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View Full Version : Coach McD on Mike Tirico show in 5 minutes



TheBear
04-27-2009, 01:13 PM
The coach is on the Mike Tirico show on espnradio in about 5 minutes.

underrated29
04-27-2009, 01:15 PM
Can you provide updates please. Mr. Thebear.

Dortoh
04-27-2009, 01:15 PM
Hopefully he does not say "whoops my bad"

turftoad
04-27-2009, 01:17 PM
Hopefully he does not say "whoops my bad"

Are you kidding? His ego is WAY to big to ever admit a mistake.

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 01:17 PM
Hopefully he does not say "whoops my bad"

heh... :laugh:

TheBear
04-27-2009, 01:17 PM
No problem

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 01:24 PM
He did say some t hings that I completely agree with. As far as Smith's hight, there are just very few situations in a game that it makes a difference. Very few 'jump balls' in a season.

I agree with that. I don't REALLY believe that a 5'9 corner is different than a 5'11 corner. That two inches VERY RARELY will make the difference in a catch or not.

TheBear
04-27-2009, 01:24 PM
He is saying that they got everyone that was on their board and had a lot of fun, almost as exciting as game day is for him. Couldn't afford to pass up on Knowshon at that pick. Alphonso was graded by them as a 1st, they took the view that they had 4 in the next two years and used 3 this year. Also on Alphonso just has a nose for the ball no matter when he is on the field (ints, blocked punts, punt returns). Doesn't see height as a disadvantage because of his cover skills and lack of number of jump balls you see in a season. Back to Knowshon, he is a three down football player that can do all the things a running back can do (run, catch, block), doesn't take square hits, just a "football" player. Can't wait to get everyone on the field and start evaluating the team. They are going to be a little different from week to week and Mike commented on all the talent that Orton now has he will play well.

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 01:26 PM
Said what he was most excited about Moreno was his versatility... that they feel we got a three down player, and there are very few players that you feel confident you can have on the field in all situations like that.. and Moreno is one of those players.

**I have always been on that feels we could get a VERY servicable RB in the later rounds. But one can't help but be excited to get a guy like Moreno on the team.

claymore
04-27-2009, 01:27 PM
He is saying that they got everyone that was on their board and had a lot of fun, almost as exciting as game day is for him. Couldn't afford to pass up on Knowshon at that pick. Alphonso was graded by them as a 1st, they took the view that they had 4 in the next two years and used 3 this year. Also on Alphonso just has a nose for the ball no matter when he is on the field (ints, blocked punts, punt returns). Doesn't see height as a disadvantage because of his cover skills and lack of number of jump balls you see in a season. Back to Knowshon, he is a three down football player that can do all the things a running back can do (run, catch, block), doesn't take square hits, just a "football" player. Can't wait to get everyone on the field and start evaluating the team. They are going to be a little different from week to week and Mike commented on all the talent that Orton now has he will play well.

I lost my voice for a minute cause I was screaming so loud about the knowshon pick. :love:

Dortoh
04-27-2009, 01:30 PM
He is saying that they got everyone that was on their board and had a lot of fun, almost as exciting as game day is for him. Couldn't afford to pass up on Knowshon at that pick. Alphonso was graded by them as a 1st, they took the view that they had 4 in the next two years and used 3 this year. Also on Alphonso just has a nose for the ball no matter when he is on the field (ints, blocked punts, punt returns). Doesn't see height as a disadvantage because of his cover skills and lack of number of jump balls you see in a season. Back to Knowshon, he is a three down football player that can do all the things a running back can do (run, catch, block), doesn't take square hits, just a "football" player. Can't wait to get everyone on the field and start evaluating the team. They are going to be a little different from week to week and Mike commented on all the talent that Orton now has he will play well.

Just curious was he asked directly about the height issue or did feel the need to explain it on his own?

honz
04-27-2009, 01:32 PM
He said we knew we had 4 first round picks over the next 2 years and we feel like we used 3 of them this year in getting Alphonso...because they had such a high grade on him. Loves his ability to get his hands on the ball...lots of pass breakups, blocks punts, returns kicks, interceptions...and he turns into an offensive player when he gets the ball in his hands. He also thinks McBath was one of the best DBs in this draft at getting his hands on the ball.

He loves Moreno because he is a 3 down RB. He can run the ball on 1st and 2nd down and he can catch out of the backfield, pick up blitzes, and block on 3rd down...complete back. He is smart, tough, loves to play football, rarely takes big hits even though he finishes runs and never runs out of bounds...he loves all those things to go along with his obvious natural athletic abilities.

He is excited to start camp with pretty much the same group that will be going to training camp in the summer. They asked how he keeps the whole Cutler drama out of the locker room...he said they just need to worry about working hard and getting better, and that he knows the whole situation will eventually die down once the season gets started.

honz
04-27-2009, 01:33 PM
Just curious was he asked directly about the height issue or did feel the need to explain it on his own?

They asked him.

silkamilkamonico
04-27-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm holding out skeptical faith with McDaniels, but IMHO, one that needs to be looked at even moreso that the players we drafted, is how can the coaching staff develop those players and help them progress.

That's in question right now (only because this is the staff's first year), and a far more important tangible than getting "talent". I'm excited to see how they do in this category, and I do have faith that he has a direction in terms of player development because of what he did in New England.

Dortoh
04-27-2009, 01:37 PM
When it is all said and done McD spent a good amount of capital on some of these guys (round 2) if they produce and work out he is a genius if they flop he gets the wrath.

Northman
04-27-2009, 01:38 PM
Well good, that means that Smith should get about 2 turnovers a game for us. Im excited.

Elevation inc
04-27-2009, 02:42 PM
Well good, that means that Smith should get about 2 turnovers a game for us. Im excited.

theres the optimist coming out;)

broncohead
04-27-2009, 03:31 PM
McD better hope he plays liek a 1st rd pick for what we gave up

turftoad
04-27-2009, 03:37 PM
Seahawks receive:
» 2010 first-round pick

Broncos receive:
» 2009 second-round pick (No. 37): CB Alphonso Smith

Analysis: NFL Network analysts Charley Casserly, Mike Mayock and Michael Lombardi are in agreement on this trade: Smith is not worth next year's first round pick. They think the price is too high for a cornerback who is only 5-foot-9 with questionable speed. "It’s a little dangerous to trade away next year’s one," Lombardi said. "You’re taking a chance, especially on a corner, and a small corner at that. That bothers me." The Seahawks will receive the Broncos' natural pick in 2010 and not the one acquired from the Bears for Cutler.

CoachChaz
04-27-2009, 03:43 PM
I guess I fail to see the problem with waiting to worry about next year...until next year gets here.

broncohead
04-27-2009, 03:57 PM
I guess I fail to see the problem with waiting to worry about next year...until next year gets here.

If McD wants to be the coach for more then a year he should start thinking about it.

Lonestar
04-27-2009, 04:19 PM
If McD wants to be the coach for more then a year he should start thinking about it.


unless they get blown out in more games than mikey did the past two years I doubt Pat is going to get excited about a few loses..

A long as we improve week to week considering the almost total revamping of this team.. He is going to get a longer leash than most here think he will..

broncohead
04-27-2009, 04:24 PM
unless they get blown out in more games than mikey did the past two years I doubt Pat is going to get excited about a few loses..

A long as we improve week to week considering the almost total revamping of this team.. He is going to get a longer leash than most here think he will..

I'm not saying he has to have a winning record or even break even. It would look like a huge mistake on McD part if Smith is a disapointment. He also has to think long term as well as short term as far as a teams success. That's what good coaches do anyway.

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 04:38 PM
I thought going INTO the season that McD would definitetly have three years to build this team... although I didn't t hink it would take that long to build one side of the field with our offense looking to be in such good shape with such young studs at both the skill and the OL positions.

NOW... that the Cutler deal is done and gone.... you MUST realize that his leash shortened. It did, whether you want to admit it or not. He now has LESS room to wiggle. You do NOT make an NFL blockbuster trade of a young, pro-bowl, franchise QB that still had a 4 year VERY CAP friendly contract and simply expect people to treat your success the same. He MUST succeed early, because his entire career in Denver will ALWAYS be held up to that trade....whether you liked the trade or didn't. That is the measuring stick now.

topscribe
04-27-2009, 04:39 PM
Here is the interview recorded: http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?id=4105704

-----

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 04:47 PM
Somebody needs to grow a F'ing pair and ask Doogie how he can risk such a high draft pick on 2nd-3rd round talent or trade two 3rd round players for a 4th round blocking TE, or how, exactly a 4-3 DE fits in a 3-4 scheme.

Pathetic.......

yardog
04-27-2009, 04:55 PM
Somebody needs to grow a F'ing pair and ask Doogie how he can risk such a high draft pick on 2nd-3rd round talent or trade two 3rd round players for a 4th round blocking TE, or how, exactly a 4-3 DE fits in a 3-4 scheme.

Pathetic.......

:tsk: You sound surprised didn't the Cutler trade teach you anything? McD is smarter than anyone else just like BB.

T.K.O.
04-27-2009, 04:57 PM
I'm not saying he has to have a winning record or even break even. It would look like a huge mistake on McD part if Smith is a disapointment. He also has to think long term as well as short term as far as a teams success. That's what good coaches do anyway.

considering corners rarely become starters in the 1st year i dont think the verdict will be in on this decision for at least 3 years,which nullifies the question of wether it will cost mcd his job in the next couple years etc...

Northman
04-27-2009, 05:26 PM
unless they get blown out in more games than mikey did the past two years I doubt Pat is going to get excited about a few loses..

A long as we improve week to week considering the almost total revamping of this team.. He is going to get a longer leash than most here think he will..

Not by me, and i mean a lot to this league. :salute:

Dortoh
04-27-2009, 05:32 PM
Somebody needs to grow a F'ing pair and ask Doogie how he can risk such a high draft pick on 2nd-3rd round talent or trade two 3rd round players for a 4th round blocking TE, or how, exactly a 4-3 DE fits in a 3-4 scheme.

Pathetic.......


All pretty fair questions. I do disagree with you on Ayers as long as he is not a bust I think he will stand up and do well in the 3-4 and could put on some weight and become a good 3-4 DE in a year or so. Of course that is just my opinon.

claymore
04-27-2009, 05:39 PM
unless they get blown out in more games than mikey did the past two years I doubt Pat is going to get excited about a few loses..

A long as we improve week to week considering the almost total revamping of this team.. He is going to get a longer leash than most here think he will..

It takes 9 wins to make McDaniels worth it short term. If He wasnt worth it he will win 8 or less.

buffsroam
04-27-2009, 05:44 PM
Somebody needs to grow a F'ing pair and ask Doogie how he can risk such a high draft pick on 2nd-3rd round talent or trade two 3rd round players for a 4th round blocking TE, or how, exactly a 4-3 DE fits in a 3-4 scheme.

Pathetic.......


I am sure he can answer your questions. There is one question that he cannot answer. That is how do you loss a 3 game division lead with 3 games left. Only Shanny and the crybaby can answer that.

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 05:45 PM
All pretty fair questions. I do disagree with you on Ayers as long as he is not a bust I think he will stand up and do well in the 3-4 and could put on some weight and become a good 3-4 DE in a year or so. Of course that is just my opinon.

Of course I don't know but I do have my doubts that he can be a 3-4 OLB, regardless, that question remains and there are too many questions regarding Ayers, not only where he fits but his lack of production on the college level.

Then there are reports that he's going to beef up and play 5-tech, I have my doubts there as well......there are far too many questions for Ayers to be taken so high, and there are reports that Doogie wanted him at 12 if Moreno was gone (Thank God for Knowshon Moreno).

It's painfully obvious that this is not Doogie's strong suit.......

honz
04-27-2009, 05:47 PM
I am sure he can answer your questions. There is one question that he cannot answer. That is how do you loss a 3 game division lead with 3 games left. Only Shanny and the crybaby can answer that.
:rimshot:

Dortoh
04-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Of course I don't know but I do have my doubts that he can be a 3-4 OLB, regardless, that question remains and there are too many questions regarding Ayers, not only where he fits but his lack of production on the college level.

Then there are reports that he's going to beef up and play 5-tech, I have my doubts there as well......there are far too many questions for Ayers to be taken so high, and there are reports that Doogie wanted him at 12 if Moreno was gone (Thank God for Knowshon Moreno).

It's painfully obvious that this is not Doogie's strong suit.......

Agree alot of questions. To be honest on another site I listed him and Stafford as my 2 most likely 1st round busts pre draft :laugh:

God I hope to be wrong VERY wrong

Dortoh
04-27-2009, 05:57 PM
"Ayers hands down and I'm getting pissed at all the mocks that are starting to show us taking him at 12"

My actual quote Friday on a pre-draft thread. Amazing how much more I like they guy once he was drafted by us :laugh:

Grover
04-27-2009, 05:58 PM
I've got mixed feelings about the draft. Hated giving up one of next year's firsts. But one thing's for sure, McD had a plan and he went and executed it.

I'm already sick of analyzing this draft and I'm ready to have the players play some ball. Thank goodness that starts this Friday.

Dean
04-27-2009, 06:42 PM
He did say some t hings that I completely agree with. As far as Smith's hight, there are just very few situations in a game that it makes a difference. Very few 'jump balls' in a season.

I agree with that. I don't REALLY believe that a 5'9 corner is different than a 5'11 corner. That two inches VERY RARELY will make the difference in a catch or not.

I haven't paid that much attention to NFL play selection versus small corners.

We like to throw fade patterns against them if they are in manm man free, or bump cover whether it is in the red zone or in third down situations.

With a small corner the QB does not have to be as accurate. In third down situations if the corner misses a tackle it turns into a big gainer.

topscribe
04-27-2009, 07:29 PM
I haven't paid that much attention to NFL play selection versus small corners.

We like to throw fade patterns against them if they are in manm man free, or bump cover whether it is in the red zone or in third down situations.

With a small corner the QB does not have to be as accurate. In third down situations if the corner misses a tackle it turns into a big gainer.

Of course, Coach, you're talking about a small corner, i.e., the
usual small corner. That hasn't always worked with all of them (see Darrell
Green). In fact, that's what the teams here seemed to try to do to Smith:

ED9C6JWaoPg


Some players, you can take advantage of their apparent physical limitations.
Other players . . . well, they're special . . .

------

Watchthemiddle
04-27-2009, 07:46 PM
Some guys have all the speed, agility, height, size...etc.

Some guys are just football players and get the job done!!

TXBRONC
04-27-2009, 07:48 PM
Not by me, and i mean a lot to this league. :salute:

Without you North the NFL would go to hell in a hand basket.:D

broncohead
04-27-2009, 08:19 PM
I am sure he can answer your questions. There is one question that he cannot answer. That is how do you loss a 3 game division lead with 3 games left. Only Shanny and the crybaby can answer that.

I guess McD will get his chance to win at least 8. If not then Shanny and Cutler (still but hurt he left? It's ok there are people u can go to to talk about your problems) where better.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 08:38 PM
Some guys have all the speed, agility, height, size...etc.

Some guys are just football players and get the job done!!

I love Al Davis.

honz
04-27-2009, 08:42 PM
I love Al Davis.
So does Darius Heyward Bay too, probably! :laugh:

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 08:42 PM
So does Darius Heyward Bay too, probably! :laugh:

So does that hack he drafted in the second round!

Dean
04-27-2009, 08:43 PM
Of course, Coach, you're talking about a small corner, i.e., the
usual small corner. That hasn't always worked with all of them (see Darrell
Green). In fact, that's what the teams here seemed to try to do to Smith:

ED9C6JWaoPg

I agree 100% he breaks on the ball very well and has great hands. However, those weren't fade paterns where he was isolated in coverage. Particularly the first two ints the QBs had a lot to do with the interceptions. He was beat long on one but the ball was underthrown.

It will be interesting to see him against big NFL receivers with quality QBs.

I am not saying he is a bum, but I wonder if his size will be exposed.





Some players, you can take advantage of their apparent physical limitations.
Other players . . . well, they're special . . .

------

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 08:46 PM
I agree 100% he breaks on the ball very well and has great hands. However, those weren't fade paterns where he was isolated in coverage. Particularly the first two ints the QBs had a lot to do with the interceptions. He was beat long on one but the ball was underthrown.

It will be interesting to see him against big NFL receivers with quality QBs.

I am not saying he is a bum, but I wonder if his size will be exposed.

We know they'll expose it, it's a matter if he puts the time in and makes the adjustments to deal with it.

Like in baseball...a pitcher comes into the league on fire because no one has seen his stuff, then the league adjusts and hits him...whether the pitcher becomes effective is whether he can adjust to the other teams adjustments to his game. In football, that also falls on the coordinator for the types of schemes he runs.

topscribe
04-27-2009, 09:10 PM
I agree 100% he breaks on the ball very well and has great hands. However, those weren't fade paterns where he was isolated in coverage. Particularly the first two ints the QBs had a lot to do with the interceptions. He was beat long on one but the ball was underthrown.

It will be interesting to see him against big NFL receivers with quality QBs.

I am not saying he is a bum, but I wonder if his size will be exposed.

Coach, how was Smith beat on the long one? He was out in front of the receiver!

But I know what you're saying. McD seemed to cover that issue, however,
in discussing him in his presser, saying just the same as it doesn't make any
difference in Smith's case. Since McD said he had thoroughly studied every
one of his picks, he must be satisfied that it won't be a problem. We'll see,
of course, but there must be a reason the Broncos had him as a 1st round
talent.

-----

EastCoastBronco
04-27-2009, 09:19 PM
When it is all said and done McD spent a good amount of capital on some of these guys (round 2) if they produce and work out he is a genius if they flop he gets the wrath.

You just summed up the entire McLovin experience in on sentence... The right here, right now generation has spoken...Cue Van Halen...

honz
04-27-2009, 09:21 PM
I wonder how his reach compares to other corners...that's all that really matters. You don't break up passes with your head, you break them up with your hands which are attached to your arms. It's like in basketball where standing reach is all that really matters. Not to say that Alphonso has an above average wingspan, but it would be interesting to see.

Nomad
04-27-2009, 09:25 PM
I have never watched Smith and was wondering how he is in the bump and run! I don't see him being effective with bigger receivers. I could look it up I guess but just wondering if anyone watches Wake Forest ball!

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 09:34 PM
I have never watched Smith and was wondering how he is in the bump and run! I don't see him being effective with bigger receivers. I could look it up I guess but just wondering if anyone watches Wake Forest ball!

Here is a post that was written on the day of the draft... by McKeough

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37954&highlight=draft&page=68

the official draft forum.. pg 68

I've seen many of his games. My brother is a HUGE Wake fan and I catch a lot of their games, and I wanted to see Curry a lot this year so I tuned in.


There shouldn't even be talk of this, "well he would be a top 10 pick if he was 4" taller and faster."

Imagine that -- a CB would be a higher pick if he was more physically gifted. Who would have thought. The fact is, he ISN'T four inches taller and he ISN'T faster. It's like saying, "Oh well hey, this guy would be great if he was just better than he is!"

You talk like you've seen him play? If so, and you're not going on what you just saw on NFLN, you'd know that even in college he was consistently beat by bigger WR's. Taller receivers, strong receivers, and guys with great verticals beat him out even when he was in position to make a play.

There are FEW players in the NFL that can compensate for being grossly undersized, and usually it's through speed -- which he doesn't have either.

He WILL NOT be a Darren Sproles type player for the Broncos, I'm sorry.

He'll be decent, but he will not be great.

He just doesn't have the physical attributes to be a great corner.

Repeat post, but I just don't see how you think he is going to be a big impact player.

Do you REALLY think this guy is going to cover Chris Chambers? Vincent Jackson? Dwayne Bowe?

No, no, no! He is just outsized.

And please don't point out how he's not likely going to be matched up against those players all the time -- but he will see them, and he will see a lot of players like them.

NameUsedBefore
04-27-2009, 09:35 PM
We had four #1s, so we decided to just throw one away.

What logic. Also the admission that this draft class was weak, so shit, might as well throw away a #1 from next year.

Jeebus.


Here's a plan: Instead of using two thirds to "steal" a blocking tight-end, the rest of the NFL probably unaware of McDaniels' hijinks as he made off like a bandit with Quinn, use those picks to get Smith. Come next year, use our 1sts to get a DT and/or a QB. Get Quinn in a later round; or don't at all, we have Graham for ****s sake. With the talks of getting rid of Scheffler does McDaniels plan to throw to the tight-end at all? If he does plan to get rid of Scheffler then I don't understand why we paid a pretty penny for Quinn and not one of the many high ranking pass-catching TEs still on the board.

Some of the things they did in the second round don't make a lick of sense.

honz
04-27-2009, 09:36 PM
I wonder how his reach compares to other corners...that's all that really matters. You don't break up passes with your head, you break them up with your hands which are attached to your arms. It's like in basketball where standing reach is all that really matters. Not to say that Alphonso has an above average wingspan, but it would be interesting to see.

It looks like he has 31.5" arms, which looks to be about average for this years class. Too bad they don't measure standing reach for the NFL combine, but it looks like he plays pretty "true" to his height.

Medford Bronco
04-27-2009, 09:36 PM
IF our front 7 does not improve

We could have Lester Hayes and Deion Sanders in their primes
and they would struggle. Pressure on the QB makes even adequate
corners past their prime look good. See Ty Law Jets in 2005 I believe.

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 09:39 PM
IF our front 7 does not improve

We could have Lester Hayes and Deion Sanders in their primes
and they would struggle. Pressure on the QB makes even adequate
corners past their prime look good. See Ty Law Jets in 2005 I believe.

This was something I said earlier. We've had Champ Bailey in the backfield for years now, and how has that helped us compete against the rush and get to the QB?? We expect this new Smith to do something Champ hasn't?

Im sure he's a good CB... but...

honz
04-27-2009, 09:41 PM
We had four #1s, so we decided to just throw one away.

What logic. Also the admission that this draft class was weak, so shit, might as well throw away a #1 from next year.

Jeebus.


Here's a plan: Instead of using two thirds to "steal" a blocking tight-end, the rest of the NFL probably unaware of McDaniels' hijinks as he made off like a bandit with Quinn, use those picks to get Smith. Come next year, use our 1sts to get a DT and/or a QB. Get Quinn in a later round; or don't at all, we have Graham for ****s sake. With the talks of getting rid of Scheffler does McDaniels plan to throw to the tight-end at all? If he does plan to get rid of Scheffler then I don't understand why we paid a pretty penny for Quinn and not one of the many high ranking pass-catching TEs still on the board.

Some of the things they did in the second round don't make a lick of sense.

It was obviously necessary to trade that first round pick to pick up Smith, or else they would have done it differently. anders said he was their top ranked corner in the entire draft and he was too good to pass up when he was sitting there.

Also, the trading up for Quinn confused me, but they obviously felt like he wouldn't be there in the 3rd. Whether that is true and what info they were basing those feelings on, we will probably never know.

McXanders obviously had a plan, and seemed to execute it to their liking. Whether that plan will pay off in the future, we will probably know 2 or so years from now.

honz
04-27-2009, 09:44 PM
IF our front 7 does not improve

We could have Lester Hayes and Deion Sanders in their primes
and they would struggle. Pressure on the QB makes even adequate
corners past their prime look good. See Ty Law Jets in 2005 I believe.

Agreed. Hopefully Nolan can find a way to get pressure on the QB with our current players. Lord knows there is no way we can have a more passive defense htis year than we did last year. Hopefully they can coach up our front 7 and utilize blitzes to allow them to get to the QB.

Dean
04-27-2009, 09:44 PM
Coach, how was Smith beat on the long one? He was out in front of the receiver!

But I know what you're saying. McD seemed to cover that issue, however,
in discussing him in his presser, saying just the same as it doesn't make any
difference in Smith's case. Since McD said he had thoroughly studied every
one of his picks, he must be satisfied that it won't be a problem. We'll see,
of course, but there must be a reason the Broncos had him as a 1st round
talent.

-----

I hadn't paid close attention and was talking about the 25-28 second segment on the video. However after looking back at it, it is a rerun of a play. The wide screen shows a safety over the top who is not visible on film at the 25-28 second mark. I stand corrected.

TXBRONC
04-27-2009, 09:47 PM
IF our front 7 does not improve

We could have Lester Hayes and Deion Sanders in their primes
and they would struggle. Pressure on the QB makes even adequate
corners past their prime look good. See Ty Law Jets in 2005 I believe.

Agreed, a great front seven can cover up a lot short comings in a weak secondary.

NameUsedBefore
04-27-2009, 09:47 PM
It was obviously necessary to trade that first round pick to pick up Smith, or else they would have done it differently. anders said he was their top ranked corner in the entire draft and he was too good to pass up when he was sitting there.

Also, the trading up for Quinn confused me, but they obviously felt like he wouldn't be there in the 3rd. Whether that is true and what info they were basing those feelings on, we will probably never know.

McXanders obviously had a plan, and seemed to execute it to their liking. Whether that plan will pay off in the future, we will probably know 2 or so years from now.

Seattle took our first, which could be a very high pick... Then took their 3rd and 4th and traded back into the 2nd and got the guy they wanted. "Too good to pass up" doesn't excuse such stupidity, sorry. If it weren't for the Raiders I believe the Broncos would be getting railed for their 2nd-round hijinks.

honz
04-27-2009, 09:54 PM
Seattle took our first, which could be a very high pick... Then took their 3rd and 4th and traded back into the 2nd and got the guy they wanted. "Too good to pass up" doesn't excuse such stupidity, sorry. If it weren't for the Raiders I believe the Broncos would be getting railed for their 2nd-round hijinks.
The Broncos obviously wanted him badly and they were probably worried that he was going to be snagged very soon. I'm sure they started by offering other things besides a future first, but had to end up paying a high price. They felt he was worth a first round pick...we will see whether they were right or wrong.

slim
04-27-2009, 10:06 PM
I thought we had a GM that has final say on draft decisions. Just curious why everyone assumes McD is responsible for the picks.

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 10:11 PM
I thought we had a GM that has final say on draft decisions. Just curious why everyone assumes McD is responsible for the picks.

come on.... its obvious that McD has the same duties that Shanahan had... X is purely a figurehead for the cap. This is the reason X was hired and others walked out the door when they SHOULD have been promoted.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:12 PM
I thought we had a GM that has final say on draft decisions. Just curious why everyone assumes McD is responsible for the picks.

No, I don't think that's the case. I think Bowlen made it clear that his coach would always have final say on football decisions.

slim
04-27-2009, 10:14 PM
come on.... its obvious that McD has the same duties that Shanahan had... X is purely a figurehead for the cap. This is the reason X was hired and others walked out the door when they SHOULD have been promoted.

How is it obvious?

Do you have anything to back that up? An article? A quote? Anything?

Or is it just convenient for you to lay all blame at the feet of McD?

slim
04-27-2009, 10:14 PM
No, I don't think that's the case. I think Bowlen made it clear that his coach would always have final say on football decisions.

When did he say that?

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:15 PM
How is it obvious?

Do you have anything to back that up? An article? A quote? Anything?

Or is it just convenient for you to lay all blame at the feet of McD?

While you're assumption of McDaniels hate is correct, I think he is also correct. McDaniels, as the coach, is, if I remember correctly, the top guy.

slim
04-27-2009, 10:17 PM
While you're assumption of McDaniels hate is correct, I think he is also correct. McDaniels, as the coach, is, if I remember correctly, the top guy.

Well, that's not the way I remember it. But midgets usually have great memories, so I will defer :welcome:

J/K, I think you are wrong.

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 10:17 PM
When it is all said and done McD spent a good amount of capital on some of these guys (round 2) if they produce and work out he is a genius if they flop he gets the wrath.

I disagree, trading up for the TE is pointless, that's not genius, that's pointless.

On the surface, drafting McBath is a picture perfect reach, but when you consider that this pick should have been used to select Smith (Or at least used to trade up and get Smith), it takes on a whole new aura of ineptitude. That's not genius, that's ineptness.

There is no possible way Doogie ends up looking like a genius for trading that pick for Smith, the best case scenario is him getting extremely lucky by getting a ProBowler with a 20-something pick.

But considering the risk, that's not genius, that reckless.......

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:17 PM
When did he say that?

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/344117-mcdaniels-shakes-up-quotdove-valleyquot-and-broncos

It can be interpreted either way, I guess.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:19 PM
I disagree, trading up for the TE is pointless, that's not genius, that's pointless.

On the surface, drafting McBath is a picture perfect reach, but when you consider that this pick should have been used to select Smith (Or at least used to trade up and get Smith), it takes on a whole new aura of ineptitude. That's not genius, that's ineptness.

There is no possible way Doogie ends up looking like a genius for trading that pick for Smith, the best case scenario is him getting extremely lucky by getting a ProBowler with a 20-something pick.

But considering the risk, that's not genius, that reckless.......

It doesn't have to be genius.

All first round picks aren't great picks.

If Smith is a solid, starting cornerback for the next eight years, or, if he is solid for the next two and provides trade fodder, he is worth the pick.

It is a gamble, but its not as reckless as you seem to think it is.

slim
04-27-2009, 10:20 PM
http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/344117-mcdaniels-shakes-up-quotdove-valleyquot-and-broncos

It can be interpreted either way, I guess.


Xanders, 37, will be in charge of player personnel issues, including scouting and contract negotiations, though McDaniels will likely have the final say in selecting the roster. Bowlen said Xanders and McDaniels will independently report to him.

Yeah, kind of vague.

Meh, it doesn't matter. People that don't like McD will blame him for anything that goes wrong.

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 10:21 PM
It doesn't have to be genius.

All first round picks aren't great picks.

If Smith is a solid, starting cornerback for the next eight years, or, if he is solid for the next two and provides trade fodder, he is worth the pick.

It is a gamble, but its not as reckless as you seem to think it is.

I don't think using a first round pick simply to trade him away in 2 is worth the pick... you'll never get another first round pick for him, and if you did, what did you gain?

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 10:22 PM
How is it obvious?

Do you have anything to back that up? An article? A quote? Anything?

Or is it just convenient for you to lay all blame at the feet of McD?

Are you denying that Doogie is making the personnel decisions? Or are you using semantics to deflect the blame for his incompetence?.......

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:23 PM
I don't think using a first round pick simply to trade him away in 2 is worth the pick... you'll never get another first round pick for him, and if you did, what did you gain?

So, if we traded a first round pick for a player that starts for eight years and is decently productive, it doesn't matter because we could have had another first round pick?

I don't think you're understanding the point. If the player drafted is a solid player (at worst) for the next whatever years, it's a good pick, regardless of what we gave up.

This isn't about first round or second round, it's about production. Right now, it's a risk, but if the risk pays off, then it becomes a smart decision.

slim
04-27-2009, 10:24 PM
Are you denying that Doogie is making the personnel decisions? Or are you using semantics to deflect the blame for his incompetence?.......

I am saying that X is the GM and it is my understanding that he is responsible for personnel decisions.

I don't feel the need to "deflect blame for incompetence". I am not McD, I don't know McD, and I have nothing invested in him.

honz
04-27-2009, 10:24 PM
The way I understand it is that both of them are in charge and that they both have to be in relative agreement on any personnel decisions before they make a move. I'm sure one of them has a the power to make an executive decision though, and that is most likely McDaniels.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:25 PM
Are you denying that Doogie is making the personnel decisions? Or are you using semantics to deflect the blame for his incompetence?.......

No, he's asking a question.

It's quote possible that Josh McDaniels, because that's his name (and I don't know who the **** "Doogie" is), doesn't have final say on personnel decisions. And he may very well be right.

:noidea:

slim
04-27-2009, 10:27 PM
The way I understand it is that both of them are in charge and that they both have to be in relative agreement on any personnel decisions before they make a move. I'm sure one of them has a the power to make an executive decision though, and that is most likely McDaniels.

Could be...MO, do a little investigative journalism and get to the bottom of this.

Ravage!!!
04-27-2009, 10:28 PM
So, if we traded a first round pick for a player that starts for eight years and is decently productive, it doesn't matter because we could have had another first round pick?

I don't think you're understanding the point. If the player drafted is a solid player (at worst) for the next whatever years, it's a good pick, regardless of what we gave up.

This isn't about first round or second round, it's about production. Right now, it's a risk, but if the risk pays off, then it becomes a smart decision.

No... you are using the difference between a 2 years and 8 years. If he's a good player for 2 years, and we get rid of him after spending a first round pick.. its a WASTED pick. If he was good, and worthy of a first round pick, you don't get rid of him. If he wasn't good enough to keep, then you trade him away....b ut you wouldn't get a first round pick back.

If we use 1st or 2nd round money on him, and trade him away after only two years.. its a waste of a signing. If he's good enough to justify the first round pick, then why would you trade him away for a 'maybe' player you select in the draft after just two years??? Either way.. if you are only getting just a couple years out of a player you spent a 1st round pick on..its a WASTE...

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 10:32 PM
It doesn't have to be genius.

All first round picks aren't great picks.

If Smith is a solid, starting cornerback for the next eight years, or, if he is solid for the next two and provides trade fodder, he is worth the pick.

It is a gamble, but its not as reckless as you seem to think it is.

No, it doesn't have to be genius (And it won't be), but it does have to be justified, Doogie had better hope it's not a 10-17 type pick or there is no other way to describe it than to describe it as an enormous F'up.

God forbid it's a 3rd-9th pick in the 2010 draft, that's the risk he's taking, and that is reckless. Smith was not a Top 10 pick in this draft and this draft was pathetic.

This is a huge concern, I'd be willing to bet that even the most optimistic Broncos fans winced when they heard the details of this trade.......

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:34 PM
No... you are using the difference between a 2 years and 8 years. If he's a good player for 2 years, and we get rid of him after spending a first round pick.. its a WASTED pick. If he was good, and worthy of a first round pick, you don't get rid of him. If he wasn't good enough to keep, then you trade him away....b ut you wouldn't get a first round pick back.

If we use 1st or 2nd round money on him, and trade him away after only two years.. its a waste of a signing. If he's good enough to justify the first round pick, then why would you trade him away for a 'maybe' player you select in the draft after just two years??? Either way.. if you are only getting just a couple years out of a player you spent a 1st round pick on..its a WASTE...

Honestly, do you read what you type?

If Alphonso Smith is an eight-year starter, it's a good pick. If Denver receives good value in a trade a few years from now, it's a good pick. You assume that other teams don't see value in the player, a typical mistake when evaluating trades.

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 10:36 PM
No, he's asking a question.

It's quote possible that Josh McDaniels, because that's his name (and I don't know who the **** "Doogie" is), doesn't have final say on personnel decisions. And he may very well be right.

:noidea:

Doogie is the one with the final say on personnel decisions.......

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:36 PM
No, it doesn't have to be genius (And it won't be), but it does have to be justified, Doogie had better hope it's not a 10-17 type pick or there is no other way to describe it than to describe it as an enormous F'up.

God forbid it's a 3rd-9th pick in the 2010 draft, that's the risk he's taking, and that is reckless. Smith was not a Top 10 pick in this draft and this draft was pathetic.

This is a huge concern, I'd be willing to bet that even the most optimistic Broncos fans winced when they heard the details of this trade.......

And, once again, you're automatically assuming that the Top 10 pick, as you assert, is going to be a Pro Bowl player.

Krugan
04-27-2009, 10:37 PM
Its already happened, and well, nothing is going to change it.

Its there for the whole world to see, folly or not.

I have a feeling we shall all know by week 10 where the mistakes were made. I have, and this is just an my opinion, to believe we are in for another year of rice paper defense that will still look pop warner. If we are going to attempt, yet again, to run a hybrid defense, we dont have the players with the smarts or talent to do it.

Sounds far to much like last year to me.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:37 PM
Doogie is the one with the final say on personnel decisions.......

Who's Doogie?

slim
04-27-2009, 10:38 PM
No, it doesn't have to be genius (And it won't be), but it does have to be justified, Doogie had better hope it's not a 10-17 type pick or there is no other way to describe it than to describe it as an enormous F'up.

God forbid it's a 3rd-9th pick in the 2010 draft, that's the risk he's taking, and that is reckless. Smith was not a Top 10 pick in this draft and this draft was pathetic.

This is a huge concern, I'd be willing to bet that even the most optimistic Broncos fans winced when they heard the details of this trade.......

I wasn't happy when I heard about it. But I would bet dollars to donuts that money was a contributing factor. I don't think Pat is crazy about the idea of paying for 4 first round picks over the next two years.

They apparently had Smith rated as one of the top CB's on their board. If he turns into a pro-bowl caliber CB, then it doesn't matter how high the pick is.

Krugan
04-27-2009, 10:38 PM
Who's Doogie?

Do you recall the TV show Doogie Howser MD? With the kid doctor?

Come on now!

slim
04-27-2009, 10:38 PM
Doogie is the one with the final say on personnel decisions.......

How do you know?

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:39 PM
Do you recall the TV show Doogie Howser MD? With the kid doctor?

Come on now!

Yeah, I recall it. He was a doctor. He had nothing to do with football. :noidea:

Lonestar
04-27-2009, 10:40 PM
Coach, how was Smith beat on the long one? He was out in front of the receiver!

But I know what you're saying. McD seemed to cover that issue, however,
in discussing him in his presser, saying just the same as it doesn't make any
difference in Smith's case. Since McD said he had thoroughly studied every
one of his picks, he must be satisfied that it won't be a problem. We'll see,
of course, but there must be a reason the Broncos had him as a 1st round
talent.

-----


good post and this may have been said before.. but I'll say it again..

NE did not run on the same model as we are used to..

Right or wrong Josh looked at all of these folks brought them in or went and saw them and the coaches that talked to them and saw them they decided these were the guys they wanted..

He seems to have a plan a nd frankly no one know what it is for sure..

Until he or his picks fail I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing..

Frankly he will have to screw up a lot worse than a few from this draft to be on the same scale as mikey was over the years.... I can remember 4-6 of his 12 or so #1 picks that made it to a Second contract in DEN..

Krugan
04-27-2009, 10:40 PM
Yeah, I recall it. He was a doctor. He had nothing to do with football. :noidea:

Ughhh, the kid coach, the kid doctor...

Yea it doesnt, but this is the human way.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:42 PM
Ughhh, the kid coach, the kid doctor...

Yea it doesnt, but this is the human way.

I'm sorry, who are we referring to? I remember a movie about a kid who played baseball and had a big arm...

Who is "doogie?"

Krugan
04-27-2009, 10:43 PM
How do you know?

Read read this from a previous post, its pretty straight forward.

Quote:
Xanders, 37, will be in charge of player personnel issues, including scouting and contract negotiations, though McDaniels will likely have the final say in selecting the roster. Bowlen said Xanders and McDaniels will independently report to him.

Reading that, it pretty much sums up who has final say on who is on the roster.

Xanders job pretty much says contracts,scouting and personnel, which really does not break down to final roster say. But it does point to MCD making the final calls.

Krugan
04-27-2009, 10:44 PM
I'm sorry, who are we referring to? I remember a movie about a kid who played baseball and had a big arm...

Who is "doogie?"

Come on MB, you know what they are refering to. Man, I guess people take enjoyment out of being thick, or at least the perception of thickness.

slim
04-27-2009, 10:46 PM
Read read this from a previous post, its pretty straight forward.

Quote:
Xanders, 37, will be in charge of player personnel issues, including scouting and contract negotiations, though McDaniels will likely have the final say in selecting the roster. Bowlen said Xanders and McDaniels will independently report to him.

Reading that, it pretty much sums up who has final say on who is on the roster.

Xanders job pretty much says contracts,scouting and personnel, which really does break down to final roster say. But it does point to MCD making the final calls.


Right, it's not a quote from Bowlen (at least it doesn't appear to be). So a reporter hypothesizing that McD is "likely to have final say" means nothing. I think, at the very least, it is a joint effort.

Again, I don't really know one way or the other...but neither does anyone else.

MOtorboat
04-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Come on MB, you know what they are refering to. Man, I guess people take enjoyment out of being thick, or at least the perception of thickness.

No, I don't know who "Doogie" is. He was a character on some show. I still don't understand how this relates to football?

Krugan
04-27-2009, 10:48 PM
Right, it's not a quote from Bowlen (at least it doesn't appear to be). So a reporter hypothesizing that McD is "likely to have final say" means nothing. I think, at the very least, it is a joint effort.

Again, I don't really know one way or the other...but neither does anyone else.

Okay, your right, not straight from the horses mouth.

Although, just from deduction, its more than safe to assume who holds the leash on the roster spots.

Apples to apples I guess.

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 10:49 PM
How do you know?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jim_trotter/04/03/cutler/index.html

"but at the owners meetings last week, McDaniels intimated on multiple occasions that all personnel decisions will run through him."

That's it! It took all of five minutes to find and it's about as much effort as I'm willing to put into proving what we all know to be true.......

slim
04-27-2009, 10:50 PM
Okay, your right, not straight from the horses mouth.

Although, just from deduction, its more than safe to assume who holds the leash on the roster spots.

Apples to apples I guess.

Don't you dare assume....you know happens when you do that.

And I will be damned if you make out to be an ass. :welcome:

Krugan
04-27-2009, 10:51 PM
No, I don't know who "Doogie" is. He was a character on some show. I still don't understand how this relates to football?

Why does it have to, does there have to be a strict line to follow for pet naming someone?

Why dont you google Doogie, get a relation to who that is, place it inside our orginaztion for whom it may fit, or try to imagine where posters would come up with this pet name.

Im done with the doogie talk, hard to believe ive waisted this long trying to explain someone elses pet names...

slim
04-27-2009, 10:55 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jim_trotter/04/03/cutler/index.html

"but at the owners meetings last week, McDaniels intimated on multiple occasions that all personnel decisions will run through him."

That's it! It took all of five minutes to find and it's about as much effort I'm willing to put into proving what we all know to be true.......

Way to take a quote out of context.

Here is the rest of the quote:

The Broncos have gone out of their way to say the draft will be a collaboration between Xanders and McDaniels, but at the owners meetings last week, McDaniels intimated on multiple occasions that all personnel decisions will run through him.

Now, is this a case of a reporter reading too much into a statement? Is it fact?

Me thinks it is BS.

I KNOW what Pat Bowlen said about the situation. He said both McD and X would report directly to him. X is the GM and McD is the coach. See how facts work better than speculation.

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 11:04 PM
Way to take a quote out of context.

Here is the rest of the quote:


Now, is this a case of a reporter reading too much into a statement? Is it fact?

Me thinks it is BS.

I KNOW what Pat Bowlen said about the situation. He said both McD and X would report directly to him. X is the GM and McD is the coach. See how facts work better than speculation.

I did not take anything out of context, it stated clearly that all personnel decisions go through Doogie.......

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 11:20 PM
Way to take a quote out of context.

Here is the rest of the quote:


Now, is this a case of a reporter reading too much into a statement? Is it fact?

Me thinks it is BS.

I KNOW what Pat Bowlen said about the situation. He said both McD and X would report directly to him. X is the GM and McD is the coach. See how facts work better than speculation.

On second thought, I can see your point, it's hard to believe a ****ing word out Doogie's mouth.......

slim
04-27-2009, 11:23 PM
On second thought, I can see your point, it's hard to believe a ****ing word out Doogie's mouth.......

That wasn't a quote from McD...it was speculation from a reporter.

I can see how that can be confusing.

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 11:27 PM
That wasn't a quote from McD...it was speculation from a reporter.

I can see how that can be confusing.

So until Pat Monfort has another Official Blame Deflecting press release saying otherwise, you blame Xanahan for all this bullshit?.......

slim
04-27-2009, 11:30 PM
So until Pat Monfort has another Official Blame Deflecting press release saying otherwise, you blame Xanahan for all this bullshit?.......

I am not blaming anyone for anything.

Unless you were in the draft room you don't know shit. That is a fact.

I have already stated (several times) that I don't know who is calling the shots. I find it funny that others feel they know the ins and outs of the Broncos FO. It really is pretty comical.

Simple Jaded
04-27-2009, 11:32 PM
I am not blaming anyone for anything.

Unless you were in the draft room you don't know shit. That is a fact.

I have already stated (several times) that I don't know who is calling the shots. I find it funny that others feel they know the ins and outs of the Broncos FO. It really is pretty comical.

I know shit when I see it, I'd hate to think this shit is a collective effort.......

bcbronc
04-27-2009, 11:52 PM
Seattle took our first, which could be a very high pick... Then took their 3rd and 4th and traded back into the 2nd and got the guy they wanted. "Too good to pass up" doesn't excuse such stupidity, sorry. If it weren't for the Raiders I believe the Broncos would be getting railed for their 2nd-round hijinks.

this doesn't make sense to me. McDaniels rated Smith a first rounder, so he used ONE first rounder to acquire him. There is some gamble in that we don't know where the 1st will be (I'm assuming McX didn't have Smith rated a top 10 pick, but who knows--he was their top rated CB). that gamble is the trade-off for having an extra season with a player that fits a need and a position that generally takes 1-2 years to develop into a legit starter. the more GOOD players on a team, the better the record SHOULD be.

you think that move is bad because that first *might* be an early pick. I say if the pick is 20+ we got good value; if it's lower than 20 we probably overpaid. but we'll see.

but I don't get why people are such fans of giving up TWO assets to acquire ONE. so we give up a 3rd and 48 to move to 37 instead. 48 got us McBath, the 3rd got us either Quinn or Burton, depending which pick you give up.

we were a pretty bad team last year. we need a lot of pieces. we added three new players to help improve us for THIS season, but you'd rather add one so we can add one more next year, at the expense of two players this year.

Smith
McBath
Quinn/Burton

is better than

Smith
pick next season

in helping to make us better NOW.

rcsodak
04-28-2009, 08:43 AM
Read read this from a previous post, its pretty straight forward.

Quote:
Xanders, 37, will be in charge of player personnel issues, including scouting and contract negotiations, though McDaniels will likely have the final say in selecting the roster. Bowlen said Xanders and McDaniels will independently report to him.

Reading that, it pretty much sums up who has final say on who is on the roster.

Xanders job pretty much says contracts,scouting and personnel, which really does not break down to final roster say. But it does point to MCD making the final calls.

1.Who's the quote from Krug?
2. I seee where it says Xanders will be in charge of personnel issues.
3. The above says McD "will likely" have the final say. Again..who is this coming from?
4. Being the 'man' on personnel issues is different than being the 'man' in selecting the roster. Aren't most HC's in charge of 'the final product'?

Too many questions, still.

I also remember Bowlen saying he'd be the 'tie breaker', which comes across to me as being the 'man' who has final say.

I think Xanders will work closely with McD, and the two of them will work in tandem to put the best players on the field.
And before any big decisions are made, Bowlen will be brought in to the loop.....just like McD said in the cut-n-run'er fiasco. He said any trade would have to go through Mr Bowlen, who hadn't even been consulted yet.

CoachChaz
04-28-2009, 09:55 AM
Call me crazy, but I think it's better to worry about next year when next year gets here.

Nomad
04-28-2009, 10:02 AM
I also remember Bowlen saying he'd be the 'tie breaker', which comes across to me as being the 'man' who has final say.

I think Xanders will work closely with McD, and the two of them will work in tandem to put the best players on the field.
And before any big decisions are made, Bowlen will be brought in to the loop.....just like McD said in the cut-n-run'er fiasco. He said any trade would have to go through Mr Bowlen, who hadn't even been consulted yet.

I believe Mr. Bowlen has already shown us he'll be the deciding factor, no matter the circumstances.

T.K.O.
04-28-2009, 10:06 AM
uhhhhh....GO BRONCOS !:salute:
if moreno gets 1500+ yds this season can we all agree whoever had final say did a heckuva job ?

Gimpygod
04-28-2009, 11:26 AM
It was obviously necessary to trade that first round pick to pick up Smith, or else they would have done it differently. anders said he was their top ranked corner in the entire draft and he was too good to pass up when he was sitting there.

Also, the trading up for Quinn confused me, but they obviously felt like he wouldn't be there in the 3rd. Whether that is true and what info they were basing those feelings on, we will probably never know.

McXanders obviously had a plan, and seemed to execute it to their liking. Whether that plan will pay off in the future, we will probably know 2 or so years from now.


I finally figured it out, this poster, jrwhiz, coach Chaz And others are all antisocial individuals. Shanahan makes half of these stupid moves and they would be going crazy even though most would be pointing out the better half. Since most people concur that McDaniels is a complete failure thus far who is obviously either dangerously stupid or some sort of double agent for Bill Belichick sent to sabotage the next decade of Broncos football (that's my new theory considering all of his protégés have screwed up their respective teams). It's easy to figure out what opinion the posters mentioned above are going to hold... exactly the opposite of the majority. If 80% of people said the sky was up they would say down. Think about it, they used to always talk about how realistic they are and that everyone was looking at things through orange colored glasses and now they are the optimists?! Nope, they are just contrary.

In conclusion here is a McDaniels joke I made up: why does McDaniels suck goat balls? To get the taste of horse wang out of his mouth.

PS I'm no longer optimistic about the Broncos. If we win six games in total over the next two years I will be surprised... I guess that's progress.

Gimpygod
04-28-2009, 11:42 AM
I'm sorry, who are we referring to? I remember a movie about a kid who played baseball and had a big arm...

Who is "doogie?"

Obtuse isn't a good color for you, I suggest Teal.

Gimpygod
04-28-2009, 11:49 AM
this doesn't make sense to me. McDaniels rated Smith a first rounder, so he used ONE first rounder to acquire him. There is some gamble in that we don't know where the 1st will be (I'm assuming McX didn't have Smith rated a top 10 pick, but who knows--he was their top rated CB). that gamble is the trade-off for having an extra season with a player that fits a need and a position that generally takes 1-2 years to develop into a legit starter. the more GOOD players on a team, the better the record SHOULD be.

you think that move is bad because that first *might* be an early pick. I say if the pick is 20+ we got good value; if it's lower than 20 we probably overpaid. but we'll see.

but I don't get why people are such fans of giving up TWO assets to acquire ONE. so we give up a 3rd and 48 to move to 37 instead. 48 got us McBath, the 3rd got us either Quinn or Burton, depending which pick you give up.

we were a pretty bad team last year. we need a lot of pieces. we added three new players to help improve us for THIS season, but you'd rather add one so we can add one more next year, at the expense of two players this year.

Smith
McBath
Quinn/Burton

is better than

Smith
pick next seaso
in helping to make us better NOW.

Except when you're talking about the quarterback.... then just any old hack will do. You are supportive when we get rid of the best players "to make the team better" I thought individuals were completely unimportant, it's all about team. Seems like whatever McDaniels does, regardless of how patently awful the decision, you come up with a twisted logic in support. That's cool. I'm still trying to figure out if no one person is more important than the team then why is McDaniels ego more important than the team and the team's future?

TXBRONC
04-28-2009, 12:17 PM
Except when you're talking about the quarterback.... then just any old hack will do. You are supportive when we get rid of the best players "to make the team better" I thought individuals were completely unimportant, it's all about team. Seems like whatever McDaniels does, regardless of how patently awful the decision, you come up with a twisted logic in support. That's cool. I'm still trying to figure out if no one person is more important than the team then why is McDaniels ego more important than the team and the team's future?

It's interesting because it wasn't that long ago that several people thought we didn't need quality corner backs just so long as the front seven was taken care of. It appears that McDaniels thinks he has more than enough talent on the front seven to be competitive. We'll soon find out if he was right.

dunk7
04-28-2009, 12:52 PM
this doesn't make sense to me. McDaniels rated Smith a first rounder, so he used ONE first rounder to acquire him. There is some gamble in that we don't know where the 1st will be (I'm assuming McX didn't have Smith rated a top 10 pick, but who knows--he was their top rated CB). that gamble is the trade-off for having an extra season with a player that fits a need and a position that generally takes 1-2 years to develop into a legit starter. the more GOOD players on a team, the better the record SHOULD be.

you think that move is bad because that first *might* be an early pick. I say if the pick is 20+ we got good value; if it's lower than 20 we probably overpaid. but we'll see.

but I don't get why people are such fans of giving up TWO assets to acquire ONE. so we give up a 3rd and 48 to move to 37 instead. 48 got us McBath, the 3rd got us either Quinn or Burton, depending which pick you give up.

we were a pretty bad team last year. we need a lot of pieces. we added three new players to help improve us for THIS season, but you'd rather add one so we can add one more next year, at the expense of two players this year.

Smith
McBath
Quinn/Burton

is better than

Smith
pick next season

in helping to make us better NOW.

WOW...McDouche serves up some good koolaid...According to this logic, we should have leveraged every pick from next year to get more "good" players (cause I still don't see anyone capable of stopping the run or rushing the passer), no matter if they were an actual need or not. If the Broncos finish 3-13 or 4-12, do you still consider the moves a success?

bcbronc
04-28-2009, 01:08 PM
Except when you're talking about the quarterback.... then just any old hack will do. You are supportive when we get rid of the best players "to make the team better" I thought individuals were completely unimportant, it's all about team. Seems like whatever McDaniels does, regardless of how patently awful the decision, you come up with a twisted logic in support. That's cool. I'm still trying to figure out if no one person is more important than the team then why is McDaniels ego more important than the team and the team's future?

*yaaaaaawn*. boring post.

convenient you forget that Cutler DEMANDED a trade at least TWICE. it's funny, Cutler does everything in his power to force a trade, including basically spitting in the face of the owner that brought us TWO Lombardi's, yet you manage to come up with a twisted logic in support. that's cool. I'm still trying to figure out if no one person is more important than the team then why is Cutler's big right arm more important than the team and team's future?

at this point, nothing McDaniels has done is "patently awful" because we don't know how any of this will freakin turn out. it's really not that difficult a concept.


WOW...McDouche serves up some good koolaid...According to this logic, we should have leveraged every pick from next year to get more "good" players (cause I still don't see anyone capable of stopping the run or rushing the passer), no matter if they were an actual need or not. If the Broncos finish 3-13 or 4-12, do you still consider the moves a success?

I already said that if the pick we give up is lower than 20, we'll probably have overpaid for Smith. obviously that depends on what Smith can do on the field though.

your post if an offense to "logic" so please don't try to be a smart ass. not every player available in the draft is a "good" player, so you're hyperbole comes off as stupid.

but to continue with the "what if" game, what if we goe 4-12 next season, but then go on to win 7 straight division titles, with 3 Superbowl wins in 4 tries, with Smith a perrennial pro bowler and a Superbowl MVP while Bruton and McBath become the best safety pairing in the league. do you still consider the move a fail?

yeah, what ifs are fun.

:coffee:

broncohead
04-28-2009, 01:22 PM
*yaaaaaawn*. boring post.

convenient you forget that Cutler DEMANDED a trade at least TWICE. it's funny, Cutler does everything in his power to force a trade, including basically spitting in the face of the owner that brought us TWO Lombardi's, yet you manage to come up with a twisted logic in support. that's cool. I'm still trying to figure out if no one person is more important than the team then why is Cutler's big right arm more important than the team and team's future?

at this point, nothing McDaniels has done is "patently awful" because we don't know how any of this will freakin turn out. it's really not that difficult a concept.



I already said that if the pick we give up is lower than 20, we'll probably have overpaid for Smith. obviously that depends on what Smith can do on the field though.

your post if an offense to "logic" so please don't try to be a smart ass. not every player available in the draft is a "good" player, so you're hyperbole comes off as stupid.

but to continue with the "what if" game, what if we goe 4-12 next season, but then go on to win 7 straight division titles, with 3 Superbowl wins in 4 tries, with Smith a perrennial pro bowler and a Superbowl MVP while Bruton and McBath become the best safety pairing in the league. do you still consider the move a fail?

yeah, what ifs are fun.

:coffee:

You must be one of those posters gimpy was talking about in post 115...

T.K.O.
04-28-2009, 02:13 PM
PS I'm no longer optimistic about the Broncos. If we win six games in total over the next two years I will be surprised... I guess that's progress.

wow who do you think we are ........THHHEE RAYDUHS !

dunk7
04-28-2009, 02:28 PM
*yaaaaaawn*. boring post.

convenient you forget that Cutler DEMANDED a trade at least TWICE. it's funny, Cutler does everything in his power to force a trade, including basically spitting in the face of the owner that brought us TWO Lombardi's, yet you manage to come up with a twisted logic in support. that's cool. I'm still trying to figure out if no one person is more important than the team then why is Cutler's big right arm more important than the team and team's future?

at this point, nothing McDaniels has done is "patently awful" because we don't know how any of this will freakin turn out. it's really not that difficult a concept.



I already said that if the pick we give up is lower than 20, we'll probably have overpaid for Smith. obviously that depends on what Smith can do on the field though.

your post if an offense to "logic" so please don't try to be a smart ass. not every player available in the draft is a "good" player, so you're hyperbole comes off as stupid.

but to continue with the "what if" game, what if we goe 4-12 next season, but then go on to win 7 straight division titles, with 3 Superbowl wins in 4 tries, with Smith a perrennial pro bowler and a Superbowl MVP while Bruton and McBath become the best safety pairing in the league. do you still consider the move a fail?

yeah, what ifs are fun.

:coffee:

And what if you precious guido Luongo was jerked around by Vigneault...are you telling me you wouldn't have ill will. He is the only reason your entire pathetic team is in the playoffs much like Cutler was the main contributor in our 8 wins last year. I'd be shocked if Denver finishes with more than 6 wins in which case the trading of our natural first next year will be idiotic.

CoachChaz
04-28-2009, 02:32 PM
And what if you precious guido Luongo was jerked around by Vigneault...are you telling me you wouldn't have ill will. He is the only reason your entire pathetic team is in the playoffs much like Cutler was the main contributor in our 8 wins last year. I'd be shocked if Denver finishes with more than 6 wins in which case the trading of our natural first next year will be idiotic.

The sky is falling...the sky is falling...






...again

dunk7
04-28-2009, 02:45 PM
The sky is falling...the sky is falling...


...again

Well, we lost our franchise QB and failed to address our #1 need in the draft while making pitiful trades (Smith? Quinn? WTF!). So yes, the sky is falling.

rcsodak
04-28-2009, 07:29 PM
Except when you're talking about the quarterback.... then just any old hack will do. You are supportive when we get rid of the best players "to make the team better" I thought individuals were completely unimportant, it's all about team. Seems like whatever McDaniels does, regardless of how patently awful the decision, you come up with a twisted logic in support. That's cool. I'm still trying to figure out if no one person is more important than the team then why is McDaniels ego more important than the team and the team's future?

Evidently you think the team quit cut-n-run'er...



...while alot of us think the reverse is true.

He asked to be traded after Shanny was dumped and bates jr left.
He wouldn't answer or call back THE OWNER's calls.
He wouldn't take a shit without his overcalculating agent being present.
He wouldn't answer/return phone calls from his teammates.

I'd say whiney-crybaby quit the team.

At that point, you get what you can for him, and move along.

You find players that WANT to be on your team.

Are smart.

Confident.

Teachable.

Team Players!

Mission Accomplished.


In the meantime, ya'll can play the blame McD game to your little hearts content, before he even coaches a game.

Makes sense to me..... :rolleyes:

rcsodak
04-28-2009, 07:33 PM
WOW...McDouche serves up some good koolaid...According to this logic, we should have leveraged every pick from next year to get more "good" players (cause I still don't see anyone capable of stopping the run or rushing the passer), no matter if they were an actual need or not. If the Broncos finish 3-13 or 4-12, do you still consider the moves a success?

Were you a "fire Shanny" proponent?

To all who were......




....I remember quite clearly how it was "ok if they start over and suck for awhile".



Ya'll may just get what you publicly asked for.


Deal with it. :coffee:

hotcarl
04-28-2009, 07:38 PM
Well, we lost our franchise QB and failed to address our #1 need in the draft while making pitiful trades (Smith? Quinn? WTF!). So yes, the sky is falling.

or maybe you dont know shit yet? anything is possible in the offseason!!

0-16 or 16-0 is all just speculation

i think somewhere in the middle is more likely while we develop, but who knows? the only thing i know is that you dont know shit.

peace
:welcome:

rcsodak
04-28-2009, 07:43 PM
Well, we lost our franchise QB and failed to address our #1 need in the draft while making pitiful trades (Smith? Quinn? WTF!). So yes, the sky is falling.

I'm still waiting for my question from forever ago....



What made cut-n-run'er a "franchise qb"?

Was it his losing record?

Was it his throwing int's at the most inopportune times?

Was it his public displays of sulking? Cussing out his wr's?

Was it the fact that he was a 1st rounder?


As of now, he's a young qb with unrealized potential. Nothing more/less.

Franchise players put games on their shoulders, regardless of the play of others, and will the team to a victory.

Notice how 'he' played like shit if the running game was being stuffed? That's when he should have played his best.

Notice how he played against lesser opponents? ie Oak/KC That's when he should have played his best.

He was a perennial loser at every age group. Why expect a 180 now?

This way, he can always blame it on his lack of a defense....lack of a running game....lack of a pass protecting Oline....lack of concentration by his receiving corp....poor play calling by the coaches.....poor preparation by the coaches.....

If 'he' is a franchise qb, i'd rather not have one. :coffee:

Tned
04-28-2009, 08:08 PM
It's interesting because it wasn't that long ago that several people thought we didn't need quality corner backs just so long as the front seven was taken care of. It appears that McDaniels thinks he has more than enough talent on the front seven to be competitive. We'll soon find out if he was right.

He stated very clearly today on Sirius that he believes he has people on the roster to improve the front seven. Time will tell.

TXBRONC
04-28-2009, 08:44 PM
He stated very clearly today on Sirius that he believes he has people on the roster to improve the front seven. Time will tell.

I hope he's right for his sake for the sake of the team.