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View Full Version : Missed Trade Deadline Opportunity



eessydo
10-21-2007, 07:23 PM
So now that the trade deadline has come and gone, I am sitting here wondering, "Why didn't we make a play for Jason Taylor down in Miami?".

I am pretty sure that guy wants out of that bleak situation in Miami, and I am sure he would LOVE to follow Jim Bates over to the Broncos. He thrived underneath Bates' defense in Miami, and we could have probably thrown Patrick Ramsey at them along with another high pick and possibly pulled off the deal.

Miami's defense was ripe for the picking, a proud bunch underneath a new regime looking to the past for answers. The connection is there, why not make an effort prior to the deadline?

Just an idea................

Requiem / The Dagda
10-21-2007, 07:24 PM
Jason Taylor never asked to be traded, that's why.

Stargazer
10-21-2007, 09:47 PM
He's old. Glad a trade wasn't made.

dogfish
10-21-2007, 11:00 PM
why, so we could give up a first day draft pick for a guy with all of about one year left? a guy who doesn't even play the run well? yea, let's continue to mortgage our future by giving up draft picks for aging vets with big contracts. . .


seriously, the last thing this team needs is more band-aids. . . they need to make smart draft picks and develop guys who can contribute long-term without immediately breaking the bank. . .

Lonestar
10-22-2007, 11:38 AM
it is not the DE position that ails this team. It is DT, massive NT types that clog and eat up blockers.

eessydo
10-22-2007, 12:11 PM
why, so we could give up a first day draft pick for a guy with all of about one year left? a guy who doesn't even play the run well? yea, let's continue to mortgage our future by giving up draft picks for aging vets with big contracts. . .

First of all, what are all of you talking about??? Jason Taylor is not a band aid, he is proven and consistent. Read the stat lines on Taylor of the last 5 years.

| Year TM | G | Tkl Ast Sack INT PD FF FR

| 2002 mia | 16 | 46 22 17.0 0 0 0 2 |
| 2003 mia | 15 | 37 21 12.5 0 3 3 2 |
| 2004 mia | 15 | 41 27 9.5 1 11 2 2 |
| 2005 mia | 16 | 52 21 12.0 0 10 4 2 |
| 2006 mia | 16 | 41 21 13.5 2 11 9 2 |
+----------+-----+-----------------------------------+
| TOTAL* | 78 | 217 112 64.5 3 35 18 10 |
+----------+-----+-----------------------------------+


YTD he has the following:

| Year TM | G | Tkl Ast Sack INT PD FF FR

| 2007 mia | 7 | 21 5 4.0 1 n/a n/a n/a |

What do you see?

Well first I see a guy who has not had a major injury. Then I see a guy who is still a super star, 13.5 sacks last year with limited blitz packages. Better than anything Denver has put on the field in the past 5 years. Last but not least a Jim Bates player, we could stand a couple of Bates vets with some gas still in the tank to mentor our younger players.

Go look at our DE's and show me which one is putting up the statistics that Jason Taylor is putting up. The only one close is Dumervil, outpacing Taylors sack total by two but behind in tackles. Doesn't defend the run well??? Looks fine to me, AND they run away from Taylor most of the time.

You are all crazy and jaded because of the lack of production from the Simeon Rice acquisition. Rice is a retread with his best years behind him, Taylor is still a superstar, even on once proud but now maligned defense.

As far as contracts are concerned, there are a thousand ways to skin a cat. You can get creative enough to lower the blow from the salary cap, look at what San Diego has done, so that type of thing does not really scare me off. Not too mention this guy wants a superbowl, not money. Look at Moss, you tell me that guy is in it for the money? At some point winning is everything and we had an inside shot at this deal with Bates' relationship with Taylor.

Last, the comment about him not asking to be traded, well we all know what Peter King discussed with Taylor


Peter King devoted a lengthy report to the Dolphins on HBO's Inside the NFL tonight. The long-time NFL reporter spoke about how Randy Mueller and Cam Cameron realized after the latest loss that they needed to start accumulating picks for veterans, and looking toward 2008.

King also said that he spoke to Jason Taylor, who reportedly remarked that "everybody in this building is afraid of the R word. We're a rebuilding franchise."

King said that he asked Taylor if he would have liked to have been sent away, rather than Chris Chambers. According to King, Taylor said, "Peter, you're putting me in a tough spot here," alluding to all that he owed this organization and this area.

King, however, closed his report on Taylor by relaying his own conclusion: "Clearly, Jason Taylor thinks not only would it be in the team's best interests, but also in his best interests" to be traded in the offseason.

You are all smoking crack.

Requiem / The Dagda
10-22-2007, 01:08 PM
Considering Taylor came out the other day and said he didn't want to be traded, I'll take it from him.

dogfish
10-22-2007, 02:02 PM
yes, taylor would be a band-aid! i never called him a retread, and i realize that he's still playing at a high level-- i also know that he's 33 years old. . . seriously, how much longer do you think he can play at the level he's at now? any player that's a one or two year solution at best is a band-aid. . . and what do you think the 'phins would have wanted for the reigning defensive player of the year IF they had even wanted to trade him? you don't get a guy like that for a 4th or 5th round pick. . .

and that's my point that you didn't address. . . we trade a first day pick for a guy like taylor, we probably get a year or two out of him, instead of the 3-4 years minimum that you get out of a draft pick (and the potential for twice that). . . and you get it at a rookie salary. . . dumervil is giving us just as much production as taylor is giving miami, and he's doing it at a fraction of the cost-- AND he still has a ton of upside. . . if taylor came here, jarvis moss would end up spending most of his time sitting on the bench, and that's not what we got him for. . . we've FINALLY taken the intelligent step of investing some picks in our defensive line-- the next logical step is to develop that talent, not spend a bunch of resources to bring in an aging star at the same position. . .


as for your comment about smoking crack. . . that's the lamest, most overused jab on the internet. . . if you really want to roll that way people here are capable, but it would be cooler to just have a semi-civil discussion. . .

Lonestar
10-22-2007, 03:29 PM
First of all, what are all of you talking about??? Jason Taylor is not a band aid, he is proven and consistent. Read the stat lines on Taylor of the last 5 years.

| Year TM | G | Tkl Ast Sack INT PD FF FR

| 2002 mia | 16 | 46 22 17.0 0 0 0 2 |
| 2003 mia | 15 | 37 21 12.5 0 3 3 2 |
| 2004 mia | 15 | 41 27 9.5 1 11 2 2 |
| 2005 mia | 16 | 52 21 12.0 0 10 4 2 |
| 2006 mia | 16 | 41 21 13.5 2 11 9 2 |
+----------+-----+-----------------------------------+
| TOTAL* | 78 | 217 112 64.5 3 35 18 10 |
+----------+-----+-----------------------------------+


YTD he has the following:

| Year TM | G | Tkl Ast Sack INT PD FF FR

| 2007 mia | 7 | 21 5 4.0 1 n/a n/a n/a |

What do you see?

Well first I see a guy who has not had a major injury. Then I see a guy who is still a super star, 13.5 sacks last year with limited blitz packages. Better than anything Denver has put on the field in the past 5 years. Last but not least a Jim Bates player, we could stand a couple of Bates vets with some gas still in the tank to mentor our younger players.

Go look at our DE's and show me which one is putting up the statistics that Jason Taylor is putting up. The only one close is Dumervil, outpacing Taylors sack total by two but behind in tackles. Doesn't defend the run well??? Looks fine to me, AND they run away from Taylor most of the time.

You are all crazy and jaded because of the lack of production from the Simeon Rice acquisition. Rice is a retread with his best years behind him, Taylor is still a superstar, even on once proud but now maligned defense.

As far as contracts are concerned, there are a thousand ways to skin a cat. You can get creative enough to lower the blow from the salary cap, look at what San Diego has done, so that type of thing does not really scare me off. Not too mention this guy wants a superbowl, not money. Look at Moss, you tell me that guy is in it for the money? At some point winning is everything and we had an inside shot at this deal with Bates' relationship with Taylor.

Last, the comment about him not asking to be traded, well we all know what Peter King discussed with Taylor



You are all smoking crack.

Show me how many of ours that have played with a stellar DT for more than a few games part time.

If you are being double teamed it is hard to make sacks.

If you are one on one chances are you can make some pressure/sacks.

DenBronx
10-22-2007, 03:42 PM
You are all smoking crack.

that was a pretty dumb thing to say.

we already have one band aid....why add 2 for one sore?

eessydo
10-22-2007, 04:15 PM
Didn't see very many double teams on the outside all night against pittsburgh. Only time a DE saw a double team was when the stunted.

It was one on one all night and pressure only came due to our DB and LB coverage down field.

By the way, Taylor gets double teamed significantly more than any of our young and currently toothless DE's (not to say that there isn't any potential), but I would give $5 to the person who can find a defensive coordinator worth his salt that would take one of our DE's over Jason Taylor.

eessydo
10-22-2007, 04:33 PM
and that's my point that you didn't address. . . we trade a first day pick for a guy like taylor, we probably get a year or two out of him, instead of the 3-4 years minimum that you get out of a draft pick (and the potential for twice that). . . and you get it at a rookie salary. . . dumervil is giving us just as much production as taylor is giving miami, and he's doing it at a fraction of the cost-- AND he still has a ton of upside.

Dogfish, I did address your point, you need to read the full thread there buddy. With the defense shifting from one coordinator to another, we could probably take a shot at renogiating his deal with the opportunity to win as the selling point. We gain some immediate impact for a year and give our younger guys a mentor that has worked within the defensive system. Re-evaluate him at the end of the year, and see if more investment is required.

Per my quote in my prior posting:


Last but not least a Jim Bates player, we could stand a couple of Bates vets with some gas still in the tank to mentor our younger players.


While the rest of you view that type of acquisition as a move backwards, I perceive it as a stepping stone to progressing our current team. The upside being he can still bring it. Last I checked Michael Strahan is old as dirt, but his play has become even better with Umenyiora. Taylor might be that same threat that frees up Moss, Dumervil or Thomas to put some REAL pressure on the QB.

Problem is, everyone thinks that by going young you get rid of the dead weight. To be effective you need a blend of quality veterans, overachieving superstars and youth. The Brownco move was an acquisition of a bunch of UNDERACHIEVING veterans. Why not go out and make a strong move now, and re-evaluate at the end of the year whether or not you still need the value of an aging but still 100% viable superstar.

dogfish
10-22-2007, 06:58 PM
Dogfish, I did address your point, you need to read the full thread there buddy. With the defense shifting from one coordinator to another, we could probably take a shot at renogiating his deal with the opportunity to win as the selling point. We gain some immediate impact for a year and give our younger guys a mentor that has worked within the defensive system. Re-evaluate him at the end of the year, and see if more investment is required.




i'm not talking about his contract, i'm talking about what we would have to give up to acquire him! "We gain some immediate impact for a year"-- exactly. . . a 1-2 year rental, and potential mentor for the young guys, is not worth the first day draft pick it would have taken to acquire a player of taylor's caliber. . . no way! again, what do you think they would have asked in trade for the reigning DMVP? maybe if you buy into shanahan's "we're one player away" mentality, but to me this team looks a lot farther away than that. . . if cutler were in his prime and we had a healthy team sitting at 5-1, i could see it being worthwhile, but that's not where this team is at right now. . . we're in a position where we need to keep our draft picks and keep adding YOUNG talent to the core of this team. . .


in any case, taylor's availability was never confirmed, and no deal went down, so i'm not going to spend any more time debating the subject. . .

Stargazer
10-23-2007, 01:17 AM
Just what old elite players want to be. A mentor. I swear that and leaders gets tossed around way too much on message boards. Jason Taylor still has some skills left. But, to trade a day one draft pick for a DE who is not getting better and who is making serious bucks doesn't make any sense. Just does not make sense.

Here's a novel idea. Improving the team through the NFL draft. I think Shanny has finally caught on, and the selections have been better the past couple of years. Glad Ted is on board to help make decisions. Yes, Shanny is the end all, but atleast he has more help these days and it's shown via the draft.