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Medford Bronco
04-20-2009, 06:44 AM
If I hear that again, I am going to scream.

I hate pro athetes that are greedy jerks like Crybaby Jay.

This week Med lost his job and he has a full family to support on one income and I work my ass of and gave my heart to my company. and I have 7 year old with autism. Life basically sucks right now but hey that is they way the coookie crumbles. I dont have a Bus Cook or Scott Boras to do my dirty work for me. They suck those two aholes


any pro football player or athlete who shoots his way out of a situation
is a scumbag loser. Honor your deal or is your two million or whatever it is not enough $$ for you:rolleyes::tsk:

yes I am bitter right now and have every right to be at any spoiled athlete who has been given everything in his life but does not have the brains to realize HOW LUCKY THEY ARE

Rant over, I am sure I will get flamed but who cares.

It just shows that no matter how hard you work or loyal you are, no matter what you are just a number at a company and can be replaced at any time.

When these pro athetes get cut they get millions usually as a buyout so no sympathy from me ever.

This is for the Jay Cutlers, TOs and any other scummy athete. I just wish you work in the real world for one year, then you might appreciate your gifts a bit better instead of being a diva spolied little school girl

KCL
04-20-2009, 02:55 PM
I hear you Med.I am sorry to hear the bad news.Hang in there...easier said than done sometimes.

Thinking of you and wishing the best for you and your family!

Nomad
04-20-2009, 03:21 PM
I stand beside you in your thoughts about these players. I went off in a thread in the NFL discussions forums, and I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers for you and your family.

DallasChief
04-20-2009, 03:24 PM
To play devil's advocate, do you get equally upset with the team when they ask a player to restructure or be cut?

Thnikkaman
04-20-2009, 03:26 PM
To play devil's advocate, do you get equally upset with the team when they ask a player to restructure or be cut?

Or should you be mad at the Players Union who couldn't have negotiated Guaranteed Contracts?

DallasChief
04-20-2009, 03:28 PM
Or should you be mad at the Players Union who couldn't have negotiated Guaranteed Contracts?

Guaranteed contracts would be the worst thing to happen to the league.

BigDaddyBronco
04-20-2009, 03:29 PM
To play devil's advocate, do you get equally upset with the team when they ask a player to restructure or be cut?
I don't have an issue with players holding out in the NFL. I love how teams play the "Those are the terms of the deal, you should have thought about it when you signed." Or "That's the nature of the NFL." But it is the exact opposite when a guy gets injured and they cut him the next season so they don't have to pay the $3 million dollar roster bonus.

I never have issues with guys in the NFL trying to restructure their deals.

In the NBA or MLB it is a different story as they have guaranteed deals. They can go to hell.

Thnikkaman
04-20-2009, 03:35 PM
Guaranteed contracts would be the worst thing to happen to the league.

I agree.

As to your question, it would depend on if I was being singled out or if everyone at my level was being asked to do so. Then it would be the question of leaving something that I like to do and potentially moving across country to get a job that I might enjoy, or staying on. I guess it would depend on the pay cut, but I would definitely consider it.

Medford Bronco
04-20-2009, 03:36 PM
To play devil's advocate, do you get equally upset with the team when they ask a player to restructure or be cut?

screw them they are high paid professionals and if they are not dumb then they will have plenty of $$ to live on to support their families.

DallasChief
04-20-2009, 03:37 PM
I agree.

As to your question, it would depend on if I was being singled out or if everyone at my level was being asked to do so. Then it would be the question of leaving something that I like to do and potentially moving across country to get a job that I might enjoy, or staying on. I guess it would depend on the pay cut, but I would definitely consider it.

That's an answer to my question?

DallasChief
04-20-2009, 03:40 PM
screw them they are high paid professionals and if they are not dumb then they will have plenty of $$ to live on to support their families.

So contracts are something that the high paid athlete should adhere to, no matter what, but not the low-income football franchise?

In the NFL, you have to get what you can get when you can get it because your career could end in the blink of an eye.

Thnikkaman
04-20-2009, 03:42 PM
That's an answer to my question?

Here's the huge difference. If an NFL player looses a couple of million dollars (unless he is an idiot with money), he is still going to be able to support his family. If I loose a few thousand dollars a year, its going to be a big difference in how I am going to be able to live.

So yeah, it means that I need to know the situation before I blindly say yes or no.

DallasChief
04-20-2009, 03:48 PM
Here's the huge difference. If an NFL player looses a couple of million dollars (unless he is an idiot with money), he is still going to be able to support his family. If I loose a few thousand dollars a year, its going to be a big difference in how I am going to be able to live.

So yeah, it means that I need to know the situation before I blindly say yes or no.
:confused:

So, when deciding whose side you take in a contract disagreement between an individual worth a couple of million dollars and a franchise worth hundreds of millions of dollars, your personal situation factors into it?

BigDaddyBronco
04-20-2009, 03:49 PM
Here's the huge difference. If an NFL player looses a couple of million dollars (unless he is an idiot with money), he is still going to be able to support his family. If I loose a few thousand dollars a year, its going to be a big difference in how I am going to be able to live.

So yeah, it means that I need to know the situation before I blindly say yes or no.

Can you get your neck broken at work?

Nomad
04-20-2009, 03:49 PM
Here's the huge difference. If an NFL player looses a couple of million dollars (unless he is an idiot with money), he is still going to be able to support his family. If I loose a few thousand dollars a year, its going to be a big difference in how I am going to be able to live.

So yeah, it means that I need to know the situation before I blindly say yes or no.

Maybe NFL players should change their spending habits, if they worry their career could end tomorrow!! Teams should be penalized if they cut players for no reason, but if it's because of lack of production then the player should have done better. As far as injuries, the player needs to put the language in the contract so they won't be screwed.

Nomad
04-20-2009, 03:51 PM
Can you get your neck broken at work?

Yes! Or electrocuted!

BigDaddyBronco
04-20-2009, 03:54 PM
Maybe NFL players should change their spending habits, if they worry their career could end tomorrow!! Teams should be penalized if they cut players for no reason, but if it's because of lack of production then the player should have done better. As far as injuries, the player needs to put the language in the contract so they won't be screwed.
Most players have insurance that covers medical costs and the such, but your quality of life just sucks when you are 40 years old and can barely walk. And from a money standpoint, they are just getting paid what the market says they are worth. A football player gets paid more than a teacher because 1 out of 100,000 Americans can play in the NFL, but 1 out of 25 can be a teacher.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-20-2009, 04:09 PM
Med - my best to you and your family. Hope things get better for you real soon.

As far as being overpaid - let's not forget the movie stars as well as entertainers

Thnikkaman
04-20-2009, 04:55 PM
:confused:

So, when deciding whose side you take in a contract disagreement between an individual worth a couple of million dollars and a franchise worth hundreds of millions of dollars, your personal situation factors into it?

I don't think I worded that correctly.

If I'm an NFL player, I am in a place I love, and we have a chance to be successful, there is a good chance I will restructure. If I'm in Detroit, I leave.

Thnikkaman
04-20-2009, 05:00 PM
Can you get your neck broken at work?

Is it possible, yes. Is it likely, no.

I think its great that they are getting better compensation than players did in the 60s and 70s. But there is a fine line between adequate compensation for their risk in injury and fleecing the fan base.

There is a job far more dangerous than playing in the NFL in which you are lowered on a platform that is hung from a helicopter where you work on high voltage power lines. You risk the possibility of falling off the platform and breaking several bones in your body, or having MegaWatts of electricity course through your body and experience severe nerve damage or death. I am sure that they make way less than the base pay of any NFL player.

topscribe
04-20-2009, 05:08 PM
To play devil's advocate, do you get equally upset with the team when they ask a player to restructure or be cut?

I don't because the team generally does it for CAP space in an effort to
improve the team. That is in the player's interest, as well as everyone else's,
since winning is supposed to be the most important objective to everyone
associated with the team. What other reason is there for their existence?

Conversely, when a player wants a new contract, it's for himself. Period. If he
is not happy with his contract, he should have thought of that when he
signed it. He was of age when he signed it, and so was his agent.

So maybe he ought to fire his agent instead. :coffee:

-----

BroncoJoe
04-20-2009, 05:14 PM
Sorry to hear this, Med. And even sorrier for some of the answers here.

Football players make a choice to play and risk their lives/health. Are they at risk? Of course. They also get paid accordingly.

Don't like the original deal? Don't sign it.

DallasChief
04-20-2009, 05:16 PM
I don't because the team generally does it for CAP space in an effort to
improve the team. That is in the player's interest, as well as everyone else's,
since winning is supposed to be the most important objective to everyone
associated with the team. What other reason is there for their existence?

Conversely, when a player wants a new contract, it's for himself. Period. If he
is not happy with his contract, he should have thought of that when he
signed it. He was of age when he signed it, and so was his agent.

So maybe he ought to fire his agent instead. :coffee:

-----

Mismanagement of the CAP is not the fault of the player.

If a team feels they are overpaying for a particular player they shouldn't have offered the player such a high contract.

And if a GM is having problems managing the team's CAP space, maybe they should find a new profession.

Bronco Bible
04-20-2009, 05:54 PM
Med my thoughts & prayers are with you hope the job thing rights itself quickly........... hang in there bud............:salute:

BroncoJoe
04-20-2009, 05:57 PM
Mismanagement of the CAP is not the fault of the player.

If a team feels they are overpaying for a particular player they shouldn't have offered the player such a high contract.

And if a GM is having problems managing the team's CAP space, maybe they should find a new profession.

So, you're running a business and have one superstar, but need the additional support of "trench" employees to continue to be successful because this single person can't do everything.

Do you pay the superstar, which leads to cutting/reducing your support staff and/or replacing them with people that may cost you business, or let the "superstar" leave, replace him/her with someone who can do the same job but cheaper?

Players cause the cap-space problems with their demands as much as management.

topscribe
04-20-2009, 06:03 PM
Mismanagement of the CAP is not the fault of the player.

If a team feels they are overpaying for a particular player they shouldn't have offered the player such a high contract.

And if a GM is having problems managing the team's CAP space, maybe they should find a new profession.

That's true. I agree 100%.

However, who's at fault is not at issue. The motivation for renegotiating is.
The team does it to improve the team with better players, whereas the player
does it to make more money, or to satisfy his ego by making as much as his
peers. One is for the good of the team, and the other is purely selfish.

That is why I resent a player's demand for a new contract he had signed, but
not so much a team's request to renegotiate for CAP space, which happens
often when a player's performance has not been as what the FO had hoped.

But your implication is correct, IMO: there has been a lot of irresponsibility in
the way certain GMs have run certain teams . . .

-----

pumpdoc
04-20-2009, 08:01 PM
Med, sorry too hear that. I agree with you.

BeefStew25
04-20-2009, 08:09 PM
I will never resent anyone's success because of my failings, especially since I don't equate success with money earned.

Medford Bronco
04-20-2009, 08:40 PM
I will never resent anyone's success because of my failings, especially since I don't equate success with money earned.

Yeah I use the $$ to pay my bills and support my family like most
that are here.

Its not my failings its the economy that got me screwed. I worked my ass of and will always work my ass off.

Pro athletes like Jay that God gave a gift have been given everything in life. They just dont appreciate it thats all

BeefStew25
04-20-2009, 08:45 PM
Yeah I use the $$ to pay my bills and support my family like most
that are here.

Its not my failings its the economy that got me screwed. I worked my ass of and will always work my ass off.

Pro athletes like Jay that God gave a gift have been given everything in life. They just dont appreciate it thats all

My point is that money doesn't equal happiness.

I would also state that you maybe need to not watch pro sports if what they make chews you up.

slim
04-20-2009, 08:51 PM
Sorry to hear that, med.

Hang in there. Things will turn around.

BeefStew25
04-20-2009, 08:55 PM
Med, a quick aside, if your company blows, being free from them is so much better in the long run.

Dreadnought
04-21-2009, 05:01 AM
Med, I'm very sorry to hear that. Best of luck and God Bless you and your family going forward. Beefy Bear has a good point; if this was a crap company than in the long run maybe you are best being done with them.

As far as NFL players go (and this does not apply to MLB or the NBA) I don't view them as overpaid for the most part. Its what the market will bear, and they have pretty damned short careers with most any of them who play more than a few years suffering long term medical problems. A good number have shortened their lives. On top of it they have nearly no job security, and with a lack of guaranteed money - frankly they'd be irresponsible not to cash in as much as they can, esp. those with families.

Carol referenced entertainers, and their salaries piss me off by orders of magnitude more than athletes to be honest. Far more money for frankly not all that much to offer IMO. Again, what the market will bear I suppose, but they sure test the limits of my free market capitalist beliefs :D

Nomad
04-21-2009, 06:45 AM
Still not convinced an NFL player is worth some of the ridiculous money they receive. I know it's all entertainment and mostly supported by fans, merchandising, ticket sales, etc.,but spare me that they really need $46 -$100 million dollars to feed their families and medical and for the agony:lol: and if they don't get the money they'll be in distress! Have this conversation with an iron worker or concrete worker after about 25 yrs, they walk and move around like a 70 yr old man don't have the luxury of millions of dollars to fall back on and if they get hurt and can't work then they'll be lucky to get disability and who knows how short their careers may/can be. Yes pro sports atheletes have gifted abilities and they entertain us on Sundays, but they have careers after the NFL as well.

Dreadnought
04-21-2009, 08:16 AM
Still not convinced an NFL player is worth some of the ridiculous money they receive. I know it's all entertainment and mostly supported by fans, merchandising, ticket sales, etc.,but spare me that they really need $46 -$100 million dollars to feed their families and medical and for the agony:lol: and if they don't get the money they'll be in distress! Have this conversation with an iron worker or concrete worker after about 25 yrs, they walk and move around like a 70 yr old man don't have the luxury of millions of dollars to fall back on and if they get hurt and can't work then they'll be lucky to get disability and who knows how short their careers may/can be. Yes pro sports atheletes have gifted abilities and they entertain us on Sundays, but they have careers after the NFL as well.

The flip side is my cousin, an ECAC All-American Offensive Tackle drafted by the Redskins (6th round IIR back in '81) and suffered such a debilitating shoulder injury in his first training camp that he can't fully lift his left arm above the level of his shoulder now. Needless to say he didn't make the roster either, so he never made squat for money. Most of these guys don't. He played for the Oklahoma Outlaws in the USFL for two years, but that wasn't exactly big bucks there, either. Then there is a case like Cadillac Williams, who probably did OK by rookie contract but is now such damaged goods a couple of years into his career that he'll likely never see a good contract. Or P J Pope; gets the dream chance of a lifetime for us due to luck, averages an amazing 7.6 YPC over a very short time, blows up his knee, and is probably done with football after all of 17 professional carries. There are a lot more of those guys than there are even $2 Million a year players, let alone the guys who rack up those mega contracts

Nomad
04-21-2009, 08:49 AM
The flip side is my cousin, an ECAC All-American Offensive Tackle drafted by the Redskins (6th round IIR back in '81) and suffered such a debilitating shoulder injury in his first training camp that he can't fully lift his left arm above the level of his shoulder now. Needless to say he didn't make the roster either, so he never made squat for money. Most of these guys don't. He played for the Oklahoma Outlaws in the USFL for two years, but that wasn't exactly big bucks there, either. Then there is a case like Cadillac Williams, who probably did OK by rookie contract but is now such damaged goods a couple of years into his career that he'll likely never see a good contract. Or P J Pope; gets the dream chance of a lifetime for us due to luck, averages an amazing 7.6 YPC over a very short time, blows up his knee, and is probably done with football after all of 17 professional carries. There are a lot more of those guys than there are even $2 Million a year players, let alone the guys who rack up those mega contracts


I guess we could go back and forth on comparisons. We choose our own career paths and I don't buy a multi-millionaire struggling to feed/take care of their families regardless of the risks especially when most will have a successful career afterwards. I guess we can agree to disagree!

BTW, I'm not talking the $200,000 a year players wanting to bump their pay up to maybe a million. It's the 'I'm making $5-10 million a year still under contract but want to change my contract to $17 million a year and use the excuse of 'I have to take care of my family':rolleyes:! I guess 20 cars and a 50,000 sq ft house isn't enough! IMO, no player is worth this kind of money!!

Dreadnought
04-21-2009, 08:52 AM
I guess we could go back and forth on comparisons. We choose our own career paths and I don't buy a multi-millionaire struggling to feed/take care of their families regardless of the risks especially when most will have a successful career afterwards. I guess we can agree to disagree!

BTW, I'm not talking the $200,000 a year players wanting to bump their pay up to maybe a million. It's the 'I'm making $5-10 million a year still under contract but want to change my contract to $17 million a year and use the excuse of 'I have to take care of my family':rolleyes:! I guess 20 cars and a 50,000 sq ft house isn't enough! IMO, no player is worth this kind of money!!

Hey - you just try to maintain a kennel full of top notch fighting dogs on only $5 million! Good quality dog food ain't cheap!

I take your point, and we aren't in total disagreement

Ravage!!!
04-21-2009, 09:22 AM
It just shows that no matter how hard you work or loyal you are, no matter what you are just a number at a company and can be replaced at any time.



I think you said it right here, med. Hence why you should actually support players/people that are trying to get as much money as they can, for their families and their family of the future, while their value CAN get that kind of money.

Buff
04-21-2009, 01:30 PM
In principle, I agree with Beef that I don't like to hate on anyone for their success.

But at the same time, when I see guys forfeiting $100,000 (Cutler) or $250,000 (Ochocinco) because they don't want to go workout for their teams, I can't help but hope they blow out their knees and end up selling cars in 5 years. It's not that they shouldn't be allowed to make that kind of $$, but when they are in a position to forfeit that kind of money it shows you that A.)Their salaries are exorbitant and B.) They are ungrateful ********.

claymore
04-21-2009, 01:33 PM
In principle, I agree with Beef that I don't like to hate on anyone for their success.

But at the same time, when I see guys forfeiting $100,000 (Cutler) or $250,000 (Ochocinco) because they don't want to go workout for their teams, I can't help but hope they blow out their knees and end up selling cars in 5 years. It's not that they shouldn't be allowed to make that kind of $$, but when they are in a position to forfeit that kind of money it shows you that A.)Their salaries are exorbitant and B.) They are ungrateful ********.

I would love for them to scale the salaries back to a max of 300K a year. The same talent would play, and they could cut ticket prices by 2/3.

Dreadnought
04-21-2009, 01:38 PM
I would love for them to scale the salaries back to a max of 300K a year. The same talent would play, and they could cut ticket prices by 2/3.

They wouldn't cut ticket prices by even 1/3. Bowlen, Davis, Snyder, Jones, et al. would somply pocket more money. Thats all. No big moral deal to me, but don't expect thats what they'd do :D

Thats another reason I don't get pissed over player salaries. What, I should get outraged because Al Davis is less rich because he paid Javon Walker too much? makes no difference to me at all.

claymore
04-21-2009, 01:42 PM
They wouldn't cut ticket prices by even 1/3. Bowlen, Davis, Snyder, Jones, et al. would somply pocket more money. Thats all. No big moral deal to me, but don't expect thats what they'd do :D

Thats another reason I don't get pissed over player salaries. What, I should get outraged because Al Davis is less rich because he paid Javon Walker too much? makes no difference to me at all.

Well.... In theory they could.... :D But your right.

BeefStew25
04-21-2009, 04:29 PM
I guess we could go back and forth on comparisons. We choose our own career paths and I don't buy a multi-millionaire struggling to feed/take care of their families regardless of the risks especially when most will have a successful career afterwards. I guess we can agree to disagree!

BTW, I'm not talking the $200,000 a year players wanting to bump their pay up to maybe a million. It's the 'I'm making $5-10 million a year still under contract but want to change my contract to $17 million a year and use the excuse of 'I have to take care of my family':rolleyes:! I guess 20 cars and a 50,000 sq ft house isn't enough! IMO, no player is worth this kind of money!!

Guess what: The janitor think you are rich and should cap your income. Sound good?

Thnikkaman
04-21-2009, 04:33 PM
Guess what: The janitor think you are rich and should cap your income. Sound good?

The question comes down to:

Does it bother you enough that you will boycott the NFL? Because really, the players are getting paid that much since the fan base is so large and we throw money at it.

If the janitor feels that way, I will vacuum the floor in my cube, take out my own trash, and use the bathroom at home. And he can go find a new job.

BeefStew25
04-21-2009, 04:43 PM
The question comes down to:

Does it bother you enough that you will boycott the NFL? Because really, the players are getting paid that much since the fan base is so large and we throw money at it.

If the janitor feels that way, I will vacuum the floor in my cube, take out my own trash, and use the bathroom at home. And he can go find a new job.

Exactly.

If you hate them that bad, flip the TV off.

Nomad
04-21-2009, 04:44 PM
Guess what: The janitor think you are rich and should cap your income. Sound good?

Sure I complain about having millions of dollars and feeding my family in the same sentence! Stupid analogy using the janitor!!

DallasChief
04-21-2009, 04:47 PM
Sure I complain about having millions of dollars and feeding my family in the same sentence! Stupid analogy using the janitor!!

What's stupid about the analogy? Both are examples of people being jealous of what someone else is able to get paid.

BeefStew25
04-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Sure I complain about having millions of dollars and feeding my family in the same sentence! Stupid analogy using the janitor!!

I think we need to cap your salary. You cool with it?

Thnikkaman
04-21-2009, 04:53 PM
What's stupid about the analogy? Both are examples of people being jealous of what someone else is able to get paid.

The analogy isn't parallel. The analogy would be correct if the Janitor was contributing to my salary for services that I provided the janitor.

Good analogies would include complaining how much your public servants get paid in Washington, how much George Lucas is getting paid to ruin our childhood heroes, and how much investment bankers get paid for loosing other people's money.

Nomad
04-21-2009, 05:01 PM
What's stupid about the analogy? Both are examples of people being jealous of what someone else is able to get paid.


Where did I say I was jealous. I don't believe being paid millions of dollars then someone tells me they need more to be able to support their family...that's BS. Let the players have their piece of the pie (if their worth it after their current contract ends) but spare me the sympathy stories and there's no player worth $100 million dollars and there should be limits.



Beefy Beer ,There's a limit to everything and yes my wage is limited as well.

BeefStew25
04-21-2009, 05:07 PM
The analogy isn't parallel. The analogy would be correct if the Janitor was contributing to my salary for services that I provided the janitor.

Good analogies would include complaining how much your public servants get paid in Washington, how much George Lucas is getting paid to ruin our childhood heroes, and how much investment bankers get paid for loosing other people's money.

The analogy fits. He is using the tired, lame argument of wealth envy. It is dull. If he is going to envy someone's else's wealth, why can't another envy his?

BeefStew25
04-21-2009, 05:07 PM
Where did I say I was jealous. I don't believe being paid millions of dollars then someone tells me they need more to be able to support their family...that's BS. Let the players have their piece of the pie (if their worth it after their current contract ends) but spare me the sympathy stories and there's no player worth $100 million dollars and there should be limits.



Beefy Beer ,There's a limit to everything and yes my wage is limited as well.

You set your own limits bro. But don't set mine.

DallasChief
04-21-2009, 05:13 PM
Where did I say I was jealous. I don't believe being paid millions of dollars then someone tells me they need more to be able to support their family...that's BS. Let the players have their piece of the pie (if their worth it after their current contract ends) but spare me the sympathy stories and there's no player worth $100 million dollars and there should be limits.



Beefy Beer ,There's a limit to everything and yes my wage is limited as well.

How does somebody else asking for more money from their employer effect you? It doesn't. The only reason to be angry about it is because you're jealous.

sanluis
04-21-2009, 05:43 PM
( As for meds comments about his personnel situation I am very sorry to hear this has happened and my prayers and thoughts are with you and your family Med! You are a good man and will land on your feet soon.)


For contracts and promises for services I understand market value. I understand when an employee has out performed his contract and I know it is good business to reward that employee when possible. I also know that under performance will be addressed by the company. As it should be in order to keep everyone competing at the highest levels.


Employees that have done nothing..... like a draft pick..... I don't understand paying top Dollar for what could be a Ryan Leaf. How the owners and players let themselves get into that kind of a situation is really aggravating. It boils down to lawyers once again and bad self serving advise. This is were I put most of my disgust.

Thnikkaman
04-21-2009, 06:49 PM
The analogy fits. He is using the tired, lame argument of wealth envy. It is dull. If he is going to envy someone's else's wealth, why can't another envy his?

I don't have a problem with the argument, just the analogy.

Ravage!!!
04-21-2009, 09:01 PM
Where did I say I was jealous. I don't believe being paid millions of dollars then someone tells me they need more to be able to support their family...that's BS. Let the players have their piece of the pie (if their worth it after their current contract ends) but spare me the sympathy stories and there's no player worth $100 million dollars and there should be limits.



Beefy Beer ,There's a limit to everything and yes my wage is limited as well.

I think you stated you aren't jealous, then proceeded to show that you are.

I know Med's position. No one.. NO ONE... likes to see a friend or family member suffer do to not making enough money.

But envying someone because they make enough to 'sit' out, or refuse to play and even forfeit money.... is STILL envy.. no matter what the circumstances that surround it. No matter HOW much money we are talking about.

Medford Bronco
04-21-2009, 09:46 PM
( As for meds comments about his personnel situation I am very sorry to hear this has happened and my prayers and thoughts are with you and your family Med! You are a good man and will land on your feet soon.)


For contracts and promises for services I understand market value. I understand when an employee has out performed his contract and I know it is good business to reward that employee when possible. I also know that under performance will be addressed by the company. As it should be in order to keep everyone competing at the highest levels.


Employees that have done nothing..... like a draft pick..... I don't understand paying top Dollar for what could be a Ryan Leaf. How the owners and players let themselves get into that kind of a situation is really aggravating. It boils down to lawyers once again and bad self serving advise. This is were I put most of my disgust.


Thanks sanluis you are pure class all the way:beer:

Hey maybe I am just poed because I got a raw deal. I am just not a fan of any athlete that has already gotten like 15 million and then crying his way out of town because his security blanket left him. I dont envy any of them.

I just want what I believe is mine through hard work and no one worked harder at my company than I did.

BeefStew25
04-21-2009, 11:21 PM
Thanks sanluis you are pure class all the way:beer:

Hey maybe I am just poed because I got a raw deal. I am just not a fan of any athlete that has already gotten like 15 million and then crying his way out of town because his security blanket left him. I dont envy any of them.

I just want what I believe is mine through hard work and no one worked harder at my company than I did.

Sounds like you might be ready to work for yourself, my friend.

Medford Bronco
04-22-2009, 08:15 PM
Sounds like you might be ready to work for yourself, my friend.

lol you you have the $$ for a startup BeefyBear:salute:

btw nothing personal. I am just venting. It has been a very hard week for me that is all. I still have a son with austism and a family to support.

Take care. :beer:

topscribe
04-22-2009, 08:32 PM
I think you stated you aren't jealous, then proceeded to show that you are.

I know Med's position. No one.. NO ONE... likes to see a friend or family member suffer do to not making enough money.

But envying someone because they make enough to 'sit' out, or refuse to play and even forfeit money.... is STILL envy.. no matter what the circumstances that surround it. No matter HOW much money we are talking about.

Can't help but to be jealous.

That 100 G's Cutler pissed away by not showing up for those first meetings . . .
what would most of us have done for that?? :tsk:

-----

MNPatsFan
04-23-2009, 08:20 AM
To play devil's advocate, do you get equally upset with the team when they ask a player to restructure or be cut?No because the vast majority of player contracts are front loaded with signing bonus and other bonuses. The contracts have "dummy years with huge salaries the last couple of years of the contract to puff the "total value" of the alleged deal and to enable the team to spread the salary cap hit of the signing bonus out over a longer period of time. At the time of the agreement and signing, the team and player both knew that the player would not paid that money for those seasons (e.g. 7 year $100M contract that is actually a 4 or 5 year 50-60M contract).

MNPatsFan
04-23-2009, 08:22 AM
Can you get your neck broken at work?Yes, depending on your job. For a number of people they can get injured even worse.

MNPatsFan
04-23-2009, 08:37 AM
Still not convinced an NFL player is worth some of the ridiculous money they receive. I know it's all entertainment and mostly supported by fans, merchandising, ticket sales, etc.,but spare me that they really need $46 -$100 million dollars to feed their families and medical and for the agony:lol: and if they don't get the money they'll be in distress! Have this conversation with an iron worker or concrete worker after about 25 yrs, they walk and move around like a 70 yr old man don't have the luxury of millions of dollars to fall back on and if they get hurt and can't work then they'll be lucky to get disability and who knows how short their careers may/can be. Yes pro sports atheletes have gifted abilities and they entertain us on Sundays, but they have careers after the NFL as well.Not to mention pipe fitters and other professions who worked with asbestos, in coal mines, etc. and are now suffering or will suffer in the future from black lung, asbestosis, mesothelioma, etc.

Nomad
04-23-2009, 08:51 AM
I think you stated you aren't jealous, then proceeded to show that you are.

I know Med's position. No one.. NO ONE... likes to see a friend or family member suffer do to not making enough money.

But envying someone because they make enough to 'sit' out, or refuse to play and even forfeit money.... is STILL envy.. no matter what the circumstances that surround it. No matter HOW much money we are talking about.

I'm not jealous of what these guys can do and what they make for doing it because I understand the teams make billions. I know these guys have a God given athletic ability and they are entertainers (which entertainers make alot of money). What bothers me is not necessarily the money (which I still don't believe these guys are not worth $100 million), it's the fact they use the old cliche of 'I won't able to make it if I don't make this $$$$$$ or 'I need to feed my family and if I don't get this contract I'll be in tough times'.....this is a joke. Seeing pro athletes spending habits and then this jibberish doesn't count up especially when one makes millions and says they need to feed their families. If in your mind that makes me jealous....:ohwell: I won't lose sleep and I'm sure the NFL players could care less what I think. You can ask, why watch then? I watch because I enjoyed playing the game for the short 6 -7 yrs from gr school to HS and I believe it's a great game....that's why I help coach as well. Again my only problem is if these players would just say I want more money instead of the sympathy stories then I know the nature of the business and the greed involved because I myself don't know anyone who couldn't live off of $5-10 million comfortablly and were able to take care of there families.

Nomad
04-23-2009, 08:58 AM
Not to mention pipe fitters and other professions who worked with asbestosis, in coal mines, etc. and are now suffering or will suffer in the future from black lung, asbestosis, mesothelioma, etc.

True! I'm an electrician (I enjoy the career) and most do choose our own professions. I make a comfortable wage for the schooling and OJT I went through but it's hit and miss as far as work around here. Football is a great sport and I'm glad those guys are able to do what they do and make, but don't try and come down to the average Americans level with sympathy stories when making millions!!!

Yes some jobs out there deserve making more than they do!

One other thing to add: If you want to give a career more money, though it's voluntary as well.....because you never know if they'll be in therapy for the rest of their life or be disabled, their career could end tomorrow and it's very hostile enviroment, maybe they could get a few million dollars in bonuses for their sacrifice though it's not very entertaining....our men and women of the armed forces while on deployments in war zones!! :D I'm done!!!

BigDaddyBronco
04-23-2009, 09:39 AM
Yes, depending on your job. For a number of people they can get injured even worse.
Meh, I work in a refinery. Things can blow up at any minute killing hundreds.

But it is the exception not the rule. I don't have a high risk of debilitating injury every day I go to work.

Mix that in with the unique talent they have that 99.99% of the rest of us don't and the market pays them what it does.

KCL
04-23-2009, 09:43 AM
How does somebody else asking for more money from their employer effect you? It doesn't. The only reason to be angry about it is because you're jealous.

I'm not jealous of people that make more than me even if they are ********.
Larry Johnson is a perfect example.

KCL
04-23-2009, 09:45 AM
Yes, depending on your job. For a number of people they can get injured even worse.

Yea like our military men and women.

BeefStew25
04-23-2009, 09:47 AM
Yea like our military men and women.

He mentioned that already. Please read his entire post. TIA.

KCL
04-23-2009, 09:48 AM
He mentioned that already. Please read his entire post. TIA.

I posted this before I read his post..please mind your own business...TIA!

BeefStew25
04-23-2009, 09:51 AM
I posted this before I read his post..please mind your own business...TIA!

Ok, I will maturely step away. I forgot this is a public forum.

MNPatsFan
04-23-2009, 10:17 AM
Meh, I work in a refinery. Things can blow up at any minute killing hundreds.

But it is the exception not the rule. I don't have a high risk of debilitating injury every day I go to work.

Mix that in with the unique talent they have that 99.99% of the rest of us don't and the market pays them what it does.Yes, it is the exception not the rule just as in football. Let's compare how many firefighters and police officers are seriously injured or killed each year versus how many football players are seriously injured/paralyzed or killed. That is just one example I can give where a profession has significantly higher risk of serious injury or death versus pro football players and are paid significantly less.

MNPatsFan
04-23-2009, 10:18 AM
Yea like our military men and women.You read my mind because they were one of the "professions" I was thinking of. I hesitated to name them however because I was afraid it may take the thread of topic.

BigDaddyBronco
04-23-2009, 10:20 AM
Yes, it is the exception not the rule just as in football. Let's compare how many firefighters and police officers are seriously injured or killed each year versus how many football players are seriously injured/paralyzed or killed. That is just one example I can give where a profession has significantly higher risk of serious injury or death versus pro football players and are paid significantly less.
Can firefighters or policemen run a 4.4 40?

My argument is that they get paid a lot because they are a limited commodity in a high paying industry. Simple economics. Their willingness to face injury as well as their freakish athletic ability makes them limited commodities.

Arguments against what they get paid are silly. The better argument is against the value Americans put in entertainment in terms of dollars and time.

MNPatsFan
04-23-2009, 10:29 AM
Can firefighters or policemen run a 4.4 40?

My argument is that they get paid a lot because they are a limited commodity in a high paying industry. Simple economics. Their willingness to face injury as well as their freakish athletic ability makes them limited commodities.

Arguments against what they get paid are silly. The better argument is against the value Americans put in entertainment in terms of dollars and time.No probably not, but there are probably physical tests/qualifications police and/or firefighter have to possess related to their line of work that football players may not be able to perform equally.

It appears that you have changed your argument.:confused: Based on your post stating, "Can you get your neck broken at work?", your argument initially appeared to be that they deserve to be paid more because of the risk of serious injury.;)

BigDaddyBronco
04-23-2009, 10:41 AM
No probably not, but there are probably physical tests/qualifications police and/or firefighter have to possess related to their line of work that football players may not be able to perform equally.

It appears that you have changed your argument.:confused: Based on your post stating, "Can you get your neck broken at work?", your argument initially appeared to be that they deserve to be paid more because of the risk of serious injury.;)

If you go back to the beginning of the thread my initial argument was that NFL players were a limited commodity that is why they get paid so much.

The other posts are just one liners. Such as can a policeman run a 4.4 40.

Just trying to be funny.

:humorfail: