with ANY of it myself!

Maybe it's wrong, but it doesn't sound like it. Didn't you notice that Elway seemed down at his presser last night. Not just tired by depressed? Something happened there. And it will probably be reported in the print media in the next few days.

Hmmm.. I don't know. I don't think Elway is going to wear his heart on his sleeve like that. Shefter reported that we were going to trade out of the first round long before it happened. As far as Elway looking "depressed".... I'm not going to read into that at all because thats just something you read when you are looking for it. I think you were looking for it, and thats what you saw. So I just don 't hold much clout into the "reading his body language" thing.

I just think that you (or whomever you are reading) is doing a LOT of speculating and guessing, and throwing out observations and "rumors".. and building everything around a story they have in their head. Just like reading body language. I can build a lot of scenarios to "fit" what I already think.

Ravage!!!
04-28-2012, 02:21 PM
I think one thing became extremely clear: this theory that their draft board was the same at 36 as it was at 25. Maybe technically that is true in the sense they had the draft board and it was the same exact one. Or maybe it was the same as far as guys left available at that point. Nobody can convince me the Broncos had D Wolfe, as much as I like him, targeted as their first selection. I genuinely believe the Broncos were caught off guard. They said they were prepared. So much so that they went golfing the day before the 1st round when other teams were still plugging away.

Many CEOs and companies will take a relaxing day, the day prior to a stressful event purely to get the mind back at ease when its needed. I have no problems with them playing golf the day before. Good for them.

As far as Wolfe. I don't think its hard to believe that they had him rated higher than many here...or many of the draft-nicks did. Mayock and Kiper both talked that they believed Wolfe to be HIGHER underrated and believed him to be a first round talent. So if they believe him to be a first round talent, then its not really hard to fathom that the FO felt Wolfe was better than most felt/ranked, and could still get him...even after dropping out of the first. So I don't think the Broncos were caught off guard in the least.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 02:23 PM
In the media room. Not the war room.

Actually the Broncos War-Room was on the screen at the time, so I'm assuming also that it was the Broncos war room.

Look, after this story came out I started checking out Martin more closely and you have to like him. But, before the draft I certainly wasn't thinking the Broncos might take a RB with their #1 pick!

DT, CB, RB in the 2nd or third is how I saw things. I probably would have done exactly what they did do in the end, move up in the third and get a change of pace RB like Hillman.

So, don't pretend this is all some crap that I dreamed up because I wanted Martin. I wasn't focused on him before the draft at all, because I assumed he'd be gone by the Broncos pick in the 2nd and didn't want a 1st round RB under any circumstances.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 02:29 PM
DMAC said there was a big groan and look of defeat in the broncos media draft room just after TB selected Doug Martin with the pick they traded. Denver, the word is, was certain Tampa was going in a different direction. We will never know for sure but Cugel isn't off base in suggesting some of the things he has.

Word was San Diego was prepared to take Wolf. Denver wanted no part of that.

I personally like the Wolfe pick. I think many will come around on him pretty quickly. The only question I have is how much of his production is due to a weak Big East.

I never heard that San Diego was targeting Wolfe at #49. They took Reyes there. Wolfe would have been a surprise pick there for sure. Of course it's possibly true and we just haven't heard it yet.

But, if it was, then the Broncos could NEVER have drafted Wolfe and would have had to take another DT under their original plan, since they would never have taken him at #31 and he would (in this scenario) be gone in the mid 2nd before even Denver's #57 pick (which they always intended to use on Osweiler anyway -- that was certainly locked in stone).

You can see that the main problem with the Broncos draft plans was the decision to draft Osweiler. That made it very tough to maneuver to get all their other picks in the right order.

(For instance, if the Broncos thought San Diego would take Wolfe at #49 and they wanted him that badly they could always have moved up ahead of them from their #57 pick and traded probably their late 4th or 5th rounder to do it). But, that #57 pick was locked into Osweiler so they couldn't do that.

Cugel
04-28-2012, 02:36 PM
If he didn't ask Tampa, then he probably wasn't concerned with Martin, which means Denver wasn't targeting Martin, which makes all of your other wild assumptions bunk.

Once again, they aren't MY wild assumptions. :rolleyes:

What makes you think that the Bucs want to tell the truth in that situation anyway? Do they want the entire league to know who they're targeting in case they CAN'T make the trade?

It's bad enough that everybody can guess anyway if word gets out they were talking to the Broncos, they don't need to confirm it by telling the Broncos all their plans!

BroncoWave
04-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Then why did you start another one of your infamous "rub it in their face" threads?

Stupid statements should be called out. And when people have been screaming at the top of their lungs that EFX is ignoring DT and doesn't find it important and won't draft it high, they should be called out for that ignorance.

nevcraw
04-28-2012, 02:48 PM
Dude if you have all the answers why for the love all things good and mighty aren't making 6 figs. with some NFL team and not hanging with us po foke?

oh wait you don't.. or maybe they just couldn't the brilliance behind the madness.

judging a draft as it is happening is redic.

TXBRONC
04-28-2012, 02:51 PM
Then why did you start another one of your infamous "rub it in their face" threads?

Imo it's rather inmature.

Nomad
04-28-2012, 02:52 PM
Dude if you have all the answers why for the love all things good and mighty aren't making 6 figs. with some NFL team and not hanging with us po foke?

oh wait you don't.. or maybe they just couldn't the brilliance behind the madness.

judging a draft as it is happening is redic.


To be fair....BTB is the only person I've seen on the boards work for an NFL team.:nod:

BroncoWave
04-28-2012, 02:55 PM
To be fair....BTB is the only person I've seen on the boards work for an NFL team.:nod:

I thought his post was directed at Cugel. If it was directed at me though, I've never claimed to have all the answers. All I've said is that it's stupid and ridiculous to claim that an NFL team is completely ignoring a position and wouldn't use a high draft pick on it if the right player was there.

Nomad
04-28-2012, 03:00 PM
I thought his post was directed at Cugel. If it was directed at me though, I've never claimed to have all the answers. All I've said is that it's stupid and ridiculous to claim that an NFL team is completely ignoring a position and wouldn't use a high draft pick on it if the right player was there.

Just saying BTB, don't get defensive. I don't know of anyone who has worked with any NFL team on this board....you probably know how a team works just as good as anyone here.

I was one who has been disappointed in the BRONCOS lack of effort to get a DT in the draft over the years especially a 1st rd prospect.

claymore
04-28-2012, 03:02 PM
DMAC said there was a big groan and look of defeat in the broncos media draft room just after TB selected Doug Martin with the pick they traded. Denver, the word is, was certain Tampa was going in a different direction. We will never know for sure but Cugel isn't off base in suggesting some of the things he has.


Word was San Diego was prepared to take Wolf. Denver wanted no part of that.

I personally like the Wolfe pick. I think many will come around on him pretty quickly. The only question I have is how much of his production is due to a weak Big East.

If thats the case Im sure they learned a valuable lesson. Its only their second draft together. Pats have the best run Org in a long time and its success hinges on one player. Someone they lucked into in the 6th round.

claymore
04-28-2012, 03:04 PM
To be fair....BTB is the only person I've seen on the boards work for an NFL team.:nod:

Well he isnt. :D

BroncoWave
04-28-2012, 03:06 PM
Just saying BTB, don't get defensive. I don't know of anyone who has worked with any NFL team on this board....you probably know how a team works just as good as anyone here.

I was one who has been disappointed in the BRONCOS lack of effort to get a DT in the draft over the years especially a 1st rd prospect.

I don't even claim my experience with the Saints as something that validates my opinion, but thanks for the compliment! I just think it's common sense that a team wouldn't flat out ignore a position.

jhildebrand
04-28-2012, 03:39 PM
If thats the case Im sure they learned a valuable lesson. Its only their second draft together. Pats have the best run Org in a long time and its success hinges on one player. Someone they lucked into in the 6th round.

Well said.

Call me crazy but I have the feeling that, at the end of the coming season, if this draft doesn't look too well that it will be Xanders' last with the broncos

jhildebrand
04-28-2012, 03:44 PM
I never heard that San Diego was targeting Wolfe at #49. They took Reyes there. Wolfe would have been a surprise pick there for sure. Of course it's possibly true and we just haven't heard it yet.

It was on the air just after the Wolfe pick was announced. Dmac and Al went over it. I heard it again late last night as well.

Like you, I don't like the Osweiler pick. I think they pidgeonholed themselves with it. Let's hope Elway can work with him and knows what he sees.

BroncoStud
04-28-2012, 04:01 PM
Actually before the draft NFL.com had him ranked as a LATE round prospect with limited upside, and he didn't crack Mayock's top 75...

He was a reach and an overreaction, period. Only rampant HOMERS would think the Broncos drafted good value. Missed out on Martin, panicked with Brock, just underwhelming. They may turn out effective players but the round value was poor. Elway got schooled a bit in this draft, I'm sure he will get better with time.

SpringsBroncoFan
04-28-2012, 04:18 PM
I don't know about the Martin stuff... maybe that will come out if there's anything to it...

But, as far as Wolfe goes... I do believe SD would have taken Wolfe too over Reyes... Parcells had Wolfe as a 2nd rounder & Reyes as a 3rd...

And as far as NFL.com rankings go don't they do them early and then stop?

Ravage!!!
04-28-2012, 04:24 PM
Actually before the draft NFL.com had him ranked as a LATE round prospect with limited upside, and he didn't crack Mayock's top 75...

He was a reach and an overreaction, period. Only rampant HOMERS would think the Broncos drafted good value. Missed out on Martin, panicked with Brock, just underwhelming. They may turn out effective players but the round value was poor. Elway got schooled a bit in this draft, I'm sure he will get better with time.

So you are basing this purely off someone else's rankings... when those rankings have NOTHING to do with how the team ranked the players. Not to mention, speculating on who they really did want, and then throwing out BS about how they reacted...period.

I'm going to do the same thing. Mayock said, that he felt Wolfe was a late first round talent. So did Kiper. Both said that Wolfe seemed to be overlooked during the process of the combine. Only those that feel THEIR choices were ignored, would feel strongly enough to complain, and moan, and groan about drafting a player they didn't want over someone else.