A closer look at the the Cutler trade

[turftoad]

A Closer Look At The Cutler Trade
Posted by Mike Florio on April 7, 2009, 10:17 p.m.
Now that several days have passed since the Broncos shipped quarterback Jay Cutler to the Bears, lets take a closer look at what went down, and why.

Both the Bears and the Broncos have reason to be optimistic. The Bears got the first potential franchise quarterback they’ve had since Sid Luckman. And to get the guy they only had to give up a couple of first-round picks and a third-round pick — selections that haven’t exactly yielded a bountiful harvest during the Jerry Angelo era in Chicago.

The Broncos arguably got a lot more than they would have received if Cutler had been shipped to the Lions or the Buccaneers and Matt Cassel had come to Denver.

Cassel played for a year, in a passing game featuring a veteran offensive line and Randy Moss and Wes Welker. Though he might do well on a new team, he’s not nearly as established as Cutler.

Speaking of Cassel, the booty that the Bears sent to Denver for Cutler makes the second-round pick that the Pats got for Cassel seem even more glaring, at first blush. Though Cassel is not Cutler, the gap between them isn’t equivalent to the gulf between a second round pick and two ones and a three.

But one fact that has routinely been overlooked in connection with the Cassel trade is that the Patriots had to move quickly to clear Cassel and his $14.65 million franchise player cap number off the books.

Then there’s linebacker Mike Vrabel, who ended up going to Kansas City with Cassel. He was due to receive a $1 million roster bonus on March 1.

So the Cassel deal had to go down. The Pats already had lost receiver Jabar Gaffney and long snapper Lonie Paxton to Denver in only one day of free agency. New England needed to dump the Cassel and Vrabel cap room so that the team could then keep current players and/or pursue new additions.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, who was a member of the coaching staff in New England until the middle of January, knew or should have known that the Pats needed to move Cassel quickly. But yet the Broncos waited too long to make their move.

And as to the notion that the Broncos merely answered the phone when the Patriots called offering Cassel, we know enough about what really went down to know that the discussions were far more extensive, both between the Broncos and the Patriots — and between the Broncos and Cassel.

As we understand it, the Broncos were aggressively pursuing Cassel, and then when it didn’t happen they tried to make it look like they merely responded to an inquiry that came to them unsolicited.

It went much farther than that, and if the Broncos had gotten their act in gear more quickly, Cassel would be a Bronco, Cutler would be a Buccaneer or a Lion, and the Pats would have an extra first-round pick instead of simply an extra second-round selection.

[CoachChaz]

I want to know how "we know enough about what really went down to know that the discussions were far more extensive".

Who was in the room? Who told him? Give me some sources

[LRtagger]

Didn't Florio report recently that the Chiefs were going to be leaving KC soon??

He then recanted his article less than 4 hours later.

I dont trust a thing this moron writes.

[TXBRONC]

A Closer Look At The Cutler Trade
Posted by Mike Florio on April 7, 2009, 10:17 p.m.
Now that several days have passed since the Broncos shipped quarterback Jay Cutler to the Bears, lets take a closer look at what went down, and why.

Both the Bears and the Broncos have reason to be optimistic. The Bears got the first potential franchise quarterback they’ve had since Sid Luckman. And to get the guy they only had to give up a couple of first-round picks and a third-round pick — selections that haven’t exactly yielded a bountiful harvest during the Jerry Angelo era in Chicago.

The Broncos arguably got a lot more than they would have received if Cutler had been shipped to the Lions or the Buccaneers and Matt Cassel had come to Denver.

Cassel played for a year, in a passing game featuring a veteran offensive line and Randy Moss and Wes Welker. Though he might do well on a new team, he’s not nearly as established as Cutler.

Speaking of Cassel, the booty that the Bears sent to Denver for Cutler makes the second-round pick that the Pats got for Cassel seem even more glaring, at first blush. Though Cassel is not Cutler, the gap between them isn’t equivalent to the gulf between a second round pick and two ones and a three.

But one fact that has routinely been overlooked in connection with the Cassel trade is that the Patriots had to move quickly to clear Cassel and his $14.65 million franchise player cap number off the books.

Then there’s linebacker Mike Vrabel, who ended up going to Kansas City with Cassel. He was due to receive a $1 million roster bonus on March 1.

So the Cassel deal had to go down. The Pats already had lost receiver Jabar Gaffney and long snapper Lonie Paxton to Denver in only one day of free agency. New England needed to dump the Cassel and Vrabel cap room so that the team could then keep current players and/or pursue new additions.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, who was a member of the coaching staff in New England until the middle of January, knew or should have known that the Pats needed to move Cassel quickly. But yet the Broncos waited too long to make their move.

And as to the notion that the Broncos merely answered the phone when the Patriots called offering Cassel, we know enough about what really went down to know that the discussions were far more extensive, both between the Broncos and the Patriots — and between the Broncos and Cassel.

As we understand it, the Broncos were aggressively pursuing Cassel, and then when it didn’t happen they tried to make it look like they merely responded to an inquiry that came to them unsolicited.

It went much farther than that, and if the Broncos had gotten their act in gear more quickly, Cassel would be a Bronco, Cutler would be a Buccaneer or a Lion, and the Pats would have an extra first-round pick instead of simply an extra second-round selection.

Well we will never no for absolute sure just how aggressive McDaniels was wanting to trade Cutler I think there is ample reason believe he wasn't merely a " wall flower" in this whole ordeal.

But that past Jay was dealt away so we have live with what happens from this point on.

[TXBRONC]

Didn't Florio report recently that the Chiefs were going to be leaving KC soon??

He then recanted his article less than 4 hours later.

I dont trust a thing this moron writes.

If it was just Florio I would agree but there are other journalist including Adam Schefter who have said pretty much the same thing.

[Tempus Fugit]

"Others contacted us. We did not initiate the trade calls." That's a paraphrase, because I'm not going to bother posting the actual words, yet again, when they are just ignored. The follow up to receiving those calls could be that the moment the calls came in, the Broncos offered Cutler to every team in the league that called for a Slurpee and a dozen doughnuts in a desperate attempt to get Matt Cassel but it didn't pan out because nobody was willing to give up the jelly doughnut, and it still wouldn't make McDaniels a liar.

Logic: it isn't just for breakfast anymore.

[TXBRONC]

"Others contacted us. We did not initiate the trade calls." That's a paraphrase, because I'm not going to bother posting the actual words, yet again, when they are just ignored. The follow up to receiving those calls could be that the moment the calls came in, the Broncos offered Cutler to every team in the league that called for a Slurpee and a dozen doughnuts in a desperate attempt to get Matt Cassel but it didn't pan out because nobody was willing to give up the jelly doughnut, and it still wouldn't make McDaniels a liar.

Logic: it isn't just for breakfast anymore.

This t looks like speculation to me.

[CoachChaz]

If it was just Florio I would agree but there are other journalist including Adam Schefter who have said pretty much the same thing.

What sells more papers? Another story about a prima donna player being a baby...or a story about a team trying to trade away a "Pro Bowl" QB?

[BroncoJoe]

Reporters are pissed the story is over. Nothing more than trying to keep it alive, IMO.

[turftoad]

Didn't Florio report recently that the Chiefs were going to be leaving KC soon??

He then recanted his article less than 4 hours later.

I dont trust a thing this moron writes.

KC was actually in danger of losing the Chiefs. That was no rumor, but fact.

I used to think the same about Florio however, as he's come into the national limelight a bit more, he's gotten more credible IMO.

[Rex]

KC was actually in danger of losing the Chiefs. That was no rumor, but fact.

I used to think the same about Florio however, as he's come into the national limelight a bit more, he's gotten more credible IMO.

there was a 0.0005% chance of them leaving KC.

[turftoad]

there was a 0.0005% chance of them leaving KC.

So.............. you're sayin there was a chance then. :D

JK, there were many, many articles and a bunch of discussion about it. It wasn't just Florio talking about it.

[TXBRONC]

What sells more papers? Another story about a prima donna player being a baby...or a story about a team trying to trade away a "Pro Bowl" QB?

Hey according some people if Schefter reported it has to be true. Besides that he works for NFLN which is owned by the NFL therefore get all real information.

Again we'll never know the full story, and right now it's a moot point.

[TXBRONC]

Reporters are pissed the story is over. Nothing more than trying to keep it alive, IMO.

Were you not the one said NFLN get preferential treatment because they are owned by the NFL? Schefter who still for NFLN as far as I know, was the first to break this story.

But as I said to Chaz it doesn't really matter now.

[BroncoJoe]

Were you not the one said NFLN get preferential treatment because they are owned by the NFL? Schefter who still for NFLN as far as I know, was the first to break this story.

But as I said to Chaz it doesn't really matter now.

True, it really doesn't matter anymore, and also true I said that about the NFLN.

That being said, I also believe if it was a high priority for McDaniels to trade Cutler and get Cassel, it would have happened.

JMO.

[Tempus Fugit]

"Others contacted us. We did not initiate the trade calls." That's a paraphrase, because I'm not going to bother posting the actual words, yet again, when they are just ignored. The follow up to receiving those calls could be that the moment the calls came in, the Broncos offered Cutler to every team in the league that called for a Slurpee and a dozen doughnuts in a desperate attempt to get Matt Cassel but it didn't pan out because nobody was willing to give up the jelly doughnut, and it still wouldn't make McDaniels a liar.

Logic: it isn't just for breakfast anymore.


This t looks like speculation to me.

Well, it's an "even if - then" statement, so misreading it could lead you to claim that it's speculation. The actual speculation is that McDaniels lied, since that has not been proven.

On the other hand, either Cutler lied or he had a psychotic break, since he issued a formal trade request and then said he didn't want to be traded. This has been one of the great ironies of this whole situation: the known liar continues to be defended by people claiming that McDaniels' lying is the problem.

What's missed in all this is a pair of information nuggets, and their likely meaning, that Cutler's Criers keep ignoring:

1.) McDaniels bounced around the idea of the trade, which might well have meant that McDaniels thought he had a better comfort zone and chance to win with Matt Cassel than with Jay Cutler. Also, either Xanders and/or Bowlen agreed with the idea in principle or they had absolutely no oversight of McDaniels.

2.) Either Cutler acted like such a petulant child that Bowlen got fed up with him and got rid of him, or Bowlen was willing to piss away his reputation by willingly lying about attempts to contact Cutler and everything else that went on. Interestingly, while "Short Bus" Cook denied the larger point about attempts to contact Cutler, he conceded that Cutler had failed to return one of HIS calls about the situation after he had been contacted by the team trying to talk to Cutler.

[LRtagger]

kc was actually in danger of losing the chiefs. That was no rumor, but fact.

I used to think the same about florio however, as he's come into the national limelight a bit more, he's gotten more credible imo.




he is the king of the rumor mill. :d


bonerfied!!!!!

[TXBRONC]

True, it really doesn't matter anymore, and also true I said that about the NFLN.

That being said, I also believe if it was a high priority for McDaniels to trade Cutler and get Cassel, it would have happened.

JMO.

I think it would have depended on what they would have gotten along with Cassel.

[turftoad]

bonerfied!!!!!

Like I said, I used to think the same thing.

[MadMax]

I want to know how "we know enough about what really went down to know that the discussions were far more extensive".

Who was in the room? Who told him? Give me some sources

Stole the words out of my mouth Coach, when I see language like "extensive" and "aggressively pursued" my eyes start to cloud over. I mean wtf does that mean exactly. McD pursued it agressively huh, did he call Bill B. once every five minutes and scream at him, did he call other teams and threaten to kick their ass if they traded for Cassel? "extensive"? Did McD reserve a convention center and several hotel room floors to hold a 2 week trade discussion?

Listen Florio's not the first person to use this language but don't you think if his knowledge actually pertained to known details of the trade he would just give us those instead this crap. The reason we haven't heard anything substantial is because nobody does and probably ever will know. That language is just the most alarmist Florio and his ilk can get without getting sued for libel.

[LRtagger]

Like I said, I used to think the same thing.

That was only a month ago you SOB

[turftoad]

That was only a month ago you SOB

I know. But............ since then, he's been reporting for the Sporting News and being interviewed on NFLNetwork. NFLNetwork wants his opinion and inside scoop on stuff. That says something right there.
I think he's cleaned up his act a little and need to or else no Sporting News or NFLNetwork.

[LRtagger]

turf you are starting to sound like BG7.

Jamie Dukes does a lot of work for NFLN too but hes a flippin moron.

PrimeTime works for NFLN too and he said Cutler was being a little bitch.

Either way I still think Florio is a moron and only gets any credibility because he reports controversal things whether they are true or false.

Peter King is a sr writer for SI and host on "Inside the NFL" and is friends with Cutler...and he reported Cutler asked for a trade right when Shanny was fired. I don't necessarily believe King either, but Florio is fooling himself if he thinks hes the only reporter that claims to have the inside scoop. Frankly, IMO all of these reports are a cluster**** of rumors and lies and no one really knows exactly what happened except J-Mac and Xman.

[Buff]

I like Jamie Dukes.

Scott Hastings also called Cutler a little bitch... And in retrospect, he was right.

[LRtagger]

I like Jamie Dukes.

Scott Hastings also called Cutler a little bitch... And in retrospect, he was right.

Dukes is a good TV personality as far as getting ratings i guess, but the dude is a moron.

ala Terry Bradshaw, Charles Barkley, Emmitt Smith etc.

[turftoad]

turf you are starting to sound like BG7.

Jamie Dukes does a lot of work for NFLN too but hes a flippin moron.

PrimeTime works for NFLN too and he said Cutler was being a little bitch.

Either way I still think Florio is a moron and only gets any credibility because he reports controversal things whether they are true or false.

Peter King is a sr writer for SI and host on "Inside the NFL" and is friends with Cutler...and he reported Cutler asked for a trade right when Shanny was fired. I don't necessarily believe King either, but Florio is fooling himself if he thinks hes the only reporter that claims to have the inside scoop. Frankly, IMO all of these reports are a cluster**** of rumors and lies and no one really knows exactly what happened except J-Mac and Xman.

I can agree with some of this but.............. BG7 though? :tsk:

All I was trying to say is that with the more credible media he's reporting for, the more credible his opiniions have gotten to be. Not so far fetched rumors and such as thehy used to be.
Anyway, I don't agree with everything he says or writes but I do find him entertaining. He throws out a lot of food for thought.

Now, edit the BG7 thing. lol

[LRtagger]

Lmao

[Dortoh]

Didn't Florio report recently that the Chiefs were going to be leaving KC soon??

He then recanted his article less than 4 hours later.

I dont trust a thing this moron writes.

Florio has been caught red handed making shit up so many times I am honestly stunned that he has a job.

[Buff]

Dukes is a good TV personality as far as getting ratings i guess, but the dude is a moron.

ala Terry Bradshaw, Charles Barkley, Emmitt Smith etc.

Chuck Barkley and Jamie Dukes are far better at their jobs than Bradshaw or Emmitt...

Emmitt is in his own league of sucking, he's like the worst broadcaster in the history of the world. Terry sucks, but not quite as bad...

I actually like hearing what the other two have to say.

[denver lover 85]

what i was wondering how in the world does he know about this.... were you in the room or what.........????

[denver lover 85]

oh i wanted to say hi..... so ummm..... HI....

[Lonestar]

oh i wanted to say hi..... so ummm..... HI....


there is a forum for introducing yourself..

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4

please go there and be welcomed:salute: or roasted ..:D

[Broncolingus]

...yet another 'stir-the-pot' article.

...yawn...

[nevcraw]

I want to know how "we know enough about what really went down to know that the discussions were far more extensive".

Who was in the room? Who told him? Give me some sources

I don't belive anything that "the man" doesn't tell me.. everone else are whiny liars..

[Cugel]

Well, it's an "even if - then" statement, so misreading it could lead you to claim that it's speculation. The actual speculation is that McDaniels lied, since that has not been proven.

What's missed in all this is a pair of information nuggets, and their likely meaning, that Cutler's Criers keep ignoring:

1.) McDaniels bounced around the idea of the trade, which might well have meant that McDaniels thought he had a better comfort zone and chance to win with Matt Cassel than with Jay Cutler. Also, either Xanders and/or Bowlen agreed with the idea in principle or they had absolutely no oversight of McDaniels.

2.) Either Cutler acted like such a petulant child that Bowlen got fed up with him and got rid of him, or Bowlen was willing to piss away his reputation by willingly lying about attempts to contact Cutler and everything else that went on. Interestingly, while "Short Bus" Cook denied the larger point about attempts to contact Cutler, he conceded that Cutler had failed to return one of HIS calls about the situation after he had been contacted by the team trying to talk to Cutler.

1. A lie by omission is still a lie! Remember: "That depends on what the definition of 'is' is." :coffee: Josh McDaniels denied that HE ever had trade talks with the Patriots. Well, so what? He never denied that Brian Xanders had trade discussions with them, and HE's the GM (at least in theory although he appears to be just as much a powerless sock-puppet as Ted Sundquist at this point). Who would normally hold the trade discussions? The Coach or the GM?

But, it's quite clear that the McDaniels wanted to trade Jay Cutler to the Bucs or Lions and get Matt Cassel in return. All statements to the contrary are just transparent lies. Just look at the facts:

2. What we know is that several teams approached the Patriots with IDENTICAL TRADE OFFERS, all *coincidentally* involving a three-way deal for Matt Cassel in exchange for a 1st round pick.

So, how exactly did that happen if Cutler wasn't being dangled? :coffee:

Is there anybody stupid enough to think these teams were going out on a limb to try and trade a 1st round pick for Matt Cassel when they didn't even have a deal with Denver for Cutler? They were what? Just speculating? "Maybe if we trade our 1st round pick for Cassel, we can get the Broncos to give us Jay Cutler in exchange?" That's so idiotic a scenario that not even the most retarded could possibly believe it.

They MUST have had a deal in place in principle, or else they would NEVER have offered their picks!

McDaniels offers the most feeble lies (evasions designed to deceive are also lies): "I never even approached Pat Bowlen with the deal." Well, the IMPLICATION is that there wasn't a serious deal in place. But, we know from the heated negotiations with TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS and the Patriots that SOME KIND OF DEAL was in place.

Maybe they only go to Pat when they have a final deal. Maybe they discussed it in general terms back in January. Maybe McDaniels is just lying. We don't know. But his story that Pat Bowlen wasn't involved in all this is just fanciful -- unless you want to believe that Bowlen is just as out of touch as he was with Mike Shanahan!

What would be the POINT of "having discussions" about trading Cutler unless you first cleared at least the IDEA that Cutler was "tradeable" with Pat Bowlen? He might veto the idea for all they knew -- unless somehow they knew differently! How could that be unless they somehow discussed it with him?

Remember these other teams didn't WANT Matt Cassel for themselves! Nobody in the NFL outside of McDaniels thought Cassel was worth a 1st round pick! IN fact, nobody outside the Chiefs offered as much as a 2nd round pick! And NOBODY has ever suggested the Lions or Bucs had any interest in Cassel.

He's a one-year wonder, who did well enough to win 11 games, but still fail to make the playoffs with a team that won 18 and went to the SB the year before! That's not exactly a ringing endorsement! He lost 7 more games than they lost the previous season! :coffee:

Bottom Line: Why were these teams wasting their time trying to get the Patriots to agree to the trade if they didn't want Cassel and didn't have a deal with the Broncos! If that were true and they'd succeeded, they'd have been stuck giving up their #1 pick for a guy they didn't think was worth it and may not even have wanted at all!

ERGO: McDaniels entire story falls to the ground. It's just not remotely believable -- and everybody in the press and around the NFL assumes that he's covering up.

Notice that most fans now focus on the Jay Cutler hold-out and conveniently forget the nonsense that led up to it!

1. Why did McDaniels want to trade Cutler in the first place?

and

2. Why did he refuse to come clean about it instead of pretending "nothing happened."

It was that DENIAL and his refusal to offer Jay any commitment for the future that made him want to be traded after his meeting with Josh: "I want you to be my QB of the future" instead of "Nobody's untradeable, and nobody can predict the future." :coffee:

Now you can all get back to your regularly scheduled Jay-bashing.

[Tempus Fugit]

1. A lie by omission is still a lie! Remember: "That depends on what the definition of 'is' is." :coffee: Josh McDaniels denied that HE ever had trade talks with the Patriots. Well, so what? He never denied that Brian Xanders had trade discussions with them, and HE's the GM (at least in theory although he appears to be just as much a powerless sock-puppet as Ted Sundquist at this point). Who would normally hold the trade discussions? The Coach or the GM?

A "lie by omission" is not automatically still a lie. It depends on how the question being responded to is framed.


But, it's quite clear that the McDaniels wanted to trade Jay Cutler to the Bucs or Lions and get Matt Cassel in return. All statements to the contrary are just transparent lies. Just look at the facts:

2. What we know is that several teams approached the Patriots with IDENTICAL TRADE OFFERS, all *coincidentally* involving a three-way deal for Matt Cassel in exchange for a 1st round pick.

So, how exactly did that happen if Cutler wasn't being dangled? :coffee:

Ummm.... this is well covered territory. Other teams contacted the Broncos. I mean, you do grasp the difference between me calling you and asking if I can take your wife/girlfriend out on a date and you calling me and offering your wife/girlfriend to me for a date, right? One generally flatters your wife/girlfriend immensely while the other leads to you being single.


Is there anybody stupid enough to think these teams were going out on a limb to try and trade a 1st round pick for Matt Cassel when they didn't even have a deal with Denver for Cutler? They were what? Just speculating? "Maybe if we trade our 1st round pick for Cassel, we can get the Broncos to give us Jay Cutler in exchange?" That's so idiotic a scenario that not even the most retarded could possibly believe it.

They MUST have had a deal in place in principle, or else they would NEVER have offered their picks!

Except that, to my knowledge, every single party involved has said that no firm offers were made. Not every story is destined for the "X Files".


McDaniels offers the most feeble lies (evasions designed to deceive are also lies): "I never even approached Pat Bowlen with the deal." Well, the IMPLICATION is that there wasn't a serious deal in place. But, we know from the heated negotiations with TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS and the Patriots that SOME KIND OF DEAL was in place.

Maybe they only go to Pat when they have a final deal. Maybe they discussed it in general terms back in January. Maybe McDaniels is just lying. We don't know. But his story that Pat Bowlen wasn't involved in all this is just fanciful -- unless you want to believe that Bowlen is just as out of touch as he was with Mike Shanahan!

Of course, what absolutely kills your theory is that Belichick's already explained how the deal for Cassel to the Chiefs went down with comparatively little compensation. The Patriots called everyone, including the Broncos, and found very little interest. It was only after the trade was being finalized that the other offers were even mentioned, and they weren't firm "player for pick and/or player" type of deals, but were nebulous 3-team deals with none of the details worked out.


What would be the POINT of "having discussions" about trading Cutler unless you first cleared at least the IDEA that Cutler was "tradeable" with Pat Bowlen? He might veto the idea for all they knew -- unless somehow they knew differently! How could that be unless they somehow discussed it with him?

Remember these other teams didn't WANT Matt Cassel for themselves! Nobody in the NFL outside of McDaniels thought Cassel was worth a 1st round pick! IN fact, nobody outside the Chiefs offered as much as a 2nd round pick! And NOBODY has ever suggested the Lions or Bucs had any interest in Cassel.

And, again, you're just speculating, most incorrectly, about how things went down. We don't know the entire story, despite your claims. We do know that deals often don't go down until deadlines near. Trades often have tepid initial interest before building momentum. Belichick has, I believe, stated that the Patriots could probably have gotten more if he'd waited, but he didn't want to wait because he wanted the cap room, and he couldn't be sure that the Chiefs wouldn't change their minds.

Now, some or all of what the players in this drama have been saying could be complete lies. However, you don't know if that is the case. You're simply making claims and acting as if you've given out facts when you haven't.


He's a one-year wonder, who did well enough to win 11 games, but still fail to make the playoffs with a team that won 18 and went to the SB the year before! That's not exactly a ringing endorsement! He lost 7 more games than they lost the previous season! :coffee:

1.) It's the first time in the history of the NFL that an 11 win team failed to make the playoffs under the new divisional format. Acting as if failing to make the playoffs is some proof of inadequacy is just ridiculous.

2.) Whether you admit it or not, Cassel improved a great deal from the beginning of the season until the end. In fact, the Patriots won 5 of their last 6 games, with the only loss in that stretch coming to the Steelers. Cassel, like Rivers, was more deserving of the Pro Bowl than your beloved Cutler, who took the gas-pipe in the final 3 games of the season.


Bottom Line: Why were these teams wasting their time trying to get the Patriots to agree to the trade if they didn't want Cassel and didn't have a deal with the Broncos! If that were true and they'd succeeded, they'd have been stuck giving up their #1 pick for a guy they didn't think was worth it and may not even have wanted at all!

ERGO: McDaniels entire story falls to the ground. It's just not remotely believable -- and everybody in the press and around the NFL assumes that he's covering up.

You really have to work on making cogent logical arguments instead of naked assertions. I may never have thought about selling my car because I love how she runs but, if someone comes around and offers me a great deal for it, I might very well be tempted to make the sale. That doesn't mean that I was looking to sell the car.




Notice that most fans now focus on the Jay Cutler hold-out and conveniently forget the nonsense that led up to it!

1. Why did McDaniels want to trade Cutler in the first place?

and

2. Why did he refuse to come clean about it instead of pretending "nothing happened."

It was that DENIAL and his refusal to offer Jay any commitment for the future that made him want to be traded after his meeting with Josh: "I want you to be my QB of the future" instead of "Nobody's untradeable, and nobody can predict the future." :coffee:

Now you can all get back to your regularly scheduled Jay-bashing.

And, once again, you go with naked assertions rather than actual facts. It's the story of your entire post. There are two known facts: Cutler DID receive at least one call that he didn't return (unless you assume that his own agent is lying about it), and Cutler claimed that he didn't want to be traded after he'd already issued a formal trade request.

The rest is speculation. Like seemingly 99.999999% of your post.

[atwater27]

Great thread.

[Shazam!]

This is worse than the Jake Plummer bitches crying.

[Northman]

This is worse than the Jake Plummer bitches crying.

It is pretty sad isnt it? :lol:

I just dont understand the high school drama over a individual who didnt want to be here in the first place. Throw on top of that we havent even seen how this team will play to even begin crying over that same individual who didnt want to be here. I guess i must be just getting old and have other important things in my life rght now rather than to get worked up over such trivial things beyond my control when it comes to this team.

[GEM]

I like Jamie Dukes.

Scott Hastings also called Cutler a little bitch... And in retrospect, he was right.

I still laugh when they play that...."I think he's a little bitch".

[BroncoJoe]

Love listening to Al and Scott.

[Dirk]

Well one thing for certain. This off season hasn't been boring. :D

[Elevation inc]

GO orton, go orton, go orton, go orton, go orton......GO!!!!


oh my bad i thought we were talking about a Qb actually on our roster...lol

[atwater27]

All you guys calling Jay Cutler a "bitch" are the biggest passive aggressive pansies I have ever seen. I bet none of you are man enough to say it to his face if you had the chance. Well, whatever makes you feel tough.

[Northman]

All you guys calling Jay Cutler a "bitch" are the biggest passive aggressive pansies I have ever seen. I bet none of you are man enough to say it to his face if you had the chance. Well, whatever makes you feel tough.

Yea, i might not do that. I would be afraid he would go on suicide watch and i just couldnt live with the guilt.

[BroncoJoe]

All you guys calling Jay Cutler a "bitch" are the biggest passive aggressive pansies I have ever seen. I bet none of you are man enough to say it to his face if you had the chance. Well, whatever makes you feel tough.

Ok, tuff guy. If I met Cutler, I'd tell him to go **** himself. Doesn't want to be a Bronco? Screw him.

P.S. You're talking tough on the internet. LOL, fool.

[claymore]

I didnt know which Cutler thread to put this in. I cant wait till we get a Dlineman that can talk shit.


Jared Allen Plans To Give Jay Cutler The Matt Schaub Treatment
Posted by Mike Florio on April 10, 2009, 3:47 p.m.

Vikings defensive end Jared Allen has addressed the arrival of quarterback Jay Cutler to the NFC North.

“Twice a year, I’m gonna peel the back of his head off the turf,” Allen recently said while interviewed backstage at the ACMs. (Whatever the ACMs are.)

Allen was laughing as he said it, and he made it clear that he “love[s] the guy,” against whom he played twice per year when Allen was with the Chiefs.

Still, is there any doubt that Allen will do everything he can to knock Cutler down and/or out of a game?

“Business is business,” Allen said.

Here’s the video. (Thanks to The Viking Age for the link.) We love the cowboy hat, the broccoli-style mullet popping out the back of it, and the purple T-shirt with a grade school-style silhouette of Allen in yellow, and his trademark “69″ in the middle of it.


mlbCO-WLbVE

[Den21vsBal19]

All you guys calling Jay Cutler a "bitch" are the biggest passive aggressive pansies I have ever seen. I bet none of you are man enough to say it to his face if you had the chance. Well, whatever makes you feel tough.
Just like he wasn't man enough to talk to his coach with out Bus holding his hand............

Just like he wasn't man enough to answer phone calls from his boss..............

Just like he wasn't man enough to answer phone calls from his team-mates......................you remember them, the guys that he said he played football for..........

[Northman]

I didnt know which Cutler thread to put this in. I cant wait till we get a Dlineman that can talk shit.

Behind that Oline ought to be a fun day for Allen. :lol:

[atwater27]

Yea, i might not do that. I would be afraid he would go on suicide watch and i just couldnt live with the guilt.

I'll go with option B, he'd bitch slap you into submission.

[Lonestar]

Just like he wasn't man enough to talk to his coach with out Bus holding his hand............

Just like he wasn't man enough to answer phone calls from his boss..............

Just like he wasn't man enough to answer phone calls from his team-mates......................you remember them, the guys that he said he played football for..........


out on the ranches he is refereed to as all hat, no cattle..

[atwater27]

Ok, tuff guy. If I met Cutler, I'd tell him to go **** himself. Doesn't want to be a Bronco? Screw him.

P.S. You're talking tough on the internet. LOL, fool.

I am no tougher than you as far as I know. How's that for toughness?

P.S. I am sure you would do just that.:rolleyes:

[atwater27]

Just like he wasn't man enough to talk to his coach with out Bus holding his hand............

Just like he wasn't man enough to answer phone calls from his boss..............

Just like he wasn't man enough to answer phone calls from his team-mates......................you remember them, the guys that he said he played football for..........

You weren't there, you don't know a thing.
If you are going to question someone's manhood, for God's sake do it to his face.

[Northman]

I'll go with option B, he'd bitch slap you into submission.


I do believe he would try to "bitch slap" me but once i put my fist through his grill it would be game over. But then again, since he doesnt like confrontation i dont think it will ever come to that as he seems to run away from his shadow.

[Lonestar]

I do believe he would try to "bitch slap" me but once i put my fist through his grill it would be game over. But then again, since he doesnt like confrontation i dont think it will ever come to that as he seems to run away from his shadow.

actually I think it is more if he can't hide behind his agents skirt he is mute.. :D

[Den21vsBal19]

You weren't there, you don't know a thing.

And you were?


If you are going to question someone's manhood, for God's sake do it to his face.

If he won't talk to his owner, coach or teammates, what makes you think he'd talk to a mere Broncos fan? :confused:

[Northman]

And you were?



If he won't talk to his owner, coach or teammates, what makes you think he'd talk to a mere Broncos fan? :confused:

He has been known to blow off little kids.......

[Foochacho]

All you guys calling Jay Cutler a "bitch" are the biggest passive aggressive pansies I have ever seen. I bet none of you are man enough to say it to his face if you had the chance. Well, whatever makes you feel tough.

I've actually planned on doing this for some time. First I am going to have him sign my Cutler jersey than I plan to spit on it, throw it on the ground and stomp on it. I plan on doing this in the summer at bears camp since it is in my town. I can't wait to disrespect Cutler to his face in front of a huge crowd of bears fans. My only concern is possibly getting jumped by a few bears fans, but hey it will make for a fun day either way.

I would like to burn it but am not sure what kind of legal trouble you can get into if you purposely start an article of clothing on fire in a crowded public place. Don't feel like paying any fines.

This will only work of course if I can get him to sign my jersey so I may have to just settle for yelling obscenities at him until I get kicked out. It will be my first year going to the camp so I don't know how the setup is, but I am sure I can get close enough for him to hear.

[Lonestar]

I've actually planned on doing this for some time. First I am going to have him sign my Cutler jersey than I plan to spit on it, throw it on the ground and stomp on it. I plan on doing this in the summer at bears camp since it is in my town. I can't wait to disrespect Cutler to his face in front of a huge crowd of bears fans. My only concern is possibly getting jumped by a few bears fans, but hey it will make for a fun day either way.

I would like to burn it but am not sure what kind of legal trouble you can get into if you purposely start an article of clothing on fire in a crowded public place. Don't feel like paying any fines.

This will only work of course if I can get him to sign my jersey so I may have to just settle for yelling obscenities at him until I get kicked out. It will be my first year going to the camp so I don't know how the setup is, but I am sure I can get close enough for him to hear.


wear body armor as most of the posts I had read on there web site they think this kid walks on water.. of course they have not had a legit QB since Sid Luckman either..

so it will be interesting to see him getting eaten alive after he chokes a couple of times.. or calls out his defense or receivers.. Wonder if they have a prime spot on the bench for him to pout at yet..

ahahahahahahahaha glad to see his sorry ass gone..

[Foochacho]

wear body armor as most of the posts I had read on there web site they think this kid walks on water.. of course they have not had a legit QB since Sid Luckman either..

so it will be interesting to see him getting eaten alive after he chokes a couple of times.. or calls out his defense or receivers.. Wonder if they have a prime spot on the bench for him to pout at yet..

ahahahahahahahaha glad to see his sorry ass gone..

Yea I think I need to bring some friends
1. To video tape me disrespecting Jay.
2. Help me out if I get jumped.

Only problem is all my friends are bears fans and after all the problems I have been giving them this offseason, me disrespecting their new quarterback may be the straw that broke the camel's back. My friends might be the ones that jump me.:D

[Lonestar]

Yea I think I need to bring some friends
1. To video tape me disrespecting Jay.
2. Help me out if I get jumped.

Only problem is all my friends are bears fans and after all the problems I have been giving them this offseason, me disrespecting their new quarterback may be the straw that broke the camel's back. My friends might be the ones that jump me.:D

is your insurance current?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

trust me the bears fans will be eating him alive if he thinks his coach in Den was harsh wait till the fans there get him, by the 5-6 game if not then when a playoff spot is not the line and he chokes like he did in DEN..

[Foochacho]

He's just going to look like Rex Grossman 2.0 in Chicago and they are going to be throwing a fit for all the picks they gave up for him.

[Tempus Fugit]

All you guys calling Jay Cutler a "bitch" are the biggest passive aggressive pansies I have ever seen. I bet none of you are man enough to say it to his face if you had the chance. Well, whatever makes you feel tough.

Cutler's a quarterback who weighs in at about 225. Why on earth would people be afraid to call him a bitch to his face? Is he going to scratch their eyes out or something?

[Foochacho]

Cutler's a quarterback who weighs in at about 225. Why on earth would people be afraid to call him a bitch to his face? Is he going to scratch their eyes out or something?

He will poke you with his insulin needles.

[atwater27]

I've actually planned on doing this for some time. First I am going to have him sign my Cutler jersey than I plan to spit on it, throw it on the ground and stomp on it. I plan on doing this in the summer at bears camp since it is in my town. I can't wait to disrespect Cutler to his face in front of a huge crowd of bears fans. My only concern is possibly getting jumped by a few bears fans, but hey it will make for a fun day either way.

I would like to burn it but am not sure what kind of legal trouble you can get into if you purposely start an article of clothing on fire in a crowded public place. Don't feel like paying any fines.

This will only work of course if I can get him to sign my jersey so I may have to just settle for yelling obscenities at him until I get kicked out. It will be my first year going to the camp so I don't know how the setup is, but I am sure I can get close enough for him to hear.
Let me know how it goes, winner.

[atwater27]

He's just going to look like Rex Grossman 2.0 in Chicago and they are going to be throwing a fit for all the picks they gave up for him.

Just think, 5 months ago you were cheering for him. Classic.:confused:

[atwater27]

Cutler's a quarterback who weighs in at about 225. Why on earth would people be afraid to call him a bitch to his face? Is he going to scratch their eyes out or something?

Do it and tell me how it goes. :lol:

[slim]

Let me know how it goes, winner.

Yeah, he's the loser :rolleyes:

Go cut your wrists because Jay is no longer a Bronco.

[Foochacho]

Let me know how it goes, winner.

I plan to have video so I guess i will just have to show you. You can watch the video over and over while you cry yourself to sleep.

[Foochacho]

Just think, 5 months ago you were cheering for him. Classic.:confused:

Yes I cheer for my team, Jay is a bear so he is nothing to me. If he accomplished more than whining himself out of town while playing here I would have given him my respect.

[atwater27]

I plan to have video so I guess i will just have to show you. You can watch the video over and over while you cry yourself to sleep.

Please. Make a video. It would be funny seeing Cutler own you.

[Foochacho]

Please. Make a video. It would be funny seeing Cutler own you.

Yes, it would a video is worth 100 thousand words........ in court.:D

[Elevation inc]

All you guys calling Jay Cutler a "bitch" are the biggest passive aggressive pansies I have ever seen. I bet none of you are man enough to say it to his face if you had the chance. Well, whatever makes you feel tough.

last night i printed of a jay cutler 8 x 10 and yelled obscenties at it for leaving us.....



................does that count:confused:


i think it should


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Nomad]

is your insurance current?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

trust me the bears fans will be eating him alive if he thinks his coach in Den was harsh wait till the fans there get him, by the 5-6 game if not then when a playoff spot is not the line and he chokes like he did in DEN..


True! The Bears fans are expecting him to part Lake Michigan and walk on water while he's at it. Anything less will be unexceptable.

[atwater27]

Yeah, he's the loser :rolleyes:

Go cut your wrists because Jay is no longer a Bronco.

I called him a winner. Winner is the opposite of loser, in the dictionary. I will cut my wrists if you call Cutty a bitch to his face. (That is standing in front of him, not from the stands like a real man.)

[atwater27]

Yes I cheer for my team, Jay is a bear so he is nothing to me. If he accomplished more than whining himself out of town while playing here I would have given him my respect.

So you just admitted that he was respectable as a Denver quarterback, but is Rex Grossman 2.0 in Chicago. Congratulations, you make no sense.

[Tempus Fugit]

Yes I cheer for my team, Jay is a bear so he is nothing to me. If he accomplished more than whining himself out of town while playing here I would have given him my respect.

So you just admitted that he was respectable as a Denver quarterback, but is Rex Grossman 2.0 in Chicago. Congratulations, you make no sense.

http://www.linden-school.org/images/logos/RIF-Logo-blue_large.gif

[atwater27]

He's just going to look like Rex Grossman 2.0 in Chicago and they are going to be throwing a fit for all the picks they gave up for him.

Reading is indeed fundamental. Why don't you?

Foo's words. Better luck next time Tempus fudge

[Tempus Fugit]

Reading is indeed fundamental. Why don't you?

Foo's words. Better luck next time Tempus fudge

I did read it. You pretty clearly didn't, or you didn't comprehend it, which was the point.

[Lonestar]

before this gets out of hand and personal lets tone it down a bit..

OK

[Foochacho]

He will look like Rex Grossman because one minute he will be outstanding and the next he will be giving away the game. Grossman looked great at times and then the next thing you know he throws 4 ints. Jay will do the same behind that shotty o-line. I am sure Jay will put up some good games this year but he will also have some god awful ones just like Grossman did. I would say most likely Jay will throw more ints. than TD's this year. Grossman was a turnover machine which is why I say Jay will be Grossman 2.0.

[atwater27]

He will look like Rex Grossman because one minute he will be outstanding and the next he will be giving away the game. Grossman looked great at times and then the next thing you know he throws 4 ints. Jay will do the same behind that shotty o-line. I am sure Jay will put up some good games this year but he will also have some god awful ones just like Grossman did. I would say most likely Jay will throw more ints. than TD's this year. Grossman was a turnover machine which is why I say Jay will be Grossman 2.0.

There is no comparison. Cutler is leagues ahead of Grossman. Jay will show you this next season.

[Lonestar]

There is no comparison. Cutler is leagues ahead of Grossman. Jay will show you this next season.


well when he does let us know. till then we really do not need to hear more..

[silkamilkamonico]

This is nonsense. Cutler is worlds ahead of Grossman, along with the 31 other NFL starting QB's. There's a reason why the guy is a backup QB in Chicago of all places.

[silkamilkamonico]

I think Jay will be unhappy in Chicago.

He's going to win more games, but he isn't going to be able to thow for 4000 yards and 18 interceptions a year, which is something he really loves doing.

[Nomad]

Cutler looks at the BRONCOS and sticks up the middle finger and says to the Bears FO......'Show me the money'!!!!!!!!!:lol:


Cutler still eligible to receive workout bonus from Bears
Posted: Around The Web | NFL.com Staff | Tags: Chicago Bears, Denver Broncos, Jay Cutler

Among the topics that Chicago Sun-Times writer Brad Biggs covered in his Bears mailbag column was the status of QB Jay Cutler’s $100,000 workout bonus, which he reportedly forfeited with the Broncos when he failed to show up for voluntary workouts last month.

But Cutler has a fresh start after being traded to the Bears and, because the team hasn’t begun its offseason program, is still eligible to collect on that bonus, Biggs reports:

Yes, Cutler is eligible to earn the $100,000 workout bonus that is a part of the contract the Bears inherited when they traded for Cutler. The contract applies to the Bears and because Cutler was acquired before the start of the club’s voluntary offseason workout program, he’s eligible to cash in. It doesn’t matter what happened with the Broncos, where he had missed out on the mark after missing six days

[Ravage!!!]

He will look like Rex Grossman because one minute he will be outstanding and the next he will be giving away the game. Grossman looked great at times and then the next thing you know he throws 4 ints. Jay will do the same behind that shotty o-line. I am sure Jay will put up some good games this year but he will also have some god awful ones just like Grossman did. I would say most likely Jay will throw more ints. than TD's this year. Grossman was a turnover machine which is why I say Jay will be Grossman 2.0.

I'll take that bet. EVERY year we hear how "bad" someone's offensive line is. They year before last, our OL was horrible, and you didn't see Cutler throwing more INTs than TDs. No reason to believe differently this season just because he's with the Bears.

The difference this season, is he knows he can actually afford to punt he ball away this year without everything being directly tied to the offense. Thats a completely new way of approaching the game when you know you can actually throw it safe and actually know your defense isn't necessarily going to give up 30 pts.

In fact.. without Cutler.. I'm betting our OL doesn't look as good this year as it did last. Care to take that bet?

[Ravage!!!]

I think Jay will be unhappy in Chicago.

He's going to win more games, but he isn't going to be able to thow for 4000 yards and 18 interceptions a year, which is something he really loves doing.

Because he's done it once, and thus, you feel he simply fell in love with it??? What on earth would have you make this statement feeling you have an OUNCE of substance of truth to it?

[silkamilkamonico]

Because he's done it once, and thus, you feel he simply fell in love with it??? What on earth would have you make this statement feeling you have an OUNCE of substance of truth to it?

Apparently you missed the memo of Cutler being unhappy when Shanahan was fired, the same man that "lived" with offense and "died" with defense in the last couple of years, and refused to make any significant changes, especially on the coaching staff, of what was arguably the worst defense in franchise history.

Ain't that hard to figure out and put together, really.

[Ravage!!!]

Apparently you missed the memo of Cutler being unhappy when Shanahan was fired, the same man that "lived" with offense and "died" with defense in the last couple of years, and refused to make any significant changes, especially on the coaching staff, of what was arguably the worst defense in franchise history.

Ain't that hard to figure out and put together, really.

It might not be hard from your odd perspective. But I still don't see how you put the two together... really.

As far as Cutler being "unhappy" when Shanahan was fired. He didn't express any more "unhappiness" than I've seen from a hundred players when a coach is fired. Its pretty common for a player to express "unhappiness" when a coach they like is fired from the team.

So I don't see how that has to do with ANYTHING, and certainly don't see how you tie it to the round-a-bout insult (and/or negative prediction) that you are doing your best to deliver to/for Cutler.

[silkamilkamonico]

It might not be hard from your odd perspective. But I still don't see how you put the two together... really.

As far as Cutler being "unhappy" when Shanahan was fired. He didn't express any more "unhappiness" than I've seen from a hundred players when a coach is fired. Its pretty common for a player to express "unhappiness" when a coach they like is fired from the team.

So I don't see how that has to do with ANYTHING, and certainly don't see how you tie it to the round-a-bout insult (and/or negative prediction) that you are doing your best to deliver to/for Cutler.


Great point. "Who needs defense when you have a QB that has a stronger arm than John Elway!"

Apparently you were just as satisfied with Cutler on the "our defense played well enough to win", statements made from shanahan repeatedly the last couple of years. But then again, when your a career college/NFL QB with a losing record, you might not actually know the difference.

At least Brandon Marshall was smart enough to figure out the "change" that can happen with a new regume.

[Ravage!!!]

Great point. "Who needs defense when you have a QB that has a stronger arm than John Elway!"

Apparently you were just as satisfied with Cutler on the "our defense played well enough to win", statements made from shanahan repeatedly the last couple of years. But then again, when your a career college/NFL QB with a losing record, you might not actually know the difference.

At least Brandon Marshall was smart enough to figure out the "change" that can happen with a new regume.

silk.. are you drunk???

Because I'm completely lost as to where you turn my words into ANYTHING that has to do with the defense. :confused:

I have NO idea how you figure Jay won't be happy in Chicago, because he won't throw the ball 4500 yrds and 18 INts... because he "likes" that?? :confused: He's only done that ONE season.

So what the hell does Shanahan being fired... the defense "doing well enough to win"... and whatever else you said have to do with you believing ANYTHING you said as fact??? Do you see pink elephants, silk? Did you get enough sleep? I think you have lost it. :elefant: :elefant:

[silkamilkamonico]

silk.. are you drunk???

Because I'm completely lost as to where you turn my words into ANYTHING that has to do with the defense. :confused:

I have NO idea how you figure Jay won't be happy in Chicago, because he won't throw the ball 4500 yrds and 18 INts... because he "likes" that?? :confused: He's only done that ONE season.

So what the hell does Shanahan being fired... the defense "doing well enough to win"... and whatever else you said have to do with you believing ANYTHING you said as fact??? Do you see pink elephants, silk? Did you get enough sleep? I think you have lost it. :elefant: :elefant:

You could always try and improve your reading comprehension, but considering how your so keen on entering someone elses argument and calling it your own I can see why you would struggle with something like that.

All Cutler wants to do is throw the ball. He's stated it in interviews, IMO his body language shows it in games, and considering how he so adamantly weaseled his way out of Denver because they fired his beloved Shanahan, who didn't want to improve the defense, I can see where he would be fearful of the next coach not allowing him to "sling it around".

Sometimes you can't get from point A to point C, without going through point B. This is one of those things.

[Ravage!!!]

You could always try and improve your reading comprehension, but considering how your so keen on entering someone elses argument and calling it your own I can see why you would struggle with something like that.

All Cutler wants to do is throw the ball. He's stated it in interviews, IMO his body language shows it in games, and considering how he so adamantly weaseled his way out of Denver because they fired his beloved Shanahan, who didn't want to improve the defense.

Sometimes you can't get from point A to point C, without going through point B. This is one of those things.

Considering that McDaniels runs a spread offense that is QB friendly... I don't think that line of thinking makes sense.

I don't think he wanted out of Denver because Shanahan was gone (yes.. I know you think you have that figured out).. I think he wanted out of Denver because McDaniels was in.

But either way.. your line of thinking to come to the conclusion (with your astute observations and keen eye for body language) of how Cutler only wanted to throw the ball and will be 'unhappy' in Chicago is.... well.. odd.

BTW... you studying the same science they use on that show "lie to me"?? That how you are so good at studying the body language that tells you how he only wanted to throw the ball??

[silkamilkamonico]

Considering that McDaniels runs a spread offense that is QB friendly... I don't think that line of thinking makes sense.

I don't think he wanted out of Denver because Shanahan was gone (yes.. I know you think you have that figured out).. I think he wanted out of Denver because McDaniels was in.

But either way.. your line of thinking to come to the conclusion (with your astute observations and keen eye for body language) of how Cutler only wanted to throw the ball and will be 'unhappy' in Chicago is.... well.. odd.

BTW... you studying the same science they use on that show "lie to me"?? That how you are so good at studying the body language that tells you how he only wanted to throw the ball??

That's great logic. Surely Cutler wouldn't want to play under McDaniels, who "runs a QB friendly offense". I think you're tripping over your own words on that one.

So now Cutler's body language "lies to us"? That's odd that you would be saying it's "odd" for someone else to make an opinion on body language, and then you go and make an opinion yourself.

Hypocrite much?

[Ravage!!!]

That's great logic. Surely Cutler wouldn't want to play under McDaniels, who "runs a QB friendly offense". I think you're tripping over your own words on that one.

So now Cutler's body language "lies to us"? That's odd that you would be saying it's "odd" for someone else to make an opinion on body language, and then you go and make an opinion yourself.

Hypocrite much?

First off...:laugh: I think you are drunk, because you aren't keeping up.

But hey. you are the one making statements that that Cutler won't be happy because he "likes" doing something after one season... as if it were inside information. I'm just asking you how you came to such an opinion.

If you want to say its because of your "lie to me" information gathering... great for you.

[silkamilkamonico]

First off...:laugh: I think you are drunk, because you aren't keeping up.

But hey. you are the one making statements that that Cutler won't be happy because he "likes" doing something after one season... as if it were inside information. I'm just asking you how you came to such an opinion.

If you want to say its because of your "lie to me" information gathering... great for you.

LMAO

"inside information" isn't how someone would come up with an opinion. That would be the view of perception, especially in dealing with watching a football team on TV, or press conferences for that matter.

So what next, you want to actually argue an opinion? Welcome to a message board.

And please don't change my argument again, I'm not the one assuming Cutler's body language is "lying to me". Not great for you.