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CrazyHorse
04-10-2009, 10:38 AM
This topic has been discussed a bit but nobody has came out and asked the question.
So which Quarterback do you you think will do better this upcoming season in terms of statistics, wins, and overall performance?

yardog
04-10-2009, 10:39 AM
Cutler

JONtheBRONCO
04-10-2009, 10:40 AM
Orton.

Shazam!
04-10-2009, 10:41 AM
Orton isn't even the automatic Starter, but the offense is so much better in Denver that if he doesn't really **** up too badly, he can have a great Season if he picks up McDaniels' system.

The poll should read 'Who'll throw more INTs' because we all know it wouldn't be a stretch that would be Cutler.

Northman
04-10-2009, 10:41 AM
Stats- Cutler
Wins- Orton

CrazyHorse
04-10-2009, 10:46 AM
I'm thinking Cutler has the better season because as far as we know we don't have a legitimate starter in Orton. It may be Chris Simms or someone we draft. If Orton is our starter I think he may fare better statistically but Cutler will pile up more wins, even leading the Bears to the playoffs.

CrazyHorse
04-10-2009, 10:48 AM
Stats- Cutler
Wins- Orton

Just the oposite. Why?
The Bears are a better team but the Broncos have a better offense.

Northman
04-10-2009, 10:48 AM
I'm thinking Cutler has the better season because as far as we know we don't have a legitimate starter in Orton. It may be Chris Simms or someone we draft. If Orton is our starter I think he may fare better statistically but Cutler will pile up more wins, even leading the Bears to the playoffs.

Not if he keeps turning the ball over in the endzone.

turftoad
04-10-2009, 10:50 AM
Not if he keeps turning the ball over in the endzone.

He'll be better at that. The Bears have a resemblance of a running game in the red zone.

Jay won't be called apon to pull games out of his ass all season like he was here last season.

CrazyHorse
04-10-2009, 10:52 AM
Not if he keeps turning the ball over in the endzone.

I don't think Ron Turner will afford him that luxury.
Matt Forte will be scoring in the Red Zone.

Northman
04-10-2009, 10:56 AM
Just the oposite. Why?
The Bears are a better team but the Broncos have a better offense.

Broncos have a better offensive line, Grossman and Orton took a beating behind that Oline. Bears have a better but ageing defense that relies solely on turnovers at this point but give up a ton of yardage. They have no receivers whatsoever in Chicago. Cutler is a gunslinger which means he gets careless with the ball, Orton is a game manager and with a decent Oline his mistakes will be limited. Chicago wants to be able to stretch the field so Jay wasnt brought in to be a game manager but again, his current inability to go through his progressions and his carelessness with the ball will get him into trouble behind that Oline. The Bears would of been fine with Orton as their QB had they just addressed the Oline and Defense more. Instead, they got enamored by numbers and personal stats and got a Qb who will look pretty on gameday but will be a turnover machine especially without any real help on the Oline and WR core.

Northman
04-10-2009, 10:58 AM
He'll be better at that. The Bears have a resemblance of a running game in the red zone.

Jay won't be called apon to pull games out of his ass all season like he was here last season.


:lol:

Dont count on it.

broncofaninfla
04-10-2009, 11:07 AM
With Da Bears signing Pace at LT and flirting with Holt and Burress right now it looks like they are going to give Cutler some help on offense. Odds are they'll open the offense up some too and take advantage of Cutlers intangibles. Denver has the better OL no doubt but Cutler was also pretty good at getting away from pressure and throwing on the run. Not sure if Orton can even beat out Simms at this point but regardless the ENTIRE offense is learning a new system, I serioulsy doubt we will come out of the gate on all cylinders.

turftoad
04-10-2009, 11:27 AM
With Da Bears signing Pace at LT and flirting with Holt and Burress right now it looks like they are going to give Cutler some help on offense. Odds are they'll open the offense up some too and take advantage of Cutlers intangibles. Denver has the better OL no doubt but Cutler was also pretty good at getting away from pressure and throwing on the run. Not sure if Orton can even beat out Simms at this point but regardless the ENTIRE offense is learning a new system, I serioulsy doubt we will come out of the gate on all cylinders.

Exactly.

Nomad
04-10-2009, 11:34 AM
Orton, because he's a BRONCO....nuff said!!!!:coffee:

Dirk
04-10-2009, 11:39 AM
Orton, because he's a BRONCO....nuff said!!!!:coffee:

True team spirit! :beer:

BroncoJoe
04-10-2009, 11:44 AM
Guys, the Bears defense is a shadow of its former self. It really isn't all that good once you look past the turnovers they got.

As to the running game, Forte averaged 3.9/carry. That's pretty weak compared to our 4.8. Their RB's accounted for a whopping 10 rushing TD's, compared to our 13. Total yards were less as well, even though they had more carries.

Cutler is not going to be some great success there *edit* at least initially *edit*. Considering his sometimes "reckless" play, I firmly believe they're this years version of our team last year.

nevcraw
04-10-2009, 11:45 AM
Maybe it's mark Sanchez - this year's Matty Ice....

getlynched47
04-10-2009, 11:52 AM
Maybe it's mark Sanchez - this year's Matty Ice....

Yuck :sick:

broncofaninfla
04-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Orton, because he's a BRONCO....nuff said!!!!:coffee:

Agreed, I'll be pulling for whoever is under center for us but at this point have to give the edge to Cutler.

CoachChaz
04-10-2009, 12:43 PM
Based on talent, Cutler gets the nod, but...sometimes the wrong guy in the right situation is better than the right guy in the wrong situation.

topscribe
04-10-2009, 12:48 PM
I believe Cutler will have a better season in terms of W-L. But that is not
necessarily because of the respective QBs. Chicago will continue to have a
better ST and defense, and Denver's schedule is just brutal.

Don't be surprised, however, if Orton ends up with better general stats, simply
because of his offensive supporting cast and the coaching he will receive.

But everyone will be finding out just why Cutler was 17-20 with the Broncos.

-----

Foochacho
04-10-2009, 12:51 PM
Cutler will throw more int's than td's. Orton wins.

claymore
04-10-2009, 12:53 PM
If we can keep one running back healthy I say Orton by a mile.

NameUsedBefore
04-10-2009, 01:23 PM
Cutler.

Orton might not even be the starter ffs.

honz
04-10-2009, 03:03 PM
Cutler.

Orton might not even be the starter ffs.

I think it's safe to say that this thread is based on presuming that Orton is the starter, ffs.

CoachChaz
04-10-2009, 03:07 PM
I think it would be a complete shock if Orton were NOT the starter, ffs.

dogfish
04-10-2009, 03:07 PM
lol. . . .

DenBronx
04-10-2009, 03:11 PM
whats ffs?


i think the bears will win more games than us. so im gonna say cutler. hope orton tears it up though and contines his winning ways.

CoachChaz
04-10-2009, 03:23 PM
whats ffs?


i think the bears will win more games than us. so im gonna say cutler. hope orton tears it up though and contines his winning ways.

For F**ks Sake

DenBronx
04-10-2009, 03:25 PM
For F**ks Sake

lol!

DenverBronkHoes
04-10-2009, 03:29 PM
I think the more balanced poll would be "WHO WILL THROW MORE INTs IN 2009??"

im torn, but it will be orton

DenBronx
04-10-2009, 03:43 PM
I think the more balanced poll would be "WHO WILL THROW MORE INTs IN 2009??"

im torn, but it will be orton

simms

Broncolingus
04-10-2009, 04:42 PM
2009 Season: Orton Vs. Cutler

Good question...

I don't really think I have an idea now because I have no idea how Orton's going to fair behind a good O-line and with some good receivers...my HE can help us score some points in the red zone.

Conversely, I don't know how Jay-Jay is going to do behind a poorer O-line, with NO receivers to speak of...

Plus, the other variables out there like defense, special teams, field position, play calling, and so on...it's tough to call.

If Denver can put even a decent - if not unspectacular - defense on the field this year, then I'd say Orton. If Denver's defense is crappy as it has been the past several seasons, then I'd say it looks bad for big Kyle.

Plus, Denver's schedule is tough this year...

If Chicago's defense plays well all season though, then I'd give the nod to Jay-Jay...but, if their defense continues to decline (which I think), then it may be a long year for Jay-Jay...

I guess I really didn't answer that at all did I?

Oh, I voted for Orton simply because he plays for Denver and 'the other player' doesn't...

Lonestar
04-10-2009, 04:48 PM
Who cares if jay does well?

sounds like penis envy to me..

just how many more jay threads do we need?..

getlynched47
04-10-2009, 04:50 PM
Who cares if jay does well?

sounds like penis envy to me..

just how many more jay threads do we need?..

A lot of us still like Jay Cutler (the player), not the personality.

NameUsedBefore
04-10-2009, 04:55 PM
3,073 yards, 21 TDs, 9 INTs.

That's how Cutler fared the last time he had "no O-line and no receivers".

Lonestar
04-10-2009, 04:57 PM
A lot of us still like Jay Cutler (the player), not the personality.




but he is no longer an Bronco..

so who cares..

time to move on IMHO..

BroncoJoe
04-10-2009, 04:58 PM
3,073 yards, 21 TDs, 9 INTs.

That's how Cutler fared the last time he had "no O-line and no receivers".

Winning Quarterback?

Not yet. At least not since High School.

topscribe
04-10-2009, 04:59 PM
but he is no longer an Bronco..

so who cares..

time to move on IMHO..

Move on to where? This is the offseason. Let them banter.

The press can't even find much else to talk about right now.

-----

turftoad
04-10-2009, 05:02 PM
Winning Quarterback?

Not yet. At least not since High School.

Yep, cuz he's the WHOLE team. :tsk:

BroncoJoe
04-10-2009, 05:04 PM
Yep, cuz he's the WHOLE team. :tsk:

Exactly. Credit for wins and no fault for losses doesn't fly in my mind.

DenverBronkHoes
04-10-2009, 05:05 PM
Who cares if jay does well?

sounds like penis envy to me..

just how many more jay threads do we need?..

u said penis???

post reported!:tsk:

turftoad
04-10-2009, 05:06 PM
Exactly. Credit for wins and no fault for losses doesn't fly in my mind.

I agree Joe. Win as a team, lose as a team. :salute:

So why all the blame of all the loses on Jay?

getlynched47
04-10-2009, 05:08 PM
but he is no longer an Bronco..

so who cares..

time to move on IMHO..

I understand that. That's why it's useless to complain about McDaniels trading Jay Cutler. It's been done, there's no looking back.

getlynched47
04-10-2009, 05:09 PM
I agree Joe. Win as a team, lose as a team. :salute:

So why all the blame of all the loses on Jay?

According to MissouriBronc, Quarterbacks are judged soley by their record no matter the reason why his record is so bad. :rolleyes: In Jay's case, he had a defense that gave up 400+ points in each of his first two full seasons as a starter, yet it's still his fault :coffee:

BroncoJoe
04-10-2009, 05:10 PM
I agree Joe. Win as a team, lose as a team. :salute:

So why all the blame of all the loses on Jay?

I do place a lot of the success or failure of a team on the QB (not all, just a lot). Was just mentioning what a lot of the Cutler ball-hangers typically state: It was the defense! It was the Special Teams! It was Marshall and Royal dropping too many passes! No running game!, etc, etc.

Cutler played a part in our losses. 21 (maybe 23? Don't remember...) of our 30 turnovers happened in our eight losses. That's on the offense.

turftoad
04-10-2009, 05:10 PM
but he is no longer an Bronco..

so who cares..

time to move on IMHO..

Because we still like to watch (and talk about) talented football players in the NFL.

I watch all football, not just the Broncos. The Broncos happen to my favorite team.

turftoad
04-10-2009, 05:12 PM
I do place a lot of the success or failure of a team on the QB (not all, just a lot). Was just mentioning what a lot of the Cutler ball-hangers typically state:
It was the defense! It was the Special Teams! It was Marshall and Royal dropping too many passes! No running game!, etc, etc.


Those are not excuses. Those are facts.

Lonestar
04-10-2009, 05:16 PM
Because we still like to watch (and talk about) talented football players in the NFL.

I watch all football, not just the Broncos. The Broncos happen to my favorite team.


Well I for one am tired of the jay and Jake threads all the time that pop up.. the comparisons are beyond me..

wonder when we are gonna get a cup size poll..

if some wants to talk about jay let them in the OTHER teams area..

I'd like to move on to the future Orton, Simms or whomever.. this is a broncos forum afterall..

let a sleeping bronco sleep.

BroncoJoe
04-10-2009, 05:17 PM
Those are not excuses. Those are facts.

So is 30 turnovers by the offense. So is only three points off of 17 two minute drives. So is having the #2 ranked offense in yardage, but only #16 in points scored. So is having to only win ONE FRICKEN GAME with three left to make the playoffs (worse collapse in NFL history, BTW). *Edit - Don't even get me started on the running game! - /*edit

The argument goes both ways. That's all I'm looking for. Cutler is not the second coming. He hasn't proven anything yet. Emphasis on YET. I wanted him here. I wanted him to erase (or at least diminish) the memory of Elway.

He didn't want to be here. He's gone. Good riddance, IMO.

Lonestar
04-10-2009, 05:17 PM
Those are not excuses. Those are facts.

there is no excuse for failure only reasons..

getlynched47
04-10-2009, 05:22 PM
there is no excuse for failure only reasons..

Reason 1: Defense that gives up 400+ points in a season (2007-2008)

Reason 2: Seven runningbacks on IR

Reason 3: Jay Cutler's costly interceptions

Reason 4: Shanahan drifting away from the run in some games when it was working very well.

Reason 5: Bob Slowick

Reason 6: Top five in most dropped passes in the NFL

Reason 7: Poor special teams unit that didn't block for huge returns, yet allowed punt and kickoff returns for TD's

NameUsedBefore
04-10-2009, 05:24 PM
So is 30 turnovers by the offense. So is only three points off of 17 two minute drives. So is having the #2 ranked offense in yardage, but only #16 in points scored. So is having to only win ONE FRICKEN GAME with three left to make the playoffs (worse collapse in NFL history, BTW). *Edit - Don't even get me started on the running game! - /*edit

The argument goes both ways. That's all I'm looking for. Cutler is not the second coming. He hasn't proven anything yet. Emphasis on YET. I wanted him here. I wanted him to erase (or at least diminish) the memory of Elway.

He didn't want to be here. He's gone. Good riddance, IMO.

112.

That's the combined scores of those last three games.

NINE games last season our defense gave up 30 or more points.

You're looking in the wrong direction as to why Denver didn't make the playoffs last year.

turftoad
04-10-2009, 05:25 PM
So is 30 turnovers by the offense. So is only three points off of 17 two minute drives. So is having the #2 ranked offense in yardage, but only #16 in points scored. So is having to only win ONE FRICKEN GAME with three left to make the playoffs (worse collapse in NFL history, BTW).

The argument goes both ways. That's all I'm looking for. Cutler is not the second coming. He hasn't proven anything yet. Emphasis on YET. I wanted him here. I wanted him to erase (or at least diminish) the memory of Elway.

He didn't want to be here. He's gone. Good riddance, IMO.

Agreed Joe. Yet, is right. He's a 25yr old kid that happens to be a Pro Bowler in his young career. Sure he made some mistakes. You didn't when you were that age? Not just in your personal life but busines life too?

I wanted him to stay also, I think he's going to be Great. Yep, I said it, Great. He's got at least ten more years to play and I, for one am going to enjoy watching him whenever he's on TV.
Yeah, he's gone. I'm aware of that.

That said, I'm not going to hate on the kid just because he's not a Bronco anymore.

turftoad
04-10-2009, 05:25 PM
there is no excuse for failure only reasons..

And let me guess. Jay was the only reason.

BroncoJoe
04-10-2009, 05:30 PM
112.

That's the combined scores of those last three games.

NINE games last season our defense gave up 30 or more points.

You're looking in the wrong direction as to why Denver didn't make the playoffs last year.

and what did our offense produce, oh great one?

Oh, how about 54 points scored on offense? That's 18/game.

How about six turnovers by our offense?

You're too focused on one side of the ball.

BroncoJoe
04-10-2009, 05:32 PM
Agreed Joe. Yet, is right. He's a 25yr old kid that happens to be a Pro Bowler in his young career. Sure he made some mistakes. You didn't when you were that age? Not just in your personal life but busines life too?

I wanted him to stay also, I think he's going to be Great. Yep, I said it, Great. He's got at least ten more years to play and I, for one am going to enjoy watching him whenever he's on TV.

I'm not.

Yeah, he's gone. I'm aware of that.

That said, I'm not going to hate on the kid just because he's not a Bronco anymore.

I am.

- - -

turftoad
04-10-2009, 05:35 PM
- - -

So you ONLY watch the Broncos?

And........... you hate all players that aren't Broncos?

BTW. I love your wife too. She seems like a fine person. Smiles !!

BroncoJoe
04-10-2009, 05:46 PM
So you ONLY watch the Broncos?

And........... you hate all players that aren't Broncos?

BTW. I love your wife too. She seems like a fine person. Smiles !!

The Broncos are the only NFL team I care about. I've never been a "player" kind of guy, with few exceptions like Elway, Davis, Atwater, Little, Mech, and even Sewell (I'm missing a bunch, but it's beer-thirty). Everything else around the league is just icing on the cake.

TXBRONC
04-10-2009, 05:49 PM
but he is no longer an Bronco..

so who cares..

time to move on IMHO..

You seem to like talking about the New England Patriots.

Lonestar
04-10-2009, 05:51 PM
Agreed Joe. Yet, is right. He's a 25yr old kid that happens to be a Pro Bowler in his young career. Sure he made some mistakes. You didn't when you were that age? Not just in your personal life but busines life too?

I wanted him to stay also, I think he's going to be Great. Yep, I said it, Great. He's got at least ten more years to play and I, for one am going to enjoy watching him whenever he's on TV.
Yeah, he's gone. I'm aware of that.

That said, I'm not going to hate on the kid just because he's not a Bronco anymore.

I think he MAY be a great QB down the line..

But do we need a GREAT QB one that will cost the team $100,000,000.00 to a $125,000,000.00 ..

to run this offense will he be worth more perhaps $75,000,000.00 than a drafted or a traded for QB, like Orton..

Can anyone here prove to me he would get us to the play offs in this system?

Can anyone prove he would be worth 50-75 Million more than Orton..

Like mikey was to RB's, this system is to QB's.. Why over spend for them.. once in place and WE know they can be trusted to run the system then you pay them..

But 100-125 maybe even a 150 mil for a QB well folks that is nuts.. Unless that is all you have to cling to.. and he is probably why you can't afford other players..


Am I the only to see this?

Northman
04-10-2009, 06:16 PM
Guys, the Bears defense is a shadow of its former self. It really isn't all that good once you look past the turnovers they got.

As to the running game, Forte averaged 3.9/carry. That's pretty weak compared to our 4.8. Their RB's accounted for a whopping 10 rushing TD's, compared to our 13. Total yards were less as well, even though they had more carries.

Cutler is not going to be some great success there *edit* at least initially *edit*. Considering his sometimes "reckless" play, I firmly believe they're this years version of our team last year.

Thats got to sting. :lol:

Northman
04-10-2009, 06:22 PM
So is 30 turnovers by the offense. So is only three points off of 17 two minute drives. So is having the #2 ranked offense in yardage, but only #16 in points scored. So is having to only win ONE FRICKEN GAME with three left to make the playoffs (worse collapse in NFL history, BTW). *Edit - Don't even get me started on the running game! - /*edit

The argument goes both ways. That's all I'm looking for. Cutler is not the second coming. He hasn't proven anything yet. Emphasis on YET. I wanted him here. I wanted him to erase (or at least diminish) the memory of Elway.

He didn't want to be here. He's gone. Good riddance, IMO.

Couldnt of said it better myself. :beer:

Den21vsBal19
04-10-2009, 06:35 PM
I'm not going to make predictions just yet on which will have the better year, there's still too many variables to consider.

Orton (or Simms) will have the O-line to protect them, and the recievers to throw at. Cutler, at this moment, doesn't have anything like that talent in Chicago.

Both teams have problems with their running games, Chicago's was actually worse than ours.

Both D's need work, Chicago's was aided by their turnovers, but were still only average, whereas ours was pure crap........

So let's see how the two teams go about filling those holes before making any predictions.........

LoyalSoldier
04-10-2009, 07:51 PM
Guys, the Bears defense is a shadow of its former self. It really isn't all that good once you look past the turnovers they got.

Still significantly better than our defense. Besides turnovers = scoring.


As to the running game, Forte averaged 3.9/carry. That's pretty weak compared to our 4.8. Their RB's accounted for a whopping 10 rushing TD's, compared to our 13. Total yards were less as well, even though they had more carries.

Forte did that as a rookie with Orton at QB.

I don't care what stats say, our running game was not reliable at all for most of the year. They built up the stats because they weren't the main threat on the offense.

Dean
04-10-2009, 08:51 PM
I think he MAY be a great QB down the line..

But do we need a GREAT QB one that will cost the team $100,000,000.00 to a $125,000,000.00 ..

to run this offense will he be worth more perhaps $75,000,000.00 than a drafted or a traded for QB, like Orton..

Can anyone here prove to me he would get us to the play offs in this system?

Can anyone prove he would be worth 50-75 Million more than Orton..

Like mikey was to RB's, this system is to QB's.. Why over spend for them.. once in place and WE know they can be trusted to run the system then you pay them..

But 100-125 maybe even a 150 mil for a QB well folks that is nuts.. Unless that is all you have to cling to.. and he is probably why you can't afford other players..


Am I the only to see this?

Brady signed for $60 million in 2005. Have you noticed the way salaries have been rising? IMO, whoever is able to effectively run the offense will make $80+ million in the next couple of years whether it is Orton, Simms, or a newbie. The salary scale is rocketing upward every year. You are going to have to pay for quality.

Shazam!
04-10-2009, 09:18 PM
Even the lousiest of QBs can look like Pro Bowlers with protection and good receiving corps. Denver will be ok. I hope McD Drafts low for Cutler's successor, doesn't waste a high pick and is right on his talents.

jndjus
04-10-2009, 09:28 PM
origanally from texas and been a broncos fan since the early 70's, with everyting from the dismissing the former coach to cutler, i hope tho broncos go 0 and 16, and cutler takes the bears to a superbowl victory.

Shazam!
04-10-2009, 10:05 PM
A fan from the 70's that cannot spell. Right.

When I hear 'supposed' Broncos fans say they want 'their' team to go 0-16 I want to vomit.

jndjus
04-10-2009, 10:29 PM
i will use spell check next time for you phonetically challanged people

jndjus
04-10-2009, 10:32 PM
everybody has a bad game, season no since in doing what bowlin did, mickey d is a clown

slim
04-10-2009, 10:54 PM
origanally from texas and been a broncos fan since the early 70's, with everyting from the dismissing the former coach to cutler, i hope tho broncos go 0 and 16, and cutler takes the bears to a superbowl victory.

Yes, I often root against my favorite teams. That is what fans do.

topscribe
04-10-2009, 11:28 PM
A fan from the 70's that cannot spell. Right.

When I hear 'supposed' Broncos fans say they want 'their' team to go 0-16 I want to vomit.

Please don't do that, my friend. :tsk:

People misspell words all over the board. Let's not pick on one poster, okay?

-----

slim
04-11-2009, 12:30 AM
Please don't do that, my friend. :tsk:

People misspell words all over the board. Let's not pick on one poster, okay?

-----

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have never misspelled a word :elefant:

MasterShake
04-11-2009, 12:33 AM
Orton. I have to look at the situations each are going into. Cutler is expected to do well, and Orton is expected to just manage the games. It seems like players/teams under the radar seem to do better due to lack of pressure. Cutler will have all eyes on him in a way he has never seen before in Chicago. Unless they upgrade the offense or the play calling gets more aggressive, I can see him throwing his teammates under the bus by week 9. Meanwhile, at the same time Kyle Orton will have carved out a nice 7-2 record for the Broncos.

Oh, and I will find a magic lamp with only two wishes left in it, one of which I will waste wishing to find out where the third wish is. My final wish will also be wasted when I wished I hadn't asked where the first wish went.

But the Broncos and Orton will have good (but not great) season, so it will be ok. I honestly can see Cutler struggling after a good start, but I guess we will see.

Shazam!
04-11-2009, 01:32 AM
People misspell words all over the board.

Right sorry. I was getting at something else though.

Actially I think "most" of the people here have some pretty good vocabulary and grammar.

I actually can think of most of them. You are one.

Shazam!
04-11-2009, 01:36 AM
Cutler is expected to do well, and Orton is expected to just manage the games.

It seems like players/teams under the radar seem to do better due to lack of pressure.

I hope Orton managing games means he can manage not throwing endzone INTs.

Let's hope Cutler can win one of the last three must-win games for Chicago too.

Lonestar
04-11-2009, 01:40 AM
Brady signed for $60 million in 2005. Have you noticed the way salaries have been rising? IMO, whoever is able to effectively run the offense will make $80+ million in the next couple of years whether it is Orton, Simms, or a newbie. The salary scale is rocketing upward every year. You are going to have to pay for quality.

Yeah Brady who was at the time a 6th round draft choice.. and had he not been groomed into a future HOF QB then he would not have gotten 60 million back then..

I think it is not that unheard of that we can get along without spending 125 mill next year for something we really do not need.. If a 70 or 80 million guy can accomplish the same thing as jay could and save us 40-55 mil I do not see the need for a bit strong arm for that 50 + million..

It is called a nice to have if you can afford it but it is far from being a gotta have..

As I said the system coming in is very QB friendly much like mikeys ZBS was RB friendly.. not need to overspend At this time..

bcbronc
04-11-2009, 02:36 AM
Cutler. but the gap between the two will be small enough that the trade will be viewed as the proverbial "win/win".

If Chicago isn't the worst place to play as far as the elements are concerned, it's right near the top. I think Cutler is pretty much the prototype Chicago QB (as far as the city, not necessarily the team). He's got an arm that can deal with the wind, and the athleticism and phsyicallity to pick up 3rd and 3's with his legs.

and playing in a more conservative offense should help with his decision making as well. There's a lot of layers in a Shanahan offense, and Jay seems the type that is more effective playing by instinct than by intellect. I see that as a big part of why he's so lights-out outside the pocket. so you run 1st and 2nd down, then use the playaction to get Jay outside the tackle. he's got a good TE in the middle of the field and Hester going deep--third option he calls his own number. keep it safe, keep it simple, maximise Jay's strengths and minimize his weaknesses. his stats go down, but his play improves

3200yds 18td 7ints sets career high for rushing attempts, yards, tds.

it's the same but opposite for Orton. a spread offense requiring quick, decisive reads but less athleticism and creativity fits Orton's strengths more than Chicago's offense did. I don't think the QB position will be an issue for us at all this season.

3750yds 23tds 11ints

NameUsedBefore
04-11-2009, 03:11 AM
Orton wont be expected to just manage games. Not with Denver's defense. If our QB is just "managing" then Denver is losing. Beyond already putting too much stock in Orton as a player, this is one of the bigger errors in assessing how the QBs are going to be playing. If teams are rocking us for thirty a game again, and Orton is doing his best Trent Dilfer impression, then 7-2 is a pipe dream -- rather, wishful thinking (eh, eh?). We're gonna need at least some play from the QB position to stay remotely relevant. LoyalSoldier's thread about crap defenses and win-loss records, regardless of offensive firepower, should be (and what I am) expecting if the otherside of the ball doesn't improve, QB managing or not.

Den21vsBal19
04-11-2009, 05:06 AM
origanally from texas and been a broncos fan since the early 70's, with everyting from the dismissing the former coach to cutler, i hope tho broncos go 0 and 16, and cutler takes the bears to a superbowl victory.
And I thought I was a fan of the Denver Broncos, not the Denver Cutlers :tsk:

How about a little faith in the guy (Bowlen) that has ran the team as one of the best in the league over the last 25 years?

Dean
04-11-2009, 06:56 AM
And I thought I was a fan of the Denver Broncos, not the Denver Cutlers :tsk:

How about a little faith in the guy (Bowlen) that has ran the team as one of the best in the league over the last 25 years?

D21, Bowlen didn't run the team unless you consider choosing the head coach as running the team. In the past, Pat has stayed way way back in the background. He said that he was going to make the decissions this year but, to date, I have seen no evidence he is doing anything beyond firing Shanahan and the Goodmans while hiring McKid. That gives me little confidence.

McKid and X-man are running the team. Neither of the 30 year old newbies have any experience doing that. They may be the best management team ever assembled or the worst. We don't know what will happen. IMO the gamble Bowlen made in hiring two complete novices is what makes many Bronco fans very uneasy.

Pat threw the dice with all his money on the table. Now, he seems not to want to uncover his eyes to see whether he won or lost. He has once again distanced himself from the operations of the team with the exception of a few phone calls and an interview in which he couln't remember much of his past history. McKid didn't even contact him regarding whether to attempt to trade the franchise QB- or at least that is the party line.

Den21vsBal19
04-11-2009, 07:12 AM
D21, Bowlen didn't run the team unless you consider choosing the head coach as running the team. In the past, Pat has stayed way way back in the background. He said that he was going to make the decissions this year but, to date, I have seen no evidence he is doing anything beyond firing Shanahan and the Goodmans while hiring McKid. That gives me little confidence.

McKid and X-man are running the team. Neither of the 30 year old newbies have any experience doing that. They may be the best management team ever assembled or the worst. We don't know what will happen. IMO the gamble Bowlen made in hiring two complete novices is what makes many Bronco fans very uneasy.

Pat threw the dice with all his money on the table. Now, he seems not to want to uncover his eyes to see whether he won or lost. He has once again distanced himself from the operations of the team with the exception of a few phone calls and an interview in which he couln't remember much of his past history. McKid didn't even contact him regarding whether to attempt to trade the franchise QB- or at least that is the party line.
So far through his tenure, when he's had to make a major decision, it's tended to be the right one............I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until the consequences of his decision are played out...............which won't be until the end of next season, as we got a defered pick from the Bears

Nomad
04-11-2009, 07:41 AM
So far through his tenure, when he's had to make a major decision, it's tended to be the right one............I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until the consequences of his decision are played out...............which won't be until the end of next season, as we got a defered pick from the Bears


McDaniels and Xanders have to start somewhere and get experience. If it doesn't pan out, at least Bowlen will have learned but the age thing is a little exaggerated, imo, vs experience of a coach. Who knows what experience McDaniels soaked up in NE, I guess we'll find out. Bowlen is allowed to experiment with the trend of the NFL in hiring young coaches. All this jibberish will be legit after next couple seasons especially if McDaniels has the 'deer-in-the-headlights' look coaching games and him/Xanders have poor drafting skills.

Nomad
04-11-2009, 08:06 AM
Here's a good opinion from a Bears fan about Orton vs Cutler. Warning...wear your sunglasses JR:D!!

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=141359

MasterShake
04-11-2009, 09:11 AM
Orton wont be expected to just manage games. Not with Denver's defense. If our QB is just "managing" then Denver is losing. Beyond already putting too much stock in Orton as a player, this is one of the bigger errors in assessing how the QBs are going to be playing. If teams are rocking us for thirty a game again, and Orton is doing his best Trent Dilfer impression, then 7-2 is a pipe dream -- rather, wishful thinking (eh, eh?). We're gonna need at least some play from the QB position to stay remotely relevant. LoyalSoldier's thread about crap defenses and win-loss records, regardless of offensive firepower, should be (and what I am) expecting if the otherside of the ball doesn't improve, QB managing or not.

By "managing" a game, I mean 12-16 play drives that eat up 4+ minutes and end in scores. You do that no one is putting up points on you because they are never on the field. And yes, all the BS on here right now is a pipe dream. Training camp hasn't even started yet! :D

sacmar
04-11-2009, 02:54 PM
Who do i vote for in this poll you say.....OUR fr*&^% guy that's who. Kyle Orton (when we really don't even know the starter of either team yet) is now my QB he so far has decided to stay in denver and play football while others for whatever reason (while being paid millions no less) chose to cry and moan cause someone was talking about him behind his back (thank god he doesn't read what we say here during the season i guess) instead of going through a process we've used since 3rd grade called tryouts and showing on the field he is better than cassel, elway, brady instead of just telling us he is. who cares.....screw cutler i hope the bears hell any of chicago's teams don't win a game all season

TXBRONC
04-11-2009, 08:39 PM
So far through his tenure, when he's had to make a major decision, it's tended to be the right one............I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until the consequences of his decision are played out...............which won't be until the end of next season, as we got a defered pick from the Bears

How do you figure? In his tenure he's made four major decisions. He fired Reeves which was the right decision. He hired Wade Philips to replace Reeves wrong decision. He hired Shanahan to replace Reeves obviously that was the right decision. He fired Shanahan, I don't think anyone can say definitely that was the right decision, only those blinded by their hatred of Shanahan will say that. He hired McDaniels since he hasn't coached a game yet it's kind of hard to say it was the right decision.

Lonestar
04-11-2009, 10:07 PM
How do you figure? In his tenure he's made four major decisions. He fired Reeves which was the right decision. He hired Wade Philips to replace Reeves wrong decision. He hired Shanahan to replace Reeves obviously that was the right decision. He fired Shanahan, I don't think anyone can say definitely that was the right decision, only those blinded by their hatred of Shanahan will say that. He hired McDaniels since he hasn't coached a game yet it's kind of hard to say it was the right decision.

He hired Wade because Mikey was not going to take the job unless he got total authority to run the team like he did several years later.. So at the time it probably was not a mistake considering the other options available to him..

I also believe that mikey getting fired was the only possible out come considering the total collapse of this team since the HOF players retired.. Although they continued to win while "reloading" it was a matter of time before the poor personnel decisions from starting in 1998 going up to 2006 came back to haunt them.

his insistence in not firing slowick in 2007 was bad and after 2008 almost criminal.. and that is not hatred talking merely cold hard facts..

I am glad he is gone I wished he would have allowed a real GM in here years ago.. but he was a control freak and he alone ran this team into the ground on defense, special teams and coaching.. all the while padding the offense with all the bells and whistles hoping they could get lucky in the playoffs.

Now was Josh a good choice the more I see of him the better I like him.. but time will tell..

SmilinAssasSin27
04-12-2009, 12:20 PM
I actually think this could go either way.

I believe Cutler is the more talented QB, but he is in a boring, close to the vest offense, he has no weapins to speak of and his OLine is suspect at best. He should have a better defense around him, but that is an aging defense. Hester should get him in great field position and give him shorter fields to work with. That could hurt his yardage stats, but also may make it easier to get into the endzone.

Orton clearly has the better cast around him. Our return game has improved w/ Royal back there, but it's still mnot spectacular. BUT we also have a new coaching staff who can realistically only make it better. The "system" may play to Orton's strengths. But again, those are limited. I don't think he'll make the same mistakes as Cutler, but he also won't make the more dynamic plays. Our D can't get any worse (at least I don't think so) so that should help.

I don't wanna be a homer here, but really don't think we are any worse than Chicago. Their D isn't what it used to be and outisde of the QB and RB, their offense sucks ass. I voted Cutler due to natural ability, but I think it'll be a close race.

Lonestar
04-12-2009, 12:51 PM
Here's a good opinion from a Bears fan about Orton vs Cutler. Warning...wear your sunglasses JR:D!!

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=141359


since I got thricked into going back there with this link.. I thought I'd paste the post here for all to read..

04-10-2009, 05:59 PM
psychobear

Practice Squad Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37


Orton... good and bad. Followed his career from the start.
Hi guys,

I'm sure what I had wrote in a few threads here got buried amongst the initial excitement of the trade. I am going to break it down for you. I went to Purdue... so I followed everything he did there. I am a Bears fan... so I followed everything he did there.

So first of all... college. Orton was the frontrunner for the Hiesman right from the begining of his senior season. He had thrown something like 12 TD's and 0 INT's for a while. After he got hurt... those numbers weren't nearly as good. In college, his reciever now leads all recievers in catches for NCAA. It's the record... and this reciever was never drafted (and failed to make the panther's who picked him up after the draft). However, his deep ball even in college lacked accuracy.

Now... on to the pro's. He got thrust into action when Grossman got hurt in preseason. He was thrown into the action even though everyone knew he wasn't ready for the NFL. He did fairly well... then had a terrible game against the bungles. After that... the handcuffs were slapped on and slapped on hard. Ron Turner went public and said he stripped down the playbook to about 1/4th of what it previously was. He was deemed the caretaker of the offense while playing with the best defense in football. He filled that role decently... and got a pretty good winning record. No Bears fan ever mistakes his record that year as being a result of how he played. Muhammad threw him under the bus on monday night football after a play where he thought he was open (but clearly wasn't after review). Grossman said he was healthy and Orton was yanked... not to see action for a while.

Through all of this Orton was a class act. He worked hard to improve his game from his terrible rookie numbers. When it became clear that Grossman wasn't the answer (and they gave him every opportunity to show he could be the guy) then Orton got some playing time in 2007 after Griese got hurt. He played well enough that he earned the right to compete for the starting spot.

Last year he won that battle. It's no big feat but he really played very very well until he was hurt. I showed that at the same pace as before he was hurt he would have 3800 yards, 24 TD's and something like 12 picks with a 89 QB rating and 62% completion percentage. Don't say he had worse weapons than in Denver... he had DIFFERENT weapons. The primary one was our RB, the next were our 2 TE's... then we had WR's. It actually played to his strengths very well... making good presnap reads and picking defenses apart in the short to mid range game. Make no mistake about it though... his long game still struggles.

Now... to clarify this... Orton has an incredibly strong arm. He probably has one of the stronger arms in the NFL. He can make a long pass... but that pass will be on a rope. On long passes that is pretty dangerous because he isn't dropping it into a spot. The entire distance to the reciever has to be pretty much open. He isn't going to drop anything in over someone's shoulder. He can throw a jump ball on a rope though (one reason our TE Olsen put up some good numbers).

Orton isn't mobile at all but he does have good pocket presence. He will make those quick movements to avoid a sack... reset... and then throw a strike. The guy has ice in his veins... he is very cool under pressure. That is the case for if the game situation has a lot of pressure on him and it's the case if he is getting blitzed.

So are you getting a guy you can win with? Yes... the guy doesn't lose a lot of games. One thign fans in Chicago know is bad QB play... and Orton isn't bad. To an extent he can help your defense because he can keep them rested... and not put them in difficult situations. Bradon Marshall is exactly the type of reciever I wanted Chicago to get for him... he can get those jump balls.

What you may find interesting is how he is going to effect the Bronco's team. I think, first of all, kiss YAC goodbye. Kyle is accurate but he has been taught from the beginning of his career and in Chicago to take care of the ball. That means.. .he throws away from the defense and expects the reciever to make a play (and if he doesn't then the defense doesn't get a pick). That also means that once they get the ball they usually arn't in great position to run after the catch. Second... you will not be a wide open offense anymore. Safeties will move up into the box and dare Kyle to throw. this means the running game will struggle even more... and more than likely those underneath passes that he loves won't result in a big play (see above about YAC AND having more players waiting to make the play. What you should also see (you would hope) is better defensive play. He'll give them a long field to defend... and some good breaks on the bench.

Some things Kyle won't do for you...
Kyle won't win a shootout.
Kyle won't put up big numbers.
Kyle won't turn the ball over.
Kyle won't give you miracle comebacks.

Some things Kyle will do for you...
Kyle will take care of the ball.
Kyle will extend plays.
Kyle will burn time off the clock.
Kyle will score in the redzone (it's a short field).
Kyle will find the open man.
Kyle will play when hurt (and eventually he will get hurt)

If you love the long ball... kiss it goodbye. You'll see it come out every so often... but become more used to long sustained drives and 3 and outs. Kiss your running game goodbye as well.

You can win with Kyle... if you draft well on defense. I hope he does well for you, as I said I watched his entire career.

1 more thing... there is a glimmer of hope with Kyle. Every single year I have watched him he has greatly improved 1 part of his game. He used to lock onto recievers. Now he is a master of going through his reads. He used to actually be pretty inaccurate with the short game. Now he is extremely accurate. He used to not be able to avoid pressure. He can now scramble although he'll never be mobile. His biggest weakness right now is the long ball. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him develop that.

There are 3 things that seperate him from Cutler.
Cutler is mobile.
Cutler has a great long ball.
Cutler will work what can only be described as magic... doing things that will just make people go WOW.

Orton may be able to develop that long ball... but the rest is something you'll never get out of him.
***********


Looks good to me..


Here is a good read in the same thread..

KO8pectate

Nice writeup my only problems with it is

he cant win a shootout

this is

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80bc0ea4

he wont give you miraculous comebacks

against ATL on the road

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_i...&override=true

Now my thing about saying he wont do these things is it implies that he was asked to do them and he couldnt . It seems to me that the bears never really put any development time into Orton but every time they gave him a little bit of room to grow he did .

Against the eagles he opens up the first couple of possessions with a no huddle and proceeds to shreds the Eagles . The Bears have a almost turnover at the end of the first half and come out in the second half ultraconservative trying not lose instead of expanding the attack . Now admittedly they lost Lloyd their most productive receiver up until that point in the first half.

When I think about Orton and the Bears it looks to me as if they try to lump him in with the rest of the QB's in their sordid history to hide the fact that maybe they shouldve been paying a little bit more attention to his development after 4 seasons .

Some of this stuff is essentially as if orton was a chef and the bears said Orton was a good chef but he couldnt bake a cake so we will get Cutler everyone knows he makes good cake and could even get better at it .

Well now Orton is saying to himself WTH THE NEVER ASKED ME TO BAKE A CAKE they told me they were only interested in pies . But Im very capable of baking a cake but I never got the chance.

This doesnt mean I think Orton is gonna be a superstar but its hard to say what he cant do when hes never been asked to do it on this level.From the small samples we have he seems very capable of doing some of the things in doubt but the team was never committed to him enough in that area to even try it.

CrazyHorse
04-12-2009, 05:09 PM
Pies and cake?

Lonestar
04-12-2009, 09:26 PM
Let me say that I just watched the CHI ATL game and was impressed with Kyle's game management.. threw the ball way when he needed to and .. it was a great two minute drill and the fourth quarter was pretty much no huddle for most of their poessions..made some really good throws to win the game and then have it ripped away with two plays in the 11 seconds left..

Considering how bad that OLINE was it is a miracle the forte got more than 35 yards all game..


After seeing the game I feel much better.. as he did not make dangerous throws hit the open man and IMHO had he had better "hands" receivers would have won that one going away.. While I did not see the final stats on it I do not think he had any turnovers..

anyone else have any comments on the game?

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:30 PM
Let me say that I just watched the CHI ATL game and was impressed with Kyle's game management.. threw the ball way when he needed to and .. it was a great two minute drill and the fourth quarter was pretty much no huddle for most of their poessions..made some really good throws to win the game and then have it ripped away with two plays in the 11 seconds left..

Considering how bad that OLINE was it is a miracle the forte got more than 35 yards all game..


After seeing the game I feel much better.. as he did not make dangerous throws hit the open man and IMHO had he had better "hands" receivers would have won that one going away.. While I did not see the final stats on it I do not think he had any turnovers..

anyone else have any comments on the game?

spam...

Lonestar
04-12-2009, 09:31 PM
spam...

note the title of the thread..

2009 Season: Orton Vs. Cutler

try again..

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:32 PM
note the title of the thread..

2009 Season: Orton Vs. Cutler

try again..

dude you posted that in 3 threads :lol:

MOtorboat
04-12-2009, 09:32 PM
note the title of the thread..

2009 Season: Orton Vs. Cutler

try again..

The title of the thread is misleading.

The actual comparison is Cutler vs. Orton, two first round-picks and a third-round pick.

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:34 PM
The title of the thread is misleading.

The actual comparison is Cutler vs. Orton, two first round-picks and a third-round pick.

This is the part when you say "Orton 21-12, Cutler 17-20"

MOtorboat
04-12-2009, 09:37 PM
This is the part when you say "Orton 21-12, Cutler 17-20"

:laugh:

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:39 PM
:laugh:

Wait...my mistake.

This is the part when I mention our horrible defense and you say "Excuses"...

MOtorboat
04-12-2009, 09:41 PM
Wait...my mistake.

This is the part when I mention our horrible defense and you say "Excuses"...

lol, exactly.

17-20 speaks for itself.

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:42 PM
lol, exactly.

17-20 speaks for itself.

Yeah. And we all know Rex Grossman's 23-12 record, 2 division championships, and a Super Bowl appearance tells the entire story :coffee:

MOtorboat
04-12-2009, 09:44 PM
Yeah. And we all know Rex Grossman's 23-12 record, 2 division championships, and a Super Bowl appearance tells the entire story :coffee:

I know, we should have traded for him, and not Orton.

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:48 PM
I know, we should have traded for him, and not Orton.

You don't trade for a free agent :rolleyes:

Lonestar
04-12-2009, 09:50 PM
I know, we should have traded for him, and not Orton.


Yet when they both had experience Orton clearly beat grossman out for the starters job which he held until he was injured.... in 2008..

Did I miss something?

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:52 PM
Yet when they both had experience Orton clearly beat grossman out for the starters job which he held until he was injured.... in 2008..

Did I miss something?

Yeah. MB says that a Quarterback's record "speaks for itself". He says that a Quarterback is as good as his record, no matter what other conditions affect it (such as a shitty defense).

So with his logic, Rex Grossman is a better Quarterback than Jay Cutler, Kyle Orton, Joe Flacco, and Matt Ryan :werd:

MOtorboat
04-12-2009, 09:54 PM
Yeah. MB says that a Quarterback's record "speaks for itself". He says that a Quarterback is as good as his record, no matter what other conditions affect it (such as a shitty defense).

So with his logic, Rex Grossman is a better Quarterback than Jay Cutler, Kyle Orton, Joe Flacco, and Matt Ryan :werd:

Ironically...the only quarterback among those to play in the Super Bowl is Rex Grossman.

Shit...maybe I've got a point. :rolleyes:

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:54 PM
Ironically...the only quarterback among those to play in the Super Bowl is Rex Grossman.

Shit...maybe I've got a point. :rolleyes:

Really? I guess Rex Grossman got to a Super Bowl all by himself because his superior play and unbelievable quarterbacking skills :rolleyes:

Great point :coffee:

topscribe
04-12-2009, 09:56 PM
Yet when they both had experience Orton clearly beat grossman out for the starters job which he held until he was injured.... in 2008..

Did I miss something?

Moreover, when Orton beat Grossman out at the beginning of the 2008 season,
Orton was beginning his second year of being actually on the field. So Grossman
had more experience recently than Orton.

-----

MOtorboat
04-12-2009, 09:56 PM
Really? I guess Rex Grossman got to a Super Bowl all by himself because his superior play and unbelievable quarterbacking skills :rolleyes:

Great point :coffee:

Yup, because Dan Marino is exemplary of this. :rolleyes:

getlynched47
04-12-2009, 09:58 PM
Yup, because Dan Marino is exemplary of this. :rolleyes:

I'm sure Rex Grossman's defense had nothing to do with him going to the Super Bowl.

and I'm sure that Jay Cutler's defense had nothing to do with him not having a winning record :rolleyes:

Did I forget to mention that you made a great point? :rolleyes:

Great point :coffee:

Owned :werd:

LoyalSoldier
04-12-2009, 11:49 PM
Ironically...the only quarterback among those to play in the Super Bowl is Rex Grossman.

Shit...maybe I've got a point. :rolleyes:

And if you people thought Cutler was bad with the turnovers, man Grossman was averaging 4 a game.

Simple Jaded
04-13-2009, 12:01 AM
With a great offensive mind like The Immortal Doogie McDenials HC (I bet he can burp his ABC's, too), how could you not go with Kyle Orton (or whichever QB wins the starting job in Denver)?

Think positive people.......Championship.......

Simple Jaded
04-13-2009, 12:05 AM
Btw, Rex Grossman is an unrestricted free agent, hopefully Doogie at least knew that.......

bcbronc
04-13-2009, 02:53 AM
Orton wont be expected to just manage games. Not with Denver's defense. If our QB is just "managing" then Denver is losing. Beyond already putting too much stock in Orton as a player, this is one of the bigger errors in assessing how the QBs are going to be playing. If teams are rocking us for thirty a game again, and Orton is doing his best Trent Dilfer impression, then 7-2 is a pipe dream -- rather, wishful thinking (eh, eh?). We're gonna need at least some play from the QB position to stay remotely relevant. LoyalSoldier's thread about crap defenses and win-loss records, regardless of offensive firepower, should be (and what I am) expecting if the otherside of the ball doesn't improve, QB managing or not.

I think the stats that have been posted thread to thread have been pretty conclusive that no QB wins if there team is giving up 30 points. they've also shown that *most* starting QBs will have a good record when they're team gives up less than 21. smarter, safer QB play can *help* with the former; 3 early picks can help with the latter.




Pat threw the dice with all his money on the table. Now, he seems not to want to uncover his eyes to see whether he won or lost. He has once again distanced himself from the operations of the team with the exception of a few phone calls and an interview in which he couln't remember much of his past history. McKid didn't even contact him regarding whether to attempt to trade the franchise QB- or at least that is the party line.

Dean, I think you are looking at that through the wrong lens. It seemed pretty clearly stated to me that McX would have had to get Bowlen to sign off on any deal before it happened. the reason the Cassel deal didn't get on Bowlen's desk wasn't because he wasn't involved, it's just because it didn't get far enough along.

the more I watch and read on Orton, the happier I am with him. If he can get the ball into our play-makers' hands we'll have a productive offense. no diss on Chicago, but this is the best offense--players and coaches--Orton's played in as a pro. I'm expecting a much more efficient offense, less yards but more points.

Simple Jaded
04-13-2009, 03:56 AM
Here's a good opinion from a Bears fan about Orton vs Cutler. Warning...wear your sunglasses JR:D!!

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=141359

"I showed that at the same pace as before he was hurt he would have 3800 yards, 24 TD's and something like 12 picks with a 89 QB rating and 62% completion percentage."

Then reality hit.......Orton finished the season on a 55%, 2736 yd, 18TD and 18 Int pace.......amazing how much a bad ankle effects a QB that couldn't run to save his ass in the first place.......

CrazyHorse
04-13-2009, 08:39 AM
Really? I guess Rex Grossman got to a Super Bowl all by himself because his superior play and unbelievable quarterbacking skills :rolleyes:

Great point :coffee:

Trent Dilfer

Actually Trent Dilfer is a good case that you can't win a Superbowl with an average QB unless you have one of the best defenses of all time.
If you look at the Quarterbacks that have been in the Superbowl in recent years most of them have been among the best in the League.

TXBRONC
04-13-2009, 09:40 AM
I think the stats that have been posted thread to thread have been pretty conclusive that no QB wins if there team is giving up 30 points. they've also shown that *most* starting QBs will have a good record when they're team gives up less than 21. smarter, safer QB play can *help* with the former; 3 early picks can help with the latter.



Dean, I think you are looking at that through the wrong lens. It seemed pretty clearly stated to me that McX would have had to get Bowlen to sign off on any deal before it happened. the reason the Cassel deal didn't get on Bowlen's desk wasn't because he wasn't involved, it's just because it didn't get far enough along.

the more I watch and read on Orton, the happier I am with him. If he can get the ball into our play-makers' hands we'll have a productive offense. no diss on Chicago, but this is the best offense--players and coaches--Orton's played in as a pro. I'm expecting a much more efficient offense, less yards but more points.

I think Dean has great understanding of the game more so than a lot of people who frequent this board. Also unless you were in the room at the time when McDaniels fielding questions telephone calls about trading Jay there is nothing that is pretty clear. There isn't a person here who can answer for fact that McDaniels was just a "wall flower" when came talks about trading Jay initially. Adam Schefter never backed off his story that the Broncos were actively seeking to trade Jay for Cassel intiallly. Have ever stop to think that if Orton was so damn great why did the Bears traded him away?

Watchthemiddle
04-13-2009, 09:52 AM
Who's Jay Cutler?

:coffee:

TXBRONC
04-13-2009, 09:53 AM
Who's Jay Cutler?

:coffee:

Who's Jake Plummer? :coffee: :coffee:

topscribe
04-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Who's Jay Cutler?

:coffee:


Whose Jake Plummer? :coffee: :coffee:

Hmmm . . . let me see here. One of you is asking who's Jake Plummer, and the
other is asking, if you figure out who's Jake Plummer, then whose is he. Right? :confused:

-----

TXBRONC
04-13-2009, 12:00 PM
Hmmm . . . let me see here. One of you is asking who's Jake Plummer, and the
other is asking, if you figure out who's Jake Plummer, then whose is he. Right? :confused:

-----

I went back edited my post, I hope that will help me get a better grade on my homework Mr. Top. :D

broncfn90
04-13-2009, 12:16 PM
its not even a question Cutler will be better for many reasons

1. playing for his home team
2. he will make them better
3. he will lead them to the playoffs

orton is going to do well here only cuz our offense is good

powderaddict
04-13-2009, 12:45 PM
Short term, I'd have to say Cutler. But, they have no receivers, their O-line is bad (and uncertain with Williams never playing a down in the NFL and coming off surgery), and an aging defense. The Bears defense last year was not the lights out defense that carried the team to the superbowl. But, personnel wise, they are still much better off than the Broncos, but they do need to reload. And, with Denver owning both of the Bears next 2 first round picks, and their 3rd this year, they'll have to draft very, very good in the later rounds to shore up these areas.

Long term, I'd have to say Orton. The Broncos have one of the best, if not the best, young o-lines, a great group of young WR's, and the ammo to really improve the defense long-term, and build a great, young team if they draft well.

Lonestar
04-13-2009, 02:11 PM
Short term, I'd have to say Cutler. But, they have no receivers, their O-line is bad (and uncertain with Williams never playing a down in the NFL and coming off surgery), and an aging defense. The Bears defense last year was not the lights out defense that carried the team to the superbowl. But, personnel wise, they are still much better off than the Broncos, but they do need to reload. And, with Denver owning both of the Bears next 2 first round picks, and their 3rd this year, they'll have to draft very, very good in the later rounds to shore up these areas.

Long term, I'd have to say Orton. The Broncos have one of the best, if not the best, young o-lines, a great group of young WR's, and the ammo to really improve the defense long-term, and build a great, young team if they draft well.



but, but, but, but, but they will not have the rocket armed probowler to save there ass this year like he did last year..

Nomad
04-13-2009, 02:16 PM
but, but, but, but, but they will not have the rocket armed probowler to save there ass this year like he did last year..

Here you go Jr! Cutler's going to have something new to throw to:D

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/roster_depleted_bears_sign?utm_source=a-section

LoyalSoldier
04-13-2009, 02:20 PM
I would take a team with a great QB and no receivers over a team with no QB and great WR.

TXBRONC
04-13-2009, 02:27 PM
Short term, I'd have to say Cutler. But, they have no receivers, their O-line is bad (and uncertain with Williams never playing a down in the NFL and coming off surgery), and an aging defense. The Bears defense last year was not the lights out defense that carried the team to the superbowl. But, personnel wise, they are still much better off than the Broncos, but they do need to reload. And, with Denver owning both of the Bears next 2 first round picks, and their 3rd this year, they'll have to draft very, very good in the later rounds to shore up these areas.

Long term, I'd have to say Orton. The Broncos have one of the best, if not the best, young o-lines, a great group of young WR's, and the ammo to really improve the defense long-term, and build a great, young team if they draft well.

True Bears defense wasn't lights out but it also wasn't anything like what have had here over the last two years. While Denver does own four number one picks over the next two years the Bears still have they majority of their draft picks, in other words they didn't have mortgage their entire future to get Cutler. So it's not like the Bears can't do anything to build a better offense around Cutler and also fix any problems they have on defense.

powderaddict
04-13-2009, 02:27 PM
but, but, but, but, but they will not have the rocket armed probowler to save there ass this year like he did last year..

They wont, but I hope the rest of the team improves to the point that any hopes of winning does not lie on one person only. Too many times if Cutler had a bad game (as all QB's do), the Broncos really had no shot.

The more I think about this, the more I think this trade will benefit the Broncos long term. Only time will tell though.

powderaddict
04-13-2009, 02:32 PM
True Bears defense wasn't lights out but it also wasn't anything like what have had here over the last two years. While Denver does own four number one picks over the next two years the Bears still have they majority of their draft picks, in other words they didn't have mortgage their entire future to get Cutler. So it's not like the Bears can't do anything to build a better offense around Cutler and also fix any problems they have on defense.

They have the majority of their picks, true, but the Broncos have their best picks. There is a much better chance of drafting an impact player early in the draft than later in the draft.

The Bears last year was good at creating turnovers (which plays into Cutler's strengths), and were decent against the run, but were horrible against the pass. Many of their stars are aging - and while gold can be found in mid-late rounds, it's more likely that those types of impact players are drafted early.

TXBRONC
04-13-2009, 02:53 PM
They have the majority of their picks, true, but the Broncos have their best picks. There is a much better chance of drafting an impact player early in the draft than later in the draft.

The Bears last year was good at creating turnovers (which plays into Cutler's strengths), and were decent against the run, but were horrible against the pass. Many of their stars are aging - and while gold can be found in mid-late rounds, it's more likely that those types of impact players are drafted early.

At this point only in theory do we have the Bears best picks. The Ravens have a lot aging stars on their defense and they still keep playing at a high level.

Also turnovers should be a plus for any starting quarterback. Winning the turnover battle is worth about 3 to 4 victories per year.

jrelway
04-13-2009, 04:07 PM
i would have to say cutler will have a better year. our defense wont be fixed in one year, and i dont think orton will be able to score 20-30 points a game for us.

TXBRONC
04-13-2009, 04:21 PM
i would have to say cutler will have a better year. our defense wont be fixed in one year, and i dont think orton will be able to score 20-30 points a game for us.

I would also look for the Bears to try and find Cutler some more weapons to work with.

powderaddict
04-13-2009, 04:40 PM
I would also look for the Bears to try and find Cutler some more weapons to work with.

I'm sure they will (Pace for example was already signed), but 3/5 of an o-line and an entire WR group isn't built overnight. They need CB's, and need help at other defensive positions as well. There also isn't much depth at RB.

Lonestar
04-13-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm sure they will (Pace for example was already signed), but 3/5 of an o-line and an entire WR group isn't built overnight. They need CB's, and need help at other defensive positions as well. There also isn't much depth at RB.

Is suspect tha Pace is mostly over the hill.. and ceartanily not a long term solution

Peerless
04-13-2009, 05:47 PM
Is suspect tha Pace is mostly over the hill.. and ceartanily not a long term solution

Pace is only 33. That's not "old" or over the hill, especially for a LT position.

If he's healthy (That's the BIGGEST ?), he can still be a top 10 LT.

getlynched47
04-13-2009, 05:49 PM
Pace is only 33. That's not "old" or over the hill, especially for a LT position.

If he's healthy (That's the BIGGEST ?), he can still be a top 10 LT.

I agree. He's still got some left in the tanks, especially since he's been on IR a few times, he's played less games in his NFL career :lol:

turftoad
04-13-2009, 05:56 PM
Is suspect tha Pace is mostly over the hill.. and ceartanily not a long term solution

He can still play at a high level.

I'm sure he's a stopgap until Williams (first rounder last year) is ready for the LT position. He's at RT now. I'm sure they'll find some young guys in a year or two for the future.

Just like our defensive backfield. We need to bring in some young talent for the future.

Lonestar
04-13-2009, 06:01 PM
Pace is only 33. That's not "old" or over the hill, especially for a LT position.

If he's healthy (That's the BIGGEST ?), he can still be a top 10 LT.

he was out there as a FA a long time before being signed that leads me to believe there is not much left in the tank.. or he has been hurt..

OLT are a hot commodity so something had to be wrong..

Lonestar
04-13-2009, 06:05 PM
He can still play at a high level.

I'm sure he's a stopgap until Williams (first rounder last year) is ready for the LT position. He's at RT now. I'm sure they'll find some young guys in a year or two for the future.

Just like our defensive backfield. We need to bring in some young talent for the future.

there is not a position in our defense that I think does not need to be replaced in the draft over the next couple of years.. Unless Barrett, Woodyard, and Larsen are indeed talented and just need seasoning.
It means all but maybe DJ gets replaced and I'm not all that sure DJ will fit into a 3-4 defense..

I see no keepers on the DL that will be stars..

Peerless
04-13-2009, 06:13 PM
he was out there as a FA a long time before being signed that leads me to believe there is not much left in the tank.. or he has been hurt..

OLT are a hot commodity so something had to be wrong..

Maybe. We'll just have to see how he performs.

He sure got a pretty nice contract for a washed up player though.. .:lol:

Lonestar
04-13-2009, 06:15 PM
big reason why I like the extra 3 picks.. Just hope them come up with some starters for late this year As the will be hardened vets next year.. during our playoff run..:laugh:

Having 5 picks before 84 is or should be a GM's idea of HOG heaven.. Three on day one and then two more quick one right off the bat..

We could very well start by years end 6-7 rookies on Defense..

Peerless
04-13-2009, 06:18 PM
The learning curve, especially for a player on the line is going to take a while. The DE/DT position is usually takes the longest to actually "get", so it could be awhile before we even see any HUGE playmaking abilities from the hopeful first round DE's or DT's that we'll be drafting..

EMB6903
04-13-2009, 06:22 PM
The learning curve, especially for a player on the line is going to take a while. The DE/DT position is usually takes the longest to actually "get", so it could be awhile before we even see any HUGE playmaking abilities from the hopeful first round DE's or DT's that we'll be drafting..

ya thats why I still havent given up on Jarvis Moss.... Tons of talent just was never in the right scheme along with the broken leg that set him back an entire year... I see him being a very solid 3-4 linebacker in the future...

Lonestar
04-13-2009, 06:28 PM
ya thats why I still havent given up on Jarvis Moss.... Tons of talent just was never in the right scheme along with the broken leg that set him back an entire year... I see him being a very solid 3-4 linebacker in the future...

let hope your correct but I have zero faith in it happening.. if he does great, if he does not it was just another two wasted DAFT picks on mikeys watch..

Lonestar
04-13-2009, 06:31 PM
The learning curve, especially for a player on the line is going to take a while. The DE/DT position is usually takes the longest to actually "get", so it could be awhile before we even see any HUGE playmaking abilities from the hopeful first round DE's or DT's that we'll be drafting..

I hope they will start them as soon as the BYE week and get them that experience.. Rather have 11 guys runnign around out there learning and making mistake than watching and taking another two years to figure out where the urinals are..