How Broncos muscled up to help Manning

[Mannway187]

Courtesy of espn.go.com : http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/po...o-help-manning

"With the hoopla surrounding Peyton Manning's decision and the subsequent trade of Tim Tebow, it may have been easy to overlook some of the lower profile free-agent signings."

"ESPN Stats and Information took notice, collecting the best tidbits on how some these low profile signings can make a big impact."

"TE Joel Dreessen and TE Jacob Tamme, Denver Broncos"

"Dreessen has made catches on 72 percent of the passes targeted for him the last three seasons. Among tight ends with 100 attempts, Dreessen’s reception percentage ranks tied for second with Antonio Gates and trails only Jason Witten."

"Together, Dreessen and Tamme have 93 more receptions, 1,055 more yards and 12 more touchdowns than all Broncos tight ends over the past two seasons."

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very impressive!

Nice to know that the new TE's catch anything close, and Peyton will be making good use of that. Too bad the rules only allow the offense to use one ball at a time. Seems like next year Mannings toughest job will be spreading the ball around. No problem, thats the way he plays the game anyway. Unfortunately, we could be seeing alot more of the #2 QB this year than we thought. Once Peyton has hung a quick 28-35 points on the board why risk leaving him out there?
Now the New York Kneeler* wishes he had stayed right here, cause he's not gonna be spending much time tossin his patented "wobbling shoe string dirt clods" from the Jets sideline. Damn the luck.

*(actual name withheld to protect the inaccurate)

[Simple Jaded]

I think Dreessen and Tamme are solid, I'm more excited about Julius Thomas tho. The fact that the Broncos went out signed two TE's makes ya wonder what they actually think of Thomas.......

[Broncfan1970]

I agree Jaded I'm excited about Thomas' potential too, I don't think the signings reflect a lack of faith I just think the front office knows he's still raw as a player. Always good if a raw talented player can learn from more polished players, especially Tamme who has history playing with Manning. Overall I'm pretty excited about our TE depth this season.

[CoachChaz]

Different players in different packages. JT will get some playing time this year as he continues to develop

[Cugel]

If you have garbage time players starting at C and G you have a problem, no matter how good your TE and WRs are. Last year they left their TEs in Max-protect packages a lot. They obviously don't want to do that this season with Manning.

But, unless Walton and Beadles improve dramatically, they might have to! :coffee:

[DenBronx]

"Together, Dreessen and Tamme have 93 more receptions, 1,055 more yards and 12 more touchdowns than all Broncos tight ends over the past two seasons."


This is just crazy to me. This was a great addition for us! I don't think people understand how important TEs are to the offense. Manning will have a field day with those two and hopefully Orange Julious gets better too.

[jhildebrand]

It wont matter if the O line can't block long enough for Manning to get the ball to the TE's.

[echobravo]

I gotta say I was ecstatic to see Dreessen sign with the Broncos. I live in Fort Morgan and have pulled for this kid ever since he was a high schooler. Loved watching him at Colorado State. Can't wait to see him light up the league with Peyton throwing him passes:D

[Rick]

Have to keep in mind with the line that defenses crowded the line almost every single down. Our young guys are not studs but they were getting 8 in the box all the time.

That won't happen with Manning. One, he gets the ball out faster and two if they send too many people on a blitz leaving too few cover guys manning with his ability to survey the field will pick apart the defense.

If it is a designed run play and people are crowding, there is no QB in the NFL better at making play adjustments at the line, he will audible it out to a pass and again, pick them apart.

So long as Beadles and Walton don't play like Subway employees I think the line will be fine 100% because of who is playing behind center.

[Nomad]

Have to keep in mind with the line that defenses crowded the line almost every single down. Our young guys are not studs but they were getting 8 in the box all the time.

That won't happen with Manning. One, he gets the ball out faster and two if they send too many people on a blitz leaving too few cover guys manning with his ability to survey the field will pick apart the defense.

If it is a designed run play and people are crowding, there is no QB in the NFL better at making play adjustments at the line, he will audible it out to a pass and again, pick them apart.

So long as Beadles and Walton don't play like Subway employees I think the line will be fine 100% because of who is playing behind center.

You make a good point and it sounds very convincing. Again, I hope Manning is that same guy you describe as he was before his neck surgury.

[vandammage13]

If Manning brings us a SB, I wonder if the same argument against Shanny that "he can't win a SB without a ready-made elite QB like Elway" can be applied to Elway the VP?

[Ravage!!!]

So the TEs don't help a QB get rid of the ball faster on short routes, and instead run deep routes that require the ball to hold onto the ball too long?? :confused:

I don't think Manning is going to have a problem finding these TEs in the least.

[Simple Jaded]

If Manning brings us a SB, I wonder if the same argument against Shanny that "he can't win a SB without a ready-made elite QB like Elway" can be applied to Elway the VP?

If Manning brings a SB who cares what they say about Elway?.......

[Buff]

Have we cut Caleb Hanie yet?

[Npba900]

"Together, Dreessen and Tamme have 93 more receptions, 1,055 more yards and 12 more touchdowns than all Broncos tight ends over the past two seasons."


This is just crazy to me. This was a great addition for us! I don't think people understand how important TEs are to the offense. Manning will have a field day with those two and hopefully Orange Julious gets better too.

Good Points. I will also add look at how effective Brady was utilizing the his two TE's! Something tells me the 2012 offense-passing attack with Manning at the helm is going to be nasty! You add in Decker and Thomas, Manning is going to have 4 solid WR's to operate with.

I'm Stoked!

[Npba900]

If Manning brings us a SB, I wonder if the same argument against Shanny that "he can't win a SB without a ready-made elite QB like Elway" can be applied to Elway the VP?
Sure it will. In the NFL you don't win the SB without an elite QB leading the team.

[dunk7]

I agree with the generalization but I have two words for you: Trent Dilfer

[Ravage!!!]

If Manning brings us a SB, I wonder if the same argument against Shanny that "he can't win a SB without a ready-made elite QB like Elway" can be applied to Elway the VP?

I'm sure some idiot would try to say that. But considering I've never heard that said about any other VP, it would be pretty ridiculous. I would think it would be "Elway was smart to bring in the best players available. Look how it won them a Super Bowl." But then, I said the same thing about Shanahan as well.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm sure some idiot would try to say that. But considering I've never heard that said about any other VP, it would be pretty ridiculous. I would think it would be "Elway was smart to bring in the best players available. Look how it won them a Super Bowl." But then, I said the same thing about Shanahan as well.

Yeah but John Elway is the only VP to ever trade Tim Tebow. With Peyton Manning it's hard to believe that so many still carry a torch for 2011's worst passer in the league but the fact that so many can't understand why he couldn't stay shows how myopic they've always been about Tebow.

To hardcore Tebowfans nothing short of multiple SB's will ever be deemed a success, when in reality getting out from under Tebowmania may be all the Broncos needed to deem this a success. Getting Manning was just gravy.......

[Cugel]

Sure it will. In the NFL you don't win the SB without an elite QB leading the team.

That really is the dirty little secret of the NFL. I often have posted this, but going back to the days of Jake Plummer, all I ever got was abuse from the rose colored glasses contingent who kept insisting that Plummer, Orton, or Tebow was going to win a SB!

Many of them argued that Eli Manning was a lousy QB and that blew up the theory that you need an elite QB to win. Of course those arguments are pretty hollow right now. Eli Manning is a top 5 QB in the NFL and has had multiple great years. He led the Giants winning streak into the playoffs and SB.

So, the list of SB winning QBs going back to the 90's looks like a who's who of NFL HOF and All-Pro QBs:

Eli Manning (2)
Aaron Rogers
Ben Roethlisberger (2)
Drew Brees
Tom Brady (3)
Peyton Manning
Kurt Warner
John Elway (2)
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman (3)
Steve Young

Every one of them an elite QB. Most are certain to be in the HOF or already in.

The only QBs missing from that list: Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson had the #1 and #3 scoring defenses in modern NFL history since the '85-86 Bears. Not just good but two of the greatest 3 defenses of the last 25 years.

So, bottom line, the NFL is a pass-happy QB dependent league. If you have a mediocre, or even a GOOD QB who's not a top 10 elite QB then history says you have NO chance to win the SB.

And nobody wants to believe that, because it means that 22 teams in the NFL basically start the season without having a chance. Now, long-shots can occur. But, it hasn't happened in almost 2 decades.

It will be interesting to see if a 2nd tier QB can ever win the SB these days. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez (if he can even hold onto his job), Jay Cutler, Phillip Rivers (he hasn't played as well in the last couple of years) or whether if they ever get there they would suffer the fate of Rex Grossman, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, Kerry Collins, Steve McNair, Chris Chandler, etc.

I'd give Flacco the best chance because they have an excellent team around him, but you'll notice that despite having a great defense year in and year out, they haven't gotten close to the SB since 2000.

[Mannway187]

So, the list of SB winning QBs going back to the 90's looks like a who's who of NFL HOF and All-Pro QBs:

Eli Manning (2)
Aaron Rogers
Ben Roethlisberger (2)
Drew Brees
Tom Brady (3)
Peyton Manning
Kurt Warner
John Elway (2)
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman (3)
Steve Young

Every one of them an elite QB. Most are certain to be in the HOF or already in.

The only QBs missing from that list: Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson had the #1 and #3 scoring defenses in modern NFL history since the '85-86 Bears. Not just good but two of the greatest 3 defenses of the last 25 years.

So, bottom line, the NFL is a pass-happy QB dependent league. If you have a mediocre, or even a GOOD QB who's not a top 10 elite QB then history says you have NO chance to win the SB.

And nobody wants to believe that, because it means that 22 teams in the NFL basically start the season without having a chance. Now, long-shots can occur. But, it hasn't happened in almost 2 decades.

It will be interesting to see if a 2nd tier QB can ever win the SB these days. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez (if he can even hold onto his job), Jay Cutler, Phillip Rivers (he hasn't played as well in the last couple of years) or whether if they ever get there they would suffer the fate of Rex Grossman, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, Kerry Collins, Steve McNair, Chris Chandler, etc.

I'd give Flacco the best chance because they have an excellent team around him, but you'll notice that despite having a great defense year in and year out, they haven't gotten close to the SB since 2000.

You can't convince me that Steve Young was ever an "elite" Quarterback. He might have had good stats with the 49ers but only because they scored alot of points early in games. But if his team was behind in the fourth quarter, forget it. With the exception of one miracle reception by Terrell Owens against the Packers on the last play of the NFC Championship game he never ever lead his teams to a come from behind win. To me that is the only stat that should matter. How does the quarterback respond to that do or die pressure. Neither Young or Brett Farve had the reputation of Elway or Montana. If your team was 5 points behind with less than 2 minutes left who on that list would be elite? Maybe 3 from that list and the rest are just stat whores that play for a team with a tough defense. And maybe its not the defense as much as the other teams quarterback wasn't up to the task. Has there ever been a Super Bowl played that came down to the last team with the ball won when they were behind by 4 points or more? Farve had his chance against us and choked, Mcnair came close his only trip, Brady never won one himself. He left that up to his kicker. He has won three rings but he is 0 for 2 in games which he could have won with a last minute Touchdown. Your quarterback can suck and you still win a superbowl. But if your defense sucks, forget it. Denver vs Giants, Redskins, and 49ers. Only the 49ers had a true HOF QB. Elway never had a chance against any of the three because the defense sucked every year. The best defensive unit of the three had to stop Joe Montana to Jerry Rice and we all remember how that worked out. So unless your quarteback can play great defense and make some tackles your not winning a ring. And unless this bunch plays better defense than they did against the Patriots, Manning isn't going to do any better than Brady Quinn would have. A great defense can put a mediocre Quarterback in the HOF. PERIOD. Just ask Mr. Francis Tarkington.

[Ravage!!!]

Rarely do you win with a sucking QB...but you obviously always see the teams with the top QB winning the game. How is that proof that defense wins Super Bowls?

Give me a top QB over a top defense any Sunday, and twice on Super Bowl Sunday

As far as Steve Young goes, how was he NOT a great QB? What is a stat whore? Steve, in his 8 years as a starter for the 49ers, NEVER won less than 10 games, and only TWICE won less than 11 games a season!! What happened the first year he was not the starter, 4 wins. If you are a QB in the NFL, and you are playing with and AGAINST the best in football, and you continue to have big numbers on completions, yards, TDs and wins..... how does that make you a stat "whore?" I see it as a QB doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, playing well.

As far as Manning not being able to do more than Brady Quinn....thats pretty laughable.

[Mannway187]

As far as Steve Young goes, how was he NOT a great QB? What is a stat whore? Steve, in his 8 years as a starter for the 49ers, NEVER won less than 10 games, and only TWICE won less than 11 games a season!! What happened the first year he was not the starter, 4 wins. If you are a QB in the NFL, and you are playing with and AGAINST the best in football, and you continue to have big numbers on completions, yards, TDs and wins..... how does that make you a stat "whore?" I see it as a QB doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, playing well.

As far as Manning not being able to do more than Brady Quinn....thats pretty laughable.

I agree that Steve Young played on teams that won alot of games during the regular season. Come playoff time when the 49ers needed an "elite" quarterback capable of leading his team to victory he came through once. And on that one play he threw the ball into a crowd of Packers and somehow Owens happened to save his ass. So in his 8 years as starter for the 49ers he was a great regular season quarterback who let his team and their fans down by usually choking in the playoffs. Hence his statement about finally getting the monkey off his back when they smoked the Chargers and Stan Humphreys in the only superbowl Young played in. And that is what I call a stat whore. Plays great except when under pressure.

My memory isn't what it once was so I can't seem to recall exactly how many times Tom Brady's Patriots went to and won the superbowl while Peyton Mannings Colts sat home and watched it on TV. If the Colts had brought a better defense to the game Manning would have 4 rings and Brady would have needed surgery to get rid of the pain in his neck. But Manning missed to many tackles and watched the Superbowl from his couch just like Brady Quinn. Get it? If This defense gives up 50 points again in the playoffs like they did last year it won't matter who our quarterback is. They'll be sitting at home on the couch watching the big game just like you and I. I have no interest in buying a ticket to a superbowl unless my team is in it. Yes, I am a football fan, But I am a Broncos fan first. The only quarterback I care about is the one that plays for my team. All the rest are stat whores. If we sign a stat whore to play quarterback he better be able to play defense or score more than 50 points in the games that count most, playoff games. Our quarterback can play defense by putting 28 on the board by halftime and then not turning the ball over in the second half. The best defense is a great offense and that is how defense wins championships. End of lesson!

[broncobryce]

Yeah but John Elway is the only VP to ever trade Tim Tebow. With Peyton Manning it's hard to believe that so many still carry a torch for 2011's worst passer in the league but the fact that so many can't understand why he couldn't stay shows how myopic they've always been about Tebow.

To hardcore Tebowfans nothing short of multiple SB's will ever be deemed a success, when in reality getting out from under Tebowmania may be all the Broncos needed to deem this a success. Getting Manning was just gravy.......

Wow, you really are obsessed.

[Simple Jaded]

Wow, you really are obsessed.

Lmmfao.......Really? Says the guy who quotes Lady ****ing Gaga about his favorite QB. Shit! I passed "obsessed" a couple weeks ago, now I'm on the corner of "Bonertime" and "Ecstatic" with a full tank of "Halle-****in-lujah". I got a hardon a cat couldn't scratch.

Hypocrite much, there, Bryce?.......