Best guess on our depth chart

[Italianmobstr7]

I'm kind of bored, but this might be kind of fun. Just see what everyone thinks our depth chart will look like around the start of the season. I know it's a long ways away and there's no UDFA signed yet, but still...

QB: (3)
Orton
Simms
Brandstater

RB: (4)
Moreno
Arrington
Buckhalter
Jordan

FB: (1)
Hillis

WR: (5)
Marshall
Royal
Stokely
Gaffney
McKinley

TE: (3)
Graham
Scheffler
Quinn

LT: (2)
Clady
Polumbus

LG: (2)
Hamilton
Olsen

C: (2)
Wiegmann
Lichtensteiger

RG: (2)
Kuper
Murray

RT: (2)
Harris
Gorin

LS: (1)
Paxton


SS: (3)
Dawkins
Barrett
Bruton

FS: (2)
Hill
McBath

CB: (5)
Bailey
Goodman
Smith
Bell
J. Williams


LOLB: (3)
B. Bailey
Dumervil
Reid

ILB: (3)
DJ Williams
Davis
Larsen

ROLB: (3)
Ayers
Woodyard
Crowder

DE: (4)
Thomas
Powell
Askew
Clemons


DT: (3)
Fields
Peterson
Parker

I also think B. Schlueter will make the practice squad.

What are your thoughts and what would you change?

[honz]

Looks pretty spot on to me except for LB...can Woody rush the passer at all? Can Doom cover TE's...he seems fit for the right side. I don't think anyone really knows how our LB rotation is going to turn out...probably our biggest question mark.

[getlynched47]

Well, Ayers will reportedly bulk up and play 5 technique in the 3-4 and some stand up rusher, along with defensive end so....

LDE- Ayers
RDE- Peterson
NT- Fields

WOLB- Dumervil
WILB- Williams
SILB- Davis
SOLB- Reid/Bailey

CB- Champ
CB- Goodman
(Nickel)CB- Smith
FS- Hill
SS- Dawkins
(Nickel)S- Barrett/McBath

Sounds doable...and maybe with a new scheme...things will be alright. I'll hold on hope, because I doubt that our defense could duplicate it's mediocrity from the past 2 seasons.

[ikillz0mbies]

I think your depth chart is pretty dead on. It's interesting to note that Chad Jackson will be cut and so will Torain. I would actually like the Broncos to keep Torain and pair him with Moreno in perhaps a thunder-lightning duo or maybe go towards the Giants route and include Hillis to go with an earth-wind-fire. Unless someone surprises between now and the regular season, I think your depth chart is accurate.

[NameUsedBefore]

DT couldn't look any uglier.

When you say Ayers at OLB, do you mean in a utility role? I'd also slot him at DE.

Barring injury or some other player coming up, I think Smith is #2 corner before season's end unless he's just terrible.

I think someone in the core of the offensive line will usurp a starter before the season starts (either because of injury or play).

[Watchthemiddle]

I am not good at these, so I can't participate in it...:laugh:

That said, i can't wait to see who we pick up after the June 1st cuts to hopefuly fill some of the LB help or DL help.

[getlynched47]

I think your depth chart is pretty dead on. It's interesting to note that Chad Jackson will be cut and so will Torain. I would actually like the Broncos to keep Torain and pair him with Moreno in perhaps a thunder-lightning duo or maybe go towards the Giants route and include Hillis to go with an earth-wind-fire. Unless someone surprises between now and the regular season, I think your depth chart is accurate.

I don't think Chad Jackson will be cut. He has a better chance to make the team than McKinley since he's far more experienced in the system.

Torain and Young are as good as gone. I would look for a Moreno, Hillis, and Buckhalter thing like Wind, Earth, and Fire or something like that. Arrington and Jordan will battle it out for the 4th runningback spot. We'll carry 4 runningbacks IMO, with Hillis being the fullback and 4th runningback.

[Italianmobstr7]

I think your depth chart is pretty dead on. It's interesting to note that Chad Jackson will be cut and so will Torain. I would actually like the Broncos to keep Torain and pair him with Moreno in perhaps a thunder-lightning duo or maybe go towards the Giants route and include Hillis to go with an earth-wind-fire. Unless someone surprises between now and the regular season, I think your depth chart is accurate.

Well, the Pats cut Chad Jackson once before so it wouldn't surprise me to see Mcdaniels do it again especially since he brought in Gaffney in the offseason. It was hard to cut a couple players, but with only 53 on the roster there's going to be some tough cuts. I also would like to see Torain stay, but he's often injured. McDaniels will be keeping Arrington for sure (McD loved the fact that he can pass block and was the only RB the Cards used in the SB) Buckhalter I think fits the scheme pretty well and can be a decent 3rd down back. Lamont Jordan was a Pat last year and has a leg up on the competition because he knows the system. He can help teach it to the other players.


DT couldn't look any uglier.

When you say Ayers at OLB, do you mean in a utility role? I'd also slot him at DE.

Barring injury or some other player coming up, I think Smith is #2 corner before season's end unless he's just terrible.

I think someone in the core of the offensive line will usurp a starter before the season starts (either because of injury or play).

It's hard to place Ayers right now because he could be a DE/Hybrid, just like Darrell Reid probably will be. I just placed him where I think he'll play most of the time. I agree with you on Smith being the #2 before season's end. I doubt McD will start him going in to the season though. He'd have to have a great pre-season.

I don't think ANYONE on the o-line will be replaced. They gave up the fewest sacks of anyone last year. It would have to be someone getting hurt that would cause it to happen. McD has done some questionable things, but he won't mess with the O-line.

[Watchthemiddle]

I don't think Chad Jackson will be cut. He has a better chance to make the team than McKinley since he's far more experienced in the system.

Torain and Young are as good as gone. I would look for a Moreno, Hillis, and Buckhalter thing like Wind, Earth, and Fire or something like that. Arrington and Jordan will battle it out for the 4th runningback spot. We'll carry 4 runningbacks IMO, with Hillis being the fullback and 4th runningback.

We could also move over a LB to play FB like Larsen if needed.

You really think McKinley would be cut? I disagree...he will be a beast for this team. Take over the slot when Stokley decides to hang it up or gets another concussion. Potential coming out the roof.

[Italianmobstr7]

I don't think Chad Jackson will be cut. He has a better chance to make the team than McKinley since he's far more experienced in the system.

Torain and Young are as good as gone. I would look for a Moreno, Hillis, and Buckhalter thing like Wind, Earth, and Fire or something like that. Arrington and Jordan will battle it out for the 4th runningback spot. We'll carry 4 runningbacks IMO, with Hillis being the fullback and 4th runningback.

Jackson is probably gone. He has familiarity with the system, but he was cut from it for a reason. That's why they brought in Caldwell. They also traded up to draft McKinley. He's probably a lock to make the team.

As for Arrington, Jordan go a few posts up and read. Both of them will be on the opening day roster. McD loves both of them.

[ikillz0mbies]

From the 3 RB's that were signed (Buckhalter, Jordan, Arrington), I think one of them will be cut. And that one would be Buckhalter. As good as he can be on 3rd down, Arrington and Jordan have a leg up over him. Jordan has familiarity with the system and Arrington can return kicks and a good 3rd down back. I don't see room for Buckhalter and Young. Torain may also be on the bubble, even though I'd like for him to stay.

[weazel]

so I was trying my best to make a depth chart but I'm stuck...

will Darcel McBath or Jack Williams be playing DT or DE?

and on offense, is it Arrington or Buckhalter that's going to be playing RG?

[ikillz0mbies]

Has Weigmann re-signed with the team yet? I haven't read anything about him coming back, unless I missed something. The Broncos have brought in youth and could possibly take over during the season by next season. The Broncos drafted youth this weekend to groom because they have aging vets at crucial spots. The more I look at this draft, the higher I'm grading it because I can see the philosophy McDaniels has and the reasons why he drafted the players he did.

[ikillz0mbies]

so I was trying my best to make a depth chart but I'm stuck...

will Darcel McBath or Jack Williams be playing DT or DE?

and on offense, is it Arrington or Buckhalter that's going to be playing RG?

You forgot Orton is now the kicker for the team.

[weazel]

I thought thats why they drafted Seth Olson! oh man, now my depth chart is really messed up!

[getlynched47]

We could also move over a LB to play FB like Larsen if needed.

You really think McKinley would be cut? I disagree...he will be a beast for this team. Take over the slot when Stokley decides to hang it up or gets another concussion. Potential coming out the roof.

Very true. It saves us a roster spot. IMO I think McKinley could be placed on the practice squad his first year. We still have Stokely for this year so...we'll see.

[Magnificent Seven]

I think they will move LaMont Jordan to the fullback position and be backup for Peyton Hillis.

[deacon]

betcha money woodyard doesn't make the team. He's WAY too small to be a 3-4 linebacker. If he sticks it will be at safety.

[Italianmobstr7]

betcha money woodyard doesn't make the team. He's WAY too small to be a 3-4 linebacker. If he sticks it will be at safety.

I'll bet that he's pretty safe, but you never know. He's already impressed in the first workout of the year by intercepting a pass and going for a td. He's a hard worker and he earned the playing time he got last year. I'd love it if he was a starter. I don't think Denver will run only a 3-4. I think it will be a hybrid mix of things. A little 46, a little 3-4, and a little 4-3. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[TimBuff10]

I just don't understand what the plan is for the front 7. Hopefully they are working a trade for someone or they will get lucky and pick up someone off the waiver wire. I just don't see our front 7 being able to stop anything on the ground or get the the QB.

[Elevation inc]

QB- Orton/Simms/Brandstater
RB- Moreno/Buckhalter/Jordan/Arrington/Torain
FB- Hillis/Marquez branson(UDFA)
WR- Marshall/Royal/Stokley/Gaffney/Mckinnely
TE- Daniel Graham/Tony Sheffler/Richard Quinn
OT- Clady/Harris/Polumbus
OG- Hamilton/Kuper/Licht
C- Weigman

LDE- Peterson/Pedelesceaux(UDFA)
NT- Marcus Thomas/Ryan Fields/Chris Baker(UDFA)
RDE- Carlton Powell/Robert Ayers/Rulon Davis(UDFA)
WOLB- Dumervil/Moss
WILB- DJ/Woodyard
SILB- Davis/Larsen
SOLB- Darrel Reid/Tim Crowder
FS- Renaldo Hill/Darcel Mcbath
SS- Dawkins/Bruton
CB- Champ/Goodman/Alphonso Smith/Jack Williams/Josh Bell

K- Prater
P- Kern
LS- Paxton

[Hawgdriver]

I'll bet that he's pretty safe, but you never know. He's already impressed in the first workout of the year by intercepting a pass and going for a td. He's a hard worker and he earned the playing time he got last year. I'd love it if he was a starter. I don't think Denver will run only a 3-4. I think it will be a hybrid mix of things. A little 46, a little 3-4, and a little 4-3. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

WW strikes me as a McDaniels type of physical playmaker. If he can make the plays, he stays.

[bcbronc]

From the 3 RB's that were signed (Buckhalter, Jordan, Arrington), I think one of them will be cut. And that one would be Buckhalter. As good as he can be on 3rd down, Arrington and Jordan have a leg up over him. Jordan has familiarity with the system and Arrington can return kicks and a good 3rd down back. I don't see room for Buckhalter and Young. Torain may also be on the bubble, even though I'd like for him to stay.

that's pretty much how I see the RB situation as well. Torain will have to turn some heads early if he wants to keep a job. and I think JJ and Buck are competing for one spot. Jordan has a spot to lose on the strength of being with McDaniels last year and sheer bulk.


WW strikes me as a McDaniels type of physical playmaker. If he can make the plays, he stays.

if nothing else, he's a special team ace. he can also play some 43 Will, 34 ILB, and 8-in-the-box SS. I like his chances.

[Elevation inc]

I just don't understand what the plan is for the front 7. Hopefully they are working a trade for someone or they will get lucky and pick up someone off the waiver wire. I just don't see our front 7 being able to stop anything on the ground or get the the QB.

We obtained Chris baker a NT, Evertte Pedelesceaux 3-4 DE, and apprently Rulon Davis 3-4 DE in UDFA, I love all these players and they will go a long way on our front seven...just my opinion though.;)

[dogfish]

the depth chart at nosetackle:



http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1324/threestoogesbackground.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=threestoogesbackground.jpg)

[dogfish]

betcha money woodyard doesn't make the team. He's WAY too small to be a 3-4 linebacker. If he sticks it will be at safety.

how much money?

i'll take that bet for a reasonable (AKA small :lol: ) amount. . . .


woodyard may not have top size or special physical traits, but the guy is a football player, plain and simple. . . he has rare instincts, grit, and determination and competitive drive. . . dude may be small, but he's hardnosed and intense-- he fights to make plays. . . he's highly productive, has off the charts intangibles, and is an extremely reliable tackler. . . and it's not like the guy is a complete scrub in terms of his physical abilities, either-- he was the leading tackler in the SEC, not some rudy type feelgood story with no real ability. . . at the absolute least, the kid is the kind of player that can be a special teams demon and locker room leader, and he's more than worth keeping just for that. . . .

[Elevation inc]

i wonder if MCd's biggest beef was our second level more than our front maybe on tape he saw the missed tackles by the safties and the lack of discipline from winborn and webster. We did address our secondary in a big way and our LB core as well.

my guess is that with regards to our front seven MCD felt it was a poor coaching job and scheme set-up by slowik that led to less sacks and turnovers, however when he saw the second level safties mcree, and manuel backed by herza and barrett, maybe he became sick and realized the main reasons our defense started to go dwon hill actually started with our piss poor pass defense starting in the first san diego game. those issues led us to try a 3-4 to begin with and we were exposed instantly as slowik didnt have a clue what he was doing.

coaching, a better second level and a more balnced offense actually could do laot more for this team than people realize.

the front seven may not be as bad as everyone thinks. MCd did state it would be a priority before his minicamp and obviously afterwards that wasnt the case. Maybe he belives our d was becasue of other issues.


the good news is chris baker, everrette Pedeleasceaux are very good players in UDFa and we got them for dirt cheap. i wouldnt be suprised to see both very strong contributors next year

[deacon]

how much money?

i'll take that bet for a reasonable (AKA small :lol: ) amount. . . .


woodyard may not have top size or special physical traits, but the guy is a football player, plain and simple. . . he has rare instincts, grit, and determination and competitive drive. . . dude may be small, but he's hardnosed and intense-- he fights to make plays. . . he's highly productive, has off the charts intangibles, and is an extremely reliable tackler. . . and it's not like the guy is a complete scrub in terms of his physical abilities, either-- he was the leading tackler in the SEC, not some rudy type feelgood story with no real ability. . . at the absolute least, the kid is the kind of player that can be a special teams demon and locker room leader, and he's more than worth keeping just for that. . . .

Well, I'm a big spender with cash in my pocket. How about a nickle??? :)

[Fan in Exile]

I think one of the things that we're going to have to get used to as fans is not having a very strict depth chart.

I think on offense we will bounce primarily between a power game and a spread game. For instance against a team like Oakland I would guess that we're going to put a lot of passing options on the field because out side of Asumougha their secondary is pretty weak, and they don't have the best pass rush. So Scheff maybe the starting TE.

But against a team like SD who look like they'll have some more pass rushers next year or Baltimore Graham will start and I wouldn't be surprised to see Quinn on the other side.

IMO we'll see the same thing on defense as well. Dallas has a bunch of big guys on their line so I would guess Ayers will play OLB so he doesn't get tied up, and Peterson, Baker, and Field would end up on the D-line to tie them up. But against a team like Cinci, or New England I might expect him to be playing on the line so that we can bring pressure from him and two OLB, maybe Doom and Reid.

That's my two cents. FWIW

[TXBRONC]

I'm kind of bored, but this might be kind of fun. Just see what everyone thinks our depth chart will look like around the start of the season. I know it's a long ways away and there's no UDFA signed yet, but still...

QB: (3)
Orton
Simms
Brandstater

RB: (4)
Moreno
Arrington
Buckhalter
Jordan

FB: (1)
Hillis

WR: (5)
Marshall
Royal
Stokely
Gaffney
McKinley

TE: (3)
Graham
Scheffler
Quinn

LT: (2)
Clady
Polumbus

LG: (2)
Hamilton
Olsen

C: (2)
Wiegmann
Lichtensteiger

RG: (2)
Kuper
Murray

RT: (2)
Harris
Gorin

LS: (1)
Paxton


SS: (3)
Dawkins
Barrett
Bruton

FS: (2)
Hill
McBath

CB: (5)
Bailey
Goodman
Smith
Bell
J. Williams


LOLB: (3)
B. Bailey
Dumervil
Reid

ILB: (3)
DJ Williams
Davis
Larsen

ROLB: (3)
Ayers
Woodyard
Crowder

DE: (4)
Thomas
Powell
Askew
Clemons


DT: (3)
Fields
Peterson
Parker

I also think B. Schlueter will make the practice squad.

What are your thoughts and what would you change?

I think for the most part you might just be spot on.

I would however, like to see Hillis as number two running back as will as the fullback. The reason I say that is because of Hillis versatility and I think he would be terrific change of pace to Moreno. While I'm not expecting it I hope Smith is able to over take Hill and become the starter opposite Bailey.

[underrated29]

I cant do the whole thing but here are the few i can do.

RB:
moreno
Jordan
arrington
torain
bucky

DE-thomas,ayers

DT-fields,powell,peterson

ILB-dj, larsen

WOLB-doom,moss

Solb-bailey,crowder

[Italianmobstr7]

I cant do the whole thing but here are the few i can do.

RB:
moreno
Jordan
arrington
torain
bucky

DE-thomas,ayers

DT-fields,powell,peterson

ILB-dj, larsen

WOLB-doom,moss

Solb-bailey,crowder

No Woodyard? Even with the press leaks that Moss was offered up for a 7th rounder you think he'll still be here? Interesting...

[Zweems56]

No Woodyard? Even with the press leaks that Moss was offered up for a 7th rounder you think he'll still be here? Interesting...

Conflicting press release. Sirius says we offered him up for a 7th, other sources say we "received calls" on him. You think that if teams were interested enough to give a call about him, they wouldn't offer a 7th rounder? You can't offer anything less than that!

[underrated29]

No Woodyard? Even with the press leaks that Moss was offered up for a 7th rounder you think he'll still be here? Interesting...

I dont think we offered him for a 7th. Someone would have done that. Hell we took jimmy kennedy from the rams for a 7th.

Anyways- woodyard isnt the starter in my eyes. I would LOVE it if he did, but i think Larsen will beat out Andre Davis for the job. And Dj will hold of woody for the other ILB spot.

I kinda listed it funny.

Here is what i meant

starters-ILB-Dj and Larsen
Backups-ILB-woody,Davis

Wolb-start- Doom
Backup-Moss

Solb-start-baily
backup-crowder?

[silkamilkamonico]

So do we know exactly what is going to happen with Ayers? LB or DE?

JJ Arrington has much more value in McDaniels offense than both Buckhalter and Jordan.

[underrated29]

So do we know exactly what is going to happen with Ayers? LB or DE?

JJ Arrington has much more value in McDaniels offense than both Buckhalter and Jordan.



I disagree about the RB portion. I think jordan beats out arrington. But i do like arrington a lot for our system

[silkamilkamonico]

I disagree about the RB portion. I think jordan beats out arrington. But i do like arrington a lot for our system

I think Moreno has made Jordan expendable. There's still a place for Arrington.

One thing's clear with Moreno. McDaniels either doesn't want Hillis carrying the ball at all, or the signings of Buckhalter and Jordan was simply to make the RB battle more competitive, and after Moreno was drafted both of them are devalued significantly.

[Magnificent Seven]

I would like for Tom Brandstater to be our starting QB. I didn't feel good about Orton.

[underrated29]

I think its bucky. I think he gets to be the odd man out. But i also thin we will hold on to 4-5 Rb this year. Last year the pats went through 4-5 of them and we went through 6-7. So i think its safe to assume that we will hold on to a few more than normal.

[dogfish]

Well, I'm a big spender with cash in my pocket. How about a nickle??? :)


i don't think you can send that amount through paypal, and it's not worth the cost of a stamp to send a check. . . .

:lol:

make it at least twenty bucks, or else we can just call it a gentlmen's bet. . . . ;)



I think one of the things that we're going to have to get used to as fans is not having a very strict depth chart.




i think that's probably pretty accurate. . . especially on defense. . . if we run both 4-3 and 3-4, as it looks like we most likely will, i can see two almost completely separate depth charts on D. . . . fields could be the starting nose in the 30 front, and possibly not appear in the 40 fronts at all except as the one-technique in the goal line package. . . boss might play the SAM in the 4-3 and one of the nickel 'backer spots, and not be part of the 3-4 other than maybe a few sub-packages. . . . one guy that i think is interesting is woodyard-- IMO, he just might be our best 4-3 'backer other than DJ. . . if we play a significant amount of 4-3 this year, he's so productive that i'd really like to see them find a way to get him on the field-- and since his best fit by far is WILL, it would unfortunately necessitate having DJ play another spot. . . so, maybe it doesn't happen. . . although, the new coaching staff won't be bound by any promises shanahan made to DJ. . . .

so what's our best 4-3 LB alignment? and does andra davis fit into the 4-3 packages? he'd be best at MIKE, IMO. . . . do we go DJ at WILL, davis/larsen at MIKE and boss at SAM? woodyard at WILL, DJ at MIKE and boss at SAM? or piss DJ off with woodyard at WILL, davis/larsen at MIKE and DJ at SAM?

and who plays SOLB in the 3-4? do we sacrifice some pass rush and size in the run game for coverage against the TE and play boss there? or do we sacrifice coverage and/or try to shift the responsibility to a S or ILB, and play ayers there?

lots of questions, and i suspect there's going to be an awful lot of mixing and matching, especialy early on while guys learn their responsibilities, and the coaching staff tries some different things to see what works the best. . . . i wouldn't be surprised if it takes them the better part of the season to really get things hammered out, and even then there quite likely won't be a rigid depth chart. . . and most likely we'll see plenty of change on the defensive front next offseason as they continue to rebuild and bring in guys that (hopefully) fit nolan's scheme. . . .

EDIT: although i really like the prospect of an adaptable hybrid front (it's served bellyache so well over the years, and offers a ton of versatility in gameplanning against different offenses), one concern i have is DJ's ability to play multiple positions. . . he's just not a quick-twitch thinker on the field, he's always been a guy that's best when he doesn't have to think through things and can just flow to the ball. . . . we've made it tough enough for him by moving him so many times, and while at this point he at least has a grasp of all three positions in a 4-3, now we're going to ask him to learn an entire new system of terminology and another new position in a different front. . . if we ask him to play two or three different spots this year, i'm afraid we're going to completely overload the guy and see him missing an awful lot of assignments. . . maybe i'm not giving him enough credit, but take into account that he's never been the greatest getting off blocks at the LOS anyways, and i really don't think he's an especially great fit for what we want to do on defense. . . it's too bad, because he's our most purely talented 'backer, and i do think that talent will help him to compensate and play at a decent level-- but i don't think he's ever going to reach his full potential at this point. . . . we can't afford to move him right now, but in a year or two i can see him being traded. . . .

[silkamilkamonico]

I think he gets to be the odd man out. But i also thin we will hold on to 4-5 Rb this year.

I agree, especially with Hillis's ability to play both HB/FB.

[sanluis]

Ayers and Doomer are your outside backers. They will both jump around but they are going to be your pass rushing studs. Crowder, Moss are going to be backing these guys up in a rotation to keep everyone fresh unless they bulk up to 300 to take the beatings at DE in the 3-4.

Boss is a inside backer in the 3-4 IMO. When healthy he should be able to drop back into coverage and be a Donnie Edwards type of linebacker. i am not sure what you guys are going to do for the other inside backer.

Nose tackle is up for grabs IMO. Most important part of the D in the 3-4 and I am not sure WTH you guys are going to do at that spot.

Your tackles need to be 300 pound block eating studs. They cover your inside backers so they can get to the runner. You have a number of guys with that kind of size but none of them are very interesting.


i think you guys are set on offense

[silkamilkamonico]

Ayers and Doomer are your outside backers.

I don't think anyone knows what Ayers will be.

I assumed the same, and thought he would be a LB. Others have said he has stated he will add weight and play in the 5 technique, but I haven't seen any quotes.

[Italianmobstr7]

Ayers and Doomer are your outside backers. They will both jump around but they are going to be your pass rushing studs. Crowder, Moss are going to be backing these guys up in a rotation to keep everyone fresh unless they bulk up to 300 to take the beatings at DE in the 3-4.

Boss is a inside backer in the 3-4 IMO. When healthy he should be able to drop back into coverage and be a Donnie Edwards type of linebacker. i am not sure what you guys are going to do for the other inside backer.

Nose tackle is up for grabs IMO. Most impart part of the D in the 3-4 and I am not sure WTH you guys are going to do at that spot.

Your tackles need to be 300 pound block eating studs. They cover your inside backers so they can get to the runner. You have a number of guys with that kind of size but none of them are very interesting.


i think you guys are set on offense

Ever heard of DJ Williams? Also, Boss will not be an inside linebacker. That's what we got Andra Davis for.

[sanluis]

Ever heard of DJ Williams? Also, Boss will not be an inside linebacker. That's what we got Andra Davis for.

Boss can cover. He is fast enough when healthy to shoot gaps to stop the run. Davis might be a good fit, Dj, woody and Larsen all could be one of the inside backers. I think that Boss and DJ would be best at this point. So yes smart ass I have heard of DJ! :lol:


I don't think being an Outside backer in the 3-4 is the best use of Bosses talent. You can cover the TE real well with a inside backer and Boss should be able to get very deep in his drops and cause some real problems for QBs trying to read the D. Just my opinion. I have been watching a 3-4 D for a while. :D

[sanluis]

I don't think anyone knows what Ayers will be.

I assumed the same, and thought he would be a LB. Others have said he has stated he will add weight and play in the 5 technique, but I haven't seen any quotes.

I heard on ESPN that is how Ayers thinks he will be used.

I think he is going to be a big time pass rusher. He has the perfect size and speed. He looks just like a Ware or Merriman IMO.

[broncohead]

Ayers imo would be playing DE

[nevcraw]

Although I think he looks like a OLB in the 3-4 I realy don't care as long as he is effective and disruptive..

[Lonestar]

how much money?

i'll take that bet for a reasonable (AKA small :lol: ) amount. . . .


woodyard may not have top size or special physical traits, but the guy is a football player, plain and simple. . . he has rare instincts, grit, and determination and competitive drive. . . dude may be small, but he's hardnosed and intense-- he fights to make plays. . . he's highly productive, has off the charts intangibles, and is an extremely reliable tackler. . . and it's not like the guy is a complete scrub in terms of his physical abilities, either-- he was the leading tackler in the SEC, not some rudy type feelgood story with no real ability. . . at the absolute least, the kid is the kind of player that can be a special teams demon and locker room leader, and he's more than worth keeping just for that. . . .

IIRC he was the fastest LB at the combine last year..

He is a player now the only question is can we find a home for him other than Special teams.. I personally do not see him holding up for 16-18 games down the road per year.. He needs more meat on him..

[bcbronc]

I think Moreno has made Jordan expendable. There's still a place for Arrington.

One thing's clear with Moreno. McDaniels either doesn't want Hillis carrying the ball at all, or the signings of Buckhalter and Jordan was simply to make the RB battle more competitive, and after Moreno was drafted both of them are devalued significantly.

I see it the opposite: Moreno makes Arrington/Buckhalter expendable, but there's probably still a place for Jordan.

Morreno, JJ, and Buck are all similiar type backs as far as size and skill set go. Moreno is a 3 down back. the only thing the other two bring that he doesn't is experience.

Jordan, on the other hand, brings something completely different: size. he's a bit Ron Dayne-ish in how he uses his size imo, but 230lbs is 230lbs, especially when it comes with pretty good hands.

I'm pretty stoked to see what a 3-headed monster of Jordan, Hillis, and Moreno can do to opposing defenses, especially with Marshall, Royal, and Scheffler keeping the safeties out of the box.

[CoachChaz]

Ayers is very versatile. He can play DE on running downs, rush off the edge as a 3-4 LB and we could even put him on the interior line for extra pass rush up front. I think he was the most intriguing and versatile DE/LB available. I like it.

[broncohead]

I heard on ESPN that is how Ayers thinks he will be used.

I think he is going to be a big time pass rusher. He has the perfect size and speed. He looks just like a Ware or Merriman IMO.

Because he was able to dominate college OTs? The guy never showed he can be an effective pass rusher. NEVER. What makes you think he'll do better against NFL talent? I'm hopeful but I'm also realistic.

[sanluis]

Because he was able to dominate college OTs? The guy never showed he can be an effective pass rusher. NEVER. What makes you think he'll do better against NFL talent? I'm hopeful but I'm also realistic.

Well.... as a rival fan I hope you are right. We will have to wait and see but I think he has the tools, the motor and the system w/ 3-4 D to be successful.

He can't do this by himself, he will need good DE play to be great. Merriman had Igor and Luis to eat up blockers and leave him one on one with the back or TE. Now I can see if Ayers gets good DE play he will be able eat up a running back or a TE that tries to block him. And if Ayers is team blocked then Doomer will be singled up and we already know he can beat a running back or a TE without much difficulty.

Ayers is an really good pick IMO if Denver plays the 3-4. We will have to wait and see to be sure but I like the pick if I am a Bronco fan. :eek:

[broncohead]

Well.... as a rival fan I hope you are right. We will have to wait and see but I think he has the tools, the motor and the system w/ 3-4 D to be successful.

He can't do this by himself, he will need good DE play to be great. Merriman had Igor and Luis to eat up blockers and leave him one on one with the back or TE. Now I can see if Ayers gets good DE play he will be able eat up a running back or a TE that tries to block him. And if Ayers is team blocked then Doomer will be singled up and we already know he can beat a running back or a TE without much difficulty.

Ayers is an really good pick IMO if Denver plays the 3-4. We will have to wait and see to be sure but I like the pick if I am a Bronco fan. :eek:

He's also really slow for a rushing OLB. 4.9 40 when most 3-4 OLB run in the 4.6-4.7 range.

[dogfish]

Ayers is very versatile. He can play DE on running downs, rush off the edge as a 3-4 LB and we could even put him on the interior line for extra pass rush up front. I think he was the most intriguing and versatile DE/LB available. I like it.

good pick, for sure. . . .

i'm curious to see if he's going to play at the same weight he did in college. . . .

[sanluis]

He's also really slow for a rushing OLB. 4.9 40 when most 3-4 OLB run in the 4.6-4.7 range.

Sure, but I bet he would be well within that range if dropped a little weight and stopped trying to be a 4-3 DE and just concentrated on being a outside backer in Denver's 3-4.

[dogfish]

He's also really slow for a rushing OLB. 4.9 40 when most 3-4 OLB run in the 4.6-4.7 range.


"I'll worry about his 40 time when they start lining quarterbacks up 40 yards from under center."

- Brian Billick

[Ravage!!!]

"I'll worry about his 40 time when they start lining quarterbacks up 40 yards from under center."

- Brian Billick

I think the 40 time is the MOST over-rated statistic every used to evaluate a player. That goes for all positions (I know I know, don't anyone let Al Davis know)....

Barry Sanders, considered by most of the young posters to be the best RB to play, was OFTEN caught from behind. He wasn't known to outrun the defense in a footrace from A to B.... but the boy could sure flat out play without the flat-out speed.

[sanluis]

"I'll worry about his 40 time when they start lining quarterbacks up 40 yards from under center."

- Brian Billick


LOL!! How you doing Dog!!!

I think Denver had a solid draft. I would be a little bummed about giving up that 1st round pick next year for the corner you guys drafted. Still, a solid draft.

What do you think of the rest of the AFCW's west draft?

[topscribe]

I think they will move LaMont Jordan to the fullback position and be backup for Peyton Hillis.

Shades of Mike Anderson. What a waste of running talent that will be with either Hillis or Jordan!

Didn't you both forget about Andrew Pinnock?

-----

[topscribe]

IIRC he was the fastest LB at the combine last year..

He is a player now the only question is can we find a home for him other than Special teams.. I personally do not see him holding up for 16-18 games down the road per year.. He needs more meat on him..

As Shanny noted Woodyard is faster than most strong safeties.

-----

[broncohead]

I think the 40 time is the MOST over-rated statistic every used to evaluate a player. That goes for all positions (I know I know, don't anyone let Al Davis know)....

Barry Sanders, considered by most of the young posters to be the best RB to play, was OFTEN caught from behind. He wasn't known to outrun the defense in a footrace from A to B.... but the boy could sure flat out play without the flat-out speed.

We should just line him up against WRs. Also Sanders was not often caught from behind. He would pull away like the defenders where jogging.

[broncohead]

"I'll worry about his 40 time when they start lining quarterbacks up 40 yards from under center."

- Brian Billick

A 40 time has a lot to do with explosion. Not many people can reach top speed in 40 yards. Some of the better pass rushers in the league run around 4.6 not 4.9. Also Ayers has as many sacks as most of the elite rushers have in one season.

[topscribe]

"I'll worry about his 40 time when they start lining quarterbacks up 40 yards from under center."

- Brian Billick


I think the 40 time is the MOST over-rated statistic every used to evaluate a player. That goes for all positions (I know I know, don't anyone let Al Davis know)....

Barry Sanders, considered by most of the young posters to be the best RB to play, was OFTEN caught from behind. He wasn't known to outrun the defense in a footrace from A to B.... but the boy could sure flat out play without the flat-out speed.

QFT

Bobby Turner said he paid little attention to 40 times, even for RBs. He said
a 40-yard run for a RB is a relatively rare event, and that he is concerned
more about the players "burst," or his explosion, i.e., his first 10 yards.

You mentioned Sanders, and we also have TD for that example, and even
Mike Anderson, who was very successful for the Broncos. You don't have to
be very fast to outrun a guy you've left sprawling on the ground after trying
to tackle you.

Okay . . . bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

We should just line him up against WRs. Also Sanders was not often caught from behind. He would pull away like the defenders where jogging.

I was a huge Sanders fan, but thats not true. I was watching him play against the local college here back when he was a stud for OSU... he would NOT pull away from defenders like they were jogging. He would OFTEN get caught from behind when going down the sidelines, because he was not the fastest on the field.

[Ravage!!!]

We should just line him up against WRs. Also Sanders was not often caught from behind. He would pull away like the defenders where jogging.

what does saying that speed doesn't determine how good he is have anything to do with saying he's fast enough to line up against WRs? Speed isn't the most important stat to make up a football player. We all know the purpose of timing the draft, but the DE that had the video of jumping out of the pool was more impressive to me than any 40 time. THAT shows explosion.

[broncohead]

what does saying that speed doesn't determine how good he is have anything to do with saying he's fast enough to line up against WRs? Speed isn't the most important stat to make up a football player. We all know the purpose of timing the draft, but the DE that had the video of jumping out of the pool was more impressive to me than any 40 time. THAT shows explosion.

Well who cares about 40 times when your in the front 7. Basically I was using it as a point that he hasn't shown any signs that he'll be able to rush the passer from the outside. He hasn't shown the explosion that is needed for a pass rusher. I can names handful of players that have twice as many sacks+ hurries in his senior season. I see him as a DE in the 3-4 until he shows he can put pressure from the edge.

[getlynched47]

what does saying that speed doesn't determine how good he is have anything to do with saying he's fast enough to line up against WRs? Speed isn't the most important stat to make up a football player. We all know the purpose of timing the draft, but the DE that had the video of jumping out of the pool was more impressive to me than any 40 time. THAT shows explosion.

Yeah. And a youtube video is what NFL scouts use to evaluate players. I guess that's why Jarron Gilbert went in the 1st round.......oh wait....he didn't :coffee:

[broncohead]

I was a huge Sanders fan, but thats not true. I was watching him play against the local college here back when he was a stud for OSU... he would NOT pull away from defenders like they were jogging. He would OFTEN get caught from behind when going down the sidelines, because he was not the fastest on the field.

I remember when he was with the Lions once he had the sideline or had a step on any player he pulled away and wasn't caught. I looked up some YouTube videos and he clearly outruns everyone on the field.

[dogfish]

A 40 time has a lot to do with explosion. Not many people can reach top speed in 40 yards. Some of the better pass rushers in the league run around 4.6 not 4.9. Also Ayers has as many sacks as most of the elite rushers have in one season.

wrong. . . 40 times aren't the best measure of explosion. . . the 40 is used to measure long speed and whether a guy has a second gear in the open field-- the 10 yard dash and short shuttle are better gauges of explosion, and the 3-cone drill is the most accurate measure of all for the explosiveness that pass rushers need because it measures how quickly guys can change direction and re-accelerate. . . it's very similar to a pass rusher bending off the edge after getting past the OT. . .

these are the 10-yard times for the top DE/OLBs:

ayers - 1.62
orakpo 1.56
brown 1.59
maybin - 1.57
matthews - 1.49
barwin - 1.53
english - 1.61
sintim - 1.56

3-cone times:

ayers - 7.56
orakpo - did not run
brown - 7.55
maybin - 7.52
matthews - 6.90
barwin - 6.87
english - 7.26
sintim - 7.37

ayers' times are comparable to the other top edge rusher prospects-- a few of them were faster in the 3-cone, but you also have to take into account that ayers ran at 15-20 pounds heavier than the rest of them (30 pounds heavier than clay matthews). . . his short area quickness may not be elite, but it's more than adequate. . .

and ayers is a little bit different player than the rest, given his frame-- he has versatility that the other players simply don't offer, and even if he doesn't prove to be quite as effective a pass rusher (which has very much yet to be determined), he has the pure size to be the best run defender of the bunch. . . his sack totals weren't that impressive on a team that played from behind a fair bit and didn't offer as many opportunities to pin back his ears and rush the passer, but he consistently played on the other side of the line of scrimmage and was very disruptive. . . mayock says the guy constantly flashed on tape, and that's a very encouraging testimonial-- to me, the opinion of a top pro is worth more than what we can glean from raw stats. . .

from PFW's scouting report:


Naturally athletic with natural raw strength to rush with power. Showed well against top competition-- gave Alabama OT Andre Smith fits and got the better of Mississippi OT Michael Oher in one-on-one drills at the Senior Bowl. Good short-area quickness and agility.

is he AS dynamic a pure speed rusher as a guy like maybin? no. . . but he can also do things that maybin can't, like play with his hand in the dirt and set the edge against the running game-- maybin frequently got washed by inferior college OTs, and will be strictly limited to the 3-4 WOLB or the 4-3 nine-technique in the pro's. . . and even there he's probably going to be a serious liability against the run. . . and undersized guys like maybin will always have to win solely with speed. . . ayers does need some work in the weight room to improve his upper body strength (he didn't bench well at the combine), but scouts say he displays good functional strength and lower body drive-- he should develop an effective bull rush along with the rest of his arsenal. . .

he's a guy that can do a lot of different things, which makes him very valuable for a team that wants to play a hybrid front. . . he's quick enough to play the wide nine in a pinch, looks like a natural 4-3 left end with pass rush ability, he can slide inside to rush the passer from the three-technique in nickel and dime packages, and he can line up as a 3-4 OLB and has the size to deal with the TE in the running game as well as rushing the passer off the edge. . . or he can beef up and go to the five-technique full time. . .

you also say that "Some of the better pass rushers in the league run around 4.6 not 4.9". . . . and some of them didn't. . . . osi umenyiora ran a 4.78. . . julius peppers ran a 4.74. . . aaron schobel and kyle vanden bosch both ran 4.75. . . derrick burgess ran a 4.92. . . . shaun phillips ran a 4.78. . . justin tuck ran a 4.73. . . . lamarr woodley ran a 4.74. . . . and the same site that those times came from listed ayers as a 4.77-- PFW lists him as 4.82, so i'm not sure where you got the 4.9 from. . . .

in any case, running a 4.6 in the 40 is no guarantee of pass rushing success in the NFL. . . .

[TXBRONC]

I thought Mike Mayock said at the Combine that a guys vertical leap tells you what kind of explosion a player has?

[Ravage!!!]

I thought Mike Mayock said at the Combine that a guys vertical leap tells you what kind of explosion a player has?

like jumping straight out of a pool?

[Ravage!!!]

I remember when he was with the Lions once he had the sideline or had a step on any player he pulled away and wasn't caught. I looked up some YouTube videos and he clearly outruns everyone on the field.

He was always with the lions...

if you want to see that he gets caught from behind often, you actually have to watch more games than the 'highlight' reels.....

[dogfish]

LOL!! How you doing Dog!!!

I think Denver had a solid draft. I would be a little bummed about giving up that 1st round pick next year for the corner you guys drafted. Still, a solid draft.

What do you think of the rest of the AFCW's west draft?

not too bad, man-- not thrilled about a few of our draft decisions, but i love the top two picks-- hopefully things will work out. . .

how you been?

i hated seeing you guys get english, i really like him a lot. . . he's a high motor, relentless guy-- durability is a concern, though. . . you think they might not be planning to re-sign merriman?

you added some solid depth on the OL. . . . martin's an intresting prospect just based on his numbers, but he's pretty much an unknown. . . i thought you could've found a better back than gartrell johnson, but i'm glad you didn't. . . . :lol: byrd is a long term project after the accident, but he could eventually be a very good value. . .

i hate seeing the chefs land tjax, but the rest of their draft wasn't exactly awe-inspiring. . . and the fade. . . well. . . . what can i say? classic al davis draft-- those guys are just comedy relief. . . . :lol:

[broncohead]

dogfish great post. First I didn't say the 40 time was the "best way" to messure explosion. And I had posted (67) that on the front 7 top speed really doesn't matter. Fact is he hasn't shown he can get after the QB weather it pressure or sacks. You can't really expect someone to do something in the pros that they couldnt do in college.