Broncos Solution at Nose Tackle

[LTC Pain]

The NT position was not resolved thru the draft. Other than Marcus Thomas and a couple of UFAs what's the Broncos solution at NT to stuff the run?

[Ravage!!!]

The NT position was not resolved thru the draft. Other than Marcus Thomas and a couple of UFAs what's the Broncos solution at NT to stuff the run?

I have a hope for Powel, our last year's pick. He was an unmovable force in college. I also think that Baker may be in the running for that position.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Queen Latifa.

[CoachChaz]

Baker and Fields

[yardog]

:whoknows:

[Broncolingus]

:whoknows:

NS...

Methinks 'unknown' at this juncture...

...and a pretty big unknown at that.

[honz]

Bill Devaroe

[BigDaddyBronco]

Bill Devaroe
Correction: Bill Devaroe after drinking some Old Crow.

[G_Money]

Baker and Fields

I'd agree with that. Baker in future years, Fields this year. If Fields can't hack it by himself, J'Vonne Parker's probably his rotation mate for the year if he makes the final squad.

I still think we should run Thomas at DE, but we'll see what he looks like in camp I guess. He's another option there.

Baker interests me greatly for next year, but he has to not punch anyone this year first. I just wanna get past those first hurdles. ;)

~G

[Superchop 7]

Just giddy with confidence.......woohoo!!

[Dortoh]

I'd agree with that. Baker in future years, Fields this year. If Fields can't hack it by himself, J'Vonne Parker's probably his rotation mate for the year if he makes the final squad.

I still think we should run Thomas at DE, but we'll see what he looks like in camp I guess. He's another option there.

Baker interests me greatly for next year, but he has to not punch anyone this year first. I just wanna get past those first hurdles. ;)

~G

Agree on Thomas I believe he will be a better 3/4 DE then NT.

[NightTrainLayne]

Ronald Fields. I've never gone wrong with my adopted Bronco before. .. .even picked him before the draft. :D

[getlynched47]

I'll sack up and play Nose Tackle for the Broncos....even though I'm only 5'9 and 165 pounds :lol:

[Peerless]

Hayden Panettiere.

The offensive line would fall over just looking at how gorgeous she is.

[Ravage!!!]

Hayden Panettiere.

The offensive line would fall over just looking at how gorgeous she is.

Oh boy..... here to go with B6 and his crushes. Just glad he didn't say the basketball chic

[Tned]

Had to google her, didn't recognize the name.

Save the cheerleader, win the SB. I'm good with her at NT wearing the chearleading outfit. :D

[Ravage!!!]

Had to google her, didn't recognize the name.

Save the cheerleader, win the SB. I'm good with her at NT wearing the chearleading outfit. :D

at lease we know when they knock her block off, she'll heal up

[elsid13]

I'm pushing for open tryouts at Invesco's parking lot. The tryout checklist is simple:

1. Weigh over 320 pounds
2. Smell like you lived in Clay's closet for week
3. Able to down a bottle of old crow in 30 seconds
4. And he/she can not be color blind.
5. Willing to have their teeth filed into points.

[honz]

I'm pushing for open tryouts at Invesco's parking lot. The tryout checklist is simple:

1. Weigh over 320 pounds
2. Smell like you lived in Clay's closet for week
3. Able to down a bottle of old crow in 30 seconds
4. And he/she can not be color blind.
5. Willing to have their teeth filed into points.

Ummmm.....Bill Devaroe?

[deacon]

Why has everyone given up on Thomas as a NT? He's a bit light now but I'll bet he could put on some weight with no problem.

[Tned]

Why has everyone given up on Thomas as a NT? He's a bit light now but I'll bet he could put on some weight with no problem.

I figure he and Fields are the two most likely prospects for the NT spot.

[Poet]

You guys are screwed.

[hamrob]

I'd say our nose tackle is going to be DJ Williams and Adra Davis!

[dogfish]

You guys are screwed.



this means virtually nothing coming from a bengals fan. . . . :rofl:

[Poet]

this means virtually nothing coming from a bengals fan. . . . :rofl:

I sense a bet coming on.

Oh, and since I am a Bengals fan, I am an expert when it comes to seeing a team being screwed.

[D1g1tal j1m]

NT by committee!
Fields
Parker
Baker (if he makes the roster)

[Tned]

this means virtually nothing coming from a bengals fan. . . . :rofl:

Hey, has that rookie RB that the Bengals drafted punched any coaches yet?

[Poet]

Hey, has that rookie RB that the Bengals drafted punched any coaches yet?

I hope he punches Marvin Lewis in the face and puts Mike Brown in a chokehold.

[D1g1tal j1m]

I view Thomas and Powell as DE in the 3-4. They may rotate in when we run the 4-3 on certain downs but don't have the bellies to control the line in the NT position of the 3-4.

[omac]

I view Thomas and Powell as DE in the 3-4. They may rotate in when we run the 4-3 on certain downs but don't have the bellies to control the line in the NT position of the 3-4.

Yeah, I'm still hopeful that Thomas and Powell can solidify our line. Bellichick's mantra is "do your job"; I hope whoever the Broncos plug-in at NT won't need players to help him out. That's been happening way too much, players trying to cover up weaknesses in the line, the last 2 seasons.

[TXBRONC]

I figure he and Fields are the two most likely prospects for the NT spot.

I think Thomas would be a better at defensive end in a 3-4.

[JKcatch724]

NS...

Methinks 'unknown' at this juncture...

...and a pretty big unknown at that.

I'd say more like an undersized unknown :laugh:

[DenBronx]

this means virtually nothing coming from a bengals fan. . . . :rofl:

i actually agree with him. i dont think we did what was necessary to address the needs on defense. i just think their are too many questions with our linebackers and if they fit this scheme or not. same with the nt and de's. ayers played in a 4-3 at tenn right? scouts say he's versatile but what about thomas? this is basically a new learning curve for him too.

this could be really ugly. i think its going to take a couple of more years until we get better.

[MOtorboat]

No offense to this thread because I haven't read it, but I've been thinking about this recently, and here are my thoughts...Chris Baker isn't the answer, but maybe a rotation of the few players big enough to play the position are for this year. But, clearly, it needs to be addressed next year if those players aren't apt for the position.

For this year...I think we'll see more 4-3 than people think. Next year, I think we'll see the full change.

[NightTrainLayne]

Ronald Fields is just coming into his own in now his 3rd or 4th year. He's going to surprise a lot of folks. JMO.

[EMB6903]

No offense to this thread because I haven't read it, but I've been thinking about this recently, and here are my thoughts...Chris Baker isn't the answer, but maybe a rotation of the few players big enough to play the position are for this year. But, clearly, it needs to be addressed next year if those players aren't apt for the position.

For this year...I think we'll see more 4-3 than people think. Next year, I think we'll see the full change.

thats pretty much all we can count on...rotating defensive tackles and hoping it works out... hopefully Baker, Fields, and Thomas will all be productive in limited reps.

also is there an update on Marcus Thomas this off season? is he being asked to gain wieght?

[MOtorboat]

thats pretty much all we can count on...rotating defensive tackles and hoping it works out... hopefully Baker, Fields, and Thomas will all be productive in limited reps.

also is there an update on Marcus Thomas this off season? is he being asked to gain wieght?

I have not heard, but I really hope, with his athleticism that he plays the bookend DE position. He's got the talent to do it.

BUT, to do that, we have to find a NT.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

FWIW, Baker got most of his production at Hampton playing the "5" and not nose.

[DenBronx]

Ronald Fields is just coming into his own in now his 3rd or 4th year. He's going to surprise a lot of folks. JMO.

i think fields and powell are going to be rotating time at nt.

nolan will switch the defense from 3/4 or 4/3 depending on who we are playing. unlike coyer who was dumb as a rock and wouldnt change things up.

[Tned]

I think Thomas would be better at defensive end in a 3-4.

I agree he would be better as an end, but we might not have that luxury.

Baker is a long shot at best. The most likely option is Fields, but if he doesn't pan out, then Thomas probably has the job.

What I have been saying since the draft is that I think the front three will likely be Thomas, Fields, Ayers and if ayers isn't ready to start at DE day one, then Powell/Peterson man that other end spot.

[EMB6903]

FWIW, Baker got most of his production at Hampton playing the "5" and not nose.

He was playing de at Hampton? thats surprising.

[Tned]

He was playing de at Hampton? thats surprising.

I know ESPN had him listed as an end.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

He moved around, but he played the five quite a bit there.

[Tned]

He moved around, but he played the five quite a bit there.

Where do the ends in a 3-4 lineup vs. a 4-3? Are they basically the same, with the NT taking on more of the middle, or are the ends squeezed in a bit closer to the tackle?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Always variation because of gap assignments. Gap assignments are going to be different in a 4-3 as opposed to a 3-4; obviously because you lack one defender on the DL in a 3-4. When I state five technique, it means the defensive end is going to have his nose on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle. It's extremely complex, there are actually line-up variations within the 3-4 itself. (For example, Dallas' 3-4 is a different than the one we'll see under Nolan mainly because of gap responsibility.) From what I know and have experienced, 4-3 defensive ends line up way more wide than in a 3-4.

I know this post is ambiguous and really didn't help much, but it's almost 1 AM and I can't even think straight. Hope it helps a little.

[broncobryce]

I gotta say, Josh is a genius right? Otherwise this looks brutal. I understand the 'we run what works best against their offense.' But you can only count on coaching so long. I've been quiet because I have no idea what they are doing, but I don't understand it. I will wait until the unit takes the field as usual.But it doesn't look good.

[broncofaninfla]

Fields, Parker and Baker. Also give Powell a shot here. Move Thomas to DE.

[Tned]

Fields, Parker and Baker. Also give Powell a shot here. Move Thomas to DE.

That's the ideal, if they can pull it off. Here's the way our defense will look.





Thomas Fields Ayers/Powell

Harris/Moss Davis DJ Doom


Bailey Dawkins Hill Goodman

[Fan in Exile]

What's it going to take for Peterson and Askew to get some love from people's projections. They were the ones starting at DE during mini-camp after all.

[MOtorboat]

That's the ideal, if they can pull it off. Here's the way our defense will look.





Thomas Fields Ayers/Powell

Harris/Moss Davis DJ Doom


Bailey Dawkins Hill Goodman


What's it going to take for Peterson and Askew to get some love from people's projections. They were the ones starting at DE during mini-camp after all.

Ideally...imo...on opening day

It would be:
Thomas/Fields/Peterson

Ayers/Davis/D.J./Doom

Bailey/Dawkins/Hill/Goodman

Ideally, down the road, you want it to look along the lines of:
Thomas/Baker/Powell

?/Davis/D.J./Ayers

Bailey/Dawkins/Hill/Smith

I don't think Doom will end up being a great outside linebacker. I hope he does, but I don't see it, so I think Denver needs to find one more guy. For now though, having the ability to put Ayers and Doom at the two OLB positions, gives us the ability to go to a four-man front without switching personnel, from either side of the ball. I would love to see Denver lining up in a 3-4, and then when the qb goes under center, a subtle line shift and one of those guys moves up and puts his hand on the ground. That would be awesome.

Also, Smith/McBath absolutely HAVE to be our Nickel and Dime this year, if not...I see trouble and a lot of pissed off fans.

[LTC Pain]

Who is "Doom"? I've been a Bronco fan for several years but don't know many of the players by their nicknames.

[Fan in Exile]

Who is "Doom"? I've been a Bronco fan for several years but don't know many of the players by their nicknames.

Elvis Dumerville it plays off of the sound of the first part of his last name, as well as the sacks he got his first year.

[Dortoh]

Powell will be given a shot at NT IMO. He is extreamly strong at the point of attack. Holds ground better then his weight would indicate. This kid was a brick wall in college. Of course now we see if that translates to the NFL.

He is going to surprise alot of you who have forgotten about this pick.

[NightTrainLayne]

Powell will be given a shot at NT IMO. He is extreamly strong at the point of attack. Holds ground better then his weight would indicate. This kid was a brick wall in college. Of course now we see if that translates to the NFL.

He is going to surprise alot of you who have forgotten about this pick.

I agree. I think we've got a couple of "under the radar" guys that will surprise a lot of folks with Powell and Fields.

Nolan bringing Fields with him from SF says a lot to me when coupled with the fact that he was moved around some in SF and is still just in his 3rd-4th season. He might not be a pro-bowler at this point, but he's in a position that takes some time to develop, and he's put in the time. I'm really interested to see him and Powell on the field.

It's so funny that after so many years of people on these boards clammoring for us to switch to a 3-4 and being shouted down because we didn't have the pieces. .. now we've got the pieces to make the switch. Are we going to be world-beaters on defense? No, I don't think so, but I think we can take 3-4 steps forward and get to a middle-of-the-pack defense instead of a door-mat like we've been for the last two seasons.

August can't get here quickly enough.

[Tned]

Ideally...imo...on opening day

It would be:
Thomas/Fields/Peterson

Ayers/Davis/D.J./Doom

Bailey/Dawkins/Hill/Goodman

Ideally, down the road, you want it to look along the lines of:
Thomas/Baker/Powell

?/Davis/D.J./Ayers

Bailey/Dawkins/Hill/Smith

I don't think Doom will end up being a great outside linebacker. I hope he does, but I don't see it, so I think Denver needs to find one more guy. For now though, having the ability to put Ayers and Doom at the two OLB positions, gives us the ability to go to a four-man front without switching personnel, from either side of the ball. I would love to see Denver lining up in a 3-4, and then when the qb goes under center, a subtle line shift and one of those guys moves up and puts his hand on the ground. That would be awesome.

Also, Smith/McBath absolutely HAVE to be our Nickel and Dime this year, if not...I see trouble and a lot of pissed off fans.


I'm expecting Ayers to be a DE, not an OLB. Only time will tell, but I think that's where they will try and get the fit.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I think Ayers will get to see time with his hand down and up, but it sounded like Josh was confident he could play the 5 quite well. He has versatility, so I don't think he'll always have a set position; probably will depend on the package.

FWIW, I think one of the reasons Denver didn't actively pursue a lot of high round players on the DL is because they have a lot of bodies right now. Nobody really knows how they fit into the system yet, so we are going to give them the chance. If these guys we have don't work so well, I think we'll see more emphasis placed in FA and the Draft in 2010 for helping out the team. Hopefully Thomas, Powell, etc. will all pan out and work here!

[nevcraw]

I'll sack up and play Nose Tackle for the Broncos....even though I'm only 5'9 and 165 pounds :lol:


that explains the complex! :laugh::lol:

[Nomad]

I think Ayers will get to see time with his hand down and up, but it sounded like Josh was confident he could play the 5 quite well. He has versatility, so I don't think he'll always have a set position; probably will depend on the package.

FWIW, I think one of the reasons Denver didn't actively pursue a lot of high round players on the DL is because they have a lot of bodies right now. Nobody really knows how they fit into the system yet, so we are going to give them the chance. If these guys we have don't work so well, I think we'll see more emphasis placed in FA and the Draft in 2010 for helping out the team. Hopefully Thomas, Powell, etc. will all pan out and work here!

I believe this to be true as well! Alot of places I read, here included, wonder why Denver didn't pursue Raji.......well what you mention is probably one of the factors plus GB was set on Raji and I'm sure GB would have asked for too much, more than what the BRONCOS were willing to give!

[broncofaninfla]

I hope that Ayers is better suited to play DE for us but with LB coach Martindale calling him on draft day it seems to indicate he will get his shot as a OLB first.

[rcsodak]

Why has everyone given up on Thomas as a NT? He's a bit light now but I'll bet he could put on some weight with no problem.

Personally I don't want to lose his athleticism, and that's what would happen at NT!

You need big, fat, strong, immovable objects...



....like John Goodman.

[rcsodak]

I agree he would be better as an end, but we might not have that luxury.

Baker is a long shot at best. The most likely option is Fields, but if he doesn't pan out, then Thomas probably has the job.

What I have been saying since the draft is that I think the front three will likely be Thomas, Fields, Ayers and if ayers isn't ready to start at DE day one, then Powell/Peterson man that other end spot.

Ayers? Isn't he kinda small to be DE in a 34?

Thought they were bringing him in to be an OLB & 5?

[Tned]

Ayers? Isn't he kinda small to be DE in a 34?

Thought they were bringing him in to be an OLB & 5?

They said on draft day that they believe he can play 20lbs heavier, which puts him in the range.

[Dortoh]

Ayers has the ability to play 3/4 de if he adds some weight to his frame which is very possible

But as for now he would get killed as a 3/4 de. I would be shocked to not see him at LB'er atleast for a year.

[rcsodak]

They said on draft day that they believe he can play 20lbs heavier, which puts him in the range.

Just as long as it wasn't Mayock.

:rolleyes:

[Superchop 7]

Yup, still no answers.

Pathetic.

[honz]

Yup, still no answers.

Pathetic.

Rookies wouldn't be sure answers either. Just ask Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder.

[MOtorboat]

Yup, still no answers.

Pathetic.

What do you propose?

[Tned]

Just as long as it wasn't Mayock.

:rolleyes:

No, it was that guy running the Broncos. Can't remember the name, starts with M and sounds kind of like McDonalds.... ;)

[Joel]

Why has everyone given up on Thomas as a NT? He's a bit light now but I'll bet he could put on some weight with no problem.
I haven't been able to see him play much, but everything I've ever heard on him is that he's less about bowling over the offensive line than working around it. Multiple techniques, agile movement (or as agile as you can be at 305) not brute force. Even if he packed on 15 or 20 pounds to have the inertia you want in a NT, I think doing so might ruin the natural talents that provide his value as a pro athlete. I'm not saying he couldn't be a NT, at least temporarily, but I doubt he'd excel there, which he very well might as a 3-4 DE, as it seems much better suited to his strengths.

No offense to this thread because I haven't read it, but I've been thinking about this recently, and here are my thoughts...Chris Baker isn't the answer, but maybe a rotation of the few players big enough to play the position are for this year. But, clearly, it needs to be addressed next year if those players aren't apt for the position.

For this year...I think we'll see more 4-3 than people think. Next year, I think we'll see the full change.
I'm inclined to agree with this as well. What I've gleaned from the draft discussion is that were only a couple of top tier NTs in the draft and we were in the wrong position to get them, so we didn't waste Day One picks on scrubs just to say we had a NT. Someone referenced all the "clamoring" for a 3-4 in past seasons despite us not having the horses; well, I STILL don't think we have the horses because of the NT issue, but I remember those debates and the consensus that it would take 2-3 years to get us in position to do that. This is Year One, or maybe Year Two if you see Doom, Crowder and/or Moss as our starters at OLB and Thomas as one of our DEs.

The guys we've had at DT the past few years trying to out-move guards and centers on the interior line because they lacked the mass to blow them up would, IMHO, be a lot more effective as 3-4 DEs--but we still need the one thing that would've made them more effective as UTs in our 4-3: A dominating crushing NT. Once we lick that problem, and I think it'll take two quality players because I don't see any one guy standing up to the abuse every down all season (think Casey Hampton and Chris Hoke in Pitt before the latter went to SD), I'll feel pretty good about our front seven. At this point I'm more worried about pass coverage in a 3-4, particularly inside, than pass rushing from the OLBs (I could wish for a little more mass there for run stuffing, but Ayers and Crowder might provide that.) We may have to take our lumps with a hybrid D for another year before that happens though. It's the one thing I don't like about giving up our first pick next year; it could be a very good pick indeed if this is a rebuild year. But it's become clear the Seahawks wanted OUR pick, not the lesser or two first rounders, not even the better of two: OURS. The staff saw a guy they could use to great advantage and decided they'd rather have a live player than a first round pick at an unknown spot in an unknown draft.

[Fan in Exile]

I haven't been able to see him play much, but everything I've ever heard on him is that he's less about bowling over the offensive line than working around it. Multiple techniques, agile movement (or as agile as you can be at 305) not brute force. Even if he packed on 15 or 20 pounds to have the inertia you want in a NT, I think doing so might ruin the natural talents that provide his value as a pro athlete. I'm not saying he couldn't be a NT, at least temporarily, but I doubt he'd excel there, which he very well might as a 3-4 DE, as it seems much better suited to his strengths.

I'm inclined to agree with this as well. What I've gleaned from the draft discussion is that were only a couple of top tier NTs in the draft and we were in the wrong position to get them, so we didn't waste Day One picks on scrubs just to say we had a NT. Someone referenced all the "clamoring" for a 3-4 in past seasons despite us not having the horses; well, I STILL don't think we have the horses because of the NT issue, but I remember those debates and the consensus that it would take 2-3 years to get us in position to do that. This is Year One, or maybe Year Two if you see Doom, Crowder and/or Moss as our starters at OLB and Thomas as one of our DEs.

The guys we've had at DT the past few years trying to out-move guards and centers on the interior line because they lacked the mass to blow them up would, IMHO, be a lot more effective as 3-4 DEs--but we still need the one thing that would've made them more effective as UTs in our 4-3: A dominating crushing NT. Once we lick that problem, and I think it'll take two quality players because I don't see any one guy standing up to the abuse every down all season (think Casey Hampton and Chris Hoke in Pitt before the latter went to SD), I'll feel pretty good about our front seven. At this point I'm more worried about pass coverage in a 3-4, particularly inside, than pass rushing from the OLBs (I could wish for a little more mass there for run stuffing, but Ayers and Crowder might provide that.) We may have to take our lumps with a hybrid D for another year before that happens though. It's the one thing I don't like about giving up our first pick next year; it could be a very good pick indeed if this is a rebuild year. But it's become clear the Seahawks wanted OUR pick, not the lesser or two first rounders, not even the better of two: OURS. The staff saw a guy they could use to great advantage and decided they'd rather have a live player than a first round pick at an unknown spot in an unknown draft.

I don't think there really were any top tier NT in this draft. At least none that clearly stood out. The two big questions about Raji are can he play as a two gapper in a 3-4 which wasn't what he played in college and might not fit his skill set, and could he play without Brace beside him.

Brace really seemed at best to be a 2nd round guy. Even there he had questions. Like what could he do without Raji, and could he be anything other than a two down player. After that the talent really went down hill.

I would say that we can expect as much from Baker has we could have from almost anyone who got drafted. At least as long as he doesn't get suspended.

[bcbronc]

Ideally...imo...on opening day

It would be:
Thomas/Fields/Peterson

Ayers/Davis/D.J./Doom

Bailey/Dawkins/Hill/Goodman

Ideally, down the road, you want it to look along the lines of:
Thomas/Baker/Powell
.

that's more or less exactly how I see it, although I wouldn't be shocked if Powell or Askew were better fits at DE than Thomas. If that happens, I can see Thomas getting shopped around for a 3rd-4th rounder next year. if we can't get that though, he's worth keeping for the 43 or nickle. but that's only if he doesn't win the starting position outright.


Personally I don't want to lose his athleticism, and that's what would happen at NT!

You need big, fat, strong, immovable objects...



....like John Goodman.

I'd prefer Roseanne Barr myself. NT needs attitude.

[bcbronc]

I would say that we can expect as much from Baker has we could have from almost anyone who got drafted. At least as long as he doesn't get suspended.

the more I read on Baker, the more it sounds like the character concerns are a thing of the past. now he's got the added chip on his shoulder of not being drafted. I'm excited about this kid. in 2-3 years he could be a blue-chip NT in this league, and it sounds like he's versatile enough to see reps at DE while he's developing.

[honz]

I didn't realize that Thomas is listed at 305 pounds. He is already in the NT range weight wise, although he could stand to get a little heavier. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets lined up at NT on 3rd down...see if he can use that athleticism and collapse the pocket a little bit. I've never seen Fields play, but he sounds like more of a run stuffer.

[TXBRONC]

the more I read on Baker, the more it sounds like the character concerns are a thing of the past. now he's got the added chip on his shoulder of not being drafted. I'm excited about this kid. in 2-3 years he could be a blue-chip NT in this league, and it sounds like he's versatile enough to see reps at DE while he's developing.

He may be put on the practice squad.

[rcsodak]

that's more or less exactly how I see it, although I wouldn't be shocked if Powell or Askew were better fits at DE than Thomas. If that happens, I can see Thomas getting shopped around for a 3rd-4th rounder next year. if we can't get that though, he's worth keeping for the 43 or nickle. but that's only if he doesn't win the starting position outright.



I'd prefer Roseanne Barr myself. NT needs attitude.

OMG!!!!!!


We don't want blood on the field!!!!!!!!

[rcsodak]

I didn't realize that Thomas is listed at 305 pounds. He is already in the NT range weight wise, although he could stand to get a little heavier. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets lined up at NT on 3rd down...see if he can use that athleticism and collapse the pocket a little bit. I've never seen Fields play, but he sounds like more of a run stuffer.

Richard Seymour, pats, is 6'6, 310, and a DE!

Ideally, NT's need to be 325+ and strong as hell if they're going to be used as cloggers. They're taking on both the center AND the guard.

Personally, I think they should bring in a couple SUMO wrestlers.....


.....pay 'em with free room/board and all they can eat buffets, and they'll be happy as larks!

[honz]

Richard Seymour, pats, is 6'6, 310, and a DE!

Ideally, NT's need to be 325+ and strong as hell if they're going to be used as cloggers. They're taking on both the center AND the guard.

Personally, I think they should bring in a couple SUMO wrestlers.....


.....pay 'em with free room/board and all they can eat buffets, and they'll be happy as larks!

He definitely needs to get bigger if he is gonna be a full time NT, but he is bigger than I thought he was. I thought he was more in the 290 range.

[Spiritguy]

the more I read on Baker, the more it sounds like the character concerns are a thing of the past. now he's got the added chip on his shoulder of not being drafted. I'm excited about this kid. in 2-3 years he could be a blue-chip NT in this league, and it sounds like he's versatile enough to see reps at DE while he's developing.

Here is a Q&A with Baker from before the Combine. so take some of it with a grain of salt. It will be interesting to see if he can make the 53. He says his strength is against the run and that is Powell's as well. COULD be a formidable group in a few years.

Q&A: Chris Baker, DT, Hampton
Written by NFL Draft Bible
Thursday, 19 February 2009

Why did you decide to enter the NFL Draft?
It was a hard decision. I talked it over with my parents and thought it was best if I left this year. I prayed about it and felt that leaving this year was best for me. I felt like I had a good chance to get drafted pretty high in the draft. I don’t think if I stayed at Hampton my draft stock could get much higher. I did so well this year and felt like it is my time to go to the NFL.

How is your training going?
I have been training hard for the last few months preparing for the NFL Combine. The workouts have been challenging but it is making me a lot faster and stronger – I am ready to impress the NFL teams with what I bring to the table.

Who is your agent/agency and what factors went into your decision?
Tony Paige at Perennial Sports & Entertainment . There were many factors that went into my decision. I needed someone who had experience in doing big contracts. I needed someone who could give me some personal attention. I didn’t want an agent who just does contracts and that’s it. I wanted an agent who I can call and talk about anything and a agent who can prepare me for life after football. I wanted an agent who has a lot of good relationships with the major decision makers in the NFL and outside of the NFL.

What is the highlight of your career?
The highlight of my career is overcoming all the adversity that I went through. Leaving Penn State and starting fresh at Hampton was very hard for me to deal with at first. I always wanted to play for Penn State and it all got taken away from me for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, God had a plan for my life and I had to make the best of the situation. God led me to Hampton and I have done so well on the field and off the field. I wanted to prove to people that I am not the man that the media portrayed. The fact that I overcame my situation, had a great season and made good grades in school was the highlight of my career.

What position do you like playing the best?
I can’t really say that there is one position that I love the most. I have the strength and the body to play the 1 technique or 3 technique. I also have the quickness and the strength to play the 5 technique. I love playing football so wherever I end up - whether it is on the inside or the outside - I will adjust and do well.

What do you feel are your strengths as a player?
I feel that I am excellent at stopping the run – I take pride in it. If you stop the run, then you force the team to pass the ball and that’s when the game becomes fun. You can pin your ears back and get to the QB – I love pass rushing and disrupting plays. Also, I have a continuous motor and I play the game with incredible passion – I am truly blessed to have the opportunity to play on the next level.

Where did you grow up?
I grew up in Hartford, CT and Windsor, CT. I grew up playing basketball my whole life – I used my athleticism and size so it was fun. I tried football my junior year thanks to my best friend Terrance Knighton (DT) from Temple. I fell in love with football – it was especially rewarding because my college education was paid for because of my hard work on the field – that made my parents very proud.

Tell us about your family background and your role models.
I come from a great family - my mom and dad are great parents. They kept me in church when I was younger and showed me who God is and I’m thankful for that. My parents have been there for me my whole life through thick and thin. They have supported me and my siblings throughout our lives. It was hard raising two kids that played AAU basketball. They are the greatest.

One of my role models is my AAU basketball coach Dana Wright. He was a big inspiration in my life. He was one of the most successful African American males that has impacted my life. I stayed with him almost every weekend. His son Kyle Wright is one of my best friends. Coach Wright and his family taught me a lot about being a good man.

What do you like to do for fun?
I love to play my PS3. I play Madden 09, NBA 2k9, and NCAA 09. I’m pretty good at them all – I am willing to take on any challengers. I also love to listen to music – I enjoy all types of music.

What are your overall goals between now and Draft Day?
I just want to work hard to put myself in the best position on draft day. I have been pushing myself twice a day to become the best defensive lineman in the draft. I believe if the GM’s and scouts watch my film and find out the kind of person I am they will fall in love. I want to clear up all of the off the field issues and answer all the questions that many have about what actually happened while I was at PSU. I want to let America know the “Real Chris Baker.”

[dogfish]

you really do have to take these kinds of interviews with a serious grain of salt, but at least he's smart enough to say the right things-- he comes off as a decent kid. . . . i actually like this UDFA signing better than most of our draft picks past the first round. . . . he has the physical skills to be a legit NFL player, he cost us basically nothing, and there's little to no risk involved. . . . it's going to be a huge jump from hampton to facing NFL competition, but if he works hard enough he has a chance to make it. . . .

[Lonestar]

you really do have to take these kinds of interviews with a serious grain of salt, but at least he's smart enough to say the right things-- he comes off as a decent kid. . . . i actually like this UDFA signing better than most of our draft picks past the first round. . . . he has the physical skills to be a legit NFL player, he cost us basically nothing, and there's little to no risk involved. . . . it's going to be a huge jump from hampton to facing NFL competition, but if he works hard enough he has a chance to make it. . . .


YET IIRC he played very well at PSU just got into trouble there if that is the case then he played against some pretty good talent..

I think at worst he is a rotational guy until we can draft the/a Big Kahuna over the next few years..

[dogfish]

YET IIRC he played very well at PSU just got into trouble there if that is the case then he played against some pretty good talent..

I think at worst he is a rotational guy until we can draft the/a Big Kahuna over the next few years..

that's correct, he started out at penn state-- he started eight games in '07 and was reportedly solid, had decent production. . . . he was projected as high as the 3rd round based just o talent, and character concerns obviously played a role in his draft day plummet-- there's no real way to determine whether concerns about his football ability also contributed to that fall, unless some new information comes out. . . in an case, i usually try not to put TOO much faith in UDFAs to make much of a contribution, but i admit that i'll be interested to see what he can do-- he sounds like a guy that has a chance to earn a spot. . . . it's not like the competition on our D-line is exactly overwhelming ATM. . . . :rolleyes:

[Lonestar]

that's correct, he started out at penn state-- he started eight games in '07 and was reportedly solid, had decent production. . . . he was projected as high as the 3rd round based just o talent, and character concerns obviously played a role in his draft day plummet-- there's no real way to determine whether concerns about his football ability also contributed to that fall, unless some new information comes out. . . in an case, i usually try not to put TOO much faith in UDFAs to make much of a contribution, but i admit that i'll be interested to see what he can do-- he sounds like a guy that has a chance to earn a spot. . . . it's not like the competition on our D-line is exactly overwhelming ATM. . . . :rolleyes:


Yet I have to wonder IF the underwhelming performances there over the years is not a combination of an almost total lack of scheme and coaching of them..

We all know that mike has has a hard on for LB over the years.. every year since the super bowl years when we had some retreads up there we have relied on LB to save our asses..

I bet that some of the talent we have is/might turn out to be pretty good with decent coaching..

Do not get me wrong I see NO ALL Pro's in the group yet.. but who knows if they play TEAM football they may surprise the hell out of alot of folks..

Because of all the hoopla this off season, I'll bet that the broncos will be flying well below the radar of most teams coming up this year and we may surprise a few of them..

I'm not talking about playoffs here but having a solid growing getting to know each other season and few if any blowouts like in years past..

I also do not see them ever going into a game feeling like they can whip them with one hand behind their back.. This new guy seems to have a intensity I have not seen on the sidelines for years..

Time will tell..

[TXBRONC]

you really do have to take these kinds of interviews with a serious grain of salt, but at least he's smart enough to say the right things-- he comes off as a decent kid. . . . i actually like this UDFA signing better than most of our draft picks past the first round. . . . he has the physical skills to be a legit NFL player, he cost us basically nothing, and there's little to no risk involved. . . . it's going to be a huge jump from hampton to facing NFL competition, but if he works hard enough he has a chance to make it. . . .

Exactly, a guy having confidence in what he can do and how he actually preforms wont necessarily be the same thing. That being said confidence is good thing to have if you want to play in the NFL.

[elsid13]

I still have problem with his past, hopefully he doesn't cause any more problem because he appears he has talent to be rotational guy. He will have very little margin for error with me after what he did.

For those are interested - Outside the lines -
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/clip?id=3506616&categoryid=null

[horsepig]

I agree in principle with what you're saying JR. The whole "scheme" has been so unbelievably FU'ed the last 3,5,7 years. Mikey's downfall was as simple as 1+1=2. Bad STs and no identity what-so-ever on defense for how long?

Coyer, Rhodes, Bates, Slowik, & excuse after ewxcuse. Give one guy (I would actually like to see what Rick Dennison could do as a DC) the reins and lets get some identity and consistancy and some real kickass intensity back in the Defense. You can't have any intensity while switching DC's every effing year and then blowing 2 or 3 high picks on d-linemen you saw play in a bowl game.

[Watchthemiddle]

Baker = steal of the draft.

[Tned]

Baker = steal of the draft.

Let's hope so.

[Lonestar]

Baker = steal After the draft.

Edited for accuracy, because he was not drafted..

[Dean]

Yet I have to wonder IF the underwhelming performances there over the years is not a combination of an almost total lack of scheme and coaching of them..

I hope that the cure for the worst defense all time is simply a defensive coordinator, some second and third tier players, and a rookie DE/OLB. However, I think it goes much deeper than that.

When McKid came in he cut a multitude of people. No one else has rushed to aquire them. Maybe there was not much talent on the team for the coordinator to employ.


We all know that mike has has a hard on for LB over the years.. every year since the super bowl years when we had some retreads up there we have relied on LB to save our asses..

I bet that some of the talent we have is/might turn out to be pretty good with decent coaching..

Once again, I hope that you are right that there is "hidden" talent to not only excell but to do it in a new defensive scheme.



Do not get me wrong I see NO ALL Pro's in the group yet.. but who knows if they play TEAM football they may surprise the hell out of alot of folks..

True, if the defense can take away even one phase of the offense (either pass or run), we could show significant improvement.



Because of all the hoopla this off season, I'll bet that the broncos will be flying well below the radar of most teams coming up this year and we may surprise a few of them..


When you look at the apparent quality of next year's schedule it isn't going to be an easy task. IMO on paper, at least, we are highly over matched.



I'm not talking about playoffs here but having a solid growing getting to know each other season and few if any blowouts like in years past..

That would definitely help the fans psyche but an L is an L whether it is by 1 point in overtime or by 50 in regulation.



I also do not see them ever going into a game feeling like they can whip them with one hand behind their back.. This new guy seems to have a intensity I have not seen on the sidelines for years..

Time will tell..

I am hoping for the best and looking for evidence of improvement but all the while keeping my expectations in check.

:defense: :rockon:

[Fan in Exile]

Here is a Q&A with Baker from before the Combine. so take some of it with a grain of salt. It will be interesting to see if he can make the 53. He says his strength is against the run and that is Powell's as well. COULD be a formidable group in a few years.

Q&A: Chris Baker, DT, Hampton
Written by NFL Draft Bible
Thursday, 19 February 2009

Why did you decide to enter the NFL Draft?
It was a hard decision. I talked it over with my parents and thought it was best if I left this year. I prayed about it and felt that leaving this year was best for me. I felt like I had a good chance to get drafted pretty high in the draft. I don’t think if I stayed at Hampton my draft stock could get much higher. I did so well this year and felt like it is my time to go to the NFL.

How is your training going?
I have been training hard for the last few months preparing for the NFL Combine. The workouts have been challenging but it is making me a lot faster and stronger – I am ready to impress the NFL teams with what I bring to the table.

Who is your agent/agency and what factors went into your decision?
Tony Paige at Perennial Sports & Entertainment . There were many factors that went into my decision. I needed someone who had experience in doing big contracts. I needed someone who could give me some personal attention. I didn’t want an agent who just does contracts and that’s it. I wanted an agent who I can call and talk about anything and a agent who can prepare me for life after football. I wanted an agent who has a lot of good relationships with the major decision makers in the NFL and outside of the NFL.

What is the highlight of your career?
The highlight of my career is overcoming all the adversity that I went through. Leaving Penn State and starting fresh at Hampton was very hard for me to deal with at first. I always wanted to play for Penn State and it all got taken away from me for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, God had a plan for my life and I had to make the best of the situation. God led me to Hampton and I have done so well on the field and off the field. I wanted to prove to people that I am not the man that the media portrayed. The fact that I overcame my situation, had a great season and made good grades in school was the highlight of my career.

What position do you like playing the best?
I can’t really say that there is one position that I love the most. I have the strength and the body to play the 1 technique or 3 technique. I also have the quickness and the strength to play the 5 technique. I love playing football so wherever I end up - whether it is on the inside or the outside - I will adjust and do well.

What do you feel are your strengths as a player?
I feel that I am excellent at stopping the run – I take pride in it. If you stop the run, then you force the team to pass the ball and that’s when the game becomes fun. You can pin your ears back and get to the QB – I love pass rushing and disrupting plays. Also, I have a continuous motor and I play the game with incredible passion – I am truly blessed to have the opportunity to play on the next level.

Where did you grow up?
I grew up in Hartford, CT and Windsor, CT. I grew up playing basketball my whole life – I used my athleticism and size so it was fun. I tried football my junior year thanks to my best friend Terrance Knighton (DT) from Temple. I fell in love with football – it was especially rewarding because my college education was paid for because of my hard work on the field – that made my parents very proud.

Tell us about your family background and your role models.
I come from a great family - my mom and dad are great parents. They kept me in church when I was younger and showed me who God is and I’m thankful for that. My parents have been there for me my whole life through thick and thin. They have supported me and my siblings throughout our lives. It was hard raising two kids that played AAU basketball. They are the greatest.

One of my role models is my AAU basketball coach Dana Wright. He was a big inspiration in my life. He was one of the most successful African American males that has impacted my life. I stayed with him almost every weekend. His son Kyle Wright is one of my best friends. Coach Wright and his family taught me a lot about being a good man.

What do you like to do for fun?
I love to play my PS3. I play Madden 09, NBA 2k9, and NCAA 09. I’m pretty good at them all – I am willing to take on any challengers. I also love to listen to music – I enjoy all types of music.

What are your overall goals between now and Draft Day?
I just want to work hard to put myself in the best position on draft day. I have been pushing myself twice a day to become the best defensive lineman in the draft. I believe if the GM’s and scouts watch my film and find out the kind of person I am they will fall in love. I want to clear up all of the off the field issues and answer all the questions that many have about what actually happened while I was at PSU. I want to let America know the “Real Chris Baker.”


I would be a lot happier if he didn't blame it on being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't know the details, but even if that's the case, he made the choice to be there. That's the kind of blame shifting that could be a warning sign.

[Cugel]

Queen Latifa.

I don't know. She might have to slim down a bit to play NT. Don't they have to be around 350 or so? :laugh:

[Cugel]

that's correct, he started out at penn state-- he started eight games in '07 and was reportedly solid, had decent production. . . . he was projected as high as the 3rd round based just o talent, and character concerns obviously played a role in his draft day plummet-- there's no real way to determine whether concerns about his football ability also contributed to that fall, unless some new information comes out. . . in an case, i usually try not to put TOO much faith in UDFAs to make much of a contribution, but i admit that i'll be interested to see what he can do-- he sounds like a guy that has a chance to earn a spot. . . . it's not like the competition on our D-line is exactly overwhelming ATM. . . . :rolleyes:

Normally, if a DT goes completely undrafted, there's a reason. I don't hold out much hope for a project like him. But considering the lack of any other option, he could very well wind up making the 53 man roster and even being the backup to Fields.

I just don't see Marcus Thomas as a realistic NT. He's not big or strong enough. He doesn't demand double-teams and he has shown no real pass-rush ability.

This is his 3rd season and normally if a player is ever going to become good he will by then. However, he's changing position now with the team going to a 3-4 which might set him back.

We know he can be a mediocre to worse than mediocre starting 4-3 DT. That's not a ringing endorsement I know, but he's the best Broncos DL right now and probably the only one outside of Ayers who would stand a good chance of playing for another team.

Most of Denver's scrub DL would be cut by any other NFL team!

The DL rotation last year was HORRIBLE, and they haven't improved it by adding much talent this year.

Ron Fields is a backup. And he's all you get?

The fact that fans are reduced to hoping that players like Powell and Kenny Peterson become starters is a sign of utter desperation. On most teams players like those would be cut in training camp or the pre-season. :coffee:

[bcbronc]

Normally, if a DT goes completely undrafted, there's a reason. I don't hold out much hope for a project like him. But considering the lack of any other option, he could very well wind up making the 53 man roster and even being the backup to Fields.

I just don't see Marcus Thomas as a realistic NT. He's not big or strong enough. He doesn't demand double-teams and he has shown no real pass-rush ability.

This is his 3rd season and normally if a player is ever going to become good he will by then. However, he's changing position now with the team going to a 3-4 which might set him back.

We know he can be a mediocre to worse than mediocre starting 4-3 DT. That's not a ringing endorsement I know, but he's the best Broncos DL right now and probably the only one outside of Ayers who would stand a good chance of playing for another team.

Most of Denver's scrub DL would be cut by any other NFL team!

The DL rotation last year was HORRIBLE, and they haven't improved it by adding much talent this year.

Ron Fields is a backup. And he's all you get?

The fact that fans are reduced to hoping that players like Powell and Kenny Peterson become starters is a sign of utter desperation. On most teams players like those would be cut in training camp or the pre-season. :coffee:

well, shit, why waste everyone's time even playing a season then.

Cug, if you could be so kind as to tell the league who will be the champ and the correct drafting order for next year, we can forego the season and get right back to the draft.

TIA.

[rcsodak]

well, shit, why waste everyone's time even playing a season then.

Cug, if you could be so kind as to tell the league who will be the champ and the correct drafting order for next year, we can forego the season and get right back to the draft.

TIA.
It's called preparing for the worst...



....and hoping for the best, bc.


For some, it's easier, I guess, to cope ? :confused:

I'd rather look at the D as being all new...

...with fire inside their guts to NOT be at the bottom of the stats pages again.

I'm not demanding perfection....


....just marked improvement.

[Joel]

I still like some of our ends; everyone likes Doom, and I have some hope for Crowder as someone who can perform against the pass AND run ala Ekuban. I still don't like speaking of "the defensive line" as a whole, even though I know they function as a unit just like the offensive line. But continuing that analogy, while we often speak of "offensive lines" most people know there's a difference between a guard and a tackle.

I don't think the problem is that we have no defensive linemen worthy of the name. I think we have several ends who are at least decent, and maybe a couple good UTs. The problem is that, like the offensive line, it's only as good as the weakest link, and we have no one inside to occupy multiple blockers, shut down the inside run, collapse the pocket and generally be the immovable rock offenses go around because they can't go through him. Until we do it won't matter how good the rest of our defense is, and the prospect of going to a 3-4 only highlights that existing problem.

As one of our rookies noted recently, if you can shut down the run you force teams to pass, and once your calling their plays things get a lot easier because you've removed the offenses main advantage. But by the same token, shutting down the run starts with shutting down the inside run so that when they hand off you know they're going to spend a lot of energy trying to get to either side of your tackles while your LBs head hunt them, and pretty soon they're in a perpetual shotgun trying to thread the ball between six or seven defenders and overcome a 20 point deficit.

But it all starts over center--or doesn't. Once we have a wrecking ball to pound holes into offensive lines things will change, but until then those sexy DEs with double digit sacks may sound good, but they won't get past many offensive lines with people available to double team them. Similarly, a quick agile DT like Thomas is a real asset on a team using him properly, but only if they have a NT to dominate offensive lines the way he can't, creating the opportunity to develop DEFENSIVE running lanes and fill the offensive backfield with tacklers.

Once we have a true brute I expect our whole defensive line, ends and other tackles, to suddenly look much better, but till then it really doesn't matter who's playing around that gaping hole in the center of our D.

[Lonestar]

It's called preparing for the worst...



....and hoping for the best, bc.


For some, it's easier, I guess, to cope ? :confused:

I'd rather look at the D as being all new...

...with fire inside their guts to NOT be at the bottom of the stats pages again.

I'm not demanding perfection....


....just marked improvement.

Considering most of the players on D thought they were considered SECOND class citizens under mike, I suspect now they feel respect again having real coaches again.

Perhaps some will turn into REAL players now.

[nevcraw]

Considering most of the players on D thought they were considered SECOND class citizens under mike, I suspect now they feel respect again having real coaches again.

Perhaps some will turn into REAL players now.


No players ever pointed at Mike or the FO and said this.. They very well could have been refferring to the offense (historically in NFL when one side is holding up the other grudges have occurred) or maybe this is only their own perception born form self loathing because well they sucked...

Funny how Mike would have been fired for not firing Slowick as you have contended (also unsubstantiated, I might ad) but treat his defense like crap.. Does not compute.. Me thinks a whole lot of hot air..

[Lonestar]

No players ever pointed at Mike or the FO and said this.. They very well could have been refferring to the offense (historically in NFL when one side is holding up the other grudges have occurred) or maybe this is only their own perception born form self loathing because well they sucked...

Funny how Mike would have been fired for not firing Slowick as you have contended (also unsubstantiated, I might ad) but treat his defense like crap.. Does not compute.. Me thinks a whole lot of hot air..

Think what you care to.

I saw the quote ina an article from one of the papers in IN DEN.. As an actual Quote from DJ after mike was fired and Josh was hired..

This really surprised me as until then the only comment about coaching I had heard was prior to slowick being hired as DC was Champs comment about how great a DB coach he was..

After reading it it all come full circle for me why offense got all the toys and the defense was getting hand me downs..

I do not think anyone can debate the statement above, with a straight face that is.. ..

[Ravage!!!]

seems we spent a number of drafts that concentrated on defense. 2004 Used the top 3 of our picks as defense... 2005 used three of our top 5 on defense... 2006 was offense, but then 2007 used 3 of our top 4 on defense.. and even in 2008 we used 4 of the nine on defense.

Despite how many worked out, the point being that it wasn't 'intentional' that the offense got "all the toys".... and you can't really debate that....

[TXBRONC]

Let's hope so.

Agreed.

[Lonestar]

seems we spent a number of drafts that concentrated on defense. 2004 Used the top 3 ONE of our picks as defense... 2005 used three of our top 5 on defense... 2006 was offense, but then 2007 used 3 of our top 4 on defense.. and even in 2008 we used 4 THREE of the nine on defense.

Despite how many worked out, the point being that it wasn't 'intentional' that the offense got "all the toys".... and you can't really debate that....


2004

1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall

2005

2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2007

1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida

2008

1 12 Ryan Clady T Boise State
2 42 Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech
4 108 Kory Lichtensteiger C Bowling Green State
4 119 Jack Williams CB Kent State
5 139 Ryan Torain RB Arizona State
5 148 Carlton Powell DT Virginia Tech
6 183 Spencer Larsen FB Arizona
7 220 Josh Barrett DB Arizona State
7 227 Peyton Hillis RB Arkansas



For what is worth darrent was initially drafted as a return specialist and then the found out he was the best of the CB's but that was not the initial plan for him..

And while your parsing your words.. "Despite how many worked out" the simple fact was mike was a offense first guy and defense was an after thought.. I also suspect had Bates not been here the three DL type drafted for him would not have happened.. I bet we can almost all agree on that point....

Almost all the meaning full draft or DAFT choices depending on ones point of view have ticketed for OFFENSE.. IE Larsen the LB was shifted to FB..and only used as a LB because the Defense SUCKED..

[Ravage!!!]

For what is worth darrent was initially drafted as a return specialist and then the found out he was the best of the CB's but that was not the initial plan for him..
You mean, he was the best combination of CB and returner..thus why he was drafted. If you don't know, he was rated as one of the top CBs in that draft. But I guess Shanahan taking a draft choice on a small corner isn't as good as when McDaniels trades a first round pick for one. I'm sure you griped about the Eddie Royal pick saying the same thing.


And while your parsing your words.. "Despite how many worked out" the simple fact was mike was a offense first guy and defense was an after thought.. I also suspect had Bates not been here the three DL type drafted for him would not have happened.. I bet we can almost all agree on that point....
But again.. you are simply guessing and complaining about things you are guessing on. You then turn around and defend THIS years DAFT despite ignoring that "DL" you complain was ignored in the past. But as you said about Shanahan.. the fact is that McDaniels is and offense first guy and defense is an after thought.


Almost all the meaning full draft or DAFT choices depending on ones point of view have ticketed for OFFENSE.. IE Larsen the LB was shifted to FB..and only used as a LB because the Defense SUCKED..

Despite the choices working out, the point is that you can't say "why did the offense get all the toys" when there was shopping being DONE at the draft for defensive 'toys'.... and please don't label Larsen as a FB AT THE DRAFT to change things to your direction when he was an OLB when drafted and in college. He was moved to FB but still played at LB with Denver. Playing FB gave him a position for the starting 53 and special teams. I don't even know where you get off thinking he was 'moved to LB' when it was the other way around.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/teams/broncos.html

Either way, your points didn't make sense. I said that despite the players not working out, the players were STILL drafted. But then if you see that the defense was ignored in SHanahan's "dafts".. I'm sure I'll see the same criticisms from you on McD's draft as well... right?

[Ravage!!!]

Also note.. the 2004 draft.. had the top THREE OF FIVE picks on defense (which was meant to be typed). THe draft extends past the 2nd round.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/teams/broncos.html

1 17(17) D.J. Williams OLB Miami (FL)
2 9(41) Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma St.
2 22(54) Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 22(85) Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 20(152) Jeff Shoate CB San Diego St.

[Lonestar]

You mean, he was the best combination of CB and returner..thus why he was drafted. If you don't know, he was rated as one of the top CBs in that draft. But I guess Shanahan taking a draft choice on a small corner isn't as good as when McDaniels trades a first round pick for one. I'm sure you griped about the Eddie Royal pick saying the same thing.


But again.. you are simply guessing and complaining about things you are guessing on. You then turn around and defend THIS years DAFT despite ignoring that "DL" you complain was ignored in the past. But as you said about Shanahan.. the fact is that McDaniel's is and offense first guy and defense is an after thought.



Despite the choices working out, the point is that you can't say "why did the offense get all the toys" when there was shopping being DONE at the draft for defensive 'toys'.... and please don't label Larsen as a FB AT THE DRAFT to change things to your direction when he was an OLB when drafted and in college. He was moved to FB but still played at LB with Denver. Playing FB gave him a position for the starting 53 and special teams. I don't even know where you get off thinking he was 'moved to LB' when it was the other way around.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/teams/broncos.html

Either way, your points didn't make sense. I said that despite the players not working out, the players were STILL drafted. But then if you see that the defense was ignored in SHanahan's "dafts".. I'm sure I'll see the same criticisms from you on McD's draft as well... right?

the comments in mike press conference after that choice was his kick return skills and a very brief after thought he mentioned.. CB while he sung the praises of Paymah and fox forth..

So while there was some hope there almost nothing was said initially.. it was an afterthought..

just went back to give you a a link but it looks like mikes press conference in this has been removed from the list..
I remember that one vividly.. as I have discussed this subject at length before..


as for larsen the second thing out of his mouth was I believe he can play full back as well.. an all around athlete..

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609&year=2008&month=4
Shanahan: Day 2 Recap -- Sunday, April 27, 2008

Yes mike paid lip service to defense on draft day the only real D players during his regime to make it into a second contract were two LB's and Trevor price.. 3 LB if you count Gold..

for that matter almost none of his DAFT/Draft choice ever made it to a second contract..

Look I know your one of the legions of Shanny lovers and probably will never be content with Josh being brought in.

So let just agree to disagree as YOU will never change my mind that mike was nothing short of a disaster in the war room.. especially on Defense..

[Lonestar]

Also note.. the 2004 draft.. had the top THREE OF FIVE picks on defense (which was meant to be typed). THe draft extends past the 2nd round.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/teams/broncos.html

1 17(17) D.J. Williams OLB Miami (FL)
2 9(41) Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma St.
2 22(54) Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 22(85) Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 20(152) Jeff Shoate CB San Diego St.



once again proves the point he sucked at D in the war room.. actually other than DJ this DAFT was a total waste..

[nevcraw]

Think what you care to.

I saw the quote ina an article from one of the papers in IN DEN.. As an actual Quote from DJ after mike was fired and Josh was hired..

This really surprised me as until then the only comment about coaching I had heard was prior to slowick being hired as DC was Champs comment about how great a DB coach he was..

After reading it it all come full circle for me why offense got all the toys and the defense was getting hand me downs..

I do not think anyone can debate the statement above, with a straight face that is.. ..

side step it all you want.. My points are valid, clear and concise and no more outrageous than the hypothesis you stepped in..

[TXBRONC]

seems we spent a number of drafts that concentrated on defense. 2004 Used the top 3 of our picks as defense... 2005 used three of our top 5 on defense... 2006 was offense, but then 2007 used 3 of our top 4 on defense.. and even in 2008 we used 4 of the nine on defense.

Despite how many worked out, the point being that it wasn't 'intentional' that the offense got "all the toys".... and you can't really debate that....

There are some that try to say otherwise.

[Elevation inc]

There are some that try to say otherwise.

i think for some it is that shanny didnt focus on who would fit best here and why, he didnt focus on there tape or there measurbales and 95% of the time he didnt even work out who he got. he would reach and get projects and take risks very early as opposed to later when the risks should be taken

To me it seemed like his attempt to fix the defense was to throw picks at it and hope they stick.....well we see where that went....lol

[roomemp]

i think for some it is that shanny didnt focus on who would fit best here and why, he didnt focus on there tape or there measurbales and 95% of the time he didnt even work out who he got. he would reach and get projects and take risks very early as opposed to later when the risks should be taken

To me it seemed like his attempt to fix the defense was to throw picks at it and hope they stick.....well we see where that went....lol

Great point. I like the philosophy. We went with players that could help us. I like that we didn't buy into all the hype surrounding a lot of players. I think a lot of the times FO get caught up in the media hype surrounding a certain player. I also liked that we worked out every player we took. We know (as much as you could) what we are getting. I think the corner we took in the 2round is going to be this year's version of Eddie Royal. The who the heck is that player choice. Just imagine, if he has the same success that Royal did in his first year. This choice will be a no brainer looking back. Did anybody last year actually think Royal would have the success he did. A lot of people are saying we potentially gave up a top 10 pick to get this guy. WHo cares. If the guy is that talented does it really matter?

[Lonestar]

i think for some it is that shanny didnt focus on who would fit best here and why, he didnt focus on there tape or there measurbales and 95% of the time he didnt even work out who he got. he would reach and get projects and take risks very early as opposed to later when the risks should be taken

To me it seemed like his attempt to fix the defense was to throw picks at it and hope they stick.....well we see where that went....lol

If you really look back at who was drafted For example

when we blitzed the CB slot there were 10 CBs taken before darrent was taken ostensibly as a KR guy.. then 6 more were taken before Paymah and another 3 more before Foxworth ..


so sure we tried to address KR and CB.. in that draft by taking the 11th 17th and 21st best CB for all intents and purposes..

for what is worth here are the ones taken in the 2006 draft at the same numbers:
11th Richard Marshall
17th Will Blackmon
21st DeMario Minter

YEAH all household names..

so yes we attacked the position but got IMO crap out of it.. What do Y'all exepct garbage in Garbage out..

Same appears to be for the 2007 draft for DL types but now that we have real coaches perhaps one maybe two will see and contract come renewal time.. Unlike about 90% of mikes DAFT choices on D....

For that matter any of his DAFT choices, very few other than OLINE, ONE DE and LBs ever saw a second contract with the broncos.. ..EPIC failure on his part.. EPIC

Besides the aforemention players, about the only one up to the 2006 draft (the jury is still out on that one), they only one worth a crap on this team have been trades and FA's..

[Lonestar]

Great point. I like the philosophy. We went with players that could help us. I like that we didn't buy into all the hype surrounding a lot of players. I think a lot of the times FO get caught up in the media hype surrounding a certain player. I also liked that we worked out every player we took. We know (as much as you could) what we are getting. I think the corner we took in the 2round is going to be this year's version of Eddie Royal. The who the heck is that player choice. Just imagine, if he has the same success that Royal did in his first year. This choice will be a no brainer looking back. Did anybody last year actually think Royal would have the success he did. A lot of people are saying we potentially gave up a top 10 pick to get this guy. WHo cares. If the guy is that talented does it really matter?

I liked what Josh did by TALKING to each of them , and working them all out, having coaches talk with them..unlike mikes group where many times the DAFTEES would say it was a complete surprise as they never talked to any of the broncos had no idea they were being considered..


BFD that they had a short list and did not work out or have more than a 100 or so on their board.. If they ruled certain players out because of the scheme did not work for them why would anyone be up in arms about it..
.
Kinda like remodeling your house why hire a cabinet maker if your not replacing cabinets.. or hiring a plumber to rewire the lighting system..

If the shoe does not fit DO NOT BUY it as it is a waste of time effort and money..