How is the Media Grading the Broncos Draft?

[Tned]

Ok, let's post media grades of the Broncos' draft.

This is the first one I have seen, which is Prisco from sportsline.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11680126



Best pick: Darcel McBath, their second-round pick, is a rangy safety they badly need in the back end of their defense.
Questionable move: Trading next year's first-round pick to draft corner Alphonso Smith. He's a good player, but that could be a high pick.
Second-day gem: Fifth-round pick Kenny McKinley is a smart receiver who will fill the slot position role for the Broncos.


If you count trading away Cutler and trading away next year's No. 1, this wasn't a good first draft for the new regime, even if Moreno will be a star.

C-

[Tned]

Clark Judge -- Biggest winners/losers/gambles

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11680197


Five biggest gambles

5. Darcell McBath, S, Denver: The Broncos must start patching their defense now, but not like this. McBath is undersized, isn't fast and had fourth-round value. The Broncos took him in the middle of the second.

Two sportsline reporters, two different views on McBath.

[TXBRONC]

Ok, let's post media grades of the Broncos' draft.

This is the first one I have seen, which is Prisco from sportsline.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11680126

It doesn't surprise me. I expect that for the most part McDaniels initial draft grade will range from mediocre to piss poor.

[TXBRONC]

Clark Judge -- Biggest winners/losers/gambles

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11680197



Two sportsline reporters, two different views on McBath.

Shanahan would have been crucified over a pick like McBath.

[Bronco Bully]

Denver

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9501382

The Broncos filled some needs and found some parts, but the bottom line is that they are without quarterback Jay Cutler now, and they definitely didn't replace him. Georgia running back Knowshon Moreno was a no-brainer with the first choice, especially since San Diego coveted him. Tennessee defensive end Robert Ayers has the look of a Justin Tuck type; able to rush from an inside position or from the edge.

In the second round, new Broncos GM Brian Xanders went for secondary performers in Wake Forest CB Alphonso Smith, who has a chance to start, and Texas Tech safety Darcel McBath. South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier called Kenny McKinley the best receiver he's ever coached. McKinley started 33 consecutive games and finished with 207 receptions. He could be a steal. The Broncos are still talking about trading productive tight end Tony Scheffler, and that could be a mistake. Fresno State quarterback Tom Brandstater has an NFL arm and was a very interesting pick at No. 174. Grade: B

[Northman]

Right on the money.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/04/27/2009-nfl-draft-grades-final-report-card/

[Nomad]

Right on the money.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/04/27/2009-nfl-draft-grades-final-report-card/


Funny! I don't believe in the grading thing till after the season but all the teams with A's are east coast! Just saying!

[Mike]

We will wait and see. I am excited to see the players they brought in on the field and see what they got. I like the picks...just don't like the cost that went to get some of them.

[Bronco Bully]

Denver Broncos
Grade: B+

Quantity was just as important as quality for a team with so many roster holes. Denver gave up a ton to acquire five picks in the first two rounds and ten overall. But they got quality with the best running back in the draft (Knowshon Moreno), the best 3-4 outside linebacker prospect (Robert Ayers), and a nice value in second-rounder Alphonso Smith.

Giving up a first-rounder for Smith, however, gets Denver marked down. Sixth-round prospect Tom Brandstater is no Jay Cutler, though. If Cutler's unnecessary trade counted in this grade, we'd give Denver an F.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/column.aspx?sport=NFL&columnid=174&articleid=32586

[Krugan]

We will wait and see. I am excited to see the players they brought in on the field and see what they got. I like the picks...just don't like the cost that went to get some of them.

Im pretty much in the same boat. Moving those 2 3rd picks still hurts, not to mention the extra first next year. That one pick could have moved us into a position to get a Bradford, if the simms orton project flops.

On top of that, I just dont see how we fixed the problems we have had for several years. that Dline is just ughhh.

[Northman]

Funny! I don't believe in the grading thing till after the season but all the teams with A's are east coast! Just saying!


I havent looked at them all but the NY Giants and New England Patriots are definitely "A" grades to me. As far as the rest like i said i havent really looked at it.

[Mike]

Im pretty much in the same boat. Moving those 2 3rd picks still hurts, not to mention the extra first next year. That one pick could have moved us into a position to get a Bradford, if the simms orton project flops.

On top of that, I just dont see how we fixed the problems we have had for several years. that Dline is just ughhh.

I would rather see them go after players that have great ability and that fill a general need than to reach on someone they are not convinced fit the need and has so-so ability.

And, after seeing what Stafford got for his contract, I don't really want Denver to draft that high. The NFL has to do something to cap rookie contracts. I am certain that the price tag had something to do with the way Denver was moving their picks around.

[TXBRONC]

I would rather see them go after players that have great ability and that fill a general need than to reach on someone they are not convinced fit the need and has so-so ability.

And, after seeing what Stafford got for his contract, I don't really want Denver to draft that high. The NFL has to do something to cap rookie contracts. I am certain that the price tag had something to do with the way Denver was moving their picks around.

If the Bears do as well as the analysts think they will then we wont be drafting anywhere near the top ten.

[Mike]

From Yahoo Sports...

Denver Broncos

Picks: RB Knowshon Moreno, LB Robert Ayers, CB Alphonso Smith, CB Darcel McBath, TE Richard Quinn, S David Bruton, G Seth Olsen, WR Kenny McKinley, QB Tom Brandstater, C Blake Schlueter.

Positive: Moreno is the best all-around back in the draft.

Negative: Not enough help on the defensive front.

Bottom line: D. It’s hard to argue with the selection of Moreno, who is a terrific player. But you have to wonder what the Broncos are thinking when they take Moreno after signing running backs LaMont Jordan, Correll Buckhalter and J.J. Arrington earlier this offseason in free agency. Sure, the Broncos were ravaged by injury last season at that position, but they worked to fix it already. Considering the needs the Broncos had on the defensive line, not doing more there is highly questionable. Also, giving up a first-round pick in 2010 for the right to get Alphonso Smith could really backfire in a serious way, taking away many of the gains the team made by trading QB Jay Cutler earlier this month.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A2KIPHQdt_VJ_GIBGQM5nYcB?slug=jc-09afcdraftgrades042709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Denver Native (Carol)]

After Smith arrived in Denver, Reggie Rivers sat down with him, and Smith talked about how he loved to go after blocking the ball on punts. Possibly, McD felt he would be a valuable addition on special teams.

[GEM]

After Smith arrived in Denver, Reggie Rivers sat down with him, and Smith talked about how he loved to go after blocking the ball on punts. Possibly, McD felt he would be a valuable addition on special teams.

I see a lot of Darrent Williams type ability in Smith.

[Watchthemiddle]

Media draft grades are pointless!!

They are all different, all have different grades, all think one player is a bust and the other a good pick.....:laugh:

Its kind of like listening to the media before the draft on WHO we should pick.

:coffee:

[LordTrychon]

I see a lot of Darrent Williams type ability in Smith.

No offense intended... but based on what? Height?

They may both be players (and I hope so!) but DWill's strength was in his speed, which was one of the knocks on Smith I thought.

[GEM]

No offense intended... but based on what? Height?

They may both be players (and I hope so!) but DWill's strength was in his speed, which was one of the knocks on Smith I thought.

Size, interceptions, his ability to get to the ball. Special teams play.

[TXBRONC]

No offense intended... but based on what? Height?

They may both be players (and I hope so!) but DWill's strength was in his speed, which was one of the knocks on Smith I thought.

Darrent also played like he was bigger corner and he no fear of tangling with big receiver.

[topscribe]

It doesn't surprise me. I expect that for the most part McDaniels initial draft grade will range from mediocre to piss poor.

If Prisco doesn't like it, I find that encouraging.

I was afraid he would, then I would have worried . . .

-----

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Smith didn't time well, but he plays fast in pads on the field which is what counts. I agree with GEM's assessment that Smith has Williams like qualities. Smith was my favorite cornerback in this draft; and I am absolutely thrilled we have him.

[TXBRONC]

If Prisco doesn't like it, I find that encouraging.

I was afraid he would, then I would have worried . . .

-----

I agree, but a guy I do trust is Mike Mayock from NFLN. I don't what kind of grade he'll give us but I do respect his opinion more so than Prisco's.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Well, we got Moreno and Ayers who were two of Mayock's top five prospects, so I'd have to say he'd like it from that standpoint. I believe he stated he didn't like the value we gave up though either. I believe A-Smith was his #4 corner as well; so we did grab many players he liked.

[CoachChaz]

Everyone knocked Philly for drafting Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard when they had 2 Pro-Bowl corners in Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent. How did that work out for them?

They also got questioned for drafting Mike Patterson one year after drafting Broderick Bunkley.

Question...would anyone turn down the Eagles defense?



Smith is first round talent if not for his size and McBath is extremely versatile. All of our current secondary starters are over 30, so I love the 2nd round picks.

Moreno is a dynamic back that brings ALOT to the table. Much better than the role players we have back there now.

Ayers was the smartest and most versatile of the "hybrids". He can be used in 3 different positions

As far as not getting a NT or DE...who is it that was available that was more talented and a better value than the guys we took?

[Nomad]

Everyone knocked Philly for drafting Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard when they had 2 Pro-Bowl corners in Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent. How did that work out for them?

They also got questioned for drafting Mike Patterson one year after drafting Broderick Bunkley.

Question...would anyone turn down the Eagles defense?



Smith is first round talent if not for his size and McBath is extremely versatile. All of our current secondary starters are over 30, so I love the 2nd round picks.

Moreno is a dynamic back that brings ALOT to the table. Much better than the role players we have back there now.

Ayers was the smartest and most versatile of the "hybrids". He can be used in 3 different positions

As far as not getting a NT or DE...who is it that was available that was more talented and a better value than the guys we took?

That's my question as well.......Besides off the field problems, Brace and Baker sound pretty similiar after reading their strengths and weaknesses (and i know Baker played in a weaker league)! Does Baker have any injury history didn't say in the overall and too bad he couldn't of stayed clean and remained at PSU? It says the main concern with Brace is his history of consistent back problems and I'm wondering if this is why the BRONCOS passed? I know it doesn't matter know but people seem to be really disgruntled about not getting Brace!

[turftoad]

I don't mind the guys we took really. I do have a problem with the way we aquired them.
I don't think we would have had to give up a first to grab Smith. I also don't think we would have had to move up to get Quinn either.

I think our young front office showed inexperience and immaturity with no patience by moving up to grab these guys.

And.............. if we're going to give up a first to grab Smith, why not give Seat. the pick we got from Chicago.

I mean, in reality, Chicago should finish better than us this year. We have a new coach, DC and both are bringing in new systems. We also have one of the toughest schedules in the league. We could have a top 10 pick next year. I can't imagine that Smith is worth a top 10.

Otherwise, I like the Marino and Ayers picks. I didn't mind moving up to grab Brandstater. He could be our future QB.

[Tned]

Media draft grades are pointless!!

They are all different, all have different grades, all think one player is a bust and the other a good pick.....:laugh:

Its kind of like listening to the media before the draft on WHO we should pick.

:coffee:

Ok, media grades are worthless...

Fan opinions are worthless...

I'm trying to figure out why we even have a fan forum. Seems, well, I think, kinda, worthles...

[TXBRONC]

Ok, media grades are worthless...

Fan opinions are worthless...

I'm trying to figure out why we even have a fan forum. Seems, well, I think, kinda, worthles...

Maybe it's time to her down Tned.;)

[NickelTG]

Ok, media grades are worthless...

Fan opinions are worthless...

I'm trying to figure out why we even have a fan forum. Seems, well, I think, kinda, worthles...

It's the big picture...Mcdaniels is a prophet. Any negative input regarding the Broncos "just isn't getting it"...You just wait.......

[omac]

From Yahoo Sports...

Denver Broncos

Picks: RB Knowshon Moreno, LB Robert Ayers, CB Alphonso Smith, CB Darcel McBath, TE Richard Quinn, S David Bruton, G Seth Olsen, WR Kenny McKinley, QB Tom Brandstater, C Blake Schlueter.

Positive: Moreno is the best all-around back in the draft.

Negative: Not enough help on the defensive front.

Bottom line: D. It’s hard to argue with the selection of Moreno, who is a terrific player. But you have to wonder what the Broncos are thinking when they take Moreno after signing running backs LaMont Jordan, Correll Buckhalter and J.J. Arrington earlier this offseason in free agency. Sure, the Broncos were ravaged by injury last season at that position, but they worked to fix it already. Considering the needs the Broncos had on the defensive line, not doing more there is highly questionable. Also, giving up a first-round pick in 2010 for the right to get Alphonso Smith could really backfire in a serious way, taking away many of the gains the team made by trading QB Jay Cutler earlier this month.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A2KIPHQdt_VJ_GIBGQM5nYcB?slug=jc-09afcdraftgrades042709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I think most here echo this opinion; we got some real good players, but we didn't address the DL enough, and we shouldn't have burned a 1st round pick to get a 2nd round cb, specially with the greater needs in the DL.

[TXBRONC]

I think most here echo this opinion; we got some real good players, but we didn't address the DL enough, and we shouldn't have burned a 1st round pick to get a 2nd round cb, specially with the greater needs in the DL.

Exactly I don't have a problem with players we drafted we definitely got some good ones but I think it was mistake to only draft one defensive lineman.

[omac]

Here's Walterfootball's take, but it's on the negative side, so don't read if you don't want to ....

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2009den.php

2009 NFL Draft Grade:

John Clayton said it best: "Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team."

McDaniels had a franchise quarterback and shipped him away for what turned out to be Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn.

Speaking of Ayers, how does he fit into the 3-4? This is why putting together a logical mock draft is futile; Ayers, a 4-3 guy, could be lost in Denver's scheme. Does he balloon up and play up front? Does he somehow play rush linebacker even though he couldn't get sacks in college? Does McDaniels even know he's running a 3-4?

McDaniels traded both of his third-round picks to move up to No. 64, where he took a blocking tight end. A freaking blocking tight end!

McDaniels also failed to address the defensive line. Denver should once again rank dead last versus the run.

And to top it off, McDaniels traded away next year's first-round pick to move up for Alphonso Smith. Smith will play nickel in 2009, while the Seahawks will likely be drafting in the top five next April.

Grade give on 4/27/09: D


2009 NFL Draft Picks:

12. Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
With Tyson Jackson and B.J. Raji off the board, the Broncos didn't have many options here. They took the best player available in Knowshon Moreno. Denver's defense will continue to be epically horrific, but once again, Denver didn't have much of a choice. (Pick Grade: A)

18. Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee
I don't like this at all. Robert Ayers is a 1-year starter who wasn't nearly as productive as some of the other first-round prospects in this class. Ayers isn't a natural fit for the 3-4. Does he balloon up and play on the line? Do you play him at rush linebacker and get debacled in coverage? Then again, this pick was made by the same man who wanted a system quarterback over Jay Cutler. (Pick Grade: C)

37. Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
Alphonso Smith is an OK pick. I don't know what the Broncos plan on doing with their defensive line. The reason for the F? Denver gave up a 2010 first-round pick! If it was Denver's choice and not Chicago's, the Seahawks could be picking in the top five next April. (Pick Grade: F)

48. Darcel McBath, FS, Texas Tech
I guess you can never have too many defensive backs, eh? The Broncos needed a free safety to take over for Brian Dawkins in a year or two, but I really have to wonder what they're going to do with their defensive line. (Pick Grade: B)

64. Richard Quinn, TE, North Carolina
Yet another confusing move by Josh McDaniels, who moved up into this selection. You don't take a blocking tight end in the second round, especially when you have huge holes on your defensive line. It's amazing to me that some teams just don't understand the concept of positional value. I don't care if Quinn becomes a very good player; this selection deserves a Z- because blocking tight ends should never go over defensive linemen in Round 2. (Pick Grade: Z-)

114. David Bruton, FS, Notre Dame
Another defensive back, Josh? I like David Bruton, but it's very apparent that Josh McDaniels has absolutely no idea how to put an NFL team together. What are the Broncos going to do with their defensive line? (Pick Grade: C)

132. Seth Olsen, G, Iowa
Adding offensive line depth is never a bad idea. Reaching for prospects and ignoring the defensive line? That's another story. (Pick Grade: D)

141. Kenny McKinley, WR, South Carolina
Josh McDaniels is either really smart by finding these unknown players who are being considered reaches right now... or he'll be fired by Jan. 1, 2011. I'll lay -200 on the latter. (Pick Grade: D)

174. Tom Brandstater, QB, Fresno State
Josh McDaniels finds his developmental quarterback. I have no problem with this draft choice. (Pick Grade: B)

225. Blake Schlueter, C, TCU
No draft value here, but the Broncos needed a zone-blocking center. (Pick Grade: B)

[Ravage!!!]

Right on the money.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/04/27/2009-nfl-draft-grades-final-report-card/

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I LOVE the comment next to the Broncos... where is WTM? This is perfect for him

[omac]

And to balance that one out, Mike Mayock said on the telecast during the first day that how can he complain about Denver's draft, when they got 2 of his very highly rated players, and another player who he rated as a late first rounder - early 2nd rounder in the 2nd round.

[Lonestar]

I have not read but a few posts here and I'll guess all of them will be bad grades.. Because everyone so loved jay..



Considering Josh is the spawn of an evil media basher I will not be surprised that it will be rated poorly by all..

SO bash the Broncos all you want I will wait to see the results on the field..

[omac]

I have not read but a few posts here and I'll guess all of them will be bad grades.. Because everyone so loved jay..



Considering Josh is the spawn of an evil media basher I will not be surprised that it will be rated poorly by all..

SO bash the Broncos all you want I will wait to see the results on the field..

Come on, Jrwiz; this is about the Broncos draft grade. I think the Yahoo one gave a pretty fair assessment, and gives the general consensus of most posters here for both those who wanted Jay to stay, and those who wanted him out.

[Ravage!!!]

Here's Walterfootball's take, but it's on the negative side, so don't read if you don't want to ....

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2009den.php

2009 NFL Draft Grade:

John Clayton said it best: "Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team."

McDaniels had a franchise quarterback and shipped him away for what turned out to be Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn.

Speaking of Ayers, how does he fit into the 3-4? This is why putting together a logical mock draft is futile; Ayers, a 4-3 guy, could be lost in Denver's scheme. Does he balloon up and play up front? Does he somehow play rush linebacker even though he couldn't get sacks in college? Does McDaniels even know he's running a 3-4?

McDaniels traded both of his third-round picks to move up to No. 64, where he took a blocking tight end. A freaking blocking tight end!

McDaniels also failed to address the defensive line. Denver should once again rank dead last versus the run.

And to top it off, McDaniels traded away next year's first-round pick to move up for Alphonso Smith. Smith will play nickel in 2009, while the Seahawks will likely be drafting in the top five next April.

Grade give on 4/27/09: D


2009 NFL Draft Picks:

12. Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
With Tyson Jackson and B.J. Raji off the board, the Broncos didn't have many options here. They took the best player available in Knowshon Moreno. Denver's defense will continue to be epically horrific, but once again, Denver didn't have much of a choice. (Pick Grade: A)

18. Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee
I don't like this at all. Robert Ayers is a 1-year starter who wasn't nearly as productive as some of the other first-round prospects in this class. Ayers isn't a natural fit for the 3-4. Does he balloon up and play on the line? Do you play him at rush linebacker and get debacled in coverage? Then again, this pick was made by the same man who wanted a system quarterback over Jay Cutler. (Pick Grade: C)

37. Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
Alphonso Smith is an OK pick. I don't know what the Broncos plan on doing with their defensive line. The reason for the F? Denver gave up a 2010 first-round pick! If it was Denver's choice and not Chicago's, the Seahawks could be picking in the top five next April. (Pick Grade: F)

48. Darcel McBath, FS, Texas Tech
I guess you can never have too many defensive backs, eh? The Broncos needed a free safety to take over for Brian Dawkins in a year or two, but I really have to wonder what they're going to do with their defensive line. (Pick Grade: B)

64. Richard Quinn, TE, North Carolina
Yet another confusing move by Josh McDaniels, who moved up into this selection. You don't take a blocking tight end in the second round, especially when you have huge holes on your defensive line. It's amazing to me that some teams just don't understand the concept of positional value. I don't care if Quinn becomes a very good player; this selection deserves a Z- because blocking tight ends should never go over defensive linemen in Round 2. (Pick Grade: Z-)

114. David Bruton, FS, Notre Dame
Another defensive back, Josh? I like David Bruton, but it's very apparent that Josh McDaniels has absolutely no idea how to put an NFL team together. What are the Broncos going to do with their defensive line? (Pick Grade: C)

132. Seth Olsen, G, Iowa
Adding offensive line depth is never a bad idea. Reaching for prospects and ignoring the defensive line? That's another story. (Pick Grade: D)

141. Kenny McKinley, WR, South Carolina
Josh McDaniels is either really smart by finding these unknown players who are being considered reaches right now... or he'll be fired by Jan. 1, 2011. I'll lay -200 on the latter. (Pick Grade: D)

174. Tom Brandstater, QB, Fresno State
Josh McDaniels finds his developmental quarterback. I have no problem with this draft choice. (Pick Grade: B)

225. Blake Schlueter, C, TCU
No draft value here, but the Broncos needed a zone-blocking center. (Pick Grade: B)


The two things I agree with this the most, and you are right, its negative... is the repeated.. "I don't know what the Broncos plan on doing with their defensive line" and the Z- on picking a blocking TE in the second round when we STILL hadn't addressed the biggest need of all. A blocking TE? really?? I mean, I know we rely on those..but really????

So... I'm sure he's a good player..... but "I don't know what the Broncos plan on doing with their defensive line."

[Ravage!!!]

I have not read but a few posts here and I'll guess all of them will be bad grades.. Because everyone so loved jay..



Considering Josh is the spawn of an evil media basher I will not be surprised that it will be rated poorly by all..

SO bash the Broncos all you want I will wait to see the results on the field..

JR... I'm sure you realized that not EVERYONE IN THE WORLD is basing this off because they love Jay Cutler. Thats your feelings, thats your defensive head popping up because you don't like to see that Josh made the same mistakes that you SOOOOOO adamantly complained about Shanahan. If this was shanahan drafting, you would be LIVID and would be throwing out the "just another DAFT" comments all day long.

[dogfish]

Ok, media grades are worthless...

Fan opinions are worthless...

I'm trying to figure out why we even have a fan forum. Seems, well, I think, kinda, worthles...



shut 'er down, T-- we're not experts and we haven't seen these guys play on the field in the NFL. . . . no sense having a discussion or forming opinions. . . . nothing to see here. . . .



maybe i should go start a thread about the '06 draft class, since only now can we accurately grade those players. . . i think that's just what everybody wants to talk about right now. . . .


so, guys, what do you all think of brandon marshall? good pick or not?

[Simple Jaded]

Shanahan would have been crucified over a pick like McBath.

McBath is Shanahan's type of Safety, he hasn't been able to draft a Safety to save his ass his entire career.

Dooige is Mike Shanahan V2.0.......

[Simple Jaded]

shut 'er down, T-- we're not experts and we haven't seen these guys play on the field in the NFL. . . . no sense having a discussion or forming opinions. . . . nothing to see here. . . .



maybe i should go start a thread about the '06 draft class, since only now can we accurately grade those players. . . i think that's just what everybody wants to talk about right now. . . .


so, guys, what do you all think of brandon marshall? good pick or not?

What do you know about anything? You're just some dude on the internet, stick to posting hot chicks asses.......

[omac]

shut 'er down, T-- we're not experts and we haven't seen these guys play on the field in the NFL. . . . no sense having a discussion or forming opinions. . . . nothing to see here. . . .



maybe i should go start a thread about the '06 draft class, since only now can we accurately grade those players. . . i think that's just what everybody wants to talk about right now. . . .


so, guys, what do you all think of brandon marshall? good pick or not?

Too early to tell ... I think we should wait another 3 years before forming an opinion. :D

[Ravage!!!]

shut 'er down, T-- we're not experts and we haven't seen these guys play on the field in the NFL. . . . no sense having a discussion or forming opinions. . . . nothing to see here. . . .



maybe i should go start a thread about the '06 draft class, since only now can we accurately grade those players. . . i think that's just what everybody wants to talk about right now. . . .


so, guys, what do you all think of brandon marshall? good pick or not?

:laugh:

Never heard of him....... what school did he go to?

[getlynched47]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=4104114

Concensus Grades:

C-

B

C

B+

C+

C

A-

B-

D

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-2090/AFC-West-grades.html
AFC West Grades

Denver: C

The Broncos did some very good things in the draft. They got some outstanding players in the form of running back Knowshon Moreno, defensive end/linebacker Robert Ayers and cornerback Alphonso Smith. All three should make big impacts. Still, there are some negatives about this draft that can't be overlooked. Denver added just one front-seven defender in its ten-pick draft despite having a very weak group there, especially on the defensive line. Denver gave up its first-round pick next year to take Smith at No. 37, which was a steep price.

[Simple Jaded]

The two things I agree with this the most, and you are right, its negative... is the repeated.. "I don't know what the Broncos plan on doing with their defensive line" and the Z- on picking a blocking TE in the second round when we STILL hadn't addressed the biggest need of all. A blocking TE? really?? I mean, I know we rely on those..but really????

So... I'm sure he's a good player..... but "I don't know what the Broncos plan on doing with their defensive line."

The Broncos had better have the very best goal line offense in the league to justify trading two 3rd rounders and drafting a blocking TE so high.

Also, Daniel Graham will not be on this team in 2010, mark it down.......

[Ravage!!!]

The Broncos had better have the very best goal line offense in the league to justify trading two 3rd rounders and drafting a blocking TE so high.

Also, Daniel Graham will not be on this team in 2010, mark it down.......

Thats the first thing I thought of when I saw we traded away TWO 3rd round picks to get this guy. ONE... he better beONE HELL of a giant blocker to justify such a move for a blocking TE... and two... since Graham left the Patriots before, don't be shocked to see him leave McDaniels again. McDaniels will trade him away after this year... I think you are dead on.

[getlynched47]

The Broncos had better have the very best goal line offense in the league to justify trading two 3rd rounders and drafting a blocking TE so high.

Also, Daniel Graham will not be on this team in 2010, mark it down.......

Such a stupid move to trade our two 3rd rounders for Quinn. I'm pretty sure that he would still be there with one of our 3rd round picks. When we traded up, I thought that we were going to grab Jarron Gilbert. Boy was I wrong...

[Watchthemiddle]

Ok, media grades are worthless...

Fan opinions are worthless...

I'm trying to figure out why we even have a fan forum. Seems, well, I think, kinda, worthles...


Your clearly not understanding what I am saying..

You got one media outlet saying we got a C, another D, another B....the guy from sporting news an A-...

I guess we can all jump on whatever one we want to like based off of our own thoughts about the draft.

Where did I say in my post that fan opinions are worthless?

[Watchthemiddle]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I LOVE the comment next to the Broncos... where is WTM? This is perfect for him

Thanks for the dig

[ChampWJ]

Such a stupid move to trade our two 3rd rounders for Quinn. I'm pretty sure that he would still be there with one of our 3rd round picks. When we traded up, I thought that we were going to grab Jarron Gilbert. Boy was I wrong...

I agree it was a weird move by McDaniels, but trading up to get a player that most likely would have been available at their original pick is nothing new for the Broncos organization. See: Moss, Jarvis.

[OrangeHoof]

Two sportsline reporters

Two absolute morons who prove over and over again that they don't have a clue what they are talking about. Rob Rang is a good draft guy, though.

[Watchthemiddle]

I agree it was a weird move by McDaniels, but trading up to get a player that most likely would have been available at their original pick is nothing new for the Broncos organization. See: Moss, Jarvis.

Its called the Broncos curse.

But to be fair, we have no idea what went on in that room. Who knows what was being said by other teams about Smith at the time and who was interested in him. Obviously the Broncos thought he was not going to be there when it came time for them to pick. I really don't understand the 1st for a 2nd either, but Smith is a guy they really wanted and did what it took to get him. I can't fault them for getting him based off of the time, energy, and money they spent on him and having him on their board.

All we can do at this point is hope that is pans out.

[Simple Jaded]

Your clearly not understanding what I am saying..

You got one media outlet saying we got a C, another D, another B....the guy from sporting news an A-...

I guess we can all jump on whatever one we want to like based off of our own thoughts about the draft.

Where did I say in my post that fan opinions are worthless?

In the end, everybody will make up their own minds, some wait til the answer is obvious, some start a little sooner.......some are overachievers and are researching players from the recruiting process.......

[Lonestar]

Come on, Jrwiz; this is about the Broncos draft grade. I think the Yahoo one gave a pretty fair assessment, and gives the general consensus of most posters here for both those who wanted Jay to stay, and those who wanted him out.

Said I only read a few posts .. did not see yahoo..

[getlynched47]

The one thing I respect about McDaniels is that he's putting his ass on the line...and he knows it. I hate him for trading Jay Cutler...but he's really putting his ass and his job on the line to win NOW.

There will be no excuses from McDaniels. He grabbed the players he wanted. He got rid of Cutler. He made all the moves. If he fails, he has nobody to blame but himself and he's fully aware of it.

[Tned]

Your clearly not understanding what I am saying..

You got one media outlet saying we got a C, another D, another B....the guy from sporting news an A-...

I guess we can all jump on whatever one we want to like based off of our own thoughts about the draft.

Where did I say in my post that fan opinions are worthless?

I think those posts were yesterday.

As to the grades. This is a thread to post grades and draft reviews. Some of us like to read them and discuss them. It isn't mandatory. You are completely free to ignore this part of the site and NOT read what the media outlets are saying. You are certainly free NOT to care what Mayock says.

Those of us that are interested are free to read, post and discuss what these 'media' outlets write, without people making snied comments because we did so.

[Watchthemiddle]

The one this I respect about McDaniels is that he's putting his ass on the line...and he knows it. I hate him for trading Jay Cutler...but he's really putting his ass and his job on the line to win NOW.

There will be no excuses from McDaniels. He grabbed the players he wanted. He got rid of Cutler. He made all the moves. If he fails, he has nobody to blame but himself and he's fully aware of it.

Exactly!!

He has made it clear that its about winning now. Therefore, we should all expect that too happen.

That said, with the team he inherited had if was not aggresive and made major changes it would still just be the same ol same ol Broncos with a non-scoring offense and dreadful defense.

Another thing though, to be realistic...anything better than 8-8 should be considered a success this year. Also in reality ( whether he wants to admit it or anyone else wants to admit it ) we are obviously rebuilding. And when you rebuild, you don't just do it in one season.

[Lonestar]

JR... I'm sure you realized that not EVERYONE IN THE WORLD is basing this off because they love Jay Cutler. Thats your feelings, thats your defensive head popping up because you don't like to see that Josh made the same mistakes that you SOOOOOO adamantly complained about Shanahan. If this was shanahan drafting, you would be LIVID and would be throwing out the "just another DAFT" comments all day long.


I believe what I saw the past few months that everyone believes jay walks on water.. and therefore no matter what we do we are fools..

Most of them have not played with him and for the most part only a few of them saw him in more that a few games.. and yes they watched his game film..

But that is not everything that makes or breaks a QB..

as I stated in another thread jay was in the almost perfect storm last year for QB's one of eh best offensive minds in football as boss who allowed him to go vertical almost anytime he wanted to.. one of the only all pro WR last year in Marshall and almost Pro bowler in both Royale and Stokely the leagues best OLINE in sacks allowed.. 6-7 RB's that toted the rock well when they were allowed.. two great TE's one to block the other to receive..
a lousy defense that almost forced us to pass the ball..

How could almost any QB not have a great season?..

It is like a DIY wood worker walking into a completely equipped wood working shop with the latest technology.. The perfect storm..

Does anyone here think he is going to get 4500 yards passing next year?

So based on the fact that he had one incredibly good years and he has a rocket arm everyone every where thinks he is a franchise QB..

Sorry I think he was lucky last year and now that he is in Bear country the fans are going to eat him alive..



AS for the draft there were some real disappointments for me there but NO ONE here knows his agenda and what his plans are.. and I suspect we will not know for sure until the fall.. Until then I'm willing to give him a pass and believe that he has a plan and they are on the way to filling it..

So far he has not betrayed my trust mike mikey did.. When he does YOU will be the first to know..

AND yes had mikey DAFTED some of these guys I would have been livd cause IMHO he does not have a clue on defenseive personnel..

[Tned]

I believe what I saw the past few months that everyone believes jay walks on water.. and therefore no matter what we do we are fools..

There is a big difference between thinking Jay walks on water and agreeing with most of the NFL analysts that believe he is one of the few young, franchise QBs in the league.

Your hatred of anything Mikey blinds you to this reality and causes you to accuse us of being 'blind'.


So far he has not betrayed my trust mike mikey did.. When he does YOU will be the first to know..

Did he leave you standing at the alter? Did he breach a contract in a business deal? Did he sell you a lemon car? A bad steak at one of his restaraunts?

What exactly did he do to 'betray' you?

[Lonestar]

There is a big difference between thinking Jay walks on water and agreeing with most of the NFL analysts that believe he is one of the few young, franchise QBs in the league.

Your hatred of anything Mikey blinds you to this reality and causes you to accuse us of being 'blind'.



Did he leave you standing at the alter? Did he breach a contract in a business deal? Did he sell you a lemon car? A bad steak at one of his restaraunts?

What exactly did he do to 'betray' you?

Tned your so far off on this,

I did not like mikey the GM for what he did to this team.. NO one can argue that under his VP'ness he did good things for this team.. once the HOF players retired we have been "one or two" players away from a Superbowl each year..

I know you really liked the kid, but IMHO he is a loose canon and just another greasy albeit with a rocket arm.. some have compared him to Jeff George and the more I see of him the more I think they may be correct..

Lots of talent but lacks something between the ears..

I do not hate either jay or mikey never have never will but It is true I did not think either were good for the team especially since 2003 or so..

[TXBRONC]

The Broncos had better have the very best goal line offense in the league to justify trading two 3rd rounders and drafting a blocking TE so high.

Also, Daniel Graham will not be on this team in 2010, mark it down.......

Why do you think that Link? (I'm just curious.)

[Lonestar]

I have not read but a few posts here and I'll guess all of them will be bad grades.. Because everyone (MEDIA) so loved jay..



Considering Josh is the spawn of an evil media basher I will not be surprised that it will be rated poorly by all..

SO bash the Broncos all you want I will wait to see the results on the field..


Since there seems to be some debate about me calling posters out here for having a different opinion than I do..

Let me go on record saying I was referring to the MEDIA grades and not the posters of this forum..

[Simple Jaded]

Why do you think that Link? (I'm just curious.)

You mean the Graham comment? Mostly because I firmly believe that Bowlen is broke and that Graham's cap number is something he wants gone, assuming there are significat bonuses due.

I believe that Doogie has no use for Denver's incumbent players, especially ones that they had no use for in New England.

Mostly because I am convinced that Pat Monforts pocketbook is weighing to much into the decisions these days, money is the major reason for trading their own No1 in the 2010 draft, I'm convinced of it.......there is no other explanation.

Btw, Jay Cutler is due 16 million in roster bonuses over the next two off-seasons (And is going to break the bank when his contract is up), and Doogie himself said Denver could not afford the extra 6 million it'd take to trade up and get Raji/QB, it is not a coincidence.......

[Watchthemiddle]

Since there seems to be some debate about me calling posters out here for having a different opinion than I do..
Let me go on record saying I was referring to the MEDIA grades and not the posters of this forum..
No, thats just me according to some

:coffee:

[OrangeHoof]

That said, with the team he inherited had if was not aggresive and made major changes it would still just be the same ol same ol Broncos with a non-scoring offense and dreadful defense.

Being aggresive is one thing. But being aggresive and stupid is another.

Follow the chronology here:

* Trades our best asset for two #1s and a #3. Whether you like the concept of trading Cutler or not, you have to agree this was pretty good compensation to set up the team for a major rebuild through the draft.

* Trade one of those #1s for a #2 this year that he then uses on an undersized cornerback.

* Trades two 3rds to get the last pick of the second round and uses it on a blocking TE that could have easily waited until Denver's pick in the third.

While the secondary has lost Bly and has some issues, the real problem is the front seven which were ineffective as it was and then have to adapt to a 3-4 scheme. The problem is that he has next to nobody who fits the demands of 3-4 players along the front seven. Other than D.J. Williams, I don't think the Broncos have anyone who fits the 3-4 defense. Everyone else is either a bad fit or is not using their skill set the best way. So they took Ayers at #18, a guy I've had misgivings about long before he was the Broncos' pick, and then went about trying to fix mostly other areas that were critical needs.

And now, the Broncos have pretty the standard set of draft choices for 2010, except we have the Bears' #1 instead of our own which will probably be a lower pick.

So, with all those chess pieces to play with, the "brain trust" has done practically nothing to address their most glaring need, either in free agency or through the draft.

I don't know how anybody can sugarcoat this but the Broncos couldn't stop anyone last year and now they are planning to use almost the same group and play them all out of position, negating the few skills they had to offer in the old scheme.

Maybe they think Moreno will give them a running game and the running game will help them keep the defense off the field but that idea gets blown out the water the minute they are 14 points behind and, trust me, the Broncos will be 14 or more points behind A LOT in 2009. And once you are down like that, running draws to the halfback tends to look like a sign of surrender.

[Watchthemiddle]

OrangeHoof,

This year is a different phylosphy...different team...different players.

And most importantly, Slowik is gone.

I know we didn't like our D line's production, but has anyone ever stopped to think that Moss, Crowder, and Doom actually has some talent but Slowik never knew how to best use them?

Thats my observation based off of this draft. Moss is a former 1st rounder...I believe he deserves a chance in a new scheme in order for us to see what he can do. I think the new coaches might feel that way too.

[DenBronx]

its really hard to grade a draft until a couple of years later. but on paper right now id have to give it a C-. i absolutely hate what we did in the 2nd. we have bigger needs at de, dt, olb and ilb. why trade away picks when guys will be there anyway...maybe smith would have went but there was still plenty of talent if we would have just stayed put.

trading up and passing on rey will be a huge mistake imo.

the whole 2nd round was a mistake.

i guess long snappers and blocking tight ends is what wins championships. :confused:

[TXBRONC]

Being aggresive is one thing. But being aggresive and stupid is another.

Follow the chronology here:

* Trades our best asset for two #1s and a #3. Whether you like the concept of trading Cutler or not, you have to agree this was pretty good compensation to set up the team for a major rebuild through the draft.

* Trade one of those #1s for a #2 this year that he then uses on an undersized cornerback.

* Trades two 3rds to get the last pick of the second round and uses it on a blocking TE that could have easily waited until Denver's pick in the third.

While the secondary has lost Bly and has some issues, the real problem is the front seven which were ineffective as it was and then have to adapt to a 3-4 scheme. The problem is that he has next to nobody who fits the demands of 3-4 players along the front seven. Other than D.J. Williams, I don't think the Broncos have anyone who fits the 3-4 defense. Everyone else is either a bad fit or is not using their skill set the best way. So they took Ayers at #18, a guy I've had misgivings about long before he was the Broncos' pick, and then went about trying to fix mostly other areas that were critical needs.

And now, the Broncos have pretty the standard set of draft choices for 2010, except we have the Bears' #1 instead of our own which will probably be a lower pick.

So, with all those chess pieces to play with, the "brain trust" has done practically nothing to address their most glaring need, either in free agency or through the draft.

I don't know how anybody can sugarcoat this but the Broncos couldn't stop anyone last year and now they are planning to use almost the same group and play them all out of position, negating the few skills they had to offer in the old scheme.

Maybe they think Moreno will give them a running game and the running game will help them keep the defense off the field but that idea gets blown out the water the minute they are 14 points behind and, trust me, the Broncos will be 14 or more points behind A LOT in 2009. And once you are down like that, running draws to the halfback tends to look like a sign of surrender.

I think some of the defensive linemen we have might fit in a 3-4 but it remains to be seen. The way it looks right now our biggest problem on the defensive line is that we don't have a stud nose tackle to anchor it.

[Nomad]

OrangeHoof,

This year is a different phylosphy...different team...different players.

And most importantly, Slowik is gone.

I know we didn't like our D line's production, but has anyone ever stopped to think that Moss, Crowder, and Doom actually has some talent but Slowik never knew how to best use them?

Thats my observation based off of this draft. Moss is a former 1st rounder...I believe he deserves a chance in a new scheme in order for us to see what he can do. I think the new coaches might feel that way too.

It'll be interesting how Nolan utilizes these players. I don't know much about Nolan (most times I don't know about the BRONCOS.....don't have the time most times) Anyway these coaches see something in these players they like and want to try and work with them.


You know I was thinking....thank goodness a college professor doesn't grade an exam or lab before being taken or an employer gives one an evaluation before they've done the job or given the job. That would be pretty interesting to see without getting a chance to prove yourself!!;)

[TXBRONC]

its really hard to grade a draft until a couple of years later. but on paper right now id have to give it a C-. i absolutely hate what we did in the 2nd. we have bigger needs at de, dt, olb and ilb. why trade away picks when guys will be there anyway...maybe smith would have went but there was still plenty of talent if we would have just stayed put.

trading up and passing on rey will be a huge mistake imo.

the whole 2nd round was a mistake.

i guess long snappers and blocking tight ends is what wins championships. :confused:

Certainly two or three years down the road is going give us a better perspective on just how good or bad a particular draft is.

[Tned]

Thats my observation based off of this draft. Moss is a former 1st rounder...I believe he deserves a chance in a new scheme in order for us to see what he can do. I think the new coaches might feel that way too.

Not if the rumors of the Broncos trying to move Moss for a 7th are true.

[TXBRONC]

Not if the rumors of the Broncos trying to move Moss for a 7th are true.

Yep if the Broncos are trying move Moss for a 7th round pick then I would guess that McDaniels and Nolan don't feel he deserves a chance to prove himself.

[omac]

The Broncos had better have the very best goal line offense in the league to justify trading two 3rd rounders and drafting a blocking TE so high.

Also, Daniel Graham will not be on this team in 2010, mark it down.......

I really hope you're wrong about Graham, but it makes sense. Too bad. Graham is usually about the 6th option on offense, but despite that, he's had a lot of clutch 3rd down and TD catches, and of course, his blocking is superb. I really think if he was still with the Pats during their last superbowl, Brady would've been much more upright and the Pats would've had just a little bit more of an edge.

What concerns me is that right now, we have a lot of very clutch performers; I hope we don't undervalue them and think someone with about equal skill can perform just as well. The system may be good, but we all remember how, despite the efficiency of the system, Brady's receivers would let him down, like Reche Caldwell did when he was their main target. Sure, the system could make him look good, but in the clutch moments, he didn't play well at all. Scheffler, Graham, Marshall, and I believe Hillis are in danger of being traded for various reasons; that would be a shame.

[EMB6903]

Who cares how the media is grading this draft?

talk to me in 2-3 years. and then compare.

[Simple Jaded]

I really hope you're wrong about Graham, but it makes sense. Too bad. Graham is usually about the 6th option on offense, but despite that, he's had a lot of clutch 3rd down and TD catches, and of course, his blocking is superb. I really think if he was still with the Pats during their last superbowl, Brady would've been much more upright and the Pats would've had just a little bit more of an edge.

What concerns me is that right now, we have a lot of very clutch performers; I hope we don't undervalue them and think someone with about equal skill can perform just as well. The system may be good, but we all remember how, despite the efficiency of the system, Brady's receivers would let him down, like Reche Caldwell did when he was their main target. Sure, the system could make him look good, but in the clutch moments, he didn't play well at all. Scheffler, Graham, Marshall, and I believe Hillis are in danger of being traded for various reasons; that would be a shame.

I think at the very least Quinn was brought in as insurance for when the Broncos go to Graham about a pay cut.

Graham has been my favorite Bronco since the day he was signed, Hillis is a close second, I hope I'm wrong too.......

[ChampWJ]

Who cares how the media is grading this draft?

talk to me in 2-3 years. and then compare.

So true. I don't remember specifics, but I recall "media" grading our 2007 draft favorably because we addressed our D-line deficiencies. Thank god we drafted some d-linemen that year, otherwise I don't know where we'd be right now. ;)

[Lonestar]

its really hard to grade a draft until a couple of years later. but on paper right now id have to give it a C-. i absolutely hate what we did in the 2nd. we have bigger needs at de, dt, olb and ilb. why trade away picks when guys will be there anyway...maybe smith would have went but there was still plenty of talent if we would have just stayed put.

trading up and passing on rey will be a huge mistake imo.

the whole 2nd round was a mistake.

i guess long snappers and blocking tight ends is what wins championships. :confused:


Josh had a comment last night something to the effect there were some players there that WE did not think would fit into eh scheme we are going to run..

We got the players we had on our board as being the players that should work into our way of doing things..

He also comment and it was very logical.. There is no reason to draft someone only to cut them later on because these did/could not work in the scheme..

[COMarc]

Don't be surprised if McDaniels runs a lot of 2 TE sets. There's usually plenty of room in an NFL playbook for two TEs to get touches. Should be room for good FB's as well. And, with Orton at QB and Moreno at RB, I'd expect a much more ground based offense than what the Broncos have shown in the past few years. Now the 'star' player on the offense is Moreno at RB. TEs and FBs who can both block power runs by Moreno and also be targets in a passing game will be very useful this year.

Denver fans haven't seen this much, since the QB was always the star here. But, if you remember, when Elway and Shanahan finally won their Super Bowls, they had another 2000 yard back from Georgia carrying the ball for them.

[NameUsedBefore]

Not sure if it's posted,

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11683687


Denver Broncos: D
Without Mike Shanahan's magic touch for finding late-round running backs or a certain franchise quarterback in which to build their offense around, the Broncos shifted their attention to a new star runner with Knowshon Moreno in the first round. Selecting pass rusher Robert Ayers a few picks later gave the team a rush linebacker to build their 3-4 defense around. From there, however, a series of solid defensive backs (Alphonso Smith, Darcel McBath, David Bruton) was lost a bit in a shuffle of trades with Seattle that essentially gave the Broncos third- and fourth-round picks in a weak 2009 draft for a first-round pick in next year's draft. The decision is one of several in a mystifying offseason in Denver.

Kansas City Chiefs: C-
General manager Scott Pioli began the laborious process of turning around a franchise that finished 2-14 in 2008 and using a 4-3 defense with defensive end Tyson Jackson with the third overall pick. The pick wasn't flashy, but Jackson, along with Alex Magee, should help the Chiefs in their transition to the new scheme. With questions surrounding the ability of their current linebackers to function well in the new scheme, it was surprising Pioli didn't use a single draft selection on the position. Many of the Chiefs' picks were, instead, developmental prospects. In fact, Mr. Irrelevant, kicker Ryan Succop, could be one of the few new Chiefs to have a significant immediate impact as a rookie.

Oakland Raiders: D
The 2009 draft provided ample ammunition for those who argue the game has passed Al Davis by. The Raiders consistently reached on draft day, spending the seventh overall pick on a size/speed project in Darrius Heyward-Bey and the 47th overall pick on relative unknown safety Michael Mitchell, who was not among the 300-plus players invited to the combine. Oakland's best value pick might be former Florida wideout Louis Murphy, who himself is more of a track star than football player. The Raiders' struggles defending the run is unlikely to improve in 2009 with the addition of a trio of defensive ends in Matt Shaughnessy, Slade Norton and Stryker Sulak who average less than 250 pounds.

San Diego Chargers: C+
With their vaunted pass rush all but disappearing with the injury to Shawne Merriman last year, the Chargers were wise to add one of the more productive sack-artists in the draft in Larry English early, even if they did reach for him a bit with the 16th overall pick. The Chargers also filled needs along the interior of the offensive line with Louis Vasquez and Tyronne Green and took one of the more intriguing developmental prospects of the draft in Western Ontario's Vaughn Martin, a Canadian prospect who at 330 pounds ran a 4.96 40-yard dash and lifted 225 pounds 44 times. Late-rounders Brandon Hughes, Kevin Ellison and Demetrius Byrd are legit NFL talents who could surprise.

[COMarc]

From reading some of the comments out here, I think the place I'd disagree with some is in the feeling that we don't have a QB this year. They got their QB in the Cutler trade. Orton will do just fine at QB.

Orton isn't a Elway or even a Cutler. He won't throw the ball all over the yard. Its hard to imagine Orton ever throwing for 500 yds in a game. He's not that superstar QB.

But, you don't need that superstar QB to win. McDaniels just saw that first hand last season. His superstar QB collapsed on the field grabbing his leg on opening day.

Besides the cheating, the story of the Patriots is that of a coach who makes up his mind what sort of players he wants in his system. Bellicheck has always picked up players who were rejects from other teams, but who fitted what he wanted in a player. McDaniels seems to be doing the same thing.

The thing that struck me when watching the press conf after the second day draft was that he kept saying that players were 'smart'. That's what the Patriots were famous far. Bellichek redesigns his schemes every week. You got to have 'smart' players to do that. The Patriots were always very adjustable. Probably helped that they'd broken the other team's signal codes, but still, the Patriots were always very adjustable. And that's not something I'd say about that Broncos team the last three weeks last season.

To me, Cutler ran himself out of town. The guy wouldn't freaking talk to his boss. How long would you expect to have a job if you boss was trying to call you and you wouldn't talk to him. Cutler should have been here the day after McDaniels was hired wanting to talk football and talk about what the team was going to do this year. I think McDaniels would have been glad to have Cutler at QB if Cutler would have worked with him. But, as Cutler acted like a spoiled brat, it quickly became obvious that this could become a big problem in the locker room. I think at about the time the coaches were thinking 'we got to do something', Cutler opened his big mouth and said 'trade me'. OK.

Orton will do fine. He's a scappy, competitive QB. If Chicago had had enough sense to put him at QB and leave him there, they'd have been much better off. Instead they kept trying other guys like Grossman, even though they won when Orton played. Orton will do just fine here.

Especially since they drafted Moreno. With that pick, Denver went from being a team based on star QBs to a team based on a star RB. Its a different look. But, now Orton with Marshall and Royal becomes the counterpunch off the running game. Pound the ball with Moreno and Jordan and a power running game. Short passes to the TEs and RB. Marshall's a very tough possession receiver. Everyone in the yard can know they are throwing to him on 3rd and 12, and he can still go get the ball. Marshall and Royal still provide deep threats. But now, with Moreno as a threat at RB, those opposing safeties can't be laying back waiting for them.

I'm not sure they can fix the defense in one season. Its been running down for a couple of years, and ended up so bad last year, that I'm not sure a one-year turnaround is possible. But the offense will be just fine this year. With the benefit that a more running oriented attack can hold the ball, burn time of possession, and help protect that pitiful defense a bit.

Drafting Moreno at RB is what will make this all work next year. That was a key pick. It completely changed the look of the Broncos.

[EMB6903]

Josh had a comment last night something to the effect there were some players there that WE did not think would fit into eh scheme we are going to run..

We got the players we had on our board as being the players that should work into our way of doing things..

He also comment and it was very logical.. There is no reason to draft someone only to cut them later on because these did/could not work in the scheme..

I completely agree with what you have to say... but let me ask this...

What would your feelings be if Shanahan still stuck around and he drafted Moreno... Im pretty sure you would be one of the few hating on the pick

[omac]

Don't be surprised if McDaniels runs a lot of 2 TE sets. There's usually plenty of room in an NFL playbook for two TEs to get touches. Should be room for good FB's as well. And, with Orton at QB and Moreno at RB, I'd expect a much more ground based offense than what the Broncos have shown in the past few years. Now the 'star' player on the offense is Moreno at RB. TEs and FBs who can both block power runs by Moreno and also be targets in a passing game will be very useful this year.

Denver fans haven't seen this much, since the QB was always the star here. But, if you remember, when Elway and Shanahan finally won their Super Bowls, they had another 2000 yard back from Georgia carrying the ball for them.

Those are great points, but actually, we did see a lot of that. It's the reason why our TEs, Graham and Scheffler, have a good amount of receptions, and why our FBs Pittman and Hillis were very productive when they were healthy. And in 2007, during the Colts game, we used our TEs and FB to build a moving wall. The commentator was pretty impressed with the formation.

Last season, we did not have a consistent RB threat, with 7 rbs going to IR, and were forced to pass a lot.

The reason some posters here think we won't have much use for too many TEs is because McDaniels would rather use multiple WR sets, than multiple TE sets in his spread offense. It's also the reason people believe Scheffler was on the trading block, way, way back, before it became announced again.

Still, very good point on how Moreno will affect our offense. I think you're right. :cheers:

[omac]

Not sure if it's posted,

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11683687

I thought the Chiefs did pretty good, and the Chargers were not bad.

[OrangeHoof]

OrangeHoof,

This year is a different phylosphy...different team...different players.

And most importantly, Slowik is gone.

I know we didn't like our D line's production, but has anyone ever stopped to think that Moss, Crowder, and Doom actually has some talent but Slowik never knew how to best use them?

Thats my observation based off of this draft. Moss is a former 1st rounder...I believe he deserves a chance in a new scheme in order for us to see what he can do. I think the new coaches might feel that way too.

Let's use the ol' brain for a moment here. The 3-4 scheme requires d-lineman with size who plug up the line and allow the LBs to make plays. Moss doesn't have the size to be a DE in the 3-4. That means he'll have to convert to OLB even though we have no idea if he can cover a receiver.

Dumerville is even smaller than Moss. He'll need to be an OLB too. Ayers, the new guy we drafted also lacks the bulk to play 3-4 DE. Crowder, at least, has the size to possibly be a 3-4 DE but he's really only played half a season since arriving here.

So, now you have Moss, Doom, Ayers and Boss Bailey basically fighting for two jobs and only one has any experience in pass coverage. Then for the d-line, there's basically Thomas and a bunch of scrubs.

You can say all you want about Slowik sucking but at least the Broncos were drafting players projected to play in a 4-3 defense where the front seven were chosen with skills to match what the defense required. Too bad some of those guys didn't pan out but, at least on paper, these guys fit the requirements.

Now Nolan is going to take principally the same front seven that weren't good in a 4-3, even though they fit the basic dimensions of a 4-3, and are going to turn them into a 3-4 where guys will be asked to do what they weren't drafted to do, i.e. the DEs having to cover receivers as OLBs and some of the DTs having to fit the duties of DE even though they weren't really that good as DTs.

This is the equivalent of putting together a basketball lineup of five guards and expecting them to beat the Lakers. They *might* be able to do some things well and occasionally pull an upset but they are going to get killed against any team that knows how to exploit their obvious weaknesses.

I had to learn the hard way a few years ago when another team decided to switch to a 3-4 that what you want in front seven personnel is entirely different from what you want to build a 4-3. The 3-4 has no use for undersized players - that's why Doom and Moss will have to become LBs but, in becoming LBs, are they going to be able to do some of the things LBs are asked to do? We don't know because nobody cared when they were selected if they could cover backs in the flat or if they could break up a pass.

The old front seven personnel needs to be largely scrapped and replaced. That's why it is disappointing to see that the Broncos apparently didn't grasp that this weekend. Draft day was their best chance to bring in bodies who fit the new scheme but they didn't do it.

[Tned]

Let's use the ol' brain for a moment here. The 3-4 scheme requires d-lineman with size who plug up the line and allow the LBs to make plays. Moss doesn't have the size to be a DE in the 3-4. That means he'll have to convert to OLB even though we have no idea if he can cover a receiver.

Look at some of the 3-4 teams out there. Their front three are all over the place. Ends as small as 290 or 295, are fairly common, 300 is probably the average. NT's range from 300 or so, but of course you do have some real wide bodies like on SD at 350 or so, but there are plenty closer to 300.

We have DE's and DT's that are 'big' and 'bulky' enough to play the line in the 3-4, the question is do they have the skills to do so. Do we have a bunch of unskilled players, or players that have not played technically sound due to their coaching.

Take Thomas, entering his senior year, he was considered a top 10 prospect, and then he gets in trouble and kicked off the team. He clearly has physical skills, the question is whether or not he is coachable. Did the previous coaches do an adequate job preparing him?

I don't know the answers, but I do know that we can't just assume these guys can't play, because it is impossible to know how much of our problem has been scheme (DB's 7-10 yards off the LOS, etc.) and how much has been player's physical skill limitations.

There have been plenty of teams that were mediocre or plain bad one year, and then after a coaching change, essentially the same team, picked to be among the worst in the league, all of a sudden competes for a playoff spot or gets into the playoffs.

Only time and actually playing games will let us know for sure.

[rcsodak]

Frankly, I could care less of how the media grades the Denver draft.

What do they know that we don't?

What do they know that the FO doesn't?

We'll get an idea after a couple 2-3 years, just like every draft before.

Hyped players fail...

....unknown players excel.

Evidently they're willing to go into camp with what they have, and most likely looking at June 1/mini-camp cuts.

I just hope they're competitive, as I'm a realist.

[rcsodak]

I completely agree with what you have to say... but let me ask this...

What would your feelings be if Shanahan still stuck around and he drafted Moreno... Im pretty sure you would be one of the few hating on the pick
Who cares?

Last I saw, Shanny was gone.

McD wanted a top rb maybe because he's not going to have a top qb. Makes sense. Maybe he wouldn't have done that had he been able to talk whiney baby into staying. He could have stayed with D, and Denver could possibly have 2 first round Dlinemen.

Rather, he may just figure he needs a top rb to take up any projected slack, at least until the qb's get the system down.

I think EVERYBODY was open jawed when he went rb, but if you sit back and look at the big picture, it makes sense.

I wish he would have followed the lead of his ex-boss, and loaded up on Dlinemen, but maybe he's waiting until the june/july cuts happen.