So what does Day 1 of Draft tells us about the team?

[elsid13]

Based upon Free Agency and Day 1 of the Draft, what do you think this tells us about the Broncos going into next season?

My thoughts

1. That Doom, Moss, Crowder aren't quickly grasping the rush LB position and Ayers was brought in to learn that position and take over. Wonder if there is trade for Doom in the future

2. That we will playing more power football then the spread football. See the selection of Quinn.

3. That Nolan and rest of the defense staff is happier with what we have on the defense line then the fans.

4. That Jack MF Williams won't make the team and Bell is also life support

5. Barrett needs to step up or he is out of here too

6. Even with 3 FA brought at running back, McDaniels and Turner wanted a better more constant running attack.

7. That the ILBs are sent with DJ, Davis, Larson and Woodyard.

8. That Boss is going to make the team as one of the outside LB.

9. That Kory Lichtensteiger is set as Hamilton's heir at OG, but we are in need of youth at the Center position

[BigDaddyBronco]

We might be running more 4-3 than 3-4.

[Superchop 7]

That our new coach apparently has never watched them play.

I have.

[broncofaninfla]

We did little to address our biggest weakness and that was on the DL. Our coaching staff is putting too much faith in the powder puffs who failed misearbly last year.

[Northman]

We did little to address our biggest weakness and that was on the DL. Our coaching staff is putting too much faith in the powder puffs who failed misearbly last year.


Basically what he said.

[BroncoSojia]

That our FO doesn't know how to run a team

[broken12]

that they werent happy with the 3 aquisitions they made for the defensive backfield to go and use up 2 draft picks on day one for some more defenseive backs we gonna be running more dime packages than anyone in nfl....and that they arent to happy with the 3 aquisitinos they made on rb this offseason to go and use the 12 pick in the draft to bring in another rb...although better but wasted money in free agency

[Joel]

Based upon Free Agency and Day 1 of the Draft, what do you think this tells us about the Broncos going into next season?

My thoughts

1. That Doom, Moss, Crowder aren't quickly grasping the rush LB position and Ayers was brought in to learn that position and take over. Wonder if there is trade for Doom in the future
I think that would be unfortunate, because he seems like a good OLB, something critical to any 3-4. On the other hand, the way things have gone to this point, I wouldn't be surprised. Presumably B-Marsh and Clady are next on the block; the only way McDaniels can make it truly "his" team is to get rid of everyone Shanny acquired who has any talent at all. :rolleyes: I'd trade Crowder before Doom, and Moss before either (if you can find a taker.) I'm not sure where Jarvis Moss would fit in a Denver 4-3 and, frankly, while I haven't had a chance to see him play much, I've not even heard rumors of anything to justify all we gave up to get him as our top pick two years ago.


2. That we will playing more power football then the spread football. See the selection of Quinn.
That would be fine if we had the D for it, but to play ball control you have to be able to stop the run and force passes as well as run yourself. Otherwise your stud runningback spends a lot of time on the bench helplessly watching his team get beaten. And nothing I've seen in this draft will have much impact on teams runing up the gut at will against us.

3. That Nolan and rest of the defense staff is happier with what we have on the defense line then the fans.
The numbers don't lie; if they want to send a message to the fans they should hold a press conference.

4. That Jack MF Williams won't make the team and Bell is also life support
Actually, if I was gonna draft a back it would be someone with the pass blocking, receiving and pile moving abilities Moreno is supposed to have, and that we've sorely lacked in recent years. But overhauling your transmission when your engine block melts won't really help much.


5. Barrett needs to step up or he is out of here too
Main thing I'm seeing is that letting Dominique Foxworth get away was a big mistake. I remember saying last off season that we needed him as Bly and Bailey aged and being told Champ and Bly had us set for years; what happened...?

6. Even with 3 FA brought at running back, McDaniels and Turner wanted a better more constant running attack.
The other guys look like stopgaps, whereas Moreno looks like he could be the future.

7. That the ILBs are sent with DJ, Davis, Larson and Woodyard.
The first and last seem like natural choices at ILB, where DJs size is less of a detriment and his pass coverage is more of an asset. Basically, all the things that make him better suited for Will than any other 4-3 spot argue for him at ILB in a 3-4.

8. That Boss is going to make the team as one of the outside LB.
A good Mike is a natural OLB choice in a 3-4. Note the first three words.... ;)

9. That Kory Lichtensteiger is set as Hamilton's heir at OG, but we are in need of youth at the Center position
Looks that way.

[2Fity@The303]

That we were able to get the players that were high on our draft board. Smith and Quinn were reactionary trade up's to insure that we got them and somebody else did not...
Moreno and McBath would of been gone a few picks later if we would not of took them were we did.

Like the poster said above, the 4-3 seems to be the "base" defense coming out in 09?

[underrated29]

I think they got a litte ansy for quinn. He would have fallen to our 3rd i really believe. I understand he might be an elite blocking TE, but he only has 12 catches and usually a 12 catch TE doesnt get picked in the 2nd.

I think had we waited until our 3rd he would have been there. But whatever, we now have two 4ths.

And the 4th rd is our "GOLDEN" round. So lets see what superstars we can select.

[BroncoJoe]

I think they got a litte ansy for quinn. He would have fallen to our 3rd i really believe. I understand he might be an elite blocking TE, but he only has 12 catches and usually a 12 catch TE doesnt get picked in the 2nd.

I think had we waited until our 3rd he would have been there. But whatever, we now have two 4ths.

And the 4th rd is our "GOLDEN" round. So lets see what superstars we can select.

Perhaps people should think of him as another OL, not a TE.

[Tned]

Nobody will know until training camp starts, but right now I expect Ayers to be a DE, not OLB. They talked about putting 20lbs on him, and I think that is for him to play on the line, with Doom ideally being one OLB, and then Bailey, Moss, Crowder or reid at the other OLB spot.

The reason I couldn't see people calling for Rey, is that other than the O-line, I think MLB was our lowest need position.

[Tned]

Also, Reid is one of the candidates to play end in the 3-4.

[topscribe]

Actually, the draft so far seems to show to me more faith in Dumervil, Moss,
and company than I expected. From what I read elsewhere, Ayers may be
expected to pump up to about 290 to play DE. That is not where they have
these guys projected.

The selections in the defensive backfield do not reflect on Williams and Barrett,
IMO. Every starter there is getting a bit long in tooth, and the Broncos need
more than what they have behind those guys.

My only real question is with Quinn, but I guess they had spent a lot of time
studying him, having had him in for a workout and paid special attention to
him at the Combine, according to McDaniels. So they must see something in
him that I, sitting on the outside, cannot.

I was quite surprised by the selections but not necessarily disappointed. It
will be a while before how good or bad this first day was, but they did, at
least on the surface, fill some needs.

-----

[LRtagger]

Doom is going to play one OLB and Ayers will play the other side.

[jlarsiii]

I think having slept on our picks for one night has calmed me down somewhat. Everybody knows that we could not address all of our team needs with one draft, but maybe we were kidding ourselves with what we thought were our actual team needs that could be addressed in this draft.

Our first round picks are solid. The second round left me scratching my head a little bit, but I feel better about the picks now.

I guess the bottom line is that our FO was not as impressed with the defensive line prospects as we all were. TJax and Raji were long gone by our first pick, and evidently Orakpo does not fit what we are going to try and do on the line. We got Ayers and there really weren't any other elite d-line prospects to go after at that point in time. Maybe none of those other potential d-line prospects were any better then what we have now.

The more I think about it the more I am okay with what we have chosen so far. I just hope they all pan out or McCoach will get crucified by the fans for giving up the draft picks he did.

[Tned]

Doom is going to play one OLB and Ayers will play the other side.

We'll see. He could very well play end.

[Northman]

We'll see. He could very well play end.

I seriously hope so. We got LB's coming out our ass right now.

[claymore]

I hope Jarvis Moss takes steroids in the offseason to free up ayers.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I'm sure Ayers can play a lot of positions in the 3-4; hence why we drafted him. *cough cough up a lung*

[jlarsiii]

I'm sure Ayers can play a lot of positions in the 3-4; hence why we drafted him. *cough cough up a lung*

There sure seems to be a lot of positive press that Ayers can be a solid player for us. I hope it comes true.

[Joel]

Nobody will know until training camp starts, but right now I expect Ayers to be a DE, not OLB. They talked about putting 20lbs on him, and I think that is for him to play on the line, with Doom ideally being one OLB, and then Bailey, Moss, Crowder or reid at the other OLB spot.

The reason I couldn't see people calling for Rey, is that other than the O-line, I think MLB was our lowest need position.
Are our MLBs that good? If so I've really been out of it. I suppose it matter less if we go to a 3-4, but then the question is "are our OLBs that good?" and we'll need twice as many. I'm out of touch, but would figure on Doom, Crowder, Boss and TBD, which makes Ayers look good. With some here already questioning his speed as a blitzer a 290 lb. OLB does seem like he'd be a bit slow.

Moss missed his first year and I missed most of his second; is he actually producing the way you'd want in a 3-4 OLB? Is he still 250? Because I'd really like a little more mass for run stopping in either a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB.

[Hobe]

I just can't get the thought out of my head that trading a 1ST round pick next year for a 2ND round pick this year is an act of desperation on the part of the front office.

The only other line of logic I can imagine is that they think they are on good corner away from being a very competitive team, like Super Bowl competitive. I think thats dilusional.

[dogfish]

that our FO pisses their pants when our pick's coming up, and they're perfectly content to burn valuable draft picks. . . .

[atwater27]

Yesterday confirmed to me that McCoach is definitely a rookie. And that we are for some reason completely rebuilding our offense when we should be completely rebuilding the defense. And when I say completely rebuilding the defense, I mean don't start with the corners dumbass.

[Tned]

Are our MLBs that good? If so I've really been out of it. I suppose it matter less if we go to a 3-4, but then the question is "are our OLBs that good?" and we'll need twice as many. I'm out of touch, but would figure on Doom, Crowder, Boss and TBD, which makes Ayers look good. With some here already questioning his speed as a blitzer a 290 lb. OLB does seem like he'd be a bit slow.

Moss missed his first year and I missed most of his second; is he actually producing the way you'd want in a 3-4 OLB? Is he still 250? Because I'd really like a little more mass for run stopping in either a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB.

You have DJ Williams and Andre Davis (free agent from Cleveland) slated to play the middle linebacker slots. Davis isn't a superstar, but has been a starter in Cleveland for several years at MLB. DJ is a playmaker. Then we have Larsen and some others, even Bailey if healthy, that can also play inside.

Outside is a bigger question mark. Except maybe Boss, again if healthy, most of our OLB prospects are our smaller ends that have to convert to OLB. Then again, that's what we would have been picking in the draft, in someone like Orakpo.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm not really seeing Boss to be an OLB in a 3-4.... and as you said ... if he's even healthy

[EastCoastBronco]

I turned on the NFL Network yesterday long enough to see that we had blown our first round pick on a freaking back. Then I promptly turned off the television and poured myself a stiff shot of Crown Royal...
All I can say is...Here we go again...

[Joel]

You have DJ Williams and Andre Davis (free agent from Cleveland) slated to play the middle linebacker slots. Davis isn't a superstar, but has been a starter in Cleveland for several years at MLB. DJ is a playmaker. Then we have Larsen and some others, even Bailey if healthy, that can also play inside.
I expect a lot from my MLB, and haven't been seeing it recently. I look at it much as I do the 3-4 NT slot: You almost need to have two starting quality players because you can't afford to have a scrub sub for your starter if he's injured or tiring (as Baileys injury last year demonstrated.) Again, if we go 3-4 the ILB situation obviously changes a bit; the emphasis shifts to the OLB and you can have less versatile ILBs who do more coverage and are secondary run stuffers and blitzers.

Outside is a bigger question mark. Except maybe Boss, again if healthy, most of our OLB prospects are our smaller ends that have to convert to OLB. Then again, that's what we would have been picking in the draft, in someone like Orakpo.
I do always say I expect a good MLB to be able to play OLBs, but Boss is listed at 232, and I just don't see that working as a 3-4 OLB. Offensive tackles will have 50 lbs. or more on him, and many backs will outweigh him, too. The 3-4 OLB spot is about as demanding as the MLB spot (was that a factor in Boss' injury plagued season last year...?) so like I say, the problem I perceive doesn't go away if we switch--it gets worse. Our smaller ends may be able to pass rush and run stuff, but that doesn't mean they can cover. I'm confident in Doom for that, since we're talking mostly about checkdown receivers, TEs and backs, but less confident Crowder has the speed, and if Moss had the size and durability to play the run I think he'd be starting at DE now.

Really, I see the same problem going from a 4-3 to a 3-4 that have had people here naysaying it all along: The 4-3 doesn't demand the NTs and OLBs essential to the 3-4, and consequently existing 3-4 teams spend more to snatch those players up before 4-3 teams can, meaning we don't have them. And it's not like you can just trade with the teams that do; they don't want 4-3 players; maybe a finesse DT they can move to DE or a fast DE who can cover to move to OLB--but you'll want to hold on to players like that for the same reasons (how 'bout Marcus Thomas at DE in a 3-4...?)

[topscribe]

I expect a lot from my MLB, and haven't been seeing it recently. I look at it much as I do the 3-4 NT slot: You almost need to have two starting quality players because you can't afford to have a scrub sub for your starter if he's injured or tiring (as Baileys injury last year demonstrated.) Again, if we go 3-4 the ILB situation obviously changes a bit; the emphasis shifts to the OLB and you can have less versatile ILBs who do more coverage and are secondary run stuffers and blitzers.

I do always say I expect a good MLB to be able to play OLBs, but Boss is listed at 232, and I just don't see that working as a 3-4 OLB. Offensive tackles will have 50 lbs. or more on him, and many backs will outweigh him, too. The 3-4 OLB spot is about as demanding as the MLB spot (was that a factor in Boss' injury plagued season last year...?) so like I say, the problem I perceive doesn't go away if we switch--it gets worse. Our smaller ends may be able to pass rush and run stuff, but that doesn't mean they can cover. I'm confident in Doom for that, since we're talking mostly about checkdown receivers, TEs and backs, but less confident Crowder has the speed, and if Moss had the size and durability to play the run I think he'd be starting at DE now.

Really, I see the same problem going from a 4-3 to a 3-4 that have had people here naysaying it all along: The 4-3 doesn't demand the NTs and OLBs essential to the 3-4, and consequently existing 3-4 teams spend more to snatch those players up before 4-3 teams can, meaning we don't have them. And it's not like you can just trade with the teams that do; they don't want 4-3 players; maybe a finesse DT they can move to DE or a fast DE who can cover to move to OLB--but you'll want to hold on to players like that for the same reasons (how 'bout Marcus Thomas at DE in a 3-4...?)

I may be wrong, but I believe the Broncos are fairly well stocked at MLB. D.J.
may slide over to ILB, which may suit his skill set better than anything else
he has played since he has terrific speed and he doesn't tend to overrun plays.
Larsen looks to me to be a natural ILB, and Davis is familiar with the 3-4 and,
as a veteran, can provide the leadership to help train the others. Some
people seem to have reservations about Woodyard, given his relative size,
but I remember how another undersized ILB, Joe Rizzo, excelled for the
Broncos, and Woodyard can flat fly.

So I think we're probably okay at that position.

-----

[Dean]

This year's draft tells me that the front office has no sense of value for draft picks. At the present the draft looks like a series of reaches and unnecessary moves upward.

Just wondering if anyone else thinks that the receiver we drafted is an attempt to get rid of "the slot machine" (Brandan Stokley)? He sided with Cutler in an interview. Will he be gone?

[Tned]

I expect a lot from my MLB, and haven't been seeing it recently. I look at it much as I do the 3-4 NT slot: You almost need to have two starting quality players because you can't afford to have a scrub sub for your starter if he's injured or tiring (as Baileys injury last year demonstrated.) Again, if we go 3-4 the ILB situation obviously changes a bit; the emphasis shifts to the OLB and you can have less versatile ILBs who do more coverage and are secondary run stuffers and blitzers.


Andra Davis is a starting MLB in a 3-4. DJ Williams is a playmaker that has played MLB, SLB and WLB. Both Davis and Williams have had 140+ tackle seasons. Granted, that often indicates a crap D-line when tackles are that high, but it also means they are cleaning up the mess of the line.

ILB shouldn't be an issue. How well our small DE's transfer to OLB is the real question.