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View Full Version : If we trade up or they land at 12?



Benetto
04-22-2009, 03:51 PM
Who would you take?

underrated29
04-22-2009, 03:51 PM
i am going to go with option b.


***edit- ok here is the poll, sorry i got ansy.

If they are falling to 12 ty jax. If trade up raji.

Otherwise the order you listed, looks pretty good to me.

Benetto
04-22-2009, 03:53 PM
Didn't give me enough time for poll...lol...

Benetto
04-22-2009, 03:55 PM
Orakpo is not ideal for 3-4...but he can get the QB in any formation...Can still play 3-4 but not enough agility to drop back in coverage if needed to.

Still a great fit if we trade up...Tyson would be my second option.

Requiem / The Dagda
04-22-2009, 03:57 PM
Heathcliff Arnold, DE/OLB - Newberry C.C.

underrated29
04-22-2009, 04:00 PM
gee.

I thought cicero was going to say:

Bill Devaroe for $500 please.

Requiem / The Dagda
04-22-2009, 04:02 PM
In all honesty, Raji and Jackson are the only two guys there that remotely interest me. **** Orakpo and Maybin is all right.

LRtagger
04-22-2009, 04:13 PM
Where is Dirty? :mad:

Benetto
04-22-2009, 04:14 PM
I should've added "other" sorry..

SmilinAssasSin27
04-22-2009, 04:19 PM
Raji if he drops. If he does, we need to take him and trade back up from 18 for TJax

Benetto
04-22-2009, 04:21 PM
BJ seems like he could turn fat and lazy after he gets paid...I am not much of a College football guru, but I see Gerard Warren written all over this guy.

LRtagger
04-22-2009, 04:23 PM
BJ seems like he could turn fat and lazy after he gets paid...I am not much of a College football guru, but I see Gerard Warren written all over this guy.

Just out of curiosity, what gives you that impression?

Benetto
04-22-2009, 04:25 PM
Just out of curiosity, what gives you that impression?


Warren a (3rd pick over-all) first round talent coming out, so all the hype is there...Heavy weight coming out, so has the chance to become fatter and lazier when signs "big money" contract.

A few of the reasons.

Oh yeah...The Corn-rows.

Italianmobstr7
04-22-2009, 04:28 PM
I struggled between Raji and Maybin. I'd like to have Brace in the 2nd or Peria Jerry at 18. So I picked Maybin. I'm a little bias because I'm a Penn State fan, but I think Maybin will be a force bringing a pass rush, and he can drop back into coverage. Would be awesome to see him in Orange and Blue.

BroncoNut
04-22-2009, 04:32 PM
I really don't know enough about these guys or the game itself to make an intelligent post on this. sorry

BigDaddyBronco
04-22-2009, 04:36 PM
I really don't know enough about these guys or the game itself to make an intelligent post on this. sorry
I applaud your honesty Nut.
:clap2:

I don't recall ever watching one of these guys during a college football game. I can read what the draft experts say though.

Raji
Jackson
Don't want either of the other two at DE. Maybe at OLB.

BroncoNut
04-22-2009, 04:38 PM
I applaud your honesty Nut.
:clap2:

maybe a salute is in order?

BigDaddyBronco
04-22-2009, 04:40 PM
maybe a salute is in order?
Have fun at Dr. V's. Drive safe.

hotcarl
04-22-2009, 04:45 PM
i have never watched football in my life. no thank you.

Skinny
04-22-2009, 04:55 PM
I would take Raji. Jackson is a solid player but i don't want him at #12. I want a little more bang for my buck with that pick. Jackson at #18 i could live with. Flip a coin between Orapko and Maybin.

Lonestar
04-22-2009, 05:39 PM
I really don't know enough about these guys or the game itself to make an intelligent post on this. sorry


Which have qualified you to be in charge of the war room from 1999-2005..

rcsodak
04-22-2009, 06:10 PM
Raji is a character issue person. And he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Maybin sounds like a 3rd down rusher only. Denver has enough of those.

I like TJax at DE and Everett Brown or Robert Ayers at OLB at 18. Brace would be nice to get in the 2nd round.

oobehr
04-22-2009, 06:29 PM
If Raji falls to us we should jump on him like our lives depended on it. Character concerns have been cleared up and he has the possibility to be a monster. Pressure up the middle improves a defense by a lot, why else would Haynesworth be getting the money he is getting.

rcsodak
04-22-2009, 06:45 PM
If Raji falls to us we should jump on him like our lives depended on it. Character concerns have been cleared up and he has the possibility to be a monster. Pressure up the middle improves a defense by a lot, why else would Haynesworth be getting the money he is getting.

Raji is no Haynesworth

dogfish
04-22-2009, 07:10 PM
Where is Dirty? :mad:

mowing the lawn. . . .

omac
04-22-2009, 07:33 PM
I go with Raji, like almost everyone. I'm thinking not having a soid NT for a 3-4 is like having Trent Dilfer for a McDaniels high volume passing offense.

dogfish
04-22-2009, 07:43 PM
"I just love the guy. He reminds me so much of me. The guy is very talented. He dominates his opponents. He’s the best defensive lineman out there, hands down.”
- vince wilfork, giving his opinion on raji


funny, wilfork is the guy i've compared raji to all along. . . .


http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view/2009_04_22_Patriots_usually_up_front_about_picks/

xzn
04-23-2009, 03:30 AM
Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews > Aaron Maybin and Everette Brown

We already have Elvis to play "Joker" on the weakside. We need a SOLB who has demonstrated the versatility to drop into zone coverage, not just short area zone, and also scrape off the edge, stack and shed, cover backs and TEs in man or blitz the QB.

Maybin and Brown have had their hands in the dirt with only occasional short area flat drops on zone dogs.

Cushing or Matthews are coverage backers who have proven the ability to play the run and also rush the passer.

dogfish
04-23-2009, 04:01 AM
cushing > no one


he's a 'roid freak who's turned his body into glass. . . .



Has struggled with injuries throughout his career -- missing five games due to a shoulder separation in 2005 and three games in 2007 due to a high ankle sprain, as well as undergoing surgery after the 2006 (shoulder) and 2007 (knee) spring practices.

xzn
04-23-2009, 04:04 AM
In other words, he played through injuries that can happen to anyone and hasn't missed a start in TWO YEARS.

We probably shouldn't have drafted Terrell Davis either since he had a few injuries in college....

Elevation inc
04-23-2009, 06:32 AM
In other words, he played through injuries that can happen to anyone and hasn't missed a start in TWO YEARS.

We probably shouldn't have drafted Terrell Davis either since he had a few injuries in college....

how is sitting out of and missing games completely playing through injury????.....we have 1 LB injury case in boss bailey already do we really need another 1.

Dean
04-23-2009, 06:54 AM
Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews > Aaron Maybin and Everette Brown

We already have Elvis to play "Joker" on the weakside. We need a SOLB who has demonstrated the versatility to drop into zone coverage, not just short area zone, and also scrape off the edge, stack and shed, cover backs and TEs in man or blitz the QB.

Maybin and Brown have had their hands in the dirt with only occasional short area flat drops on zone dogs.

Cushing or Matthews are coverage backers who have proven the ability to play the run and also rush the passer.

I don't believe that you will get an arguement that we don't need a SOLB. however, do we need to use the #12 pick to obtain him is the question.

It is my belief that the nose in a 3-4 defense is the most important position. Right now we don't have one. Raji is not only the the best DT in the draft but, also, the one with the best skill-set for playing nose.

If we can get him without trading up, he would be my pick.

broncofaninfla
04-23-2009, 07:15 AM
Tyson Jackson then a big body @ NT later on in the draft

xzn
04-23-2009, 11:27 AM
how is sitting out of and missing games completely playing through injury????.....we have 1 LB injury case in boss bailey already do we really need another 1.

Elevation, this was what was posted:

Has struggled with injuries throughout his career -- missing five games due to a shoulder separation in 2005 and three games in 2007 due to a high ankle sprain, as well as undergoing surgery after the 2006 (shoulder) and 2007 (knee) spring practices.

That means that he didn't miss ANY time IN REAL GAMES in 2007 or 2008.

That's TWO YEARS.

Anybody can get hurt at any time.

If he had a persistent injury to the same part of his body that he kept aggravating I'd feel differenty.

Or if he'd had a catastrophic injury that threatened to dibilitate him long term I'd also feel differently.

But whatever OWIES he's gotten through he has played at a high level for two seasons as a starter on the best defense that doesn't get paid in the country.

xzn
04-23-2009, 11:31 AM
I don't believe that you will get an arguement that we don't need a SOLB. however, do we need to use the #12 pick to obtain him is the question.

It is my belief that the nose in a 3-4 defense is the most important position. Right now we don't have one. Raji is not only the the best DT in the draft but, also, the one with the best skill-set for playing nose.

If we can get him without trading up, he would be my pick.

No question if Raji is there he's the pick! Even Tyson.

But if both of them are gone we start looking at guys like:

Orakpo
Cushing
Clay Matthews
Everette Brown
Aaron Maybin
Robert Ayers
Rey Maualuga
Knowshon Moreno
Malcolm Jenkins

We might be able to draft two from that list with the 12 and 18 if things go our way.

xzn
04-23-2009, 11:32 AM
Tyson Jackson then a big body @ NT later on in the draft

Charley Casserly's latest mock had Tyson going 3rd overall to K.C. :tsk:

CoachChaz
04-23-2009, 11:39 AM
Yeah, the word is KC is absolutely in love with TJax right now. So is GB. It's looking like we may not have much of a shot at landing him.

Nomad
04-23-2009, 11:52 AM
Yeah, the word is KC is absolutely in love with TJax right now. So is GB. It's looking like we may not have much of a shot at landing him.

True! Curry's stock is falling as well (alledgely) because he's one dimensional and Cleveland is high on Raji because many scouts believe Manguini doesn't take receivers in the first and the Browns need help on the DL:noidea:, just repeating what hear about Curry and Raji!!

dogfish
04-23-2009, 11:55 AM
In other words, he played through injuries that can happen to anyone and hasn't missed a start in TWO YEARS.

We probably shouldn't have drafted Terrell Davis either since he had a few injuries in college....


we didn't spend a first round pick on TD. . . .

cushing has been dogged by persistent allegations of steroids use since high school, and has been VERY susceptible to injury-- some scouts feel that he is overly muscle-bound and lacks joint flexibility, which can contribute to the problem. . . when you draft guys that have that many injury problems in college with a high pick you're taking a great risk, because those things rarely get better at the pro level. . . look at boss bailey, selvin young and ryan torain just on our immediate roster. . .

so why take a chance on a guy like that in a draft that's loaded with high-end linebacker talent? i don't necessarily agree with your assertion that we have to draft a strongside 'backer just because it's the most immediate need (as poor as our pass rush has been, i want the best edge rusher, regardless of his projected position-- IMO, that long term approach trumps needs-based drafting), but even if we do decide to take a strongside OLB, why not take clint sintim? he's a DURABLE, proven starter that actually played strong OLB in a 3-4 for four years in college, where he racked up 30+ career sacks compareed to 8 for cushing. . . his measurables aren't that far off, he's an excellent character and a polished player who could be plugged in immediately without having to learn a new position. . .

when your team has been ravaged by injuries over the past few years, why would you want to take a chance spending a high pick on a guy that's been so injury-prone throughout his college career when there are perfectly good alternatives available?

CoachChaz
04-23-2009, 11:55 AM
Either way we get a stud at 12

CoachChaz
04-23-2009, 11:56 AM
we didn't spend a first round pick on TD. . . .

cushing has been dogged by persistent allegations of steroids use since high school, and has been VERY susceptible to injury-- some scouts feel that he is overly muscle-bound and lacks joint flexibility, which can contribute to the problem. . . when you draft guys that have that many injury problems in college with a high pick you're taking a great risk, because those things rarely get better at the pro level. . . look at boss bailey, selvin young and ryan torain just on our immediate roster. . .

so why take a chance on a guy like that in a draft that's loaded with high-end linebacker talent? i don't necessarily agree with your assertion that we have to draft a strongside 'backer just because it's the most immediate need (as poor as our pass rush has been, i want the best edge rusher, regardless of his projected position-- IMO, that long term approach trumps needs-based drafting), but even if we do decide to take a strongside OLB, why not take clint sintim? he's a DURABLE, proven starter that actually played strong OLB in a 3-4 for four years in college, where he racked up 30+ career sacks compareed to 8 for cushing. . . his measurables aren't that far off, he's an excellent character and a polished player who could be plugged in immediately without having to learn a new position. . .

when your team has been ravaged by injuries over the past few years, why would you want to take a chance spending a high pick on a guy that's been so injury-prone throughout his college career when there are perfectly good alternatives available?

I want Sintim at 18 in the worst way. He's versatile and a complete player.

Dirk
04-23-2009, 12:10 PM
True! Curry's stock is falling as well (alledgely) because he's one dimensional and Cleveland is high on Raji because many scouts believe Manguini doesn't take receivers in the first and the Browns need help on the DL:noidea:, just repeating what hear about Curry and Raji!!


In reading the most current "rumor" beit smokescreen or not, Browns are hot on Sanchez.

Which is fine with me...grab the guys we don't want first!!! So we don't have to go after them! :D

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=4092024&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines

Nomad
04-23-2009, 12:20 PM
In reading the most current "rumor" beit smokescreen or not, Browns are hot on Sanchez.

Which is fine with me...grab the guys we don't want first!!! So we don't have to go after them! :D


As Chaz said we'll have a stud at 12 regardless, but I was watching ESPN or NFLN yesterday evening and someone from Cleveland (reporter) said the Browns were more interested in Raji than Crabtree. Just conversation, I haven't a clue what teams are thinking. I'm just looking forward to the BRONCOS and the way Jets fans react at the draft...they're hilarious!

xzn
04-23-2009, 12:33 PM
Sintim had a major shoulder injury in 2006

He also is a liability in coverage and not that fast.

Negatives - Sintim doesn’t have great straight line speed and may not be a true ’side line to side line’ player. At times he’ll get too high and be engulfed by bigger blockers, and needs to improve his hand work to free himself. Scouts biggest concern is his ability to drop into coverage. He wasn’t asked to do that very much at Virginia and he struggled with it during Senior Bowl week looking stiff in the hips and had trouble diagnosing routes. He might not have the ability to play man coverage against backs or tight ends.

Dirk
04-23-2009, 12:39 PM
Tick Tock....Tick Tock......time sure drags when you are waiting anxiously on something. Saturday can't get here quick enough!:D

bcbronc
04-23-2009, 12:43 PM
Sintim had a major shoulder injury in 2006

He also is a liability in coverage and not that fast.

Negatives - Sintim doesn’t have great straight line speed and may not be a true ’side line to side line’ player. At times he’ll get too high and be engulfed by bigger blockers, and needs to improve his hand work to free himself. Scouts biggest concern is his ability to drop into coverage. He wasn’t asked to do that very much at Virginia and he struggled with it during Senior Bowl week looking stiff in the hips and had trouble diagnosing routes. He might not have the ability to play man coverage against backs or tight ends.

and yet there are a lot of "experts" that feel Cushing doesn't have the agility or abiltiy to change directions to cut it at OLB. I've seen more than one projection that sees his best fit as an ILB. and there's the crux, most players have some limitations to their game. if your strong and physical against the run, usually you are a bit more limited in your coverage ability, and vice versa.


anyways, what's the general opinion on Ayers? I know Mayock has declared he'll be the best defensive player to come out of this draft. anyone agree with that?

dogfish
04-23-2009, 01:05 PM
and yet there are a lot of "experts" that feel Cushing doesn't have the agility or abiltiy to change directions to cut it at OLB. I've seen more than one projection that sees his best fit as an ILB. and there's the crux, most players have some limitations to their game. if your strong and physical against the run, usually you are a bit more limited in your coverage ability, and vice versa.


anyways, what's the general opinion on Ayers? I know Mayock has declared he'll be the best defensive player to come out of this draft. anyone agree with that?


absolutely! you won't find a player that doesn't have negatives listed on his scouting report, even the blue-chip prospects. . .


as for ayers. . . i dunno. . . . i do put a lot of stock in mayock's opinions, but ayers kinda makes me nervous. . . he's a guy that didn't really put it all together until his senior year, so you have to ask whether the light just came on then, he worked harder due to increasing maturity level, or if he turned it on because the pay day was in sight. . . scouts seem to feel that it was the former two for ayers, but you can never be sure. . . i know that taking a guy with single digit career sacks that ran close to a 4.8 40 and projecting him as an edge rushing OLB looks like a rather substantial risk to me, but that obviously doesn't mean that he can't be successful. . . on the flip side, his frame and natural ability offer a lot of scheme versatility. . .

he's a prospect that kind of came out of nowhere since the senior bowl-- he was being projected as a mid-round pick before then, and his stock seems to vary significantly depending on where you look. . . i'm seeing him projected anywhere from #11 to the 2nd round, he's all over the board. . . . my top choices for LB are everette brown and sintim, followed by probably barwin and larry english-- i suppose ayers and matthews would be next, but honestly i'm just not entirely sure what to make of either of them. . . there's a lot of projection involved with both players. . .

i guess the bottom line with ayers is that if we take him, i'll be leery because of the questions involved, but excited because of mayock's opinion and the reports of scouts from senior bowl practices. . . . IMO, he's a bit of a "cross your fingers and hold your breath" type of prospect. . . .

coach, whattaya think about ayers?

xzn
04-23-2009, 02:28 PM
I think Ayers will be an excellent 4-3 DE. I don't think he has the speed or athleticism to even be a project as a 3-4 OLB.

xzn
04-23-2009, 02:31 PM
Mayock's top five OLB prospects:

Outside linebackers
1 Aaron Curry Wake Forest Scheme diverse/high-level performer, safest pick in draft
2 Brian Orakpo Texas Talented conversion guy, explosive off edge
3 Brian Cushing USC Love attitude/passion, 4-3 SAM/3-4 ILB?
4 Clay Matthews USC Special talent, Nickel OLB
T-5th Larry English Northern Illinois Can run the arc, level of competition
T-5th Aaron Maybin Penn State Can he sustain 250 pounds or stop the run?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

xzn
04-23-2009, 02:32 PM
Mel Kiper's top OLB prospects

Outside linebackers
1. Aaron Curry, Wake Forest
2. Brian Cushing, USC
3. Larry English, Northern Illinois
4. Clay Matthews, USC


5. Kaluka Maiava, USC

There are more questions than answers at inside linebacker, but at outside linebacker, there are four potential first-round draft choices. One of them, Curry, was the top player on my draft board in October and is at that same spot today. He's a complete outside linebacker with great character and a solid work ethic, so it wasn't surprising when he nailed the combine workout. Matthews has enjoyed a monumental rise up the draft board since August. He's versatile and productive, has tremendous bloodlines and came through with an impressive showing at the combine workout. Cushing's ability to fit at either outside or inside linebacker is the reason I've always viewed him as a surefire first-rounder. English set the all-time sacks record at Northern Illinois, and could be drafted late in the first round. Sintim is more of a second-rounder. After that, the quality of the linebackers drops off. I like South Florida's Tyrone McKenzie as a fourth-round possibility. Ohio State's Marcus Freeman was unable to maintain his second-round grade from August and figures to slide into the middle portion of Day 2 of the draft.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=4054798

xzn
04-23-2009, 02:38 PM
Scout's Inc. OLB position grades:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=89&draftyear=2009

Outside Linebackers
NAME POS HT WT SCHOOL GRADE FLAG POS RANK OVR RANK
Aaron Curry OLB 6'1⅝" 254 Wake Forest 97 1 1
Brian Cushing OLB 6'2⅞" 243 USC 92 2 19
Clay Matthews OLB 6'3⅛" 240 USC 91 3 21
Paul Kruger OLB 6'4¼" 263 Utah 88 4 36
Clint Sintim OLB 6'2¾" 256 Virginia 87 5 40

If you're not an ESPN Insider and can't click on the link, I apologize that I do not know how to format that table better, but the bottom line comparing Cushing and Sintim is this.

Cushing has a 92 grade, factoring in any injury history and is the 2nd rated OLB and 19th overall prospect.

Sintim is a nice second round pick, not a high first. He has a 87 grade. 5th rated OLB and 40th overall.

SmilinAssasSin27
04-23-2009, 06:27 PM
I want Sintim. that's about it.

SmilinAssasSin27
04-23-2009, 06:29 PM
I'm gonna be livid if both TJax and Raji are gone at 12.

Simple Jaded
04-23-2009, 06:39 PM
Raji.......Orakpo.......Maybin.......In that order, if Jackson isn't there at 18, so be it.......

SmilinAssasSin27
04-23-2009, 06:41 PM
Orakpo has 1 pass rush move. I'd perfer Maybin due to explosiveness, athleticism and upside.

dogfish
04-23-2009, 06:44 PM
i'm hoping the guys in our war room aren't basing their board on ESPiN and mel kiper's opinions. . . .

and while i know that the general consensus of draft rankings does have sintim as a borderline 1st round talent with cushing clearly rated ahead of him, i simply don't agree. . . . draftniks have been wrong many times in the past, and it's really easy for them to ignore injury questions-- they don't end up burning millions of dollars if they're wrong. . . .




I'm gonna be livid if both TJax and Raji are gone at 12.


i'll be disappointed also, but i'm already braced for it, because i have a feeling that's exactly what's going to happen. . . and more so, assuming that both andre smith and sanchez are off the board, i suspect we won't be able to trade down either. . .

in that situation, my preferences would include everette brown, knowshon, and probably malcolm jenkins. . . .

SmilinAssasSin27
04-23-2009, 06:47 PM
If TJax and Raji are gone, I would almost just assume go after Moreno and the WR who drops (cuz 1 will if those 2 both go top 10) and then address the D the rest of the way...especially if Sintim can truly be had in rd 2.

TXBRONC
04-23-2009, 06:55 PM
I picked Raji as the first choice because the nose tackle is the center piece of the 3-4 defense. If he were gone, Tyson Jackson is who I think we should target next.

BroncoAV06
04-23-2009, 08:46 PM
Interesting artical about T-Jax and KC on SI from Trotter today. Talked about how in NE they selected Seymore 6th overall so T-Jax at #3 could not be that far out of question for Pioli.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jim_trotter/04/23/chiefs/index.html?eref=T1

I can see how some would say Raji could turn lazy but at #12 I am sure Denver would not waste anytime at all to get that card in, potential anchor for years to come in the 3-4 and there are definitly rush LB prospects available later in the draft and someone is bound to fall to #18.

But if T-Jax and Raji are gone, well then you would have to thnk of getting the highest rated OLB, or Ayers but I am not to sure how he would fit in a 3-4? I would be all over a RB in past years but with the recent history of the defense I just don't see it at #12.

Northman
04-23-2009, 08:48 PM
I still like DE more so give me Jackson. We just cant rush the passer whatsoever right now.