Elevation inc's draft anaylsis

[Elevation inc]

First off i am going to go over what i did like and what i didnt like....kind of in a quick hits format, then i will do a little review of each player.

Likes from the draft

1. MCD had a plan/and he stuck to the plan
2. Every player we drafted I like, thats never happened for me
3. HE focused on leaders and elite intangibles not just measurables
4. He didnt back down
5. He didnt make huge reaches on character risks, he took the risks in UDFA where they should be taken
6. he didnt reach for players to force into a system, instead he picked players that would seem a natural fit


Dislikes from the draft

1. It really showed in some ways that this was his first draft
2. He got took by some vet GM's because he was a rookie guy
3. the value that surrounded some players and trades we made was poor.
4. It was clear we would never get fair value for the cutler debacle, whats done is done.
5. The cockiness during his interviews, regarding his system.
6. the fact xanders really is just a figurehead




now as you can see both sides have something to argue for or against, and for me neither side is wrong at this point. I took a step back and really realized that while some mistakes were made that some feel were unforgivable right now. we should also keep in mind this is a rookie head coach much like a rookie Qb. And while the cutler issue to many didnt earn MCD leway for this draft, it could be argued that he isnt being given a fairshake to prove it is all gonna work.

We have yet to see a product on the field or a win or loss from his decisions. that alone for me...gives me just reason to sit back and wait to see just how good this guy really is as a coach. he may not have been smart during the draft with his value, but evey single player he got can bring something to this team. for a first time drafter the tangibles he just brought this team are pretty darn good.


We can argue for days about how he should have done this or that, or who should have gone where, but at the end of the day we talk from a message board. Its fair to say in my opinion that MCD does know what he wants do do and how to execute it. if you think closely thats much more direct than the apporach we dealt with for the last 14 years, mistakes were made and im sure at some point the realization has set in for MCD just how tough a job he has, but rather than crack he still focused on his plan.


from now on Mock drafts will get easier and we will know a good gyst of what kind of players we are looking at from the private workouts we hold. that for me is a good thing as i wont sit on draft day praying we dont draft maurice clarret or jarvis moss 2.0


everyone single person on this board has a right to be happy or upset with the decisions and choices made of late. its obviously been a stressful time to be a broncos fan. Im not hear to change your view, Im simply here to offer my opinions now on the players we have obtained.:salute:





RB Knowshon Moreno- I am so happy about this pick, finally we have a RB that doesnt have to get subbed out every 2 carries becasue they cant catch,cant run hard, or cant pass block. Moreno is that complete back that the selvin youngs, andre halls, tatum bells, cory boyds, ryan torains will never be. He is the full package a elite 3 down runner in the pros. How often have we seen selvin in on a down to pass block only to see him get run over by a LB, or andre hall run right into his line becasue he cant tackle, or any rb we had stay healthy. we now have a seriosu weapon to avoid all those issues. this guy will help all sides of the ball and be a staple of control and balnce for this offense.


Robert Ayers- many feel he isnt a fit for the 3-4 or the 4-3 because they are unsure of his size and whre he fits, hello people his versatility makes him a everydown player and he has pass rush skills and a very good ability against the run, for once we have a DL player we drafted that can do both effectively. he has dropped in coverage, rushed from the edge, rushed from inside. he does many different things and will probally be used just like terrell suggs was in baltimore when nolan was there. this is a great DL pick and the returns should be noticed quickly. while he has a interesting past, he learned and became a leader, his intagibles are a plus for this line.



Alphonso Smith- Whats not to like about the guy otehr than his height, while the value has many fans estranged and perhaps with good reason, this guy is a playmaker, he is not some late project or possible ballhawk, he is a ballhawk and will create turnovers for us, something Db's in denver outside of champ have trouble with. his insticts, tenacity, aggresion, physciality, and respect for the game are all intagibles you rarely find in a player all at once, his size no doubt at times could be an issue but i have no doubt he is the type of player that will do everything under his vets tutelage to be a great player for us.


Darcel Mcbath- did not like this pick untill further research, again felt the value was off, but the player himself is great. ballhawk skills, causes turnovers, hits hard, is physical, gives range to a position that has lacked it for a very very long time. it will be interesting to see just how good he can be learning behind the vets we have. he is a leader, with great intsticnts and work ethic. a common theme i might add.


Richard Quinn- Again the value seems off, but this guy is a patriot pick, the patriot way is to not tie up to much money in any one player. while most of us love daniel graham, we dont love his contract, and it could be reasoned he will look for more money, why not groom his replacement. this TE helps on the OL with both pass and rush blcoking. His blocking skills are the best in the draft from the TE position. While he may not be the reciving TE sheff is, its clear sheff is also not happy here, and will walk in FA, so why not groom a complete TE now. the pick makes tons of sense even if the value seems insane.


David Bruton- For years we have complained about special teams, from the 4th rd on its nearly impossible to find DL prospects that stick and make a impact, yet special teamers can be found if you know how to look. this guy is a special teams gunner in every sense of the word for all teams. he finally gives us that guy that can be intsrumental along withh woodyard and larsen to stop what has been a plague on thsi team since after the SB years. not to mentionj he is a pretty darn godo safety, his size speed makes him a great fit behind dawkins at SS where that gunner mentaility could be a big plus. his ballhawk skills only add to the versatility of what he can do.


Kenny Mckinnely- stokely has not been himself the last few years with regards to injuries and concussions, this to me seems like MCD likes to be prepared for the future instead of drafting on impulse when a need flares up at the last minute. kenny is a great route runner, with good hands and good intagibles. he also is fighter and plays the game hard even if his Qb sucks. he is a leader. some key attributes for succes in the pro for wideouts are route running, beating the jam at the line, and good hands. he has 2 of 3 for sure, which isnt bad for a late rd flier. he gives a beastly WR core even more depth and promise.


Seth Olsen- We have been pretty weak on the inetrior O-line depth wise for a while. While hamilton and kuper are great there, hamiltons age is starting to catch up, and licht seemed a little uneasy last year, competition is good, and you can never go wrong getting inside OL depth for the future. injuries are a fact and we got lucky last year on the OL.


Tom Brandstater- MCD's Qb toy, the guys has the tools and skills, just needs the coaching. the good news is he isnt under a shadow liek cutler was and the pressure ins nonexistent. the trade made the value seem awkward, but i defer to MCd since he has done well with coaching qb's so far at least on the field anyway. we all knew a Qb was coming and a late one makes sense.


Schlueter- Again interior O-line depth at center, they really like this guy, and outside of hamilton and licht who aresemi question marks for center we have no one behind weigman. not to mention weigman isnt even officially signed. depth was a must and the got the center they like right away.



UDFA's- Whats not to like we picked up 3 DL guys that were suppsoed to go somewhere between rds 3-6 for dirt cheap. they will bring some competiton and a little chip on the shoulder attitude. We picked up 3 LB's as well...that didnt have bad measurables, they just didnt get a fair shake, we seen how late Lber's can have some impact in larsen and woodyard, and robinson and braxton should be no different. We also brought in 2 Wr for KR competition, thats great, its eases the workload of eddie, and we no longer have to see hall run into his blockers at the 18 yd line every time. im excited about the return game getting a bit of a boost. some of the WR's also can bring some good back end depth and skills to this team. we were serious in UDFA and we picked up some serious prospects for canidates of big suprise




t ome its clear afetr sitting back this team has become improved, while i may not liek the process, value or the way MCd handled some things, we are a improved team on papper, i feel even better about it than i did last year. i cant tell ya how many times i convinced myself colbert, niko, webster, robertson, mcree and manuel were the answer to the defense before TC...we saw how that went. and while the same could happen here, its nearly impossible for me to belive it will.


I personally salute MCD in his first draft as a rookie head coach, knowing full well its been in many ways besides value better than many of the 13 plus we endured with shanny, even despite the questionable value.

If you agree or disagree thats your right and privlege and im not here to take it from you, but for me i no longer look back at what we had, i no longer look back wishing i could change the past. I no longer wonder what could have been if we still had cutler or shanny, or if we had just 1 one more game........Instead i look ahead to the future good or bad,, and salute the new era of bronco football that is set to begin at Dove valley:salute:



Disclaimer: please know that this is only my opinon and its not be taken as fact or fiction but merely my own observations or 2 cents as some would say:salute:.....

[Dirk]

Wow! You said a mouthful for so early in the morning! :salute:

I agree with a lot of what you wrote and I won't detract from any of it.

Good post. :beer:

[SoCalImport]

Great post, and refreshingly unbiased. Couldn't have said it better myself. Or nearly as well, for that matter.:beer:

[Elevation inc]

Wow! You said a mouthful for so early in the morning! :salute:

I agree with a lot of what you wrote and I won't detract from any of it.

Good post. :beer:

thanks, im sure many people will still flame, as i am essentially a noob here, but i tried to be unbiased as much as possible, but i really do like the players quite a bit

[Dirk]

I'm starting to come around to Alphonso. Many posters here have made me think of him in another light than his size.

Moreno is a stud! And if Mayock says Ayers is the best defensive prospect in this years draft...good enough for me. The other players I really don't know much about.

I am with you though in giving them the benefit of the doubt and saluting them all the way onto the field. :salute:

[CoachChaz]

Awesome post, bro.

[broncofaninfla]

Good read

[Tned]

...

now as you can see both sides have something to argue for or against, and for me neither side is wrong at this point. I took a step back and really realized that while some mistakes were made that some feel were unforgivable right now. we should also keep in mind this is a rookie head coach much like a rookie Qb. And while the cutler issue to many didnt earn MCD leway for this draft, it could be argued that he isnt being given a fairshake to prove it is all gonna work.

...

everyone single person on this board has a right to be happy or upset with the decisions and choices made of late. its obviously been a stressful time to be a broncos fan. Im not hear to change your view, Im simply here to offer my opinions now on the players we have obtained.:salute:



Nice post. I just highlighted a few, because I think they are really important.

I understood the Shanahan firing, and part of me felt it was time, but also had that dreaded feeling of "be careful what you wish for" bleeping in my head. I don't agree with much of what McDaniels has done, such as the cockyness you mention, always talking about his system and how it is so much better. For instance, our fans have seen certain types of play for a long times, like the ZBS for instance and there could maybe be a little more humblness in his approach UNTIL he proves it on the field. However, it's a small thing.

I obviously didn't like the Cutler thing, but in the end thought we got great value for hime, two firsts, a third (minus a fifth) and Orton. However, we fast forward to those draft picks being used this year, and the value for Cutler now seems questionable.

On the flip side, after initial shock and surprise at how the draft went, I feel good about the players he picked (concerned about the first for Smith), and can see why he didn't address the front seven, based on who was left when we picked.

The point of this rambling is that I can be positive and look forward to what McDaniels is doing for the team (I hope that he will have the same creative impact on the offense that Shanahan had 14 or 15 years ago), but at the same time I can be critical of how he handled some things, where I feel his age and rookie head coach status show through.

I am a Broncos' fan and support McDaniels as such. I supported Reeve's, Phillips, Shanahan and now McDaniels. However, that doesn't mean I blindly dump kudos on every move they make.

[frenchfan]

Great post Elevation !

:salute: :beer:

I also love that McD has a plan (good or bad)... He may has made some mistakes, but everyone do.
I was mad about the McJayGate, but it's history now... What is done is done indeed.
He is our coach now and he has my support. I hope he will succeed because I want us to be SB contender, not just a 8-8 team, nor a "just playoff" team.
And after all, who I am to believe I know football more than he does?

People should understand there is no truth in draft, just higher or lower bets...
A 6th round QB can be a HOF while a 1st round QB can be a bust.

As you, I'm really excited by this new era.
I loved Shanny but I have to admit his players didn't seem to play with fire those last days (just my opinion)... I'd like to see huge warriors on the field...
IMO, McD wanted also "smart" people who can adjust quickly... That's the Pats way.
I'm dying to see how it will turn out now.

I will finish with some humour and say that's the 1st time I think the offseason is not too long and too boring ;) :laugh:

[BroncosRockdaRockies]

Well I have been a supporter of the Broncos for many years. I am more excited about this years team than I was for last years team.

I played both sides of the ball in my day but still find myself a little more bias for the Defensive side, but from what I have seen from the team this year I am so proud to be a Bronco fan.

Because it takes guts,toughness, and determination to make the changes that have been made. And to me if the FO is going to act and succeeed in these type of decisions then it is bound to trickle down to the players.

I don't even consider McDaniels a rookie coach even though it is his first year as a head coach, He still has all the credentials to meet and exceed some of the Head Coaches who have coached for years. There is a way that he carries himself that makes me feel like this guy is a serious type but at the same time he also comes across as like that guy that will go and buy you a beer at the end of a long hard practice.

But anyways just wanted to say great thread and Look forward to partying with some fellow Denver Fans in the Upcoming Season! PEACE!!!!

[CoachChaz]

The bottom line when it comes to what some consider his biggest mistake (Cutler) is it doesnt matter what he accomplishes in Chicago. All that matters is what Denver accomplishes as a team.

Anything Jay does as a Bear will be completely irrelevant to what he may or may not have done as a Bronco. So, I could care less if he throws for 4000 yards and 40 TD's every year. If Denver ends up a better team, then it's irrelevant.

Based on the FA acquisitions and draft, it's hard to see us not improving as a TEAM.

[Tned]

The bottom line when it comes to what some consider his biggest mistake (Cutler) is it doesnt matter what he accomplishes in Chicago. All that matters is what Denver accomplishes as a team.

Anything Jay does as a Bear will be completely irrelevant to what he may or may not have done as a Bronco. So, I could care less if he throws for 4000 yards and 40 TD's every year. If Denver ends up a better team, then it's irrelevant.

Based on the FA acquisitions and draft, it's hard to see us not improving as a TEAM.

I think as long as Denver becomes a better team and wins, it's irrelevant. If Denver winds up with a revolving door at QB, with many losing seasons, and Cutler goes on to have a HOF career, we will hear about it for many, many years.

[NightTrainLayne]

The bottom line when it comes to what some consider his biggest mistake (Cutler) is it doesnt matter what he accomplishes in Chicago. All that matters is what Denver accomplishes as a team.

Anything Jay does as a Bear will be completely irrelevant to what he may or may not have done as a Bronco. So, I could care less if he throws for 4000 yards and 40 TD's every year. If Denver ends up a better team, then it's irrelevant.

Based on the FA acquisitions and draft, it's hard to see us not improving as a TEAM.


I think as long as Denver becomes a better team and wins, it's irrelevant. If Denver winds up with a revolving door at QB, with many losing seasons, and Cutler goes on to have a HOF career, we will hear about it for many, many years.

To me it's kind of like when you break up with a g/f or divorce your spouse. If you live the rest of your life looking at what their doing, and wondering what if, and being jealous of what they're doing, then you won't be happy with anything.

Also, just as with ex's sometimes they have to go through a break-up or divorce to learn the skills that they need to be successful down the road. IE, Cutler might learn a lot out of this experience that could potentially make him a better QB/better Teammate/better player that he might not have learned if he had stayed here. Sometimes you learn more from that kind of negative experience than you could ever hope to otherwise, and it ends up making you better all around. . . .but had you not had that experience you might never have taken the steps to get to the next level.

We'll never really know what could have been. No sense in obsessing over it.

[Nickademus]

first of all GREAT THREAD!

I have said from the start that I liked the players we took in the draft. I was beyond pist with the value we gave up to get them but I do feel like McD will get this part of it as he grows into the position. I think my favorite pick was Burton I am forced to listen to ND football out here in Albuquerque and I liked the kid from what I herd and saw. The best thing McD has done IMHO was our UDFA class. he got three guys I wanted us to draft anywhere from 3-6 so to me that makes this a lot easier to deal with.

[Dortoh]

Great post and I certainly respect your opinons and agree with alot of them.

That said :) I still think we could have gotten the exact same players we did without giving up so many picks this year and obviously our #1 next.

I respect that McD targeted his guys and went after them. My issue is I really dont think he needed to move up and around as much as he did thus losing value.

Now we wait and see.

[Elevation inc]

To me it's kind of like when you break up with a g/f or divorce your spouse. If you live the rest of your life looking at what their doing, and wondering what if, and being jealous of what they're doing, then you won't be happy with anything.

Also, just as with ex's sometimes they have to go through a break-up or divorce to learn the skills that they need to be successful down the road. IE, Cutler might learn a lot out of this experience that could potentially make him a better QB/better Teammate/better player that he might not have learned if he had stayed here. Sometimes you learn more from that kind of negative experience than you could ever hope to otherwise, and it ends up making you better all around. . . .but had you not had that experience you might never have taken the steps to get to the next level.

We'll never really know what could have been. No sense in obsessing over it.



this is very ture and a great point, i agree with both sides, but i do not want to keep looking at chicago to judge denver, if that happens it will becasue MCD didnt lead this team to wins, however he has not done either winning or losing, so i refuse to wonder what if at this point untill i see a product of proof on the field.


great point bro.:salute:


and TNED i understand entirely your view and even in some respects agree with being critical of MCD, i for one have reservations about his coaching abilites, but they cant be substantiated untill he proves he cant coach on the field, in the draft he selected good players at poor value spots, for me i am critical of that but no more than should warrant a first year coach doing it for the first time in his career. he got took in some instances no doubt...but again we have yet to see the product on the field.

but i also agree if we have a revolving door at QB, continual bad draft value and poor players and losses, then everyone was justifed in there harsh criticism but again i think that breaking point still is a long way from frutition.


FOR all other posters- thanks for taking the time to read i know it was probally insanely long, but thanks:salute:

[Dortoh]

To me it's kind of like when you break up with a g/f or divorce your spouse. If you live the rest of your life looking at what their doing, and wondering what if, and being jealous of what they're doing, then you won't be happy with anything.

Also, just as with ex's sometimes they have to go through a break-up or divorce to learn the skills that they need to be successful down the road. IE, Cutler might learn a lot out of this experience that could potentially make him a better QB/better Teammate/better player that he might not have learned if he had stayed here. Sometimes you learn more from that kind of negative experience than you could ever hope to otherwise, and it ends up making you better all around. . . .but had you not had that experience you might never have taken the steps to get to the next level.

We'll never really know what could have been. No sense in obsessing over it.

Freaking love this post for personal reasons :salute:

[Elevation inc]

The bottom line when it comes to what some consider his biggest mistake (Cutler) is it doesnt matter what he accomplishes in Chicago. All that matters is what Denver accomplishes as a team.

Anything Jay does as a Bear will be completely irrelevant to what he may or may not have done as a Bronco. So, I could care less if he throws for 4000 yards and 40 TD's every year. If Denver ends up a better team, then it's irrelevant.

Based on the FA acquisitions and draft, it's hard to see us not improving as a TEAM.


my sentiments exactly, i just do not buy that webster, robertson, mcree, manuel, kolbert, d jax, winborn, engleberger,ekuban, hall, boyd, pope are better than what we have now even with a new scheme. i would say our only paper loss is cutler, but moreno and a improved defense could even the playing field more than people realize....

[Ravage!!!]

It is interesting that he has said ..or did... go after character guys, yet his biggest signing in UDFA was Chris Baker..... just the opposite as to what is known as good 'character.' That being said, I absolutely love the signing of Chris Baker, but it does make you wonder if character REALLY was a top priority.

[Dortoh]

It is interesting that he has said ..or did... go after character guys, yet his biggest signing in UDFA was Chris Baker..... just the opposite as to what is known as good 'character.' That being said, I absolutely love the signing of Chris Baker, but it does make you wonder if character REALLY was a top priority.

My guess is character is exactly why we signed Baker only as a UDFA. Low risk High reward.

[Elevation inc]

Great post and I certainly respect your opinons and agree with alot of them.

That said :) I still think we could have gotten the exact same players we did without giving up so many picks this year and obviously our #1 next.

I respect that McD targeted his guys and went after them. My issue is I really dont think he needed to move up and around as much as he did thus losing value.

Now we wait and see.

and thats just it its a completely fair arguement and in my eyes even justifed. the value no doubt was off, but to me i belive that will improve as he becomes a bit more experienced and wiley in the war room(a place he was a first timer at) dont forget most of the other new coaches had GM's in place already to do this. most of them dont have MCD's power yet, (might be a good or bad thing) MCD and xanders were brand new at this entirely.



and i also like every player, but he probally could have been more patient instead of trigger happy...i understand and see that and understand how it could make some already pissed about the cutler thing, even more pissed off:salute:

[Ravage!!!]

My guess is character is exactly why we signed Baker only as a UDFA. Low risk High reward.

Fair enough. But one could say that if character was TRULY an issue for your decision making on talent, its all or nothing. Just bringing in ONE bad egg could ruin a basket.

Again... I see and truly believe that Baker was the best UDFA on the market, and one that I thought would/could be drafted somewhere in the 5th. So I'm thrilled. But if we are purely talking character, it doesn't fit the mold of the picks.

[Elevation inc]

It is interesting that he has said ..or did... go after character guys, yet his biggest signing in UDFA was Chris Baker..... just the opposite as to what is known as good 'character.' That being said, I absolutely love the signing of Chris Baker, but it does make you wonder if character REALLY was a top priority.

thats just it rav thats where you take those risks, you dont take them in rd 1,2 or 3 you take them in UDFA.

keep in mind chris also rehabilitated himself to become a team leader, that alone shows charcter and self improvement....

the funny thing is is many supposed character risks have talent, so to blind yourself to that through the whole process even during UDFA only takes away from your possibilites of getting more talent.

if you take a charcter risk you do it cheap in UDFA and you find your projects there. it ceratinly wont effect the chemistry becasue they are easy to cut and dirt cheap....

[Northman]

Nice post. I just highlighted a few, because I think they are really important.

I understood the Shanahan firing, and part of me felt it was time, but also had that dreaded feeling of "be careful what you wish for" bleeping in my head. I don't agree with much of what McDaniels has done, such as the cockyness you mention, always talking about his system and how it is so much better. For instance, our fans have seen certain types of play for a long times, like the ZBS for instance and there could maybe be a little more humblness in his approach UNTIL he proves it on the field. However, it's a small thing.

I obviously didn't like the Cutler thing, but in the end thought we got great value for hime, two firsts, a third (minus a fifth) and Orton. However, we fast forward to those draft picks being used this year, and the value for Cutler now seems questionable.

On the flip side, after initial shock and surprise at how the draft went, I feel good about the players he picked (concerned about the first for Smith), and can see why he didn't address the front seven, based on who was left when we picked.

The point of this rambling is that I can be positive and look forward to what McDaniels is doing for the team (I hope that he will have the same creative impact on the offense that Shanahan had 14 or 15 years ago), but at the same time I can be critical of how he handled some things, where I feel his age and rookie head coach status show through.

I am a Broncos' fan and support McDaniels as such. I supported Reeve's, Phillips, Shanahan and now McDaniels. However, that doesn't mean I blindly dump kudos on every move they make.


Bingo.

[Elevation inc]

Fair enough. But one could say that if character was TRULY an issue for your decision making on talent, its all or nothing. Just bringing in ONE bad egg could ruin a basket.

Again... I see and truly believe that Baker was the best UDFA on the market, and one that I thought would/could be drafted somewhere in the 5th. So I'm thrilled. But if we are purely talking character, it doesn't fit the mold of the picks.

it does rav all actual picks had good character. it was college free agents where 1 didnt there is a big difference. you endorse your picks, therefore they mirror what you look for. in UDFA you simply give guys that chance to prove they belong in that mirror as well.


perosnally im stoked about rulon davis, pedelesceaux and baker.....dream and otehrs may not be, but these kids all now have something to prove after they went UDFA

[Ravage!!!]

thats just it rav thats where you take those risks, you dont take them in rd 1,2 or 3 you take them in UDFA.

keep in mind chris also rehabilitated himself to become a team leader, that alone shows charcter and self improvement....

the funny thing is is many supposed character risks have talent, so to blind yourself to that through the whole process even during UDFA only takes away from your possibilites of getting more talent.

if you take a charcter risk you do it cheap in UDFA and you find your projects there. it ceratinly wont effect the chemistry becasue they are easy to cut and dirt cheap....

Oh.. I agree with that. But like I said, if character was TRULY the deciding factor in the players you pick.... well.. then its all in or not. If you see what I'm saying.

Like you and Dotoh both agree, its a low risk gamble with a UDFA. I guess the only point I'm making is that I wonder if character, over talent, was TRULY the deciding factor in our top picks. Not that I think the picks we made were void in either catagory..... just saying.

[Elevation inc]

Bingo.

as i said its clear both views to me have justification:salute:

[Ravage!!!]

it does rav all actual picks had good character. it was college free agents where 1 didnt there is a big difference. you endorse your picks, therefore they mirror what you look for. in UDFA you simply give guys that chance to prove they belong in that mirror as well.


perosnally im stoked about rulon davis, pedelesceaux and baker.....dream and otehrs may not be, but these kids all now have something to prove after they went UDFA

I thought those three in particular were excellent UDFA pick ups.... But Baker being my favorite by far.

[Elevation inc]

Oh.. I agree with that. But like I said, if character was TRULY the deciding factor in the players you pick.... well.. then its all in or not. If you see what I'm saying.

Like you and Dotoh both agree, its a low risk gamble with a UDFA. I guess the only point I'm making is that I wonder if character, over talent, was TRULY the deciding factor in our top picks. Not that I think the picks we made were void in either catagory..... just saying.

it makes for a good question....my guess is that since we are picking in the draft we must ensure our choices reflect our stance of character which they did

in UDFA you are simply offering a lifeline to the propsects for those that have something to prove. i dont think it effects your stance character wise.

even more so with baker as it happened a couple years ago and he since has kept his nose clean and become a team leader. to them they may have felt the good was the overpowering chracteristic as oppose to a mistake a few years ago....

[Elevation inc]

If the Broncos struggle to win games it wont be irrelevant.

your right and if they struggle it will no longer be jays fault it will be MCD's, but again that hasnt happened yet.....your right in its entirety, but dont forget that the line is very gray right now untill some actual results to go off of come about:salute:

[Ravage!!!]

If the Broncos struggle to win games it wont be irrelevant.

yeah.... Its easy to say (just like a girlfriend) that everything they do from this point is irrelevant.... but in reality, in this case, its not only because we can literally say "we shouldn't have....." As Tned said, if we have a revolving door at QB that so many teams go through.....

But...... what can you do? I know the only reason I was hoping to draft sanchez (and I mean the ONLY reason)... was so that it would be easy to change out the name on the jersey. I buy one friggin jersey in 10 years..........

[TXBRONC]

your right and if they struggle it will no longer be jays fault it will be MCD's, but again that hasnt happened yet.....your right in its entirety, but dont forget that the line is very gray right now untill some actual results to go off of come about:salute:

I deleted my post because I wanted to put it a little differently, but you've already done what I was planning on doing.

[Nomad]

And that's why Dawkin's is around as well. Baker made a mistake, we all do, and kept his nose clean at Hampton.

Now, if Baker does happen to act up and the locker rm (I'm guessing Dawkins and other leaders) can't tame him, then BRONCOS release him no sweat off their backs. IMO, if you have potentially millions of dollars in front of you being an UDFA....if you work hard, play hard and have good character, why screw it up:whoknows:?? Hopefully Baker has this mindset and I'm confident he does!!

[Elevation inc]

I deleted my post because I wanted to put it a little differently, but you've already done what I was planning on doing.

sorry, my bad...lol


we see the same things i guess in a roundabout way one could say:salute:

[TXBRONC]

sorry, my bad...lol


we see the same things i guess in a roundabout way one could say:salute:

No problem you were just a quicker than I was. I also add I hope that McDaniels is successful.

[Elevation inc]

No problem you were just a quicker than I was. I also add I hope that McDaniels is successful.

i think in a roundabout way even the most avid Haters of whats been done want a succesful team, they may not like MCD or his decisions or actions, but as fans i am pretty sure the end result we all want is success and wins regardless of the coaches or players.....:salute:

[TXBRONC]

Nice post. I just highlighted a few, because I think they are really important.

I understood the Shanahan firing, and part of me felt it was time, but also had that dreaded feeling of "be careful what you wish for" bleeping in my head. I don't agree with much of what McDaniels has done, such as the cockyness you mention, always talking about his system and how it is so much better. For instance, our fans have seen certain types of play for a long times, like the ZBS for instance and there could maybe be a little more humblness in his approach UNTIL he proves it on the field. However, it's a small thing.

I obviously didn't like the Cutler thing, but in the end thought we got great value for hime, two firsts, a third (minus a fifth) and Orton. However, we fast forward to those draft picks being used this year, and the value for Cutler now seems questionable.

On the flip side, after initial shock and surprise at how the draft went, I feel good about the players he picked (concerned about the first for Smith), and can see why he didn't address the front seven, based on who was left when we picked.

The point of this rambling is that I can be positive and look forward to what McDaniels is doing for the team (I hope that he will have the same creative impact on the offense that Shanahan had 14 or 15 years ago), but at the same time I can be critical of how he handled some things, where I feel his age and rookie head coach status show through.

I am a Broncos' fan and support McDaniels as such. I supported Reeve's, Phillips, Shanahan and now McDaniels. However, that doesn't mean I blindly dump kudos on every move they make.

Excellent post Tned and I see things the same way you do.

[Elevation inc]

And that's why Dawkin's is around as well. Baker made a mistake, we all do, and kept his nose clean at Hampton.

Now, if Baker does happen to act up and the locker rm (I'm guessing Dawkins and other leaders) can't tame him, then BRONCOS release him no sweat off their backs. IMO, if you have potentially millions of dollars in front of you being an UDFA....if you work hard, play hard and have good character, why screw it up:whoknows:?? Hopefully Baker has this mindset and I'm confident he does!!

i think thats a big focus for MCd i often have wondered if we had a soft team becasue of leadership voids, and it could be a big part. with guys like dawkins coming in we may finally see that forceful leader we have lacked since al wilson, perhaps even davis and Dj can step it up. those types of guys should have no problem keeping a guy like baker in check, especially since the guy had 1 incident in the last 2 years and has been and become a better man since.....


as i wrote somewhere else, i just want to see some success, im not dwelling on how or why we go tto where we are, and those that are upset are no less a bronco fan than I.

i simply will wait for results and if they dont come and improvement is non existent then it will be time for the hammer to come down.


while i am a firm beliver in giving someone a chance to prove themselves, i also am a firm beliver in making people repsonsible for there decisions, and lying in the bed they make regardless of the turnout or consequences.

That may or may not happen with these players or MCD, but its should be noted they shouldnt get a free pass for bad decsions simply becasue we let shanny and or players do it forever.

if you come in here and sing and dance you should do what you say you are here to do, if that doesnt happen then its time to move on. Accountability is paramount in all aspects of work :salute:

[Nomad]

i think thats a big focus for MCd i often have wondered if we had a soft team becasue of leadership voids, and it could be a big part. with guys like dawkins coming in we may finally see that forceful leader we have lacked since al wilson, perhaps even davis and Dj can step it up. those types of guys should have no problem keeping a guy like baker in check, especially since the guy had 1 incident in the last 2 years and has been and become a better man since.....


as i wrote somewhere else, i just want to see some success, im not dwelling on how or why we go tto where we are, and those that are upset are no less a bronco fan than I.

i simply will wait for results and if they dont come and improvement is non existent then it will be time for the hammer to come down.


while i am a firm beliver in giving someone a chance to prove themselves, i also am a firm beliver in making people repsonsible for there decisions, and lying in the bed they make regardless of the turnout or consequences.

That may or may not happen with these players or MCD, but its should be noted they shouldnt get a free pass for bad decsions simply becasue we let shanny and or players do it forever.

if you come in here and sing and dance you should do what you say you are here to do, if that doesnt happen then its time to move on. Accountability is paramount in all aspects of work :salute:


Though the fella hasn't been cut by his team yet and is being used as trade bait, I wonder if Larry Foote would be a good leader as well. I don't know how vocal he is (like other Steeler LBs have been) but a player who has a fresh taste of being a SB champion and plenty of playoff experience could light a fire under these players in Denver. I understand Foote is from Detroit and would like to go home but with him, Dawkins, and Bailey (Champ)....that would be some guys to look up to!

I hope McDaniel/Nolan comes in acting like a DIs towards these players. Not necessarily belittling them, but pushing them to their limits and conditioning them better than years past and finding their mean streak/intensity.

[frenchfan]

Just wanted to say it's one of the best draft thread.

Here is a civil and smart debate about what we like or not about the draft... Really very good read...

This is how all debates should be...
We all have our opinion, but that doesn't mean we are all right or all wrong.

I salute everyone :salute:

[bcbronc]

Just wanted to say it's one of the best draft thread.

Here is a civil and smart debate about what we like or not about the draft... Really very good read...

This is how all debates should be...
We all have our opinion, but that doesn't mean we are all right or all wrong.

I salute everyone :salute:


suck up.


:coffee:

[Elevation inc]

Though the fella hasn't been cut by his team yet and is being used as trade bait, I wonder if Larry Foote would be a good leader as well. I don't know how vocal he is (like other Steeler LBs have been) but a player who has a fresh taste of being a SB champion and plenty of playoff experience could light a fire under these players in Denver. I understand Foote is from Detroit and would like to go home but with him, Dawkins, and Bailey (Champ)....that would be some guys to look up to!

I hope McDaniel/Nolan comes in acting like a DIs towards these players. Not necessarily belittling them, but pushing them to their limits and conditioning them better than years past and finding their mean streak/intensity.

i certainly dont belive that we will see the soft practcies anymore, i am quite confident MCD is going to push these guys, while it was nice during the shanny era im sure for some vets it was painfully obvious it was just anotehr factor in how soft this team really was.

last year when we went back and started hitting with pads you could tell the difference. you start that concept before the season and keep it up during, then you look good.

injuries are a part of football and thats a key part of having good depth. for years i felt that we were to soft and didnt run enough, which in my opinion led to many injuries. its clear to me that shanny had a problem finding good depth and thats why he was always so worried about injuries.


MCD doesnt seem that way. these are NFL players that get payed to be physical and work hard. I say get it done and show us what physical football is again here in denver:salute:

[Lonestar]

i certainly dont belive that we will see the soft practcies anymore, i am quite confident MCD is going to push these guys, while it was nice during the shanny era im sure for some vets it was painfully obvious it was just anotehr factor in how soft this team really was.

last year when we went back and started hitting with pads you could tell the difference. you start that concept before the season and keep it up during, then you look good.

injuries are a part of football and thats a key part of having good depth. for years i felt that we were to soft and didnt run enough, which in my opinion led to many injuries. its clear to me that shanny had a problem finding good depth and thats why he was always so worried about injuries.


MCD doesnt seem that way. these are NFL players that get payed to be physical and work hard. I say get it done and show us what physical football is again here in denver:salute:

The wussification of the NFL some teams ha ve taken to becoming easier on thier players and hav become finesse team smaller fast and smart.
Many
Many are good at it as DEN was but then we lost great players to retirement and we never developed true replacements or depth. We have seen over the past few years what that has brought in terms of being elite.

While other teams play smash mouth and see where have gone.

[Elevation inc]

The wussification of the NFL some teams ha ve taken to becoming easier on thier players and hav become finesse team smaller fast and smart.
Many
Many are good at it as DEN was but then we lost great players to retirement and we never developed true replacements or depth. We have seen over the past few years what that has brought in terms of being elite.

While other teams play smash mouth and see where have gone.

thats just it how often did we see ourselves out physicaled by teams like jacksonville, pitt, etc....the mere fact of simply getting back to being physical is a reason to belive we will be better. i find it hard with all these big hitters and physical style players we aquired that we would actually be a soft team. im quite sure the hits that will come in TC can do wonders for getting this team fired up.

i went to TC last year and at times it seemed like the team was merely going through the motions while at times they were also physical, with this new era i feel we wont see that motion football and instead will see physical football in the way it was supposed to be played.

you play how you practcie and for the last few years we certainly have shown that is a legit line.....

[Elevation inc]

suck up.


:coffee:

quit hating.....:D