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View Full Version : Just how bad was our defense? Only the 7th worst since 2002



LoyalSoldier
04-10-2009, 12:04 AM
So I decided to see just how bad our defense was.

Now I am cutting the year off at 2002 for scoring since the rule emphasis change the way teams played. Since 2004 there have only been three scoring defenses that were as bad as we were and two of them came from last season (Detriot and St. Louis). Nearly every other team that allowed as much as we did had a record of no greater than 4-12. You have to go back to the 2001 Rams to find a team with a winning record. Out of 192 defenses that were fielded between 2002 and 2008, only 6 were worse!

An interesting note is that the Colts in 2001 were second in scoring and last in points allowed, they went 6-10 that year.

Now here is the part that really shows you how bad we were. Since 2002 there is only one team who had fewer takeaways than we did and that was the 2006 Redskins. In fact our 13 was way below the average since most teams had at least 18.

So in short, this just confirms what we knew all along. I can only hope we can fix this mess because the offense isn't going to be a high scoring one. We need a defense that can at least be respectable.

Shazam!
04-10-2009, 12:45 AM
It was so bad it made the '94 Broncos look like worldbeaters. I prayed I'd never have to see a Denver defense as bad as that one was.

red98
04-10-2009, 12:55 AM
Even without quoting stats I can confidently say the Broncos 2008 defense
was the suckiest suck suck of a suck sucky defense ever.


Also they sucked

honz
04-10-2009, 01:07 AM
The defense would have been much better if it weren't for Jay Cutler.

atwater27
04-10-2009, 01:10 AM
The defense would have been much better if it weren't for Jay Cutler.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

red98
04-10-2009, 01:10 AM
The defense would have been much better if it weren't for Jay Cutler.

JC is the cause of all the world's problems.

atwater27
04-10-2009, 01:11 AM
JC is the cause of all the world's problems.

I heard Jay Cutty and George Bush got together, planned and executed Hurricane Katrina.

JONtheBRONCO
04-10-2009, 01:11 AM
The defense would have been much better if it weren't for Jay Cutler.

Yeah maybe if he didn't fumble the ball, and throw crucial picks they could get a break once in a while. Glad thats not our problem anymore...

:D

atwater27
04-10-2009, 01:12 AM
Yeah maybe if he didn't fumble the ball, and throw crucial picks they could get a break once in a while. Glad thats not our problem anymore...

:D
You are right. We have much, much worse problems to deal with now. And for several years at least.:welcome:

LoyalSoldier
04-10-2009, 01:15 AM
The defense would have been much better if it weren't for Jay Cutler.

I really hope that was sarcasm

red98
04-10-2009, 01:35 AM
I really hope that was sarcasm

Trust me, Honz has a plan...All will be revealed...

LoyalSoldier
04-10-2009, 01:36 AM
Trust me, Honz has a plan...All will be revealed...

Last time someone said that I wasn't able to eat for a week. Man that was gross.

red98
04-10-2009, 01:40 AM
Last time someone said that I wasn't able to eat for a week. Man that was gross.

Oh my, hadn't thought of that, my apologies.

Also, please don't provide the details :D

Dirk
04-10-2009, 05:13 AM
So in short, this just confirms what we knew all along.

Yeah...the D sucked! :beer: for doing the research! :salute:

broncofaninfla
04-10-2009, 07:16 AM
I'd say that was the worst defense I have ever seen in Denver. Flat out embarrasing.

muse
04-10-2009, 07:52 AM
Football Outsiders ranked us as the 2nd worst D of the last decade, behind this year's Lions D.

I knew Bob Slowik wasn't going to be a world beater as a DC and expected a low 20s D, but I never expected us to be *that* awful.

Hobe
04-10-2009, 08:06 AM
The '08 Broncos defense cost Shanny his job.

Superchop 7
04-10-2009, 08:55 AM
Last year it was linebacking.

This year it will be d-line.

We really screwed the pooch in FA, we needed d-line.....so we signed safeties and RB?

Unbelievable.

If I'm KC or Oakland, I make damn sure Raji is off the board by the time it's our pick.

Then McKids plans are screwed.

Had we done the smart thing......(fix d-line via FA)

We could easily have Rey, Cush, W Williams, and Delmas starting next year.

Somebody grabs Cush ? grab Laurinitis

Somebody grabs Delmas ? grab Chung

We could be loaded with young talent and nobody could stop us.

Instead we will be reaching and finding "busts" to fix a problem that should have already been fixed.

But hey......if you "NEED" a longsnapper............thats what is important.

MOtorboat
04-10-2009, 08:57 AM
Last year it was linebacking.

This year it will be d-line.

We really screwed the pooch in FA, we needed d-line.....so we signed safeties and RB?

Unbelievable.

Who were you expecting to get?

CoachChaz
04-10-2009, 09:00 AM
The '08 Broncos defense cost Shanny his job.

Which means Shanny cost himself his job

Superchop 7
04-10-2009, 09:55 AM
Please look at the Salary thread.

Rodgers salary this year is 2.4 million (6 mil roster bonus)

Canty signed for 7 mil per year (avg)

Now ask yourself.....

Bly......or......Canty-Rodgers ?

MOtorboat
04-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Please look at the Salary thread.

Rodgers salary this year is 2.4 million (6 mil roster bonus)

Canty signed for 7 mil per year (avg)

Now ask yourself.....

Bly......or......Canty-Rodgers ?

Canty signed in his home town. I don't think he was a possibility.

Shaun Rogers is a member of the Cleveland Browns.

Bly is no longer a Bronco.

Superchop 7
04-10-2009, 10:29 AM
Your right, Canty would have never signed anywhere else, puhleeze.

Rodgers wants out, Cleveland wants him gone, make a fair trade, re-write the contract with some incentives, and you have a happy motivated dominant DT.

Thats over 100 tackles last year combined.

Yes BLY is gone, it was a financial comparison.

Keep in mind, we will be paying guaranteed money to rookies anyway.

But hey,

If you think our d-line is just fine.....???

So be it.

I'll let the games decide.

MOtorboat
04-10-2009, 10:56 AM
If you think our d-line is just fine.....???

So be it.

No, I don't think it is, but I also don't think that there was much out there in free agency...and if they wanted Shaun Rogers gone as bad as you think, then they probably would have already traded him. Plus, we haven't even got to the draft, there still may be other trades made.

If we head into camp without a nose tackle, then fine, lambast away and I'll be lining up right behind you, but it's April 10.

Traveler
04-10-2009, 10:58 AM
The '08 Broncos defense cost Shanny his job.

Check that! Shanahan the GM cost Shanahn the HC his job.

Traveler
04-10-2009, 11:00 AM
Last year it was linebacking.

This year it will be d-line.

We really screwed the pooch in FA, we needed d-line.....so we signed safeties and RB?

Unbelievable.

If I'm KC or Oakland, I make damn sure Raji is off the board by the time it's our pick.

Then McKids plans are screwed.

Had we done the smart thing......(fix d-line via FA)

We could easily have Rey, Cush, W Williams, and Delmas starting next year.

Somebody grabs Cush ? grab Laurinitis

Somebody grabs Delmas ? grab Chung

We could be loaded with young talent and nobody could stop us.

Instead we will be reaching and finding "busts" to fix a problem that should have already been fixed.

But hey......if you "NEED" a longsnapper............thats what is important.


Remind me again just who was available in FA that would have helped us on the DL.

Haynesworth? Olshansky?

Superchop 7
04-10-2009, 10:23 PM
[QUOTE=muse;622701]Football Outsiders ranked us as the 2nd worst D of the last decade, behind this year's Lions D.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________

2nd worst ?

I got kicked off the Broncos boards for saying it was the worst linebacking in the history of pro football.

Obviously, I stand corrected.

My apologies to Nate and the boys, you exceeded my expectations, consider yourselves over-achievers.:second:

Cugel
04-10-2009, 11:11 PM
No, I don't think it is, but I also don't think that there was much out there in free agency...and if they wanted Shaun Rogers gone as bad as you think, then they probably would have already traded him. Plus, we haven't even got to the draft, there still may be other trades made.

If we head into camp without a nose tackle, then fine, lambast away and I'll be lining up right behind you, but it's April 10.

Newsflash: The starting NT is going to be Ron Fields! :coffee:

Unless there is some kind of unexpected trade for a veteran, that's as good as it's going to get - a career backup whom nobody much wanted except Nolan.

A Rookie starting NT? There's not one rookie in the draft who could step right in and start as NT in a 3-4 and do a really good job, probably not even B.J. Raji and he won't be available at #12. . . . if the Broncos even draft a defensive player at that pick instead of taking a QB.

So, if they get someone like Ron Brace (with any pick) he's very probably going to be in the rotation his rookie year behind Ron Fields. And he won't be very good yet either. :coffee:

It took Haloti Ngata 3 years to become the dominating NT he showed in the Ravens playoffs this year. And he was a far superior NT prospect to anyone the Broncos could get in this draft (including Raji). His rookie season? Not much to brag about.

It just takes several years for DL to learn to play the game.

Ex: #1 overall pick DE Mario Williams. People considered him a BUST after his first uninspiring season (2006). Well, he's a dominating DE now just like he was projected to become. It just took him a couple of years to learn the game, like most DL.

And he might be the best DE in years and the next Julius Peppers. Nobody in the draft this year and especially nobody the Broncos could draft at #12 is likely to have that kind of talent.

Whoever the Broncos draft this year to man the DL will NOT be an impact player in 2009! It just doesn't work like that.

That leaves the veterans on the team as the key players on the DL for this season. Only there aren't any good ones.

The Broncos current roster is so bad at DL that it's impossible to even imagine who will start there! Probably at least one rookie and maybe two? Marcus Thomas and someone like Tyson Jackson perhaps if he's available at #12 and they draft him?

Can Marcus Thomas really slide out to DE in the 3-4 and become a good one at a position he's never played? Can he somehow become a good NT? He's never been strong at the point of attack and never commands double-teams. That doesn't make him a great NT prospect. But the Broncos have to hope he blossoms in his 3rd season. A LOT is riding on that!

Can Dumervil or Moss or Crowder play OLB? Who the hell knows? They've never done it before and will have to learn from scratch. According to one Steelers' defensive coach it took their LBs an average of 3-4 years to become really familiar with their system to be really effective in it.

That's just not going to be a pretty picture at all for the defense in 2009. At best some new promising and talented rookies will get some really good coaching from Nolan and start learning their positions this year and become good -- in 2010. :coffee:

NameUsedBefore
04-10-2009, 11:35 PM
So I decided to see just how bad our defense was.

Now I am cutting the year off at 2002 for scoring since the rule emphasis change the way teams played. Since 2004 there have only been three scoring defenses that were as bad as we were and two of them came from last season (Detriot and St. Louis). Nearly every other team that allowed as much as we did had a record of no greater than 4-12. You have to go back to the 2001 Rams to find a team with a winning record. Out of 192 defenses that were fielded between 2002 and 2008, only 6 were worse!

An interesting note is that the Colts in 2001 were second in scoring and last in points allowed, they went 6-10 that year.

Now here is the part that really shows you how bad we were. Since 2002 there is only one team who had fewer takeaways than we did and that was the 2006 Redskins. In fact our 13 was way below the average since most teams had at least 18.

So in short, this just confirms what we knew all along. I can only hope we can fix this mess because the offense isn't going to be a high scoring one. We need a defense that can at least be respectable.

It's okay. We got Kyle Orton. He's 21-12, you know.

Lonestar
04-11-2009, 01:28 AM
So I decided to see just how bad our defense was.

Now I am cutting the year off at 2002 for scoring since the rule emphasis change the way teams played. Since 2004 there have only been three scoring defenses that were as bad as we were and two of them came from last season (Detriot and St. Louis). Nearly every other team that allowed as much as we did had a record of no greater than 4-12. You have to go back to the 2001 Rams to find a team with a winning record. Out of 192 defenses that were fielded between 2002 and 2008, only 6 were worse!

An interesting note is that the Colts in 2001 were second in scoring and last in points allowed, they went 6-10 that year.

Now here is the part that really shows you how bad we were. Since 2002 there is only one team who had fewer takeaways than we did and that was the 2006 Redskins. In fact our 13 was way below the average since most teams had at least 18.

So in short, this just confirms what we knew all along. I can only hope we can fix this mess because the offense isn't going to be a high scoring one. We need a defense that can at least be respectable.

Thanks for putting Numbers to it and some still pine for mikey and company..

Maybe this post needs to be stickied for all those numb nuts that will call for his return mid season 2009..

spikerman
04-11-2009, 12:37 PM
I simply refuse to believe that ANY team has EVER been worse on defense than that monstrosity we had to witness last year.

bullis26
04-11-2009, 01:13 PM
I simply refuse to believe that ANY team has EVER been worse on defense than that monstrosity we had to witness last year.

too bad we werent even the worse defense THAT YEAR

atwater27
04-11-2009, 01:19 PM
too bad we werent even the worse defense THAT YEAR

Let's split hairs, shall we? Would you choose Rosie O'donnel or Roseanne Barr? Nuff said.

bullis26
04-11-2009, 01:19 PM
Remind me again just who was available in FA that would have helped us on the DL.

Haynesworth? Olshansky?

you wanted haynesworth?

The guy has never played nose tackle before, never played a full 16 games before, has gotten himself in trouble before, and people question his love for the game

But that with he's demanded 100 million to play for you, i didnt want this guy.... At a MUCH cheaper cost i would have but nothing close to a 100 million dollar deal

Olshansky i would've loved though

bullis26
04-11-2009, 01:20 PM
Let's split hairs, shall we? Would you choose Rosie O'donnel or Roseanne Barr? Nuff said.

lets split hairs here

would you rather have the broncos defense who actually has some guys on it or the lions defense who has 2 guys on it

"NUFF" said

atwater27
04-11-2009, 01:23 PM
lets split hairs here

would you rather have the broncos defense who actually has some guys on it or the lions defense who has 2 guys on it

"NUFF" said

So you prefer Rosie. Have fun with that.

bullis26
04-11-2009, 01:36 PM
So you prefer Rosie. Have fun with that.

those comparisons are about as bad as they come

Broncolingus
04-11-2009, 01:58 PM
So I decided to see just how bad our defense was.

Now I am cutting the year off at 2002 for scoring since the rule emphasis change the way teams played. Since 2004 there have only been three scoring defenses that were as bad as we were and two of them came from last season (Detriot and St. Louis). Nearly every other team that allowed as much as we did had a record of no greater than 4-12. You have to go back to the 2001 Rams to find a team with a winning record. Out of 192 defenses that were fielded between 2002 and 2008, only 6 were worse!

An interesting note is that the Colts in 2001 were second in scoring and last in points allowed, they went 6-10 that year.

Now here is the part that really shows you how bad we were. Since 2002 there is only one team who had fewer takeaways than we did and that was the 2006 Redskins. In fact our 13 was way below the average since most teams had at least 18.

So in short, this just confirms what we knew all along. I can only hope we can fix this mess because the offense isn't going to be a high scoring one. We need a defense that can at least be respectable.

...and you can pin MOST ALL of that on the weak ass front-four Denver has put on the field for the past 5-7 years.

spikerman
04-11-2009, 02:10 PM
too bad we werent even the worse defense THAT YEAR

I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to see if there is something online about it, but I seem to remember a guy on either NFL Network or ESPN saying something to the effect that because the Broncos' offense was so good that the Broncos' defense could rarely use poor field position as a reason for giving up so many points. The Lions had a good excuse due to their terrible offense. Anyway, by the end, the guy had made a pretty convincing case that the Broncos' "defense" was actually much worse. Of course, I didn't need an analyst to tell me anything I couldn't see with my own eyes.

bullis26
04-11-2009, 02:14 PM
I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to see if there is something online about it, but I seem to remember a guy on either NFL Network or ESPN saying something to the effect that because the Broncos' offense was so good that the Broncos' defense could rarely use poor field position as a reason for giving up so many points. The Lions had a good excuse due to their terrible offense. Anyway, by the end, the guy had made a pretty convincing case that the Broncos' "defense" was actually much worse. Of course, I didn't need an analyst to tell me anything I couldn't see with my own eyes.

i was going by stats, but yes that was very true

I heard a report saying the broncos should just kick onside kicks all the time, that way the broncos atleast have a chance of getting the ball back without the other team getting points :lol:

spikerman
04-11-2009, 02:16 PM
i was going by stats, but yes that was very true

I heard a report saying the broncos should just kick onside kicks all the time, that way the broncos atleast have a chance of getting the ball back without the other team getting points :lol:

I'm with you. I said it before in another post, but I swear that by the end of the season I was actually just hoping the defense could hold the other team to a field goal 'cause there was no doubt the other team was going to score.

Lonestar
04-11-2009, 02:18 PM
I'm not so sure about that. I'll have to see if there is something online about it, but I seem to remember a guy on either NFL Network or ESPN saying something to the effect that because the Broncos' offense was so good that the Broncos' defense could rarely use poor field position as a reason for giving up so many points. The Lions had a good excuse due to their terrible offense. Anyway, by the end, the guy had made a pretty convincing case that the Broncos' "defense" was actually much worse. Of course, I didn't need an analyst to tell me anything I couldn't see with my own eyes.

yet our Offense was not that whippy inside the red zone.. that is the key field position means alot BUT if yo are able to get into position to score in the red zone you can;t turn it over there and have drive killing penalties there..

if you can move the ball inside the twenties, there is only one thing IMO that stops you inside the red zone. That is execution and mental mistakes.. and when you look at who made those mental mistakes almost all of it comes back to one person..

bullis26
04-11-2009, 02:18 PM
I'm with you. I said it before in another post, but I swear that by the end of the season I was actually just hoping the defense could hold the other team to a field goal 'cause there was no doubt the other team was going to score.

haha yeah but asking to hold the other team to a FG was to much to ask of our D, i actually say that on ESPN the onside kick thing

Broncos Mtnman
04-11-2009, 04:05 PM
It was all Cutler's fault.... :coffee:

silkamilkamonico
04-11-2009, 04:26 PM
too bad we werent even the worse defense THAT YEAR

Stats are deceiving.

It was the 26th ranked defense statistically I believe, with being league lastt in turnovers, which equals roughly the worst defense in the NFL.

Kind of like how our "#2 ranked offense" statistically in yards, finished merely average in ability to score points, which means our offense was really somewhere around 10th in the NFL.

Dean
04-12-2009, 10:09 AM
Stats are deceiving.

It was the 26th ranked defense statistically I believe, with being league lastt in turnovers, which equals roughly the worst defense in the NFL.

Kind of like how our "#2 ranked offense" statistically in yards, finished merely average in ability to score points, which means our offense was really somewhere around 10th in the NFL.

Stats are indeed deceiving- including yours. Your statment "merely average in ability to score points" includes points scored by other teams special teams and defense. It omits the extremely poor field position the offense regained possession during the season. Therefore, it doesn't mean "our offense was really somewhere around 10th in the NFL."

Your statement skews stats just as the statement #2 ranked offense does. You just choose to select and omit different stats.

horsepig
04-12-2009, 11:15 AM
The only way stats mean anythuing is in context. If your defense gives uip 400 yards and only 10 points thats a hell of a lot better than my defensethat gave up 250 yards and 34 points. How many times did the offense get 3rd and 4, 3rd and 12? They can run for 100 meaningless yards on 3rd and 12 , who frickin cares. Our defense last year was the worst in the NFL on 3rd down, enough said, ie, worst defense in the league.