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Mannway187
04-24-2012, 09:56 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Tired of hearing all the defensive specialist on here talk about how bad our DTs were last year I decided to look it up. And I was surprised to find that 19 of the 32 teams gave up more yards per rushing attempt than the Broncos. And that only 5 other teams faced more rushing attempts per game. Yes, the Broncos ranked 22 overall in rushing defense but most of that can be simply because our offense had so many 3 and outs. The Defense still only gave up 11 rushing TDs during the 16 game regular season. Next year with Manning we will probably be spending more time on offense and playing with a lead. So drafting a DT savior really won't make a difference because DTs don't cover wide open TE's in the middle of the field. Drafting a Steve Atwater type big hitting SS and a RB with speed and power is much more important. It also wouldn't hurt to have a speedster capable of hauling in few deep balls now that we have a guy that isn't afraid to let it rip a couple times a game. Lets give the guys that actually make the decisions a little more respect and trust that they know what they're doing. And just ZIP IT about the DT position!

Mannway187
04-24-2012, 09:59 PM
PS: I tried to cut it short, really I did.

Tebowtime2011
04-24-2012, 10:11 PM
Wow great thread I never knew about those numbers but I still say draft a DT in the 2nd

topscribe
04-25-2012, 12:12 AM
It's true, the Broncos' defense was ranked 22nd in total yards, but they were 13th in yards per attempt. So they went from 29th in YPA in 2010 to 13th in 2011.

That's impressive, but let's not forget that a major piece, Bunkley, is not here anymore. It won't hurt my feelings to see a DT at least out of the second round.

Simple Jaded
04-25-2012, 12:40 AM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Tired of hearing all the defensive specialist on here talk about how bad our DTs were last year I decided to look it up. And I was surprised to find that 19 of the 32 teams gave up more yards per rushing attempt than the Broncos. And that only 5 other teams faced more rushing attempts per game.

Yes, the Broncos ranked 22 overall in rushing defense but most of that can be simply because our offense had so many 3 and outs. The Defense still only gave up 11 rushing TDs during the 16 game regular season. Next year with Manning we will probably be spending more time on offense and playing with a lead. So drafting a DT savior really won't make a difference because DTs don't cover wide open TE's in the middle of the field.

Drafting a Steve Atwater type big hitting SS and a RB with speed and power is much more important. It also wouldn't hurt to have a speedster capable of hauling in few deep balls now that we have a guy that isn't afraid to let it rip a couple times a game. Lets give the guys that actually make the decisions a little more respect and trust that they know what they're doing. And just ZIP IT about the DT position!
No offense, Manningway, but both starting DT's from last year are currently not on the roster. It'd be a lot easier to ZIP IT if they returned.

Btw, I don't think anybody is expecting a DT savior, especially at the back end of each round, but a little investment would be nice.......

SpringsBroncoFan
04-25-2012, 01:46 AM
Using the NFL stats, I'd answer this way...

Last year, Bannan only provided 72% of the production of Bunkley or Thomas(comb tackles). Even if we assume Warren evenly replaces the production of Bunkley that still leaves us 28% less def rush production - so just from that we need to improve.

We are now a Super Bowl team (trying anyway), so let's compare vs. the Super Bowl contenders...

We were #22 at 126 yds per last year.

NE was #17 at 117 yds per last year with the #31 pass defense.

NYG was #19 at 121 yds per last year with the #19 pass defense (just behind us #18).

Pit was #8 at 99 yds per last year with the the #1 pass defense.

SF was #1 at 77 yds per last year with the #16 pass defense (just ahead of us). I have visions of Frank Gore running it down our throats in the Super Bowl.

To have a Super Bowl caliber defense we need to improve by 10 to 15 yds per game, that's not happening without a DT in the 1st or 2nd round. If we try to wait until the 3rd we'll be pissing in the wind...

By the numbers we have a below average rush defense... My contention would be that a DT savior would make a difference...

Teams are going to want to run the ball down our throats & blow up Walton & Beadles.

Mannway187
04-25-2012, 02:43 AM
To have a Super Bowl caliber defense we need to improve by 10 to 15 yds per game, that's not happening without a DT in the 1st or 2nd round. If we try to wait until the 3rd we'll be pissing in the wind...

By the numbers we have a below average rush defense... My contention would be that a DT savior would make a difference...

Teams are going to want to run the ball down our throats & blow up Walton & Beadles.

Teams don't usually stick with running the ball down your throat when they are down by 14, furthermore I don't invision any scenario in which Walton or Beadles would find themselves playing DT. Both have been doing a servicable job on the offensive line of the leagues #1 ranked rushing offense. I recall that last year every time Teblow or Snorton said hike they recieved the ball cleanly. Anytime there are no fumbled exchanges between Center and QB the Center gets a big fat pat on the back. Walton got 18 pats on his back last year none of which blew him up.
Next year our defense allows 30-45 less rushing yards per game. How? By spending 6-10 minutes per game on the sideline watching the offense matriculate up and down the field.

Simple Jaded
04-25-2012, 04:03 AM
Don't be so hasty, Mannway, Walton and Beadles might actually be an upgrade to some of Denver's DT's.......

silkamilkamonico
04-25-2012, 08:45 AM
The player personnel is irrelevant at this point. Can Denver's defense keep them consistently involved and compeitive throughout the flow of every game week in and week out. Have to see it on the field.

SpringsBroncoFan
04-25-2012, 09:32 AM
Don't be so hasty, Mannway, Walton and Beadles might actually be an upgrade to some of Denver's DT's.......

:lol:

Well, I just give up... I'm wrong... I mean, rush defense means nothing in the Super Bowl as it will be a shootout just like the last one! Oh wait... :confused:

Simple Jaded
04-25-2012, 09:38 AM
:lol:

Well, I just give up... I'm wrong... I mean, rush defense means nothing in the Super Bowl as it will be a shootout just like the last one! Oh wait... :confused:

I'm just sayin it might be worth considering, especially if the backup DT's are Mitch Unrein and Ben Garland.......

HORSEPOWER 56
04-25-2012, 10:00 AM
Run defense is only half the story with DTs. Sure, you can plug in any fat guy to clog the middle and hopefully eat blockers to allow the LBs to fill gaps and make tackes... unless of course he sucks and gets pushed around (McBean, Thomas) and has to facemask all the time to bring down RBs. The biggest impact of having "good" DTs vice not having them is the pentration they provide on passing downs. Pressure directly in the QBs face is HUGE, especially vs guys like Brady who run a predominantly short/timing passing attack. It will also allow Doom and Von to reach the QB by preventing a pocket.

No matter what Elway says to the media, the Broncos need DTs. Unless Warren is completely healed and back to his old self, we don't have a startig caliber one currently on the roster. Bannan and Vickerson are situational rotational guys who can't, and shouldn't, be relied on to start. They are guys that you have on the roster to keep the starters fresh who play maybe 1/4 of the defensive snaps per game. Neither is especially good vs the run or the pass. They are career backups, period. This defense will continue to struggle vs both the run and the pass (lower 1/2 the league in total defense is not good) until they address this postion. There's just no other way to spin it. Shanny invested heavily in CBs both in the draft and in FA and it never helped but always overlooked DT. Continuing to do so instead of actually fixing the real problem for once will keep us headed down the wrong path on defense.

Nomad
04-25-2012, 10:12 AM
Run defense is only half the story with DTs. Sure, you can plug in any fat guy to clog the middle and hopefully eat blockers to allow the LBs to fill gaps and make tackes... unless of course he sucks and gets pushed around (McBean, Thomas) and has to facemask all the time to bring down RBs. The biggest impact of having "good" DTs vice not having them is the pentration they provide on passing downs. Pressure directly in the QBs face is HUGE, especially vs guys like Brady who run a predominantly short/timing passing attack. It will also allow Doom and Von to reach the QB by preventing a pocket.

No matter what Elway says to the media, the Broncos need DTs. Unless Warren is completely healed and back to his old self, we don't have a startig caliber one currently on the roster. Bannan and Vickerson are situational rotational guys who can't, and shouldn't, be relied on to start. They are guys that you have on the roster to keep the starters fresh who play maybe 1/4 of the defensive snaps per game. Neither is especially good vs the run or the pass. They are career backups, period. This defense will continue to struggle vs both the run and the pass (lower 1/2 the league in total defense is not good) until they address this postion. There's just no other way to spin it. Shanny invested heavily in CBs both in the draft and in FA and it never helped but always overlooked DT. Continuing to do so instead of actually fixing the real problem for once will keep us headed down the wrong path on defense.

Many here who complain about this very problem during the games are the ones saying we don't need DTs. If EFX's plan goes as they are hoping, which is team's are going to be playing catch up, BRONCOS are gonna wish they had a DT who could get to the QB.

Mannway187
04-25-2012, 11:51 AM
I had hoped that by pointing out that our run defense wasn't that bad considering they spent way more time playing than they did resting last year. But someone unzipped and suddenly the topic drifted back to those 2 lousy fat bastages. OK I give. Can we puhlease draft someone capable of playing defensive tackle the way so many of us think it should be played? Lets take one with every pick we have and hope Del Rio can teach them to meet our expectations.

Why is it that everybody wants to use at least one early pick on the one position with the highest rate of failure in the history of the NFL. True fact, that more teams end up with a bust when taking a DT than any other position.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/47157103/ns/nfl

Fortunately most front offices know that a pick used on a DT is a wasted pick. Maybe thats why the really good ones don't last past the 5th pick.

Try placing a standard size postage stamp in the middle of an empty room, now turn off the lights and dive to where you think that stamp should be and try to lick the stamp. Now you know why the Broncos haven't wasted many picks on a player who can't lick the stamp. Odds are about the same.

broncofaninfla
04-25-2012, 12:03 PM
Our spread defense was awful against the run and it was usually right up our gut. No matter what this says we need help at DT and have for too long.

horsepig
04-25-2012, 02:49 PM
I would not be at all unhappy with Hightower. They need both, plus an ass kicker SS. Who knows about Warren and I agree that Vickerson needs a backup/rotation guy as good as he is.

NightTerror218
04-25-2012, 02:53 PM
with the loss of bunkley i think that will make a huge impact on the DL. He was awesome for us, unrated. I think that alone bumped us into the category of we are drafting a DL at some point. Bannan mades a good rotational player. Warren back helps if he stays healthy. But we still need depth there too. Vickerson/bannan/warren/unrein/garland not impressive.

BroncoStud
04-25-2012, 03:07 PM
Denver lost it's best DT from last season when the middle of the defense was a major weakness...

The Broncos need at LEAST 1 DT if not 2.

SpringsBroncoFan
04-25-2012, 03:09 PM
with the loss of bunkley i think that will make a huge impact on the DL. He was awesome for us, unrated. I think that alone bumped us into the category of we are drafting a DL at some point. Bannan mades a good rotational player. Warren back helps if he stays healthy. But we still need depth there too. Vickerson/bannan/warren/unrein/garland not impressive.

Ah come on man... at least give Warren & Garland a tbd... don't lump him in with the other bums...

topscribe
04-25-2012, 03:30 PM
Ah come on man... at least give Warren & Garland a tbd... don't lump him in with the other bums...
I have nothing but absolute respect for Garland.

With the respective exits of Tebow and Dawkins, it's good to see one of Garland's character come in.

Problem is, we know little about Garland the football player. I hope he's the player that he is a man . . .

NightTerror218
04-25-2012, 04:10 PM
Ah come on man... at least give Warren & Garland a tbd... don't lump him in with the other bums...

Garland is undersized and has a good motor. Maybe he can be a backup DE. I dont know much about him. As for Warren i saw what happened with old pat players along with older DL (how did that last old charger player DT turn out).

Simple Jaded
04-26-2012, 01:02 PM
Garland is undersized and has a good motor. Maybe he can be a backup DE. I dont know much about him. As for Warren i saw what happened with old pat players along with older DL (how did that last old charger player DT turn out).

Maybe the Broncos think Garland replaces McBean as a pass rush threat inside, the timing of Garlands availability and McBean's release supports that.......