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Den21vsBal19
05-03-2009, 03:18 AM
Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12281980)


These are the times that have tried Pat Bowlen's soul. The past 4 1/2 months have been the most tumultuous in the quarter-century reign of the Denver Broncos' owner. He has fired, hired and traded and celebrated his 65th birthday and his 25th anniversary as an owner.

What will May bring for Patrick Dennis Bowlen?

In a wide-ranging exclusive interview, his first since a chaotic series of events began in mid-December, the Broncos' owner and CEO declares:

• Even now, he doesn't understand why former quarterback Jay Cutler wouldn't return his calls and wanted out of Denver.

• The Broncos will "probably not" win the Super Bowl next season.

• He would have preferred that the Broncos had drafted more defensive players last weekend.

• He has not spoken to Mike Shanahan since he fired him.

• He has turned over additional organizational responsibilities to chief operating officer Joe Ellis.

• He has "absolutely" no plans to sell the franchise.

• His new coach, Josh McDaniels, committed "rookie mistakes," but he fully supports him and is growing more assured he will be outstanding in the long term.

• His health "is good," but he has experienced "short-term memory loss" in recent months.

Bowlen is the longest-tenured, and most successful, owner in the history of Denver's major-league sports franchises. His teams have won two Super Bowls and five conference championships. During his ownership, the Broncos have moved into a new stadium, originated the Ring of Fame, donated tens of millions of dollars to charities and the University of Denver, changed the dominant color of the uniforms, extended the home sellout streak to 40 years, built a new headquarters and become one of the winningest teams in the NFL.

But Bowlen's reputation has taken a hit of late because of the Broncos' devastating decline the past three seasons that led to his firing Shanahan and hiring McDaniels, and the circus that became known as McJay Gate involving Cutler.

Nevertheless, Bowlen said: "I'm rejuvenated. I haven't been in this position for quite a while."

Not afraid of risks

Bowlen is a high-risk/high-reward guy who acknowledges he was influenced by his father, who earned his fortune as an oil wildcatter. After getting a law degree and becoming an attorney, Bowlen joined his father's business, then extended his holdings into real estate and, at age 40, professional football.

"People will say I was lucky. I think I've always taken calculated risks," Bowlen said. "In this business, you have to take risks on players and coaches. There's been a lot of that going on lately, but I feel good about the risks I've taken."

Bowlen's presence has never been more pronounced than it was during the Cutler saga. Bowlen eventually ordered that Cutler be traded after the quarterback spurned his request to talk about differences he had with McDaniels, who had discussions with other teams about possibly trading Cutler.

"Honestly, I still don't know what happened with Jay. I don't want to throw him under the bus, but I made two phone calls (and there is proof, Broncos executives claim) and left voice mails with my cell number and asked him to call me, and he didn't," Bowlen said. "I don't do e-mails. If Jay had called and said he thought the coach was (not a nice person) and he wanted out of here, I would have said, 'Let's work this out.' But I heard nothing directly from him.
"Pick up the phone! That's where we got off the rails. We had no other choice but to trade him. If (the trade talk) was the reason Jay left, he should have left."

Bowlen is pleased with the quarterback, Kyle Orton, and the draft picks the Broncos got in return from Chicago, but when told many were puzzled why McDaniels didn't choose more defensive players in the recent draft, Bowlen replied:

"Me, too."

But, he backed the draft plan of his coach and general manager Brian Xanders. "I hired them to do their jobs," he said. "I believe in them. It's not my role to evaluate players and make those draft decisions. I'm not qualified to do it."

Practically every season, Bowlen proclaims that the Broncos will win the Super Bowl. That's part optimism, part foolishness, part humor and, at times, strong conviction. But he's not doing so this year.

"Win the Super Bowl? Probably not. But if we lose our first two games — and that's a possibility — I'm not going to panic. I'm in this to win Super Bowls, and we're going to get back (there). I'm more patient than I used to be, but I'm going to give Josh an opportunity to succeed."

Continuing with strong effort

Bowlen hasn't shied away from spending millions on signing bonuses in recent years, and many of those players were busts. But he said he'll continue to make every effort to put the best team possible on the field.

"We've wanted to be right 100 percent of the time," he said. "Maybe we've been right 50 percent. We've made mistakes. But I've always been willing to spend what it takes to try to get players to help this team get to the Super Bowl and not fall to the bottom of the food chain.

"I'm not in this for money. I make enough to keep my family very comfortable."

There have been hints Bowlen has fallen into serious debt in the aftermath of wasting money on free agents who didn't pan out, combined with the severe economic downturn, his investment in the stadium, and the $21 million still due Shanahan, as well as guarantees to fired assistant coaches. He is not among the richest NFL owners, and a majority of his income is football-based. The Broncos also laid off several employees last year. But he said the franchise is in stable financial shape.

"If I wanted to make a fortune, I'd sell the team," he said. "But I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing, and we're fine financially." (Fortune magazine valued the Broncos at $1 billion last year.)

Bowlen and his wife, Annabel, have five children, but the Broncos' owner said none has expressed "aspirations about running a football team."

Bowlen said that while he is involved in every facet of the organization, Ellis, his confidant, has been given more power in the restructuring since Shanahan was fired. "Joe is handling all the things I'm not particularly interested in, making more major decisions," he said.

Ellis, who was director of marketing when Bowlen bought the majority ownership of the Broncos in 1984, has served in several executive capacities. He was named COO last year. Ellis, several sources say, was instrumental in getting Bowlen to agree to fire Shanahan, hire McDaniels (Ellis alone met with the new coach for a second interview) and trade Cutler.

As for his health, Bowlen said he is not slowing down or slacking off. "My health is excellent, for a guy my age, although I'm not going to do any more triathlons."

The owner paused and said: "I have short-term memory loss. I know that some of the memories of the Super Bowl championships are fading."

Asked if he was concerned about the memory loss worsening, Bowlen said:

"Not really. It comes with age."

Bowlen is seeking new memories. "I love what I'm doing. I'm enjoying this offseason more than I have in a long time."

WARHORSE
05-03-2009, 03:50 AM
Lets hope the short term memory loss is short term.

Superchop 7
05-03-2009, 10:18 AM
I've been pissed at Pat and Joe Ellis for awhile now. (Told you guys it was Joe Ellis pulling the strings)

But, I do give Pat respect for speaking his mind about the draft.

We have seen too many drafts concentrate on the wrong side of the ball, it was a relief to hear Pat voice an honest opinion. (instead of a sales job)

All I can say is that McKid better take warning.......Pat doesn't say things like that very often......you had better hit it out of the park at NT/DE/ILB on June 1.

Or before.

Your owner was cussing on draft day just like the rest of us.

He has to answer to friends, neighbors, family, fans on a daily basis now with everyone looking at him asking WTF?

Do you really think he will put up with that for long ?

Your leash is shorter than you think.

Tned
05-03-2009, 10:38 AM
At least Bowlen can see and admit what some fans get hostile when you bring up:


His new coach, Josh McDaniels, committed "rookie mistakes," but he fully supports him and is growing more assured he will be outstanding in the long term.

Nomad
05-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Looks like Ellis was instrumental in firing Shanahan and trading Cutler.

Krugan
05-03-2009, 10:49 AM
Its all a big plan to have this team sold to someone else and moved to a bigger market.

Yes, my tinfoil hat fits well.

But it does disturb me that Pat is having issues with memory. Not a good sign at any point.

Ravage!!!
05-03-2009, 10:54 AM
Its all a big plan to have this team sold to someone else and moved to a bigger market.

Yes, my tinfoil hat fits well.

But it does disturb me that Pat is having issues with memory. Not a good sign at any point.

I think the memory comment was a joke.. meaning the memories of the superbowls aren't keeping his patience as they once did.

turftoad
05-03-2009, 11:13 AM
As to the thread title, he had better be shaken. He has no choice right now but to back his rookie HC. I wonder what he really thinks in the back of his mind.

Tned
05-03-2009, 11:35 AM
I think the memory comment was a joke.. meaning the memories of the superbowls aren't keeping his patience as they once did.

In context, he made a joke of it. However, after firing Shanahan he said he talked to Jay, then a month or so later, he said he didn't remember talking to Jay since he fired Shanahan. I think the memory loss might be real.

Dean
05-03-2009, 12:09 PM
Possibly Pat is having short term memory loss, but at 65 I doubt it. Maybe it was a joke. Maybe he was caught in a lie that had been duely recorded and he was trying to give himself an out.

If it is the first case I listed, then there is reason to be anxious about the leadership of the Broncos organization.

If it was the second, then its no biggie.

If it is the third, then Pat has a clue why Jay wouldn't answer his calls.

Pat will probably fade into the background once again and we won't ever know what he meant. The organization has never been open about what is taking place and in several ways that is desirable. I am surprised that Pat made any mention about the draft or about mistakes. Those types of comments are as rare as hens' teeth.

Broncolingus
05-03-2009, 12:13 PM
Its all a big plan to have this team sold to someone else and moved to a bigger market.



Uhh...what? Bigger market?

Tned
05-03-2009, 12:13 PM
Pat will probably fade into the background once again and we won't ever know what he meant. The organization has never been open about what is taking place and in several ways that is desirable. I am surprised that Pat made any mention about the draft or about mistakes. Those types of comments are as rare as hens' teeth.

I'm guessing (which is all any of us can do) that he felt it necessary, because to all but those following with blind faith or in the ABM crowd (anyone but Mikey), it is crystal clear that McDaniels has made rookie HC mistakes.

Krugan
05-03-2009, 12:27 PM
Uhh...what? Bigger market?

I guess you missed, or chose, to not read the tinfoil hat comment.

I dont post often, and most of the times its due to the general public only reading bits and pieces of what is typed and then making comments about it.

But if you want to go there, it seems LA would like to have a team again. Im sure there would be other "larger" cities that would be capable of supporting a NFL franchise, but im not going reach that far.

T.K.O.
05-03-2009, 12:44 PM
the LA broncos ? i'm gonna be sick....
i know it was in jest i hope
bowlen is widely considered one of the best owners in the game,we are lucky to have a guy who does his best to field a competetive team year in and year out.
i believe him when he says its not all about the $$$
he's a successful businessman who i believe really wants to see his team do well 'because its fun for him as it is for us fans.
i'm glad we dont have a medeling jaggazz like davis or jones prowling the sidelines looking like a redfaced brat when things dont go his way !

honz
05-03-2009, 01:03 PM
The Las Vegas Broncos...2012.

T.K.O.
05-03-2009, 01:07 PM
The Las Vegas Broncos...2012.

las vegas has the highest foreclosure rate in the country right now and who would put up a giant stadium on land that could be turned into another much needed casino ?
i mean all those people losing their homes have to have some way to recoup their losses.:confused:

Tned
05-03-2009, 01:12 PM
las vegas has the highest foreclosure rate in the country right now and who would put up a giant stadium on land that could be turned into another much needed casino ?
i mean all those people losing their homes have to have some way to recoup their losses.:confused:

I don't know if it is true, but I have previously heard that the NFL had concerns about putting a franchise in Vegas, due to the fact that is where the sports books are. The theory, true or not I don't know, that there would be a higher risk of game fixing.

dogfish
05-03-2009, 01:12 PM
• He would have preferred that the Broncos had drafted more defensive players last weekend.


well gee, pat, maybe when you were conducting interviews you should have looked for a defensive-minded head coach who would come in and fix our biggest weakness, deal with the eight-hundred pound gorilla in the room and leave the offense alone aside from a few tweaks like adding a quality running back. . . .


just a thought. . . . :coffee:

honz
05-03-2009, 01:14 PM
well gee, pat, maybe when you were conducting interviews you should have looked for a defensive-minded head coach who would come in and fix our biggest weakness, deal with the eight-hundred pound gorilla in the room and leave the offense alone aside from a few tweaks like adding a quality running back. . . .


just a thought. . . . :coffee:

Don't bold part of your posts.

TIA

;):D

T.K.O.
05-03-2009, 01:36 PM
aside from a few tweaks like adding a quality running back. . . .


just a thought. . . . :coffee:

so you agree with what mcD's doing ?

Hobe
05-03-2009, 01:45 PM
well gee, pat, maybe when you were conducting interviews you should have looked for a defensive-minded head coach who would come in and fix our biggest weakness, deal with the eight-hundred pound gorilla in the room and leave the offense alone aside from a few tweaks like adding a quality running back. . . .

just a thought. . . . :coffee:

Frankly, I think Bowlen is an offensively minded owner. That is why he and Shanny got on so well for so long. Under Shanny the defense has be either stagnate or declining. It fell off the cliff about three years ago and forced Bowlen to reconsider. When Shanny wasn't willing to move in another direction, he got the axe.

BroncoTech
05-03-2009, 01:55 PM
One of our memories is going bad because I distinctly remember Pat saying 'Jay is the man' the day he fired Shanny.

Broncogator
05-03-2009, 02:10 PM
The Las Vegas Broncos...2012.

I just threw up in my mouth a little...:(

OrangeHoof
05-03-2009, 02:37 PM
Its all a big plan to have this team sold to someone else and moved to a bigger market.

Yes, my tinfoil hat fits well.

Umm, I doubt it. Other than Los Angeles, there is no bigger market to go to and L.A. has shown for the past 15 years that they don't really want pro football (besides, they already have pro football - it's called the USC Trojans).

Bowlen may have eyes on selling but I can't imagine the team leaving Denver. If they did, there would be other team owners looking to fill the void.

OrangeHoof
05-03-2009, 02:42 PM
I don't know if it is true, but I have previously heard that the NFL had concerns about putting a franchise in Vegas, due to the fact that is where the sports books are. The theory, true or not I don't know, that there would be a higher risk of game fixing.

Pete Rozelle was adamant about not having an NFL game, much less a team, in Vegas because of the gambling aspect. Tags pretty much agreed. Goody 2 Shoes may see it differently, particularly if he can be convinced that Las Vegas is in a foreign country.

Broncolingus
05-03-2009, 02:44 PM
I guess you missed, or chose, to not read the tinfoil hat comment.

I dont post often, and most of the times its due to the general public only reading bits and pieces of what is typed and then making comments about it.

But if you want to go there, it seems LA would like to have a team again. Im sure there would be other "larger" cities that would be capable of supporting a NFL franchise, but im not going reach that far.

I read it all, dude...

Denver is a top-5 NFL franchise (net worth, marketing, fan support, etc.)...it would take decades of poor play before they'd relocate...there are a dozen teams that would fit that bill for LA, Las Vegas, etc. right now.

...even then, probably wouldn't happen.

OrangeHoof
05-03-2009, 02:53 PM
Under Shanny the defense has be either stagnate or declining. It fell off the cliff about three years ago and forced Bowlen to reconsider. When Shanny wasn't willing to move in another direction, he got the axe.

Other than switching to the 3-4 (which is the gimmick they are trying now), what did Shanny not do to try to rebuild the defense? Sign big-money free agents? He tried that. Trade for top defenders? Did that. Used his top draft picks on defenders? Did that. Fired and hired defensive coordinators? Did that too.

Even under Greg Robinson, the defense under Shanahan was never that great and it was partly because Shanahan wasn't a defensive coach. His ticket was offense. It became obvious that Shanahan didn't know how to fix the defense because everything he tried to do to fix it ultimately failed.

Which makes it all the more puzzling that Bowlen chose another offensive coach to replace Shanahan with. If he kept the offense like it was and brought aboard somebody like Rex Ryan as the new head coach, I think we still have a happy Cutler in town and are miles ahead of where we are now with regard to fixing the defense.

I think *that's* where the short-term memory loss comes from. Bowlen forgot the reason we lost so many games was from a bad defense, not from the offense. Now he's got a coach that's trying to rebuild the entire subway system instead of fixing the bad stretch of track that was the problem.

Krugan
05-03-2009, 02:55 PM
I read it all, dude...

Denver is a top-5 NFL franchise (net worth, marketing, fan support, etc.)...it would take decades of poor play before they'd relocate...there are a dozen teams that would fit that bill for LA, Las Vegas, etc. right now.

...even then, probably wouldn't happen.

Wow, the tinfoil hat comment doesnt even start to cast a bit of thought into that I was being sarcastic?

(this isnt directed towards just you)

DenBronx
05-03-2009, 02:57 PM
Bowlen and his wife, Annabel, have five children, but the Broncos' owner said none has expressed "aspirations about running a football team."


why in the hell not? if i was his kid id be all over that. that would be the ultimate dream job. i wonder if they really just dont want the stress of running a football team?

Broncolingus
05-03-2009, 03:01 PM
Wow, the tinfoil hat comment doesnt even start to cast a bit of thought into that I was being sarcastic?

(this isnt directed towards just you)

I got it, bud...all is good.

There's been more than a few over the past several years who've seriously broached that subject...

Must be too much Oliver Stone or something...

- peace -

OrangeHoof
05-03-2009, 03:08 PM
"Win the Super Bowl? Probably not. But if we lose our first two games — and that's a possibility — I'm not going to panic."

Umm, Pat. Those first two games are at Cincy and home to Cleveland. Expect some panic if we lose those two.

Dean
05-03-2009, 03:52 PM
You're right. That at first glance appears to be the easy part of the schedule. Lose those and watch out. There will be a mushroom cloud where this board used to be.

56crash
05-03-2009, 05:18 PM
I've been pissed at Pat and Joe Ellis for awhile now. (Told you guys it was Joe Ellis pulling the strings)

But, I do give Pat respect for speaking his mind about the draft.

We have seen too many drafts concentrate on the wrong side of the ball, it was a relief to hear Pat voice an honest opinion. (instead of a sales job)

All I can say is that McKid better take warning.......Pat doesn't say things like that very often......you had better hit it out of the park at NT/DE/ILB on June 1.

Or before.

Your owner was cussing on draft day just like the rest of us.

He has to answer to friends, neighbors, family, fans on a daily basis now with everyone looking at him asking WTF?

Do you really think he will put up with that for long ?

Your leash is shorter than you think.

Dood you are being played LOL

goodCop bad Cop

these guys know I am really pissed off and are trying like hell to make a good Cop so I will spend money on this turd ! like Pat could not send Ellis down to talk to Cutler I am not that silly I hope people are not that damn dumb !

Lonestar
05-03-2009, 05:25 PM
Sounded like a good chat to me.. with no reason to panic.. like some of the chicken littles have been doing since the end of the last season..

Sounds like Pat was not thinking hard about firing mike, but Ellis made him see the light sounds like I need to send him the thank you note..

we all know that mikey had to go especially after saying slowick would be back..

For an offensive genius one would think he would be able to reverse engineer the defense.. to see what the problems were.. but I guess he had genius block there..

I saw nothing in that article that came off as Josh is on a short leash actually I saw just the opposite.. that he was not going to panic, even if we lost the first two games..

Sounds like he has more common sense and patience than most fans do..:salute:

56crash
05-03-2009, 05:50 PM
Sounded like a good chat to me.. with no reason to panic.. like some of the chicken littles have been doing since the end of the last season..

Sounds like Pat was not thinking hard about firing mike, but Ellis made him see the light sounds like I need to send him the thank you note..

we all know that mikey had to go especially after saying slowick would be back..

For an offensive genius one would think he would be able to reverse engineer the defense.. to see what the problems were.. but I guess he had genius block there..

I saw nothing in that article that came off as Josh is on a short leash actually I saw just the opposite.. that he was not going to panic, even if we lost the first two games..

Sounds like he has more common sense and patience than most fans do..:salute:

Yep tell him run the thing cheap as hell and squeeze every penny out of the chumps

hotcarl
05-03-2009, 05:56 PM
Yep tell him run the thing cheap as hell and sqwees every penny out of the chumps

you dont have to watch. why dont you go find a new hobby if you are so saddled with debt incurred by this oppressive franchise.

*farts*

Ravage!!!
05-03-2009, 06:00 PM
For an offensive genius one would think he would be able to reverse engineer the defense.. to see what the problems were.. but I guess he had genius block there..



Funny. If I put this quote in another thread, I would have sworn you were talking about our draft....

Lonestar
05-03-2009, 06:16 PM
Funny. If I put this quote in another thread, I would have sworn you were talking about our draft....

I was just saying he should be able to reverse engineer the defense maybe that was what he was trying to do with slowick implementing it..

There seems to be a writers block for lack of a better phrase..

He was great at dissecting other folks defenses to skewer them with great offense.. why not reverse the process..

Never figured that one out..

Have you not noticed the newer and more gentle JR about mike..:D

Cugel
05-03-2009, 07:09 PM
There was, surprisingly, some actual information in that interview!


• His new coach, Josh McDaniels, committed "rookie mistakes," but he fully supports him and is growing more assured he will be outstanding in the long term.



"Win the Super Bowl? Probably not. But if we lose our first two games — and that's a possibility — I'm not going to panic. I'm in this to win Super Bowls, and we're going to get back (there). I'm more patient than I used to be, but I'm going to give Josh an opportunity to succeed."


Translation: "I know Josh screwed up. I'm not stupid. By late November the fans are likely to be rioting at Investco and burning Josh McDaniels in effigy. But, what can I do? I have to support my rookie Head Coach, or I look like a total fool for hiring him in the first place! Besides, once the deal for Cassel fell through Cutler should have just shut up and accepted it instead of forcing a trade.

I know that the team is actually worse right now than they were last year. I want to give Josh a fair chance, but BOY he'd better perform in 2010 or else! That means playoff berth in 2010 or I'm firing his sorry ass! I fired Wade Phillips after two seasons and you can bet that two losing seasons are all that Josh gets!"

I guess that Bowlen is a LOT less happy than he's admitting, or else his mental condition is a lot worse than he's making it out to be.


Bowlen is seeking new memories. "I love what I'm doing. I'm enjoying this offseason more than I have in a long time."


That is a VERY strange quote! Either he's flat lying or else he's in total denial! By any objective measure this off-season has been the worst in recent Broncos history.

Or he really felt oppressed by Mike Shanahan's presence and feels liberated just to get rid of him.


"Pick up the phone! That's where we got off the rails. We had no other choice but to trade him. If (the trade talk) was the reason Jay left, he should have left."

This is normal self-justification. It's all after the fact and NONE of it explains the simple question: "What the Hell was McDaniels doing trying to trade Jay Cutler in the first place?"

It was clearly NOT just "trade talk." You don't have "trade talks" about your franchise QB. You don't see teams having "trade talks" about Tom Brady or Phillip Rivers, or Drew Brees or Ben Rothlisberger or Eli or Peyton Manning or Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan or Aaron Rogers (or probably) Donovan McNabb.

Their teams wouldn't entertain such talks for a second. So, this simply comes down to the fact that McDaniels thought that he was UPGRADING the team by trading Cutler for Matt Cassel, even up.

Everything that happened after that was an afterthought.

Well, we'll see. The fact that the trade fell through allowed McDaniels to pretend he never seriously intended to trade Cutler for Cassel, even though everybody knows differently.

Pat can spin with the best of them, but that doesn't mean McDaniels isn't on a short leash. He's hoping for the best, but McDaniels better win soon. Not this year. Bowlen is resigned to the Broncos sucking in 2009. But by 2010 at the latest.

Cugel
05-03-2009, 07:17 PM
"Win the Super Bowl? Probably not. But if we lose our first two games — and that's a possibility — I'm not going to panic."

Umm, Pat. Those first two games are at Cincy and home to Cleveland. Expect some panic if we lose those two.

Translation from Bowlen-speak into English:


"I know the team is likely to suck in 2009. We've had a lot of transition and are facing a murderous schedule. I know that Josh screwed up here.

And I know that if the team gets off to a slow start the fans will be rioting, the sports-talk airwaves will be burning up with McDaniels-hate and sports-commentators laughing their heads off about the demise of my team.

It's going to get ugly. But, if the team goes on an extended losing streak, I'm just going to hunker down in the Dove Valley Bunker and wait it out.

I can't panic and make a sudden move in mid-season! I have to give Josh a chance to succeed, and that means at least 2 seasons to get things turned around.

So, no matter how bad things get in 2009, I'm going to have his back.

And then we'll see next year. Wade Phillips got two years to prove himself and so will McDaniels."

How's that for a translation? :laugh:

56crash
05-04-2009, 01:23 AM
you dont have to watch. why dont you go find a new hobby if you are so saddled with debt incurred by this oppressive franchise.

*farts*

so you will eat all this I am old BS up ? he is playing you and you like that Idea ?

I can be a broncos fan and have an Idea that this pat guy might be just a tad smarter than the tool is making himself out to be ! he got by the SF49ers guards and hired Shanahan durring SB celbrations if you want to belive all that BS that is your right but don't be a fan police I think you actuly just broke a new rule ! :laugh:

this was the plan all along they been watching NE winning spendig the min bucks and thought time to get that going . but this has been a mess .

so because I don't agree with cold carl I am not a broncos fan :lol:

OrangeHoof
05-04-2009, 03:02 PM
"Wade Phillips got two years to prove himself and so will McDaniels."

And how did that work out for the Broncos? They weren't a success until they fired Phillips, right?

T.K.O.
05-04-2009, 03:34 PM
"Wade Phillips got two years to prove himself and so will McDaniels."

And how did that work out for the Broncos? They weren't a success until they fired Phillips, right?

what does that have to do with anything?
are people really already comparing mcD to phillips?
thats crazy,the guy has'nt coached a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the owner stated he is more excited about whats happening this year than in a while! thats cool!
the players have said that workouts and mini camp have been better and more competitive etc... sure some of what we fans hear is gonna be B.S.
so what ,thats the case on any team and or company.
bottom line is we got a new coach and a new qb,nobody knows if thats a bad thing or a good thing,but its DONE!
now as fans we should really be supporting the TEAM.(no not like lemmings)

i really dont see the fascination with griping and whining and saying"oh noo were gonna suck....we'll never make the playoffs without jay and shanny"

WE NEVER MADE THE PLAYOFFS WITH JAY and SHANNY !:rolleyes:

OB
05-04-2009, 03:47 PM
He needs to lay off the ganja - damn short term memory loss :tsk:

Ravage!!!
05-04-2009, 05:40 PM
what does that have to do with anything?
are people really already comparing mcD to phillips?
thats crazy,the guy has'nt coached a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the owner stated he is more excited about whats happening this year than in a while! thats cool!
the players have said that workouts and mini camp have been better and more competitive etc... sure some of what we fans hear is gonna be B.S.
so what ,thats the case on any team and or company.
bottom line is we got a new coach and a new qb,nobody knows if thats a bad thing or a good thing,but its DONE!
now as fans we should really be supporting the TEAM.(no not like lemmings)

i really dont see the fascination with griping and whining and saying"oh noo were gonna suck....we'll never make the playoffs without jay and shanny"

WE NEVER MADE THE PLAYOFFS WITH JAY and SHANNY !:rolleyes:


Purely comes down to probabilities to me. The chances of McDaniels succeeding in his first NFL head coaching job are low. Thats not against HIM as a person, but thats how its been for young coaches around the NFL. Not only is he ONLY 32 years old, but its his first HC job. How many of those do you see last more than three years around the league that haven't had more coaching experience?

The probability of the Broncos going to (or winning) a Super Bowl without a franchise quality QB are slim. Doesn't mean that it won't happen, but the facts are the facts. Look at the SUper Bowl winners over the last 20 years. How many didn't have franchise QBs?

So now we have both. Instead of having a young HC that HAD a stud offense with a stud FOURTH YEAR pro-bowl starting QB at the helm to help him succeed..... we have a young, first year, coach with a QB that most can see is just NOT a QB that you would want to rely on as your starter.

Despite people moaning and groaning, the fact that we DID win 8 games last year with our defense, TRULY was something that only 2 teams out of 104 have done. That IS something to be proud of if you are talking about a 3rd year QB that has had 15 out of 32 games going against 30+ points scored AGAINST him. Thats amazing!

So yes... I'm supporting the 'team' because I always root for the Broncos. But that doesn't mean I want to close my eyes and say "everything that mcdaniels is doing is GREAT because its not Shanahan doing it" .. and THAT is the reason some are supporting the moves.

Can I compare McDaniels to Phillips right now? Sure. Why not? Phillips had more experience as a coach before coming HC than McDaniels has had. I'm betting I can name more YOUNG HCs that failed their first 2-3 seasons than you can name that succeeded at their first job.

Thats the point to me. Thats the hesitation in believing all this "he has his system, he knows what he wants..he's going after what fits".... how many said that about every OTHER coach that came to their team? How many OTHER of those 'failed' attempts did it while getting rid of their best player in the process??

To me.. its all about looking at the reality of the odds.

Its a copy cat league.. and the success of Tomlin in PItt is whats getting teams to sign young coaches. But I think you'll quickly see the NFL turning the other direction again soon, and hiring more experienced HCs.... especially if they are going to be taking on so much responsibility as what has been given to McDaniels...

OrangeHoof
05-04-2009, 05:51 PM
The closest comparison I can make to McDaniels is David Shula. Came to the Bengals with the reputation as a young offensive genius but with no head coaching experience and woefully little overall coaching experience.

That doesn't mean McDaniels will be another Shula. But if history repeats itself, it will be because people bought the hype instead of the reality.

Belichick, himself, had a strong coaching background as Parcells' defensive coordinator but the first time he tried to be the head coach (Browns) he fell flat on his face.

T.K.O.
05-04-2009, 05:57 PM
ok you compare him to phillips and i'll compare him to tomlin...we'll both be guessing at this point.
and i dont think big bens stats are much better than ortons so we have a punchers chance !

Ravage!!!
05-04-2009, 05:57 PM
When we first heard the announcement of the hiring of McDaniels... I was pretty excited, for a couple reasons.

1) We got a young coach

2) We would be getting an experienced GM so that our young coach could purely coach.

3) We had a young QB that was just going only into his 4th season and first year from pro-bowl.


The HOPE for this season was to have a young mind at HC, a strong GM presence that could handle the GM duties without having to worry about our HC doing both. An offense that was stout and secure with talent that was only needing to learn the new system while we brought in a decent DC.. and CONCENTRATE on rebuilding that Defense while just 'reshaping' the offense.

But how quickly things changed. Without the GM, the goodmans, and the stud QB..... I don't WANT a young coach with no experience.

If we knew we weren't going to have a new GM (instead of the same complaint about the shanahan situation with all the power), were going to lose the Goodmans and were going to start the season without the primary weapon of our entire team...... would you truly HOPE to get McDaniels over a more seasoned NFL veteran coach?

If I'm going to get hit by a hurricane, I would prefer to board up the windows, bat down the hatches, and climb into the cellar than to 'hope it misses us' while standing on the porch.

Ravage!!!
05-04-2009, 06:00 PM
ok you compare him to phillips and i'll compare him to tomlin...we'll both be guessing at this point.
and i dont think big bens stats are much better than ortons so we have a punchers chance !

I'm not comparing him to Philllips. But at least Phillips came in and still had Elway.

Jim Mora was a young coach that was thought of to be some young stud. Had one good year with Atlanta.

Tomlin didn't make dramatic changes from Cowher... in fact, made VERY FEW changes at all. He KEPT what was working.

So although Ben's stats weren't better than Ortons, I think we both know that Denver's defense isn't ANYWHERE IN THE SAME UNIVERSE like Pitts. So the comparisons in that department are moot.

Lonestar
05-04-2009, 06:26 PM
So is it the consensus of the mike crowd to fire Josh and rehire mike?

I hear NO solutions to the issues y'all!!!!!!!

Just a bunch of we can't do this, he can't do that, OMG we are gonna suck.. OMG jay is gone therefore it will take another 40 years to find a franchise QB.

We all know that the only way you can win in the playoffs is with jay or John.. no one else can win..

We are changing to much.. young coaches do not ever win..


YADDA YADDA YADDA


Perhaps it is time for Y'all to write Pat and tell him he is going to ruin the franchise.

Ravage!!!
05-04-2009, 06:33 PM
WHats the matter, Jr? Already tired of reading what we had to read from you the last 10 years?

Lonestar
05-04-2009, 06:38 PM
WHats the matter, Jr? Already tired of reading what we had to read from you the last 10 years?

by all means put me on IGGY.. I will not miss you.. You had the chance back then also.. but chose not to..

BTW I have not been on the forums for 10 years but it was a nice try..:laugh:

Ravage!!!
05-04-2009, 06:43 PM
by all means put me on IGGY.. I will not miss you.. You had the chance back then also.. but chose not to..

BTW I have not been on the forums for 10 years but it was a nice try..:laugh:

You know what I mean. I'm just saying that you are now reading the same complaints and criticisms that you have been giving about Shanahan for years. So now, instead of being irritated with the Shanahan supporters, you are irritated with the McDaniels detractors.

I guess none of us are ever happy all the time.

broncohead
05-04-2009, 07:03 PM
So is it the consensus of the mike crowd to fire Josh and rehire mike?

I hear NO solutions to the issues y'all!!!!!!!

Just a bunch of we can't do this, he can't do that, OMG we are gonna suck.. OMG jay is gone therefore it will take another 40 years to find a franchise QB.

We all know that the only way you can win in the playoffs is with jay or John.. no one else can win..

We are changing to much.. young coaches do not ever win..


YADDA YADDA YADDA


Perhaps it is time for Y'all to write Pat and tell him he is going to ruin the franchise.

To late

broncfn90
05-04-2009, 07:39 PM
I can see it already.... Josh gets canned after 2-3 years and all the bronco fans will be looking at each like "... wow!.... how did it come to this?..."

BroncoWave
05-04-2009, 08:26 PM
One of our memories is going bad because I distinctly remember Pat saying 'Jay is the man' the day he fired Shanny.

I don't see your point. Things change when you refuse to call your owner back.

Hawgdriver
05-04-2009, 08:51 PM
The probability of the Broncos going to (or winning) a Super Bowl without a franchise quality QB are slim. Doesn't mean that it won't happen, but the facts are the facts. Look at the SUper Bowl winners over the last 20 years. How many didn't have franchise QBs?


I'm not saying that I think Orton is the solution, but it's useful to remember that franchise QBs are so called because they won Superbowls. Should Orton win a Superbowl, he has become a franchise QB. My point is that getting the label "franchise QB" is backwards-looking. You know you have one only after you've won big games with him and he's a factor in the success. Let's give Orton a shot with a solid offense and quality playcalling. It's a stretch, but you never know. Hey, Big Ben is a "franchise QB", right?

Anyway, Bowlen's candor was refreshing and revealing.

Ravage!!!
05-04-2009, 11:04 PM
I'm not saying that I think Orton is the solution, but it's useful to remember that franchise QBs are so called because they won Superbowls. Should Orton win a Superbowl, he has become a franchise QB. My point is that getting the label "franchise QB" is backwards-looking. You know you have one only after you've won big games with him and he's a factor in the success. Let's give Orton a shot with a solid offense and quality playcalling. It's a stretch, but you never know. Hey, Big Ben is a "franchise QB", right?

Anyway, Bowlen's candor was refreshing and revealing.

Not true. I know Rivers is a franchise QB... hasn't won one. I know Marino was a franchise Qb.. never won one. I know that Manning was a franchise QB before he won one. Tony Romo and Brees.. are both franchise QBs. I know that Dilfer and Brad Johnson are NOT franchise QBs despite winning one.

56crash
05-04-2009, 11:11 PM
I don't see your point. Things change when you refuse to call your owner back.

wow how many times you need to be told the goodmans told cutler he was going to be traded . and that JR hoodie did not like him and that he was getting moved .

Cutler told us he was getting traded!

56crash
05-04-2009, 11:15 PM
ok you compare him to phillips and i'll compare him to tomlin...we'll both be guessing at this point.
and i dont think big bens stats are much better than ortons so we have a punchers chance !

yep in say what 5 years of drafts... trying to compare our D to the steelers .


Have we become raiders fans ?:confused:

Simple Jaded
05-05-2009, 12:40 AM
If Bowlen were going to sell this team he wouldn't have traded his Franchise QB, and I sincerely doubt the team can be moved so easily after being given a new stadium a decade ago.

I think any new owner would be a complete idiot to move a team this attached to the community, but then again, I didn't think any new Head Coach would be stupid enough to trade Jay Cutler.

There is no better place for the Broncos than in Denver, but ridiculously stupid things seem to be happening to this franchise on a regular basis lately.

As for Pat, if he thought this latest bit of Damage Control was supposed to inspire confidence, he's losing it. And if any of this is true, Ellis should be the first one fired, this is why teams hire the Parcells' and Polian's to run the organization.

If this is how Bowlen runs his real estate businesses, it's now wonder he's broke, if nothing else, they had better damn well be right about the Head Coach.......

Lonestar
05-05-2009, 12:50 AM
I don't see your point. Things change when you refuse to call your owner back.:salute:

just a minor detail there.. why would anyone want to get logical now..

Lonestar
05-05-2009, 12:57 AM
I'm not saying that I think Orton is the solution, but it's useful to remember that franchise QBs are so called because they won Superbowls. Should Orton win a Superbowl, he has become a franchise QB. My point is that getting the label "franchise QB" is backwards-looking. You know you have one only after you've won big games with him and he's a factor in the success. Let's give Orton a shot with a solid offense and quality playcalling. It's a stretch, but you never know. Hey, Big Ben is a "franchise QB", right?

Anyway, Bowlen's candor was refreshing and revealing. :salute:

but jay was a franchise QB!!!! Did you not read it here..

how could that be? when he did not even have a winning record YET, AGAIN..

he got that label because he had a rocket arm and remember the "I have a stronger arm than John does".. not because he earned it by winning anything..

Just like the "take it to the house" label tater got..

until they do folks need to be realistic and not dream it into reality

Tned
05-05-2009, 07:29 AM
:salute:

but jay was a franchise QB!!!! Did you not read it here..

how could that be? when he did not even have a winning record YET, AGAIN..

he got that label because he had a rocket arm and remember the "I have a stronger arm than John does".. not because he earned it by winning anything..

Just like the "take it to the house" label tater got..

until they do folks need to be realistic and not dream it into reality

The sarcasm won't change the fact that most NFL experts / NFL media consider Jay a franchise QB. One of only a handful of young QBs put in that category. Only time will tell what type of QB he ultimately is, because 2 1/2 years of starting on a struggling team is not enough time to know.

I just find it insanely ironic that the people that defended Jake so staunchly from one attack after another, are the ones that feel a need to attack Jay in every thread, in the same way.

Why not just see what happens over the next few years and check the sarcasm at the homepage? Just a thought?

DenBronx
05-05-2009, 12:39 PM
was anyone watching nfl network last night? they had a brief discussion on how bowlen said mcdaniels "commited rookie mistakes" in regards to the draft. i dont think he was happy at all with trading the 1st rounder in next years draft or how many db's and s we took when we bascially went after those in free agency.

you mcdaniel lovers can try and justify it if you want to but mcdaniels really wasnt prepared on draft day and it cost the team.

Ravage!!!
05-05-2009, 12:49 PM
was anyone watching nfl network last night? they had a brief discussion on how bowlen said mcdaniels "commited rookie mistakes" in regards to the draft. i dont think he was happy at all with trading the 1st rounder in next years draft or how many db's and s we took when we bascially went after those in free agency.

you mcdaniel lovers can try and justify it if you want to but mcdaniels really wasnt prepared on draft day and it cost the team.

I think he was referring to the Cutler situation, imo.

but he did comment on "surprised that more defensive players weren't taken in the draft."

Nomad
05-05-2009, 12:56 PM
you mcdaniel lovers can try and justify it if you want to but mcdaniels really wasnt prepared on draft day and it cost the team.

You have no proof yet that it cost the team! Come Sept, Nov, Dec, I may agree with you until then you can't definitively say it cost the team until you see the product on the field then again it may take a couple years to develop.

I don't believe anyone here is a McDaniel's lover...no one knows him as a HC. I'm sure most are willing to give him a try before throwing him to the wolves.

Bowlen said alot of things and his mistake was giving a player a say in FO affairs. And Bowlen is the one who pulled the trigger on Cutler, not McDaniels so those who accuse McDaniels of getting rid of him are wrong...Bowlen was tired of the circus especially when he was snubbed. Again, McDaniels doesn't get a free pass and I'm sure he has made rookie mistakes as a coach (then again, what rookie HC hasn't) and he better create a solid team in the next few years because if not, it'll be like Wade Phillips a few and gone. Again, I'm sure people here who defend McDaniels are more willing to give the man his due as a HC and seeing what he brings to the field.

Ravage!!!
05-05-2009, 01:06 PM
Come on. What about the trade attempt for Cassel? That didn't have anything to do with "bowlen pulling the trigger." McDaniels is the one that got rid of Cutler.

As far as people loving McDaniels...there are many here that have embraced him PURELY because he's not Shanahan, and not basing it on 'giving him his fair shake.'

Nomad
05-05-2009, 01:23 PM
Come on. What about the trade attempt for Cassel? That didn't have anything to do with "bowlen pulling the trigger." McDaniels is the one that got rid of Cutler.

As far as people loving McDaniels...there are many here that have embraced him PURELY because he's not Shanahan, and not basing it on 'giving him his fair shake.'

Thanks for the input and repeating yourself over and over and over and over and over, we know your take on the situation so you can quit stomping your feet and going through every post repeating yourself!!! Of what I read I disagree, McDaniels may have instigated and making it worse with the situation by attempting to get Cassel (I believe it happened when Bates walked away and Cutler didn't want to be part of the team anymore because Bowlen made him promises) but after not getting his guy (Cassel), McDaniels wanted to work with Cutler. No one is giving McDaniels a free pass but Cutler is far from innocent as many of you Culterites seem too portray. I wish the fella could have remained on the team and maybe grew up from a 12 yr mentality to a 26 yr old man during the summer. McDaniels was willing to work with Cutler and Cutler made his own bed by snubbing Bowlen, which whom Cutler didn't trust as well.


I guess the same could be said many here dispise McDaniels because Shanahan isn't around anymore. And yes, most people don't come to judgement before they have yet to see what kind of job a HC has to offer. Again, come Jan, we will have a better view of things.

Lonestar
05-05-2009, 01:56 PM
The sarcasm won't change the fact that most NFL experts / NFL media consider Jay a franchise QB. One of only a handful of young QBs put in that category. Only time will tell what type of QB he ultimately is, because 2 1/2 years of starting on a struggling team is not enough time to know.

I just find it insanely ironic that the people that defended Jake so staunchly from one attack after another, are the ones that feel a need to attack Jay in every thread, in the same way.

Why not just see what happens over the next few years and check the sarcasm at the homepage? Just a thought?


Perhaps he was going to be a franchise QB under mike and his system and that was what everyone saw. now that mike is gone and jay is NOT in his system will he be a true franchise QB.. in the minds of bears fan probably because their QB is so low Micky the mope could be a franchise QB.. no doubt he will be a God for them.. more power to them..

Will he be another Elway, a leader of men, a QB that can carry that pathetic offense, I sincerely doubt it after seeing him in action in denver.. I hear they already have his place on the bench reserved for him to brood at..

that said........

But, as I said just because someone is drafted in round one does not automatically make them the golden one..

they also need a scheme, coaching, and a supporting cast.. look at all the potential franchise QB's and think about whether they were worth the pick.

1 1 JaMarcus Russell QB Louisiana State Oakland Raiders
1 22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame Cleveland Browns

1 3 Vince Young QB Texas Tennessee Titans
1 10 Matt Leinart QB USC Arizona Cardinals
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt Denver Broncos

1 1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers
1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California Green Bay Packers
1 25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn Washington Redskins

1 1 Eli Manning QB Mississippi San Diego Chargers
1 4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State New York Giants
1 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio) Pittsburgh Steelers
1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane Buffalo Bills

1 1 Carson Palmer QB USC Cincinnati Bengals
1 7 Byron Leftwich QB Marshall Jacksonville Jaguars
1 19 Kyle Boller QB California Baltimore Ravens
1 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida Chicago Bears

1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State Houston Texans
1 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon Detroit Lions
1 32 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane Washington Redskins

1 1 Michael Vick QB Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons

1 18 Chad Pennington QB Marshall New York Jets

1 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Cleveland Browns
1 2 Donovan McNabb QB Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles
1 3 Akili Smith QB Oregon Cincinnati Bengals
1 11 Daunte Culpepper QB Central Florida Minnesota Vikings
1 12 Cade McNown QB UCLA Chicago Bears

1 1 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee Indianapolis Colts
1 2 Ryan Leaf QB Washington State San Diego Chargers

1 26 Jim Druckenmiller QB Virginia Tech San Francisco 49ers

1 3 Steve McNair QB Alcorn State Houston Oilers
1 5 Kerry Collins QB Penn State Carolina Panthers

1 3 Heath Shuler QB Tennessee Washington Redskins
1 6 Trent Dilfer QB Fresno State Tampa Bay Buccaneers

1 1 Drew Bledsoe QB Washington State New England Patriots
1 2 Rick Mirer QB Notre Dame Seattle Seahawks

1 6 David Klingler QB Houston Cincinnati Bengals
1 25 Tommy Maddox QB UCLA Denver Broncos

1 16 Dan McGwire QB San Diego State Seattle Seahawks
1 24 Todd Marinovich QB USC Los Angeles Raiders

1 1 Jeff George QB Illinois Indianapolis Colts
1 7 Andre Ware QB Houston Detroit Lions

1 1 Troy Aikman QB UCLA Dallas Cowboys

the last 20 years and think about how may of them really turned out to be franchise guys..

and perhaps the greast QB class ever..

1 1 John Elway QB Stanford Baltimore Colts
1 7 Todd Blackledge QB Penn State Kansas City Chiefs
1 14 Jim Kelly QB Miami (Fla.) Buffalo Bills
1 15 Tony Eason QB Illinois New England Patriots
1 24 Ken O'Brien QB California-Davis New York Jets
1 27 Dan Marino QB Pittsburgh Miami Dolphins


only three were truly indeed difference makers, IIRC only three played in SB's with only ONE getting a ring..

Franchise QB well I guess the beauty is in the eye of the beholder..



I guess those of us that liked Jake see some irony now that mike is gone.. FWIW it is easy to comment on jay, because he has flaws just like any other and for those that saw them it is easy to look at those most of the die hard jay fans and chuckle when they defend the indefensible..

TXBRONC
05-05-2009, 02:23 PM
At least Bowlen can see and admit what some fans get hostile when you bring up:

In a somewhat subtle way I think the comment on the draft speaks to a rookie mistake.

Ravage!!!
05-05-2009, 02:34 PM
exactly. That just goes to show you why you don't trade away a franchise QB once you have one :)

Lonestar
05-05-2009, 02:45 PM
exactly. That just goes to show you why you don't trade away a franchise QB once you have one :)

but that also means you have to be sure you have one in the first place.. the whole emphasis on my posts..

No one knows for sure he was one.. yes some of those commentators and mike thought so, as do many fans in DEN..

but was it system or QB..

Only Time will tell..

Ravage!!!
05-05-2009, 03:05 PM
but that also means you have to be sure you have one in the first place.. the whole emphasis on my posts..

No one knows for sure he was one.. yes some of those commentators and mike thought so, as do many fans in DEN..

but was it system or QB..

Only Time will tell..

Thats always been the debated question. How would have Montana done in Denver and ELway done in San Fran? Would Brady still be considered great if he was drafted by Detroit?

The one thing I know.. is that great coaches are great when they have great QBs. Rarely are they the other way around (Gibbs). Belicheck wasn't great without Brady. We'll never know about Walsh.

So I I was going to lay my money down on what makes what look better... I'll bet that good players make coaches look better than the other way around (even switzer won a Super Bowl in Dallas). ALthough, I think that both is needed to be GREAT.

Lonestar
05-05-2009, 03:38 PM
Thats always been the debated question. How would have Montana done in Denver and ELway done in San Fran? Would Brady still be considered great if he was drafted by Detroit?

The one thing I know.. is that great coaches are great when they have great QBs. Rarely are they the other way around (Gibbs). Belicheck wasn't great without Brady. We'll never know about Walsh.

So I I was going to lay my money down on what makes what look better... I'll bet that good players make coaches look better than the other way around (even switzer won a Super Bowl in Dallas). ALthough, I think that both is needed to be GREAT.

finally, thank you for getting it..

I'm not saying jay is not a franchise QB he could be but NOW will he be.. But then the bears standard is much lower than Denver's is..

As for Switzer the franchise was in automatic cruise control, with that clown..

We all know he could not have designed it, nor drafted it or even maintiained it for longer than he did.. even if his pecker was in a vise..

Simple Jaded
05-05-2009, 05:55 PM
A short list of Doogie's Rookie Mistakes:

Not keeping Bates over a "Passing Game Coordinator".

Firing a competent personnel guy that was actually involved with drafting the only talent this team has and keeping a subservient Capologist instead.

Trying to trade a Franchise QB for a Security Blanket.

Acting like he's already the Second Coming of The Hoodie.

Getting played by an Immature 25 year old Baby.

Turning down better draft picks so he could get Kyle Orton.

Trading a No1 for a No2 and trading two No3's that were worth a lot more than what he got in return, apparently he's the only GM on the planet that's never heard of the Draft Trade Value Chart.

Taking a job with a team that only needed a RB and a Defense and turning it into a team has a bunch of RB's.......

horsepig
05-05-2009, 08:33 PM
I agree with some Link. My problem with Cutler really stems from his laize faire attitude. He's always had that attitude that even though this is the big league, he's just so damned good it's easy. Didn't it seem like the bad performances weren't his fault?

Then River's just ate him up like Christmas cookies. I don't go to the stadium much anymore, but when I have, and the team was not doing well, I just felt like I might as well go home. I never felt like that with Elway. I liked Plummer too, but I also felt there was no chance for a great 4'th quarter comeback with Plummer either (and I mean more than one long FG to comeback on).

IMHO, Cutler is a lot like Farve. Farve really blew a lot of playoff games and only won the one SB. Lots of stats. Lot of good ole boy bullshit. I won't be surprised to see Cutler win a SB, but I bet he misses out on several by not being able to pull the rest of the team up and take playoff games away from other teams.

Ravage!!!
05-05-2009, 10:03 PM
I agree with some Link. My problem with Cutler really stems from his laize faire attitude. He's always had that attitude that even though this is the big league, he's just so damned good it's easy. Didn't it seem like the bad performances weren't his fault?

Then River's just ate him up like Christmas cookies. I don't go to the stadium much anymore, but when I have, and the team was not doing well, I just felt like I might as well go home. I never felt like that with Elway. I liked Plummer too, but I also felt there was no chance for a great 4'th quarter comeback with Plummer either (and I mean more than one long FG to comeback on).

IMHO, Cutler is a lot like Farve. Farve really blew a lot of playoff games and only won the one SB. Lots of stats. Lot of good ole boy bullshit. I won't be surprised to see Cutler win a SB, but I bet he misses out on several by not being able to pull the rest of the team up and take playoff games away from other teams.

Could say the same thing about Peyton. Completely different attitude than what you are illustrating, but he's been 1 n done 7 times in the playoffs with only one Super Bowl appearance despite having the best offense in the NFL for years, and being considered the best QB for years... and 10 straight playoff appearances.

Cutler is/was pretty laid back off the field and with the press... however I can't say he was laize faire ON the field. He actually had a LOT of fire on the field, and despite so many complaining that he didn't "show enough emotion" his rookie season, people then complained he had TOO much emotion both years after that.

Tempus Fugit
05-06-2009, 12:33 AM
1.) Cutler's gone because he didn't return calls to the owner. It's not because of McDaniels, it's not because of McDonald's, it's not because of McLovin', McGyver or any other Mc. It's because he didn't bother returning calls.

2.) McDaniels made rookie mistakes. Shockingly, he's a rookie head coach. He'll make mistakes every year. Belichick makes mistakes. Shula made mistakes too, as did every other coach in the history of the game.

3.) Bowlen was puzzled that more defensive player weren't taken. That's not particularly stunning given the team's problems in recent seasons. However,


he backed the draft plan of his coach and general manager Brian Xanders. "I hired them to do their jobs," he said. "I believe in them. It's not my role to evaluate players and make those draft decisions. I'm not qualified to do it.

What Bowlen may not have known is that the linebackers in this draft weren't looked upon as being a great class by a lot of talent evaluators. Here's an example:


No ‘backers:For only the second time in the 12 Polian-directed drafts, the team did not select a linebacker. The only other ’backer-less draft was in 2001. Polian described this year’s linebacker class as "very thin.‘’

http://www.indy.com/posts/colts-8-draft-picks-address-several-manpower-issues

So, the team did address the cornerback position with two players, grabbed Acres and took a safety, making 4 of the top 6 picks defensive players, even to the point of sacrificing a pick next year to add another defensive pick this season. This was done in a year with minimal 3-4 d-line talent and minimal linebacker talent.

I just didn't see a whole lot of meat in this article, and what there was seemed pretty obvious already.