Jarvis Moss

[broncofaninfla]

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

Denver
Jarvis Moss (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10461) is a third-string (http://gazettebroncos.freedomblogging.com/) outside linebacker.
My take: Denver moved up four spots to take him two years ago. He has been injury prone and he has made virtually no impact in his first two NFL seasons. Now, the former defensive end is a third-string linebacker in Denver's 3-4 defense. Two starting linebacker are hurt and the team hasn't drafted anyone at the position yet. This is not a good sign for Moss, who could have a difficult time making the 53-man roster.

[claymore]

Epic fail. Im realy hoping we can salvage this guy.

[LRtagger]

If we draft OLB on day one Moss may be a goner. Sounds like Crowder will make the team over Moss.

[Tned]

I've been out of the loop a bit, has there been anything concrete about Dumerville moving to OLB in the 3-4, or just rumors to that effect? If Doom moves, which seems the best fit for him, it would seem very unlikely that there is room for Moss unless he really tears things up at OLB in camp.

[SoCalImport]

From my computer Moss seemed as close to a can't miss pick as any other D-lineman available two years ago, but that's from my standpoint at the time.
I am obviously NOT qualified to be a pro scout...

So.. what is it that the "pro" scouts for the Broncos saw? or maybe more to the point, what was it they DIDN'T see?

All I can say is the guy's a shining example of the hit and miss nature of the NFL draft process.

that.
And it better not happen this year. This years draft is the best chance the team's had in forever to build a young nucleus of defensive talent.
They HAVE TO get it right!

[claymore]

If we draft OLB on day one Moss may be a goner. Sounds like Crowder will make the team over Moss.

I would rather not draft an OLB for this reason. We need to try and salvage past draft picks. Bad thing is we truly wont know until Camp what Moss or Crowder will do.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I want to punch Jim Bates in the nuts right now.

[CrazyHorse]

I think Moss could still be a decent DE somewhere else in the league.
He just doesn't fit our system.

[SoCalImport]

I want to punch Jim Bates in the nuts right now.

I actually clenched up a bit when I read that....

[claymore]

I actually clenched up a bit when I read that....

BDB's fist is about the same size as a hubcap. I think it would kill a man if BDB was to punch him in the nads.

[SoCalImport]

I think Moss could still be a decent DE somewhere else in the league.
He just doesn't fit our system.

If that's true then it's been our pathetic defensive staff that's the problem. Moss has been given plenty of time to come along.
Maybe Nolan and crew can get him straitened out... fingers crossed

[NameUsedBefore]

Figured this might happen with Moss and/or Dumervil. I think Dumervil would be in the same position if he hadn't shown at least the ability to go after the QB like he can, but if he's blowing it mid-season he'll probably be in the rotation too.

[CrazyHorse]

If that's true then it's been our pathetic defensive staff that's the problem. Moss has been given plenty of time to come along.
Maybe Nolan and crew can get him straitened out... fingers crossed

I don't think he'll be a great player but could be adequate with a good supporting cast and defensive scheme.
He doesn't seem to fit here though.

[SoCalImport]

I've gotta think that Jarvis. M's just another first round pick that's been given MILLIONS and consequently see's no need to give the proverbial %110.

[broncofaninfla]

I have to wonder if this is another misinformation ploy by the Broncos to throw teams off on which postions we are locking in on early. But with that being said, Moss had yet to put the pads on to show what he can do at full speed. Sure looks like a bust at this point but he has a fresh start at a postion he is better suited for, or at least on paper. Coming out of college he was touted as a better fit at OLB in the 3/4, I guess we'll see.........

[Dirk]

Jarvis who?



Pretty much says it all....:coffee:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

This was the last draft pick I really got mad over. I remember I had just got done grilling some burgers and brats when I was living at my old place, sharing some laughs just wondering who the Broncos were going to pick. I then saw them move up with Jacksonville, saw who they picked and what they gave up and ended up going pretty nutso.

Guy was above-average when he "started" in college, which wasn't that much. Barely ever developed physically because he had something wrong with him constantly. Not a weight room type guy. He had long arms and a great first step off the line which really helped him with his pass rush. However, he doesn't have many pass rushing moves. Mental toughness was always questioned as well.

Denver was desperate for a pass rusher, so they reached for Moss who many people argued had the next best potential outside Gaines Adams. Unfortunately, the kicker was whether or not he could stay healthy enough to develop and see the field and realize it. That hasn't been the case, and I assume that it won't be the case this year.

What an awful pick.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

This was the last draft pick I really got mad over. I remember I had just got done grilling some burgers and brats when I was living at my old place, sharing some laughs just wondering who the Broncos were going to pick. I then saw them move up with Jacksonville, saw who they picked and what they gave up and ended up going pretty nutso.

Guy was above-average when he "started" in college, which wasn't that much. Barely ever developed physically because he had something wrong with him constantly. Not a weight room type guy. He had long arms and a great first step off the line which really helped him with his pass rush. However, he doesn't have many pass rushing moves. Mental toughness was always questioned as well.

Denver was desperate for a pass rusher, so they reached for Moss who many people argued had the next best potential outside Gaines Adams. Unfortunately, the kicker was whether or not he could stay healthy enough to develop and see the field and realize it. That hasn't been the case, and I assume that it won't be the case this year.

What an awful pick.

i flipped my shit when we drafted him, i absolutely hated it and have no idea what made him a first round prospect

[hotcarl]

maybe we can trade him for peppers if someone is willing to take his upside potential and develop him. possible 3 way trade?

[BeefStew25]

I personally think we should't be so judgemental. I bet he is a better pass rusher than anyone here.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Well, it was really his overall potential. Amazing physical talent who was extremely gifted at rushing the passer. Had he not got that injury his rookie year, I think he could have developed a lot better. He completely missed the weight room conditioning in college, and he was already going to have a tough time adjusting to the NFL; and getting set back by injury certainly didn't help. The Broncos must have felt like someone was going to take Moss between those several selections, thus they got anxious and moved up for him.

You're right though man, I didn't know what made him a first rounder either. It must have been his awesome combination of injuries and marginal college production. Shanahan seemed to have a penchant for those types of players.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

Well, it was really his overall potential. Amazing physical talent who was extremely gifted at rushing the passer. Had he not got that injury his rookie year, I think he could have developed a lot better. He completely missed the weight room conditioning in college, and he was already going to have a tough time adjusting to the NFL; and getting set back by injury certainly didn't help. The Broncos must have felt like someone was going to take Moss between those several selections, thus they got anxious and moved up for him.

You're right though man, I didn't know what made him a first rounder either. It must have been his awesome combination of injuries and marginal college production. Shanahan seemed to have a penchant for those types of players.

if i had to guess i think it may have been his great reps . . . what was it like 13 or something

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Don't marginalize his accomplishments! He threw 225 up sixteen times!

[SBboundBRONCOS]

Don't marginalize his accomplishments! He threw 225 up sixteen times!

i apologize . . . i am ashamed of my miscalculation :tsk:

[bcbronc]

I've been out of the loop a bit, has there been anything concrete about Dumerville moving to OLB in the 3-4, or just rumors to that effect? If Doom moves, which seems the best fit for him, it would seem very unlikely that there is room for Moss unless he really tears things up at OLB in camp.

there were reports out of mini camp that Doom was running first team reps at OLB opposite Reid. Crowder was second team behind Reid on the strong side. If you can take the reports out of Dove Valley at face valley, these three showed well.


I would rather not draft an OLB for this reason. We need to try and salvage past draft picks. Bad thing is we truly wont know until Camp what Moss or Crowder will do.

I agree with your sentiment, but think we still need to add one more OLB. the position is too important not to add at least one in a draft like this that is swarming in them. But I don't think it has to be in the first round. However, if Moss hasn't shown enough to the coaches to get past 3rd string, I'd re-prioritize and look to get a pass rusher early.

I had (completely irrational) high hopes for Moss in this new regime. It definitely wasn't based on anything I've seen from him on the field. But he does have great length and athleticism for a WOLB. I thought the new coaching staff might be able to polish this turd into a player. not exactly a great start though.

oh well, if the reports that Doom and Crowder are looking solid is accurate, then I'm happy. I sure didn't think all our DEs would be able to make the transition. But if two are able to, I'd be pleased as punch, Moss being a bust or not.

[OrangeHoof]

And it better not happen this year. This years draft is the best chance the team's had in forever to build a young nucleus of defensive talent.
They HAVE TO get it right!

And for that, the Broncos are trusting a GM with no draft-picking experience and a head coach with no head-coaching experience. Yes, the Broncos are dealing for an inside straight here. The one bright spot is that, with the extra choices, maybe the screw-ups won't be as noticeable.

[broncohead]

I would rather not draft an OLB for this reason. We need to try and salvage past draft picks. Bad thing is we truly wont know until Camp what Moss or Crowder will do.

The guy hasn't done anything in the NFL. Why would we still try and make something out of nothing? We need competition at the position because we have a ton of question marks. Waiting another year would be the worst way to go imo. Add competition and the best player will play. Maybe it's Moss, Crowder, Dume, or a draft pick.

[claymore]

The guy hasn't done anything in the NFL. Why would we still try and make something out of nothing? We need competition at the position because we have a ton of question marks. Waiting another year would be the worst way to go imo. Add competition and the best player will play. Maybe it's Moss, Crowder, Dume, or a draft pick.

Moss was projected as an OLB in the 3-4 in the draft, I would like to see if he is any good at it before giving up.

Drafting an OLB in the first makes as much sense to me as drafting a QB in the 1st. We have so many positions to fill that we need to give some of these younger guys a chance in a new defense.

[turftoad]

I think he fits better as a rush OLB than a DE.

Moss is exactly why I don't want to take Everett Brown in this years draft.

Brown = Moss.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

I think he fits better as a rush OLB than a DE.

Moss is exactly why I don't want to take Everett Brown in this years draft.

Brown = Moss.

except hes half as strong, not quite as fast, and about 20 lbs lighter



oh ya and he had about half the production Brown did his last year :coffee:

[xzn]

except hes half as strong, not quite as fast, and about 20 lbs lighter



oh ya and he had about half the production Brown did his last year :coffee:

Brown is 250. Are you stating that Jarvis is only 230:confused:


Other than that, I agree with your point;)

[dogfish]

I think he fits better as a rush OLB than a DE.

Moss is exactly why I don't want to take Everett Brown in this years draft.

Brown = Moss.



nah. . . . if anybody in this draft = moss, it's definitely michael johnson. . . .

[turftoad]

nah. . . . if anybody in this draft = moss, it's definitely michael johnson. . . .

100% argee with that too.

Johnsons stock has been falling very fast the closer the draft gets.

[Bill Devaroe]

I think Moss could still be a decent DE somewhere else in the league.
He just doesn't fit our system.


I agree if by league you mean the CFL or arena league,

He sucks balls

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Everette Brown and Jarvis Moss are not similar players.

[Lonestar]

Just appears to be just one more epic bust of GM mikeys pathetic regime.

Does it surprise anyone that the guy that was inactive for most of last year is beating out someone that mikey actually spent two draft chioces on.

Yeah lets here from the fire Josh group and bring back the mastermind crowd.
Ahahahahahahaha

[turftoad]

Sources: Chiefs Trying To Trade Down
The Kansas City Chiefs are actively trying to trade the third overall pick in this weekend’s draft, a league source close to the situation has just informed me.

Whether or not there will be any takers remains to be seen. This news comes just one day after our own Matt Bowen reported that the St. Louis Rams are trying to trade the second overall selection in this year’s draft.

In addition, I’ve also learned that the Denver Broncos are shopping defensive ends Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder.

Moss, a second year veteran out of the University of Florida, has only started 1 game in the past two seasons. In addition, Moss only amassed 12 tackles in 2008, according to NFL.com.

Crowder, a second year vet out of the University of Texas, only appeared in 19 total games for the Broncos since being drafted.

More on these stories as they develop.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/sources-chiefs-trying-to-trade-down/

[SBboundBRONCOS]

nah. . . . if anybody in this draft = moss, it's definitely michael johnson. . . .

in terms of what

[bcbronc]

Sources: Chiefs Trying To Trade Down
The Kansas City Chiefs are actively trying to trade the third overall pick in this weekend’s draft, a league source close to the situation has just informed me.

Whether or not there will be any takers remains to be seen. This news comes just one day after our own Matt Bowen reported that the St. Louis Rams are trying to trade the second overall selection in this year’s draft.

In addition, I’ve also learned that the Denver Broncos are shopping defensive ends Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder.

Moss, a second year veteran out of the University of Florida, has only started 1 game in the past two seasons. In addition, Moss only amassed 12 tackles in 2008, according to NFL.com.

Crowder, a second year vet out of the University of Texas, only appeared in 19 total games for the Broncos since being drafted.

More on these stories as they develop.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/sources-chiefs-trying-to-trade-down/

Crowder might have some mid-round value. He did have a good rookie season. a team that is decent at developing their DL might take a chance on him.

But Moss wouldn't garner more than a 7th rounder I'd guess. there's no pro-tape on him that would give a team reason to think he's going to turn into a player. Doesn't mean he won't, but looking at our roster situation/regime change/previous game film, Moss is clearly on the bubble. why trade for him when you can wait a week and sign him as a UFA.

[topscribe]

Crowder might have some mid-round value. He did have a good rookie season. a team that is decent at developing their DL might take a chance on him.

But Moss wouldn't garner more than a 7th rounder I'd guess. there's no pro-tape on him that would give a team reason to think he's going to turn into a player. Doesn't mean he won't, but looking at our roster situation/regime change/previous game film, Moss is clearly on the bubble. why trade for him when you can wait a week and sign him as a UFA.

Knowing what I know now, I just wonder what they were smoking when they
traded up to get Moss in the draft in the first place . . .

-----

[honz]

I was gonna say I wouldn't put much stock into the pre-camp depth chart, but if it is true that we are shopping them then they may just never find a place here in Denver. It would be truly unfortunate to waste 2 picks on Jarvis Moss and have him do jack squat for us...Jim Bates can go to hell. :mad:

[shank]

Knowing what I know now, I just wonder what they were smoking when they
traded up to get Moss in the draft in the first place . . .

-----

i wondered that knowing what i knew THEN

[BroncoNut]

I never liked his name. He sounds like a wizard or a cartoon character of sorts.

[topscribe]

i wondered that knowing what i knew THEN

That was my problem: I knew nothing back then.



Which was slightly less than I know now. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Goofies/Dunce2520Cap25201-1.jpg



-----

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Denver would be lucky to get a conditional draft choice for either of them. Shit, Foxworth started for us and could only garner a seventh. If we got anything for Moss or Crowder I'd be surprised.

[broncfn90]

he was a bust a mother ****ing bust

[underrated29]

Let look at that draft. OMFG!

1st rd + picks we traded for moss- cut or trade for a 7th.
2nd rd- crowder- bust or traded for 7th rd.

4th rd- thomas- our only keeper.

We could have selected numerous players with our 1,2,3 picks instead we just pissed them away.

[BroncoNut]

Let look at that draft. OMFG!

1st rd + picks we traded for moss- cut or trade for a 7th.
2nd rd- crowder- bust or traded for 7th rd.

4th rd- thomas- our only keeper.

We could have selected numerous players with our 1,2,3 picks instead we just pissed them away.

Like a wise man once told me, busts are like yeast infections. You never see them coming and you can do your best to minimize them, but in the end, they have always occurred and will continue to occur.

[dogfish]

in terms of what


they're very similar. . . one-year starters whose high draft status was (is) based more on projection because of their skill sets than production at the college level-- moss had 7.5 sacks his senior season, johnson had 9. . . both touted as fast and athletic. . . both have very rangy frames, struggle to play with leverage, and have problems adding weight and bulk. . . extensive injury histories in both cases. . . both dinged by scouts for not playing with power and being soft against the run. . . questions in both cases about their football temperament and desire. . . if you read their scouting reports, they may as well be carbon copies. . . .

tell me which scouting report is for johnson, and which is for moss:




____ has a tremendous upside and playmaker potential as a pass rusher off the edge. He displays a quick burst off the edge, which allows him to set up wide of the tackle and easily shed the block to disrupt the quarterback. His quickness and agility allows him to slide down the line of scrimmage in pursuit of the ball carrier. ____ has the ability to drop into coverage based in athleticism and natural instincts. He will clearly need to bulk up to compete as an every down defensive end at the next level. ____ often has difficulty shedding offensive linemen once engaged. He needs to develop additional pass rushing moves and avoid his dependency to beat his opponents on sheer speed alone. ____ is probably better suited to move to outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme to showcase his athleticism and playmaking abilities. ____ could go as high as a mid first round pick, but should definitely be gone by the second round.


Even though he is a little undersized for a defensive end, ____ graded out as a third round selection had he opted to head to the NFL last season. At 6-6 he has the frame to add more weight, but he has been doing perfectly fine hovering around the 250 to 260 pound range. Few ends can match ____ speed and athleticism, but he has to start producing at the college level if he wants to remain a first round prospect.


POSTIVES: Ideally sized to become a 3-4 OLB he would need to add weight to become a 4-3 DE. ____ biggest asset is his quickness. He moves quick after the snap and can consistently beat offensive tackles outside, and if he can find a lane in pass-rushing will consistently connect. He plays with good leverage (?? :lol: ), which maximizes his strength, and has good ability to change direction and closes quickly on the quarterback. With rangy arms at 6′6″ ____ has good height and does a great job of getting his hands up to cut off throwing lanes. Can run down plays from the backside.

NEGATIVES: Has trouble overpowering blockers, has had trouble shedding blocks once offensive linemen connect. Only started one year in college and could have durability concerns, due to a few nagging injuries but not enough to a fall in the draft.


Strengths: A specimen as a prospect, ____ has the tools to be a special player. He’s athletic for a defensive end and has good quickness off the snap. Great initial burst to beat slower offensive linemen. Incredibly long-limbed player. Can cover a lot of ground quickly. Does a good job when he keeps low and can dip under offensive tackles. Sound tackler. Does a great job getting his hands up against passes and kicks.

Weaknesses: Motor has been inconsistent throughout his career. Still has a ways to go against the run. Possesses the frame of a basketball player, which he was in high school. Susceptible to cut blocks. Some speculate he should move to outside linebacker for 3-4 team, but he might be too much of a project in that role. Good strength, but could get stronger in his torso.

Final word: ____ play as a pro will be determined by how hard he wants to work. If he plays hard every play and learns more pass rush moves, he could be a consistent Pro Bowler. As it stands, he’ll enter the NFL as something of a project who will need to get stronger. Some consider him an 3-4 outside linebacker, but he would be best served by adding 10 to 15 pounds of mass and staying as an end.



Strengths
____ biggest asset is his size, as he uses his tall, lengthy frame and his extremely long arms to take up quite a bit of space wherever he is at on the field.

With that size comes gifted athletic skill, as his 4.7 speed gives him an advantage around the end, something that is vital to his pass-rushing abilities. In several instances in college ____ was able to get around the end just with his explosive speed at the snap, something that became a huge problem for opposing defenses in 200_.

His quarterback pursuit skills are very good because of his bursts of speed and his ability to change direction quickly. Once he gets around the corner, his speed and size make him a tough defender to avoid. Quarterbacks always seemed to have trouble slipping an inpending ____ sack, something that is one of his strengths.

____ also showed ability to play back in zone blitz coverages. With his big frame and athleticism, this could be a good asset to have if used as an OLB.

Also with his long arms ____ can be a pain for the opposition on special teams.

Weaknesses
One knock on ____ was that he only used his speed at the snap to get to the quarterback in his college career, something that NFL teams may be concerned about. One thing that he will need to improve upon is his moves on the defensive line to shed big offensive linemen in the pros if he can't get around the corner quickly.

This will come with time, as he may not have the strength needed to automatically become an excellent pass-rusher from the beginning. Shedding blockers with his physical strength should be considered a weakness coming into the NFL.

Thoughts on the Future
____ could make a fine NFL player, especially if he gains some strength on a pro conditioning plan and improves on the technical skills needed to be a good pass-rusher at the pro level.

As time goes on I could see him filling out a little more (if he really needs to) depending on what his pro squad wants from him. His past injury should not be a problem, neither short-term nor long-term, so that shouldn't be taken into account by teams who are looking to draft him.


In my opinion ____ would make the biggest impact early on as a pass-rushing OLB. His speed and ability to get up in a quarterback's face with his long arms will be a huge asset at the pro level, something I think he could do better as a linebacker. I also think that he could make a suitable OLB with his knowledge of dropping into zone coverage.

But for depth purposes, of course, I feel you could plug ____ in just as easily as a defensive end and he could make an impact there as well.

Whoever drafts ____ will get a guy who could become an impact pass-rusher early on in his career, as well as the type of guy who could drop back into coverage pretty well. If he improves a few small glitches in his game, he could be one of the better defensive players in this draft, easily.


Strengths:
Has a large rangy frame with extremely long arms...Outstanding athleticism...Great speed...Quick and agile...Terrific range...Explosive with a burst...Does a nice job in pursuit and closes in a hurry...Great leaper and will bat down passes...A terror off the edge...Has shown the ability to make impact plays...Decent production...Has a ton of upside.

Weaknesses:
Lean with average bulk...Isn't very strong, tough or physical...Has a terrible motor...Will get manhandled at times...Almost a non-factor against the run...Is not stout at the point and gets pushed around...Sub par instincts...Runs himself out of plays...Limited experience...Plays with poor leverage...Intensity and commitment have been questioned.

[underrated29]

Like a wise man once told me, busts are like yeast infections. You never see them coming and you can do your best to minimize them, but in the end, they have always occurred and will continue to occur.


Nut i want you to yeast infect me in the mouth, you wise man you.

:salute:

[dogfish]

Let look at that draft. OMFG!

1st rd + picks we traded for moss- cut or trade for a 7th.
2nd rd- crowder- bust or traded for 7th rd.

4th rd- thomas- our only keeper.

We could have selected numerous players with our 1,2,3 picks instead we just pissed them away.


hey, what about ryan harris?

starting right tackle, and he played at a very high level last year. . . .




but yea, that draft still sucked. . . . :tsk:

[topscribe]

hey, what about ryan harris?

starting right tackle, and he played at a very high level last year. . . .




but yea, that draft still sucked. . . . :tsk:

Well actually, you have a point. With Harris' production, you could consider him the equivalent of a #1.

And who knows about Thomas? With a breakout year this year . . .



But somehow that doesn't seem to wash away all the bitter taste . . . :tsk:



-----

[silkamilkamonico]

Rumors circulating that Denver is shopping both both Crowder and Moss.

Thanks a lot Goodmans or whoever "scouted" these guys.

Thanks a lot to defensive coaching staff and their inability to develop them.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/sources-chiefs-trying-to-trade-down/

EDIT: Just saw Turftoad posted this a page back.

[Peerless]

Jarvis Moss sucks.

[Lonestar]

Crowder might have some mid-round value. He did have a good rookie season. a team that is decent at developing their DL might take a chance on him.

But Moss wouldn't garner more than a 7th rounder I'd guess. there's no pro-tape on him that would give a team reason to think he's going to turn into a player. Doesn't mean he won't, but looking at our roster situation/regime change/previous game film, Moss is clearly on the bubble. why trade for him when you can wait a week and sign him as a UFA.

and not get his contract starting fresh for almost nothing..

[Lonestar]

Knowing what I know now, I just wonder what they were smoking when they
traded up to get Moss in the draft in the first place . . .

-----

I asked that day one and considering he had a staff infection that apparently never completely cleared up just another DAFT choice from mikey etal..

[Dortoh]

We would be lucky to get a conditional 2nd day pick in 2010 for either of these guys. For that reason alone I would vote to keep them and see if either can adapt to the new system. If not cut your loses and move on.

[topscribe]

I asked that day one and considering he had a staff infection that apparently never completely cleared up just another DAFT choice from mikey etal..

Good as they were at evaluating offensive talent, they apparently should
have outsourced their defensive evaluations . . .

-----

[Lonestar]

Good as they were at evaluating offensive talent, they apparently should
have outsourced their defensive evaluations . . .

-----

well now that you bring it up..
2006
jay is gone, Scheffler may be gone, Marshall a head case so far, Hixon an almost star somewhere else, KUPER a star drafted in the fifth, eslinger where are you?
2008
Clady, Royale super stars.. Lichtensteiger jury is out Larsen as a FB,


Not so sure the goodmans were as good as they were cracked up to be..

Like most of mikey DAFT choices over the years most were gone from the squad before they got to new contract time..

[powderaddict]

well now that you bring it up..
2006
jay is gone, Scheffler may be gone, Marshall a head case so far, Hixon an almost star somewhere else, KUPER a star drafted in the fifth, eslinger where are you?
2008
Clady, Royale super stars.. Lichtensteiger jury is out Larsen as a FB,


Not so sure the goodmans were as good as they were cracked up to be..

Like most of mikey DAFT choices over the years most were gone from the squad before they got to new contract time..

They did parlay the #11 pick into 2 firsts and a third, Marshall has had great production (although he is a head case), Kuper is a starter (and playing very well). I'd say that's a damn good draft.

[Lonestar]

They did parlay the #11 pick into 2 firsts and a third, Marshall has had great production (although he is a head case), Kuper is a starter (and playing very well). I'd say that's a damn good draft.


overall yes but it is very typical of mikeys DAFT choice s not being here for their second contract..

BTW many have advocated getting rid of Marshall while he has any trading value..

[bcbronc]

well now that you bring it up..
2006
jay is gone, Scheffler may be gone, Marshall a head case so far, Hixon an almost star somewhere else, KUPER a star drafted in the fifth, eslinger where are you?
..

come on JR, call it like it is. sure Scheff has some injury concerns, and Marshall has some off the field issues to deal with. But as far as evaluating talent, they were pretty bang on in that draft. Name a better QB, TE and WR taken that draft. Hixon has become a great pick for a 4th rounder, he just needed to get his head back on straight after ending a guy's career. and Kuper, like you say, a star.

Okay we missed on Eslinger, big frickin deal.

but I do agree that the Goodman's weren't the Cheez Whiz some made them out to be. But the draft above is pretty much flawless, even with Jay pouting his way to Chicago.

[Lonestar]

come on JR, call it like it is. sure Scheff has some injury concerns, and Marshall has some off the field issues to deal with. But as far as evaluating talent, they were pretty bang on in that draft. Name a better QB, TE and WR taken that draft. Hixon has become a great pick for a 4th rounder, he just needed to get his head back on straight after ending a guy's career. and Kuper, like you say, a star.

Okay we missed on Eslinger, big frickin deal.

but I do agree that the Goodman's weren't the Cheez Whiz some made them out to be. But the draft above is pretty much flawless, even with Jay pouting his way to Chicago.

As I have said many times in the past.. most of mikeys pick never see a second contract with DEN.. So just because they make a huge splash initially does not make them terrific draft choices.. IF they are not LONG term players unless they are traded for CHAMP like replacements what do they accomplish.. They failed to be worthy of choices for us.. They did not either make it because of injuries, attitude, fit or they just sucked talent wise..

[dogfish]

JR complaining about shanahan's drafts, gee what a surprise!



let it go already, man-- you won, he's gone, it's over. . . .


:welcome:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

On a side note, I can't put all the blame on Moss/Crowder for having the "bust look" right now. Two different defensive coordinators. This is the type of thing that will happen when you do not commit to a defensive scheme.

[topscribe]

well now that you bring it up..
2006
jay is gone, Scheffler may be gone, Marshall a head case so far, Hixon an almost star somewhere else, KUPER a star drafted in the fifth, eslinger where are you?
2008
Clady, Royale super stars.. Lichtensteiger jury is out Larsen as a FB,


Not so sure the goodmans were as good as they were cracked up to be..

Like most of mikey DAFT choices over the years most were gone from the squad before they got to new contract time..

You're getting confused, JR, and it has you going a bit too far.

Jay is one of the best QBs in the game. Scheffler is a dangerous threat as a
receiving TE, and his blocking has improved significantly. Marshall is a Pro Bowl,
100-receptions-a-year WR. Hixon might be elsewhere, but he has proven his
talent.

And then, you didn't mention Hillis and Portis. And if Harris isn't a superstar,
he is not far off. And there's still Kuper, isn't there? And Eslinger was a 6th
rounder. :whoknows:

The issue, I thought, was judgment of talent for the draft. What has gone on
since is not the issue. The fact is, their offensive acumen for the draft was
great. The defense, not so much . . .

-----

[Lonestar]

On a side note, I can't put all the blame on Moss/Crowder for having the "bust look" right now. Two different defensive coordinators. This is the type of thing that will happen when you do not commit to a defensive scheme.


Actually THREE bates, slowlick and now Nolan..









Well maybe your correct slowick awas not really a DC..:laugh:

[powderaddict]

Well maybe your correct slowick awas not really a DC..:laugh:

No kidding, what was up with that guy?

I remember after Bates was fired saying "At least it can't get any worse!"

Boy was I wrong about that!!

[topscribe]

Actually THREE bates, slowlick and now Nolan..

Well maybe your correct slowick awas not really a DC..:laugh:

You don't have great expectations for Nolan?

I have mixed emotions . . . and hope against hope . . .

-----

[elsid13]

Lets see how this plays out before we jump to conclusions. It's the first mini camp and running with 1st/2nd/3rd team doesn't mean anything yet.

[underrated29]

I am thrilled about NOLAN. Absolutely thrilled. He was a former HC and that can certainly add experience and knowledge to him as a DC. I dont know what intangibles that may be but i know it cant hurt. His defenses have been great and mediocre, but its a normal system 3-4 and he is not a choker.

Bates system was proven but not normal and therefore failed with us. Blowsit's system was proven i guess 4-3 but the way he ran it was the worst i have ever seen. EVER!

So we can now sleep sound on Sat nights knowing that when the team is in 3rd and 5 we will not give them a 12 yard cushon. Nolan will not do that. Plus the man wears a suit and thats intimidating.

[Lonestar]

You're getting confused, JR, and it has you going a bit too far.

Jay is one of the best QBs in the game. Scheffler is a dangerous threat as a
receiving TE, and his blocking has improved significantly. Marshall is a Pro Bowl, 100-receptions-a-year WR. Hixon might be elsewhere, but he has proven his talent.

And then, you didn't mention Hillis and Portis. And if Harris isn't a superstar,
he is not far off. And there's still Kuper, isn't there? And Eslinger was a 6th
rounder. :whoknows:

The issue, I thought, was judgment of talent for the draft. What has gone on
since is not the issue. The fact is, their offensive acumen for the draft was
great. The defense, not so much . . .

-----


As I said above many players seem to be good to great coming out.. But very very of them last into a second contract.. which frankly is how we should be building the team via th draft.. If they do not stick around then are they really worth drafting afterall..

If they are lost o injury after playing that is one thing.. But to be a weak sister coming in IE Watts.. or moss then it is another thing all together..

As for poorti$$$ I was just really using the Goodman's record as a reference point since everyone one was having orgasms about how great they were..

As for jay I'm not all that sold he is nothing more than a rocket armed greasy head case.. which means Jeff George.. a coach killer.. time will tell on him..

Yep I forgot Hillis but then he was not supposed to be anything but a blocking FB.. they totally screwed the pooch on that one. :laugh: same goes for Larsen as a FB..

about the only thing I can say or BELIEVE will happen is we at least got our OLINE fixed while the Goodman's were here. the rest not so sure although Royal for a slot receiver he was drafted to be looks like the only long term legit offensive weapon we got..

[Dortoh]

Actually THREE bates, slowlick and now Nolan..









Well maybe your correct slowick awas not really a DC..:laugh:

Very true

but to be fair to slowick he is a pretty damn good DB coach just a shitty DC


Wait did I just defend him :laugh:

[Lonestar]

You don't have great expectations for Nolan?

I have mixed emotions . . . and hope against hope . . .

-----

Actually I have high expectations from Nolan a proven winner as a DC in the past just like Bates was..

But he was IMHO not mikeys choice I still to this day believe that Pat told him to hire him or someone like him.. and it turned into an I told you so after allowing him to sink with moss, crowder and Thomas around his neck..

He had named slowick as his DC when Bates was hired and then named Assistant HC Defense.. anyone with a brain can figure that move out.. slowick was his man and he wanted bates around like his wife would want a hooker moving in with them..

[topscribe]

I am thrilled about NOLAN. Absolutely thrilled. He was a former HC and that can certainly add experience and knowledge to him as a DC. I dont know what intangibles that may be but i know it cant hurt. His defenses have been great and mediocre, but its a normal system 3-4 and he is not a choker.

Bates system was proven but not normal and therefore failed with us. Blowsit's system was proven i guess 4-3 but the way he ran it was the worst i have ever seen. EVER!

So we can now sleep sound on Sat nights knowing that when the team is in 3rd and 5 we will not give them a 12 yard cushon. Nolan will not do that. Plus the man wears a suit and thats intimidating.

Bates had his ideas about how a defense should be. Trouble is, he didn't have
matching personnel, and it seemed the Broncos didn't have all that much
interest in procuring it.

Nolan also has his ideas, which McD apparently shares (probably the reason
Mcd brought Nolan in). The difference is, they are apparently doing everything
they can to match the personnel to it.

I can only hope they succeed . . .

-----

[Lonestar]

Very true

but to be fair to slowick he is a pretty damn good DB coach just a shitty DC


Wait did I just defend him :laugh:



prove that statement please..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I have pretty high hopes, not expectations right away, with Mike Nolan. When I had my hour long phone conversation with Marques Douglas (DE, NYJ) -- he had nothing but good things to say about him and said that players really enjoy him and buy into his philosophy on defense. I look forward to seeing what he can do here.

[Dortoh]

prove that statement please..

Impossible

[Lonestar]

I have pretty high hopes, not expectations right away, with Mike Nolan. When I had my hour long phone conversation with Marques Douglas (DE, NYJ) -- he had nothing but good things to say about him and said that players really enjoy him and buy into his philosophy on defense. I look forward to seeing what he can do here.

I just can;t see how anyone could have high expectation of the 2009 defense other than they will be somewhat better than 2008..

and in that I mean not huge blowouts..

there will be a huge learning curve especially if we draft nothing but D on day one..

I can live with rookies mistakes as long as they are trying to make the play..
But to expect anything more than a #25 type defense the first year is like still believing in the tooth fairy..

[Lonestar]

Impossible

about the only thing I can say positive about him was a comment from Champ saying he was a great coach..

But beyond that I have never seen anything numbers wise to show he was worth a crap as a DB coach let alone DC..

Must be mikeys brother in law or something..

[Dortoh]

I just can;t see how anyone could have high expectation of the 2009 defense other than they will be somewhat better than 2008..

and in that I mean not huge blowouts..

there will be a huge learning curve especially if we draft nothing but D on day one..

I can live with rookies mistakes as long as they are trying to make the play..
But to expect anything more than a #25 type defense the first year is like still believing in the tooth fairy..

I have to agree with this. Way to many changes coming down the pipe this season. I just hope they give Nolan a few years to get the ship righted. Consistancy is so important on defense.

Personally I love the direction were heading as long as we get some young defensive talent in the draft.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Expectations for improvement are realistic, but I agree with you that we won't see anything really special. Too many missing pieces and the learning curve for incoming and returning players will be there as you mentioned. I think with the additions we made and if we can make a few more in the draft, we could potentially see a defense in the top half of the league. I'm skeptic, but hopeful. It would take a catastrophe of biblical proportions to be as terrible as we were last year.

[Lonestar]

Expectations for improvement are realistic, but I agree with you that we won't see anything really special. Too many missing pieces and the learning curve for incoming and returning players will be there as you mentioned. I think with the additions we made and if we can make a few more in the draft, we could potentially see a defense in the top half of the league. I'm skeptic, but hopeful. It would take a catastrophe of biblical proportions to be as terrible as we were last year.

Hey I always Hope for the sky but realize a few hundred feet is more like what we will see.

If we draft D on day one a those players for the most part should be starters by the BYE week..

I do not see with eh brutal schedule coming up in 2009 to believe our Defense will be much more than a #25 rating for much of the year..

[Dortoh]

Hey I always Hope for the sky but realize a few hundred feet is more like what we will see.

If we draft D on day one a those players for the most part should be starters by the BYE week..

I do not see with eh brutal schedule coming up in 2009 to believe our Defense will be much more than a #25 rating for much of the year..

With the talent level of this defense I could easily see 2 day one picks starting opening weekend.

Especially if they take my mock draft advice seriously :D

[Lonestar]

With the talent level of this defense I could easily see 2 day one picks starting opening weekend.

Especially if they take my mock draft advice seriously :D

WTH we have not talent level I could see 5 day one picks staring in SEPT but was not trying to be to optimistic..

I remember a few year s ago stating #1 choices should be starters to get jumped on by folks saying that #1 choices need to wait a few years to start..

Of course I was debating ashley at the time.. so I guess they were right afterall..

If we are drafting for replacing a Weigmann type going to be around a year or so and then retire then no they should not start..

but the talent level on this squad out side of OLINE not counting Hamilton any day one picks should be instant starters..

[dogfish]

I just can;t see how anyone could have high expectation of the 2009 defense other than they will be somewhat better than 2008..

and in that I mean not huge blowouts..

there will be a huge learning curve especially if we draft nothing but D on day one..

I can live with rookies mistakes as long as they are trying to make the play..
But to expect anything more than a #25 type defense the first year is like still believing in the tooth fairy..


wait, what are you trying to say about the tooth fairy?

[Lonestar]

wait, what are you trying to say about the tooth fairy?


That you better stop taking pictures of her and posting them..

[bcbronc]

Very true

but to be fair to slowick he is a pretty damn good DB coach just a shitty DC


Wait did I just defend him :laugh:

Dortoh <3 Slowick.


:love:

:hug:

[rcsodak]

If that's true then it's been our pathetic defensive staff that's the problem. Moss has been given plenty of time to come along.
Maybe Nolan and crew can get him straitened out... fingers crossed

Do you people NOT remember the circumstances surronding Moss, when he was drafted?

Add to that, his first year he got hurt and missed most of the season, so last year was his 'rookie' year.

As for Crowder, he HAS no excuses....he just plain sux ass...

...just like every other Shorthorn player.

[rcsodak]

This was the last draft pick I really got mad over. I remember I had just got done grilling some burgers and brats when I was living at my old place, sharing some laughs just wondering who the Broncos were going to pick. I then saw them move up with Jacksonville, saw who they picked and what they gave up and ended up going pretty nutso.

Guy was above-average when he "started" in college, which wasn't that much. Barely ever developed physically because he had something wrong with him constantly. Not a weight room type guy. He had long arms and a great first step off the line which really helped him with his pass rush. However, he doesn't have many pass rushing moves. Mental toughness was always questioned as well.

Denver was desperate for a pass rusher, so they reached for Moss who many people argued had the next best potential outside Gaines Adams. Unfortunately, the kicker was whether or not he could stay healthy enough to develop and see the field and realize it. That hasn't been the case, and I assume that it won't be the case this year.

What an awful pick.

Did Crowder see the field last year? :confused:

[turftoad]

Do you people NOT remember the circumstances surronding Moss, when he was drafted?

Add to that, his first year he got hurt and missed most of the season, so last year was his 'rookie' year.

As for Crowder, he HAS no excuses....he just plain sux ass...

...just like every other Shorthorn player.

This guy played opposite of Crowder for the Longhorns. Was drafted the same year in the 4th round.

Guess we should have taken him instead of Crowder.

Brian Robison
Position: Defensive End L
Height: 6-3
Weight: 267
NFL Years: 2
College: Texas
Hometown: Splendora, TX





Games and Starts31 games/5 starts

Professional BiographyBecame the 5th DE the Vikings have selected in the top 4 rounds of the draft in the past 4 seasons...Was the last Vikings player to sack Brett Farve while he was a Packer…Ranked 3rd among rookies in 2007 with 4.5 sacks, earning a selection to the All-Rookie team.



NFL History
2008 Had a team-best 7 QB hurries in the Wild Card Playoffs vs. Philadelphia (1/4/09), also registering 2 solo tackles, and a tackle for a loss…Made lone start of season in Wild Card game vs. Philadelphia, replacing injured Ray Edwards at LDE…Notched his second sack and 1st forced fumble of the year when he knocked the ball free from Cardinals QB Kurt Warner @ Arizona (12/14)…Recorded his first sack of 2008 when he pulled down Aaron Rodgers vs. Green Bay (11/9)….Saw action in 15 of the 16 regular season games as All-Pro DE Jared Allen’s primary backup…Sat out with an injury @ Detroit (12/7).



2007 Earned spot on Pro Football Weekly’s All-Rookie Team and started 5 games...Opened the final 4 straight games at RDE and started 1st career game at Detroit (9/16) at LDE...Ranked 3rd in the NFL for sacks among rookies with 4.5...Burst onto the scene with 2.0 sacks in the regular season opener vs. Atlanta (9/9)...Sacked Packers QB Brett Favre (9/30) on the day he broke the NFL TD passes record...Sacked former Vikings QB Daunte Culpepper vs. Oakland (11/18) and forced a fumble that was recovered by LB Chad Greenway...Had 5 tackles at San Francisco (12/9), his season-high.

[rcsodak]

Let look at that draft. OMFG!

1st rd + picks we traded for moss- cut or trade for a 7th.
2nd rd- crowder- bust or traded for 7th rd.

4th rd- thomas- our only keeper.

We could have selected numerous players with our 1,2,3 picks instead we just pissed them away.

Gee....just think....


....they could have been NE and tried to draft wr's. :coffee:

[Lonestar]

Gee....just think....


....they could have been NE and tried to draft WR's. :coffee:



No wait they did and the list is long and odorous..

[bcbronc]

Did Crowder see the field last year? :confused:

he had a good rookie season. considering the Team FUBAR we had on the defensive side of the ball last year (and how injury fill-ins constantly out-played the guy they were replacing) I wouldn't write him off just yet.