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CrazyHorse
04-27-2009, 09:12 PM
Has anyone heard of the A-11 offense. It allows for every player to act as an elgible receiver. It looks pretty sick. I don't think it would work in the NFL but it's interesting.
http://a11offense.com/
6 WR's
2 TE's
2 QB's
1 C
http://www.humphinternet.com/a11/Images/AboutBanner.JPG

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 09:17 PM
can't work in the NFL.. you would have inelible receivers downfield on every pass play

tripleoption
04-27-2009, 09:21 PM
I'm not too familiar with it, but I think the point of the A-11 is to spread out the defense and use shifts and motions to try and keep the defense guessing who the eligible receivers will be. I think it started in California, and if I remember right it's basically being outlawed there.

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 09:24 PM
I'm not too familiar with it, but I think the point of the A-11 is to spread out the defense and use shifts and motions to try and keep the defense guessing who the eligible receivers will be. I think it started in California, and if I remember right it's basically being outlawed there.

ahh... ok. So not everyone leaves the LOS.... why would it be outlawed then? Too much creativity?

tripleoption
04-27-2009, 09:29 PM
I can't exactly remember the reasons given. Looking it up apparently a couple of months ago it was outlawed by the NFHS saying that teams running it were taking advantage of a loophole in the rules. It was supposed to be a way for any player to be eligible to catch the ball on any play, but jersey numbering would cut down on that unless you reported in. Also anyone aligned in the interior on the LOS would be ineligible on the snap of the ball.

tripleoption
04-27-2009, 09:29 PM
It was quite creative though. Our HC experimented with it in practice a bit last fall, but we never tried it in a game.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 09:36 PM
It was quite creative though. Our HC experimented with it in practice a bit last fall, but we never tried it in a game.

The coach here at our high school ran an interesting formation about once or twice a game...on one hash he lined up the center and the quarterback, and outside of them to the near side he had one wide receiver. On the other side of the field, outside of the hash, he would line up four of the lineman and a receiver on the end, thus having all seven players on the line and everyone who had to be eligible, eligible, and then in a wishbone formation behind the offensive line he'd line up two wide receivers and the lone running back in the spread system. That lone running back was the back up quarterback.

There were a lot of options out of the formation.

Confused the hell out of the refs, though.

CrazyHorse
04-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Even if it was legal, I don't see recievers blocking defensive ends on the NFL level.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 09:40 PM
Even if it was legal, I don't see recievers blocking defensive ends on the NFL level.

I doubt it too, but it's certainly an interesting topic...

IJOm-IJcbg0

They blindside a lot of defensive ends in it...there are plenty of holes, but especially for high school, it looks like a very effective scheme.

tripleoption
04-27-2009, 09:45 PM
The coach here at our high school ran an interesting formation about once or twice a game...on one hash he lined up the center and the quarterback, and outside of them to the near side he had one wide receiver. On the other side of the field, outside of the hash, he would line up four of the lineman and a receiver on the end, thus having all seven players on the line and everyone who had to be eligible, eligible, and then in a wishbone formation behind the offensive line he'd line up two wide receivers and the lone running back in the spread system. That lone running back was the back up quarterback.

There were a lot of options out of the formation.

Confused the hell out of the refs, though.

That sounds like the 'swinging gate'. I see it run off and on, usually for two point conversions. We see it from one or two teams a year. They may run a play out of it or have everyone shift into a field goal set and just kick the XP. A lot of coaches will see how you adjust to it, and if you don't adjust well or look confused they'll run a preset play out of it. If you've adjusted well, they may just give a signal to shift to FG and kick it. Every once in a great while I see it run during a game, but that's been maybe once or twice in twelve years.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 09:46 PM
That sounds like the 'swinging gate'. I see it run off and on, usually for two point conversions. We see it from one or two teams a year. They may run a play out of it or have everyone shift into a field goal set and just kick the XP. A lot of coaches will see how you adjust to it, and if you don't adjust well or look confused they'll run a preset play out of it. If you've adjusted well, they may just give a signal to shift to FG and kick it. Every once in a great while I see it run during a game, but that's been maybe once or twice in twelve years.

It was very similar to a swinging gate, but it was slightly different. It's been two years since I've seen it now, as he moved on, but it was a very interesting formation.

tripleoption
04-27-2009, 09:54 PM
MB, that was a great find with the video of the A-11. Based on what I know about it (which granted isn't much), if you've got great athletes you could cause all sorts of havoc with it. If you don't, you'll get your butt handed to you. Of course I guess it's like that for anything, but personally I wouldn't try this offense unless you had a bunch of dedicated kids willing to work on it in the offseason and you had some serious talent across the board.

Nomad
04-27-2009, 09:59 PM
It is a nice find! I never heard of the formation either!

West
04-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Just a silly way for an undersized/less talented team to even the playing field with a spreading the field/misdirection offense. Spare me. :coffee:

gobroncsnv
07-21-2009, 06:37 PM
ahh... ok. So not everyone leaves the LOS.... why would it be outlawed then? Too much creativity?

There has to be a minimum of 7 players lined up ON the line of scrimmage, otherwise, illegal formation. If a tackle is lined up too far back from the center, they call this. If a tackle is "uncovered", they call this. Guaranteed 5 yards backwards every play until you get inside the 10 yd line, then half the distance. That's why when an end goes in motion, another (usually) receiver-type has to step forward to the line to "cover" the tackle.
The only eligible receivers have to be at the ENDS of the formation (and there can be only 2), hence the name.

elsid13
07-21-2009, 07:07 PM
The creators were able to get away with it because of the rules govern the punt formation. It allowed not all players to be line up on the line. California HS fixed the rule and thus A-11 goes away.

FanInAZ
07-21-2009, 09:56 PM
How the A-11 Offense would be defeated in the NFL

1. Have the defense's hardest hitting player lined up in tight coverage on all of the receivers.

2. Line up your teams 2 fastest players at DL positions a yard off wide of the center's shoulders.

3. When the ball is sapped...
---a) jamb all of the receives as hard as you can at the line.
---b) have your DLs run full speed at the QB. The center would be luck if he could get over to block one of them. The other would be chasing the QB down while before he has even drop back 3 steps.

This is why Buddy Ryan used to refer to the old "run and shoot" as the "chuck and duck".

gobroncsnv
07-23-2009, 06:56 AM
The creators were able to get away with it because of the rules govern the punt formation. It allowed not all players to be line up on the line. California HS fixed the rule and thus A-11 goes away.

Again, if a lineman is downfield before the ball is punted, it's gonna get called. They can't release from the line as soon as the ball is snapped, otherwise they get ineligible downfield. NFL fixed it before it even got started there.

elsid13
07-23-2009, 06:40 PM
Again, if a lineman is downfield before the ball is punted, it's gonna get called. They can't release from the line as soon as the ball is snapped, otherwise they get ineligible downfield. NFL fixed it before it even got started there.

Once again it was legal because of the loop hole.

From ESPN

"Except that it is perfectly legal on the high school level, thanks to a loophole in the rules that allows all 11 players to be potentially eligible on what is known as a scrimmage-kick formation, if everyone is wearing numbers between 1-49 and 80-99." (The other part of the rule not mentioned by ESPN is "as long as one player lines up at least 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage and there is no player under center."

sources:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=weinreb/090302

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/sep/13/sports/chi-080913-riverside-brookfield-a-11-offense


That rule was "fixed" and ended the ability of the A-11 to work.

gobroncsnv
07-25-2009, 03:18 PM
Once again it was legal because of the loop hole.

From ESPN

"Except that it is perfectly legal on the high school level, thanks to a loophole in the rules that allows all 11 players to be potentially eligible on what is known as a scrimmage-kick formation, if everyone is wearing numbers between 1-49 and 80-99." (The other part of the rule not mentioned by ESPN is "as long as one player lines up at least 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage and there is no player under center."

sources:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=weinreb/090302

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/sep/13/sports/chi-080913-riverside-brookfield-a-11-offense


That rule was "fixed" and ended the ability of the A-11 to work.

My mistake, I saw them asking about this in the NFL. Wasn't considering the use of it for HS...

spikerman
08-05-2009, 05:25 PM
Once again it was legal because of the loop hole.

From ESPN

"Except that it is perfectly legal on the high school level, thanks to a loophole in the rules that allows all 11 players to be potentially eligible on what is known as a scrimmage-kick formation, if everyone is wearing numbers between 1-49 and 80-99." (The other part of the rule not mentioned by ESPN is "as long as one player lines up at least 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage and there is no player under center."

sources:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=weinreb/090302

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/sep/13/sports/chi-080913-riverside-brookfield-a-11-offense


That rule was "fixed" and ended the ability of the A-11 to work.

I officiate in Texas and that still wouldn't work here. Texas uses college rules for HS with a few exceptions. While there is a numbering exception for scrimmage kick formations (punts, FG), it just allows numbers other than 50-79 to be on the line, but they are still restricted by position from going downfield before the ball crosses the line of scrimmage.

spikerman
08-19-2009, 08:48 PM
I just got my new issue of "Referee" magazine and it addressed the A-11. I haven't had a chance to read the entire article yet, but I scanned it and it said that NFHS has made some rule changes that will make the formation illegal. Just wanted to give you a quick update.

Hobe
08-20-2009, 10:18 AM
The chances of a sack are much greater then a completion. Even if the Defense is surprised on of the inside rushers is coming free.

topscribe
08-20-2009, 10:20 AM
The medical industry ought to find it profitable . . . :coffee:

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