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View Full Version : GOOD TAKE ON ORTON ...pre-draft



T.K.O.
04-29-2009, 07:36 PM
let's get some positive momentum started! with mini-camps underway, the draft behind us, and most of the major offseason moves in the books.
i wanted to start a thread dedicated to supporting our "new look" broncos.
as you may or may not already know....i'm stoked about alot of the changes with the team this year.(not that i agree with all of them).
so i tjhought i'd post this interesting tidbit about our (likely) new starting qb.
i think it sums up pretty well why mcD thought he would be an adequate replacement for "the player"

PRE-DRAFT analysis.......



Kyle Orton, QB, Purdue Sr 6-4, 233
By: Andy Silvester

Another QB here in the 3-7 range, who could still end up dotted from the bottom of the 2nd round to the top of the fifth. Orton began life as a true freshman starter and has played in all seasons since.

Positives
A true safety-first QB. Will never, ever force a deep ball or anything into double coverage unless it absolutely needs it (just 5 picks in his senior year). He has the field-reading skills of a 10 year NFL vet and can diagnose a blitz instantly, and is happy to sit in against it and make his reads. Good timing is a huge part of his play, especially in the underneath and short-medium range passes. He won’t even consider parting with the ball until he is certain his receiver is open, and may be on a par with plenty of NFL quarterbacks when it comes to play action – think ol’ Peyton but slightly less polished.


Negatives
One thing will stick out to NFL scouts – watching him throw a long ball is just plain painful. They’re either off target ( a long way ), underthrown so the receiver has to slow down to a crawl to receive it, or he sits in the pocket so long he gets snapped in two. Another warning sign has to be his benching towards the end of his senior season when it all fell apart rather briskly. One more slight knock is that he played almost all of his college career out of the shotgun spread offense, and will take a long time to adjust to the complexities of an NFL passing scheme.

Pro Potential
Orton is one of those QBs that you just know can be successful in a particular system. In a short to intermediate passing game he could well be a comfortable NFL starter as long as he can adjust to the rigours of the big league.

Best fit
Somewhere in a conservative system with plenty of underneath passes (think the Patriots) where he has a couple of years to learn his trade at a higher level. He gets those two – solid NFL QB in a few years.

Submit your comments on our NFL draft forums.

T.K.O.
04-29-2009, 08:12 PM
here's another.....


.In 2003, Orton was named the "Most Fearless Quarterback in the Big Ten Conference" by The Sporting News and was tabbed the "Most Accurate Passer, Strongest Arm and Coolest in the Clutch" in the Big Ten by Lindy's magazine. Kyle was named to the Davey O'Brien Award watch list (nation's outstanding quarterback) as he completed 251 of 414 passes (60.6%) for 2,885 yards with 15 touchdowns and just seven interceptions (interception percentage of 1.69 set a school record).

Simple Jaded
04-29-2009, 09:01 PM
That "True safety-first QB" has a career 3% Int average, the exact same average as the guy that doesn't fit Doogie's system because of his astronomical Int total.

If Orton's 08 Int %age held true, he'd of had 16 Int's in 616 attempts.......But hey, that's what they hired The System QuarterBack Whisperer for, right?.......

WARHORSE
04-29-2009, 09:19 PM
Lets hope we see him at his best.

Tned
04-29-2009, 09:21 PM
That "True safety-first QB" has a career 3% Int average, the exact same average as the guy that doesn't fit Doogie's system because of his astronomical Int total.

If Orton's 08 Int %age held true, he'd of had 16 Int's in 616 attempts.......But hey, that's what they hired The System QuarterBack Whisperer for, right?.......

I watched the first half of the CHI/Tampa game this evening on NFL Rewind, and garnered a few things from that. Granted, it was only one half, and I will watch more games over the next month or so, but here some initial thoughts:


The Bears O-line was horrid. There was barely a play where he didn't have to step up or scramble.
He is more mobile than I realized. He did a very good job of scrambling, and there was one play where he scrambled out of the pocket, drifting right, and when there was no play, ran about 15 yards for a first down+. I remembered him being less mobile.
He seemed to have no problem standing in the pocket and waiting to throw the ball and then get hit. In that small sample, I didn't see the nervous, happy feet that some QB's get under pressure.
He threw the ball away when there was no play and to avoid the sack.
He threw a couple medium-deep balls (30-40 yards in the air), and they were thrown with a minimal arch, not rainbows by any stretch. Granted they weren't 50+ yard bombs, but his arm did not seem weak at all. The throws were accurate, although one was muffed by the receiver and bounced into a DB's hand for an interception.
He seemed very comfortable scrambling and throwing on the run, with accuracy. I didn't see any across the body throws, and it appeared when he scrambles he is limited to one side of the field, but then again most QBs are. There are a few like Jay that have the arm to use the whole field when scrambling, but that's rare.
As the article above indicated, he seemed very comfortable with play action (straight drop play action, not bootlegs). Having Forte on the field probably helped that.
Chicago's WRs suck.


Anyway, I look forward to watching more games. It is hard to tell a lot about a QB when he is having to scramble on something like 3 out of 4 passes.

By the way, anyone that doesn't know, between now and June 30th or so, nfl.com has their rewind package (I think it was www.nfl.com/rewind ) and for $19.95 you can watch all the 2009 regular season and playoff games. They claim it is HD, and it 'sort of' is, and it comes up in a DVR style player were you can fast forward, rewind and pause.

I plan to watch more of Chicago games to get a feel for Orton, and then also some of NE's games to get a feel for McDaniel's system.

Broncolingus
04-29-2009, 09:23 PM
I'll give my opinion on Orton in Dec...

Interesting to see how Orton's going to do with a good O-line...

...oh, and likely a really shitty defense.

ikillz0mbies
04-29-2009, 09:25 PM
Great analysis Tned. Looking forward to more!

ikillz0mbies
04-29-2009, 09:37 PM
I'm watching Kyle Orton highlights on YouTube. A couple things I'd like to note myself:

-Orton has deceptive arm strength. He doesn't have a cannon for an arm like Cutler, but he does put a lot of zip on his throws
-He has good pocket presence. He will still make a good throw even with a defender in his face. He also doesn't worry about getting hit after the throw.
-Very accurate, even under pressure.

Pretty much stuff everyone here as heard about Orton. I am looking forward to watching him play this season (assuming he is the starter) and flourish with the pass happy system that McDaniels will install.

Simple Jaded
04-29-2009, 09:38 PM
I watched the first half of the CHI/Tampa game this evening on NFL Rewind, and garnered a few things from that. Granted, it was only one half, and I will watch more games over the next month or so, but here some initial thoughts:


The Bears O-line was horrid. There was barely a play where he didn't have to step up or scramble.
He is more mobile than I realized. He did a very good job of scrambling, and there was one play where he scrambled out of the pocket, drifting right, and when there was no play, ran about 15 yards for a first down+. I remembered him being less mobile.
He seemed to have no problem standing in the pocket and waiting to throw the ball and then get hit. In that small sample, I didn't see the nervous, happy feet that some QB's get under pressure.
He threw the ball away when there was no play and to avoid the sack.
He threw a couple medium-deep balls (30-40 yards in the air), and they were thrown with a minimal arch, not rainbows by any stretch. Granted they weren't 50+ yard bombs, but his arm did not seem weak at all. The throws were accurate, although one was muffed by the receiver and bounced into a DB's hand for an interception.
He seemed very comfortable scrambling and throwing on the run, with accuracy. I didn't see any across the body throws, and it appeared when he scrambles he is limited to one side of the field, but then again most QBs are. There are a few like Jay that have the arm to use the whole field when scrambling, but that's rare.
As the article above indicated, he seemed very comfortable with play action (straight drop play action, not bootlegs). Having Forte on the field probably helped that.
Chicago's WRs suck.


Anyway, I look forward to watching more games. It is hard to tell a lot about a QB when he is having to scramble on something like 3 out of 4 passes.

By the way, anyone that doesn't know, between now and June 30th or so, nfl.com has their rewind package (I think it was www.nfl.com/rewind ) and for $19.95 you can watch all the 2009 regular season and playoff games. They claim it is HD, and it 'sort of' is, and it comes up in a DVR style player were you can fast forward, rewind and pause.

I plan to watch more of Chicago games to get a feel for Orton, and then also some of NE's games to get a feel for McDaniel's system.

Did you see the Bears/Vikings game where he scrambled between RT and RG and threw a 5 yard bomb that hit a wide open DT right in stride? Check it out, it's the game where the defense and ST's damn near out-scored the offense. It's also the game where one of his WR's that suck took a 5 yard In for a 51 yard catch and run TD.

I've seen more of Kyle Orton than I care to remember, and not just his now infamous "Just as good or better than Cutler" 7 game streak.......

Shazam!
04-29-2009, 09:40 PM
We will see a different Kyle Orton in Denver than the one we saw in Chicago. I guarantee it.

MOtorboat
04-29-2009, 09:43 PM
Did you see the Bears/Vikings game where he scrambled between RT and RG and threw a 5 yard bomb that hit a wide open DT right in stride? Check it out, it's the game where the defense and ST's damn near out-scored the offense.

I've seen more of Kyle Orton than I care to remember, and not just his now infamous "Just as good or better than Cutler" 7 game streak.......

The sky is falling!

Simple Jaded
04-29-2009, 09:45 PM
The sky is falling!

Championship.......

MOtorboat
04-29-2009, 09:50 PM
Championship.......

Unlike you're doom and gloom, "Doogie" (whoever the **** that is) posts...where have I said we'd win a championship because of the move? Where? Point me to one point where I said we'd win a championship, and even more specifically this year's championship?

This oughtta be good.

:cricket:

I have consistently been about waiting to evaluate the moves until later on down the line, not condemning the moves before we even play a game.

You're going to spin this into some ridiculous argument about how I'm totally against Cutler, which I'm not, which I've proved.

There were errors in Cutler's game. There were errors in Shanahan's gameplan. Josh McDaniels saw that, and now, both are gone. Time to move on.

Newsflash: There are errors in Orton's game too.

Also Newsflash: We don't know if there are errors in McDaniels moves. We don't! Why? Because, and this apparently hasn't dawned on you yet, we haven't even played a game yet!

Ravage!!!
04-29-2009, 10:37 PM
I watched the first half of the CHI/Tampa game this evening on NFL Rewind, and garnered a few things from that. Granted, it was only one half, and I will watch more games over the next month or so, but here some initial thoughts:


The Bears O-line was horrid. There was barely a play where he didn't have to step up or scramble.
He is more mobile than I realized. He did a very good job of scrambling, and there was one play where he scrambled out of the pocket, drifting right, and when there was no play, ran about 15 yards for a first down+. I remembered him being less mobile.
He seemed to have no problem standing in the pocket and waiting to throw the ball and then get hit. In that small sample, I didn't see the nervous, happy feet that some QB's get under pressure.
He threw the ball away when there was no play and to avoid the sack.
He threw a couple medium-deep balls (30-40 yards in the air), and they were thrown with a minimal arch, not rainbows by any stretch. Granted they weren't 50+ yard bombs, but his arm did not seem weak at all. The throws were accurate, although one was muffed by the receiver and bounced into a DB's hand for an interception.
He seemed very comfortable scrambling and throwing on the run, with accuracy. I didn't see any across the body throws, and it appeared when he scrambles he is limited to one side of the field, but then again most QBs are. There are a few like Jay that have the arm to use the whole field when scrambling, but that's rare.
As the article above indicated, he seemed very comfortable with play action (straight drop play action, not bootlegs). Having Forte on the field probably helped that.
Chicago's WRs suck.


Anyway, I look forward to watching more games. It is hard to tell a lot about a QB when he is having to scramble on something like 3 out of 4 passes.

By the way, anyone that doesn't know, between now and June 30th or so, nfl.com has their rewind package (I think it was www.nfl.com/rewind ) and for $19.95 you can watch all the 2009 regular season and playoff games. They claim it is HD, and it 'sort of' is, and it comes up in a DVR style player were you can fast forward, rewind and pause.

I plan to watch more of Chicago games to get a feel for Orton, and then also some of NE's games to get a feel for McDaniel's system.

Thanks for the link.... bought and watching the Bears vs Indy first game of the season. So far... the Bears OL looks pretty damned good becaues they are running Forte left and right.

Tned
04-29-2009, 10:47 PM
Did you see the Bears/Vikings game where he scrambled between RT and RG and threw a 5 yard bomb that hit a wide open DT right in stride? Check it out, it's the game where the defense and ST's damn near out-scored the offense. It's also the game where one of his WR's that suck took a 5 yard In for a 51 yard catch and run TD.

I've seen more of Kyle Orton than I care to remember, and not just his now infamous "Just as good or better than Cutler" 7 game streak.......

No, as I said, so far, I have only watched the first half of the Tampa game.

I have no doubt he makes mistakes. In this game, he through two picks in the half. The first was about a 35 yard pass to forte (I believe) that hit him in the hands, but he muffed and it bounced into a defenders hads that was a hard behind him. The second INT was just a horrible decision and thrown right to a defender.

Part of that is football, though. Jay does it, Jake did it, Romo does it, Brady even has his 4 or 5 INT games once or twice a year.


Thanks for the link.... bought and watching the Bears vs Indy first game of the season. So far... the Bears OL looks pretty damned good becaues they are running Forte left and right.

I started with the Tampa game, because I knew I didn't have much time, and it looked like the first game of the year he threw a lot. Tampa was putting a lot of pressure on him. While I wasn't charting it and goofing on the internet at the same time, I would say in that half they were quite a bit pass heavy. Might have been because of TB's defense.


I'm watching Kyle Orton highlights on YouTube. A couple things I'd like to note myself:

-Orton has deceptive arm strength. He doesn't have a cannon for an arm like Cutler, but he does put a lot of zip on his throws
-He has good pocket presence. He will still make a good throw even with a defender in his face. He also doesn't worry about getting hit after the throw.
-Very accurate, even under pressure.

Pretty much stuff everyone here as heard about Orton. I am looking forward to watching him play this season (assuming he is the starter) and flourish with the pass happy system that McDaniels will install.

I had heard weak arm, so I was also surprised by somewhat deceptive arm strength. On the medium deep balls 30 yards, give or take, he more or less threw them on a rope, with very little arch. I didn't get to see him try a 50 yard pass, but on the short, medium, medium-long, he seemed to have plenty of zip and accuracy on the ball.

MOtorboat
04-29-2009, 10:49 PM
No, as I said, so far, I have only watched the first half of the Tampa game.

I have no doubt he makes mistakes. In this game, he through two picks in the half. The first was about a 35 yard pass to forte (I believe) that hit him in the hands, but he muffed and it bounced into a defenders hads that was a hard behind him. The second INT was just a horrible decision and thrown right to a defender.

Part of that is football, though. Jay does it, Jake did it, Romo does it, Brady even has his 4 or 5 INT games once or twice a year.



I started with the Tampa game, because I knew I didn't have much time, and it looked like the first game of the year he threw a lot. Tampa was putting a lot of pressure on him. While I wasn't charting it and goofing on the internet at the same time, I would say in that half they were quite a bit pass heavy. Might have been because of TB's defense.



I had heard weak arm, so I was also surprised by somewhat deceptive arm strength. On the medium deep balls 30 yards, give or take, he more or less threw them on a rope, with very little arch. I didn't get to see him try a 50 yard pass, but on the short, medium, medium-long, he seemed to have plenty of zip and accuracy on the ball.

Yeah, but what the hell do you know? :noidea:

Tned
04-29-2009, 10:56 PM
Yeah, but what the hell do you know? :noidea:

Pretty much everything...

MOtorboat
04-29-2009, 10:59 PM
Pretty much everything...

Exactly.

pwned.

Tned
04-29-2009, 11:10 PM
Exactly.

pwned.

Queen to bishop 3

MOtorboat
04-29-2009, 11:12 PM
Queen to bishop 3

Um, well that's a little above my intelligence level...so um, you're going to have to dumb it down for me. TIA.

Ravage!!!
04-29-2009, 11:12 PM
Queen to bishop 3

doh.... checkmate

omac
04-29-2009, 11:29 PM
let's get some positive momentum started! with mini-camps underway, the draft behind us, and most of the major offseason moves in the books.
i wanted to start a thread dedicated to supporting our "new look" broncos.
as you may or may not already know....i'm stoked about alot of the changes with the team this year.(not that i agree with all of them).
so i tjhought i'd post this interesting tidbit about our (likely) new starting qb.
i think it sums up pretty well why mcD thought he would be an adequate replacement for "the player"

PRE-DRAFT analysis.......



Kyle Orton, QB, Purdue Sr 6-4, 233
By: Andy Silvester

Another QB here in the 3-7 range, who could still end up dotted from the bottom of the 2nd round to the top of the fifth. Orton began life as a true freshman starter and has played in all seasons since.

Positives
A true safety-first QB. Will never, ever force a deep ball or anything into double coverage unless it absolutely needs it (just 5 picks in his senior year). He has the field-reading skills of a 10 year NFL vet and can diagnose a blitz instantly, and is happy to sit in against it and make his reads. Good timing is a huge part of his play, especially in the underneath and short-medium range passes. He won’t even consider parting with the ball until he is certain his receiver is open, and may be on a par with plenty of NFL quarterbacks when it comes to play action – think ol’ Peyton but slightly less polished.


Negatives
One thing will stick out to NFL scouts – watching him throw a long ball is just plain painful. They’re either off target ( a long way ), underthrown so the receiver has to slow down to a crawl to receive it, or he sits in the pocket so long he gets snapped in two. Another warning sign has to be his benching towards the end of his senior season when it all fell apart rather briskly. One more slight knock is that he played almost all of his college career out of the shotgun spread offense, and will take a long time to adjust to the complexities of an NFL passing scheme.

Pro Potential
Orton is one of those QBs that you just know can be successful in a particular system. In a short to intermediate passing game he could well be a comfortable NFL starter as long as he can adjust to the rigours of the big league.

Best fit
Somewhere in a conservative system with plenty of underneath passes (think the Patriots) where he has a couple of years to learn his trade at a higher level. He gets those two – solid NFL QB in a few years.

Submit your comments on our NFL draft forums.

Great find, TKO. :salute: I'd say that scout was pretty spot on. By nature, he's very risk averse, and that's why he's so good at the underneath and intermediate stuff and throwing the ball away, or even taking a sack if needed. Pair him up with a strong rushing threat like they did in Chicago with Forte and like McDaniels is doing now with Moreno, and a strong defense, and McDaniels will have the controlled offense he wants to run. I definitely believe the Bears should've gone with him over Grossman, given the strengths of their team.

Simple Jaded
04-30-2009, 02:33 AM
Unlike you're doom and gloom, "Doogie" (whoever the **** that is) posts...where have I said we'd win a championship because of the move? Where? Point me to one point where I said we'd win a championship, and even more specifically this year's championship?

This oughtta be good.

:cricket:



In all of my "Doogie" (whoever the **** that is) posts..", where have I said the sky is falling? Where? Point me to one point where I said "the sky is falling" anywhere.

This oughtta be good.......

broncobryce
04-30-2009, 02:54 AM
I guess when you hire an offensive coach, you get this........we'll see..boom or bust...
..

bcbronc
04-30-2009, 02:58 AM
That "True safety-first QB" has a career 3% Int average, the exact same average as the guy that doesn't fit Doogie's system because of his astronomical Int total.

If Orton's 08 Int %age held true, he'd of had 16 Int's in 616 attempts.......But hey, that's what they hired The System QuarterBack Whisperer for, right?.......


it's more about when and where than how many.

TXBRONC
04-30-2009, 08:38 AM
Here's something pre draft on Orton and Simms.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/Denver/WWHI/2009/wwhi042409.htm

Kyle Orton vs. Chris Simms could be a real battle
By Dan Parr
April 24, 2009


The way we hear it, the Broncos’ quarterback competition is very much a battle. Even though Kyle Orton is considered the front-runner to win the top job, head coach Josh McDaniels wasn’t just paying lip service when he called the duel “real.” Sources say Chris Simms looked good at the team’s recent minicamp and appeared to be ahead of Orton in terms of grasping McDaniels’ offense. Simms, who signed with the Broncos about a month before Orton was acquired from Chicago in the Jay Cutler deal, is in good shape and impressed observers. The picture could get even murkier if McDaniels and GM Brian Xanders decide to use one of their two first-round picks on a quarterback in this weekend’s draft. Orton has the most starting experience of the quarterbacks on the roster, but Simms, who has been through a great deal of adversity in his career, doesn’t appear to be ceding any ground in this fight.

T.K.O.
04-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Here's something pre draft on Orton and Simms.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/Denver/WWHI/2009/wwhi042409.htm

Kyle Orton vs. Chris Simms could be a real battle
By Dan Parr
April 24, 2009


The way we hear it, the Broncos’ quarterback competition is very much a battle. Even though Kyle Orton is considered the front-runner to win the top job, head coach Josh McDaniels wasn’t just paying lip service when he called the duel “real.” Sources say Chris Simms looked good at the team’s recent minicamp and appeared to be ahead of Orton in terms of grasping McDaniels’ offense. Simms, who signed with the Broncos about a month before Orton was acquired from Chicago in the Jay Cutler deal, is in good shape and impressed observers. The picture could get even murkier if McDaniels and GM Brian Xanders decide to use one of their two first-round picks on a quarterback in this weekend’s draft. Orton has the most starting experience of the quarterbacks on the roster, but Simms, who has been through a great deal of adversity in his career, doesn’t appear to be ceding any ground in this fight.

i sure hope the competition is a battle , thats whats been missing ,players fighting for a spot then fighting for wins! ive been saying it for quite a while.....the broncos have the talent to be great ,they just hav'nt shown the FIRE it takes to consistantly win !