We just lost Bunkley to the Saints

[Sparky The Sun Devil]

This is absolutely terrible news

[Mike]

FO fail

[Lancane]

We lost him to a team without a GM or Head Coach, brilliant!

[camdisco24]

What a dumb move by Bunkley... I would be VERY concerned going to that team after the news that come out today. Oh well, he's a paycheck player. Would have been nice to have him back, but I'm afraid this move will bite him in the ass.

[Sparky The Sun Devil]

How many years have we spent for looking for a half way decent DTs... ughh.... our biggest weakness just doubled in vulnerability

[weazel]

how is that on the FO??

the guy knowingly signed with a team that wont have GM, HC, players, and early picks for two years... he obviously didnt care about winning, he wanted money. wow, people will try to blame everything on Elway these days.

[Mike]

how is that on the FO??

the guy knowingly signed with a team that wont have GM, HC, players, and early picks for two years... he obviously didnt care about winning, he wanted money. wow, people will try to blame everything on Elway these days.

The FO should have signed him before he went out looking. That is how it is their fail. DT was one of, if not THE, biggest need going into the offseason. Just like it has been the past decade. And they low ball the guy the only decent one we have.

Saints will be ok. They still have enough talent to compete in the NFC.

[PatriotsGuy]

The FO should have signed him before he went out looking. That is how it is their fail. DT was one of, if not THE, biggest need going into the offseason. Just like it has been the past decade. And they low ball the guy the only decent one we have.

Saints will be ok. They still have enough talent to compete in the NFC.

If Brees doesn't hold out

[vandammage13]

I like the improvement at QB, but from top to bottom, this team has not gotten better at all when it comes to other positions.

[Ziggy]

Sorry, but you can't pay 5 mill/year for a DT that played 43% of the defensive snaps. I like the way Bunk plays, but it didn't make sense to sign him for that much.

[claymore]

I trust the FO. Bunkley obviously wasnt in the plans. I dont know what we are replacing him with, but this FO is smarter than previous ones.

[NightTrainLayne]

I'd like to hve Bunkley back, but not at any price.

If he's dumb enough to sign with the Saints in their current situation, then we're probably better off spending that money on someone else.

[Mike]

Sorry, but you can't pay 5 mill/year for a DT that played 43% of the defensive snaps. I like the way Bunk plays, but it didn't make sense to sign him for that much.

He is 10X the player Mays is. While the price is a little steeper than I expected. I don't see how you sign a guy like Mays for $4 mil, but are hesitant to pay the only good clogger on your team.

Maybe this means they are looking at DT in the draft?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So, we're left with McBean :puke:, Warren :broke:, Vickerson :underachiever:, and Unrien :who?: :tsk:

****. Oh no, we suck again!!! :banghead:

Back to playing _efense in _enver.

[Jsteve01]

Sorry, but you can't pay 5 mill/year for a DT that played 43% of the defensive snaps. I like the way Bunk plays, but it didn't make sense to sign him for that much.
That is on nunelly and Allen. They rotated dt heavily. I'm sorry but if its between slightly overpayin a very stout player or goin into.the second week of fa with only unrein under contract. Well I overpay

[HORSEPOWER 56]

He is 10X the player Mays is. While the price is a little steeper than I expected. I don't see how you sign a guy like Mays for $4 mil, but are hesitant to pay the only good clogger on your team.

Maybe this means they are looking at DT in the draft?

This. /thread

[BigDaddyBronco]

He is 10X the player Mays is. While the price is a little steeper than I expected. I don't see how you sign a guy like Mays for $4 mil, but are hesitant to pay the only good clogger on your team.

Maybe this means they are looking at DT in the draft?

I'm not holding my breath. Maybe they go after some other scrub DT's.

[weazel]

The FO should have signed him before he went out looking. That is how it is their fail. DT was one of, if not THE, biggest need going into the offseason. Just like it has been the past decade. And they low ball the guy the only decent one we have.

Saints will be ok. They still have enough talent to compete in the NFC.

ummm you do realize players like to go out and test the market right? I can offer a guy a contract on the first day of FA, that doesnt mean he has to sign it, you know he has the option to sign anywhere he wants to? How do you know they didnt make an offer to him, do you have someone on the inside? if so, you should keep us abreast of all the future offers!

[Lancane]

Tracy Porter is coming to Denver for a visit, maybe they would prefer to pay him that money.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Maybe we don't need run stuffers anymore with Manning on board. Seeing that we will be leading most of the time, teams will be throwing on us, not running. :D

[Ziggy]

He is 10X the player Mays is. While the price is a little steeper than I expected. I don't see how you sign a guy like Mays for $4 mil, but are hesitant to pay the only good clogger on your team.

Maybe this means they are looking at DT in the draft?

The Mays signing still makes no sense to me either Mike. I have no clue what that abortion is all about.

[slim]

Meh...not a big loss, IMO.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

He is 10X the player Mays is. While the price is a little steeper than I expected. I don't see how you sign a guy like Mays for $4 mil, but are hesitant to pay the only good clogger on your team.

Maybe this means they are looking at DT in the draft?

Plan B - Garay... I hope we don't burn the 25 on a DT unless it's Cox...

I would rather use the $ on Bunk, forget Mays, and trade up if you have to & get Hightower...

I wonder what the contract is... I sure hope it's alot more than Soliai money.

[Mike]

Tracy Porter is coming to Denver for a visit, maybe they would prefer to pay him that money.

And one thing we know in Denver, defenses should be built from the backfield in. I guess at least we won't be facing Manning anymore.

For that matter, cut Goodman, use that money for Porter.

[Ziggy]

So, we're left with McBean :puke:, Warren :broke:, Vickerson :underachiever:, and Unrien :who?: :tsk:

****. Oh no, we suck again!!! :banghead:

Back to playing _efense in _enver.

McBean is an undervalued DT. He may not be a star, but the Broncos liked him enough to use him in more plays than Bunkley last year.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Tracy Porter is coming to Denver for a visit, maybe they would prefer to pay him that money.

So is William Gay...

[tomjonesrocks]

Gah. Elway said yesterday that pursuing Manning "didn't hurt us".

Not that I'd not say it was worth it -- but It just did.

[Ziggy]

Garay and Franklin are still out there. It's almost to the point where we need to settle for another stop gap DT again. Then again, how many people were whining last season when we settled for Broderick Bunkley?

[Buff]

I'm assuming there is more that we don't know about Bunkley. Philadelphia let him go for a 5th rounder. We made him an offer, but apparently didn't make him a huge priority. I'm guessing he's viewed as somewhat one-dimensional by front offices.

That said, there is nothing wrong with having a good run stuffer in the middle. He could have helped us.

[skins_fan82]

FO fail

100%

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Sorry, but you can't pay 5 mill/year for a DT that played 43% of the defensive snaps. I like the way Bunk plays, but it didn't make sense to sign him for that much.

So, we used to have one starting caliber DT, now we have none. We needed to keep Bunkley and find a solid 3 technique to put next to him. Now we need 2 new starting caliber DTs. I don't give a shit if we just signed Peyton Manning, if we can't stop the run, teams will beat us like they've always beaten Manning, run the ball, keep Manning and the offense on the sidelines, and eat the clock. I'd be willing to bet that Manning would really like to not have to be the one-man show everywhere he goes. He'd probably love for use to field a defense that can help him win some damned games, especially late in his career.

Spend the ******* money and build a team to win now. Peyton's age and health demand it. We can't rely on 2nd tier free agents and draft pciks if as both Elway and Manning have said "the time is now". We have to build a Championship caliber defense right now, or the Manning signing was absolutely worthless.

[Ziggy]

Plan B - Garay... I hope we don't burn the 25 on a DT unless it's Cox...

I would rather use the $ on Bunk, forget Mays, and trade up if you have to & get Hightower...

I wonder what the contract is... I sure hope it's alot more than Soliai money.

There are multiple players that would be good value with the 25th pick:
1. Devon Still
2. Jerel Worthy
3. Alameda Ta'amu
4. Fletcher Cox

[Lancane]

Hopefully we go after Sammie Lee Hill or Derek Landri.

[CoachChaz]

Time to get Derek Landri. Kid is a stud that is under-utilized. Last year was the first time he got significant playing time and he played great. Philly doesnt seem interested in re-signing him, so go get him. He's more of a UT pass-rusher, but if we can get him on the cheap and add a NT guy (Garay/Franklin), I think we'll be in decent shape.

Forget about getting a better MLB. They re-signed Mays and Woodyard and there is the MLB tandem from a year ago. Seems like they were content with that.

Interesting that nothing more has been said about McClain...and I dont think he's had any other visits.

[Ziggy]

So, we used to have one starting caliber DT, now we have none. We needed to keep Bunkley and find a solid 3 technique to put next to him. Now we need 2 new starting caliber DTs. I don't give a shit if we just signed Peyton Manning, if we can't stop the run, teams will beat us like they've always beaten Manning, run the ball, keep Manning and the offense on the sidelines, and eat the clock. I'd be willing to bet that Manning would really like to not have to be the one-man show everywhere he goes. He'd probably love for use to field a defense that can help him win some damned games, especially late in his career.

Spend the ******* money and build a team to win now. Peyton's age and health demand it. We can't rely on 2nd tier free agents and draft pciks if as both Elway and Manning have said "the time is now". We have to build a Championship caliber defense right now, or the Manning signing was absolutely worthless.

You missed the point HP. The Broncos were in the same position last season and came out of it with a decent 2 down NT. I have faith that they will do the same thing this year. You think that Elway doesn't know how important it is to get Manning a good defense? He'll get it done.

[slim]

Is Okoye still available?

[CoachChaz]

There are multiple players that would be good value with the 25th pick:
1. Devon Still
2. Jerel Worthy
3. Alameda Ta'amu
4. Fletcher Cox

Kendall Reyes

[CoachChaz]

Is Okoye still available?

Bite your tongue

[dogfish]

gawd damn it. . .

talking about not overpaying is fine-- just as long as they can get someone cheap who can consistently hold up at the point of attack. . . if not, the savings won't help us much-- i've never seen a chunk of cap space plug the A gap. . .

told you guys we wouldn't prioritize the position, though. . . remember that when you spend the rest of the off-season arguing about whether still or worthy is the better pick, and we take cordy glenn or stephon gillmore. . . :laugh:

[slim]

Bite your tongue

You don't like Okoye?

[dogfish]

You don't like Okoye?

does anyone?

:noidea:

[SpringsBroncoFan]

There are multiple players that would be good value with the 25th pick:
1. Devon Still
2. Jerel Worthy
3. Alameda Ta'amu
4. Fletcher Cox

No, I agree with Coach... just sign Garay & go ahead & grab Landri too... alot of you guys wanted Landri last season... he's only a rotational guy now but every bit helps...

Don't want Ta'amu... he's going to play fewer snaps than Bunk...

If we get Garay & Landi, I'd still draft Cox but those other guys... no too many needs... I'll "suffer" with Still if we get Garay & Landri otherwise I'd just wait until later in the draft...

We need playmakers at 1 & 2...

[slim]

does anyone?

:noidea:

No. I don't know why you guys even brought him up :noidea:

It will be Vick, McBean, Warren, Thomas and probably a rookie in the rotation.

I don't think they will sign anyone else.

[Ziggy]

No, I agree with Coach... just sign Garay & go ahead & grab Landri too... alot of you guys wanted Landri last season... he's only a rotational guy now but every bit helps...

Don't want Ta'amu... he's going to play fewer snaps than Bunk...

If we get Garay & Landi, I'd still draft Cox but those other guys... no too many needs... I'll "suffer" with Still if we get Garay & Landri otherwise I'd just wait until later in the draft...

We need playmakers at 1 & 2...

We don't need playmakers at 1 and 2, we need solid players regardless of position. Ta'amu rarely came out of the game in college. he got a rep for being out of shape because he wore down at the end of games. That's because he didn't come out of the game on most 3rd downs like other NT's.

[Cugel]

Maybe we don't need run stuffers anymore with Manning on board. Seeing that we will be leading most of the time, teams will be throwing on us, not running. :D

Totally WRONG! :coffee:

Q: What's the best way to defend against Peyton Manning?

A: Keep him on the sideline.

Q: How do you keep him off the field?

A: Run the ball effectively to eat up the clock and limit the number of series he gets.

Q: What would prevent that strategy from working?

A: A stout run defense, that's what!

Q: What do you need to have a stout run defense?

A: 3 or 4 really good DTs! :tsk:

[slim]

Totally WRONG! :coffee:

Q: What's the best way to defend against Peyton Manning?

A: Keep him on the sideline.

Q: How do you keep him off the field?

A: Run the ball effectively to eat up the clock and limit the number of series he gets.

Q: What would prevent that strategy from working?

A: A stout run defense, that's what!

Q: What do you need to have a stout run defense?

A: 3 or 4 really good DTs! :tsk:

Q: Who is gayer than aids?

A: Cugel

:coffee:

[silkamilkamonico]

LMAO at people crying "paycheck player".

Ya'll don't have a clue.

[Cugel]

No. I don't know why you guys even brought him up :noidea:

It will be Vick, McBean, Warren, Thomas and probably a rookie in the rotation.

I don't think they will sign anyone else.

Well, THAT's going to work out just great! :ranger:
1296

[slim]

Well, THAT's going to be just great! :ranger:

1295

At this point, not sure why it would surprise anyone.

[Cugel]

At this point, not sure why it would surprise anyone.

Oh, it's no surprise. It's just a typical Broncos Cluster****! They've been doing this for the last 10 years. They haven't had an elite DT on this team since a young Trevor Pryce! :tsk:

[CoachChaz]

LMAO at people crying "paycheck player".

Ya'll don't have a clue.

Yeah...because accomplishing nothing in Philly for a few years and suddenly having a decent season on a mediocre defense just screams greatness

[silkamilkamonico]

Who needs elite DT's when we can continue to sign over the hill secondary year in and out?

[silkamilkamonico]

Yeah...because accomplishing nothing in Philly for a few years and suddenly having a decent season on a mediocre defense just screams greatness

I fail to understand what that has to do with a player wanting to sign for the biggest offer?

Nothing you say?

[Cugel]

Q: Who is gayer than aids?

A: Cugel

:coffee:

Well! THAT totally refutes MY point! You prove your intelligence :drool: and win the debate hands down with that remark!

[CoachChaz]

I fail to understand what that has to do with a player wanting to sign for the biggest offer?

Nothing you say?

He does nothing in Philly...goes to a bad defense and has the best season of his career...in a contract year. Then signs with the highest bidder.

Nothing about that would make anyone think of him as a paycheck player. If he's a stud for NO next year, so be it. I just dont see it.

Problem is, this DT crew is and has been so bad for so long that Bunk's decent season looks almost All-Pro to some of us. I just dont like that flavor of Kool-Aid, I guess.

[Cugel]

Yeah...because accomplishing nothing in Philly for a few years and suddenly having a decent season on a mediocre defense just screams greatness

Bunkley was a top 10 draft pick. He was a "draft bust" in Philly because the ONLY reason you select a DT in the top 10 is that he projects as a stud PASS-RUSHING DT. (EX: Haloti Ngata or Suh). Such players are rare and projected DT pass-rushers are grabbed in the 1st round.

You can get a run-stuffing DT with no pass-rush ability in the 2nd or 3rd round, which is probably in retrospect where Bunkley should have been drafted.

He never was able to generate significant pass-rush ability in Philly. So, they let him go when his contract was up.

But, compared with the endless litany of FAILURE that was Denver's DTs he was GREAT!

And losing him sets the team back significantly. Ryan McBean is lucky to have a job in the NFL. Warren has missed the last 3 seasons. Is there any reason to think he's going to be healthy this year or that he can play at a high level even if he is? Vickerson is a career backup at best. And Thomas is not even a decent starter, let alone a comparable to a really GOOD DT.

The ONE guy on the DL who had real potential to be better than average was Bunkley. And they just let him walk. :tsk:

I don't know who they can sign at this point but they'd better get moving quickly because there's a gaping giant hole in the defense as of right now.

[silkamilkamonico]

He does nothing in Philly...goes to a bad defense and has the best season of his career...in a contract year. Then signs with the highest bidder.

Nothing about that would make anyone think of him as a paycheck player. If he's a stud for NO next year, so be it. I just dont see it.

Problem is, this DT crew is and has been so bad for so long that Bunk's decent season looks almost All-Pro to some of us. I just dont like that flavor of Kool-Aid, I guess.


He went to the highest bidder. Big deal if he's a "paycheck player". 99% of the players in the NFL are. I would argue 99% of the general population in workforce are when you're dealing with that kind of money, in only a window of 10 years. Get what you can.

[Ziggy]

It's time to send our 4th to Detroit and bring in Sammie Lee Hill.

[CoachChaz]

He went to the highest bidder. Big deal if he's a "paycheck player". 99% of the players in the NFL are. I would argue 99% of the general population in workforce are when you're dealing with that kind of money, in only a window of 10 years. Get what you can.

I'm guessing I misunderstood your "People crying about paycheck players" post.

[silkamilkamonico]

People whining about a player leaving because he gets a bigger deal elsewhere it's stupid and ignorant, imo. It's the dude's place of employment.

[rationalfan]

my read on this: denver had a set price they were willing to spend on bunkley; the saints eclipsed that. pure speculation, but if it's true that is EXACTLY what you what a front office to do. overspending kills the future.

[silkamilkamonico]

my read on this: denver had a set price they were willing to spend on bunkley; the saints eclipsed that. pure speculation, but if it's true that is EXACTLY what you what a front office to do. overspending kills the future.

I can respect that and I would not pay more for Bunkley either. I also don't blame Bunkley for going elsewhere.

Coming back to the FO though, at some point you have to have plans to replace these kind of players, otherwise you get left with decade long holes in certain positions.

[BroncoStud]

It sucks losing him but what a dumbass for going to a team that just got destroyed by the Commissioner. They don't even have a Head Coach LMAO or GM LOL...

[CoachChaz]

At the end of the day 5 mil a year is too much for a one trick pony. Soliai, Bunkley...both overpaid single gap DT's. Glad we arent paying those contracts.

[BroncoStud]

Why don't we just sign Kelly Gregg to a 1 year deal. He's available.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Why don't we just sign Kelly Gregg to a 1 year deal. He's available.

I bet we can get Lional Dalton for cheap.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

We don't need playmakers at 1 and 2, we need solid players regardless of position. Ta'amu rarely came out of the game in college. he got a rep for being out of shape because he wore down at the end of games. That's because he didn't come out of the game on most 3rd downs like other NT's.

Sorry Ziggy but solid just isn't good enough for me... I'll take Floyd, Hill, or Wright (if he runs a better 40 at his pro day - worried about his hands too). I'll take Gilmore or Cox too, playmakers all. I'll take Martin too. If they are gone, I'll take solid in Adams if they like him as a better option to protect PM or Stills because he is arguably the best DT.

In the 2nd I want a cb,will,mlb or wr if one falls that fits the bill or maybe Smith-oops forgot about Adams. Failing that I'll take solid.

If we pick Ta'amu I'll eat crow...

I'll take him or Randall in the 4th though...

[rationalfan]

I can respect that and I would not pay more for Bunkley either. I also don't blame Bunkley for going elsewhere.

Coming back to the FO though, at some point you have to have plans to replace these kind of players, otherwise you get left with decade long holes in certain positions.

you're right. but remember where bunk came from; a pre-season trade. the offseason is far from over. the broncos can get several good players through FA, the draft, cuts, etc.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

At the end of the day 5 mil a year is too much for a one trick pony. Soliai, Bunkley...both overpaid single gap DT's. Glad we arent paying those contracts.

Guess you'll be happy when I remind you that's it's 6 mil a year... :lol:

I'll be fine with it if the backup plans work out or if he gets more than Soliai, especially if we all see after the fact that the FO pushes the cap close to it's limit... not that I'm advocating wasteful spending...

[SpringsBroncoFan]

you're right. but remember where bunk came from; a pre-season trade. the offseason is far from over. the broncos can get several good players through FA, the draft, cuts, etc.

Don't know of any candidates but I was just wondering if the Broncos could have a trade sitting on the shelf, pick(s) for a player that's going to get cut as a cap casualty. That would certainly explain some penny pinching...

[jlarsiii]

He was decent for us last season but this doesn't surprise me at all. How much do you pay a DT who only stops the run? He doesn't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Heck, his last sack was during the 2009 season. For his entire career he has a total of 6 sacks. You just can't overpay a DT like that, and it looks like the Saints did just that...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

not making excuses for the FO...but Bunk was a 1 year wonder who played well in his contract year. Just sayin...

[dogfish]

I bet we can get Lional Dalton for cheap.

kris jenkins should be about ready for a comeback. . .

[Jsteve01]

false. He is a classic one gap nose and was the best at what he did last year for 4-3 tackles.

[Jsteve01]

McBean is also on the verge of suspension

[DenBronx]

I'm sorry I just don't get not resigning him.


Come up with every excuse you want but this was a mistake not resigning Bunkley. I just don't get it.

[jhildebrand]

I'm sorry I just don't get not resigning him.


Come up with every excuse you want but this was a mistake not resigning Bunkley. I just don't get it.

Hey Bunkley boy go root for the Saints. Clearly you are just a Bunkley fanboi.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

he's also on the verge of suspension

Huh, who are you talking about? It's DJ, Green, & McBean not Bunkley.

[Cugel]

Bottom Line: They either have to get someone AT LEAST as good at DT or it's a BIG mistake! :coffee:

And given Denver's history I'm not optimistic! :tsk:

Anyone remember these worthless chodes they signed in FA?

Gerrard Warren
Sam Adams
Antwon Burton
Amon Gordon
Jimmy Kennedy
Ron Fields
DeWayne Robertson

They paid millions for these FA stiffs and not one of them was worth spit. Warren was the best of them and he was barely mediocre.

Now it's back to speculating on the improbable chance that Vickerson and McBean will ever amount to jack, whether Ty Warren can possibly come back after missing 3 of the last 4 seasons due to injury and the unlikely chance that he'd be at all effective even if he did and whether Marcus Thomas can stop anybody now that he's in his 5th season.

Denver now goes back to officially having the WORST set of DTs in the entire NFL. NOT ONE of those guys would start for any other team in the league. Most of them couldn't make the 53 man roster for the majority of teams and are lucky to even have a job! :coffee:

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Bottom Line: They either have to get someone AT LEAST as good at DT or it's a BIG mistake! :coffee:

And given Denver's history I'm not optimistic! :tsk:

Anyone remember these worthless chodes they signed in FA?

Gerrard Warren
Sam Adams
Antwon Burton
Amon Gordon
Jimmy Kennedy
Ron Fields
DeWayne Robertson

They paid millions for these FA stiffs and not one of them was worth spit. Warren was the best of them and he was barely mediocre.

Now it's back to speculating on the improbable chance that Vickerson and McBean will ever amount to jack, whether Ty Warren can possibly come back after missing 3 of the last 4 seasons due to injury and the unlikely chance that he'd be at all effective even if he did and whether Marcus Thomas can stop anybody now that he's in his 5th season.

Denver now goes back to officially having the WORST set of DTs in the entire NFL. NOT ONE of those guys would start for any other team in the league. Most of them couldn't make the 53 man roster for the majority of teams and are lucky to even have a job! :coffee:

Remember it's Peyton and like Indy the idea is to get up a couple TD's and let the dogs loose... except this is Fox Nascar (not that we have the db's to run it), McBean & DE's. At least we aren't as crazy in the package as Dallas running Ratliff, Ware, & Spencer...

Hopefully we aren't going to just ride Warren like we did with Bunk... at least bring back Thomas & promote Siliga so we at least can put up some resistance on a goal line stand.

I just hope for one DT somewhere in the 1st 4 rounds... not too much to hope for is it???

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I bet we can get Lional Dalton for cheap.

Is Mario Fatafehi still available? How about Antwon Burton? No?

I really hope we bring in someone and then draft one or two DTs, too.

[bcbronc]

Bad news, no arguing otherwise.

Still, Fox and Del Rio's history with defensive tackles keeps me confident we will have good DTs...eventually.

[I Eat Staples]

Why the hell didn't we give Bunkley all of Mays' money? Re-signing Mays made was absolutely terrible, we need an actual MLB not a backup 3-4 run stuffer.

[Ravage!!!]

I was never a BIG believer in Bunkley anyway. Considering Fox is a defensive minded coach, and of course the new DC played in the NFL and was a HC... if they didn't feel he was what they needed as a player.. (or maybe not as a player for the money)... I trust in their expertise on this.

[dogfish]

I was never a BIG believer in Bunkley anyway. Considering Fox is a defensive minded coach, and of course the new DC played in the NFL and was a HC... if they didn't feel he was what they needed as a player.. (or maybe not as a player for the money)... I trust in their expertise on this.

the latter is clearly the case-- they wouldn't negotiate for a week with a guy that didn't fit what they need as a player. . . or so i would certainly hope. . .

i don't so much blame them for not paying bunkley, in particular-- getting older, up and down career with a big season in a contract year, undersized for the position with zero schematic or positional versatility, etc-- but i do blame the organization/FO as a whole for not putting more value on the position. . . that includes fox and elway passing last year in a loaded draft, and extends even more so to xanders-- he's been the GM three years now, and it's been largely ignored or poorly addressed all three of them. . .

we're lucky that a last-minute trade developed last year, and that the low risk, somewhat low odds move worked out so well. . . and lucky that fox and his staff are experienced enough to get the most out of their players, and compensate for some personnel weaknesses schematically. . . but our reliance on scraps on the DL has bitten us in the ass before, and will inevitably do so again some time in the next few years if they keep going with stopgaps. . . we probably won't see such dramatically horrible defenses as the last shanahan years, or the mcdisaster, simply because we DO have a competent defensive coaching staff. . . but it still has the potential to turn into a significant achilles heel if we don't do more than keep patching it. . .

and i really wanted us to fill it with a solid vet for the next few years, as we're so clearly in win now mode-- but the options are disappearing quickly. . . antonio garay or aubrayo franklin are probably the best options, and i could actually live with one of them if we drafted a DT in the first or second. . . but i'm not counting on either of those happening, let alone both. . .

at least manning is used to it and has proven he can still win under those conditions, i suppose. . .

i will continue to regret not overpaying for mebane a little (and just getting it taken care of, FFS!) until we get the position settled. . . or until mebane is old and ready to retire, which may come first. . .

of course, we may want him then. . . :lol:

[FlyByU]

Maybe they have there Eyes on a good DT in the Draft this year...

[Mike]

the latter is clearly the case-- they wouldn't negotiate for a week with a guy that didn't fit what they need as a player. . . or so i would certainly hope. . .

i don't so much blame them for not paying bunkley, in particular-- getting older, up and down career with a big season in a contract year, undersized for the position with zero schematic or positional versatility, etc-- but i do blame the organization/FO as a whole for not putting more value on the position. . . that includes fox and elway passing last year in a loaded draft, and extends even more so to xanders-- he's been the GM three years now, and it's been largely ignored or poorly addressed all three of them. . .

we're lucky that a last-minute trade developed last year, and that the low risk, somewhat low odds move worked out so well. . . and lucky that fox and his staff are experienced enough to get the most out of their players, and compensate for some personnel weaknesses schematically. . . but our reliance on scraps on the DL has bitten us in the ass before, and will inevitably do so again some time in the next few years if they keep going with stopgaps. . . we probably won't see such dramatically horrible defenses as the last shanahan years, or the mcdisaster, simply because we DO have a competent defensive coaching staff. . . but it still has the potential to turn into a significant achilles heel if we don't do more than keep patching it. . .

and i really wanted us to fill it with a solid vet for the next few years, as we're so clearly in win now mode-- but the options are disappearing quickly. . . antonio garay or aubrayo franklin are probably the best options, and i could actually live with one of them if we drafted a DT in the first or second. . . but i'm not counting on either of those happening, let alone both. . .

at least manning is used to it and has proven he can still win under those conditions, i suppose. . .

i will continue to regret not overpaying for mebane a little (and just getting it taken care of, FFS!) until we get the position settled. . . or until mebane is old and ready to retire, which may come first. . .

of course, we may want him then. . . :lol:

As I said, I was surprised the price was so high for him. Can't fault the FO for not paying and, IF, we had someone there to fill in then I wouldn't really care. But the cupboards kinda bare. And signing Mays that contract chaps my ass too.

Guess we will have to see how the rest of the off season pans out. But sooner or later you would think that we would learn that you can't overlook the DT position.

[Jsteve01]

McBean. someone made reference to the fact that McBean played more minutes than any other tackle on the roster and did a good job generating pressure. Im just saying don't count on him for the first 6 games of the year.

[DenBronx]

Hey Bunkley boy go root for the Saints. Clearly you are just a Bunkley fanboi.

And clearly you're a troll.....so suck it.

[Cugel]

I don't know why anybody was down on Bunkley. He certainly was a draft bust for the Eagles, but that was only because he was a top 10 pick and they expected him to be able to rush the passer.

Denver hasn't had a DT who could generate ANY significant interior pass-rush since Trevor Pryce played the position back in 2001. So, if you want to knock Bunkley for not being a great pass-rusher answer this: who has Denver got or will ever get who will be any better?

DTs who are projected to be elite pass-rushers normally go in the top 10 or even top 5 like Marcel Dareus did last year. The ones who don't like Nick Fairley who fell to the Lions at #13 have character concerns or injury concerns. (Still taken in the top 15 picks though). Five of the 32 teams drafted a DT in the first round.

If you want a DT with pass-rush skills you HAVE to "reach" because all the other teams are reaching and "overpay" in FA because all the other teams are "overpaying." Next to QB elite pass-rushing DT is one of the hardest players to find. Lots of times a team drafts a player like Bunkley in the first round, only to watch them turn out to be great at stuffing the run, but can't rush the passer to save their lives.

If you could do without DTs then it would be different. But, it's like needing a kidney operation. You can't just say "it costs too much $! I'll just go without a functioning kidney!" :coffee:

[Cugel]

McBean. someone made reference to the fact that McBean played more minutes than any other tackle on the roster and did a good job generating pressure. Im just saying don't count on him for the first 6 games of the year.

McBean is suing the NFL so he's quite likely to be able to play -- until his lawsuit is decided; which could take quite a while. But, he's a scrub. You can find players like Ryan McBean cut from other rosters this summer. Guys who can fill in and not be horrible, but aren't great talents.

[BroncoNut]

Totally WRONG! :coffee:

Q: What's the best way to defend against Peyton Manning?

A: Keep him on the sideline.

Q: How do you keep him off the field?

A: Run the ball effectively to eat up the clock and limit the number of series he gets.

Q: What would prevent that strategy from working?

A: A stout run defense, that's what!

Q: What do you need to have a stout run defense?

A: 3 or 4 really good DTs! :tsk:

I hate BDB, but in his defense, I think he was being sarcastic

[Cugel]

I hate BDB, but in his defense, I think he was being sarcastic

It looks like the Broncos plan is to try and re-sign Thomas, get Ty Warren healthy and sign Amobi Akoye or another FA. They're looking to get a DT right now, because they have ZERO starting DTs currently secured for next season.

IF (and it's a big IF) they manage to sign a FA DT, re-sign Thomas, AND Ty Warren is healthy and returned to the form he had in 2009, THEN the Broncos would be set a DT.

That's asking rather a lot. And even if everything pans out, all it would take is ONE injury to any of these guys and you're right back to starting McBean or Vickerson!

And that's just not acceptable. They desperately need to draft a DT, but that's been the desperate need for over a decade and they've never done it.

I fully expect to hear another year of excuses after the draft: "we weren't that high on the DTs who were available and didn't want to reach." Well TOUGH!

YOU put yourselves in this position by never drafting and developing DTs in years past, so now the situation is desperate. So, they damn well do need to "reach" and hope like hell that the guy they take pans out so they can get some stability at this position, and not be replacing their DT starters every single year.

And not having to desperately search in FA for bargains who don't suck every year. :coffee:

[dogfish]

cug, promise me you won't jump when we take a DB and three offensive guys with our first four picks. . .

[Cugel]

cug, promise me you won't jump when we take a DB and three offensive guys with our first four picks. . .

No, I'm used to it by now. :coffee:

I fully expect them to ignore DT in the draft. Why not? They always have before. After last year when everybody and his brother predicted they would draft Marcel Dareus, I figure they will NEVER draft a DT in either the first or second round. The last time they did was 2001 -- Paul Toviesi 2nd round. And he never played a down.

[bcbronc]

And that's just not acceptable. They desperately need to draft a DT, but that's been the desperate need for over a decade and they've never done it. I fully expect to hear another year of excuses after the draft: "we weren't that high on the DTs who were available and didn't want to reach." Well TOUGH! YOU put yourselves in this position by never drafting and developing DTs in years past, so now the situation is desperate. So, they damn well do need to "reach" and hope like hell that the guy they take pans out so they can get some stability at this position, and not be replacing their DT starters every single year. And not having to desperately search in FA for bargains who don't suck every year. :coffee:

I don't think you can blame EFX for the decisions of McDaniel's or Shanny. :lol:

Give this regime their due. They didn't draft a DT in year 1, but they did trade a pick to acquire arguably the best DT we've had in a decade. Unfortunately they couldn't re-sign BB (put even then, can't go throwing your cap structure all out of whack--you have to have a blueprint and stick to it) but we've already used a pick this year on DT and the draft isn't even here yet. When you consider the high bust rate with DTs, trading mid round picks for guys with 3-4 years of tape vs professionals is a pretty smart, albeit conservative, strategy. Given Fox and JDR's resumes, I'm not worried about our defensive tackles for maybe the first time in my life.

[Cugel]

I don't think you can blame EFX for the decisions of McDaniel's or Shanny. :lol:

Give this regime their due. They didn't draft a DT in year 1, but they did trade a pick to acquire arguably the best DT we've had in a decade. Unfortunately they couldn't re-sign BB (put even then, can't go throwing your cap structure all out of whack--you have to have a blueprint and stick to it) but we've already used a pick this year on DT and the draft isn't even here yet. When you consider the high bust rate with DTs, trading mid round picks for guys with 3-4 years of tape vs professionals is a pretty smart, albeit conservative, strategy. Given Fox and JDR's resumes, I'm not worried about our defensive tackles for maybe the first time in my life.

The failure goes back a long ways. Plus, EFX gave Joe Mays a $4 million a year contract, and he basically sucks. I'd far rather see them pay Bunkley and get a decent replacement for Mays at MLB. That shouldn't be hard to do.

Look -- there are only two approaches to this:

1. Draft a DT, groom him for 3 years, insert him as a starter and keep him around until he's too old like the Patriots did with Ty Warren.

2. Pay big $ for FA DTs.

The problem is that Denver doesn't want to do EITHER of these two things and keeps trying to scrape the bottom of the bargain bin. Well, that's not a good strategy because it doesn't usually work.

Earlier in this thread I listed the horrible DTs they've brought in here over the last 7 years. I won't repeat that garbage.

But, it's obvious that even the success level of Bunkley was unique. If they sign Okoye for instance there's no assurance he'll be any good. Getting a really GOOD DT in FA is almost impossible.

For instance, the Redskins offered $100 million to Albert Haynesworth based on the fact that he was probably the best DT in football. But after getting all that money he decided to take a permanent siesta and hasn't done anything since!

Really the ONLY good way to get an elite DT is to draft one. Trying to find one in FA is just like trying to find an elite starting LT in FA. Either it doesn't happen at all, or you'd have to pay a mint for the guy.

[Canmore]

The failure goes back a long ways. Plus, EFX gave Joe Mays a $4 million a year contract, and he basically sucks. I'd far rather see them pay Bunkley and get a decent replacement for Mays at MLB. That shouldn't be hard to do.

Look -- there are only two approaches to this:

1. Draft a DT, groom him for 3 years, insert him as a starter and keep him around until he's too old like the Patriots did with Ty Warren.

2. Pay big $ for FA DTs.

The problem is that Denver doesn't want to do EITHER of these two things and keeps trying to scrape the bottom of the bargain bin. Well, that's not a good strategy because it doesn't usually work.

Earlier in this thread I listed the horrible DTs they've brought in here over the last 7 years. I won't repeat that garbage.

But, it's obvious that even the success level of Bunkley was unique. If they sign Okoye for instance there's no assurance he'll be any good. Getting a really GOOD DT in FA is almost impossible.

For instance, the Redskins offered $100 million to Albert Haynesworth based on the fact that he was probably the best DT in football. But after getting all that money he decided to take a permanent siesta and hasn't done anything since!

Really the ONLY good way to get an elite DT is to draft one. Trying to find one in FA is just like trying to find an elite starting LT in FA. Either it doesn't happen at all, or you'd have to pay a mint for the guy.

Where we are drafting, what is the chance of getting an elite defensive tackle?

[Cugel]

Where we are drafting, what is the chance of getting an elite defensive tackle?

Probably not all that great, admittedly, which is why I still think they should have drafted Dareus last year. True, Miller was rookie of the year. But Dareus had a great year as a rookie with 6 sacks, and shows huge promise. And he fills a much bigger need for Denver than LB. .

But, they ought to be able to get somebody in the draft who can at least be good if not exactly a top 10 DT. I don't expect them to do it of course. I expect they will draft a G or S, or CB, or LB or RT or anything BUT a DT. They just don't draft DTs in the first round. Ever.