PDA

View Full Version : What else can we do to improve our defense



Medford Bronco
03-24-2012, 07:46 PM
I like the signing of Tracy Porter.

What else can we do to impove the rest of the defense.

Any diamond in the rough lineman you like? Come on dogfish amongst other respected
posters here that know the game.

SpringsBroncoFan
03-24-2012, 08:12 PM
Well if we don't trade for the RB Stewart we can go for Sammie Lee Hill DT since we were going to burn a 4th anyway...

Looks like we are about done in FA now so since he's restricted we just put together our best offer and wait a few days to see if Detroit matches...

dogfish
03-24-2012, 09:01 PM
i think it's mostly down to the draft now, buddy. . .

i'm sure we'll sign or acquire at least one veteran nosetackle. . . there's not that much left, but somebody like antonio garay or aubrayo franklin would be better than trying to start a rookie there. . . i'm guessing we might be trolling around, looking for another deal like bunkley, but that market may not develop until after the draft. . . we'll see. . .

i think we'll sign at least one end. . . matt roth is one rumored target, and he would be a legit signing. . . we'll probably bring hunter back as a run-stopping reserve. . . derek landri is a possibility as an interior wave rusher, but they don't seem interested. . .

i think we'll probably still sign another safety, after the dregs have settled out and we can see who's available for dirt cheap. . . i think OJ atogwe might still be available, and someone like jim leonhard or the recently-released yeremiah bell would be better than watching rahim moore bumble around. . . bruton's a pure special teamer, and i doubt they want any re-runs of late last year, when the back end completely fell apart with the two kids. . . and i wouldn't be shocked if they come back with one more cheap vet corner as insurance in case porter gets suspended. . .

there are some good linebackers left, but i think we're gonna wait for the draft. . .

i think we draft an O-lineman and a running back with our top couple picks, and then probably a corner and a D-tackle. . . or maybe one of the defensive positions in the second, and RB in the third-- something like that. . . the bulk of the work is probably done for now. . . i'm not thrilled with unknown DTs and joe mays up the middle, but i guess we weren't going to turn into the '98 team over one off-season. . . realistically, peyton manning WAS the big addition to our defense. . . it's going to be about dumervil and von miller coming off the edges, just like freeney and mathis in indy. . . except we have far better starting corners than they ever did, and a better defensive coaching staff. . . i expect our D to be competitive. . .

Canmore
03-24-2012, 09:05 PM
i think it's mostly down to the draft now, buddy. . .

i'm sure we'll sign or acquire at least one veteran nosetackle. . . there's not that much left, but somebody like antonio garay or aubrayo franklin would be better than trying to start a rookie there. . . i'm guessing we might be trolling around, looking for another deal like bunkley, but that market may not develop until after the draft. . . we'll see. . .

i think we'll sign at least one end. . . matt roth is one rumored target, and he would be a legit signing. . . we'll probably bring hunter back as a run-stopping reserve. . . derek landri is a possibility as an interior wave rusher, but they don't seem interested. . .

i think we'll probably still sign another safety, after the dregs have settled out and we can see who's available for dirt cheap. . . i think OJ atogwe might still be available, and someone like jim leonhard or the recently-released yeremiah bell would be better than watching rahim moore bumble around. . . bruton's a pure special teamer, and i doubt they want any re-runs of late last year, when the back end completely fell apart with the two kids. . . and i wouldn't be shocked if they come back with one more cheap vet corner as insurance in case porter gets suspended. . .

there are some good linebackers left, but i think we're gonna wait for the draft. . .

i think we draft an O-lineman and a running back with our top couple picks, and then probably a corner and a D-tackle. . . or maybe one of the defensive positions in the second, and RB in the third-- something like that. . . the bulk of the work is probably done for now. . . i'm not thrilled with unknown DTs and joe mays up the middle, but i guess we weren't going to turn into the '98 team over one off-season. . . realistically, peyton manning WAS the big addition to our defense. . . it's going to be about dumervil and von miller coming off the edges, just like freeney and mathis in indy. . . except we have far better starting corners than they ever did, and a better defensive coaching staff. . . i expect our D to be competitive. . .

No we are not going to turn into 98 in one off-season. Like to see a decent defensive tackle. Too bad Bunkley wanted the sky. I hope we are not planning on starting Mays.

topscribe
03-24-2012, 09:19 PM
Despite the Bunkley deal, we may be okay at DT. Warren is coming back, and I'm hoping they yank M. Thomas back into the fold. McBean did okay. Maybe grab Garay or Franklin, or maybe even Henderson for rotation. Shift Irving over to Will. Trade up if we have to and get Keuchly for MLB. Mays would make a good enough backup.

Regarding the comment on the O-line: Shift Franklin to LG and start Harris at RT. That would actually increase depth with Beadles now in the wings. I can see maybe a 4th or 5th for O-line, but nothing necessarily before.

FWIW

Ziggy
03-24-2012, 09:20 PM
The signing of Mike Adams will help this D quite a bit. While he's not spectacular, he a solid, reliable last line of defense, which we were lacking last season. If Dawkins doesn't come back, Carter should be fine at the SS spot which is what he was drafted for in the first place.

Hunter will be re-signed in the next 2 days. He's a quality backup at DE. Guys like Garay and Franklin are going to be signing on the cheap soon. We should get a guy like that before too long. Sammie Lee Hill would be well worth a 4th rounder. The Lions don't have a lot of cap room and may not match. There is some good young talent in this draft at DT, but you can't expect a rookie Dlineman to come in and make an impact his first season.

I'm still trying to figure out why Mays was not only re-signed, but given 4 mill guaranteed. It's basically a one year deal if he doesn't pan out since the 2nd and 3rd seasons have no guaranteed money. Let's hope that Nate Irving is what they thought he was when they drafted him.

At CB the Porter signing was big. He's a legit #2 corner. Goodman is scheduled to make 4 million this season, so I'm guessing his deal gets reworked or he gets released. Harris looked to be a solid #3 corner last season. Sid Quan and Cassius Vaughn provide solid depth for the 4 and 5 spots. They also give us depth in the return game now that Eddie is gone.

Bottom line is the same as it has been for the last 20 years. The Broncos need Dtackles to make this defense elite. The more things change........

Nomad
03-24-2012, 09:23 PM
Same old song and dance with the defense, Med. I don't believe Manning will be the same and he'll have to rely on the defense a little more.

Canmore
03-24-2012, 09:25 PM
Despite the Bunkley deal, we may be okay at DT. Warren is coming back, and I'm hoping they yank M. Thomas back into the fold. McBean did okay. Maybe grab Garay or Franklin, or maybe even Henderson for rotation. Shift Irving over to Will. Trade up if we have to and get Keuchly for MLB. Mays would make a good enough backup.

Regarding the comment on the O-line: Shift Franklin to LG and start Harris at RT. That would actually increase depth with Beadles now in the wings. I can see maybe a 4th or 5th for O-line, but nothing necessarily before.

FWIW

Harris, healthy would be great, but what are the chances of him being healthy for a season? Love the idea of Franklin at guard. I feel he would be a natural. Don't have a clue what the thinking is regarding Nate Irving. Leave him in the middle, shift him to will? I guess time will tell us, or maybe the draft.

topscribe
03-24-2012, 09:29 PM
Harris, healthy would be great, but what are the chances of him being healthy for a season? Love the idea of Franklin at guard. I feel he would be a natural. Don't have a clue what the thinking is regarding Nate Irving. Leave him in the middle, shift him to will? I guess time will tell us, or maybe the draft.
Actually, I don't think they have a crystal clear idea of any of last year's rookies since there effectively was no preseason. They'll know much more this year, of course.

But, you know, if Ryan Harris is hurt again, the Broncos will have two players in Franklin and Beadles who have experience at RT. So that shouldn't be much of a gamble, IMO . . .

Canmore
03-24-2012, 09:32 PM
Actually, I don't think they have a crystal clear idea of any of last year's rookies since there effectively was no preseason. They'll know much more this year, of course.

But, you know, if Ryan Harris is hurt again, the Broncos will have two players in Franklin and Beadles who have experience at RT. So that shouldn't be much of a gamble, IMO . . .

That is a valid point Top. Harris is easily the most natural right tackle. Beadles scares me. I don't know if that is fair, but he does.

SpringsBroncoFan
03-24-2012, 10:07 PM
That is a valid point Top. Harris is easily the most natural right tackle. Beadles scares me. I don't know if that is fair, but he does.

I've seen where Harris is listed 3rd & Hills 2nd on depth... Both can be bull rushed but granted are better at pushing rushers past the pocket unlike Franklin. Hopefully, OTA's and a full camp helps Franklin.

Canmore
03-24-2012, 10:08 PM
I've seen where Harris is listed 3rd & Hills 2nd on depth... Both can be bull rushed but granted are better at pushing rushers past the pocket unlike Franklin. Hopefully, OTA's and a full camp helps Franklin.

I know it is just forums speculation, but if he remains at tackle.

SpringsBroncoFan
03-24-2012, 10:17 PM
The signing of Mike Adams will help this D quite a bit. While he's not spectacular, he a solid, reliable last line of defense, which we were lacking last season. If Dawkins doesn't come back, Carter should be fine at the SS spot which is what he was drafted for in the first place.

Hunter will be re-signed in the next 2 days. He's a quality backup at DE. Guys like Garay and Franklin are going to be signing on the cheap soon. We should get a guy like that before too long. Sammie Lee Hill would be well worth a 4th rounder. The Lions don't have a lot of cap room and may not match. There is some good young talent in this draft at DT, but you can't expect a rookie Dlineman to come in and make an impact his first season.

I'm still trying to figure out why Mays was not only re-signed, but given 4 mill guaranteed. It's basically a one year deal if he doesn't pan out since the 2nd and 3rd seasons have no guaranteed money. Let's hope that Nate Irving is what they thought he was when they drafted him.

At CB the Porter signing was big. He's a legit #2 corner. Goodman is scheduled to make 4 million this season, so I'm guessing his deal gets reworked or he gets released. Harris looked to be a solid #3 corner last season. Sid Quan and Cassius Vaughn provide solid depth for the 4 and 5 spots. They also give us depth in the return game now that Eddie is gone.

Bottom line is the same as it has been for the last 20 years. The Broncos need Dtackles to make this defense elite. The more things change........

Agree re S... as Dog mentioned wouldn't be surprised if we troll for SS's in FA... I also wouldn't mind one late in the draft like Duke...

I wouldn't mind Garay & agree re rookies so would really prefer we just lose the 4th and offer Hill a contract Detroit can't match. Then we have a run stuffing vet with young legs & an actually ability to penetrate a bit. Bring back our vets and then (hopefully) add Reyes or even Wolfe or Randall later 3rd or 4th.

MOtorboat
03-24-2012, 10:35 PM
Have a solid draft and find ways to get Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil to the quarterback. They are the new Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis. Get the lead and pin your ears back.

topscribe
03-24-2012, 11:00 PM
I've seen where Harris is listed 3rd & Hills 2nd on depth... Both can be bull rushed but granted are better at pushing rushers past the pocket unlike Franklin. Hopefully, OTA's and a full camp helps Franklin.

Well, of course, we had a full season of Harris at RT in 2008, and his performance was highly regarded.

He is not the drive blocker Fanklin is, but he is superior as a pass protector . . .

SpringsBroncoFan
03-24-2012, 11:04 PM
Well, of course, we had a full season of Harris at RT in 2008, and his performance was highly regarded.

He is not the drive blocker Fanklin is, but he is superior as a pass protector . . .

In redirecting an attacker past the pocket but not in preventing a bull rush... pick your poison...

topscribe
03-24-2012, 11:11 PM
In redirecting an attacker past the pocket but not in preventing a bull rush... pick your poison...
True, but a bull rush is easier for the QB to spot since it's coming right at him. And Peyton's quick release can neutralize much of that.

I just believe that, since the Broncos have Harris back, moving Franklin to LG will upgrade two positions on the OL, IMHO.

Canmore
03-24-2012, 11:16 PM
True, but a bull rush is easier for the QB to spot since it's coming right at him. And Peyton's quick release can neutralize much of that.

I just believe that, since the Broncos have Harris back, moving Franklin to LG will upgrade two positions on the OL, IMHO.

It's been a while, but I don't remember Harris giving up many sacks no matter how he was attacked. If I remember right, we only gave up like 13 sacks in 2008. Harris didn't give up more than a handful.

topscribe
03-24-2012, 11:25 PM
It's been a while, but I don't remember Harris giving up many sacks no matter how he was attacked. If I remember right, we only gave up like 13 sacks in 2008. Harris didn't give up more than a handful.
I don't remember now, but he was considered one of the top RTs in the league that year, IIRC . . .

Canmore
03-24-2012, 11:28 PM
I don't remember now, but he was considered one of the top RTs in the league that year, IIRC . . .

I looked it up. We gave up 12 sacks in 2008 and Harris 2.5. He played half of 2009 and gave up one sack. Speed rush, bull rush, Ryan Harris is solid, when he plays.

dogfish
03-24-2012, 11:31 PM
Have a solid draft and find ways to get Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil to the quarterback. They are the new Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis. Get the lead and pin your ears back.

ideally, we still need somebody who can generate more pressure inside. . . mcbean was our best at it last year, which isn't saying much-- and he maybe suspended. . . i don't think we can count on warren for much at this point. . . ayers helps when he slides inside in nickel and dime situations, but we need more. . .

derek landri would be a solid pick up. . . somebody like fletcher cox would be ideal, but i doubt he's there. . .

in regards to harris, he has certainly proven to be a far superior pass blocker to franklin if he's healthy. . . i have no idea if he is right now, or how much a part of the coaching staff's plans he is going forward. . . for as much as we all talk about it, there's been zero indication to this point that they actually intend to move franklin to guard. . . not saying it can't, won't, or shouldn't happen, but we'll see. . . either way i think there's a good chance we draft an OL at #25-- a mauler like cordy glenn, or OT could certainly be in play if mike adams or jonathon martin is still on the board. . .

if they really want some veteran competition for walton, there are still some older guys like jeff faine, jamaal jackson and andre gurode out there. . . and it doesn't look like we're going to make a move in FA at tackle, but that could still change if the market for somebody deteriorates far enough to poach them on the super cheap-- somebody like marcus mcneil, demetrius bell, max starks, anthony collins or kareem mckenzie. . .

SpringsBroncoFan
03-24-2012, 11:41 PM
True, but a bull rush is easier for the QB to spot since it's coming right at him. And Peyton's quick release can neutralize much of that.

I just believe that, since the Broncos have Harris back, moving Franklin to LG will upgrade two positions on the OL, IMHO.

Playing devil's advocate, they only signed Harris as insurance for Kuper after his injury and we wound up going with Hochstien.

So it was NEVER planned for him to play RT at all. We don't know what condition his back is in, can he move well enough to protect the edge anymore?

And I'll remind you of the following article referencing that he just wasn't in our plans anymore...

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17770399

topscribe
03-25-2012, 01:18 AM
Playing devil's advocate, they only signed Harris as insurance for Kuper after his injury and we wound up going with Hochstien.

So it was NEVER planned for him to play RT at all. We don't know what condition his back is in, can he move well enough to protect the edge anymore?

And I'll remind you of the following article referencing that he just wasn't in our plans anymore...

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17770399
I'm more concerned with what is going on in Dove Valley than I am the DP. Nonetheless, I believe it would behoove them to find out at what level Harris can play. It was good enough at one time that it would not make sense not to. Anyway, I suggested that only as a possibility within the general scenario . . .

dogfish
03-25-2012, 02:50 AM
I'm more concerned with what is going on in Dove Valley than I am the DP. Nonetheless, I believe it would behoove them to find out at what level Harris can play. It was good enough at one time that it would not make sense not to. Anyway, I suggested that only as a possibility within the general scenario . . .

top, i agree with you that it makes sense to see where he's at-- the guy can play at a high level when he's right, and we're never shy about bargains. . . may as well at least have a look. . .

it is worth mentioning that he's not a prototypical fox tackle, though. . . i'm not sure whether that prototype will change with manning here-- you can make a logical argument both ways. . . i suspect that we''ll stick with franklin unless martin or adams happens to be there at #25. . . or they could draft cordy glenn, who bears some similarities to orlando, and let them battle it out with the loser replacing beadles. . .

i suspect we're still going to run the ball, and that john and peyton had a long talk about winning titles as an older QB, and how nice it was to not have to play hero all the time. . . manning had a two-time rushing champ to lean on in his developmental years, and he's not stupid-- i'm sure he'd rather have a strong running game and defense, and only have to go john wayne when the situation demands it. . . rather than re-configure our line to a pass pro unit, i bet we'll protect him by limiting his throws early-- like 25 per game instead of 35, maybe 30 instead of 40 if we're down. . .

the year he won his title, they had a decent one-two punch and probably their best run defense. . . if we don't get jonathon stewart, you can assume we'll add a quality RB prospect in the draft. . . i expect us to be balanced this year, and give manning the time he needs to develop timing with all the young targets we're putting around him. . . they could conceivably try to buy a year with harris at RT, knowing that franklin and beadles have both played there, but i really think we'll be adding at least one more jumbo-size bulldozer type with a high draft pick. . .

Canmore
03-25-2012, 02:57 AM
top, i agree with you that it makes sense to see where he's at-- the guy can play at a high level when he's right, and we're never shy about bargains. . . may as well at least have a look. . .

it is worth mentioning that he's not a prototypical fox tackle, though. . . i'm not sure whether that prototype will change with manning here-- you can make a logical argument both ways. . . i suspect that we''ll stick with franklin unless martin or adams happens to be there at #25. . . or they could draft cordy glenn, who bears some similarities to orlando, and let them battle it out with the loser replacing beadles. . .

i suspect we're still going to run the ball, and that john and peyton had a long talk about winning titles as an older QB, and how nice it was to not have to play hero all the time. . . manning had a two-time rushing champ to lean on in his developmental years, and he's not stupid-- i'm sure he'd rather have a strong running game and defense, and only have to go john wayne when the situation demands it. . . rather than re-configure our line to a pass pro unit, i bet we'll protect him by limiting his throws early-- like 25 per game instead of 35, maybe 30 instead of 40 if we're down. . .

the year he won his title, they had a decent one-two punch and probably their best run defense. . . if we don't get jonathon stewart, you can assume we'll add a quality RB prospect in the draft. . . i expect us to be balanced this year, and give manning the time he needs to develop timing with all the young targets we're putting around him. . . they could conceivably try to buy a year with harris at RT, knowing that franklin and beadles have both played there, but i really think we'll be adding at least one more jumbo-size bulldozer type with a high draft pick. . .

Nice analysis. I really am curious what we do in the next couple of weeks and especially in the draft. Time will tell.

BigDaddyBronco
03-25-2012, 07:20 AM
I'm still concerned about DT. Thomas is a FA, so we are down to the suspended unless he wins a court case McBean, a often injured Warren, and a coming off injury Vickerson. Of course they have some scrubs like Jarmon, Unrein, and some dude named Sealver Siliga (which sounds like a bacteria or something). Needless to say there are some holes. At DE We have Ayers and Doom, and the only other DE we have on the roster is J. Beal. Looks like they need another DE or two.

LB can look like last year with Woodyard holding down the fort until Williams returns. Mays was an interesting re-sign for the money they gave him. Maybe they are happy with his play or like him as a ST leader or something. I would like to see Irving or a draft pick step up and take the MLB spot. Of course V. Miller holds down the SLB spot.

In the secondary we have Porter, Champ, Goodman, Harris, Vaughn, Carter, and Squid. Actually don't look terrible there. If some of those guys bounce back from injury they could be solid. At S we have Adams, Bruton, Q. Carter, and R. Moore. I'm not sure if they keep these four, or bring in one more through FA or the draft. Adams and Carter don't look too bad.

So looking at the current roster. Looks like DT, DE, LB, and possibly a S or CB are needs purely to fill out a roster. I'm thinking they get secondary late in the draft to push the guys on the roster and LB's and DLine in the middle of the draft to fill out the roster. The first 3 rounds will be offense. Other than the DLine and Dawkins leadership, the LBers and secondary look the same or better than last year, so the defense shouldn't be too far of where it was last year.

Canmore
03-25-2012, 07:27 AM
I'm still concerned about DT. Thomas is a FA, so we are down to the suspended unless he wins a court case McBean, a often injured Warren, and a coming off injury Vickerson. Of course they have some scrubs like Jarmon, Unrein, and some dude named Sealver Siliga (which sounds like a bacteria or something). Needless to say there are some holes. At DE We have Ayers and Doom, and the only other DE we have on the roster is J. Beal. Looks like they need another DE or two.

LB can look like last year with Woodyard holding down the fort until Williams returns. Mays was an interesting re-sign for the money they gave him. Maybe they are happy with his play or like him as a ST leader or something. I would like to see Irving or a draft pick step up and take the MLB spot. Of course V. Miller holds down the SLB spot.

In the secondary we have Porter, Champ, Goodman, Harris, Vaughn, Carter, and Squid. Actually don't look terrible there. If some of those guys bounce back from injury they could be solid. At S we have Adams, Bruton, Q. Carter, and R. Moore. I'm not sure if they keep these four, or bring in one more through FA or the draft. Adams and Carter don't look too bad.

So looking at the current roster. Looks like DT, DE, LB, and possibly a S or CB are needs purely to fill out a roster. I'm thinking they get secondary late in the draft to push the guys on the roster and LB's and DLine in the middle of the draft to fill out the roster. The first 3 rounds will be offense. Other than the DLine and Dawkins leadership, the LBers and secondary look the same or better than last year, so the defense shouldn't be too far of where it was last year.

I believe that last year I was complaining about the big gaping hole in the center of our defense, namely defensive tackle and middle linebacker. Well nothing has changed. We need a couple of tackles and I sure hope they don't plan on starting Mays.

Elevation inc
03-25-2012, 08:47 AM
I believe we need 2 Dt's in the first 4 rds of the draft this year, and maybe another Secondary player. I really liked the mike adams, Tracy porter and the 2 TE signings....

hotcarl
03-25-2012, 12:30 PM
we should fire elway

jhildebrand
03-25-2012, 12:39 PM
:hi: Hotcarl. I thought you would be a mod by now. :mad2:

TIA

Medford Bronco
03-25-2012, 01:15 PM
How healthy is ty warren? Can he help
Us situationally?

Canmore
03-25-2012, 01:20 PM
How healthy is ty warren? Can he help
Us situationally?

I'm really hoping so, but to answer your question supposedly he was 100% back in January. How he holds up is anybodies guess.

pipes
03-25-2012, 01:39 PM
I believe we need 2 Dt's in the first 4 rds of the draft this year, and maybe another Secondary player. I really liked the mike adams, Tracy porter and the 2 TE signings....

I really liked the QB signing too (Manning that is).

I agree with you about the DT's though. The futility at that position is getting laughable among Bronco fans. Shanahan's regime ignored the position for years...hell, his best DT was a DE that he moved over there (Pryce) and got lucky with a couple of scrubs that ended up being pretty good - Keith Traylor comes to mind.

The McDaniels era switched to 3-4 then proceeded to not sign a true NT to play in it??

Now, although I love what EFX has done as a whole, however they have come out and said that they need to address the DT position. They even vocalized the fact that they would need to address it in last year's draft...then drafted no one.

So, the ball is in their court. They have a franchise QB now, they have his backup...so maybe a young project later round QB will be in the cards, who knows.

RB could use an upgrade. Draft or J Stewart??

WR is thin, TE is good with a possible exception of a notable blocker.

OL needs depth.

CB can be set but has question marks with Goodman (old and sucked), Cassius Vaughn, and Syd (injury)

S looks pretty decent with the signing of Adams, especially if Dawk comes back. You can say what you want about Brian's loss of talent but the defense last year was noticeably better with him on the field.

K & P are set.

LB and DE could use some depth. IMO somebody like Matt Roth could fill both voids, which would save a roster spot.

My other question would be who the returner(s) is(are) going to be.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-25-2012, 01:49 PM
We must get stronger up the middle. That's the bottom line. I have no idea what the status of Vickerson and Warren are, but even when healthy I doubt they'll be very good. As far as Mays goes, I don't think he's the answer either.

We have to spend, trade and draft to win now. We really have no other choice. If I'm calling the shots, I'm looking at tendering an offer to Sammy Lee Hill, signing Derek Landri, and targeting one of the available FA MLBs. London Fletcher is old as dirt, but the guy can play MLB far better than Mays and is an every down LB. David Hawthorne and Gary Brackett would be other guys I would look at. I have no idea what EFX thinks of Irving but if they aren't positive he's the guy, they absolutely must get someone else. The 4-3 defense runs through the DTs and MLB for its "power triangle".

Throw caution to the wind and attack FA and the draft as if there is no 2013 season. That's pretty much what I'd do. Everything we've done to this point shows me that we are banking on Manning leading this team to the Superbowl this year. We can't stop short and hope the offense can carry a sub-par defense to a Championship. We must have the pieces - including the depth to cover injuries - to do this.

Canmore
03-25-2012, 01:53 PM
We must get stronger up the middle. That's the bottom line. I have no idea what the status of Vickerson and Warren are, but even when healthy I doubt they'll be very good. As far as Mays goes, I don't think he's the answer either.

We have to spend, trade and draft to win now. We really have no other choice. If I'm calling the shots, I'm looking at tendering an offer to Sammy Lee Hill, signing Derek Landri, and targeting one of the available FA MLBs. London Fletcher is old as dirt, but the guy can play MLB far better than Mays and is an every down LB. David Hawthorne and Gary Brackett would be other guys I would look at. I have no idea what EFX things of Irving but if they aren't positive he's the guy, they absolutely must get someone else. The 4-3 defense runs through the DTs and MLB for its the "power triangle".

Throw caution to the wind and attack FA and the draft as if there is no 2013 season. That's pretty much what I'd do. Everything we've done to this point shows me that we are banking on Manning leading this team to the Superbowl this year. We can't stop short and hope the offense can carry a sub-par defense to a Championship. We must have the pieces - including the depth to cover injuries - to do this.

Couldn't agree more. I've said this last year and this year. The big gaping hole in the middle of our defense. It's time to address this.

Nomad
03-25-2012, 02:13 PM
Couldn't agree more. I've said this last year and this year. The big gaping hole in the middle of our defense. It's time to address this.

:lol: You're talking about the BRONCOS. And now with the mentalityof Manning and the offense (which I don't believe will happen as easily for Manning) will outscore the other teams.....we're back to square one as far as fixing the trenches on defense.

Canmore
03-25-2012, 02:14 PM
:lol: You're talking about the BRONCOS. And now with the mentalityof Manning and the offense (which I don't believe will happen as easily for Manning) will outscore the other teams.....we're back to square one as far as fixing the trenches on defense.

I can hope can't I.

Nomad
03-25-2012, 02:16 PM
I can hope can't I.

Sorry to be a negative nancy, but I've lost hope.

SpringsBroncoFan
03-25-2012, 03:27 PM
We must get stronger up the middle. That's the bottom line. I have no idea what the status of Vickerson and Warren are, but even when healthy I doubt they'll be very good. As far as Mays goes, I don't think he's the answer either.

We have to spend, trade and draft to win now. We really have no other choice. If I'm calling the shots, I'm looking at tendering an offer to Sammy Lee Hill, signing Derek Landri, and targeting one of the available FA MLBs. London Fletcher is old as dirt, but the guy can play MLB far better than Mays and is an every down LB. David Hawthorne and Gary Brackett would be other guys I would look at. I have no idea what EFX thinks of Irving but if they aren't positive he's the guy, they absolutely must get someone else. The 4-3 defense runs through the DTs and MLB for its "power triangle".

Throw caution to the wind and attack FA and the draft as if there is no 2013 season. That's pretty much what I'd do. Everything we've done to this point shows me that we are banking on Manning leading this team to the Superbowl this year. We can't stop short and hope the offense can carry a sub-par defense to a Championship. We must have the pieces - including the depth to cover injuries - to do this.

I think we all agree with that last paragraph... :D Bracket would be fine... hard to see Fletcher pulling up stakes to move this late in his career. If not Dawk then certainly Y Bell would be good at SS, two vets & two rooks...

At this point I'd really like us to snag Hill I hate the idea of any those old NT's out there.

SpringsBroncoFan
03-25-2012, 03:38 PM
I'm more concerned with what is going on in Dove Valley than I am the DP. Nonetheless, I believe it would behoove them to find out at what level Harris can play. It was good enough at one time that it would not make sense not to. Anyway, I suggested that only as a possibility within the general scenario . . .

He'll be in camp so we'll see... the option is certainly there...

I think the irony would be if they moved Beadles to RT.

McD picked Beadles over Harris then Fox picked a TBD rookie over Beadles... lol

I'd be curious as to how would Franklin handle the line calls as Kuper did all that. As you say there are different scenarios to play out this summer... it will be interesting...

hotcarl
03-25-2012, 03:46 PM
we should bring in donald mcrythym from ohio colege ifaa his fuking leg is ok.... that guy can fat playu

Medford Bronco
03-25-2012, 06:34 PM
Thank you all for your very informative posts on this. I hope we can improve and be a good defense, like the last 6-8 games of last year, save for the NE playoff game and
the game vs Det.

Reece247
03-25-2012, 06:51 PM
A few run stopping D line could help.

LTC Pain
03-25-2012, 06:52 PM
After signing Adams and Porter my concern is "up the middle" like someone said. We need a couple of quality DTs from the next draft. Sorry but I'm not satisfied with Warren, Vickerson, Thomas, Unrein, etc. And I hope Irving is our monster in the middle. Guess we will see at the upcoming draft.

pipes
03-25-2012, 07:54 PM
After signing Adams and Porter my concern is "up the middle" like someone said. We need a couple of quality DTs from the next draft. Sorry but I'm not satisfied with Warren, Vickerson, Thomas, Unrein, etc. And I hope Irving is our monster in the middle. Guess we will see at the upcoming draft.

Agreed...but at this point Thomas still hasn't even signed.
(and at this point he would be an upgrade over a couple of the dudes they do have)

Drafting a couple of DT's - early in this year's draft would be neat.
Let's see if it happens...and hope it happens.

DenBronx
03-25-2012, 08:06 PM
Not getting Bunkley sucked. It seemed like a decade since we have had a solid DT and we just let him walk. If we would have resigned Bunk then I would have been very satisfied about our defense. Now, I'm pretty worried.

Hopefully someone falls to us in round 1 or 2.

wayninja
03-25-2012, 08:26 PM
Bunkley was fine, but I woulda been pissed if we had paid him what the saints are paying him. Sorta like Mays... ugh.

hotcarl
03-25-2012, 10:03 PM
at this point maybe we should just kill ourselves????????????

Cugel
03-26-2012, 03:40 PM
Not getting Bunkley sucked. It seemed like a decade since we have had a solid DT and we just let him walk. If we would have resigned Bunk then I would have been very satisfied about our defense. Now, I'm pretty worried.

Hopefully someone falls to us in round 1 or 2.

A rookie DT is not going to have a major impact in 2012. Marcel Dareus, who was the player I wanted them to draft was taken #3 overall by Buffalo and he wound up with 43 tackles and 5.5 sacks.

Which is pretty good for a rookie and he'll probably be an all-pro for years. But, it's not a pro-bowl performance. He was solid in the middle. Nothing better.

And you're not going to find a player like Dareus outside the top 5 picks. Most likely they'll be selecting between players who will be largely invisible their rookie year. :coffee:

I still want them to draft a DT #1, so we don't endlessly go though this nonsense every single year. But, since Manning isn't going to last more than a few years they needed to sign an elite DT right now.

And they didn't do it. They didn't even try.

LTC Pain
03-26-2012, 03:43 PM
at this point maybe we should just kill ourselves????????????

You go first and show us the way :)

FlyByU
03-26-2012, 03:56 PM
1319

Get one of these on our team and we should win every game. This would be a great addition for our Defense.

LTC Pain
03-26-2012, 04:06 PM
1319

Get one of these on our team and we should win every game. This would be a great addition for our Defense.

Two in the middle of the front four would be perfect.

Cugel
03-27-2012, 05:47 PM
Two in the middle of the front four would be perfect.

I suppose they could use both their #1 and #2 picks on DTs, but I would be beyond amazed if they did that. I'd be happy if they used either one of them on a DT. That would be the highest pick Denver ever spent on a DT since Shanahan drafted Paul Toviesi in the 2nd round.

He had a degenerative bone-on-bone condition in his knee and retired without ever playing a down for the team. One of Shanahan's great 2nd round picks along with WR Darius Watts, DE Tim Crowder and LB Terry Pierce. :rolleyes:

Cugel
03-29-2012, 02:08 PM
Vic Lombardi ‏ @VicLombardi

Close

Should the Broncos re-sign Marcus Thomas? How many NFL defensive tackles can do a back flip? Yeah, they need Marcus Thomas.

Still no further word on the Marcus Thomas front, but at least he still hasn't signed with anybody else. If they sign Thomas and Warren stays healthy their starters won't be horrible. They will still need decent backups of course and should still draft a DT.

Joel
04-03-2012, 07:23 AM
The short answer is a legit do-it-all Mike and an impenetrable DT (ideally, but not necessarily, one who can push the inside of a pocket.) Additionally, a solid sure-tackling safety who can tag in for DJ/Woodyard and that Mike when TEs, RBs, and slot receivers go deep, and/or can blitz and run stuff like Lynch and Dawkins, would be nice. However, since Champ can fill all those roles but has lost a step, we might be better served in a few years if we just found another shutdown CB now and moved him to safety.

Unfortunately, none of that seems likely soon. We just locked in Mays for $4 million next year, and drafted Irving as a Mike in the third round (and Miller as an OLB with the #2 overall pick) last year, so it's hard to envision another high pick on a LB. Conventional wisdom says we're in a similar situation at DB, having recently drafted a slew we're hoping to develop (even though only Chris Harris, an UDFA IIRC, can cover worth a darn.) Our best hope might seem the DT, since we let NO sign away our best one, but the past decade of Broncos history combined with the difficulty of finding a good one at #25+ argues against that.

Meanwhile, we just signed the most expensive FA in history as our QB despite VERY shoddy guards protecting him, so I expect/hope we'll spend a high pick and/or some of our remaining $13 million of cap there.

Chef Zambini
04-03-2012, 09:38 AM
I have been touting Champ as a SAFETY for 3 years now! as a corner, he just gets ignored and makes little impact on the game, RARELY, does he lock on to the opponents best receiver, following him across the formations, so most teams just send him away from the play on a wild goosew chase.
as a SAFETY, like ed reed, CHAMP would be able to use all his skills to disrupt an offense, putting himself in the best position to ball hawk, blitz, or run support.
as a corner he takes on one receiver, and does little.
as a safety, he can make an impact !

Chef Zambini
04-03-2012, 09:40 AM
the best single thing we can do to improve our defense is to dump goodman !

Cugel
04-03-2012, 10:31 AM
the best single thing we can do to improve our defense is to dump goodman !

Goodman's been relegated to #3 CB by the arrival of Terry Porter. He's purely a backup to be used in nickel coverage now unless someone gets injured. And that's a good thing.

With the addition of Mike Adams who is an outstanding pure cover FS to replace Rahim Moore (the 2nd round draft bust of 2011) Denver's secondary is much improved this year.

If only we could say that about the DL and LB corps. :tsk:

Chef Zambini
04-03-2012, 01:18 PM
goodman in the nickel, any smart QB will drop a dime on him !
he is a TARGET !
we are better off just going with TEN defenders, as aposed to showing the QB "look, here is our weakest link, where you are guaranteed success".
seriously, every opposing QB just goes to the line, looks for GOODMAN, and then calls a play to exploit his incompetence !
LIABILITY, thy name is GOODMAN !

MOtorboat
04-03-2012, 04:18 PM
No worries, zam has never met a cornerback he's liked. By game four he'll be bitching about Porter...

Ravage!!!
04-03-2012, 04:20 PM
Hmm.... I have a new thought. I'm not sure if you guys have mentioned this. But what do you guys think about our DTs and the need to improve them?

Simple Jaded
04-03-2012, 04:56 PM
Iirc, the Broncos gave Goodman a 10 mil signing bonus on a 5 year contract, along with another 5 mil in playing time incentives. Cutting Goodman might actually cost money.......

dogfish
04-03-2012, 04:57 PM
Hmm.... I have a new thought. I'm not sure if you guys have mentioned this. But what do you guys think about our DTs and the need to improve them?

demaryius thomas is the only DT we need. . .

:cool:

Cugel
04-03-2012, 05:39 PM
Hmm.... I have a new thought. I'm not sure if you guys have mentioned this. But what do you guys think about our DTs and the need to improve them?

Hell no! The Ghost of Ty Warren, plus those two small speed-bumps Mitch Unrein and Vickerson will do wonders this season! Who needs any more DTs when you have three such players? And have I forgotten to mention the awesome Ryan McBean?

Cugel
04-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Iirc, the Broncos gave Goodman a 10 mil signing bonus on a 5 year contract, along with another 5 mil in playing time incentives. Cutting Goodman might actually cost money.......

Goodman isn't the guy you want covering the #2 WR, but he's still a CB and can cover #3 WR and TEs. He's not as horrible as all that. He just isn't who you want starting, which is why they got Porter.

He'll do just fine in a backup role especially since they now have Mike Adams at FS instead of the apparently useless Moore (at least the coaches seem to think Moore's useless because they are paying Adams $4 million to replace him).

Simple Jaded
04-03-2012, 05:48 PM
Goodman isn't the guy you want covering the #2 WR, but he's still a CB and can cover #3 WR and TEs. He's not as horrible as all that. He just isn't who you want starting, which is why they got Porter.

He'll do just fine in a backup role especially since they now have Mike Adams at FS instead of the apparently useless Moore (at least the coaches seem to think Moore's useless because they are paying Adams $4 million to replace him).
I like the idea of having Bailey, Porter, Goodman and Harris at CB. You're gonna need all of them against the Patriots. Although I don't know if you have the LCB you need to move Bailey around.......

dogfish
04-03-2012, 05:53 PM
Goodman isn't the guy you want covering the #2 WR, but he's still a CB and can cover #3 WR and TEs. He's not as horrible as all that. He just isn't who you want starting, which is why they got Porter.

He'll do just fine in a backup role especially since they now have Mike Adams at FS instead of the apparently useless Moore (at least the coaches seem to think Moore's useless because they are paying Adams $4 million to replace him).

at over 4 million bucks this year IIRC, goody's vastly overpaid as a nickel back-- chris harris can filly the position as well if not better, for a fraction of the cost. . . if they want veteran depth, they should release goodman and sign somebody (hell, re-sign goody if they want) at a price more commensurate with the nickel or dime role. . .

Simple Jaded
04-03-2012, 05:56 PM
I think Goodman is gonna cost you 4mil whether he plays for you or not, if that's the case it makes no sense to cut him. 2013 is another story.......