One major concern to think about....

[Ravage!!!]

is how our receivers are going to do when a spiral actually comes their way?? Are they going to ask Peyton to throw it down and away so that they feel a little more at home?

[chazoe60]

....……………

[rjent]

:rolleyes:

[vandammage13]

I'll tell you this much...Decker and DT better not drop the ball like they did with Teebs.

Manning will have little tolerance for it, and I doubt he'll be telling DT after a drop that its OK and he'll catch the game winner.

Manning demands perfection.

[SR]

I'll tell you this much...Decker and DT better not drop the ball like they did with Teebs.

Manning will have little tolerance for it, and I doubt he'll be telling DT after a drop that its OK and he'll catch the game winner.

Manning demands perfection.

I don't think DT or Decker will have problems with a well placed, tightly spiraled pass thrown where it should be thrown. It's the ducks and end over end passes at their feet or behind them that they had problems with.

[chazoe60]

I don't think DT or Decker will have problems with a well placed, tightly spiraled pass thrown where it should be thrown. It's the ducks and end over end passes at their feet or behind them that they had problems with.

The only thing I'll disagree with you on is that Manning for all his greatness does not always throw a tight spiral. It's the one thing I always thought was funny. People complain about Tebow's "ducks" yet one of the greatest QBs in history throws "ducks" all the time. Tight spiral is overrated, as long as it gets where it needs to be when it needs to be there(yes I know Tebow struggled in that area).

[camdisco24]

This is unnecessary and childish.

Tebow served this team well. Let him leave with a little respect. It's time to drop the kiddie BS and come together as a fan base.

[tomjonesrocks]

I would worry more about the O-line adapting to a statue, quick-release or no quick-release...

[vandammage13]

I don't think DT or Decker will have problems with a well placed, tightly spiraled pass thrown where it should be thrown. It's the ducks and end over end passes at their feet or behind them that they had problems with.

There were certainly plenty of those bad throws and Manning obviously throws one of the most catchable balls ever (at least as far as placement, not necessarily spiral)...

Having said that, there were plenty of passes that were decent throws that hit them right in the hands that were simply dropped.

If you are an NFL reciever, you should be able to catch just about anything you can get both hands on.

Considering how infrequently we threw the ball, our % of dropped passes had to be near the bottom of the league.

[Ravage!!!]

I'll tell you this much...Decker and DT better not drop the ball like they did with Teebs.

Manning will have little tolerance for it, and I doubt he'll be telling DT after a drop that its OK and he'll catch the game winner.

Manning demands perfection.

Decker was having a great year catching teh ball when Orton was throwing. Manning has made every wide receiver he's played with, better. I've never heard players complain on how Manning treats his receivers, I'll tell you that much.

[vandammage13]

Decker was having a great year catching teh ball when Orton was throwing. Manning has made every wide receiver he's played with, better. I've never heard players complain on how Manning treats his receivers, I'll tell you that much.

I'm not saying Manning would treat them unfairly or unprofessionally, but he won't stand for them dropping passes for sure.

[ShooterJM]

is how our receivers are going to do when a spiral actually comes their way?? Are they going to ask Peyton to throw it down and away so that they feel a little more at home?

If you can get to the airport at the right time you might be able to actually kick him on the way out of town

[Ravage!!!]

I'm not saying Manning would treat them unfairly or unprofessionally, but he won't stand for them dropping passes for sure.

ok. I'm sure he'll throw a fit. I don't have a worry about that though, I feel they were catching the ball pretty damned well. I don't have a problem with the WR's hands one bit. Its tough to catch poorly placed passes, and the 'drops' stat is one based off the judgement/opinion of someone, anyway.

[wayninja]

Classy thread.

[turftoad]

:heh:

[vandammage13]

ok. I'm sure he'll throw a fit. I don't have a worry about that though, I feel they were catching the ball pretty damned well. I don't have a problem with the WR's hands one bit. Its tough to catch poorly placed passes, and the 'drops' stat is one based off the judgement/opinion of someone, anyway.

I'm with you that there were some tough passes, but I just believe if you are an NFL receiver you should catch the ball if it hits you in the hands (obviously there are acceptable circumstances such as a hard hit that dislodges the ball).

I mean, when I played high school way back when, we had this kid that caught everything that came his way...he wasn't fast or tall, but if he could get his hands on it, he was coming down with it....If a high schooler can catch balls from a HS QB that throws worse than Tebow, then I have no tolerance for NFL recievers dropping passes, period.

[Slick]

Boooooo!!!! Get off the stage

[jhildebrand]

Let's see if Manning can get the ball off. When we ran the 'traditional offense' with Orton there were PLENTY of times he couldn't even get to his third step in a three step drop before having a DL on top of him.

[jhildebrand]

Hey Rav, so what do you think of RGIII and Luck getting drafted simply because of their name? Should they start immediately for their franchise? Maybe the redskin WR's can ask RGIII to throw like Grossman.

Please educate.

TIA

[Ravage!!!]

Hey Rav, so what do you think of RGIII and Luck getting drafted simply because of their name? Should they start immediately for their franchise? Maybe the redskin WR's can ask RGIII to throw like Grossman.

Please educate.

TIA

Hey jhil, just because ou don't understand something, don't blame others. :lol: :lol: At least Luck and RGIII showed they can pass the ball and are being drafted to the NFL because of it. Anytime you need something answered, you just give me a ring...


TIA :coffee:

[Krugan]

And people call Tebow fans spammers....

[catfish]

There were certainly plenty of those bad throws and Manning obviously throws one of the most catchable balls ever (at least as far as placement, not necessarily spiral)...

Having said that, there were plenty of passes that were decent throws that hit them right in the hands that were simply dropped.

If you are an NFL reciever, you should be able to catch just about anything you can get both hands on.

Considering how infrequently we threw the ball, our % of dropped passes had to be near the bottom of the league.

5th highest % overall

[silkamilkamonico]

One major concern to think about....

1 - Our WR's are actually going to have to learn how to read a defense.

2 - Eric Decker is actually going to have to catch the ball period, assuming he even continues with the Broncos.

[Northman]

Im sure Manning will come into the lockerroom with some step ladders in hand to make them feel at ease.

[weazel]

Fox will have to step in and ask Peyton if he could throw the ball a little more "ducklike"

[silkamilkamonico]

Fox better not say a dam word to Peyton and the offense.

Just worry about figuring out the defense already.

[achjad]

The only thing I'll disagree with you on is that Manning for all his greatness does not always throw a tight spiral. It's the one thing I always thought was funny. People complain about Tebow's "ducks" yet one of the greatest QBs in history throws "ducks" all the time. Tight spiral is overrated, as long as it gets where it needs to be when it needs to be there(yes I know Tebow struggled in that area).

true..very surprising, manning does not always throw a tight spiral... calling them "ducks" are a reach (hes had a couple of those 2008 when he had a rough start) but yeah its actually really funny when you look at close up footage

[jhildebrand]

Hey jhil, just because ou don't understand something, don't blame others. :lol: :lol: At least Luck and RGIII showed they can pass the ball and are being drafted to the NFL because of it. Anytime you need something answered, you just give me a ring...


TIA :coffee:

I see you found your old high horse and are back in the saddle Rav.

Riddle me this what more have RGIII and Luck done in College that Tebow didn't?

You tell me it is because they showed they can pass the ball. I guess Tebow miracled his way to a 66.4% passing percentage? Maybe he miracled his way to a better collegiate passer rating than Luck and RGIII? Maybe he miracled his way to more PASSING TDs than both of them? Or why he had LESS INT's than both of them? :rolleyes: It can't be about passing as you surmise because all their passing numbers, at least the major ones I cited, are all INFERIOR to Tebow's.

Please, oh lofty one, answer for me why his name is some how different-as you suggested. Please also answer why Luck isn't being drafted because of his name or RGIII for that matter.

I'll wait for an answer.

TIA

[broncobryce]

Taking a shot at Tebow on his way out the door? I expected more from you......actually I didn't. Morons are morons.

[broncobryce]

This is unnecessary and childish.

Tebow served this team well. Let him leave with a little respect. It's time to drop the kiddie BS and come together as a fan base.

Come together? We aren't the Beatles. I wouldn't put out a fire on a lot of these clowns.

[I Eat Staples]

"Riddle me this what more have RGIII and Luck done in College that Tebow didn't?"

Just compare film of them to film of Tebow.

If you really can't see the differences, then just trust the many people who get payed good money to do just that. And I'm talking about actual scouts, not ESPN "experts."

[Ravage!!!]

I see you found your old high horse and are back in the saddle Rav.

Riddle me this what more have RGIII and Luck done in College that Tebow didn't?

You tell me it is because they showed they can pass the ball. I guess Tebow miracled his way to a 66.4% passing percentage? Maybe he miracled his way to a better collegiate passer rating than Luck and RGIII? Maybe he miracled his way to more PASSING TDs than both of them? Or why he had LESS INT's than both of them? :rolleyes: It can't be about passing as you surmise because all their passing numbers, at least the major ones I cited, are all INFERIOR to Tebow's.

Please, oh lofty one, answer for me why his name is some how different-as you suggested. Please also answer why Luck isn't being drafted because of his name or RGIII for that matter.

I'll wait for an answer.

TIA

DOn't try to lecture me on getting on some high horse when you have been crying like a baby about conspiracies and being unfair to your Tebow. Its like a record with you since he's been on the team. Round and around and around. Now you want to point fingers and throw out insults.

If you didn't notice, the NFL scouts didn't exactly have Tebow as a good passer coming out of college. This is the difference between them and those like you that purely want to look at the stats and th ink the number sheets tell the story. Tim was NOT a good passer in college. He proved that the scouts were 100% correct by the way he's thrown the ball while in the NFL.

RGIII and Luck have proved to be GOOD passers, and thats not something that has to be proved by looking at some QBR or stat sheet to see. I'm SORRY that you don't understand this. I'm SORRY that you can't understand when people say that Tebow ONLY made the team because of his name and NOT because of the way he proved to play QB when trying to earn a spot. But those that have been in the league MANY years, and won Super Bowls, and played with GOOD QBs..... stated that Tebow looked SOOOO bad throwing, that if his name wasn't Tim Tebow (and had the gigantic following and press backing)...he wouldn't have made the team. Try this. If Tim had a bag over his head, and no one could see that it was the "chosen one" playing QB while looking so bad, he would have been cut. Does that make it easier for you to understand?

Luck isn't being drafted because of his name. Luck is being drafted because those that rate/scout QB have given him such a HIGH rating for PLAYING QB (not for being such a great guy off the field), that he's EARNED a title of being the best QB prospect in the last 20 years. Tebow was a GREAT college player, but scouts rated him as a 2nd round to 3rd round QB prospect DESPITE his "passing stats and better numbers." Go figure.

NUMBERS don't mean SQUAT when rating/scouting a player. Sorry to tell you that, but its a fact. Luck could put a bag over his head and play the QB position well enough that people would want to draft him because of his QB skills... not because his good-natured personality or rabid mesiah-searching, fans.

Now, before you go crying about how the Broncos did everything they could to hurt your Tebow and to screw him over...try to calm yourself down and make some sense that doesn't require people to start folding you some tin-foil hats that match Bullgator's....TIA

[topscribe]

Let's see if Manning can get the ball off. When we ran the 'traditional offense' with Orton there were PLENTY of times he couldn't even get to his third step in a three step drop before having a DL on top of him.

Yet Orton averaged 306 yards/game during the 11 games he was healthy in 2010. If Orton could do that, then what do you think Peyton can do?

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't mind people taking shots at players as they leave the door.

I took plenty of shots at the crying, pampered, entitled, pouty, backboneless talent in Cutler on his way out.

[Cugel]

There were certainly plenty of those bad throws and Manning obviously throws one of the most catchable balls ever (at least as far as placement, not necessarily spiral)...

Having said that, there were plenty of passes that were decent throws that hit them right in the hands that were simply dropped.

If you are an NFL reciever, you should be able to catch just about anything you can get both hands on.

Considering how infrequently we threw the ball, our % of dropped passes had to be near the bottom of the league.

I'm surprised how quickly fans forget the flat DROPS in many games last season. I'm not a Tebow fan by any means, but his receivers did NOT help him out in many games. A few clutch catches in late games don't make up for TONS of just flat drops where he hit them in the hands and the ball just bounced off like they were made of stone.

Yes, Tebow was wildly inaccurate at times, but sometimes he threw a perfectly accurate pass . . . and they just dropped it.

The only thing I can think is that the WRs were taken by surprise when the ball hit them on the hands and weren't prepared. That's no excuse at all though. You're a professional. Look the ball into your hands and make the catch; THEN run with it. How hard could it be to remember that much? :coffee:

[Cugel]

Yet Orton averaged 306 yards/game during the 11 games he was healthy in 2010. If Orton could do that, then what do you think Peyton can do?

If the WRs can avoid dropping the ball, he can routinely break 400 yards passing a game, just as he usually does.

[TimHippo]

is how our receivers are going to do when a spiral actually comes their way?? Are they going to ask Peyton to throw it down and away so that they feel a little more at home?

Well they can't seem to catch (alot of drops). Peyton got rid of all the receivers who had bad hands in Indy and then went out and drafted sure handed receivers like Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon who he could develop. Manning's not going to tolerate guys with bad hands. And that's something that can't be changed once you get to the pros. I expect some guys to get shipped out by Manning, and then Manning bringing in his kind of receiver (through the draft or FA).

[Ravage!!!]

Every team has drops. I never take drops as an excuse for a QB. Its REACHING for excuses. The WRs weren't "dropping" the ball when better passers were throwing it.

[TimHippo]

Every team has drops. I never take drops as an excuse for a QB. Its REACHING for excuses. The WRs weren't "dropping" the ball when better passers were throwing it.

Not true. There are stats for receivers on dropped ball in the NCAAs. Buddy Ryan would use that as a huge measurable to draft sure handed guys like Chris Carter, Rob Moore. That's not something that can be improved much once you get to the pros.

I expect Manning to drop Willis and maybe Decker and bring some new guys in.

[vandammage13]

Every team has drops. I never take drops as an excuse for a QB. Its REACHING for excuses. The WRs weren't "dropping" the ball when better passers were throwing it.

When the "better" passer was throwing the ball he targeted Brandon Lloyd the overwhelming majority of the time, and he's a pretty sure handed WR.

The other WR's didn't have much of a chance to succeed or fail...you figure in 2010 it was mainly Lloyd/Gaffney/Royal...Decker didn't play much at all and DT was out most of the year due to injury.

In 2011 Decker had 4-1/2 games pre-Tebow to succeed or fail, and DT was still injured...This while the previous QB was still overtargeting Lloyd...

So there's not much data to compare how the top targets with Tebow did with the prior QB...

[topscribe]

Not true. There are stats for receivers on dropped ball in the NCAAs. Buddy Ryan would use that as a huge measurable to draft sure handed guys like Chris Carter, Rob Moore. That's not something that can be improved much once you get to the pros.

I expect Manning to drop Willis and maybe Decker and bring some new guys in.
Decker came into the pros with the reputation of sure-handedness.

As Shannon Sharpe put it, it's a lot easier to catch the ball when you know where it's going . . .

[vandammage13]

Decker came into the pros with the reputation of sure-handedness.

As Shannon Sharpe put it, it's a lot easier to catch the ball when you know where it's going . . .

That's like saying its a lot easier to throw a ball when your reciever is open...Make a play man, you're a professional.

[Ravage!!!]

That's like saying its a lot easier to throw a ball when your reciever is open...Make a play man, you're a professional.

Its weird that he got open with other QBs and not with Tebow, though.

[vandammage13]

Its weird that he got open with other QBs and not with Tebow, though.

Refer to post #40

[topscribe]

Its weird that he got open with other QBs and not with Tebow, though.
I think more than his getting open, other QBs were more able to pass into tight windows, as an NFL quality QB needs to be able to do. As Brandon Lloyd said, if a receiver has a half step on the defender in the pros, he's wide open. This may be a big reason some QBs who just killed it in college fell by the wayside in the pros. A QB just has to have the velocity, accuracy, and anticipation to pass into those small windows.

The fact is, going back to dropped balls, much of that is on the QB, as you alluded, Rav. Sharpe saw it: With Tebow, the receiver was not alway sure where the ball would be when it got to him. He pointed out that QBs such as Manning and Brady -- and he mentioned Elway -- would put the ball precisely where the receiver expected it. Moreover, other pundits have pointed out that many of Tebow's passes were not good spirals, and that he threw a "heavy" ball that was not as catchable.

There has to be a reason why a receiver such as Decker, with his reputation of catching everything within reach, was suddenly dropping balls. Not that he didn't occasionally drop on on his own, but there has to be more to it than that, IMO . . .