View Full Version : Brian Billick: How did the Broncos let Jay Cutler go
Left work a few minutes early today, and heard the end of the 4:00 hour. They had Brian Billick on and they asked him, how did Denver let Cutler go. He said (I'm paraphrasing),
"I don't know how you let a guy with 25 TD's and 4,500 yards, who had no running game and no defense, and is only 25 years old go." He said there aren't many guys in the league that can put up those kind of numbers, at that age, and he is only just now coming into his own.
He then talked about the likely cascade effect that led to it, sort of like when you say something and then think, "man, I wish I could take that back". He said Bowlen was in a no win situation. He just fired a hall of fame coach, hired McDaniels and couldn't step in and force a reconcilation. He said it was much worse because McDaniels is also the OC and QB coach, vs. a situation like between Simms and Parcel, where there was an OC/QB coach that could be a buffer.
Once that trust was gone, you couldn't go into the season with him being the OC and a QB that didn't trust him.
He said that it will be interesting to see how the Broncos take advantage of all the picks, but then reiterated what a big loss it was letting Cutler go.
It was an interesting listen.
Dortoh
04-24-2009, 05:50 PM
He will be 26 on Wednesday so he is really not "only 25" and he thew 18 picks and acts like a 6 year old.
That is all I have anyone else :)
Only thing I can add is....FUBAR
But spilled milk. :coffee:
Unfortunately
Yea, he also left out that the Broncos receivers were something like third worst in dropped passes.
silkamilkamonico
04-24-2009, 05:51 PM
We didn't let him go anywhere. He chose not to be a part of the organization. Why hold back the entire team because of one player?
And when are these "analysts" going to start doing their homework?
Superchop 7
04-24-2009, 05:58 PM
Basically, in a nice way.....he said.........Broncos are idiots.
spikerman
04-24-2009, 06:06 PM
Queue Jr in 3..2...1...
We didn't let him go anywhere. He chose not to be a part of the organization. Why hold back the entire team because of one player?
And when are these "analysts" going to start doing their homework?
Jay was under contract and had stated he would attend all required workouts/camps .
Do you actually believe that Jay holds the team back versus our present QBs?
Basically, in a nice way.....he said.........Broncos are idiots.
Basically he said in a nice way . . . he had been lied to and didn't trust his head coach.
Jay was under contract and had stated he would attend all required workouts/camps .
Do you actually believe that Jay holds the team back versus our present QBs?
Yea, a pouting Cutler is far better than an ecstatic Orton/Simms.
Timmy!
04-24-2009, 06:19 PM
Ugh. I can't wait for the draft so this Cutler stuff can finally die.
As far a Billick goes, oh ya...he sure knows his QB's. He struck gold with Kyle Boller. :rolleyes:
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 06:19 PM
We didn't let him go anywhere. He chose not to be a part of the organization. Why hold back the entire team because of one player?
And when are these "analysts" going to start doing their homework?
when are "fans" going to start doing their homework?
Ugh. I can't wait for the draft so this Cutler stuff can finally die.
As far a Billick goes, oh ya...he sure knows his QB's. He struck gold with Kyle Boller. :rolleyes:
He's aware of that. He said something like, "I spent 10 years trying to find a QB like Cutler."
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 06:21 PM
i agree with billick, mayock, dukes, wilcotts, sharpe and davis and not some random fickle fan.
NameUsedBefore
04-24-2009, 06:21 PM
He's aware of that. He said something like, "I spent 10 years trying to find a QB like Cutler."
Interesting. So did we.
Luckily we got McDaniels.
Amirite or amirite?
Interesting. So did we.
Luckily we got McDaniels.
Amirite or amirite?
Maybe McDaniels can fill a player/coach role and be the 3rd QB.
Lonestar
04-24-2009, 06:25 PM
I'm sorry I thought it was Belicheck that commented on this.. that I could have believed
billick sorry still not a coach after being fired two years ago must tell you something..
jaysus is gone and we should be moving forward after listening to the PC today I know Josh is..
NameUsedBefore
04-24-2009, 06:25 PM
Maybe McDaniels can fill a player/coach role and be the 3rd QB.
Nah, but just for shits and giggles let it be Kyle Boller.
I'm sorry I thought it was Belicheck that commented on this.. that I could have believed
billick sorry still not a coach after being fired two years ago must tell you something..
jaysus is gone and we should be moving forward after listening to the PC today I know Josh is..
If it was Jesus (not jaysus), you would say you coudln't believe him if he said anything good about Jay or Shanahan. ;)
We are moving forward, but those who don't know their history are bound to repeat their mistakes. Nothing wrong with discussing one of the worst moves in the organization's history. It's healthy.
Drill-N-Fill
04-24-2009, 06:29 PM
We need to just get over whatever happened. I'm personally "trying" to buy into McDaniel lately. Please God, don't make me say WTF with the 18th pick. Please no Jenkins/Mathews.
:yawn: If Jay truly wanted to be a Bronco and respected this organization, he would have answered Bowlen's phone calls. I think people forget that Bowlen was the one that decided the situation was irreconcilable...not McD.
:yawn: If Jay truly wanted to be a Bronco and respected this organization, he would have answered Bowlen's phone calls. I think people forget that Bowlen was the one that decided the situation was irreconcilable...not McD.
No question Jay acted immature, after the very young, rookie head coach fumbled the ball.
SmilinAssasSin27
04-24-2009, 06:58 PM
Since when did Billick's opinion matter?
No question Jay acted immature, after the very young, rookie head coach fumbled the ball.
...if you believe Jay's side of the story...that changed several times.
Since when did Billick's opinion matter?
Was that rhetorical?
...if you believe Jay's side of the story...that changed several times.
You don't have to believe Jay. I veteran head coach knows how to handle his players. He doesn't make comments to the press like "we are worried about his drinking, because of the diabetes and whether he can pick up our system."
McDeniels youth and inexperience showed. As a Bronco fan (not a Cutler fan), I hope that his **** up turns out good in the end. That we retool our defense with all those picks, and Orton becomes a great system QB. Odds are against him, but I hope it happens.
You don't have to believe Jay. I veteran head coach knows how to handle his players. He doesn't make comments to the press like "we are worried about his drinking, because of the diabetes and whether he can pick up our system."
McDeniels youth and inexperience showed. As a Bronco fan (not a Cutler fan), I hope that his **** up turns out good in the end. That we retool our defense with all those picks, and Orton becomes a great system QB. Odds are against him, but I hope it happens.
Did McD even say that? I thought that "quote" was one of those "sources close to the team" deals.
If it was Jesus (not jaysus), you would say you coudln't believe him if he said anything good about Jay or Shanahan. ;)
We are moving forward, but those who don't know their history are bound to repeat their mistakes. Nothing wrong with discussing one of the worst moves in the organization's history. It's healthy.
Can we at least wait until the draft, maybe even next season, before we classify it as one of the worst moves in history?
Hindsight is 20/20.
Denver Native (Carol)
04-24-2009, 07:11 PM
We didn't let him go anywhere. He chose not to be a part of the organization. Why hold back the entire team because of one player?
And when are these "analysts" going to start doing their homework?
One day this week Al and Scott had one of the national sports guys on (got in on the middle of the conversation so I don't know who it was), and he said that right after Shannahan was fired and Bates was not retained - Jay ask to be traded - and that person stated that this was BEFORE the talk of possibly bringing Cassell here even leaked out. If this is true, that could be why McD was scrambling to try to get another QB in here.
Did McD even say that? I thought that "quote" was one of those "sources close to the team" deals.
It was a 'source'. The point is that, using one of Jr's phrases, have to be really drinking the koolaide, to not realize that McDaniels handled this situation badly. Does Cutler have any blame? Sure, I think he acted immature, and his manager jumped on the situation to create friction, likely to try and force a contract extension.
That aside, it shouldn't have come to this. McDaniels taking a week or two to say, "Jay's my QB", and that only after the club first made a brief one sentence statement about not trading Jay, and then a day or two later, McDaniels repeating that one sentence.
Like I said, he fumbled the ball, but he is a VERY young, rookie HC. That doesn't mean he won't be the next mastermind. I sure as hell hope he is, rather than being the typically rookie coach that is more of a three years and fired guy.
Can we at least wait until the draft, maybe even next season, before we classify it as one of the worst moves in history?
Hindsight is 20/20.
As I said, as bad as McDaniels clearly screwed up, it is very possible that the ultimate result could be great, depending on how the three picks (plus our normal ones) are used, and if Orton can become a good/great system QB.
Admitting a rookie coach's blunder, and being optimistic about how he can lead the team aren't mutually exclusive.
Nomad
04-24-2009, 07:16 PM
One day this week Al and Scott had one of the national sports guys on (got in on the middle of the conversation so I don't know who it was), and he said that right after Shannahan was fired and Bates was not retained - Jay ask to be traded - and that person stated that this was BEFORE the talk of possibly bringing Cassell here even leaked out
I can believe that because I believe Jay didn't like McDaniels from the beginning.
silkamilkamonico
04-24-2009, 07:17 PM
Jay was under contract and had stated he would attend all required workouts/camps .
Do you actually believe that Jay holds the team back versus our present QBs?
Basically he said in a nice way . . . he had been lied to and didn't trust his head coach.
When your a QB, and a supposed "leader", get your azz to any camp, and lead by example.
Denver Native (Carol)
04-24-2009, 07:17 PM
I can believe that because I believe Jay didn't like McDaniels from the beginning.
Jay obviously did not like it that Shannahan was fired and Bates was not retained.
As I said, as bad as McDaniels clearly screwed up, it is very possible that the ultimate result could be great, depending on how the three picks (plus our normal ones) are used, and if Orton can become a good/great system QB.
Admitting a rookie coach's blunder, and being optimistic about how he can lead the team aren't mutually exclusive.
McD definitely made mistakes, no doubt about it. I just don't think we can classify it as "one of the worst moves in Broncos history" yet. It might end up being just that, but it's too early to say that.
I can believe that because I believe Jay didn't like McDaniels from the beginning.
I believe Jay's agent denies this, just like McDaniels denies that they did anything but take calls, while many NFL "insiders" (whatever the heck that means) say that McDaniels did far more than just field calls.
Bottom line, you can't believe either group, all you can look at is results. How many other teams have had their head coach, new or old, alienate their QB.
silkamilkamonico
04-24-2009, 07:18 PM
when are "fans" going to start doing their homework?
Great counter argument. I'll bump it up to a D- for lack of originality.
Nomad
04-24-2009, 07:21 PM
Jay obviously did not like it that Shannahan was fired and Bates was not retained.
I sensed it before Bates was not retained because he wasn't one of the first players to greet the new HC. I know many here don't see this as a problem but leaders of the team are usually the first ones to show acceptance. Sure he was out of town:rolleyes:!!
McD definitely made mistakes, no doubt about it. I just don't think we can classify it as "one of the worst moves in Broncos history" yet. It might end up being just that, but it's too early to say that.
It will be years before we know. We do know that Jay is the best QB since Elway, and they went through a lot of years trying to find a solid QB. Now, for us to know if it is a horrible mistake or lucky mistake, we need to see if Cutler becomes one of the elite QB's, and whether McDaniels builds the nucleus of a winning team around this years and next years draft.
NameUsedBefore
04-24-2009, 07:59 PM
Cutler's a 25 yr old QB with stupidly high potential. It was a stupid mistake now, if Cutler reaches his potential it'll be a colossal mistake later.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 07:59 PM
Ugh. I can't wait for the draft so this Cutler stuff can finally die.
As far a Billick goes, oh ya...he sure knows his QB's. He struck gold with Kyle Boller. :rolleyes:
THAT would be the perfect example as to WHY he knows just how important a young stud QB is.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 08:01 PM
It will be years before we know. We do know that Jay is the best QB since Elway, and they went through a lot of years trying to find a solid QB. Now, for us to know if it is a horrible mistake or lucky mistake, we need to see if Cutler becomes one of the elite QB's, and whether McDaniels builds the nucleus of a winning team around this years and next years draft.
Exactly right. Problem is... if it does turn out to be a HUGE mistake like so many expect it to be... McDaniels is out of here anyway. He'll move on to another team and we are the one left holding he proverbial bag.
Exactly right. Problem is... if it does turn out to be a HUGE mistake like so many expect it to be... McDaniels is out of here anyway. He'll move on to another team and we are the one left holding he proverbial bag.
I don't know the exact stats, but my feeling is that most coaches go three and out.
nevcraw
04-24-2009, 08:14 PM
I don't know the exact stats, but my feeling is that most coaches go three and out.
Exactly why he should get "his guy" in this draft..
If They dont win this year with Orton and then they draft a guy next year it'll be to late for McD. They wont win too many most likely with a rookie QB and then after 2 shitty seasons Bowlen sends MCD packing...
Exactly why he should get "his guy" in this draft..
If They dont win this year with Orton and then they draft a guy next year it'll be to late for McD. They wont win too many most likely with a rookie QB and then after 2 shitty seasons Bowlen sends MCD packing...
Hence the reason the rookie coach should have come in here and immediately made nice with cutler.
Now that that's blown, he needs to hope he is right that Orton can run his system, and build an impact defense. Even if he picked Sanchez this year, the odds are against him being a winning QB before McD's honeymoon is over.
WARHORSE
04-24-2009, 08:21 PM
When your a QB, and a supposed "leader", get your azz to any camp, and lead by example.
...........and be reminded that just cause you lead by example and show up early and leave late, work harder than the rest, have no off the field problems, be a stalwart in the community, and help little old ladies across the steet.....that dont mean we wont shop you if we feel like it helps us, get used to it....its a business. My name is JCMD and Im the HMOC!
Nomad
04-24-2009, 08:21 PM
Hence the reason the rookie coach should have come in here and immediately made nice with cutler.
Exactly how would he have done that...by giving him a new contract he wasn't worth??
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 08:21 PM
Billick + Franchise Quarterbacks = Fail.
:rolleyes:
WARHORSE
04-24-2009, 08:23 PM
Well, Cutlers gone, and Id like to have a decent offense even if we dont have a defense. The offense is ready NOW with a good QB. The defense has been overhauled to an extent, and we still have 9 picks to use on defense if we use two on Sanchezio.
...........and be reminded that just cause you lead by example and show up early and leave late, work harder than the rest, have no off the field problems, be a stalwart in the community, and help little old ladies across the steet.....that dont mean we wont shop you if we feel like it helps us, get used to it....its a business.
Yea, that was the most crazy part from Jay's side. It is a business, he's getting paid millions of dollars. Check your ego at the door, cash your paycheck and bust your but to win games.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 08:24 PM
Ho hum.....
:coffee:
silkamilkamonico
04-24-2009, 08:25 PM
...........and be reminded that just cause you lead by example and show up early and leave late, work harder than the rest, have no off the field problems, be a stalwart in the community, and help little old ladies across the steet.....that dont mean we wont shop you if we feel like it helps us, get used to it....its a business.
He can't show up early, leave late, and work harder than everybody else when he doesn't even show up.
No off field problems? Big deal. Join the club of the other 98% starting QB's in the NFL.
I could honestly care less about a QB helping little old ladies or being a stalwart in the community. "Nice guy" isn't a job description of the QB.
Exactly how would he have done that...by giving him a new contract he wasn't worth??
Don't ask me, I'm not a head coach, I don't get paid the big bucks. If McDaniels didn't know how, maybe he could have turned to one of the other 31 head coaches that haven't alienated their star player, or some former head coaches for advice.
One start would have been to not try and figure out three way trades to trade for a one year wonder that might never have another good season. Plenty of things he could have done that had nothing to do with a contract.
Medford Bronco
04-24-2009, 08:29 PM
:yawn: If Jay truly wanted to be a Bronco and respected this organization, he would have answered Bowlen's phone calls. I think people forget that Bowlen was the one that decided the situation was irreconcilable...not McD.
and he listened to his scummy buddy Bus "I wannabe Scott Boras" Cook.:rolleyes:
Medford Bronco
04-24-2009, 08:31 PM
Billick + Franchise Quarterbacks = Fail.
:rolleyes:
Come on you did not love when Elvis Grbac (sp) played for the Ravens in 2001:lol:
and he listened to his scummy buddy Bus "I wannabe Scott Boras" Cook.:rolleyes:
Yea, there definately seemed to be very bad advice coming from the agent.
Hopefully, in the end we will have a retooled defense, and Cutler and the Bears will win 2 game this season and finish with the worst record in the NFL, giving us the number one pick in 2010.
Northman
04-24-2009, 08:32 PM
Im still trying to figure out why Billick let Dilfer go after winning the Super Bowl. Dilfer was pissed at Billick after that and all the guy did was go out and do what was asked of him. I think Billick is the last guy who should be talking about Coach/Player trust.
nevcraw
04-24-2009, 08:34 PM
Hence the reason the rookie coach should have come in here and immediately made nice with cutler.
Now that that's blown, he needs to hope he is right that Orton can run his system, and build an impact defense. Even if he picked Sanchez this year, the odds are against him being a winning QB before McD's honeymoon is over.
Exactly!!! This has been been my issue with the way this went down from the begining.. It was bad business plain and simple.. we as bronco fans should not have to pray for a miracle in order for them to win games again..
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 08:34 PM
Yea, there definately seemed to be very bad advice coming from the agent.
Hopefully, in the end we will have a retooled defense, and Cutler and the Bears will win 2 game this season and finish with the worst record in the NFL, giving us the number one pick in 2010.
..... and bring on Tebow.
Exactly!!! This has been been my issue with the way this went down from the begining.. It was bad business plain and simple.. we as bronco fans should not have to pray for a miracle in order for them to win games again..
While some have blown off Billick's comments, he was relating what happened to when you say something and then immediately wish you could take it back. McD got excited about the chance of getting his guy, Cassel, but then when that didn't pan out, he was left not being able to "take it back" and having things quickly cascade out of control.
It's still too early to say whether Cutler, Cassel or Orton is the best QB for this team, but we do know one thing.
Cassel was traded WITH vrabel for a 2nd round pick.
Orton was a throw in with two first round picks and a third to get another QB.
Cutler was traded for two firsts, a third and a starting NFL QB.
Based on market value of these three QB's, only ONE commanded a high price tag.
nevcraw
04-24-2009, 08:39 PM
..... and bring on Tebow.
who's going to be the coach?
Nomad
04-24-2009, 08:39 PM
Don't ask me, I'm not a head coach, I don't get paid the big bucks. If McDaniels didn't know how, maybe he could have turned to one of the other 31 head coaches that haven't alienated their star player, or some former head coaches for advice.
One start would have been to not try and figure out three way trades to trade for a one year wonder that might never have another good season. Plenty of things he could have done that had nothing to do with a contract.
I know everything is assumptions and speculations from us fans, but how do you(we) know Jay didn't like him from the get go and after Bates left, he didn't want to be here, so McDaniels threw from the hip and the Cassel thing happened. In my opinion, Cutler could have swallowed his pride and made McDaniels look like an idiot trying to even bring up the word trade. Showed up with his teammates, talked to his teammates and been there for his teammates....this is where I lost any respect for Cutler and so he didn't trust McDaniels, hell I don't trust my bosses either because I'm just a number but I still go to work. Obviously, he's excited to be with his dream team (I believe Bowlen did this more as a favor for Cutler going to the Bears especially if we draft Sanchez).
..... and bring on Tebow.
I'm not an NCAA guy, but guys I have talked to say Tebow and a couple other QB's that decided to not come out early will be coming out next year and it should be a deep QB class.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 08:40 PM
I'm not an NCAA guy, but guys I have talked to say Tebow and a couple other QB's that decided to not come out early will be coming out next year and it should be a deep QB class.
A lot deeper than this years.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 08:41 PM
I'm not an NCAA guy, but guys I have talked to say Tebow and a couple other QB's that decided to not come out early will be coming out next year and it should be a deep QB class.
Not any deeper than this year's.
Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma, and MAYBE Colt McCoy, QB, Texas are top tier. I can't even fathom why some people think next year's class is deeper.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 08:41 PM
A lot deeper than this years.
Who?
I know everything is assumptions and speculations from us fans, but how do you(we) know Jay didn't like him from the get go and after Bates left, he didn't want to be here, so McDaniels threw from the hip and the Cassel thing happened. In my opinion, Cutler could have swallowed his pride and made McDaniels look like an idiot trying to even bring up the word trade. Showed up with his teammates, talked to his teammates and been there for his teammates....this is where I lost any respect for Cutler and so he didn't trust McDaniels, hell I don't trust my bosses either because I'm just a number but I still go to work. Obviously, he's excited to be with his dream team (I believe Bowlen did this more as a favor for Cutler going to the Bears especially if we draft Sanchez).
I don't disagree. Like I said, I can't in ANY way defend Cutler's actions, even though I believe McDaniels made a rookie HC mistake. Even if McD screwed up in how he handled things, even if he INITIATED talks to get Cassel, the fact is that Cutler was a Bronco being paid millions of dollars, he should have swallowed his pride and proven (on the field) that McDaniels was crazy to even think about trading him.
Elway didn't demand a trade after Reeves picked Maddox or when he was rumored to want to trade Elway. Elway talked about retiring over the way the press and fans treated/scrutinized his every off-field move (ahhh, the Elway's are giving out cheap holloween candy), but he didn't demand a trade when Reeves was an idiot.
OrangeHoof
04-24-2009, 08:44 PM
Exactly how would he have done that...by giving him a new contract he wasn't worth??
No, by giving him respect. A smart head coach (especially a former OC and QB coach) should know his field leader is gold. He should instill confidence, knowing that confidence translates into the huddle and filters to the rest of the team. By undermining his QB and dangling trade offers for him, he was basically telling Cutler "we don't need you". Whether, in reality, it was true or not, you have to give your QB confidence he is "the man" if you want to get his best game out of him.
The quickest way to lose in this league is to fill your QB with doubt.
Not any deeper than this year's.
Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma, and MAYBE Colt McCoy, QB, Texas are top tier. I can't even fathom why some people think next year's class is deeper.
Like I said, I don't follow NCAA. I have heard some people who like Bradford, but I watch a few Razorback games and that's about it.
Nomad
04-24-2009, 08:45 PM
Not any deeper than this year's.
Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma, and MAYBE Colt McCoy, QB, Texas are top tier. I can't even fathom why some people think next year's class is deeper.
The way I see it, Big 12 defenses can make any QB look good!:nod:
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 08:45 PM
Who?
Tebow
Nomad
04-24-2009, 08:47 PM
No, by giving him respect. A smart head coach (especially a former OC and QB coach) should know his field leader is gold. He should instill confidence, knowing that confidence translates into the huddle and filters to the rest of the team. By undermining his QB and dangling trade offers for him, he was basically telling Cutler "we don't need you". Whether, in reality, it was true or not, you have to give your QB confidence he is "the man" if you want to get his best game out of him.
The quickest way to lose in this league is to fill your QB with doubt.
In what I wrote in post 61, how do we know this didn't happened? I also agree with what you say about HC respecting the leaders of the team but regardless of a rookie HC, the respect has to be mutual!!
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 08:47 PM
Tebow
:tsk:
Bust. He does the whole "raw-raw" college thing and (I call it the "Hansbrough"), where everyone gets excited about his accomplishments, but he isn't going to do crap in the pros, unless they utilize where he's probably going to play best...TE or WR, or maybe S...
Dude can't run an NFL offense. Can't do it. So sorry...besides...one player does not make a draft class deep at a position.
who's going to be the coach?
I'm thinking after McD fails to get us to the playoffs in three years, then Bowlen goes back to Shanahan... Kyle Shanahan. :lol:
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 08:49 PM
I'm thinking after McD fails to get us to the playoffs in three years, then Bowlen goes back to Shanahan... Kyle Shanahan. :lol:
Fail to get to the playoffs? Never fear, Jay Cutler doesn't play for us anymore.
:choke:
In what I wrote in post 61, how do we know this didn't happened?
We don't, and may never, know what happened. Just like we don't know why Coyer was fired, whether Shanahan not firing Slowick was the final straw, or so many other behind closed doors facts.
Everything we have talked about for the past couple months in regard to McD and Cutler has been pure speculation/guesses.
I'm not an NCAA guy, but guys I have talked to say Tebow and a couple other QB's that decided to not come out early will be coming out next year and it should be a deep QB class.
I wouldn't know which is a weaker QB class, this one or next year's, but it would benefit Tebow to come out during the weaker one. Last 2 seasons, Vince Young's really hurt the image of the rushing QB.
Mayock believes Tebow is a difference maker, the way some believe Pat White is. Tebow would probably be good for any team, but maybe not as your starting QB.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 08:52 PM
I don't disagree. Like I said, I can't in ANY way defend Cutler's actions, even though I believe McDaniels made a rookie HC mistake. Even if McD screwed up in how he handled things, even if he INITIATED talks to get Cassel, the fact is that Cutler was a Bronco being paid millions of dollars, he should have swallowed his pride and proven (on the field) that McDaniels was crazy to even think about trading him.
Elway didn't demand a trade after Reeves picked Maddox or when he was rumored to want to trade Elway. Elway talked about retiring over the way the press and fans treated/scrutinized his every off-field move (ahhh, the Elway's are giving out cheap holloween candy), but he didn't demand a trade when Reeves was an idiot.
but I dont' think the trade demand was about the idiot move by mcdaniels trying to trade for cassel. I think it was purely based on trust, and completely unable to trust mcdaniels.
at the pro-bowl..before anything was talked about...cutler said he was excited to get to work..blah blah blah.. and in that interview mentioned how the two of them would have to work on their trust. Even then, trust was on Cutler's mind. Most people criticized the way he didn't hold anything back to the media, and I think thats just who he is. He's too honest right to the point of saying everything thats on his mind to anyone.
Once that trust was gone... like Shannon Sharpe and so many others said.... they couldn't trust their coaches again. Cutler didn't want to work for a guy he couldn't/didn't trust. McDaniels in his interview on tv.. didn't do ANYTHING to secure that trust when asked "so Jay is your QB of the future? ..."no one can predict the future"...he basically was pushing Jay out, and jay knew it.
Its a different time now than it was back then with Elway. Hell..Elway was the first to choose NOT to go play for the team that drafted him.... who's to say that today, if young, he would simply go elsewhere.... especially knowing there are lots of other teams that can go after you (unlike his first ten years in the NFL).
NameUsedBefore
04-24-2009, 08:53 PM
I don't disagree. Like I said, I can't in ANY way defend Cutler's actions, even though I believe McDaniels made a rookie HC mistake. Even if McD screwed up in how he handled things, even if he INITIATED talks to get Cassel, the fact is that Cutler was a Bronco being paid millions of dollars, he should have swallowed his pride and proven (on the field) that McDaniels was crazy to even think about trading him.
Elway didn't demand a trade after Reeves picked Maddox or when he was rumored to want to trade Elway. Elway talked about retiring over the way the press and fans treated/scrutinized his every off-field move (ahhh, the Elway's are giving out cheap holloween candy), but he didn't demand a trade when Reeves was an idiot.
Nothing excuses Cutler's actions, but it's the norm. Every season players hold out or get whiny and you know what? Teams have settled for less. Teams have looked at situations like Cutler's and came to grips even with far less important positions.
I still can't get over that we let Cutler go. That just blows my ****ing mind sometimes. It could not possibly have been that hard to do some human management and keep him around. And for who? Some coach who we have seen NOTHING of?
Jeeeeeeeeeez.
And MO's equation is totally wrong. It's more like this:
NFL Teams + Franchise Quarterbacks = Fail.
They don't grow on trees. You'd think wasting a fantastic running game and solid defense on the likes of Griese and Plummer would make people wise to that fact, but I dunno. Apparently Billick is a failure for not getting Boller to work out; and Dennis Green just couldn't get that "sure thing" Leinart to pan. Belichick, he's a genius though. Totally planned Bledsoe getting knocked out and some nobody benchwarmer coming in to be one of the best of the era.
Why can't everyone emulate that? The blueprint is totally obvious and easy.
Nomad
04-24-2009, 08:54 PM
We don't, and may never, know what happened. Just like we don't know why Coyer was fired, whether Shanahan not firing Slowick was the final straw, or so many other behind closed doors facts.
Everything we have talked about for the past couple months in regard to McD and Cutler has been pure speculation/guesses.
Not necessarily you, but why crucify McDaniels and not give Cutler the same treatment, both could have done things alot different and age/experience has nothing to do with it....it's pure pride and ego!!!!
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 08:57 PM
NFL Teams + Franchise Quarterbacks = Fail.
So...with a franchise quarterback, teams fail?
Um...That statement can't be any clearer, can it?
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 08:57 PM
Not necessarily you, but why crucify McDaniels and not give Cutler the same treatment, both could have done things alot different and age/experience has nothing to do with it....it's pure pride and ego!!!!
yes.. but I personally would expect my coach.. the leader/baby sitter/father of my football team to be more mature than a young kid just out of college.
Players can be boisterous and erogant. They can have their personality problems and off-field crap..... because it comes down to what they do on the field. The Coach on the other hand, is someone you expect to be mature...seasoned... a man that is meant to take control. The ones that do, succeed BIG time in the NFL. The ones that don't...well..... fail.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:00 PM
yes.. but I personally would expect my coach.. the leader/baby sitter/father of my football team to be more mature than a young kid just out of college.
So three years means "just out of college?"
The coach hanlded it maturely. He explained everything to the player and the player still whined and cried his way out of town, and THEN lied about it...
NameUsedBefore
04-24-2009, 09:01 PM
So...with a franchise quarterback, teams fail?
Um...That statement can't be any clearer, can it?
Well, the original equation didn't make much sense either so I guess I figured franchise QB was more of a "Franchise QB".
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:03 PM
So three years means "just out of college?"
The coach hanlded it maturely. He explained everything to the player and the player still whined and cried his way out of town, and THEN lied about it...
McDaniels lied from day one... If YOU want to believe the COMPLETE CRAP of "I was just answering the phones".. Fine. Put your head in the sand and believe it. Up to you.. no biggie to me.
But if you think McDaniels handled this maturely... you are intentionally being blind... that or just flat out being stupid. You choose.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:03 PM
umm...not sure if this is off topic or not...
But can someone PLEASE explain to me what the definition of a franchise QB is? I know there is no clear cut definition, but everyone has their idea or thoughts on what makes up a Franchise QB.....
So what makes up a Franchise QB?
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:03 PM
Well, the original equation didn't make much sense either so I guess I figured franchise QB was more of a "Franchise QB".
I'm sorry, but what part of "Brian Billick + Franchise Quarterback = Fail" don't you understand.
His inability to bring along Kyle Boller as a franchise quarterback was the reason he was fired. :noidea:
NameUsedBefore
04-24-2009, 09:03 PM
Pretty sure McDaniels pissed any sort of trust and honesty out with the fiasco, regardless of Cutler's own actions. I stopped trusting him half way through the ordeal, as did many here, and they were completely right to do so. McDaniels was saying "He was our QB" and many here were calling bullshit and, you know what, they were right. McDaniels was just bullshitting out the ass pretty much the entire time and even the fans saw right through it. That's pretty pathetic.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:03 PM
McDaniels lied from day one... If YOU want to believe the COMPLETE CRAP of "I was just answering the phones".. Fine. Put your head in the sand and believe it. Up to you.. no biggie to me.
But if you think McDaniels handled this maturely... you are intentionally being blind... that or just flat out being stupid. You choose.
What did McDaniel's lie about?
Meanwhile, Cutler:
I want a trade.
"I didn't think it would come to this."
Douche bag DEMANDED a trade and then said he didn't want one.
And yes, I take people at their word, and don't imply shit, unlike Cutler, and apparently you.
Nomad
04-24-2009, 09:04 PM
yes.. but I personally would expect my coach.. the leader/baby sitter/father of my football team to be more mature than a young kid just out of college.
Players can be boisterous and erogant. They can have their personality problems and off-field crap..... because it comes down to what they do on the field. The Coach on the other hand, is someone you expect to be mature...seasoned... a man that is meant to take control. The ones that do, succeed BIG time in the NFL. The ones that don't...well..... fail.
Again, how do you know Cutler didn't want to play for McDaniels after Bates left or even before??? I know what a coaches role is but if a player doesn't want to play for you then there's not much you can do (and that goes for all levels of football). The HC did take control and started his camps and left the door open for Cutler maybe Mcdaniels isn't the type to take a grown man by the hand and assure him everything is ok. Cutler made his bed not necessarily with McDaniels but Bowlen.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:04 PM
McDaniels lied from day one... If YOU want to believe the COMPLETE CRAP of "I was just answering the phones".. Fine. Put your head in the sand and believe it. Up to you.. no biggie to me.
But if you think McDaniels handled this maturely... you are intentionally being blind... that or just flat out being stupid. You choose.
So Rav, since you seem to be in the "inner circle" of the behind closed meetings...who are we drafting tomorrow?
NameUsedBefore
04-24-2009, 09:06 PM
I'm sorry, but what part of "Brian Billick + Franchise Quarterback = Fail" don't you understand.
His inability to bring along Kyle Boller as a franchise quarterback was the reason he was fired. :noidea:
Looks like semantics then.
I was going more along with the fact that Kyle Boller would NEVER be a franchise QB, regardless of the coach. Which is exactly my point: They don't grow on trees and teams just luck out. Those "sure things" just fall on their faces and then you get 6th rounders forging dynasties.
Not necessarily you, but why crucify McDaniels and not give Cutler the same treatment, both could have done things alot different and age/experience has nothing to do with it....it's pure pride and ego!!!!
That's why I don't give Cutler a pass. He acted very immature and in the end forced he franchises hand. However, the head coach should never have let it get to that point.
Again, not mutually exclusive. Like me saying that McD screwed the pooch, but still hoping he is ultimately successful aren't mutually exclusive, the same with being able to see that Cutler was wrong in the end, and McDaniels screwed the pooch in the beginning.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:08 PM
Looks like semantics then.
I was going more along with the fact that Kyle Boller would NEVER be a franchise QB, regardless of the coach. Which is exactly my point: They don't grow on trees and teams just luck out. Those "sure things" just fall on their faces and then you get 6th rounders forging dynasties.
Because Brian Billick had NOTHING to do with drafting him...:rolleyes:
Denver Native (Carol)
04-24-2009, 09:08 PM
This topic could be discussed forever - BUT - it happened - regardless of who is to blame - and it is OVER :rolleyes:
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:09 PM
So Rav, since you seem to be in the "inner circle" of the behind closed meetings...who are we drafting tomorrow?
Come on. We know you don't have to be in the "inner circle" to see that you don't have THREE teams call you up out of the blue to ask you to trade your 25 yr old Franchise, pro-bowl, QB that still had 3 years on his contract. Teams just don't do that.
Cutler knew it from day one. "Just answering the phoen".. horse crap. Every ex-player knew this was full of crap-o-la. They know how things work. You don't just have GMs asking if you are 'interested' in trading your top players unless they KNOW you are looking to trade.
Even in a court of LAW they ask a jury to judge based on 'reasonable doubt'... not "Absolute no doubt." NO ONE was in the room, but its pretty damned clear and I didn't need to be there to see a LOUSY lie and media back-petal.... right out of belicheck's book. The day OF The media break-out, he refused to talk to the reporters... and when he finally came forward... it was 'deny deny deny'... just like you hear every lawyer in the country advise you to do. WHY? Because they know there are some that will ALWAYS say "you weren't there"..."you don't know"......... come on. You aren't stupid. You can think for yourself and I know you aren't one to let people pull the easy wool over your eyes with the "I just answered the phone"... junk.
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 09:10 PM
This topic could be discussed forever - BUT - it happened - regardless of who is to blame - and it is OVER :rolleyes:
Exactly. If Cutler does good, great. I'm not cheering for a damn Chicago team though. GO BRONCOS!:salute:
:lol:
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:10 PM
Looks like semantics then.
I was going more along with the fact that Kyle Boller would NEVER be a franchise QB, regardless of the coach. Which is exactly my point: They don't grow on trees and teams just luck out. Those "sure things" just fall on their faces and then you get 6th rounders forging dynasties.
Boller was never a franchise QB... exactly.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:11 PM
Come on. We know you don't have to be in the "inner circle" to see that you don't have THREE teams call you up out of the blue to ask you to trade your 25 yr old Franchise, pro-bowl, QB that still had 3 years on his contract. Teams just don't do that.
Cutler knew it from day one. "Just answering the phoen".. horse crap. Every ex-player knew this was full of crap-o-la. They know how things work. You don't just have GMs asking if you are 'interested' in trading your top players unless they KNOW you are looking to trade.
Even in a court of LAW they ask a jury to judge based on 'reasonable doubt'... not "Absolute no doubt." NO ONE was in the room, but its pretty damned clear and I didn't need to be there to see a LOUSY lie and media back-petal.... right out of belicheck's book. The day OF The media break-out, he refused to talk to the reporters... and when he finally came forward... it was 'deny deny deny'... just like you hear every lawyer in the country advise you to do. WHY? Because they know there are some that will ALWAYS say "you weren't there"..."you don't know"......... come on. You aren't stupid. You can think for yourself and I know you aren't one to let people pull the easy wool over your eyes with the "I just answered the phone"... junk.
Which brings up the interesting question of, "so what?"
"So what that they tried to trade him?"
What has Cutler done? Choked away a three-game division lead? (No, I know that's the defense's fault). Got a HOF coach fired? So what if they were "seeking" offers, which clearly isn't the truth, but if you believe it is, "so what?"
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:12 PM
Boller was never a franchise QB... exactly.
First round quarterbacks are Franchise quarterbacks.
Deal with it.
Exactly. If Cutler does good, great. I'm not cheering for a damn Chicago team though. GO BRONCOS!:salute:
:lol:
After 2009, I wish Cutler well. I have a friend that has been suffering as a Bears fan for most of the last 20 years, so I would like to see him have something good to root for.
I just hope Chicago and Cutler have a horrible 2009 season.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:13 PM
Come on. We know you don't have to be in the "inner circle" to see that you don't have THREE teams call you up out of the blue to ask you to trade your 25 yr old Franchise, pro-bowl, QB that still had 3 years on his contract. Teams just don't do that.
Cutler knew it from day one. "Just answering the phoen".. horse crap. Every ex-player knew this was full of crap-o-la. They know how things work. You don't just have GMs asking if you are 'interested' in trading your top players unless they KNOW you are looking to trade.
Even in a court of LAW they ask a jury to judge based on 'reasonable doubt'... not "Absolute no doubt." NO ONE was in the room, but its pretty damned clear and I didn't need to be there to see a LOUSY lie and media back-petal.... right out of belicheck's book. The day OF The media break-out, he refused to talk to the reporters... and when he finally came forward... it was 'deny deny deny'... just like you hear every lawyer in the country advise you to do. WHY? Because they know there are some that will ALWAYS say "you weren't there"..."you don't know"......... come on. You aren't stupid. You can think for yourself and I know you aren't one to let people pull the easy wool over your eyes with the "I just answered the phone"... junk.
Okay, so lets just assume that McD was the one who started all of the trade talks to get rid of Cutler for Cassell. Do you fault him? After what he accomplished with Cassell last season? Do you fault a coach who wants to try to do things to better his new team? I don't. And personally I am glad the Cassell talks fell through because I think we made out even better with the Bears trade.
Anyway..I don't believe he lied...and if he did he tried to make it better. Cutler then was at fault. It can be a 50-50 blame at this point for all I care.
All I know is Cutler is gone, McD is here to stay and looking to build this team for the future.
NameUsedBefore
04-24-2009, 09:15 PM
Because Brian Billick had NOTHING to do with drafting him...:rolleyes:
Jesus MO, the point is you can draft a Peyton Manning or you can get a Ryan Leaf and before both hit the field who is to say which is the better pick? Jeff Fisher drafted Vince Young, so is Fisher a failure of a coach? Hardly. So what was the problem?
The problem is this: He drafted a QB.
There is absolutely no method or blueprint to getting a cornerstone at the QB position at all. So when teams get them my goodness do they latch on usually for ten, fifteen years a pop and enjoy themselves a Superbowl or two (or more). They don't piss them off, totally fail to get them onboard, and then trade their whiny asses off. That's unheard of. There's no record of a team trading a 25-yr old franchise QB like Cutler.
There's a reason that's unheard of. And no if you thought it: a QB acting like Cutler is not unheard of. Guess again.
nevcraw
04-24-2009, 09:15 PM
What did McDaniel's lie about?
Meanwhile, Cutler:
I want a trade.
"I didn't think it would come to this."
Douche bag DEMANDED a trade and then said he didn't want one.
And yes, I take people at their word, and don't imply shit, unlike Cutler, and apparently you.
that's why you're so pissy?? LOL>> that is hardly lying.. he was talking like any goverment official..
and yes McD did lie..
"we were not not trying to trade Cutler"
and then it was "we did engage in talks about trading Cutler.." That's lying..
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:16 PM
First round quarterbacks are Franchise quarterbacks.
Deal with it.
And that title they are labeled with are why the majority of them fail in the NFL.
Its handed to them just like Cutler had everything handed to him. When faced with adversity on or off the field he couldn't handle it. That is NOT a franchise QB to me. I don't care where you are drafted, if you can't deal with adversity and handle it maturely, you have no right being labeled a Franchise QB. Give me a 3rd or 4th round sleeper that has to work to succeed in the NFL over a 1st rounder any day these days.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:17 PM
Which brings up the interesting question of, "so what?"
"So what that they tried to trade him?"
What has Cutler done? Choked away a three-game division lead? (No, I know that's the defense's fault). Got a HOF coach fired? So what if they were "seeking" offers, which clearly isn't the truth, but if you believe it is, "so what?"
If its a 'so what'.. WHY did McDaniel lie about it? So what? If he was straight forward about it.. SO WHAT is right. But dont' tell me to my face that "i'm your guy".. "things are great".." I can't wait to work with you".. then try to 'sneak' a trade behind my back.. THEN LIE about it. If you want to be foolish enough to believe the "just answering calls" CRAP.. great. Be naive.... no worries here.
If it was 'so what'... why did so many other NFL players say that after they were traded or 'attempted to be traded'.. behind their backs, they never trusted their coach again.
Please don't say Cutler got Shanahan fired. You are only removing absolutely any validity to your argument may have.
So what doesn't work. If its a "so what" that they were looking to trade Cutler.. then WHY is it SUCH a big deal to you that Cutler asked to be traded? Make up your mind. So what, right? I mean its a business, right? Or is it only a business when the coaches try to trade the players away, but its a 'whiner' if they ask to be trade? Maybe its because he wanted traded from Denver and you can't look at it objectively... don't know.
But I know that its not just a 'so what'.. and I know I'm not blind enough to simply accept the 'deny deny deny' lines as fact. Maybe thats how you want to see it because it helps you deal.
Nomad
04-24-2009, 09:17 PM
This topic could be discussed forever - BUT - it happened - regardless of who is to blame - and it is OVER :rolleyes:
True DN! After tomorrow there'll be plenty to talk about! Hopefully, it's all good news!! And after next season, there will be a big cookout and crow will be served, for who, we'll find out??:D
getlynched47
04-24-2009, 09:18 PM
Ugh. I can't wait for the draft so this Cutler stuff can finally die.
As far a Billick goes, oh ya...he sure knows his QB's. He struck gold with Kyle Boller. :rolleyes:
This Cutler stuff isn't going to die until McDaniels proves he can with with Kyle Orton and Chris Simms, AND gets fair or greater value with those draft picks. Get used to it.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:20 PM
This Cutler stuff isn't going to die until McDaniels proves he can with with Kyle Orton and Chris Simms, AND gets fair or greater value with those draft picks. Get used to it.
Maybe we can NOT start threads about Cutler...I dunno...maybe...
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 09:21 PM
If someone told me just 4 months ago that a blurb by Brian Billick from the radio would cause an uproar on these forums, I would have punched my mom in the face before I believed it...
Mothers day IS just right around the corner. I should call her...
I miss the hell out of Cutler, but he sure as hell doesn't miss me, doesn't know who I am, and never bought my jersey for $200.
Godspeed fair Cutler, may the winds of Soldier Field not blow you balls astray, and may your spiral always find the right color jersey. Unless you play the Denver Broncos. Then you can go to (EDIT) HECK and GET HORRIBLE GAS PAINS. :lol:
Its a longshot, but could you imagine a Denver/Chicago superbowl? The ratings would be through the roof.
nevcraw
04-24-2009, 09:21 PM
First round quarterbacks are Franchise quarterbacks.
Deal with it.
looks like someone is fairly weak in the soft skills.
This Cutler stuff isn't going to die until McDaniels proves he can with with Kyle Orton and Chris Simms, AND gets fair or greater value with those draft picks. Get used to it.
Yep, until Orton is as good in his 'system' as he says he will be, and gets at least three very good players from those three draft picks, this will be a major topic.
Winning cures all. If McDaniels goes out in 2009 and wins while playing possibly the toughest schedule anyone will have in '09, then much of this will be put to rest. Short of that, we are going to be looking at how Cutler is playing, and how the two firsts and a third pan out.
Maybe we can NOT start threads about Cutler...I dunno...maybe...
Why not. Better to have heated discussions about actual Broncos football then the stuff of the last few days.
If we all had the same opinions, life would be boring. Who wants boring.
Nomad
04-24-2009, 09:23 PM
If someone told me just 4 months ago that a blurb by Brian Billick from the radio would cause an uproar on these forums, I would have punched my mom in the face before I believed it...
Mothers day IS just right around the corner. I should call her...
I miss the hell out of Cutler, but he sure as hell doesn't miss me, doesn't know who I am, and never bought my jersey for $200.
Godspeed fair Cutler, may the winds of Soldier Field not blow you balls astray, and may your spiral always find the right color jersey. Unless you play the Denver Broncos. Then you can go to (EDIT) HECK and GET HORRIBLE GAS PAINS. :lol:
Its a longshot, but could you imagine a Denver/Chicago superbowl? The ratings would be through the roof.
Your poor mom, could have a least kicked the cat...that's if you can catch it!:D
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:24 PM
looks like someone is fairly weak in the soft skills.
So, Baltimore drafted Boller in the first round because they thought he wouldn't be a Franchise quarterback?
Um...what?
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:25 PM
Okay, so lets just assume that McD was the one who started all of the trade talks to get rid of Cutler for Cassell. Do you fault him? After what he accomplished with Cassell last season? Do you fault a coach who wants to try to do things to better his new team? I don't. And personally I am glad the Cassell talks fell through because I think we made out even better with the Bears trade.
Anyway..I don't believe he lied...and if he did he tried to make it better. Cutler then was at fault. It can be a 50-50 blame at this point for all I care.
All I know is Cutler is gone, McD is here to stay and looking to build this team for the future.
well. yeah. I DO blame him. Absolutely.
I do blame any coach that comes to a team, trades away a GOOD QB for a guy thats a career back-up. I've seen it happen time and time and time in the NFL with players having a good season off the bench. TONS of QBs have gotten starting jobs because of how they performed coming off the bench for the perennial starter. Scott Mitchell, Hostetler, King, Blake, Pederson.. just to name a few off the top of my head.
Even Walsh commented (before passing) on the trend for new coaches coming in and attempting to replace good QBs with "their guy" simply because they didn't draft them. I get that McDaniels wanted his guy so that he didn't have to concentrate on coaching teh offense. I GET how it would make things easier for this first year. But ONLY that first year. After that, then you are purely playing with a weaker player. So yes.. I blame him for wanting that.
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 09:25 PM
Why not. Better to have heated discussions about actual Broncos football then the stuff of the last few days.
If we all had the same opinions, life would be boring. Who wants boring.
I do. I want a day when the letters C-U-T-L-E-R are only in the phrase "I put the CUTLERy next to the fine china in the hutch."
I do. I want a day when the letters C-U-T-L-E-R are only in the phrase "I put the CUTLERy next to the fine china in the hutch."
so, you aren't a fan of the new BearsForums.com (http://www.BearsForums.com)? ;)
Denver Native (Carol)
04-24-2009, 09:27 PM
I just found this article - it was before the trade.
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/football/bob_blog/2009/03/more_on_the_josh_mcdaniels_int.html
More on the Josh McDaniels interview about Jay Cutler
The NFL has provided a more detailed account of Scott Hanson's interview with Josh McDaniels, to be aired tonight on NFL Network's "Total Access" at 7 p.m.
As I read through this transcription, I get the sense that McDaniels and the Broncos are doing everything in their power to salvage their relationship with Jay Cutler and convince him to remain with the team.
I'm not saying they won't trade him. I'm just saying my sense is that they'd like to find a way to make Cutler believe that he is the present and future of this franchise.
McDaniels: Jay and I will have an opportunity to talk more as we go here. I know it's been a very public issue and this is something that I think happens more than people realize. We have a relationship, nobody knows where it stands right now, but it's going to get better. It will continue to get better, I believe that. I think it's something that both parties have to work toward a solid resolution. We have a good nucleus of players there that are looking forward to seeing him back at the facility and working with him. It will get to that point at some point in the near future.
Hanson: Do you see him as the quarterback of the Denver Broncos?
McDaniels: Yes. He's our quarterback.
Hanson: Present-tense.
McDaniels: He's our quarterback. Period.
Hanson: Future-tense? He will be your quarterback?
McDaniels: He's our quarterback. We can't predict the future. He's our quarterback, we want him to be our quarterback, we made that very clear to him and we hope he feels the same way.
Hanson: (Cutler) has asked for a trade and he says he wants to leave. He's still under contract with Denver, so is the door open in your mind for him to still be the (Broncos') quarterback?
McDaniels: Sure. Absolutely. He's under contract as you mentioned and we've made it clear that we want him to be back here (in Denver) and lead our football team.
Hanson: But your job is to make the football team as good as it can be, and that sometimes includes changing personnel. Is that still on the table? A trade?
McDaniels: Every decision we make is based on trying to do what's best for the football team in order for us to win and improve. That's always going to be the way that this job is. This was just a very highly-publicized situation that was brought to the forefront. (Cutler) is obviously one of our better players, our best players. He's a good leader and we're looking forward to having him back here with us.
Hanson: You really feel that the relationship is not irreparable?
McDaniels: I absolutely feel that it is not irreparable.
Hanson: Is it a lack of communication? Have you been able to put your finger on what's gone wrong so far?
McDaniels: It's just a situation that came up. I think there are some things out there that are not necessarily true, and there are some other things that are definitely true. We have to work through those things are make sure that the lines of communication stay open. I think that's the biggest thing, in terms of getting over any kind of an issue that a player may have with an organization or a coach. It's the same thing that (the organization) has to do when there is an issue with a player. We want to come directly to (the player) and work through it and communicate to find a common ground that we can start going forward and working toward a good resolution.
Hanson: What's not true? You stated that there were some things (in the situation with Cutler) that were not true. We can clear that up right now.
McDaniels: There are just things that I think have been out there that make for good stories. Was there something that occurred right at the beginning of free agency? Sure, there was. There were conversations and that's really where it kind of ends. There wasn't anything that came across (Pat) Bowlen's desk, there wasn't anything that we were trying to push hard to get through. It never even got to (Bowlen). Conversations were had and we've never denied that, but at the same time it's our job to look at every opportunity that we can to see if it's something that could improve our football team and that's what we were doing.
Hanson: You have talked to (Cutler) since then. There are reports of a conference call and a face-to-face meeting. Can you confirm that?
McDaniels: Yes, we have.
Hanson: Do you feel that Cutler understands where you and the franchise are coming from right now?
McDaniels: I hope so. We haven't held anything back. I think the big thing is that we need to continue to communicate and I'd love to have the opportunity to continue to meet with Cutler face-to-face. I think that's the best type of communication at this point to try to work toward a resolution.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:27 PM
Yeah!, I do want boring!
I want Cutler as a Bronco!
I want Shanahan as a Bronco...but unfortunately...I'm not Pat Bowlen.
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 09:28 PM
so, you aren't a fan of the new BearsForums.com (http://www.BearsForums.com)? ;)
That place is awesome if your idea of a good time is ripping the skin off your hand and shoving it into a bucket full of salt, then rinsing it with lemon juice. So yeah, I like it just fine.
getlynched47
04-24-2009, 09:28 PM
Maybe we can NOT start threads about Cutler...I dunno...maybe...
I'll do my part and not make Cutler threads.
But that doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion on it all.
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 09:29 PM
I'll do my part and not make Cutler threads.
But that doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion on it all.
Yes it does. You go back to your tinker toys while the adults talk. :lol:
Yeah!, I do want boring!
I want Cutler as a Bronco!
I want Shanahan as a Bronco...but unfortunately...I'm not Pat Bowlen.
With that Avvy, I thought you were actually Bowlen posting under a pen name...
getlynched47
04-24-2009, 09:30 PM
Yes it does. You go back to your tinker toys while the adults talk. :lol:
--->:coffee:
chew on that :beer:
horsepig
04-24-2009, 09:30 PM
Just where in the Hell was Cutler when McKid was introduced as our new HC? The Bahamas? Nashville? Memphis? The no phone zone even.
This is not the day of Johnny U. & Bart Starr. The players now make more $ than most small businesses/yr. Don't you want to work with your receivers in the "offseason"?
Cutler is no diffetrent than the CEO of some broke assed company that wants his big $$ "you're out of here $30 million payoff for not producing squat" crap. These people suck and are leaches.
Jake produced big time with an ever decling defense (see the 05 AFC Championship game), yet gets little credit for being a decent QB. Jake had his weaknesses, but he was the best we've had since Elway.
That place is awesome if your idea of a good time is ripping the skin off your hand and shoving it into a bucket full of salt, then rinsing it with lemon juice. So yeah, I like it just fine.
How did you know what I did to toughen my hands up before a five day golf marathon? You got cameras in my house??? :mad:
Lonestar
04-24-2009, 09:31 PM
I believe Jay's agent denies this, just like McDaniels denies that they did anything but take calls, while many NFL "insiders" (whatever the heck that means) say that McDaniels did far more than just field calls.
Bottom line, you can't believe either group, all you can look at is results. How many other teams have had their head coach, new or old, alienate their QB.
If by alienate you mean give him the cold hard facts that he is their QB, (numerous times) and that they would do what was best for the franchise then I guess your correct..
What the hell else should he do besides kiss his ass on 16th street at HIGH NOON..?
Nothing less than a fat new contract $100,000,000.00 PLUS would have appeased him..
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 09:32 PM
--->:coffee:
chew on that :beer:
I notice your little coffee guy drinks with his pinky up. That how they do things in your part of town, Nancy? :cool:
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:32 PM
Just where in the Hell was Cutler when McKid was introduced as our new HC? The Bahamas? Nashville? Memphis? The no phone zone even.
This is not the day of Johnny U. & Bart Starr. The players now make more $ than most small businesses/yr. Don't you want to work with your receivers in the "offseason"?
Cutler is no diffetrent than the CEO of some broke assed company that wants his big $$ "you're out of here $30 million payoff for not producing squat" crap. These people suck and are leaches.
Jake produced big time with an ever decling defense (see the 05 AFC Championship game), yet gets little credit for being a decent QB. Jake had his weaknesses, but he was the best we've had since Elway.
Not in my opinion.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:32 PM
well. yeah. I DO blame him. Absolutely.
I do blame any coach that comes to a team, trades away a GOOD QB for a guy thats a career back-up. I've seen it happen time and time and time in the NFL with players having a good season off the bench. TONS of QBs have gotten starting jobs because of how they performed coming off the bench for the perennial starter. Scott Mitchell, Hostetler, King, Blake, Pederson.. just to name a few off the top of my head.
Even Walsh commented (before passing) on the trend for new coaches coming in and attempting to replace good QBs with "their guy" simply because they didn't draft them. I get that McDaniels wanted his guy so that he didn't have to concentrate on coaching teh offense. I GET how it would make things easier for this first year. But ONLY that first year. After that, then you are purely playing with a weaker player. So yes.. I blame him for wanting that.
Well regardless if you solely blame the coach or not, our team is better because of it.
We can now focus on bringing in a leader ( Orton ) or whoever (if ) we draft a QB. Focus on the Defense and stop focusing everything on a QB who hasn't done JACK for the team since coming here.
getlynched47
04-24-2009, 09:32 PM
I notice your little coffee guy drinks with his pinky up. That how they do things in your part of town, Nancy? :cool:
:laugh: Got me there.:salute:
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 09:34 PM
:laugh: Got me there.:salute:
And by not posting anything related to the topic for two pages, I have totally OWNED THIS THREAD!
Goodnight everyone.:beer:
horsepig
04-24-2009, 09:34 PM
Cutler can sit on his helmet on the Bears sideline & pout all he ewants, good riddance, I want a QB with some heart and leadership, and maybe a little better decision making capability.
getlynched47
04-24-2009, 09:34 PM
And by not posting anything related to the topic for two pages, I have totally OWNED THIS THREAD!
Goodnight everyone.:beer:
:werd: straight up pwnd it!! :rockon:
Lonestar
04-24-2009, 09:36 PM
Yep, until Orton is as good in his 'system' as he says he will be, and gets at least three very good players from those three draft picks, this will be a major topic.
Winning cures all. If McDaniels goes out in 2009 and wins while playing possibly the toughest schedule anyone will have in '09, then much of this will be put to rest. Short of that, we are going to be looking at how Cutler is playing, and how the two firsts and a third pan out.
A few die hard jaysus fans will be the rest of us will be rooting for the Broncos at least I will be..
If by alienate you mean give him the cold hard facts that he is their QB, (numerous times) and that they would do what was best for the franchise then I guess your correct..
What the hell else should he do besides kiss his ass on 16th street at HIGH NOON..?
Nothing less than a fat new contract $100,000,000.00 PLUS would have appeased him..
Start by not trying to trade for a one year wonder in Cassel. Then, whether it is true or not, say, "Jay, you are my QB. I came to Denver mostly because of the chance to work for you. I got caught up in the moment, when I was offered a chance to work with Matt again, who is a friend and a QB I worked with for four years, for that I'm sorry. I want you to know that I still feel the way I did when I took this job, I think you can lead us to the SB, and there is zero chance I will trade you."
As opposed to, "Jay, your my QB, but nobody on the team is untradeable. Any player can be traded if it makes the team better."
As a 'boss', you don't have to prove your authority with your words, with subtle threats of what could happen. His job is to motivate and mange egos. He clearly failed.
I know you can't see that, because any world without Shanahan or 'his guy' is a koolaid/rose colored world, but those are the facts, my friend.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:37 PM
Start by not trying to trade for a one year wonder in Cassel.
Proof, please?
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:38 PM
Well regardless if you solely blame the coach or not, our team is better because of it.
We can now focus on bringing in a leader ( Orton ) or whoever (if ) we draft a QB. Focus on the Defense and stop focusing everything on a QB who hasn't done JACK for the team since coming here.
I actually think he DID do 'jack' for this team. I actually think that we don't win 8 games without him... and certainly KNOW that Orton couldn't have won 8 if we tied the other team UP last two years with our defense. I certainly don't think our team is 'better' without our best player on the roster.
But... as I've said before. I'm going to support Orton because he's the guy on the field. I supported Plummer when he was on the field, but didn't like that HE was our starting QB. I'll root for Orton, but know that we aren't as good with him there instead of Cutler.. and KNOW that I'm not entertained at ALLLLL watching Kyle Orton line up behind center.
A few die hard jaysus fans will be the rest of us will be rooting for the Broncos at least I will be..
I don't get the silly name stuff. Jaysus, St. Jake, etc. Why can't people make points without name calling??? :confused:
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:39 PM
Start by not trying to trade for a one year wonder in Cassel. Then, whether it is true or not, say, "Jay, you are my QB. I came to Denver mostly because of the chance to work for you. I got caught up in the moment, when I was offered a chance to work with Matt again, who is a friend and a QB I worked with for four years, for that I'm sorry. I want you to know that I still feel the way I did when I took this job, I think you can lead us to the SB, and there is zero chance I will trade you."
.
Ya, maybe he should have said that....then Cutler would have maybe understood where McD was coming from. Especially after pouting about the Shanahan firing and Bates being let go. If anyone should understand the relationship/friendship between an HC/OC/QB it should have been Cutler.
Proof, please?
I'm sorry, your security clearance doesn't allow me to provide you with my sourced material.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:40 PM
I actually think he DID do 'jack' for this team. I actually think that we don't win 8 games without him... and certainly KNOW that Orton couldn't have won 8 if we tied the other team UP last two years with our defense. I certainly don't think our team is 'better' without our best player on the roster.
But... as I've said before. I'm going to support Orton because he's the guy on the field. I supported Plummer when he was on the field, but didn't like that HE was our starting QB. I'll root for Orton, but know that we aren't as good with him there instead of Cutler.. and KNOW that I'm not entertained at ALLLLL watching Kyle Orton line up behind center.
Fair enough
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:40 PM
I don't get the silly name stuff. Jaysus, St. Jake, etc. Why can't people make points without name calling??? :confused:
heh.. thats Jr's trademark..... porti$$$.. hell, he called Cutler "Cutlet" the day of the draft. Its what he do ;)
Ya, maybe he should have said that....then Cutler would have maybe understood where McD was coming from. Especially after pouting about the Shanahan firing and Bates being let go. If anyone should understand the relationship/friendship between an HC/OC/QB it should have been Cutler.
Did you mean, if anyone should have known, it was McDaniels? As the HC, and OC and QB coach, he of all people knows the delicate position Cutler was in with his HC/Mentor gone, and his friend/QB coach who had just taken over play calling, gone. McDaniels needed to get in their and say, "I understand. We've pulled the rug out from underneath you Jay, but give me a chance, I will be your biggest supporter, and together we can make this offense rock..."
Denver Native (Carol)
04-24-2009, 09:43 PM
Start by not trying to trade for a one year wonder in Cassel. Then, whether it is true or not, say, "Jay, you are my QB. I came to Denver mostly because of the chance to work for you. I got caught up in the moment, when I was offered a chance to work with Matt again, who is a friend and a QB I worked with for four years, for that I'm sorry. I want you to know that I still feel the way I did when I took this job, I think you can lead us to the SB, and there is zero chance I will trade you."
As opposed to, "Jay, your my QB, but nobody on the team is untradeable. Any player can be traded if it makes the team better."
As a 'boss', you don't have to prove your authority with your words, with subtle threats of what could happen. His job is to motivate and mange egos. He clearly failed.
I know you can't see that, because any world without Shanahan or 'his guy' is a koolaid/rose colored world, but those are the facts, my friend.
If this is true:
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=638779&postcount=118
heh.. thats Jr's trademark..... porti$$$.. hell, he called Cutler "Cutlet" the day of the draft. Its what he do ;)
It's one of those things that for years, on this board and BM/BC, has created many hard feelings. It's a pet peave of mine, whether it be related to presidential candidates or Broncos QB's. It's just something people do to try and inflame those that don't agree with their position, rather than simply debating the points.
If this is true:
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=638779&postcount=118
Prior to that interview, when things were spiraling out of control, McDaniels wouldn't say it. He just stuck with Jay is our QB, NOW, and things like that.
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 09:46 PM
Great counter argument. I'll bump it up to a D- for lack of originality.
only thing lacking is a realization of how good a qb jay cutler was to this organization.
your only arguments are either
a.)jay cutler is whining.
or
b.) jay is the sole reason why we went 8-8 with one of the worst defenses in history.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:48 PM
only thing lacking is a realization of how good a qb jay cutler was to this organization.
your only arguments are either
a.)jay cutler is whining.
or
b.) jay is the sole reason why we went 8-8 with one of the worst defenses in history.
So what's your argument?
Three years. No playoffs? What excuse do you have?
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:49 PM
Prior to that interview, when things were spiraling out of control, McDaniels wouldn't say it. He just stuck with Jay is our QB, NOW, and things like that.
and even in that interview, when he HAD the chance to say 'yes, Jay is our QB of the future".. he refused to say it. He instead let his ego AGAIN come into play and say " we can't predict the future"... as if EVERYONE in the world doesn't already know this. It his inability to SAY that Jay was the future of this team that let EVERYONE know when hearing it that he was NOT committing to Jay at all... period (as his words stated in the interview).
It was plain as day when he said it "no one can predict the future".. he was literally saying "I'm not going to make a commitment".... why would Jay want to make that comitment if the coach himself couldn't do it?
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 09:49 PM
i met a few bears fans in the airport yesterday. they are so estatic to have cutler as their new qb. all of them didnt think it was too much to give up for him. i think jay really will like it in chi-town.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:49 PM
If this is true:
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=638779&postcount=118
Thanks for the reminder Carol...
SOunds like McD wanted Cutler...original reports/speculation was blown out of proportion, and after that Cutler ran with it and wasn't able to deal with it.
Not sure how much point blank McD could have been. Especially if NOTHING ever went across Bowlen's desk to begin with. That leads me to believe that if McD wanted to initiate the trade talks, he would have needed Bowlen's blessing in doing so.
If by alienate you mean give him the cold hard facts that he is their QB, (numerous times) and that they would do what was best for the franchise then I guess your correct..
What the hell else should he do besides kiss his ass on 16th street at HIGH NOON..?
Nothing less than a fat new contract $100,000,000.00 PLUS would have appeased him..
http://www.dailycomet.com/article/20090405/OPINION01/904049922/-1/MOBILE?Title=Cutler-trade-shakes-up-NFC-North
In 2002 when NFL Hall of Fame and former San Francisco 49ers coach Bill Walsh visited New Orleans to give a motivational speech, he told me that the worst thing a first-year coach can do is alienate the star player when he arrives.
“I see young head coaches today and see this sort of ‘takeover mentality’ and normally that means to tie yourself to the coach’s version of a star player,” Walsh said. “Instead of trying to work with the star performer who is on the team, they try and manufacture one themselves. On a team, especially a veteran team, that is a trickle-down effect that normally is not good for an organization.
“If you have the apparatus in place to replace that star player it could possibly work, but just watch today how young coaches handle their star players. It is amazing to think that you relate and treat the star player the same way you do a normal player. Normally when you have a bad relationship with that top player the coach doesn’t succeed.”
and even in that interview, when he HAD the chance to say 'yes, Jay is our QB of the future".. he refused to say it. He instead let his ego AGAIN come into play and say " we can't predict the future"... as if EVERYONE in the world doesn't already know this. It his inability to SAY that Jay was the future of this team that let EVERYONE know when hearing it that he was NOT committing to Jay at all... period (as his words stated in the interview).
It was plain as day when he said it "no one can predict the future".. he was literally saying "I'm not going to make a commitment".... why would Jay want to make that comitment if the coach himself couldn't do it?
****, I'm getting a little queasy, you and I are on the same side of a debate for the first time in our illustrious history, and I am not sure how to handle it. ;)
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 09:52 PM
and even in that interview, when he HAD the chance to say 'yes, Jay is our QB of the future".. he refused to say it. He instead let his ego AGAIN come into play and say " we can't predict the future"... as if EVERYONE in the world doesn't already know this. It his inability to SAY that Jay was the future of this team that let EVERYONE know when hearing it that he was NOT committing to Jay at all... period (as his words stated in the interview).
It was plain as day when he said it "no one can predict the future".. he was literally saying "I'm not going to make a commitment".... why would Jay want to make that comitment if the coach himself couldn't do it?
Did you even read it?
Hanson: Do you see him as the quarterback of the Denver Broncos?
McDaniels: Yes. He's our quarterback.
Hanson: Present-tense.
McDaniels: He's our quarterback. Period.
Hanson: Future-tense? He will be your quarterback?
McDaniels: He's our quarterback. We can't predict the future. He's our quarterback, we want him to be our quarterback, we made that very clear to him and we hope he feels the same way.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 09:52 PM
i met a few bears fans in the airport yesterday. they are so estatic to have cutler as their new qb. all of them didnt think it was too much to give up for him. i think jay really will like it in chi-town.
LOL...talk to me after he throws 2 INTs at Minnesota on Nov. 29...
Apparently, he's in with all the interweb semi-porn stars, too...
i met a few bears fans in the airport yesterday. they are so estatic to have cutler as their new qb. all of them didnt think it was too much to give up for him. i think jay really will like it in chi-town.
Yea, I talked to my buddy in Chicago a couple weeks ago and he said everyone is VERY happy about Cutler. Said some talk radio guys are saying they gave up too much, but the fans are happy to get the first real QB that the Bears have had in decades. They are worried about not having receivers, but feel Cutler can make them winners.
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 09:55 PM
So what's your argument?
Three years. No playoffs? What excuse do you have?
why even argue with you. ive seen your blind remarks as well. if you think we were 8-8 because of jay alone your highly mistaken.
3rd in the league in dropped passes yet 2nd in the league in total offense. you blame the offense for being 16th in scoring but how about our wr's learn how to catch the ball and how about we get a rb that can stay healthy. its hard to score in the redzone when the defense knows your going to throw every play.
tatum bell??? hahahahahahahaa!!! i hear he looked for a job at sprint in the denver airport. however after knowing he has a luggage problem he wont get the job.
you always FAIL to address the issues on defense. i dont even want to rehash that. it will get no where....clearly your not capable of seeing that so why try?
Lonestar
04-24-2009, 09:56 PM
i met a few bears fans in the airport yesterday. they are so estatic to have cutler as their new qb. all of them didnt think it was too much to give up for him. i think jay really will like it in chi-town.
until he finds out that all those things that made him a one year wonder are back in DEN.. mikey running his restaurant, Marshall, Royal, Scheffler, Stokely, Hillis..etal..
then he will force passes like he did in DEN and the Bear fans are going to boo him unlike any he has had before.. I hear they have his spot on the bench marked pouting zone already painted..
ahahahahahahaha
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 09:58 PM
Yea, I talked to my buddy in Chicago a couple weeks ago and he said everyone is VERY happy about Cutler. Said some talk radio guys are saying they gave up too much, but the fans are happy to get the first real QB that the Bears have had in decades. They are worried about not having receivers, but feel Cutler can make them winners.
i seriously think cutler makes wr's better. thats why we have had so many no names or lower tiered players come in and they all end up looking great!
my cousin, who is a bears fan called me today and he is hoping they end up trying to deal their 2nd plus a 2010 for boldin or edwards. id really like to see cutler get a guy with the same abilities as bmarsh.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 09:58 PM
Did you even read it?
Hanson: Do you see him as the quarterback of the Denver Broncos?
McDaniels: Yes. He's our quarterback.
Hanson: Present-tense.
McDaniels: He's our quarterback. Period.
Hanson: Future-tense? He will be your quarterback?
McDaniels: He's our quarterback. We can't predict the future. He's our quarterback, we want him to be our quarterback, we made that very clear to him and we hope he feels the same way.
Yes.. I read it. I also saw and heard it. I remember the context of that interview, when it was given and HOW he sounded when stating that sentence.
I remember thinking, at the time, WHY didn't he just SAY YES????? WHY didn't he say "YES.. Jay is our QB now and our QB of the future. He's the team's QB?" WHy not? Why not take THAT opportunity to say it? Instead, he spoke the words and said "we can't predict the future".. when SPECIFICALLY asked if Jay was the QB of the future??? Whey?? What kind of ego would make you say that??
RIGHT then, when hearing it, knowing the time at the interview.. .. he just TOLD Jay Cutler through the interview that he was NOT commiting to Jay. I heard it. I saw and heard it in his face and through his words AT THE TIME... and of course Jay saw the same thing. WHy would Jay (or anyone) feel that the coach was committed to the QB when he was BLATANTLY saying he was NOT committed to the future with Jay?
horsepig
04-24-2009, 09:59 PM
Start by not trying to trade for a one year wonder in Cassel. Then, whether it is true or not, say, "Jay, you are my QB. I came to Denver mostly because of the chance to work for you. I got caught up in the moment, when I was offered a chance to work with Matt again, who is a friend and a QB I worked with for four years, for that I'm sorry. I want you to know that I still feel the way I did when I took this job, I think you can lead us to the SB, and there is zero chance I will trade you."
As opposed to, "Jay, your my QB, but nobody on the team is untradeable. Any player can be traded if it makes the team better."
As a 'boss', you don't have to prove your authority with your words, with subtle threats of what could happen. His job is to motivate and mange egos. He clearly failed.
I know you can't see that, because any world without Shanahan or 'his guy' is a koolaid/rose colored world, but those are the facts, my friend.
Why does the HC have to kowtow to some employee. Tell the kid the truth! Nobody on this team is untouchable. We will pursue any avenue to improve our team, period. Very few men in the history of the NFL were ever untradeable and Cutler sure as hell aint in that company.
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 09:59 PM
until he finds out that all those things that made him a one year wonder are back in DEN.. mikey running his restaurant, Marshall, Royal, Scheffler, Stokely, Hillis..etal..
then he will force passes like he did in DEN and the Bear fans are going to boo him unlike any he has had before.. I hear they have his spot on the bench marked pouting zone already painted..
ahahahahahahaha
i hear they have a RB named matt forte and actually have a defense.
buaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 09:59 PM
until he finds out that all those things that made him a one year wonder are back in DEN.. mikey running his restaurant, Marshall, Royal, Scheffler, Stokely, Hillis..etal..
then he will force passes like he did in DEN and the Bear fans are going to boo him unlike any he has had before.. I hear they have his spot on the bench marked pouting zone already painted..
ahahahahahahaha
You'll have to excuse my friend Jrwiz, he's had a little too much cognac tonight.;)
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 10:00 PM
i hear they have a RB named matt forte and actually have a defense.
buaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Stop tickling me!
ahhahahahhahahhhahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahahaha!
nevcraw
04-24-2009, 10:00 PM
If by alienate you mean give him the cold hard facts that he is their QB, (numerous times) and that they would do what was best for the franchise then I guess your correct..
What the hell else should he do besides kiss his ass on 16th street at HIGH NOON..?
Nothing less than a fat new contract $100,000,000.00 PLUS would have appeased him..
funny how money was never was once brought up.. ever..
JR - who's your next boogie man going to be after the cutler things disipates? my money is on MCD if he does not win quickly..
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:01 PM
****, I'm getting a little queasy, you and I are on the same side of a debate for the first time in our illustrious history, and I am not sure how to handle it. ;)
heh.. I know. kinda weird
i seriously think cutler makes wr's better. thats why we have had so many no names or lower tiered players come in and they all end up looking great!
my cousin, who is a bears fan called me today and he is hoping they end up trying to deal their 2nd plus a 2010 for boldin or edwards. id really like to see cutler get a guy with the same abilities as bmarsh.
I didn't watch much of Chicago. What I saw, Hester didn't look too hot, but they have a couple good TE's. If they get one real good receiver, draft or Boldin, they could be solid. I think they need some pass protection, but then again Cutler spent a year and a half running for his life with the Broncos and four in college, so he knows how to do that.
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 10:02 PM
heh.. I know. kinda weird
whats this world coming to?
anyone else getting all warm and fuzzy inside?
broncos9697
04-24-2009, 10:02 PM
[QUO
how ,the same way you let cassel go...same numbers...uh....tell me
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 10:02 PM
Yes.. I read it. I also saw and heard it. I remember the context of that interview, when it was given and HOW he sounded when stating that sentence.
I remember thinking, at the time, WHY didn't he just SAY YES????? WHY didn't he say "YES.. Jay is our QB now and our QB of the future. He's the team's QB?" McDaniels: Yes. He's our quarterback.McDaniels: He's our quarterback. Period.He's our quarterback, we want him to be our quarterback, we made that very clear to him and we hope he feels the same way.
WHy not? Why not take THAT opportunity to say it? Instead, he spoke the words and said "we can't predict the future".. when SPECIFICALLY asked if Jay was the QB of the future??? Whey?? What kind of ego would make you say that??
RIGHT then, when hearing it, knowing the time at the interview.. .. he just TOLD Jay Cutler through the interview that he was NOT commiting to Jay. I heard it. I saw and heard it in his face and through his words AT THE TIME... and of course Jay saw the same thing. WHy would Jay (or anyone) feel that the coach was committed to the QB when he was BLATANTLY saying he was NOT committed to the future with Jay?
:confused:
Maybe I am missing something here, but thats 3 times right there.
Rav, you are thinking, hearing, and believing whatever you want to believe but its NOT what was actually said. You can't just pick and choose what you want to hear and disregard what you don't want to hear.
MasterShake
04-24-2009, 10:03 PM
whats this world coming to?
anyone else getting all warm and fuzzy inside?
I am, but I think its the 7 layer nachos I just ate.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 10:03 PM
funny how money was never was once brought up.. ever..
JR - who's your next boogie man going to be after the cutler things disipates? my money is on MCD if he does not win quickly..
If I recall, it was brought up the minute the "Bus" got into town in Chicago.
Why does the HC have to kowtow to some employee. Tell the kid the truth! Nobody on this team is untouchable. We will pursue any avenue to improve our team, period. Very few men in the history of the NFL were ever untradeable and Cutler sure as hell aint in that company.
Actually, most men in the history of the NFL were untradeable, at least until the twighlight of their career. That's why Denver has been part of two of the biggest trades in NFL history, Champ and now Cutler. It is nearly unheard of to trade a star player in his prime or entering his prime. The trade of cutler was pretty near unprecedented, and the only thing even close that anyone could come up with was the Jeff George trade.
By the way, it isn't kowtowing, it is managing. It is the boss not putting his ego first, but instead checking it at the door and doing what is best for the company/organization.
horsepig
04-24-2009, 10:05 PM
until he finds out that all those things that made him a one year wonder are back in DEN.. mikey running his restaurant, Marshall, Royal, Scheffler, Stokely, Hillis..etal..
then he will force passes like he did in DEN and the Bear fans are going to boo him unlike any he has had before.. I hear they have his spot on the bench marked pouting zone already painted..
ahahahahahahaha
Geeze JR, don't forget Clady, etal.
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 10:06 PM
I didn't watch much of Chicago. What I saw, Hester didn't look too hot, but they have a couple good TE's. If they get one real good receiver, draft or Boldin, they could be solid. I think they need some pass protection, but then again Cutler spent a year and a half running for his life with the Broncos and four in college, so he knows how to do that.
their wr's are horrid! think of us with keary colbert and sammy parker as our starters then you will get the picture.
hester really belongs in the slot.
Lonestar
04-24-2009, 10:07 PM
i hear they have a RB named matt forte and actually have a defense.
buaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I know that having Matt forte was almost as good as all 8 of our RB's and their once vaunted defense is a mere shadow of its former self..
Look I hope he makes them into a Superbowl contender in 2010 until then I want a top ten pick in 2009..
But from what I have seen of jay, he is not going to be the franchise QB that everyone here seems to think he was..
Lets leave it at that.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:08 PM
why even argue with you. ive seen your blind remarks as well. if you think we were 8-8 because of jay alone your highly mistaken.
3rd in the league in dropped passes yet 2nd in the league in total offense. you blame the offense for being 16th in scoring but how about our wr's learn how to catch the ball and how about we get a rb that can stay healthy. its hard to score in the redzone when the defense knows your going to throw every play.
tatum bell??? hahahahahahahaa!!! i hear he looked for a job at sprint in the denver airport. however after knowing he has a luggage problem he wont get the job.
you always FAIL to address the issues on defense. i dont even want to rehash that. it will get no where....clearly your not capable of seeing that so why try?
All three years were NOTHING to do with Cutler? Three years. Three failed attempts at reaching the playoffs by Jay Cutler.
Like it or not, quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses. He was 17-20 in Denver. He got a coach fired, the new coach pondered some offers from other teams, which isn't astounding by any means as some want to think it is, and after the player decided he wouldn't cooperate with management the player was let go.
If Jay Cutler was the savior you think he is, he would have overcome all these problems, especially the three-game lead he led his team to, AND especially the rift HE created between him and management. Like it or not, Cutler created the rift, not McDaniels and not Bowlen.
All of the glory, none of the responsibility. Typical excuse.
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 10:10 PM
All three years were NOTHING to do with Cutler? Three years. Three failed attempts at reaching the playoffs by Jay Cutler.
Like it or not, quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses. He was 17-20 in Denver. He got a coach fired, the new coach pondered some offers from other teams, which isn't astounding by any means as some want to think it is, and after the player decided he wouldn't cooperate with management the player was let go.
If Jay Cutler was the savior you think he is, he would have overcome all these problems, especially the three-game lead he led his team to, AND especially the rift HE created between him and management. Like it or not, Cutler created the rift, not McDaniels and not Bowlen.
All of the glory, none of the responsibility. Typical excuse.
ALL 3 years were NOTHING with Champ Bailey.
NOTHING!!!
btw....Jay played 2 1/2 years. kthnxby
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:11 PM
:confused:
Maybe I am missing something here, but thats 3 times right there.
Rav, you are thinking, hearing, and believing whatever you want to believe but its NOT what was actually said. You can't just pick and choose what you want to hear and disregard what you don't want to hear.
I dont' think so WTM.. because I remember WATCHING that interview. It does lose some things in the written version.. but if you read, he NEVER makes a commitment to Jay. He literally says "Jay is our QB".. but REFUSES to say "Jay is our QB of the future".. "Jay is our QB, period." "Jay is under contract.."... but when ASKED if jay was the future... he doesn't say yes.
When you watch it, and hear it, and SEE that the interviewer was trying to get him to commit, or say, or SOMETHING that would indicate that McDaniels wasn't just playing with the wording.. the interviewer pointed it out right away "thats future tense".. Not letting mcdaniels simply say a word and get away with semantics. He POINTED it out to McDaniels and FORCE him to say one way or the other... IS JAY YOUR FUTURE?? "no one can predict the future..."
Well thats just great. If you were a person.. an employee... and heard your boss say that about you when you heard if you had a job tomorrow? What would you hear? Well, he has a job today...no one can predict the future.
When you are a player that just saw you try and trade me, and then want me to feel CONFIDENT that you aren't just lying to my face AGAIN.. why would you believe this as some kind of statement of confidence?? Would you take it that way?? No.
McDaniels was purposely telling Jay that he wasn't making commitment... he was SAYING "everyone s tradeable".. when that statement DOESN'T have to be made... ESPECIALLy in this context and time.
If nothing else.. if you are going to LIE (like he did all along before this).. THIS would be THE time to fib... "yes, Jay is our future QB"... and leave out the obvious "no one can predict the future" junk. That didn't have to be said AT ALL.. for NO reason. There was NOTHING gained by that comment, OTHER than to let his ego come out and once again, tell Jay, EVERYONE IS TRADABLE... an obvious statement that can be left to another time.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:12 PM
ALL 3 years were NOTHING with Champ Bailey.
NOTHING!!!
Champ Bailey didn't play quarterback.
Sucks to be Jay Cutler.
Unfortunately, quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses. Jay Cutler failed.
All three years were NOTHING to do with Cutler? Three years. Three failed attempts at reaching the playoffs by Jay Cutler.
Like it or not, quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses. He was 17-20 in Denver. He got a coach fired, the new coach pondered some offers from other teams, which isn't astounding by any means as some want to think it is, and after the player decided he wouldn't cooperate with management the player was let go.
If Jay Cutler was the savior you think he is, he would have overcome all these problems, especially the three-game lead he led his team to, AND especially the rift HE created between him and management. Like it or not, Cutler created the rift, not McDaniels and not Bowlen.
All of the glory, none of the responsibility. Typical excuse.
When Jake was the QB, QB's weren't judged by wins and losses, because that nearly 75% winning percentage were 'team wins'.
I don't know what side of that argument you fell on, so this isn't aimed at you, just a general comment. It's funny how the wins/losses being a QB or team thing change based on who's making the argument.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:12 PM
ALL 3 years were NOTHING with Champ Bailey.
NOTHING!!!
btw....Jay played 2 1/2 years. kthnxby
In cased you noticed...we were in position to make the playoffs when he took over.
FAIL!
Unfortunately, quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses. Jay Cutler failed.
Very, very, very simplistic analysis.
nevcraw
04-24-2009, 10:13 PM
All three years were NOTHING to do with Cutler? Three years. Three failed attempts at reaching the playoffs by Jay Cutler.
Like it or not, quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses. He was 17-20 in Denver. He got a coach fired, the new coach pondered some offers from other teams, which isn't astounding by any means as some want to think it is, and after the player decided he wouldn't cooperate with management the player was let go.
If Jay Cutler was the savior you think he is, he would have overcome all these problems, especially the three-game lead he led his team to, AND especially the rift HE created between him and management. Like it or not, Cutler created the rift, not McDaniels and not Bowlen.
All of the glory, none of the responsibility. Typical excuse.
Like it or not, quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses. - only by simple minded people who cannot read between the lines..
you are spinning right off the planet.. I cannot believe you that actually believe what you just typed..
Cutler did not get a coach fired>> Cutler did not play Defense or ST. MCdaniles created the rift the minute he lied about his non involment with the cassell trade and cutler new otherwise.. this is not opinion thid is hidtory now.. factual history..
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:14 PM
When Jake was the QB, QB's weren't judged by wins and losses, because that nearly 75% winning percentage were 'team wins'.
I don't know what side of that argument you fell on, so this isn't aimed at you, just a general comment. It's funny how the wins/losses being a QB or team thing change based on who's making the argument.
They weren't judged on wins and losses? Plummer got us into the playoffs and got us to the AFC Championship game. He did not, for all his faults, orchestrate the WORST collapse in NFL history.
I fell on Plummer's side...he won..again, and again...and then I said, OK, its Cutler's job now...and NOW, Cutler has failed, miserably.
In cased you noticed...we were in position to make the playoffs when he took over.
FAIL!
I was against Jay taking over the reigns, but the team was already in a free fall before Jay took over. Wilson was hurt, the defense had been dominant with 'luck' early in the season, and while they started out appearing to be record setters, that house of cards collapsed by mid season.
Lonestar
04-24-2009, 10:15 PM
funny how money was never was once brought up.. ever..
JR - who's your next boogie man going to be after the cutler things disipates? my money is on MCD if he does not win quickly..
then you were not paying real close attention as it was always about the money..
as for Josh I do not have the irrational thought that he has to win right away..
This team should have been blown up last year.. the D has sucked for almost a decade since Robinson left.. and then it was not great..
almost no attention has been paid to the defense since the trade for Champ and he was supposed to be the Saviour..
all mikey wanted to do was win with a make shift defense manned by hand me downs and a great offense..
now mikey is gone and from what I have seen and heard from Josh he has a plan to win all three phases of the game.. However:
I expect this next year to be 4-12 with alot of luck.. and 8 to 9 wins the year after and 2011-14 to be gang busters if they can make some really great choices the next few days..
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 10:16 PM
In cased you noticed...we were in position to make the playoffs when he took over.
FAIL!
in case you didnt notice we were in position to make the playoffs the last 3 games last year and our defense blew it!
EPIC FAIL!!!
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:16 PM
- only by simple minded people who cannot read between the lines..
you are spinning right off the planet.. I cannot believe you that actually believe what you just typed..
Cutler did not get a coach fired>> Cutler did not play Defense or ST. MCdaniles created the rift the minute he lied about his non involment with the cassell trade and cutler new otherwise.. this is not opinion thid is hidtory now.. factual history..
After you learn to type, let's realize a few things. McDaniels never lied to anyone. And while you're at it, can you prove that to me?
He lied?
Where?
:swingingfromcutlersnutslikeabitch:
horsepig
04-24-2009, 10:16 PM
Actually, most men in the history of the NFL were untradeable, at least until the twighlight of their career. That's why Denver has been part of two of the biggest trades in NFL history, Champ and now Cutler. It is nearly unheard of to trade a star player in his prime or entering his prime. The trade of cutler was pretty near unprecedented, and the only thing even close that anyone could come up with was the Jeff George trade.
By the way, it isn't kowtowing, it is managing. It is the boss not putting his ego first, but instead checking it at the door and doing what is best for the company/organization.
Points taken T. But you are ignoring the other side of this: the trouble maker. JC made little effort to live and die in Denver and with his teammates. As I've sais, this is not a game anymore, except to us fans. JC could want all the reassurances possible, doesn't really matter, you have join the program or leave and he left. He did ask to be dealt.
You don't think the Herschel Walker trade was one of the blockbusters of all time?
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 10:16 PM
ALL 3 years were NOTHING with Champ Bailey.
NOTHING!!!
btw....Jay played 2 1/2 years. kthnxby
Oh boy...here we go.
Does Champ touch the ball, call the plays in the huddle, audible to another play at the line of scrimmage, make decisions with the ball in his hand on every defensive play?
LIKE IT OR NOT.....THE QB IS JUDGED BY HIS RECORD!! FACT!!
Jay was 17-20 as a starter. FACT.
If JAY led this team to an 8-5 record with a 3 game lead with 3 to play, then JAY lost a 3 game lead with 3 to play.
Jay is not a winner. NEver has been, never will be. 11 winning games in college in 4 years. Does not know HOW to win..does not know how to raise the level of players around him. Does not know how to conduct himself in an adult manner on or off the field. A "true" franchise QB knows how to win. To make something out of nothing. To raise the level of play around him and knows how to conduct himself on and off the field. Jay does not have any of those qualities.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:17 PM
in case you didnt notice we were in position to make the playoffs the last 3 games last year and our defense blew it!
EPIC FAIL!!!
Who was the quarterback?
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:17 PM
Funny.. I judge a player based on the play on the field rather than the stat sheet. I know that Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are not better than Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.......
then you were not paying real close attention as it was always about the money..
To quote MO, "source?"
Beyond your 'guess', how can you say it was always about money?
Denver Native (Carol)
04-24-2009, 10:18 PM
Why does the HC have to kowtow to some employee. Tell the kid the truth! Nobody on this team is untouchable. We will pursue any avenue to improve our team, period. Very few men in the history of the NFL were ever untradeable and Cutler sure as hell aint in that company.
I am sure we all remember the story of Reeves - basically talking Maddox into leaving college as an underclassman, and why - because Reeves had visions of shipping Elway out, and replacing him with Maddox!!!!!!
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:18 PM
I was against Jay taking over the reigns, but the team was already in a free fall before Jay took over. Wilson was hurt, the defense had been dominant with 'luck' early in the season, and while they started out appearing to be record setters, that house of cards collapsed by mid season.
Wilson wasn't hurt to the point where he could not play until Week 16. Nice try. :salute:
Lonestar
04-24-2009, 10:19 PM
Geeze JR, don't forget Clady, etal.
Actually I did I was thinking passing game.. wow how did I forget this stellar OLINE and Graham.. shame on me
and then of course we have his his security blankie who is now in south central LA..
great catch.. I owe you..
You don't think the Herschel Walker trade was one of the blockbusters of all time?
I didn't say there were no other big trades, just that they are exceptionally rare, that the Broncos have been involved in two of the biggest blockbuster trades in NFL history.
Walker is a good example of how far back you are having to go to come up with other big NFL trades.
In Baseball and other sports, big trades are very common, but not in the NFL. Rarely are stars, or potential stars, traded. Only guys on the bubble of making the roster, or players at the end of their career.
getlynched47
04-24-2009, 10:21 PM
Champ Bailey didn't play quarterback.
Sucks to be Jay Cutler.
Unfortunately, quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses. Jay Cutler failed.
...and I'm sure Kyle Orton would've faired much better with a defense that allowed 400+ points in back to back seasons, 7 Runningbacks on Injured Reserve, and a special teams unit that was far from special :coffee:
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 10:21 PM
Who was the quarterback?
who was the defense?
your blaming 1 guy on the other side of the ball for 11 players that couldnt get it done.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:21 PM
Wilson wasn't hurt to the point where he could not play until Week 16. Nice try. :salute:
just because he was n the field doesn't mean he was healthy to play to starting caliber. He wasn't.. adn was seriously hurt. Even early in the year, before his 'carting off teh field injury'... people commented on his inability to grab/tackle with his hand because of his shoulder. Then after the carting off injury, he was non existant on the field.... but was still there because he was the leader of that defense. So yes he was, very much, hurt.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:23 PM
...and I'm sure Kyle Orton would've faired much better with a defense that allowed 400+ points in back to back seasons, 7 Runningbacks on Injured Reserve, and a special teams unit that was far from special :coffee:
Other than the fact that we have no idea about that...Orton won't have to deal with that. Orton has the convenience of two first round draft picks, and a third, to sure up that defense, doesn't he?
Once again. This is not Cutler vs. Orton.
This is Cutler and a fifth round pick vs. Orton, two first and a third round pick.
hamrob
04-24-2009, 10:23 PM
We didn't let him go anywhere. He chose not to be a part of the organization. Why hold back the entire team because of one player?
And when are these "analysts" going to start doing their homework?He left because the kid coach who was hired was an idiot...and he didn't respect him!
nevcraw
04-24-2009, 10:24 PM
They weren't judged on wins and losses? Plummer got us into the playoffs and got us to the AFC Championship game. He did not, for all his faults, orchestrate the WORST collapse in NFL history.
I fell on Plummer's side...he won..again, and again...and then I said, OK, its Cutler's job now...and NOW, Cutler has failed, miserably.
The coach did that and it cost him his job..
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:24 PM
just because he was n the field doesn't mean he was healthy to play to starting caliber. He wasn't.. adn was seriously hurt. Even early in the year, before his 'carting off teh field injury'... people commented on his inability to grab/tackle with his hand because of his shoulder. Then after the carting off injury, he was non existant on the field.... but was still there because he was the leader of that defense. So yes he was, very much, hurt.
Al Wilson didn't "wrap up" his entire career.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:24 PM
The coach did that and it cost him his job..
Cost the quarterback his job too...didn't it?
getlynched47
04-24-2009, 10:28 PM
Other than the fact that we have no idea about that...Orton won't have to deal with that. Orton has the convenience of two first round draft picks, and a third, to sure up that defense, doesn't he?
Once again. This is not Cutler vs. Orton.
This is Cutler and a fifth round pick vs. Orton, two first and a third round pick.
Why? The record comes down the the QB right? The QB is to blame for all the losses and gets all the credit for the victories right? Don't throw Jay Cutler under the bus just because he isn't the Broncos QB anymore...
Wilson wasn't hurt to the point where he could not play until Week 16. Nice try. :salute:
Is the sarcasm really necessary?
Ok, with a 'nice try' back at you. Al Wilson was carted off the field in week 13 in a game that the Broncos were leading into the fourth quarter and the defense looked lost after he left the game.
He was a shell of himself in the final four games of the season, and that week 13 injury ultimately ended his career and he blamed the Broncos for telling him he could play when he wasn't fit to do so.
Not everything is black and white.
horsepig
04-24-2009, 10:30 PM
I am sure we all remember the story of Reeves - basically talking Maddox into leaving college as an underclassman, and why - because Reeves had visions of shipping Elway out, and replacing him with Maddox!!!!!!
Gotta remember Reeves wanted the most conservative approach possible. Reeves left everything to the rather poor running game and some pretty darned good defenses and then let Elway bail him out at the finish.
Reeves hated that. Howevewr, Reeves won hell of a lot of games and Broncofanatics were alive and well then. I only hope McKid's approach works as well. His offensive scheme is actually kind of conservative, ball control. I feel he will have a sharp eye for talent which will keep us up there in the standings. He has already gotten rid of a lot of dead weight.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 10:34 PM
in case you didnt notice we were in position to make the playoffs the last 3 games last year and our defense blew it!
EPIC FAIL!!!
But but but but...Jay Cutler led us to an 8-5 record.....and then to an 8-8 record. If JAY and JAY only led us to an 8-5 record, than why couldn't he have led us to a 9-7, or 10-6, or 11-5?
Hey Ravage...you said you judge players by their production on the field....
During that 3 game lead stretch with 3 to play and losing those 3 games led by CUtler....he threw 2 Td's and 4 int's during those 3 games.....not too mention a 62.1 comp %. Judge that.
So...many want to say our D choked during those 3 games, but it looks more like the QB sure didn't help matters. He choked.
Denver Native (Carol)
04-24-2009, 10:35 PM
Very interesting article I just found. Read where I bolded the part at the bottom. Cutler is definitely admitting that he did SOMETHING!!!!!! And I can tell you from local interviews when he was in Denver, he definitely let Elway's ghost haunt him, to the point he most of the time sounded jealous of Elway. I also thought it was interesting where Cutler did not call Kravitz like he was suppose to :rolleyes:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090424/SPORTS15/904240353/1034/SPORTS15
As a Denver refugee and a diabetic like Jay Cutler, I'm rooting for his message of hope to resonate with young people who are facing the prospect of life with this disease.
That's why the new Chicago Bears quarterback will be in town all weekend as part of the "Inspired by Diabetes" campaign for Eli Lilly and Co. He was diagnosed last spring as a Type 1 diabetic and is using his fame to raise awareness and resources to find a cure.
Here, though, is the problem, at least for now:
Until the Santa Claus, Ind., native fully transforms his battered image as a whiny so-and-so who moped his way out of Denver and forced a trade to the Bears, people will look closer at the messenger than they will the message.
The public perception of the former Heritage Hills High School quarterback is mixed, to say the least. In Chicago, he is the savior, the first franchise quarterback since Sid Luckman (with all due respect to Bob Avellini). In Denver, he's utterly reviled. Elsewhere in the sports nation, his recent melodrama has inspired hours of breathless radio-show debate.
"In Chicago, the perception of me is pretty good,'' he said, laughing. "Outside of Chicago -- 'whiner, he got his way.' Probably not a good perception by any means.
"But you can go from a bad guy to beloved in a matter of games. It's going to take some time; I know that. I'm sure there are going to be people in Denver who are going to hate me for the rest of my life. I completely understand it. Not everybody knows the whole situation and they never will know.''
More recently, Cutler has been victimized by the devil's technology, the camera phone. As a 25-year-old single guy living in Chicago, he likes to get out with teammates and enjoy some adult beverages. Why not, right? The photos have ended up all over the Internet, leaving people asking, "Is a diabetes spokesman supposed to be out pounding beers?''
(For the record, diabetics can drink in moderation.)
"People have no idea what I'm drinking or how much I'm drinking,'' Cutler said. "I might have a beer and water the rest of the night. But I think the people here (at Lilly) know me well enough and know the kind of person I am, so it's not an issue.''
The message is important. He wants diabetics, especially young people who are diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes, to understand they can live full, healthy, productive lives.
"Right now, I want to talk to kids and express to them that a diagnosis of diabetes doesn't have to be the end for them,'' said Cutler, who had a Pro Bowl season despite the disease. "There's a lot this world has to offer, and these kids can go out and do what they want in life.''
The question is, will people who are inclined to dislike Cutler be willing to separate the messenger from the message?
File this under "For Whatever It's Worth'':
For two days, Cutler's representative was telling me the quarterback was going to call me for an interview. I was hoping to speak to him before Thursday night's media session at Lilly in order to make deadline for USA Today as well as The Indianapolis Star.
What more could Lilly ask for from its spokesman -- a column about the company's diabetes efforts in a national publication?
Times were set up for him to call. And he never called. Not Wednesday. Not Thursday. His representative was pulling his hair out. I kept thinking, now I know how Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and owner Pat Bowlen felt when they couldn't get Cutler to return their texts.
Then you meet the guy and the first thing he does is smile sheepishly and pull out an iPhone that's cracked in about a thousand places. (Yeah, I know, there must be a critical phone shortage in the Chicagoland area, which explains why he couldn't use another phone.)
On the issue of Cutler's divorce from the Broncos, look, it's hard for me to have a strong opinion from 1,500 miles away.
What I will say is, it's highly ironic that in Denver, John Elway sits at the right hand of God and Cutler is the personification of evil. Memories are short, aren't they? The only reason Elway ended up in Denver is because Elway refused to sign with Frank Kush and the Baltimore Colts, eventually playing baseball before forcing a trade.
How were Elway and Cutler different? Or Eli Manning, for that matter, who refused to play for San Diego and forced a trade to New York?
"That's weird, isn't it? I've thought about that,'' Cutler said. "He (Elway) did a similar thing to what I did. People forget and perceptions change. When you win some Super Bowls like John or one like Eli, people forget certain things.''
For the people who are doing the good work of helping diabetics, you hope the focus is on the message and not the messenger, at least for now.
Add your thoughts: Post a comment
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:36 PM
Why? The record comes down the the QB right? The QB is to blame for all the losses and gets all the credit for the victories right? Don't throw Jay Cutler under the bus just because he isn't the Broncos QB anymore...
Worst collapse in NFL history is on his head...:noidea:
I'm not going to sugar coat it.
DenBronx
04-24-2009, 10:36 PM
But but but but...Jay Cutler led us to an 8-5 record.....and then to an 8-8 record. If JAY and JAY only led us to an 8-5 record, than why couldn't he have led us to a 9-7, or 10-6, or 11-5?
Hey Ravage...you said you judge players by their production on the field....
During that 3 game lead stretch with 3 to play and losing those 3 games led by CUtler....he threw 2 Td's and 4 int's during those 3 games.....not too mention a 62.1 comp %. Judge that.
So...many want to say our D choked during those 3 games, but it looks more like the QB sure didn't help matters. He choked.
hard to win when your playing from behind and teams know that all your going to do is air it out.
and when he did take us to 8-5 he pulled alot of those out of his ass. alot of those games we could have easily lost if it wasnt for him.
1st san diego game? comeback win over cleveland? shootout against saints? jay won those games....again we were a much much worse team than 8-8
nice try!
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:37 PM
hard to win when your playing from behind and teams know that all your going to do is air it out.
You can actually look back and see, that for the most part, Denver was NOT playing from behind.
I saw or heard several interviews with Cutler where he admitted to making mistakes. He said things like I think both sides made mistakes and could have handled things differently.
On the flip side, in the interviews I saw with McDaniels, he only talked about how 'the player' was wrong. Again, it's a young, rookie head coach with a big ego and needing to prove others are wrong, and he makes no mistakes.
Hopefully, that ego and cockiness will turn into a winning coach/team, but from the outside, it simply appears to be youthful arrogance and ignorance.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:38 PM
But but but but...Jay Cutler led us to an 8-5 record.....and then to an 8-8 record. If JAY and JAY only led us to an 8-5 record, than why couldn't he have led us to a 9-7, or 10-6, or 11-5?
Hey Ravage...you said you judge players by their production on the field....
During that 3 game lead stretch with 3 to play and losing those 3 games led by CUtler....he threw 2 Td's and 4 int's during those 3 games.....not too mention a 62.1 comp %. Judge that.
So...many want to say our D choked during those 3 games, but it looks more like the QB sure didn't help matters. He choked.
So I guess we should simply ignore the fact that we won 8 games despite all the other pitfalls and not give him credit for leading us to one of ONLY 2 teams in HISTORY to win 8 when giving up that many points. Did he play badly the last three games.. sure. Did he play badly enough to say that he still isn't one of the best young QBs in the NFL and already proved to be a franchise stud?? Noooooooo not at all.
Come on. I'm not going to let the fact that he's with the Bears remove my memory of a GOOD young QB we SHOULD have been EXTREMELY proud to have in the orange-n-blue. I'm sure you probably don't remember John Elway ever having a bad game. Fact is, they do.
But I do know that Jay's upside is SURE as hell much greater than any QB we have now or any of the past since John. But I'm guessing you'll be happier to blame the last three games on Jay. Whatever works for you
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 10:39 PM
For two days, Cutler's representative was telling me the quarterback was going to call me for an interview. I was hoping to speak to him before Thursday night's media session at Lilly in order to make deadline for USA Today as well as The Indianapolis Star.
What more could Lilly ask for from its spokesman -- a column about the company's diabetes efforts in a national publication?
Times were set up for him to call. And he never called. Not Wednesday. Not Thursday. His representative was pulling his hair out. I kept thinking, now I know how Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and owner Pat Bowlen felt when they couldn't get Cutler to return their texts.
Then you meet the guy and the first thing he does is smile sheepishly and pull out an iPhone that's cracked in about a thousand places. (Yeah, I know, there must be a critical phone shortage in the Chicagoland area, which explains why he couldn't use another phone.)
What a responsible guy...:rolleyes:
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:40 PM
I saw or heard several interviews with Cutler where he admitted to making mistakes. He said things like I think both sides made mistakes and could have handled things differently.
On the flip side, in the interviews I saw with McDaniels, he only talked about how 'the player' was wrong. Again, it's a young, rookie head coach with a big ego and needing to prove others are wrong, and he makes no mistakes.
Hopefully, that ego and cockiness will turn into a winning coach/team, but from the outside, it simply appears to be youthful arrogance and ignorance.
As opposed to (paraphrased):
Jim Rome: Clearly, the Broncos need to improve upon some things.
Jay Cutler: On the offensive side of the ball? [PAUSE] Just kidding, we need to get better.
Defense effectively thrown under the bus. All the glory, none of the blame?
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:41 PM
Worst collapse in NFL history is on his head...:noidea:
I'm not going to sugar coat it.
Funny thing, though. UP until that point, it was the one of the greatest seasons by a team giving up that many points in HISTORY. You can only FALL from up high, if you are there to begin with.
You won't give him credit for WINNING MORE GAMES than 98.7% of the teams that have EVER given 400+ points. No.... that would be giving too much credit to him.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 10:42 PM
So I guess we should simply ignore the fact that we won 8 games despite all the other pitfalls and not give him credit for leading us to one of ONLY 2 teams in HISTORY to win 8 when giving up that many points. Did he play badly the last three games.. sure. Did he play badly enough to say that he still isn't one of the best young QBs in the NFL and already proved to be a franchise stud?? Noooooooo not at all.
Come on. I'm not going to let the fact that he's with the Bears remove my memory of a GOOD young QB we SHOULD have been EXTREMELY proud to have in the orange-n-blue. I'm sure you probably don't remember John Elway ever having a bad game. Fact is, they do.
But I do know that Jay's upside is SURE as hell much greater than any QB we have now or any of the past since John. But I'm guessing you'll be happier to blame the last three games on Jay. Whatever works for you
Your right...lets not forget those 17 games he won...errr...8 this season. I guess we can't forget about the 13-3 Jake Plummer led season either...:D
As opposed to (paraphrased):
Jim Rome: Clearly, the Broncos need to improve upon some things.
Jay Cutler: On the offensive side of the ball? [PAUSE] Just kidding, we need to get better.
Defense effectively thrown under the bus. All the glory, none of the blame?
I misread, I thought you were responding to my Al Wilson post.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 10:43 PM
Funny thing, though. UP until that point, it was the one of the greatest seasons by a team giving up that many points in HISTORY. You can only FALL from up high, if you are there to begin with.
You won't give him credit for WINNING MORE GAMES than 98.7% of the teams that have EVER given 400+ points. No.... that would be giving too much credit to him.
Well, unlike you, I realize that he was part of the ENTIRE season. And we were 8-8, and we had the WORST COLLAPSE IN NFL HISTORY!
Your right...lets not forget those 17 games he won...errr...8 this season. I guess we can't forget about the 13-3 Jake Plummer led season either...:D
Those were team wins, Jake was just a game manager.... ;)
00 Days, 17 Hours, 17 Minutes, 59 Seconds to the first pick in the draft!!!
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:46 PM
Your right...lets not forget those 17 games he won...errr...8 this season. I guess we can't forget about the 13-3 Jake Plummer led season either...:D
what? :confused:
What does Jake have to do with anything? Seriously.
The point is... the average wins for a team that give up 400+ points is 4. Yet you guys don't want to give credit for SURPASSING those stats. You don't want to give credit for winning 7 and 8 games DESPITE the same stats that kept 102 OTHER teams from reaching 8 wins at all. No... I'm sure the other 102 teams simply had other things to blame other than Jay.
I'm able to see that despite having a bad team, the QB was the LAST.. VERY VERY last.. of our problems and worries. How many wins do you REALLY think we have last year with Orton at QB? come on. Blame wht you want, if it makes you feel better... but at least give credit and understand taht the accomplishment of actually WINNING 8 games is considered SPECIAL since its only been done ONE other time. Sometimes you just have to be glad and proud for small accomplishments despite overwhelming odds.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 10:55 PM
what? :confused:
What does Jake have to do with anything? Seriously.
The point is... the average wins for a team that give up 400+ points is 4. Yet you guys don't want to give credit for SURPASSING those stats. You don't want to give credit for winning 7 and 8 games DESPITE the same stats that kept 102 OTHER teams from reaching 8 wins at all. No... I'm sure the other 102 teams simply had other things to blame other than Jay.
I'm able to see that despite having a bad team, the QB was the LAST.. VERY VERY last.. of our problems and worries. How many wins do you REALLY think we have last year with Orton at QB? come on. Blame wht you want, if it makes you feel better... but at least give credit and understand taht the accomplishment of actually WINNING 8 games is considered SPECIAL since its only been done ONE other time. Sometimes you just have to be glad and proud for small accomplishments despite overwhelming odds.
2 td's 4 Int's in the last 3 games....credit where credit is due.
8 td's 13 Int's in the 8 loses....credit where credit is due.
2 td's 4 Int's in the last 3 games....credit where credit is due.
8 td's 13 Int's in the 8 loses....credit where credit is due.
What is that, something like 17 TDs and 6 INT's in the wins then (gong by memory of it being 25/19).
Not too bad for a third year starter (not full years), playing with 8 different starting running backs during the year.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:58 PM
2 td's 4 Int's in the last 3 games....credit where credit is due.
8 td's 13 Int's in the 8 loses....credit where credit is due.
heh.. right. He's the credit for the losses but I don't see you giving him credit for the SURPASSING wins.... :laugh:
Thats ok. Thats how you wish to try and think of him..... I hope that makes you feel better as we go through the next 10+ years looking for another.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 10:59 PM
What is that, something like 17 TDs and 6 INT's in the wins then (gong by memory of it being 25/19).
Not too bad for a third year starter (not full years), playing with 8 different starting running backs during the year.
actually.. 17 TDs and 5 Ints in those 8 wins :beer:
Broncospsycho77
04-24-2009, 10:59 PM
Thanks Tned for starting one of these threads. I appreciate it.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 11:00 PM
What is that, something like 17 TDs and 6 INT's in the wins then (gong by memory of it being 25/19).
Not too bad for a third year starter (not full years), playing with 8 different starting running backs during the year.
Which is exactly why he is judged by his 8-8 record. 8 wins, 8 loses..to go with a combined 17-20 as a starter.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 11:02 PM
Which is exactly why he is judged by his 8-8 record. 8 wins, 8 loses..to go with a combined 17-20 as a starter.
Only by those that choose to judge based on the stat sheet, and not by the actual play on the field. :beer:
Thanks Tned for starting one of these threads. I appreciate it.
I figure, shit, if we are going to argue, it might as well be about football, rather than the nonsense of Wed and Thur.
I think tomorrow morning, I will resurrect my video breakdown of the AFCCG and how the turnovers weren't Jake's fault. :lol:
Broncospsycho77
04-24-2009, 11:04 PM
Only by those that choose to judge based on the stat sheet, and not by the actual play on the field. :beer:
And off the field.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 11:04 PM
actually.. 17 TDs and 5 Ints in those 8 wins :beer:
Vs...8 TDs and 12 INTs in those losses?
Point?
Not bad for a third-year starter? Actually...if he is what people are assuming he is...it's horrible.
Only by those that choose to judge based on the stat sheet, and not by the actual play on the field. :beer:
Which is why so many teams were clamoring to get in the Cutler sweepstakes and Chicago gave up two firsts a third and their starting QB.
Vs...8 TDs and 12 INTs in those losses?
Point?
Not bad for a third-year starter? Actually...if he is what people are assuming he is...it's horrible.
Hardly, outside of Madden, and Big Ben in a protected, run first, defense dominated team, few QB's blossom in their first few years. They have ups and downs. It's in their third or fourth year of starting that they start to become consistant. Are there exceptions? Yes, but often on 'good' teams.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 11:09 PM
Vs...8 TDs and 12 INTs in those losses?
Point?
Not bad for a third-year starter? Actually...if he is what people are assuming he is...it's horrible.
actually.. NOT.
Have you compared his stats compared to the other QBs that have thrown the ball 600+ times by their third year? Not horrible at all.
Have you noticed that winning percentage of QBs that face 30+ points put against them? Its horrid...yet we've had 15 of the last 32 games with 30+ points put on the boards against us. NINE games last year had 30+ points put against us..WOW
MAN... I'm SOOOO freaking PROUD of how Cutler was able to win despite all those things. Freakin' AWESOME! Amazing some don't see just how lucky we WERE to have him. I guess all the other teams doing what they could to trade for him shows that not all are 'ignoring' the actual play on the field.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 11:12 PM
Hardly, outside of Madden, and Big Ben in a protected, run first, defense dominated team, few QB's blossom in their first few years. They have ups and downs. It's in their third or fourth year of starting that they start to become consistant. Are there exceptions? Yes, but often on 'good' teams.
LOL...
Seriously...lol...
Its come down to nothing else. How many years were we going to give him to fix it? Five, six?
All around the league, young quarterbacks were leading their teams to the playoffs/Super Bowl.
Meanwhile...we suck...
Broncospsycho77
04-24-2009, 11:12 PM
MAN... I'm SOOOO freaking PROUD of how Cutler was able to win despite all those things. Freakin' AWESOME! Amazing some don't see just how lucky we WERE to have him. I guess all the other teams doing what they could to trade for him shows that not all are 'ignoring' the actual play on the field.
Wait.
What do you mean? Like, which side of this are you on? I can't tell, really.
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 11:13 PM
actually.. NOT.
Have you compared his stats compared to the other QBs that have thrown the ball 600+ times by their third year? Not horrible at all.
Have you noticed that winning percentage of QBs that face 30+ points put against them? Its horrid...yet we've had 15 of the last 32 games with 30+ points put on the boards against us. NINE games last year had 30+ points put against us..WOW
MAN... I'm SOOOO freaking PROUD of how Cutler was able to win despite all those things. Freakin' AWESOME! Amazing some don't see just how lucky we WERE to have him. I guess all the other teams doing what they could to trade for him shows that not all are 'ignoring' the actual play on the field.
600+ times? That's more attempts than anyone else, that's more touches than anyone else. Does that not make it more his fault than any other teams?
LOL...
Seriously...lol...
Its come down to nothing else. How many years were we going to give him to fix it? Five, six?
All around the league, young quarterbacks were leading their teams to the playoffs/Super Bowl.
Meanwhile...we suck...
Ahh, I misread this, I thought you were responding to my Al Wilson post.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 11:15 PM
Only by those that choose to judge based on the stat sheet, and not by the actual play on the field. :beer:
In case you haven't noticed, the stat sheet is what comes from the play on the field.
He was sub-par at best....terrible if you consider him a franchise QB.
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 11:16 PM
600+ times? That's more attempts than anyone else, that's more touches than anyone else. Does that not make it more his fault than any other teams?
what?? :laugh: I know you don't mean this and are only trying to be difficult :cool:
Ravage!!!
04-24-2009, 11:16 PM
In case you haven't noticed, the stat sheet is what comes from the play on the field.
He was sub-par at best....terrible if you consider him a franchise QB.
:laugh: HARDLy.. not in the nearest REMOTE way is that true. Not even close.... :laugh:
jrelway
04-24-2009, 11:16 PM
i love me some jay cutler. but honestly, i hope he muffs up real bad and the bears are the joke of the nfc. just because we have their #1 pick next year. sorry jay
MOtorboat
04-24-2009, 11:18 PM
what?? :laugh: I know you don't mean this and are only trying to be difficult :cool:
the more I listen to the ridiculous arguments that Cutler deserves all the praise and none of the blame, yeah, it does make me start to think it...
More touches, more fails.
Watchthemiddle
04-24-2009, 11:19 PM
:laugh: HARDLy.. not in the nearest REMOTE way is that true. Not even close.... :laugh:
So your saying stats don't come from play on the field?
Oh, and I have noticed how PROUD you are of Jay for being so AWESOME on the field. He looked really awesome pouting and having a fit after throwing another INT or getting knocked down. I would be proud of that too. :rolleyes:
And of his record. :rolleyes:
My oh my how the standards of some Bronco fans have plummeted.
Broncospsycho77
04-24-2009, 11:21 PM
Cutler was cool and all while we had him, but I'm glad we saw his true colors before we got to the point where he established himself in Denver for a long period time. Better finding the problem early than late.
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