Starters at DE?

[Traveler]

Forgoing any trades, who are your starters for Denver at DE?

Mine would be Marcus Thomas & Carlton Powell. Both of their games are more suited to 3-4 DE's IMO. Thomas is more of a penetrating type while Powell can hold POA better.

[topscribe]

Forgoing any trades, who are your starters for Denver at DE?

Mine would be Marcus Thomas & Carlton Powell. Both of their games are more suited to 3-4 DE's IMO. Thomas is more of a penetrating type while Powell can hold POA better.

I don't view that as entirely unreasonable. I look for Thomas to break out this
season, and Powell just may break out from the moment he steps onto the
field.

. . . Or is that just hope against hope? :confused:

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[muse]

Powell could well turn out to be one of the surprises of the offseason. As far as things go for Thomas, it's an interesting one. He fits best as an Undertackle in a 4-3 IMO in a 1-gap role. We've never used him like that - I didn't see him sent in to penetrate the OLs at all last year (which is what the scouts said was his forte). It depends on the scheme we run really. It'll be interesting to see where and how he ends up...

[getlynched47]

Powell has never played Defensive End in a 3-4

Marcus Thomas has never played Defensive End in a 3-4, and according to the DP will get a shot to compete at Nose Tackle

Kenny Peterson is the only viable option at Defensive End in the 3-4 as of right now because he's played in it. But he's 30 years old.

We need Tyson Jackson (best run stuffing DE in the draft) or Jarron Gilbert (phenomenal athlete for his size)

[Traveler]

Powell could well turn out to be one of the surprises of the offseason. As far as things go for Thomas, it's an interesting one. He fits best as an Undertackle in a 4-3 IMO in a 1-gap role. We've never used him like that - I didn't see him sent in to penetrate the OLs at all last year (which is what the scouts said was his forte). It depends on the scheme we run really. It'll be interesting to see where and how he ends up...

Blame that on the former HC & DC.

[topscribe]

Powell has never played Defensive End in a 3-4

Marcus Thomas has never played Defensive End in a 3-4, and according to the DP will get a shot to compete at Nose Tackle

Kenny Peterson is the only viable option at Defensive End in the 3-4 as of right now because he's played in it. But he's 30 years old.

We need Tyson Jackson (best run stuffing DE in the draft) or Jarron Gilbert (phenomenal athlete for his size)

I wouldn't say those players are not viable options just because they've never
played there. No player has ever played at a position before he ever played
there.

One thing Thomas has going for him is his superior athletic abilities. Because
of the added spacial responsibilities, he may be better at DE in a 3-4 than he
is at DT.

I wouldn't look anywhere else on defense until I have found a good NT, unless
Maualuga is available, IMO.

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[broncofaninfla]

First let me say good thread. :beer:
Right now with who we have I'd have to go Peterson and Crowder starting DE's, with possibly Darrel Ried and Marcus Thomas backing up. I know Crowder hasn't done much to date but with what we currently have I have to consider him. McBean has some good size but I honetsly don't know anything about him. I just reverted to the current roster and with what we have it's almost certain we go DE early.

[getlynched47]

I wouldn't say those players are not viable options just because they've never
played there. No player has ever played at a position before he ever played
there.

One thing Thomas has going for him is his superior athletic abilities. Because
of the added spacial responsibilities, he may be better at DE in a 3-4 than he
is at DT.

I wouldn't look anywhere else on defense until I have found a good NT, unless
Maualuga is available, IMO.

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We need a Nose Tackle badly. Those who believe Ron Fields is the solution to that problem are kidding himself. I'm not convinced that he'd be a dominant Nose Tackle. He's a great rotation man, but that's about it.

I didn't say that they couldn't play DE in a 3-4, but that is in question.

Marcus Thomas needs to slim down if he's going to play DE in a 3-4, because he needs to be able to keep contain on a Quarterback,something you rarely do from the Defensive Tackle position.

And ideal weight for a 3-4 defensive end is between 280-300 lbs, and they can't be slow as dirt either because they need to keep contain, so I'd say 4.7-5.1 in the 40-yard dash. Lastly, they need to be strong, and Thomas has no problem with that.

He could play 3-4 in the defensive end, but there's a lot of work to do before that happens.

[getlynched47]

First let me say good thread. :beer:
Right now with who we have I'd have to go Peterson and Crowder starting DE's, with possibly Darrel Ried and Marcus Thomas backing up. I know Crowder hasn't done much to date but with what we currently have I have to consider him. McBean has some good size but I honetsly don't know anything about him. I just reverted to the current roster and with what we have it's almost certain we go DE early.

:lol: Tim Crowder will either be traded, released, or game-day inactive because he isn't versatile. He's a 4-3 defensive end and that's it. He's too big and slow to be a linebacker in a 3-4, but he's too undersized to play on the D-line in a 3-4.

[G_Money]

I agree on Kenny Peterson. He's probably first on my depth chart right now. I still have Thomas at DE - I think it suits him better than NT, but we might need him inside.

And while I liked the selection of Powell, I can't call a guy who played inside in college and has never played in a pro game my starting end right now. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do, but he's not my starter on my first depth chart.

My depth chart would probably go:

DE - Thomas / backup Clemons
NT - Fields / backup Parker
DE - Peterson / backup Powell

But we're gonna find out if we need Thomas in the middle instead, if Powell can get a good push after his blown ankle, etc.

If Thomas goes to end, we need another NT. If Thomas goes inside, we need another end. But most drafted DL are not useful their first 1-2 seasons. So don't expect Jackson or Brace to tear it up for us next season. It just isn't a normal thing. They should be backups.

Which means our starting DL is already on this team.

~G

[getlynched47]

I agree on Kenny Peterson. He's probably first on my depth chart right now. I still have Thomas at DE - I think it suits him better than NT, but we might need him inside.

And while I liked the selection of Powell, I can't call a guy who played inside in college and has never played in a pro game my starting end right now. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do, but he's not my starter on my first depth chart.

My depth chart would probably go:

DE - Thomas / backup Clemons
NT - Fields / backup Parker
DE - Peterson / backup Powell

But we're gonna find out if we need Thomas in the middle instead, if Powell can get a good push after his blown ankle, etc.

If Thomas goes to end, we need another NT. If Thomas goes inside, we need another end. But most drafted DL are not useful their first 1-2 seasons. So don't expect Jackson or Brace to tear it up for us next season. It just isn't a normal thing. They should be backups.
Which means our starting DL is already on this team.

~G

I agree with everything except the red part. If Ron Brace and Tyson Jackson come to Denver (entirely possible), the coaches aren't looking for them to produce stats. As long as they do their part, keep the Linebackers jersey's clean, and stop the run they should be fine. Tyson Jackson is the best run-stopping Defensive End in this entire draft. Ron Brace is one of the top Nose Tackles in this entire draft.

I could see Tyson Jackson being a starter immediately.

I think there's more of a bust-factor with Defensive Ends/Tackles that need to produce sacks (pass rushing specialists). The d-line in a 3-4 do not rack up stats, but that doesn't mean that they're not playing well.

[BroncoNut]

what about Dumerville? He'd be fine in a 3-4 scheme, well, maybe not huh?

[turftoad]

I agree on Kenny Peterson. He's probably first on my depth chart right now. I still have Thomas at DE - I think it suits him better than NT, but we might need him inside.

And while I liked the selection of Powell, I can't call a guy who played inside in college and has never played in a pro game my starting end right now. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do, but he's not my starter on my first depth chart.

My depth chart would probably go:

DE - Thomas / backup Clemons
NT - Fields / backup Parker
DE - Peterson / backup Powell

But we're gonna find out if we need Thomas in the middle instead, if Powell can get a good push after his blown ankle, etc.

If Thomas goes to end, we need another NT. If Thomas goes inside, we need another end. But most drafted DL are not useful their first 1-2 seasons. So don't expect Jackson or Brace to tear it up for us next season. It just isn't a normal thing. They should be backups.

Which means our starting DL is already on this team.

~G

Good post again "G".

I like this better than what we got for starting LB's right now. Especially in the middle.

[G_Money]

You don't like Davis, Larsen and DJ in the middle? Davis is really pretty good, and under-rated. We could add Maualuga, but Larsen reads plays better. You could tell when both were in the PAC-10 together. I wish I knew what they were gonna do with DJ. He's at his best on the weakside in a 4-3. I'm not exceedingly fond of him at other positions, while I think MLB in a 3-4 fits Larsen's skills to a tee.

For rush backers though...yeah, I'm definitely curious. We need one of Moss/Dumerville to come through for us.

But if there's one thing Nolan's pretty good at, it's linebackers. And our new LB coach from the Raiders turned their scrubs into highly productive players. I'm not that worried about our LB situation.

For that, I can trust Nolan to either get it right from the start, or to make it right ASAP.

~G

[turftoad]

You don't like Davis, Larsen and DJ in the middle? Davis is really pretty good, and under-rated. We could add Maualuga, but Larsen reads plays better. You could tell when both were in the PAC-10 together. I wish I knew what they were gonna do with DJ. He's at his best on the weakside in a 4-3. I'm not exceedingly fond of him at other positions, while I think MLB in a 3-4 fits Larsen's skills to a tee.

For rush backers though...yeah, I'm definitely curious. We need one of Moss/Dumerville to come through for us.

But if there's one thing Nolan's pretty good at, it's linebackers. And our new LB coach from the Raiders turned their scrubs into highly productive players. I'm not that worried about our LB situation.

For that, I can trust Nolan to either get it right from the start, or to make it right ASAP.

~G

Yep, we need to trust that Nolan can figure it out even if it is kind of a mess right now.

[slim]

You don't like Davis, Larsen and DJ in the middle? Davis is really pretty good, and under-rated. We could add Maualuga, but Larsen reads plays better. You could tell when both were in the PAC-10 together. I wish I knew what they were gonna do with DJ. He's at his best on the weakside in a 4-3. I'm not exceedingly fond of him at other positions, while I think MLB in a 3-4 fits Larsen's skills to a tee.

For rush backers though...yeah, I'm definitely curious. We need one of Moss/Dumerville to come through for us.

But if there's one thing Nolan's pretty good at, it's linebackers. And our new LB coach from the Raiders turned their scrubs into highly productive players. I'm not that worried about our LB situation.

For that, I can trust Nolan to either get it right from the start, or to make it right ASAP.

~G



Larsen is going to own at ILB this year. I am really looking forward to watching him.

As far as DE goes, I would say Peterson and Clemons will be the starters, unless they draft Jackson.

[CoachChaz]

If Larsen can do it regularly, then I'd be fine with drafting Jackson and Sintim in the first. I'm good with Davis as a starter, but the jury is out on Larsen and DJ

[dogfish]

thomas and peterson. . . .

[topscribe]

If Larsen can do it regularly, then I'd be fine with drafting Jackson and Sintim in the first. I'm good with Davis as a starter, but the jury is out on Larsen and DJ

You like Davis better than DJ? :confused:

Davis is a pedestrian LBer, Coach. If he starts, it will be only because the
Broncos don't have starting material there. Davis should be a backup, IMO.

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[CoachChaz]

You like Davis better than DJ? :confused:

Davis is a pedestrian LBer, Coach. If he starts, it will be only because the
Broncos don't have starting material there. Davis should be a backup, IMO.

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I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised with Davis. D'Qwell Jackson had a huge year, but Davis helped with that. Still had 90 tackles and 6 for a loss.

In their best positions, DJ is definitely better, but in a 3-4...DJ's best position no longer exists. I love DJ...but I just dont know how well his skills play in a 3-4.

[getlynched47]

You don't like Davis, Larsen and DJ in the middle? Davis is really pretty good, and under-rated. We could add Maualuga, but Larsen reads plays better. You could tell when both were in the PAC-10 together. I wish I knew what they were gonna do with DJ. He's at his best on the weakside in a 4-3. I'm not exceedingly fond of him at other positions, while I think MLB in a 3-4 fits Larsen's skills to a tee.

For rush backers though...yeah, I'm definitely curious. We need one of Moss/Dumerville to come through for us.

But if there's one thing Nolan's pretty good at, it's linebackers. And our new LB coach from the Raiders turned their scrubs into highly productive players. I'm not that worried about our LB situation.

For that, I can trust Nolan to either get it right from the start, or to make it right ASAP.

~G

I really hope we keep DJ at WOLB. He never really got a chance to showcase his blitzing ability with Coyer, Bates, and Slowick's defensive systems. He's such a rare blend of speed and power that he'd be a great player in either 4 of the Linebacker positions in a 3-4.

Larsen is a perfect 3-4 Inner Linebacker, I could see him paired with Andra Davis in the middle. That gives us a threatening run-stopping presence up front.

Of course, that really doesn't matter until we get a legitimate Nose Tackle and 3-4 defensive end opposite Kenny Peterson.
Yeah our new linebacker coach is responsible in making Thomas Howard and Kirk Morrison the great linebackers they are today.

[topscribe]

I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised with Davis. D'Qwell Jackson had a huge year, but Davis helped with that. Still had 90 tackles and 6 for a loss.

In their best positions, DJ is definitely better, but in a 3-4...DJ's best position no longer exists. I love DJ...but I just dont know how well his skills play in a 3-4.

I will be ecstatic if you're right about Davis, Coach. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

Regarding DJ, I just believe he's such a gifted athlete he can play anywhere . . .

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[getlynched47]

I will be ecstatic if you're right about Davis, Coach. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

Regarding DJ, I just believe he's such a gifted athlete he can play anywhere . . .

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true dat.

DJ Williams will have no problem finding his niche in this new system. He can play either 4 linebacker positions, but I hope he gets to stay at WOLB so he can rack up the sacks :werd:

[CoachChaz]

I dont doubt his abilities...I just havent seen them yet at anything other than WILL

[topscribe]

true dat.

DJ Williams will have no problem finding his niche in this new system. He can play either 4 linebacker positions, but I hope he gets to stay at WOLB so he can rack up the sacks :werd:

I do believe DJ is better in space (not that he's bad inside). I also believe that
he was not often heard from with the blitz because they didn't have him blitz
that much. Part of that may be because of his coverage abilities and speed
in the defensive backfield.

I remember when they had Lynch up blitzing and DJ playing back. If the
Champ is fully recovered, and the revamped rest of the backfield can now
cover, they might have the luxury of playing DJ up front once in a while.

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[Superchop 7]

The point about taking awhile to develop is important.

The other thing to consider is that this draft is thin at DL.

I feel that we will be reaching.

By reaching, we will be missing out on some sure-fire prospects.

On the bright side, screwing up the draft will help shorten the tenure of a certain head coach........

Looks like a win-win to me.

[topscribe]

I dont doubt his abilities...I just havent seen them yet at anything other than WILL

:confused: DJ? He's played all three positions in the 4-3.

And did quite well, I believe . . .

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[CoachChaz]

So now we're okay with drafting bad if it means McD gets dumped? Simply amazing.

[CoachChaz]

:confused: DJ? He's played all three positions in the 4-3.

And did quite well, I believe . . .

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Regardless of how many tackles he had playing the middle, his overall play was not very impressive. The stats were nice, but no one was going to confuse him with Lewis or Urlacher, etc. Not even close.

[topscribe]

So now we're okay with drafting bad if it means McD gets dumped? Simply amazing.

I don't think Chop meant he hopes they draft bad. I think he meant if the do
draft bad that this coaching staff hits the hiway. That's how I got it, anyway.

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[tubby]

Regardless of how many tackles he had playing the middle, his overall play was not very impressive. The stats were nice, but no one was going to confuse him with Lewis or Urlacher, etc. Not even close.

That was a nice way to put it.

[CoachChaz]

That was a nice way to put it.

Yeah...I didnt want to totally dog him out for making 100 tackles 10 yards down field, never hitting a hole or blowing up any plays in the backfield. That wouldnt have been nice

[topscribe]

Regardless of how many tackles he had playing the middle, his overall play was not very impressive. The stats were nice, but no one was going to confuse him with Lewis or Urlacher, etc. Not even close.

Good grief, no . . . I agree with you.

But, once again, we are judging him at a position he never before had played.
By the end of the season, he was playing the middle well. No, he wasn't as
good as he was outside, but at least he kept Webster out of the middle. :icon_eek:

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[shank]

Regardless of how many tackles he had playing the middle, his overall play was not very impressive. The stats were nice, but no one was going to confuse him with Lewis or Urlacher, etc. Not even close.

lewis and urlacher didn't make names for themselves after only one season either. no one said he played like the best in the league, but he played well, and could be above average with more experience. he was looking much better at the end of his season at MLB than he did at the beginning, as he started to put it all together.

[shank]

i agree with the others who have thomas and peterson as our current starters, with fields inthe middle.

[tubby]

Yeah...I didnt want to totally dog him out for making 100 tackles 10 yards down field, never hitting a hole or blowing up any plays in the backfield. That wouldnt have been nice

Somewhere HD just twitched.

[dogfish]

Somewhere HD just twitched.

cswil should use less tooth. . . .

[G_Money]

That's the problem with DJ - he's been adequate everywhere but Will, and didn't achieve adequacy at either Sam or Mike til at LEAST half-way through his first year. And he still couldn't read plays before they got to him.

If somebody in a 3-4 converts to a 4-3 I'd love to trade them our now-outmoded weak-sider for their out-moded rush-backer. DJ will play in the 3-4, but I don't believe he'll excel. And that's a problem for us, given his shiny new contract.

But I'm sure we'll get a chance to see it. I still think Davis and Larsen are pegged as my inside backers barring a 1st-rounder like Maualuga being added - and maybe even including that. It may take Rey a bit to adjust.

If we don't add a good rush backer I can see DJ staying outside, but it's not a good fit for him IMO - he doesn't have the experience as a rusher, and he's not good at things he doesn't have lots of reps doing.

We'll see how we fit him in. He may wind up inside and starting by default, so we don't drop his trade value and we give him a chance at success. But Larsen hits harder, tackles at least as well, and fills holes faster, all key things for an ILB in a 3-4.

Should be a fun camp to follow at the position, that's for sure.

~G

[Broncolingus]

Starters at DE?

...ask me after the draft and 6-7 games into the season.

[getlynched47]

That's the problem with DJ - he's been adequate everywhere but Will, and didn't achieve adequacy at either Sam or Mike til at LEAST half-way through his first year. And he still couldn't read plays before they got to him.

If somebody in a 3-4 converts to a 4-3 I'd love to trade them our now-outmoded weak-sider for their out-moded rush-backer. DJ will play in the 3-4, but I don't believe he'll excel. And that's a problem for us, given his shiny new contract.

But I'm sure we'll get a chance to see it. I still think Davis and Larsen are pegged as my inside backers barring a 1st-rounder like Maualuga being added - and maybe even including that. It may take Rey a bit to adjust.

If we don't add a good rush backer I can see DJ staying outside, but it's not a good fit for him IMO - he doesn't have the experience as a rusher, and he's not good at things he doesn't have lots of reps doing.

We'll see how we fit him in. He may wind up inside and starting by default, so we don't drop his trade value and we give him a chance at success. But Larsen hits harder, tackles at least as well, and fills holes faster, all key things for an ILB in a 3-4.

Should be a fun camp to follow at the position, that's for sure.

~G

I don't think that's a fair assessment to DJ Williams. He was having a Pro Bowl calibur season before he popped his MCL vs. Miami. He was the strength of that atrocious linebacking corpse consisting of Nate Webster, Jamie Winborne, and Boss Bailey.

DJ Williams never got a shot to blitz and show off his athletic ability because Coyer and Bates would throw John Lynch down in the box as the blitzer and drop DJ back in coverage since he's a lot faster than John Lynch. Then Slowick pretty much neglected DJ Williams as a rusher with his pitiful defensive scheme.

DJ Williams will continue to be a solid Linebacker for us no matter what linebacker position he plays in the 3-4. He's the definition of versatility.

[turftoad]

Regardless of how many tackles he had playing the middle, his overall play was not very impressive. The stats were nice, but no one was going to confuse him with Lewis or Urlacher, etc. Not even close.

Exactly, he was blocked easy and took the wrong hole on many, many ocassions. I agree with Coach, there is no real exact spot for him in the 3-4.

Also, I don't understand all the hype on Larsen. Sure he's an underdog and all but he hasn't proven anything yet except for the fact that he can hit.

Can he take on blockers and sift through traffic??

We don't know that answer yet. He's still unproven.

[Lonestar]

I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised with Davis. D'Qwell Jackson had a huge year, but Davis helped with that. Still had 90 tackles and 6 for a loss.

In their best positions, DJ is definitely better, but in a 3-4...DJ's best position no longer exists. I love DJ...but I just dont know how well his skills play in a 3-4.3

I know DJ is a great athlete but he plays better in open space as does Woodyard.. As much as I like them I just do not see anywhere for them in 3-4 as LB's..

I still think WW would be a better SS playing near the LOS.. But then I'm not so sure that is needed in the 3-4..

[getlynched47]

Exactly, he was blocked easy and took the wrong hole on many, many ocassions. I agree with Coach, there is no real exact spot for him in the 3-4.

Also, I don't understand all the hype on Larsen. Sure he's an underdog and all but he hasn't proven anything yet except for the fact that he can hit.

Can he take on blockers and sift through traffic??

We don't know that answer yet. He's still unproven.

DJ Williams blocked easily? I really have to disagree about this one. DJ Williams was easily our best linebacker before his injury. And he was having a Pro-Bowl worthy season before tearing his MCL vs. Miami.

It's not his fault that Jamie Winborn, Boss Bailey, and Nate Webster weren't filling their gaps consistantly. Trust me, it had to do more with those three not doing their job than DJ Williams "getting blocked easily" and "taking the wrong holes".

DJ Williams is top 10 at WLB. He has the athletic ability of a Wesley Woodyard, but the strength and power of a Patrick Willis. He's a rare linebacker and because he has such immense talent, he can fit in either 4 linebacker spots in the 3-4. I guarantee it.

Larsen was solid when he was in. He's not flashy, but he's a hard nose football player who fills his gap and makes the tackle. His speed is irrelevant when playing as an Inner Linebacker in a 3-4. You don't have to be a speed demon to be a successful Inner Linebacker, all you have to be able to do is fill your gap, stop the run, and make the tackle. Larsen can do that.

Every thing you need know know about Larsen is shown in the game vs. Atlanta.

[Lonestar]

I don't think that's a fair assessment to DJ Williams. He was having a Pro Bowl calibur season before he popped his MCL vs. Miami. He was the strength of that atrocious linebacking corpse consisting of Nate Webster, Jamie Winborne, and Boss Bailey.

DJ Williams never got a shot to blitz and show off his athletic ability because Coyer and Bates would throw John Lynch down in the box as the blitzer and drop DJ back in coverage since he's a lot faster than John Lynch. Then Slowick pretty much neglected DJ Williams as a rusher with his pitiful defensive scheme.

DJ Williams will continue to be a solid Linebacker for us no matter what linebacker position he plays in the 3-4. He's the definition of versatility.

he may have been faster but John had the timing down and that is the key to blitzing hitting the hole when they least expect you..

I do not see DJ surving the switch to 3-4.. I hope they can get something of value for him..

[Broncolingus]

he may have been faster but John had the timing down and that is the key to blitzing hitting the hole when they least expect you..

I do not see DJ surving the switch to 3-4.. I hope they can get something of value for him..

I'm thinking the same thing, brother...

Would like to keep him, just not sure where he's going to fit into the 3-4.

Hopefully, he'll show something and find a spot for him...

[getlynched47]

he may have been faster but John had the timing down and that is the key to blitzing hitting the hole when they least expect you..

I do not see DJ surving the switch to 3-4.. I hope they can get something of value for him..

DJ Williams will not be traded. I guarantee you JR :salute:

[G_Money]

I don't think that's a fair assessment to DJ Williams. He was having a Pro Bowl calibur season before he popped his MCL vs. Miami. He was the strength of that atrocious linebacking corpse consisting of Nate Webster, Jamie Winborne, and Boss Bailey.

DJ Williams never got a shot to blitz and show off his athletic ability because Coyer and Bates would throw John Lynch down in the box as the blitzer and drop DJ back in coverage since he's a lot faster than John Lynch. Then Slowick pretty much neglected DJ Williams as a rusher with his pitiful defensive scheme.

DJ Williams will continue to be a solid Linebacker for us no matter what linebacker position he plays in the 3-4. He's the definition of versatility.

In case my meaning was not clear, I think he's an excellent weak-side backer. But I think that's his only position of excellence, and not a position that will really exist any more if we go to majority 3-4. At the rest, he tops out at competence, if that. If we switch between that and a 4-3 this coming year, then DJ will still have a position of excellence to fit at least part of time time, and is one reason I'm considering him more as a part-time rush/part-time Will for the coming season.

He's never been a guy to blow up plays or stuff holes, though, unless it was 3rd and 1 and he knew EXACTLY where to be. He doesn't read plays well. If you give him options, it slows him down. Another reason I think he might survive as a rush backer even though he's not the prototypical type for it - "Rush the passer" means he doesn't have to think as much and can use some of that athleticism.

DJ belongs on the weak-side. If we ditch the weak-side completely, then he doesn't have anywhere he belongs that takes full advantage of his strengths, and is instead put in a position to show his weaknesses.

And that doesn't do him or the team any favors. We'll see how it goes.

~G

[Lonestar]

DJ Williams will not be traded. I guarantee you JR :salute:



well I do not seeing him playing well in traffic in the middle and he is to small to play OLB..

he makes to much money to watch from the sidelines.. unless they do not go to a 3-4 and he plays WLB in a 4-3.. If they pick up a couple stud NT's he is out of here..

sorry

[turftoad]

DJ Williams blocked easily? I really have to disagree about this one. DJ Williams was easily our best linebacker before his injury. And he was having a Pro-Bowl worthy season before tearing his MCL vs. Miami.

It's not his fault that Jamie Winborn, Boss Bailey, and Nate Webster weren't filling their gaps consistantly. Trust me, it had to do more with those three not doing their job than DJ Williams "getting blocked easily" and "taking the wrong holes".

DJ Williams is top 10 at WLB. He has the athletic ability of a Wesley Woodyard, but the strength and power of a Patrick Willis. He's a rare linebacker and because he has such immense talent, he can fit in either 4 linebacker spots in the 3-4. I guarantee it.

Larsen was solid when he was in. He's not flashy, but he's a hard nose football player who fills his gap and makes the tackle. His speed is irrelevant when playing as an Inner Linebacker in a 3-4. You don't have to be a speed demon to be a successful Inner Linebacker, all you have to be able to do is fill your gap, stop the run, and make the tackle. Larsen can do that.

Every thing you need know know about Larsen is shown in the game vs. Atlanta.


I was talking about when he played in the middle, if you remember that.

DJ was not a good gap filler when he played there.

[getlynched47]

well I do not seeing him playing well in traffic in the middle and he is to small to play OLB..

he makes to much money to watch from the sidelines.. unless they do not go to a 3-4 and he plays WLB in a 4-3.. If they pick up a couple stud NT's he is out of here..

sorry

James Harrison- 6'0, 242 lbs.

DJ Williams- 6'1, 242 lbs.

Last time I checked, James Harrison was a pretty good WOLB in the 3-4.

[getlynched47]

I was talking about when he played in the middle, if you remember that.

DJ was not a good gap filler when he played there.

Actually he was decent. But he had Ian Gold and Nate Webster playing at his side (they didn't fill their gaps).

But he is a better WLB like you said. I just don't see how that would change if he plays WOLB in a 3-4. He's got the strength and athleticism to do it.

[turftoad]

Actually he was decent. But he had Ian Gold and Nate Webster playing at his side (they didn't fill their gaps).

But he is a better WLB like you said. I just don't see how that would change if he plays WOLB in a 3-4. He's got the strength and athleticism to do it.

He's still pretty young, we could probably get a 2nd rounder for him. :shocked:

[getlynched47]

He's still pretty young, we could probably get a 2nd rounder for him. :shocked:

I wouldn't trade DJ Williams. I don't think McDaniels is stupid enough to get rid of his best player on offense (Cutler) and then get rid of his second best player on defense (Williams).

He will be the centerpiece of our new defense. Probably play the Patrick Willis type role.

[G_Money]

I wouldn't trade DJ Williams. I don't think McDaniels is stupid enough to get rid of his best player on offense (Cutler) and then get rid of his second best player on defense (Williams).

He will be the centerpiece of our new defense. Probably play the Patrick Willis type role.

He's not a leader, gl, and not a centerpiece.

He wasn't at Miami - that was Jonathan Vilma's job.

He wasn't with us - that was Wilson and Lynch's job.

When he WAS, the last couple years, we were atrocious.

*shrugs* I don't build around that guy.

DJ's our version of Lance Briggs - good player, especially next to a good leader, but not The Man and should never be The Man.

~G

[Lonestar]

James Harrison- 6'0, 242 lbs.

DJ Williams- 6'1, 242 lbs.

Last time I checked, James Harrison was a pretty good WOLB in the 3-4.




in the Pats system

Adalius Thomas LB
Height: 6-3 Weight: 270
Year: 10 Yrs/Pat: 3

Pierre Woods LB
Height: 6-5 Weight: 250

Tully Banta-Cain LB
Height: 6-3 Weight: 250
Year: 7 Yrs/Pat: 5

Shawn Crable LB
Height: 6-5 Weight: 243
Year: 2 Yrs/Pat: 2

Vince Redd LB
Height: 6-6 Weight: 260
Year: 2 Yrs/Pat: 2

Angelo Craig LB
Height: 6-5 Weight: 242
Year: 1 Yrs/Pat: 1
http://www.patriots.com/depthchart.cfm


for SFO

Manny Lawson
6-5 240

Jay Moore
6-4 256

Parys Harelson
6-1 258

http://www.49ers.com/depthchart/

As you can see almost all of them are 6' 4" + and 255+ this is the prototype we are working from for OLB in the 3-4's these coaches come from....

If you really think they are gonna change the mold for a short underweight LB that has not been shown to be the sharpest arrow in the quiver then by all means hold on to that hope..

I think he will be playing some where else and would have been already had we not had more in penalties cap wise than keeping him..

[getlynched47]

He's not a leader, gl, and not a centerpiece.

He wasn't at Miami - that was Jonathan Vilma's job.

He wasn't with us - that was Wilson and Lynch's job.

When he WAS, the last couple years, we were atrocious.

*shrugs* I don't build around that guy.

DJ's our version of Lance Briggs - good player, especially next to a good leader, but not The Man and should never be The Man.

~G

He doesn't have to be a leader to be a good player.

Marvin Harrison. Quiet, yet he is the best Wide Receiver ever to wear a Colts uniform in recent times.

Patrick Willis is also known as being a quiet guy that does his job. Yet the San Fransisco 49ers are trying to build that defense around him.

Don't tell me that DJ Williams can't be a "centerpiece" for this defense.

[Lonestar]

He's not a leader, gl, and not a centerpiece.

He wasn't at Miami - that was Jonathan Vilma's job.

He wasn't with us - that was Wilson and Lynch's job.

When he WAS, the last couple years, we were atrocious.

*shrugs* I don't build around that guy.

DJ's our version of Lance Briggs - good player, especially next to a good leader, but not The Man and should never be The Man.

~G

good post as usual

some folks do not get it.. man crushes all over this team deserved or not..

DJ is a great player on a 4-3 with a couple other LB and a decent DL..

outside of that he is a fish out of water..

[getlynched47]

in the Pats system

Adalius Thomas LB
Height: 6-3 Weight: 270
Year: 10 Yrs/Pat: 3

Pierre Woods LB
Height: 6-5 Weight: 250

Tully Banta-Cain LB
Height: 6-3 Weight: 250
Year: 7 Yrs/Pat: 5

Shawn Crable LB
Height: 6-5 Weight: 243
Year: 2 Yrs/Pat: 2

Vince Redd LB
Height: 6-6 Weight: 260
Year: 2 Yrs/Pat: 2

Angelo Craig LB
Height: 6-5 Weight: 242
Year: 1 Yrs/Pat: 1
http://www.patriots.com/depthchart.cfm


for SFO

Manny Lawson
6-5 240

Jay Moore
6-4 256

Parys Harelson
6-1 258

http://www.49ers.com/depthchart/

As you can see almost all of them are 6' 4" + and 255+ this is the prototype we are working from for OLB in the 3-4's these coaches come from....

If you really think they are gonna change the mold for a short underweight LB that has not been shown to be the sharpest arrow in the quiver then by all means hold on to that hope..

I think he will be playing some where else and would have been already had we not had more in penalties cap wise than keeping him..

DJ Williams scouting report:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2969/D_J_Williams


Excellent speed. Can run with any back or tight end in coverage. Gets over trash well and makes a ton of plays in pursuit. Smart and instinctive in zone coverage. Can rush the passer because he is too quick to block.

Honestly, it sounds stupid that you're calling DJ Williams a stupid NFL player that isn't "the sharpest arrow in the quiver".

They change the mold to what they have. You can't replace 11 starters on defense in one offseason. McDaniels has said countless times that he will work with what he has.

Of course they will accomodate a linebacker of DJ Williams calibur. He's too special and important for the rebuilding process of this defense.

[G_Money]

Harrison isn't the focal point of that offense, Peyton is. Harrison isn't even on that offense any more. You can be a great player and still just be a piece. And Williams is nowhere CLOSE to as great at his position as Harrison is at his - comparing a guy who was moved off his best position for Ian Gold to the greatest receiver in Colts history is a little excessive.

And Patrick Willis is a rock. He's not Ray-Lewis level of vocal, but he's a rock. DJ could barely put two words together in defensive meetings. Willis is also better at his job.

Anything you say about DJ in a 3-4 is pure speculation. He's never played it. What we know about DJ is that it took him over a year to get somewhat comfortable at Sam, and he hated it, and it took half the year to become not-terrible at Mike, and even by the end he still couldn't tackle a guy in the hole but waited for the play to get to him.

Williams was so much more ridiculously physically talented than Vilma it was ridiculous, but he was never gonna take MLB from him. Same with Wilson. And Larsen was better at it as a rook than Williams was when he manned it.

DJ CAN play any LB position, but that doesn't mean he's the best option at that position. The only position he's the best option at is the weak-side, and that's a position that likely will not exist in our D for much longer. I'd let him keep playing outside in a 3-4, but if he can't make an impact there and is like he was at Mike and Sam, then we're gonna have to move him.

I hate to put it on DJ - it's not his fault we finally moved him back to his best position, only to add a DC and HC who likely will remove that position from the field.

But if he's not a fit, he's not a fit. We'll find out if he can be a fit soon. I hope he can - he's a big cap hit to cut or trade.

But I sure don't design a D around him - or else I'd leave it as a 4-3, that's for sure.

~G

[getlynched47]

Harrison isn't the focal point of that offense, Peyton is. Harrison isn't even on that offense any more. You can be a great player and still just be a piece. And Williams is nowhere CLOSE to as great at his position as Harrison is at his - comparing a guy who was moved off his best position for Ian Gold to the greatest receiver in Colts history is a little excessive.

And Patrick Willis is a rock. He's not Ray-Lewis level of vocal, but he's a rock. DJ could barely put two words together in defensive meetings. Willis is also better at his job.

Anything you say about DJ in a 3-4 is pure speculation. He's never played it. What we know about DJ is that it took him over a year to get somewhat comfortable at Sam, and he hated it, and it took half the year to become not-terrible at Mike, and even by the end he still couldn't tackle a guy in the hole but waited for the play to get to him.

Williams was so much more ridiculously physically talented than Vilma it was ridiculous, but he was never gonna take MLB from him. Same with Wilson. And Larsen was better at it as a rook than Williams was when he manned it.

DJ CAN play any LB position, but that doesn't mean he's the best option at that position. The only position he's the best option at is the weak-side, and that's a position that likely will not exist in our D for much longer. I'd let him keep playing outside in a 3-4, but if he can't make an impact there and is like he was at Mike and Sam, then we're gonna have to move him.

I hate to put it on DJ - it's not his fault we finally moved him back to his best position, only to add a DC and HC who likely will remove that position from the field.

But if he's not a fit, he's not a fit. We'll find out if he can be a fit soon. I hope he can - he's a big cap hit to cut or trade.

But I sure don't design a D around him - or else I'd leave it as a 4-3, that's for sure.

~G

DJ Williams has been moved from WLB, to SLB, to MLB, and back to WLB in his 5 year career. You want consistency out of him? Keep him at WOLB in the 3-4, despite him not having the ideal size.

It's also speculation that he will not be a fit for the 3-4, and it's ignorance saying that DJ Williams is a horrible linebacker (not directed towards you).

Andre Johnson is the focal point of the Texans offense........he's a silent leader :salute:

[Lonestar]

DJ Williams has been moved from WLB, to SLB, to MLB, and back to WLB in his 5 year career. You want consistency out of him? Keep him at WOLB in the 3-4, despite him not having the ideal size.

It's also speculation that he will not be a fit for the 3-4, and it's ignorance saying that DJ Williams is a horrible linebacker (not directed towards you).

Andre Johnson is the focal point of the Texans offense........he's a silent leader :salute:


NO one is calling him horrible he just does not fit into a true 3-4 so until his cap number goes down they may as well keep him on the roster if for no other reason water boy..:laugh:

seriously he may prove them wrong, but he is not real bright, he did not pick up the scheme under bates he failed epically at calling the plays WHAT MLB's DO.. that means he is dumber than a rock..

Sure he has played all of the positions, but he is not an all star like you seem to think.. he has instinct and is fast if they put 10-15 pounds on him will he be fast? he certainly can't grow taller..

[dogfish]

so wait, is DJ gonna start at end for us this year?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

A few points of clarification:

Tim Crowder had some of the best, if not the best combine drills out of any defensive end at the time of his drafting. He was also put through linebacker drills and according to various reports looked solid while doing so.

Secondly, Carlton Powell has played an outside technique (DE) -- which was during his time at Virginia Tech.

Last but not least, Kirk Morrison and Thomas Howard aren't scrubs and were never scrubs. They were players who immediately produced when entering the NFL and are among the top five players at their respective positions in the NFL.

[getlynched47]

NO one is calling him horrible he just does not fit into a true 3-4 so until his cap number goes down they may as well keep him on the roster if for no other reason water boy..:laugh:

seriously he may prove them wrong, but he is not real bright, he did not pick up the scheme under bates he failed epically at calling the plays WHAT MLB's DO.. that means he is dumber than a rock..

Sure he has played all of the positions, but he is not an all star like you seem to think.. he has instinct and is fast if they put 10-15 pounds on him will he be fast? he certainly can't grow taller..

Now you're not even making sense.

DJ Williams, no matter what you say, will obviously be a starter if he's still here after the draft (which obviously he will be).

Water boy? Seriously? Wow.......I'm glad you aren't a talent evaluator. He's still our best linebacker.

Really? He didn't pick up the scheme under Bates? I guess the other 11 starters didn't pick up the scheme either since the defense ended up giving up 400+ points that season :coffee:

DJ Williams is not an All-Star because he hasn't played at one position for more than two years in the NFL. Not his fault

[Lonestar]

Now you're not even making sense.

DJ Williams, no matter what you say, will obviously be a starter if he's still here after the draft (which obviously he will be).

Water boy? Seriously? Wow.......I'm glad you aren't a talent evaluator. He's still our best linebacker.

Really? He didn't pick up the scheme under Bates? I guess the other 11 starters didn't pick up the scheme either since the defense ended up giving up 400+ points that season :coffee:

DJ Williams is not an All-Star because he hasn't played at one position for more than two years in the NFL. Not his fault

Had to find some else to lip lock on after jay..

DJ is a great WLB in the 4-3..

Past that there is no room in the inn .. as for water boy I guess you missed the :laugh: I use for humor..

If they find a true bad ass NT in the draft then they at moving on straight to 3-4 and not passing go.. if that is the case and they can find someone to unload DJ's contract on he is gone this year if not next year.. one the cap ramifications are not as bad..

Maybe they can use him in CHICAGO also..

[getlynched47]

Had to find some else to lip lock on after jay..

DJ is a great WLB in the 4-3..

Past that there is no room in the inn .. as for water boy I guess you missed the :laugh: I use for humor..

If they find a true bad ass NT in the draft then they at moving on straight to 3-4 and not passing go.. if that is the case and they can find someone to unload DJ's contract on he is gone this year if not next year.. one the cap ramifications are not as bad..

Maybe they can use him in CHICAGO also..

That makes no sense whatsoever. They won't "unload" DJ Williams contract if we get a "true bad ass NT". On the contrary, that would virtually assure him to stay as a Bronco because it allows him to play sideline to sideline while this "true bad ass NT" keeps DJ Williams jersey clean. You said it yourself, DJ Williams is better in space.

Great logic :rolleyes:

[Lonestar]

That makes no sense whatsoever. They won't "unload" DJ Williams contract if we get a "true bad ass NT". On the contrary, that would virtually assure him to stay as a Bronco because it allows him to play sideline to sideline while this "true bad ass NT" keeps DJ Williams jersey clean. You said it yourself, DJ Williams is better in space.

Great logic :rolleyes:


do you even realize what a 3-4 concept does with OLB's if not go to football 101 and look up the 3-4 thread..

[Dean]

My guess is that DJ will play weakside ILB. The position is pretty similar to a 4-3 weak side OLB. My bet is that he could easily handle the position.

My only question is whether he will be able to get the job done when his number is called on a stunt.

[omac]

I'm wondering if some good ILBs can make up for a weak NT in a 3-4, or does it all come crumbling down? If it crumbles, then we may have to do something drastic like over-reach in the draft (maybe even move up), or try to secure a decent one in an uneven trade.

[horsepig]

I'm thinking the same thing, brother...

Would like to keep him, just not sure where he's going to fit into the 3-4.

Hopefully, he'll show something and find a spot for him...

DJ's been living off rep., pure and simple. I'm hoping he might actually be able to utilize his athleticism an a wide open 34. The backers can do anything in a 34, a player like DJ (who I haven't been big on) just might be able to roam some and really make some plays.

[Cugel]

That's the problem with DJ - he's been adequate everywhere but Will, and didn't achieve adequacy at either Sam or Mike til at LEAST half-way through his first year. And he still couldn't read plays before they got to him.

If somebody in a 3-4 converts to a 4-3 I'd love to trade them our now-outmoded weak-sider for their out-moded rush-backer. DJ will play in the 3-4, but I don't believe he'll excel. And that's a problem for us, given his shiny new contract.

But I'm sure we'll get a chance to see it. I still think Davis and Larsen are pegged as my inside backers barring a 1st-rounder like Maualuga being added - and maybe even including that. It may take Rey a bit to adjust.

If we don't add a good rush backer I can see DJ staying outside, but it's not a good fit for him IMO - he doesn't have the experience as a rusher, and he's not good at things he doesn't have lots of reps doing.

We'll see how we fit him in. He may wind up inside and starting by default, so we don't drop his trade value and we give him a chance at success. But Larsen hits harder, tackles at least as well, and fills holes faster, all key things for an ILB in a 3-4.

Should be a fun camp to follow at the position, that's for sure.

~G

I think they have to move DJ inside and at least TRY Dumervil/Moss/Crowder at OLB and see if any of them can play the positions.

They don't have enough starters and have to try and get some use out of Moss/Crowder if they can. And they have to decide whether they are going to keep Dumervil and re-sign him or let him go as a FA in 2010. To evaluate this is the big-part of their off-season.

Ideally, they would find that Thomas can play one DE position and they draft Tyson Jackson to play the other, then they draft a NT like Ron Brace and slot him in behind Ron Fields. And Dumervil and Moss are able to play the OLB positions with DJ moving inside. That's the BEST CASE SCENARIO and it's not likely it all works out.

If they conclude that none of Doom/Moss/Crowder can play OLB then the defense is REALLY going to suck even worse than the pessimistic expect! :rolleyes:

That would probably mean they have to draft a OLB and start him and hope for the best. God only knows who would then play the other OLB position.

They might do this anyway if a player like Everette Brown was available. Or they might decide to take the best OLB pass-rusher at #12.

Of course they also need a CB and S. And a new head-coach, but never mind. . .

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Gimme Kenny Peterson and Tyson Jackson as our starting DEs. Fields, Thomas, Powell and a rookie can be the NT/Nickel DTs. Will the ex-Colt even make the squad?

[rcsodak]

The point about taking awhile to develop is important.

The other thing to consider is that this draft is thin at DL.

I feel that we will be reaching.

By reaching, we will be missing out on some sure-fire prospects.

On the bright side, screwing up the draft will help shorten the tenure of a certain head coach........

Looks like a win-win to me.

I miss seeing you eat crow..... :elefant:

[rcsodak]

DJ Williams will not be traded. I guarantee you JR :salute:

WOW. Two guarantees in a row! :lol:

What's the difference between hoping and guaranteeing?


1 phone call.

[rcsodak]

James Harrison- 6'0, 242 lbs.

DJ Williams- 6'1, 242 lbs.

Last time I checked, James Harrison was a pretty good WOLB in the 3-4.

James Harrison:head banger/stud

DJ:soft

[rcsodak]

A few points of clarification:

Tim Crowder had some of the best, if not the best combine drills out of any defensive end at the time of his drafting. He was also put through linebacker drills and according to various reports looked solid while doing so.

Secondly, Carlton Powell has played an outside technique (DE) -- which was during his time at Virginia Tech.

Last but not least, Kirk Morrison and Thomas Howard aren't scrubs and were never scrubs. They were players who immediately produced when entering the NFL and are among the top five players at their respective positions in the NFL.

Now we know why you fell in love with Crowder..... :)





....and that we can't trust these "various reports".

Crowder does/has/will suck!

[Superchop 7]

Denver Broncos Need To Make Defensive Line Offseason Priority by Jack Walker (Contributor)
13 838 reads
Opinion
March 09, 2009
Today's Must Reads
The Five Best Hitting Pitchers in Baseball The Globalization of the UFC The Top Five Shots in Masters History If SEC Football Teams Were Tom Hanks Movies... Denver's decision to bring in veterans with one or two years of productivity left in them who can help rebuild the morale of the team and mentor the youngsters gives the team a chance to win now while also helping it build for the future.

Andre Goodman is an especially solid addition. He may not be the shutdown corner that Champ is, but he looks to play tough, and Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill will definitely be a massive improvement as a safety combination.

In short, the starting secondary for next year looks solid.

Also, although there are mixed reports about Andra Davis, he does look to complement DJ Williams nicely. I really hope they stop messing with DJ and just leave him in the middle of the field to make plays.

I think Elvis Dumervil can make the adjustment to play OLB in the 3-4, and maybe they just need to take a chance on Jarvis Moss on the other side of the field, with Boss Bailey playing at appropriate times.

But I don't see where on earth this big nose tackle is supposed to come from, unless we get prospect B.J. Raji in the draft.

And worse than this, I can't even see us getting a real top-quality defensive end either.

Effectively, this means that although we seem to have the intention of playing a 3-4 defense next year, which puts so much emphasis on space-eating, run-stuffing defensive tackles, we are not going to have the quality of player in the defensive front to be able to do this. I am worried that people do not understand this point well enough.

Without a significant trade, or the right type of draft choices, I have the starting defensive line next year being Kenny Petersen, Marcus Thomas, and possibly Tim Crowder. In other words, the same bums who contributed to last season's horror show.

Perhaps Coach McDaniels thinks there is a deep amount of defensive line talent coming through the draft and, having fixed the secondary, he can totally focus on this aspect of the game come draft time.

What I do know is if he takes anyone other than Raji, if available, or Tyson Jackson with Denver's first pick, serious problems will remain. And who else of the right type of player is available?

People who think you can find a top quality 'tweener (i.e DE/OLB hybrid) to play outside linebacker in the 3-4 before you have found your adequately-sized defensive tackle are fooling themselves. Until you have got your space eater to play right up front and dominate the middle, nothing else will fall into place.

So let's say we miss out on Raji and Jackson in the draft. I think we are just going to have to grin and bear it and possibly trade Tony Scheffler or maybe Brandon Marshall for the right type of DT/NT.

So, what do people think of this: Tony Scheffler and Brandon Marshall to Cleveland? In return, we get Shaun Rogers and Braylon Edwards.

If we get Rogers, that allows our 12th draft pick to snap up a really good linebacker, as our space eater has been found. And...wait for it...Braylon Edwards may be an even better fit for Denver in McDaniels' new spread offense than Brandon Marshall.

Scheffler, who is a great player, is still expendable, whether people like it or not, because Daniel Graham is the right type of TE for this system.

In my mind, if people can get over the idea of losing players of the quality of Scheffler and Marshall, and if Cutler can accept losing his two favorite targets, this seems to work for the Broncos.

[shank]

A few points of clarification:

Tim Crowder had some of the best, if not the best combine drills out of any defensive end at the time of his drafting. He was also put through linebacker drills and according to various reports looked solid while doing so.

Secondly, Carlton Powell has played an outside technique (DE) -- which was during his time at Virginia Tech.

Last but not least, Kirk Morrison and Thomas Howard aren't scrubs and were never scrubs. They were players who immediately produced when entering the NFL and are among the top five players at their respective positions in the NFL.
i want to believe you dream, but so far the only impressive thing that crowder has shown me is his ninja invisibility crouch.

[Dean]

In my mind, if people can get over the idea of losing players of the quality of Scheffler and Marshall, and if Cutler can accept losing his two favorite targets, this seems to work for the Broncos.


:confused:
Either this is relatively old or the author meant someone other than Cutler.

:questionmark:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Now we know why you fell in love with Crowder..... :)





....and that we can't trust these "various reports".

Crowder does/has/will suck!

I liked Tim because Denver was in desperate need of a left defensive end and his consistently put up numbers during his four year career at Texas. He was a team leader and had great work ethic as well, and seemed to be one of the better options available at defensive end in the draft. I had high hopes for him after his rookie season where he had four sacks and figured he'd eventually be the LDE on our team.

For whatever reason (perhaps him just sucking) he didn't get playing time last year. I think it's unfortunate because I still believe Tim has a lot of potential. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't fit anywhere in our defense anymore. However, the reports and the combine results are true. That really can't be disputed.

[Lonestar]

I liked Tim because Denver was in desperate need of a left defensive end and his consistently put up numbers during his four year career at Texas. He was a team leader and had great work ethic as well, and seemed to be one of the better options available at defensive end in the draft. I had high hopes for him after his rookie season where he had four sacks and figured he'd eventually be the LDE on our team.

For whatever reason (perhaps him just sucking) he didn't get playing time last year. I think it's unfortunate because I still believe Tim has a lot of potential. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't fit anywhere in our defense anymore. However, the reports and the combine results are true. That really can't be disputed.


after limited playing time as a rookie he had decent numbers considering..

I suspect he must have made a pass at Mikeys wife or something as he was in the dog house all year..

To go from pretty damned good a s rookie to out of sight in one year tells me it was personal.. it was not like we had anyone better that came to town..

[topscribe]

Denver Broncos Need To Make Defensive Line Offseason Priority by Jack Walker (Contributor)
13 838 reads
Opinion
March 09, 2009
Today's Must Reads
The Five Best Hitting Pitchers in Baseball The Globalization of the UFC The Top Five Shots in Masters History If SEC Football Teams Were Tom Hanks Movies... Denver's decision to bring in veterans with one or two years of productivity left in them who can help rebuild the morale of the team and mentor the youngsters gives the team a chance to win now while also helping it build for the future.

Andre Goodman is an especially solid addition. He may not be the shutdown corner that Champ is, but he looks to play tough, and Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill will definitely be a massive improvement as a safety combination.

In short, the starting secondary for next year looks solid.

Also, although there are mixed reports about Andra Davis, he does look to complement DJ Williams nicely. I really hope they stop messing with DJ and just leave him in the middle of the field to make plays.

I think Elvis Dumervil can make the adjustment to play OLB in the 3-4, and maybe they just need to take a chance on Jarvis Moss on the other side of the field, with Boss Bailey playing at appropriate times.

But I don't see where on earth this big nose tackle is supposed to come from, unless we get prospect B.J. Raji in the draft.

And worse than this, I can't even see us getting a real top-quality defensive end either.

Effectively, this means that although we seem to have the intention of playing a 3-4 defense next year, which puts so much emphasis on space-eating, run-stuffing defensive tackles, we are not going to have the quality of player in the defensive front to be able to do this. I am worried that people do not understand this point well enough.

Without a significant trade, or the right type of draft choices, I have the starting defensive line next year being Kenny Petersen, Marcus Thomas, and possibly Tim Crowder. In other words, the same bums who contributed to last season's horror show.

Perhaps Coach McDaniels thinks there is a deep amount of defensive line talent coming through the draft and, having fixed the secondary, he can totally focus on this aspect of the game come draft time.

What I do know is if he takes anyone other than Raji, if available, or Tyson Jackson with Denver's first pick, serious problems will remain. And who else of the right type of player is available?

People who think you can find a top quality 'tweener (i.e DE/OLB hybrid) to play outside linebacker in the 3-4 before you have found your adequately-sized defensive tackle are fooling themselves. Until you have got your space eater to play right up front and dominate the middle, nothing else will fall into place.

So let's say we miss out on Raji and Jackson in the draft. I think we are just going to have to grin and bear it and possibly trade Tony Scheffler or maybe Brandon Marshall for the right type of DT/NT.

So, what do people think of this: Tony Scheffler and Brandon Marshall to Cleveland? In return, we get Shaun Rogers and Braylon Edwards.

If we get Rogers, that allows our 12th draft pick to snap up a really good linebacker, as our space eater has been found. And...wait for it...Braylon Edwards may be an even better fit for Denver in McDaniels' new spread offense than Brandon Marshall.

Scheffler, who is a great player, is still expendable, whether people like it or not, because Daniel Graham is the right type of TE for this system.

In my mind, if people can get over the idea of losing players of the quality of Scheffler and Marshall, and if Cutler can accept losing his two favorite targets, this seems to work for the Broncos.

Scheffler and draft choices, yes. Marshall, no. The Broncos already liquidated
one Franchise player. To jettison Marshall would be to do the same to what is
essentially the only other Franchise player, on offense, anyway.

I remember the days when the Broncos had a salty defense and no offense.
They didn't win many games then, either.

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[bcbronc]

My guess is that DJ will play weakside ILB. The position is pretty similar to a 4-3 weak side OLB. My bet is that he could easily handle the position.

My only question is whether he will be able to get the job done when his number is called on a stunt.

this is my thinking as well. WILB has basically the same role and responsibilities as the 40 front Will. I don't consider DJ a great player, but he's an above average starter and the least of our worries in the front 7. I don't like him at all as an OLB in a 3-4 though; I don't know if I've ever seen him show a pass rush move and I'm not confident he'll consistantly beat blockers on the blitz.

anyway, this thread has more become "starters for front 7" so here's my take.

DE: Patterson/Powell
NT: Fields/J'vonne Parker
DE: Thomas/

then there are a few unknowns on the roster who have great DE size Nic Clemons (6'6" 300lbs), Mattias Askew (6'5" 302lbs) and Ryan McBean (6'5" 290lbs). I don't know jack about any of those guys but they all have ideal physical measurements for 3-4 DE.

SOLB: Reid/Crowder/Boss

Reid's an unknown, could be Niko V2.0 or a legit player. Crowder (as Dream said) measured well in agilities during his combine. Boss on paper is too small at 232lbs.

SILB: Davis/Larsen

If someone like Rey Rey is added to the mix, one of those guys could be cut.

WILB: DJ/WWIII

I'm fine with going into the season with these two

WOLB: Moss/Doom

they're both intriqueing and we've upgraded our coaching on this side of the ball. I'm a little tentative to add another WOLB early in the draft because I think one of these guys will pan out.

I see NT, SOLB, SILB as being the positions with the lowest upside already on the roster.

[Dean]

I have to agree with you on both strong side linebackers and the nose as being priority draft needs. However, you have more faith in our returning candidates for DE. I can realistically see two starters and two back ups coming out of that group. It could happen but IMO it is unlikely.

I see the position of nose as our greatest need. DE and SOLB, in my eyes, are a push for our second greatest need from this draft.