Small Blurb about Draft, McD and Orton

[Dirk]

I sure hope that King is right. No QB in the first round!!

2. I think the Broncos may trade up in the first round, but not for what you think. Not for a quarterback. Maybe for Tyson Jackson, the LSU defensive end who's the best-available 3-4 defensive end in the draft, or Texas pass-rusher Brian Orakpo. I'm not saying it's impossible they'll draft a quarterback, but believe me when I tell you Josh McDaniels likes Kyle Orton a lot.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/12/mmqb/3.html

[broncofaninfla]

I hope we don't get a QB in round 1 this year. Next years class will be better for QB's.

[Nomad]

I sure hope that King is right. No QB in the first round!!

2. I think the Broncos may trade up in the first round, but not for what you think. Not for a quarterback. Maybe for Tyson Jackson, the LSU defensive end who's the best-available 3-4 defensive end in the draft, or Texas pass-rusher Brian Orakpo. I'm not saying it's impossible they'll draft a quarterback, but believe me when I tell you Josh McDaniels likes Kyle Orton a lot.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/12/mmqb/3.html


Jackson does have a nose for the QB!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MeTrQ124Q

[NightTrainLayne]

It keeps appearing to me that Peter King has an inside track with McDaniels. He may be our next Adam Schefter.

[BigDaddyBronco]

It keeps appearing to me that Peter King has an inside track with McDaniels. He may be our next Adam Schefter.

He has been all over NE's jock for the last few years so it wouldn't surprise me.

I'm surprised that people are thinking that Jackson would be gone at 12. Hmmm. I'm still hoping for Raji or Jackson at 12 and the best available LB at 18.

[TXBRONC]

He has been all over NE's jock for the last few years so it wouldn't surprise me.

I'm surprised that people are thinking that Jackson would be gone at 12. Hmmm. I'm still hoping for Raji or Jackson at 12 and the best available LB at 18.

Everything I have ever heard about Jackson is that he will probably go somewhere between where we draft at 12 and end of the first round. Raji making it out of the top ten is slim unless the rumors are true he failed his drug test and even then still may be top ten pick.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Everything I have ever heard about Jackson is that he will probably go somewhere between where we draft at 12 and end of the first round. Raji making it out of the top ten is slim unless the rumors are true he failed his drug test and even then still may be top ten pick.
Article in the post had us trading #12 and a 3rd to Jacksonville at #8 to get Raji. It works points-wise, but other things would have to happen for Jacksonville to want to drop back. Not likely.

I can still hope. :D

A lot of stuff I have read or seen has Jackson gone by our #18 pick. He would be our next Trevor Pryce (hopefully).

[LRtagger]

I think we would trade up from 18 to nab Jackson, not 12.

[TXBRONC]

Article in the post had us trading #12 and a 3rd to Jacksonville at #8 to get Raji. It works points-wise, but other things would have to happen for Jacksonville to want to drop back. Not likely.

I can still hope. :D

A lot of stuff I have read or seen has Jackson gone by our #18 pick. He would be our next Trevor Pryce (hopefully).

Certainly there still room to hope at the point in time.

[Dirk]

They have to be looking at Dline. At least I would think With us moving towards the 3-4, it is a must to grab some meat for that line!

I'm thinking Raji is a target of theirs. Part rational thinking and part my own personal desire.

[TXBRONC]

They have to be looking at Dline. At least I would think With us moving towards the 3-4, it is a must to grab some meat for that line!

I'm thinking Raji is a target of theirs. Part rational thinking and part my own personal desire.

Unless Denver is willing at least attempt to trade up into the top ten I don't know if legitimately target Raji. I like Raji as well but it doesn't look like he's going to fall far enough for him to be in reach.

[Dirk]

Unless Denver is willing at least attempt to trade up into the top ten I don't know if legitimately target Raji. I like Raji as well but it doesn't look like he's going to fall far enough for him to be in reach.


Shhhhhhh! Don't say that! :D

[TXBRONC]

Shhhhhhh! Don't say that! :D

Ok. :salute:

[weazel]

stay where we are at. We need all the picks we have, too many holes on this team

[TXBRONC]

stay where we are at. We need all the picks we have, too many holes on this team

I'm not saying we should trade up but even with at many picks as we have it doesn't mean we'll be able to fill all the holes. Quality is more important than quantity in the long run in my opinion.

[claymore]

I'm not saying we should trade up but even with at many picks as we have it doesn't mean we'll be able to fill all the holes. Quality is more important than quantity in the long run in my opinion.

Good thing is that we have so many holes, that we can pretty much take the best player available at every pick. We shouldnt have to reach on anyone. :D

[Tned]

It keeps appearing to me that Peter King has an inside track with McDaniels. He may be our next Adam Schefter.

Could be. With him being a hot NFL guy between SI, Inside the NFL and a few other shows over the last 5-10 years, combined with him being born in Mass and growing up in Connecticut and now living in the north east (NJ, I think), I'm sure he has spent a lot of time around the NE Pats the last 5+ years with all the SB wins, near perfect seasons, etc.

It might be that he had a good relationships with the Pats and now McDaniels.

[getlynched47]

Kyle Orton is Josh McDaniels' new boy toy. But I think he still misses Cassel :coffee:

[getlynched47]

stay where we are at. We need all the picks we have, too many holes on this team

I would stay and grab Tyson Jackson at 12, Ron Brace at 18 (Second best Nose Tackle in entire draft)

[Dirk]

Kyle Orton is Josh McDaniels' new boy toy. But I think he still misses Cassel :coffee:

:rofl:

[TXBRONC]

I would stay and grab Tyson Jackson at 12, Ron Brace at 18 (Second best Nose Tackle in entire draft)

Brace is still seen as second round pick isn't he?

[Northman]

Brace is still seen as second round pick isn't he?


Yea, but no draft ever goes as planned. If your a team that covets a player my theory is you take him wherever you get the chance. especially if other teams know he is on your radar. Its that whole cat and mouse thing.

[claymore]

Brace is still seen as second round pick isn't he?

Yes, but he is the second best DT so someone will reach. I hope it isnt us. If he is there in the second I say hell yeah.

[getlynched47]

Brace is still seen as second round pick isn't he?

No Brace will go in the 1st round. There are so many 3-4 teams now, and there are 3 or 4 new teams switching to the 3-4 this season. A Nose Tackle that can play the 3-4 is in high demand, and Ron Brace is one of the top two Nose Tackles in the entire draft. He won't make it out of the first round.

[honz]

I would stay and grab Tyson Jackson at 12, Ron Brace at 18 (Second best Nose Tackle in entire draft)
I'd like this, but if Brace is their guy I think they should try to trade back a few spots and pick up an extra pick. I think Brace would probably still be there at 22-25 or so.

[broncohead]

No Brace will go in the 1st round. There are so many 3-4 teams now, and there are 3 or 4 new teams switching to the 3-4 this season. A Nose Tackle that can play the 3-4 is in high demand, and Ron Brace is one of the top two Nose Tackles in the entire draft. He won't make it out of the first round.

You basically say he's a 1st rd pick because he is the 2nd best NT not because of talent. That would be a horrible pick.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Brace isn't worth the #18 selection, regardless of how bad we need a nose tackle. I agree that teams have and will value certain players more if they see a definite need at a position; but by no means is Brace a top 20 player in this years draft.

[TXBRONC]

I'd like this, but if Brace is their guy I think they should try to trade back a few spots and pick up an extra pick. I think Brace would probably still be there at 22-25 or so.

I don't remember where I read it but some suggested that Brace could go in bottom portion of the first round (somewhere closer to the bottom than you're even suggesting). Brace is the nose tackle that like after Raji but I wouldn't want Denver to take him to high if they can avoid it.

[LRtagger]

stay where we are at. We need all the picks we have, too many holes on this team

That depends.


I would rather us trade up a few spots and give away a 3rd or 4th rounder to get "THE" guy than stay put and draft two guys that the staff isn't as high on. If it means having to move up a couple spots to get the guy the staff thinks is special, then by all means do so.

We could end up with the next Jarvis Moss or the next Jay Cutler. You never know, but we have enough picks that we can be flexible in getting the exact guys that we want.

[TXBRONC]

That depends.


I would rather us trade up a few spots and give away a 3rd or 4th rounder to get "THE" guy than stay put and draft two guys that the staff isn't as high on. If it means having to move up a couple spots to get the guy the staff thinks is special, then by all means do so.

We could end up with the next Jarvis Moss or the next Jay Cutler. You never know, but we have enough picks that we can be flexible in getting the exact guys that we want.

McDaniels has said pretty much same thing.

[DenBronx]

one things for sure is we need raji. i mean thats one area that we need a NT thats not going to be a career backup at that position. if were trading up for anyone in the top 10 i would hope and expect it to be raji. from pick 12 to 9 or 10? maybe we could ship our 1st and one of our 3rds.

we could go raji then pick up tyson jackson at 18. that would leave us hoping that a good linebacker will be there with our 2nd.

[TXBRONC]

one things for sure is we need raji. i mean thats one area that we need a NT thats not going to be a career backup at that position. if were trading up for anyone in the top 10 i would hope and expect it to be raji. from pick 12 to 9 or 10? maybe we could ship our 1st and one of our 3rds.

we could go raji then pick up tyson jackson at 18. that would leave us hoping that a good linebacker will be there with our 2nd.

If I'm not mistaken someone said it would take our 12th overall pick plus a 3rd to move up to the 8th spot in the draft. That would still leave us with two number one picks and 4 in the top 85.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

No sense in trading up from #12. If TJax is taken, there is a damn good chance that Raji slips. There are only 11 slots before us and a crapload of really good prospects. Now if Raji lasts til #12, I would be the first in line to try and trade up from 18 to get TJax. If it'd only take a #3 to move up from 12 to 8, then I'd gladly offer that same #3 to move from 18 to 15. We land both of those dudes in rd1 and we have legit reason to be excited about the future of this defense.

[getlynched47]

No sense in trading up from #12. If TJax is taken, there is a damn good chance that Raji slips. There are only 11 slots before us and a crapload of really good prospects. Now if Raji lasts til #12, I would be the first in line to try and trade up from 18 to get TJax. If it'd only take a #3 to move up from 12 to 8, then I'd gladly offer that same #3 to move from 18 to 15. We land both of those dudes in rd1 and we have legit reason to be excited about the future of this defense.

The only question is, how much is it going to cost us to move up from 18 to get Tyson Jackson before San Diego steals him away at 16?

[Simple Jaded]

You'd think The QuarterBack Whisperering Eye's faith in Orton alone would be enough to garner a high 1st round pick in a trade for him.

Tyson Jackson is not the 12th best player in this draft.......

[SmilinAssasSin27]

You'd think The QuarterBack Whisperering Eye's faith in Orton alone would be enough to garner a high 1st round pick in a trade for him.

Tyson Jackson is not the 12th best player in this draft.......

He's not the 12th most "athletic" player, but then neither are most of the offensive linemen. He fits a role that doesn't need crazy athleticism. He is big, strong and can make plays when needed to. He comes from an incredible system and has played against top level competition almost every week. In the 3-4, the DLine is uber-important. he fills 1/3 of that. 12 is not too high to draft him.

[EMB6903]

Anything King says expect the opposite... esspecially if you are a Broncos fan..

my goodness has that dude been wrong this offseason

[getlynched47]

You'd think The QuarterBack Whisperering Eye's faith in Orton alone would be enough to garner a high 1st round pick in a trade for him.

Tyson Jackson is not the 12th best player in this draft.......

Tyson Jackson would immediately upgrade a poor rush defense. He's the epitomy of a run-stopping Defensive End in a 3-4...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

The only question is, how much is it going to cost us to move up from 18 to get Tyson Jackson before San Diego steals him away at 16?

If we got Raji at 12, I'd gladly give up the #2 to move up ahead of SD for TJax. I honestly feel that if we landed those 2 guys, the draft would be a huge success. If we traded away the rest of our picks for future picks, I'd still be content.

[getlynched47]

If we got Raji at 12, I'd gladly give up the #2 to move up ahead of SD for TJax. I honestly feel that if we landed those 2 guys, the draft would be a huge success. If we traded away the rest of our picks for future picks, I'd still be content.

There's no denying that BJ Raji and Tyson Jackson would GREATLY improve a horrible defensive line. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that it happens. A great defensive line makes the Defensive backs look so much better.......we also need a pass rusher too.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

There's no denying that BJ Raji and Tyson Jackson would GREATLY improve a horrible defensive line. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that it happens. A great defensive line makes the Defensive backs look so much better.......we also need a pass rusher too.

I believe we may just have the pass rushers though. Elvis can certainly get to the QB. Moss was a 3-4 OLB prospect coming out of college. I agree more talent infused would only help, but I'd still gladly take Raji and TJax and call it a day.

[getlynched47]

I believe we may just have the pass rushers though. Elvis can certainly get to the QB. Moss was a 3-4 OLB prospect coming out of college. I agree more talent infused would only help, but I'd still gladly take Raji and TJax and call it a day.

You mean you would be happy if Raji and Jackson were our only two picks in the NFL draft?? :lol: We still need some cornerbacks and safeties, an Inner linebacker and another pass rusher.

But I just don't see Elvis Dumervil and Jarvis Moss both being our starting OLB. I think that probably they will fight it out for the SOLB in training camp, which leaves us with a hole at either WILB or WOLB.......which ever we draft we can throw DJ Williams at the other spot because I believe Andra Davis is our SILB starter.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

You mean you would be happy if Raji and Jackson were our only two picks in the NFL draft?? :lol: We still need some cornerbacks and safeties, an Inner linebacker and another pass rusher.

But I just don't see Elvis Dumervil and Jarvis Moss both being our starting OLB. I think that probably they will fight it out for the SOLB in training camp, which leaves us with a hole at either WILB or WOLB.......which ever we draft we can throw DJ Williams at the other spot because I believe Andra Davis is our SILB starter.

I of course want mor eplayers, but I also don't hate what we have. I believe that Shanny drafted good 3-4 players. Problem is, he ran a 4-3. Our secondary will be awesome. If we get any pass rush at all, our pass D will be solid. I like DJ and Larsen in the middle w/ Moss and Elvios outside. Sure we could improve there, but I'd be willing to give em a season to see what they could do.

[getlynched47]

I of course want mor eplayers, but I also don't hate what we have. I believe that Shanny drafted good 3-4 players. Problem is, he ran a 4-3. Our secondary will be awesome. If we get any pass rush at all, our pass D will be solid. I like DJ and Larsen in the middle w/ Moss and Elvios outside. Sure we could improve there, but I'd be willing to give em a season to see what they could do.

I'm iffy on Moss and Dumervil both being starters. I think, for example, if we draft Maualuga, then DJ Williams will be our WOLB. But if we draft Clint Sintim, he will be our WOLB and DJ Williams will be our WILB.

I don't see how Andra Davis wouldn't be a starter. He's the most experienced in a 3-4 on our entire roster.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm iffy on Moss and Dumervil both being starters. I think, for example, if we draft Maualuga, then DJ Williams will be our WOLB. But if we draft Clint Sintim, he will be our WOLB and DJ Williams will be our WILB.

I don't see how Andra Davis wouldn't be a starter. He's the most experienced in a 3-4 on our entire roster.

And I even forgot about Davis. Hell...I HATE Boss Bailey but quite a few have mentioned that he was actually a nice fit for that quasi-3-4 we played in 08. I like Barrett and Woodyard too. We have some players, but we need to get tougher. I think w/ Larsen getting a shot, Dawkins signing and TJax and/or Raji getting drafted, we are a lot more imposing than we have been in quite some time.

And don't forget...we still have Champ.

[getlynched47]

And I even forgot about Davis. Hell...I HATE Boss Bailey but quite a few have mentioned that he was actually a nice fit for that quasi-3-4 we played in 08. I like Barrett and Woodyard too. We have some players, but we need to get tougher. I think w/ Larsen getting a shot, Dawkins signing and TJax and/or Raji getting drafted, we are a lot more imposing than we have been in quite some time.

And don't forget...we still have Champ.

Imposing only IF we fix that defensive line :lol:

11 days and 20 hours until we find out :werd:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

we will. we have to.

[getlynched47]

we will. we have to.

We dont know how good or bad McDaniels and Xanders are when it comes to player personel and player evaluations. He already kinda screwed it up once with the baby back bitch Cutler, I hope he gets this draft right. We can't afford any busts.

[TXBRONC]

He's not the 12th most "athletic" player, but then neither are most of the offensive linemen. He fits a role that doesn't need crazy athleticism. He is big, strong and can make plays when needed to. He comes from an incredible system and has played against top level competition almost every week. In the 3-4, the DLine is uber-important. he fills 1/3 of that. 12 is not too high to draft him.

I will say this Jackson has the perfect size to be a very good 3-4 defensive end.

[MOtorboat]

I will say this Jackson has the perfect size to be a very good 3-4 defensive end.

I think you meant it to read this.

[TXBRONC]

I think you meant it to read this.

Yes and I fixed. :salute:

[Simple Jaded]

He's not the 12th most "athletic" player, but then neither are most of the offensive linemen. He fits a role that doesn't need crazy athleticism. He is big, strong and can make plays when needed to. He comes from an incredible system and has played against top level competition almost every week. In the 3-4, the DLine is uber-important. he fills 1/3 of that. 12 is not too high to draft him.

Look across the league, NE/B-more are the only 3-4 teams with DL's taken that high.......and Tyson Jackson is no Ty Warren, Richard Seymour or Haloti Ngata, he is not a playmaker, never has been and never will be.

If he's there at 18, maybe, but the 12th pick in the draft is too high for Tyson Jackson, imo.

Better yet, trade some of the backup players you'd get later in the draft and move up to get an impact player.

Btw, if DL is so important, makes you wonder why Doogie basically chose to ignore the position in free agency.......on the other hand, the Fields/Reid/Peterson signings where a hell of a lot more impactful (Made up word) than the Andra Davis signing, meaning LB is still an enormous issue. Doogie has done next to nothing with the DL, he's done even less with the LB position.......

[TXBRONC]

Look across the league, NE/B-more are the only 3-4 teams with DL's taken that high.......and Tyson Jackson is no Ty Warren, Richard Seymour or Haloti Ngata, he is not a playmaker, never has been and never will be.

If he's there at 18, maybe, but the 12th pick in the draft is too high for Tyson Jackson, imo.

Better yet, trade some of the backup players you'd get later in the draft and move up to get an impact player.

Btw, if DL is so important, makes you wonder why Doogie basically chose to ignore the position in free agency.......on the other hand, the Fields/Reid/Peterson signings where a hell of a lot more impactful (Made up word) than the Andra Davis signing, meaning LB is still an enormous issue. Doogie has done next to nothing with the DL, he's done even less with the LB position.......

All three of New England's defensive linemen were number one picks. The Steelers on the other hand have only one guy in their front three that was a number one pick.

[horsepig]

What about Orakpu, I've seen a lot of comments about this guy being just an athletic freak, a legitimate impact type. I didn't see much college ball and don't know about this. Could he be there a #12 if Raji is gone? Is he worth the #12?

[MOtorboat]

Btw, if DL is so important, makes you wonder why Doogie basically chose to ignore the position in free agency.......

Which retreads did you want him to overpay for?

[Simple Jaded]

All three of New England's defensive linemen were number one picks. The Steelers on the other hand have only one guy in their front three that was a number one pick.

I'm talking about the 12th pick, as far as I know, Seymour/Warren/Ngata are the 3-4 lineman taken that high.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it, just not Tyson Jackson, he's not that good.......he played containment on truly talented DL his entire college career, and considering how much Glenn Dorsey struggled and that Jackson is no where near the prospect Dorsey is/was, Jackson should have the same redflags.

It is a position of need and he has the intangibles, but I don't think we're talking about Trevor Pryce here, he's more like Aaron Smith, yet neither of those players were ever worth the 12th pick in the draft.

If you're reading the same reports on Jackson that I am, you don't think he's special either, and just because he fits a need, it doesn't mean you take him 12th overall.......

[Simple Jaded]

Which retreads did you want him to overpay for?

Where should I start? Any one of them that has actually started a full season in the NFL.

Some teams actually use free agency to acquire starters.......

[MOtorboat]

Where should I start? Any one of them that has actually started a full season in the NFL.

Some teams actually use free agency to acquire starters.......

Andra Davis
Andre Goodman
Brian Dawkins
Relando Hill

All starters. I guess I am being realistic about the defensive lineman out there on the market.

But I would implore you to tell me which players Denver could have signed. (there aren't very many)

[MOtorboat]

The one player I will fault Denver for not going after is Grady Jackson.

But that's it.

[Simple Jaded]

Andra Davis
Andre Goodman
Brian Dawkins
Relando Hill

All starters. I guess I am being realistic about the defensive lineman out there on the market.

But I would implore you to tell me which players Denver could have signed. (there aren't very many)

All starters who should be backups.

Chris Canty or even Igor Olshansky should have been priority #1 instead of Matt Cassell and Lonie Paxton.......that's my point, if DL was such a huge issue (and it is), it should have been taken more seriously than it was.......

[MOtorboat]

All starters who should be backups.

Chris Canty or even Igor Olshansky should have been priority #1 instead of Matt Cassell and Lonie Paxton.......that's my point, if DL was such a huge issue (and it is), it should have been taken more seriously than it was.......

You're assuming that Canty and Olshansky wanted to sign with Denver, in the first place.

Canty signed with his hometown team, and Olshansky infamously hates the Broncos...

So again, you're assuming that either player would sign in Denver.

[TXBRONC]

All starters who should be backups.

Chris Canty or even Igor Olshansky should have been priority #1 instead of Matt Cassell and Lonie Paxton.......that's my point, if DL was such a huge issue (and it is), it should have been taken more seriously than it was.......

Dawkins is a capable starter. The other guys on MB's list I'm lukewarm to right now.

[MOtorboat]

Dawkins is a capable starter. The other guys on MB's list I'm lukewarm to right now.

Andra Davis will start, and should.

The other two are at least borderline, and I'll admit that, but its not like they ignored the defense, as some have asserted.

[Tempus Fugit]

All starters who should be backups.

Chris Canty or even Igor Olshansky should have been priority #1 instead of Matt Cassell and Lonie Paxton.......that's my point, if DL was such a huge issue (and it is), it should have been taken more seriously than it was.......

Dawkins should be a backup while the wildly overpaid Canty should have been chased? Really?

[getlynched47]

Andra Davis will start, and should.

The other two are at least borderline, and I'll admit that, but its not like they ignored the defense, as some have asserted.

I agree. Andra Davis has the most experience in a 3-4 defense than anybody else on our roster right now.

I hated the Renaldo Hill signing...he's a poor excuse for a safety.

[Broncolingus]

I sure hope that King is right. No QB in the first round!!

I hope he's right, too...

Jackson and Brown in the 1st, mehopes.

[TXBRONC]

Andra Davis will start, and should.

The other two are at least borderline, and I'll admit that, but its not like they ignored the defense, as some have asserted.

Agreed.

[Elevation inc]

Dawkins should be a backup while the wildly overpaid Canty should have been chased? Really?

well actually dawkins is a glorfied john lynch....great in the box, with great leadership skills, who is quickly declining in his athletic abilites. he cant cover and he lacks the speed he did, while he is a fearsome player and hitter just like john lynch was, he does not have the abilites to play both the run and pass.

so why give 7.2 million guarenteed to a guy like that and sign him for 5 years?????


rest assured while some of you all may like the pick-ups we have, and while some bring expirience and leadership we needed, we did very little to address what has been a issue with this team for quite a few years now and thats the front seven.

[TXBRONC]

well actually dawkins is a glorfied john lynch....great in the box, with great leadership skills, who is quickly declining in his athletic abilites. he cant cover and he lacks the speed he did, while he is a fearsome player and hitter just like john lynch was, he does not have the abilites to play both the run and pass.

so why give 7.2 million guarenteed to a guy like that and sign him for 5 years?????


rest assured while some of you all may like the pick-ups we have, and while some bring expirience and leadership we needed, we did very little to address what has been a issue with this team for quite a few years now and thats the front seven.

I think we'll get more out of Dawkins than we will the rest of the secondary pick ups but I also we'll be fortunate to get two years out of him.

[Tempus Fugit]

I think we'll get more out of Dawkins than we will the rest of the secondary pick ups but I also we'll be fortunate to get two years out of him.

Look at what both the Chiefs and Broncos have done with their defenses. They've gone out and gotten savvy veterans to shore up terrible defenses. It's as much to instill work ethic and teach the young players how things are done as it is to compete this season. If Dawkins can only play 2 seasons, but teaches the youngsters how quality veterans become quality veterans in the process, he'll have been worth every penny of his contract.

People (not referring to you) here need to stop complaining about what's not been done. This team's defense was a trainwreck, and it's going to take a lot of fixing. Overpaying for a Canty when there are so many other problems on the defense is exactly the sort of move you want to avoid.

[TXBRONC]

Look at what both the Chiefs and Broncos have done with their defenses. They've gone out and gotten savvy veterans to shore up terrible defenses. It's as much to instill work ethic and teach the young players how things are done as it is to compete this season. If Dawkins can only play 2 seasons, but teaches the youngsters how quality veterans become quality veterans in the process, he'll have been worth every penny of his contract.

People (not referring to you) here need to stop complaining about what's not been done. This team's defense was a trainwreck, and it's going to take a lot of fixing. Overpaying for a Canty when there are so many other problems on the defense is exactly the sort of move you want to avoid.

I would say that McDaniels is hoping that the leadership that Dawkins brings will rub off on younger players but it remains to be seen. If McDaniel's is unable to put together a front seven that can put pressure on opposing quarterbacks the chances are our new secondary wont look much better than last year's in my opinion.

I can appreciate the argument about the expense of Canty and true Canty wouldn't fix all the problems on the defense however, bringing in a proven player like Canty mean you have one less problem to fix and then some other problem could be addressed. As it stands every position along front seven is still a huge question mark and one or two drafts more than like wont fix all the problems either.

[bcbronc]

Article in the post had us trading #12 and a 3rd to Jacksonville at #8 to get Raji. It works points-wise, but other things would have to happen for Jacksonville to want to drop back. Not likely.

I can still hope. :D

A lot of stuff I have read or seen has Jackson gone by our #18 pick. He would be our next Trevor Pryce (hopefully).

something like this is the only trade-up in the first round I wouldn't be pissed about. adding nothing more than a 3rd, and only for Raji.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a pick n switch happen here, depending on what Jax was after. they take Raji, and then if the QB or OT of their choice is still on the board at #12, we do a deal.


You mean you would be happy if Raji and Jackson were our only two picks in the NFL draft?? :lol: We still need some cornerbacks and safeties, an Inner linebacker and another pass rusher.

But I just don't see Elvis Dumervil and Jarvis Moss both being our starting OLB. I think that probably they will fight it out for the SOLB in training camp, which leaves us with a hole at either WILB or WOLB.......which ever we draft we can throw DJ Williams at the other spot because I believe Andra Davis is our SILB starter.

why do you think that? I don't think either projects well to having to fight through blocks to make plays in the running game. I see both battling it out for a pass-rushing role at WOLB. if they can't cut it there, I don't see either fitting anywhere else. just my opinion of course, but I definitely don't see them as strong side players.

and DJ is an absolute horrible option as WOLB, again imo. his best spot in a 34 is WILB, preferably playing beside a real thumper who can take on OGs and leave DJ clean to fly to the ball. that's his best asset, his ability to pursue the ball. and pass rushing is probably his worst asset. sure, he can close on a QB if he has a clear lane, but I'm not at all confident in his ability to consistantly beat blockers. if you're running a 3-4 and a HB can pick up your WOLB more times than not, it's going to be a long season.

[Elevation inc]

Look at what both the Chiefs and Broncos have done with their defenses. They've gone out and gotten savvy veterans to shore up terrible defenses. It's as much to instill work ethic and teach the young players how things are done as it is to compete this season. If Dawkins can only play 2 seasons, but teaches the youngsters how quality veterans become quality veterans in the process, he'll have been worth every penny of his contract.

People (not referring to you) here need to stop complaining about what's not been done. This team's defense was a trainwreck, and it's going to take a lot of fixing. Overpaying for a Canty when there are so many other problems on the defense is exactly the sort of move you want to avoid.


how is it overpaying when you pay the same guarenteed money to a 36 year old safety you would have given to a younger DE that upgrades the talent on your front seven where football is actually won....

so i guess we should just get aging, savy veterans with limited athletic ability to make our defense top ten right, wait new englands tried that approach and has for the last 5 years and guess what they have no SB rings to show for it.....defense is the reason new england hasnt gotten a ring again, and that philosphy is great and all for them but this is a newer faster era, where players like dawkins, renaldo hill, and andre goodman are becoming so athletically irrelevant that its almost a libaility putting them out there....

[Tempus Fugit]

how is it overpaying when you pay the same guarenteed money to a 36 year old safety you would have given to a younger DE that upgrades the talent on your front seven where football is actually won....

5 years, $17 million, 7.2 guaranteed For Dawkins

6 years, $42 million, 17.25 guaranteed for Canty

[Elevation inc]

5 years, $17 million, 7.2 guaranteed For Dawkins

6 years, $42 million, 17.25 guaranteed for Canty

the original asking price was for 7 million guarenteed this was when canty was getting ready to hit the market, obviously he went to where the money is the point is we didnt even bring him in or any worthwhile defensive player to show we were even considering a attempt to fix our meager front seven....


however i will say my concerns will cease if we draft right, and dont do something like trade up for mark sanchez;)

[Tempus Fugit]

the original asking price was for 7 million guarenteed this was when canty was getting ready to hit the market, obviously he went to where the money is the point is we didnt even bring him in or any worthwhile defensive player to show we were even considering a attempt to fix our meager front seven....


however i will say my concerns will cease if we draft right, and dont do something like trade up for mark sanchez;)

5 years, $17 million, 7.2 guaranteed For Dawkins

6 years, $42 million, 17.25 guaranteed for Canty

Again, the idea is to bring in value players, not to overpay for players who don't deserve the cash. The ex-Patriots will help implement the system that McDaniels wants to put in place, and that's worth some extra money. Grizzled veterans like Dawkins will help show the young players what it takes to win in the NFL. A lot of the other players are just the "throw them against the wall to see which stick" type of players that a rebuilding team is smart to bring in.

[DenBronx]

You're assuming that Canty and Olshansky wanted to sign with Denver, in the first place.

Canty signed with his hometown team, and Olshansky infamously hates the Broncos...

So again, you're assuming that either player would sign in Denver.

money talks.

wasnt dj a raider fan growing up and dispised the broncos?

[TXBRONC]

money talks.

wasn't dj a raider fan growing up and despised the broncos?

I know he grew up in California but I don't recall if was Raider fan.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I still woulda paid for Canty...but he did go home.

[TXBRONC]

I still woulda paid for Canty...but he did go home.

He's from New Jersey?

[Simple Jaded]

You're assuming that Canty and Olshansky wanted to sign with Denver, in the first place.

Canty signed with his hometown team, and Olshansky infamously hates the Broncos...

So again, you're assuming that either player would sign in Denver.

And you're assuming they wouldn't.

If Canty wanted to sign with NY all along, why did it take so long? Because he was entertaining other offers, none of which came from Doogie.

Olshansky has ties with Denver's new DL coach and didn't exactly break the bank in free agency, I sincerely doubt he'd turn down a better offer out of spite.......

[MOtorboat]

And you're assuming they wouldn't.

If Canty wanted to sign with NY all along, why did it take so long? Because he was entertaining other offers, none of which came from Doogie.

Olshansky has ties with Denver's new DL coach and didn't exactly break the bank in free agency, I sincerely doubt he'd turn down a better offer out of spite.......

I prefer to live in reality, where we understand who is willing to sign and who isn't. You, apparently, like to live in the world of "we should gave signed every free agent that is out there that 'improves' my team."

We don't know if Denver extended a contract to either player. You assume we didn't. So, since we're assuming we didn't, I'll say that it was pretty much a probability that neither would sign with Denver because they didn't want to.

Besides, we would have overpaid severely for Canty.

[Simple Jaded]

Dawkins should be a backup while the wildly overpaid Canty should have been chased? Really?

Really!

Dawkins is old as **** and is getting by on smarts and experience at this point, he's a hero in Phili, there is a reason he is no longer playing there.......because Denver overpaid for temporary veteran leadership. I atually don't have a huge problem with this, but he'll be in the shoes that John Lynch was in this time last year very soon, that's not exactly what rebuilding teams look for in a starter.

If a team with a DL like the Giants have thinks Canty is worth the money he got, I'll take their word for it, their DL is outstanding.......

[MOtorboat]

Really!

Dawkins is old as **** and is getting by on smarts and experience at this point, he's a hero in Phili, there is a reason he is no longer playing there.......because Denver overpaid for temporary veteran leadership. I atually don't have a huge problem with this, but he'll be in the shoes that John Lynch was in this time last year very soon, that's not exactly what rebuilding teams look for in a starter.

If a team with a DL like the Giants have thinks Canty is worth the money he got, I'll take their word for it, their DL is outstanding.......

Actually, it shows me one of two things...the Giants have no faith in their defensive line at this point, or they wanted to "make a splash" by signing a hometown player and will really regret it later.

The fact that a defensive line "of that caliber" signed a player like that is a bad sign.

[Simple Jaded]

I prefer to live in reality, where we understand who is willing to sign and who isn't. You, apparently, like to live in the world of "we should gave signed every free agent that is out there that 'improves' my team."

We don't know if Denver extended a contract to either player. You assume we didn't. So, since we're assuming we didn't, I'll say that it was pretty much a probability that neither would sign with Denver because they didn't want to.

Besides, we would have overpaid severely for Canty.

Again, you're assuming, just the same as me.......same difference.......

[Simple Jaded]

Actually, it shows me one of two things...the Giants have no faith in their defensive line at this point, or they wanted to "make a splash" by signing a hometown player and will really regret it later.

The fact that a defensive line "of that caliber" signed a player like that is a bad sign.

There you go assuming again.......

[MOtorboat]

Again, you're assuming, just the same as me.......same difference.......

It's fun isn't it? Especially when we lambast a coach/front office for not doing anything on the defensive line, when we have no clue what went on., who was available and what those players would have done.

You assume, I assume...it's all good fun...

[BeefStew25]

It's fun isn't it? Especially when we lambast a coach/front office for not doing anything on the defensive line, when we have no clue what went on., who was available and what those players would have done.

You assume, I assume...it's all good fun...

Except Link is not 10 BL's deep.

[Simple Jaded]

It's fun isn't it? Especially when we lambast a coach/front office for not doing anything on the defensive line, when we have no clue what went on., who was available and what those players would have done.

You assume, I assume...it's all good fun...

I didn't lambast the Coach/Front Office because they didn't do anything with the DL, I lambasted the Coach/Front Office because Darrell Reid, Ronald Fields and Kenny Peterson is the best they could do.

Considering all the uncertainties surrounding the Broncos at the moment.......a pathetic defense, a young/inexperienced offense learning a new scheme that absolutely requires the Mensa Elite to run, a Neophyte Head Coach/Gm tandem that are clearly in over their heads.......they're gonna have to do much better than that and you know it.......

[slim]

I didn't lambast the Coach/Front Office because they didn't do anything with the DL, I lambasted the Coach/Front Office because Darrell Reid, Ronald Fields and Kenny Peterson is the best they could do.

Considering all the uncertainties surrounding the Broncos at the moment.......a pathetic defense, a young/inexperienced offense learning a new scheme that absolutely requires the Mensa Elite to run, a Neophyte Head Coach/Gm tandem that are clearly in over their heads.......they're gonna have to do much better than that and you know it.......

LOL...dude :laugh:

[Simple Jaded]

LOL...dude :laugh:

I get that a lot. :D.......

[Lonestar]

Really!

Dawkins is old as **** and is getting by on smarts and experience at this point, he's a hero in Phili, there is a reason he is no longer playing there.......because Denver overpaid for temporary veteran leadership. I atually don't have a huge problem with this, but he'll be in the shoes that John Lynch was in this time last year very soon, that's not exactly what rebuilding teams look for in a starter.

If a team with a DL like the Giants have thinks Canty is worth the money he got, I'll take their word for it, their DL is outstanding.......



You bring in Wiley old vets to give the rookies someone to emulate.. who did they have last year.. who was their leader on D..

teach them how to have passion for the game while teaching them the finer points in playing coverage..

This year we have Dawkins.. maybe Davis..

[getlynched47]

You bring in Wiley old vets to give the rookies someone to emulate.. who did they have last year.. who was their leader on D..

teach them how to have passion for the game while teaching them the finer points in playing coverage..

This year we have Dawkins.. maybe Davis..

I'm pretty sure Andra Davis will be a starter. At this point, he's the most experienced in the 3-4 scheme than anybody we have on the entire roster right now.

[Simple Jaded]

You bring in Wiley old vets to give the rookies someone to emulate.. who did they have last year.. who was their leader on D..

teach them how to have passion for the game while teaching them the finer points in playing coverage..

This year we have Dawkins.. maybe Davis..

Nope, I have to disagree, every single one of the free agents were brought in to be integral players, they're being counted on to help achieve Pat Bowlen's annual quest for 19-0 as much as they are to teach the young players.

I have no interest in downplaying that, the Broncos brought nothing but in 3rd and 4th rate players with every intention of competing for the division and the playoffs. Apparently this new HC is looking to get it done with his system and coaching, he's in over his head.......

[TXBRONC]

You bring in Wiley old vets to give the rookies someone to emulate.. who did they have last year.. who was their leader on D..

teach them how to have passion for the game while teaching them the finer points in playing coverage..

This year we have Dawkins.. maybe Davis..


I don't think you can teach a player how to have passion for the game they either have it or they don't. You can teach them finer points of the game but that doesn't mean it will translate to the field.

[buffsroam]

It is a Redskin site but I have followed it over the last three years. Some of it is actually funny in a homer kind of way.


http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm