Contender in two years??

[underrated29]

Do you think we can be SB contenders in 2 more years? Depends on how we draft, and Orton does, and FA right? What if things went like this- or similiar.

'09(no trades for picks or players)
#12-wells/moreno
#18-rey,cush,english,tyjax-pick a LB/DE
#2-NT-brace if there or S moore
#3-BPA DE/CB/S/DT/LB
#3-same as above.

Now, we have to assume two things here. 1. Orton does pan out as expected. Not great, but not bad, and will be like cassell was to the pats. 2. We do have a losing season next year and likely a top 10 pick, with our schedule and such its not out of the realm of possibility. Remember without Jay, the SD game, and us holding on for life the first 3 games, we could have had a 5-11 record last year.

So with that in mind the '10 draft.

#1-DT-Mt. Terrence Cody
#1-(might have to trade up a little depending on bears) S-Taylor Mays
2nd/3rd dont know dont care, might be used to move up to get mays....


Our team with Nolan running the D would essentially get all the Rush LB's and DE and a backup NT, and S and CB to start in this '09 draft. "10 Draft we get our Starting NT, and S then whatever. The NEW NOLAN D would look like

DT/NT-cody,brace,fields,powell?
DE-thomas,peterson,crowder?,draft '09 (starter),draft '09-starter
LB-DJ,Andra davis,boss,doom,moss,english/mathews/rey,crowder?larsen
CB-champ,goodman,draftee,bell,JMFW
S-dawkins,barrett,Moore (if no brace),Taylor mays, the miami guy we signed.

Now i am missing some guys, and probably have some in the wrong position, but if we can field a team that has our offense + moreno/wells and Orton works out. We should be able to Hang with the '07 pats scoring wise. Then on defense we have brace and cody to eat blockers and runners, plus the 1st rd Rush LB/DE, plus the other LB/DE we draft, and Taylor mays,barrett and dawkins patrolling the deep waters to pick up what champ and others leave behind....

I dont know how feasable it is to draft cody and mays next year or some of the guys this year, but if we can draft similiar to that and the guys dont bust, i think we can be right in the mix real fast.

Thoughts?

[Lonestar]

some good Ideas.. Anyone that originally thought we would be Superbowl bounds after mikey was fired Josh was hired and before jay-gate were sadly mistaken..

thinking that all we had to do was fix the D..

New Offensive scheme having to teach the coaches first and then the QB and then all the players..

On D
having 2 starters back from last year.. all new players having to learn a new scheme and coaching..

ON ST

building from scratch

Naw it was not gonna happen not even mentioning the potential shit storms we have to face with the schedule..

But the years after 2009 these 2010-14 should be some banner years..

[bcbronc]

In this day and age, for sure we can be contenders in two years.

Orton would have to click (or Simms I guess).

and we'd need to add at least one playmaker to each level of the defense--DL, LB, Secondary.

Orton, I'm cautiously optimistic that he'll keep this offense going in the right direction.

Playmakers are always harder to find. Dawkins, if he really is our second coming of Lynch, would be one playmaker. there's a chance Doom or Moss will benefit from the change of scheme and emerge as a second "new" playmaker. DL in a 30 front, we need that guy to be a NT.

but our defense now is already improved. we've now got at least "solid" starters in most positions. we just need to add some difference makers (outside of Champ) to the likes of DJ, Goodman, Davis, and Fields to take us to the next rung in the ladder.

If that happens, yes we will be contenders in two years.

[underrated29]

some good Ideas.. Anyone that originally thought we would be Superbowl bounds after mikey was fired Josh was hired and before jay-gate were sadly mistaken..

thinking that all we had to do was fix the D..

New Offensive scheme having to teach the coaches first and then the QB and then all the players..

On D
having 2 starters back from last year.. all new players having to learn a new scheme and coaching..

ON ST

building from scratch

Naw it was not gonna happen not even mentioning the potential shit storms we have to face with the schedule..

But the years after 2009 these 2010-14 should be some banner years..


Are you being serious, or sarcastic? i cant tell.

Anyways- 1 thing to say-thats neither for nor against the topic at hand is that the offensive scheme in NE- the year they went 16-0 was the very first year they implemented it. So the ENTIRE team had to pick it up in one offseason.

[Superchop 7]

Defense wins championships.

Thats what it all boils down to.

For us, we need an all world NT or it will never work.

Get that guy, then you can start making plans.

Until then, no way.

[LRtagger]

We would really have to move up next year to get both Cody and Mays because I think Chicago will win 10 games next year and our second pick will be in the 20's. I think Mays will be a top 10 pick and he should most definitely be off the board by 15.

I personally think if we do have a top 10 pick that we should target Eric Berry and then get a tackle with our second pick...maybe a guy like Suh (he will probably be a top 20 guy) or Lawrence Marsh or Jarvis Jenkins. Cody is a monster in the middle but Berry will be the next Ed Reed. I personally think he will be a better player than Reed myself. Berry is going to be special.

But anyways to get back on topic, if we play our cards right with all of these picks, we can absolutely be a contender in a couple years. No doubt about it. Not only will we be a contender, but we will be a young contender. At the same time we could end up with a roster of Jarvis Moss' and Tim Crowders. These two drafts are very critical to this franchise and its future. We will either be the next Pats/Chargers with a stacked roster or we will be the next Chiefs with lots of top prospects but cant put it together.

[honz]

We will for sure make the playoffs in 2 years as long as we hit on most of our draft picks and find a QB that can give us solid play, whether that be Orton, some 5th round pick we draft this year, or Byron Leftwich. :D

[Lonestar]

Are you being serious, or sarcastic? i cant tell.

Anyways- 1 thing to say-thats neither for nor against the topic at hand is that the offensive scheme in NE- the year they went 16-0 was the very first year they implemented it. So the ENTIRE team had to pick it up in one offseason.


granted but we have to learn both if not three schemes form the ground up and on defenses sake put 9 new players on the field to go with DJ and Champ and get them to mesh some what..

Had jay stayed the defense was still s huge a mess and who the hell knows what needs to be done on ST ..

I was saying 2010 before jaygayte and now think it is 2011-14 2010 may happen but all the moons ands stars are gonna have to line up perfectly for that to happen..

[broncofaninfla]

If we have an effective draft in filling holes on defense and draft a QB who can play withen the system and has a strong enough arm to stretch the field I think we can compete. There are a lot of "if's" with us though...........

[Lonestar]

If we have an effective draft in filling holes on defense and draft a QB who can play withen the system and has a strong enough arm to stretch the field I think we can compete. There are a lot of "if's" with us though...........

yet neither Brady or Cassell needed to stretch the field in NE.. why the need here?

[TXBRONC]

yet neither Brady or Cassell needed to stretch the field in NE.. why the need here?

Actually they have been stretching the field with Moss. 2007 they led the League in plays of 20 yards or more. :coffee:

By the way that's one of the reasons they run the spread to stretch the defense vertically as well as horizontally.

[underrated29]

Exactly. I think it comes down more to defense. If we can get a defense similiar to what i posted- i think it could easily be top 10 with nolan at the helm. That means shorter fields, turnovers, and of course less pressure on the offense. That also mean we can take some shots deep and if we miss, okay, whatever the defense will hold them until we get the ball back.

If the defense were to turn out similiar we would really have very few holes on it, and it would also be super young just like our offense.

[Fan in Exile]

I think that we are going to compete next year. At least within the division.

San Diego isn't going to run away with it they were 8-8 last year for a reason. They've got line problems and Norv barely saved his job with our three game losing streak.

You've got to wait and see what Cassel does without Moss, Welker and Gaffney before you can count KC into anything. At the same time they're also installing a new defense.

Oakland at best is going to have growing pains at worst they're going to realize that Eric Pears isn't the final piece in their O-line puzzle. Russel may be improving but I think bringing in Garcia shows that they are concerned about him needing an example to learn from. I also think that as long as Al is in charge they are going to have great success drafting because he's too in love with speed and strength to get playmakers.

Yeah we've got a lot of if's on our team but so does the rest of the AFC west so next year isn't looking so bad in the division, and maybe two years from now outside of it.

[Medford Bronco]

yet neither Brady or Cassell needed to stretch the field in NE.. why the need here?

Its about scoring pts and not turning it over.
Its not rocket science as some might think.

Joe Montana hardly ever stretchedc the field and neither did Steve Young.

Orton is not them I know. But its about being Smart with your decisions and not thinking your "talent" will get you over the top because it always had since you were a kid through college and to a small extend in the NFL.

I think we might not be worring about the most important part of the Broncos. We need a good running game as well and that would be huge to any QB in our offense.

btw NE ran the ball better than most think as well.

Also obviously the defense has to get better. I beleive with Nolan and a good draft, we might get in the middle of the pack, which would be a huge improvement over last years Slowbrain unit.

[Lonestar]

Actually they have been stretching the field with Moss. 2007 they led the League in plays of 20 yards or more. :coffee:

By the way that's one of the reasons they run the spread to stretch the defense vertically as well as horizontally.


IIRC there was a heck of alot of YAC with their receivers catching the ball underneath and the WR making the yards..

But I could be wrong that was what I remembered seeing when i did get the games or saw hi lights..

[TXBRONC]

Exactly. I think it comes down more to defense. If we can get a defense similiar to what i posted- i think it could easily be top 10 with nolan at the helm. That means shorter fields, turnovers, and of course less pressure on the offense. That also mean we can take some shots deep and if we miss, okay, whatever the defense will hold them until we get the ball back.

If the defense were to turn out similiar we would really have very few holes on it, and it would also be super young just like our offense.

A defense that can get turnovers and stop opponents from having long drives is always boone for the offense.

[Lonestar]

Its about scoring pts and not turning it over.
Its not rocket science as some might think.

Joe Montana hardly ever stretchedc the field and neither did Steve Young.

Orton is not them I know. But its about being Smart with your decisions and not thinking your "talent" will get you over the top because it always had since you were a kid through college and to a small extend in the NFL.

I think we might not be worring about the most important part of the Broncos. We need a good running game as well and that would be huge to any QB in our offense.

btw NE ran the ball better than most think as well.
Also obviously the defense has to get better. I beleive with Nolan and a good draft, we might get in the middle of the pack, which would be a huge improvement over last years Slowbrain unit.


over the years since Brady they have consistently had two runners with 750-900 yards and a third with about 400 and a bunch of catches K Faulk not to be confused with Marshall.. they did have one year with a studbuffalo but only one when they went back to the RBBC.. Faulk also had a passel of TD's short yardage stuff and from catches..

I think Nolan will also do a much better job that slowick but then just showing yup for work with the book Defense for Dummies would have also..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

IMO...the front 7 should be addressed in this draft. I also think WR depth is a must. We've signed some aging vets in the secondary and that can be the focus in 2010.

I think we're lucky to win 7 games in 2009 and that puts us in the top 10. Even if Orton plays well and the D improves, we can be a better team and still have a worse record. Lucky us..NE and Indy both finish 2nd...just like us. Add the AFCN and the NFCN and we're hurtin.

BUT...Chicago also doesn't have a simple schedule.
Home: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, Arizona, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Pittsburgh
Away: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, San Francisco, Seattle, Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati

They have 5 pretty hard games (bolded) out of their division...and I think GB and Minny are gonna be tough too. Chicago has no weapons or OLine and the D is slipping. I doubt they make the playoffs either. Cutler's supporting cast is worse now than it was 2 weeks ago.

Sooooo...if the front 7 can be addressed in 09, we have to eye the Vol in 2010. Dawkins is not a long term fix and Eric Berry is the real deal who could solidify the Safety position. The next pick should be for a CB...assuming no other major needs arise over the next 365 days.

We won't be quite SB ready in 2010, but we should be pretty friggin good.

[Cugel]

granted but we have to learn both if not three schemes form the ground up and on defenses sake put 9 new players on the field to go with DJ and Champ and get them to mesh some what..

Had jay stayed the defense was still s huge a mess and who the hell knows what needs to be done on ST ..

I was saying 2010 before jaygayte and now think it is 2011-14 2010 may happen but all the moons ands stars are gonna have to line up perfectly for that to happen..

Pretty much agree. 2010 would depend on a killer draft on defense plus Orton turning out to be pretty good in his role on offense and the coaches all working out and Denver somewhere, somehow finding a starting NT who's not named Ron Fields.

Yes, it's a lot to ask, but there are at least some factors going in the Broncos favor:

1. Denver will almost certainly have a top 10 pick next year, probably top five. They could get almost any player they wanted in the draft. That could be a top QB like Tebow but it might be a top defender who could step right in and help.

2. Denver will be playing a last place schedule next year and teams often rebound and have good years when they play a lot of other last-place patsies. Plus, they won't be playing the NFC East so that should also help.

3. Everybody has a year to settle down and learn their roles. The Coaches, the offense, the defense, Orton, McDaniels, everybody.

The team is bound to be better next season. Whether that translates into more than 6 wins remains to be seen, but it could be they even challenge for the division if the Chargers don't have a great year.

[hotcarl]

There is another assumption you forgot to mention with that scenario:

that maybe YOU cant predict how those draft picks will play in the NFL

IF we hit on 3 out of our top 5 i will be really happy

the draft is not even close to a sure thing and on a good day its a 50-50 proposition.

bye
~carl

[CrazyHorse]

If Miami can go from 1-15 to 11-5 we can contend this year or any year for that matter.

[hotcarl]

If Miami can go from 1-15 to 11-5 we can contend this year or any year for that matter.

that was some good personel decisions and some serious off the charts coaching, hopefully we have that in place.

maybe we can run the wilddog or wildbeard or something?

[Broncolingus]

Contenders for perhaps a Wild Card playoff game...that'll take luck though.

Contenders for the Championship - hell no.

Defense is too damn weak right now...2-3 years - and that's if everything goes about as well as possible - to get that unit back into shape.

[underrated29]

Im pretty sure i said if we dont draft busts. BUt a rb, and lb and cb, and de this year, then cody and a S next year-should solidify us pretty well.imo.

But they havae to work, and not be one year, or one dream wonders.

[TXBRONC]

Im pretty sure i said if we dont draft busts. BUt a rb, and lb and cb, and de this year, then cody and a S next year-should solidify us pretty well.imo.

But they havae to work, and not be one year, or one dream wonders.

Under I don't think it would be wise to ignore nose tackle this year in hopes getting Cody next year.

[underrated29]

Under I don't think it would be wise to ignore nose tackle this year in hopes getting Cody next year.

NO we still need to get brace this year...

But a NT combo of brace and cody, plus...powell,fields and the other scrubs would be pretty stellar i think. Of course if we wanted the number 1 pick neglecting NT would be a good way to go about it...I dont want that though.

[TXBRONC]

IIRC there was a heck of alot of YAC with their receivers catching the ball underneath and the WR making the yards..

But I could be wrong that was what I remembered seeing when i did get the games or saw hi lights..

Welker's ypc last season was 10.5 so I'm pretty sure he was not getting a lot yac. Moss ran a lot deep routes why? So he could stretch the field vertically.

[NameUsedBefore]

Possibly, but it looks grim.

In your own post you say we have to draft from position "X/Y/Z/A/B/C" etc. We have a lot of holes and we've left it to our drafting skills to fill them. Well, we got two new guys running that particular show so we haven't really seen their stuff yet -- and they'll have to be spot on. The most important hole is at QB now and that's easily the most difficult and time consuming slot to fill. I'd totally be onboard if it weren't for that fact, but I can't help but be reserved in my optimism when we don't have a real QB anymore.

[TXBRONC]

NO we still need to get brace this year...

But a NT combo of brace and cody, plus...powell,fields and the other scrubs would be pretty stellar i think. Of course if we wanted the number 1 pick neglecting NT would be a good way to go about it...I dont want that though.


My mistake I thought you were meaning we should hold off on getting a nose tackle until next season.

[Ravage!!!]

Welker's ypc last season was 10.5 so I'm pretty sure he was not getting a lot yac. Moss ran a lot deep routes why? So he could stretch the field vertically.

well.. In the NFL the average yards per completion is 7 yrds. So when I see Welker average over 10, I believe he did have a LOT of yac....

[Ravage!!!]

If Miami can go from 1-15 to 11-5 we can contend this year or any year for that matter.

well.. Miami already had a pretty darned good Defense...despite their 1-15 record.

[Shazam!]

I say playoff contenders is possible THIS SEASON. Here is why.

The Broncos defense that we have become so accustommed to watching getting routinely shellacked is gone. Dead. Finished. I say... no, I guarantee, I GUARANTEE, this defense will be improved by scheme and adjustments alone and leadership, something that was missing last season. Top 10? Nope. Middle of the league? Absolutely. As sad as that may be, that will be a drastic improvement. It's pathetic that maybe we can expect a stop on 2nd and 20 instead of giving up the play. Hopefully they'll be more physical and bigger upfront. As long as the DLine is improved through the Draft we'll get a better feel on how they'll look soon.

There is talent on this team. While everyone knows this, we said this before that they play down to their competition, they're not playing the best ball they're capable of, etc. This offense can really do some damage if they are able to click and learn in McDaniels' spread. The ingredients are there, and if they mesh, they'll score a lot of points. Too many times we settled for FGs or drives stalled at the 40. I'm sure McD knows this, his comments has said as much they need to collectively get better all around. People throw around this was the #2 offense in the League last season. I don't buy it.

QB is a question mark of coure, but I think Kyle Orton will be ok. He's a vet and hopefully motivated to succeed with the change of scene. Say what you want about Chicago and Orton's numbers, but Denver is twice as good. As long as he picks up the offense I think he'll be a good stop-gap. He wants to win and I like what he says. Give him a chance. Denver will Draft their QB of the future (no Sanchez no Sanchez no Sanchez no Sanchez no Sanchez) and hopefully they'll be set at the position in the future.

The schedule looks tough, but teams take steps back. It all happens in cycles. A Playoff team one year can be a dud the next. The Champion NYG didn't even make it out of the first round (Plaxico debacle or not) and with injuries, FA, and divisional factors for every team doesn't make a one year contender a guarantee the next. This is true for SD. They won the AFCW 3 years in a row and are due for a slip. They won't be sitting pretty forever, and Denver is closest.

Finally McDaniels. If he is able to get this team motivated and provide direction and leadership he'll be fine. If players don't buy into him and his system he'll fall flat on his face, this is an obvious possibility too. This change in Denver is a long time coming. I think we'll see a lot of exciting moments throughout the Season and hopefully all the drama is over that we'll see for a long time.

Anyway, I know I said pretty much what everyone else has said here already, but to say winning 9 games is out of the question? No. Would it shock you? It may surprise you, but you wouldn't be shocked. It is certainly within reach in a pretty bad division.

[Lonestar]

Welker's ypc last season was 10.5 so I'm pretty sure he was not getting a lot yac. Moss ran a lot deep routes why? So he could stretch the field vertically.

well lets see welker had :

yr totalyards YAC % ypc
07 1175 640 54.5 10.5
08 1165 758 65.1 10.5

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2008/patriots/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2007/patriots/

moss:
yr totalyards YAC % ypc
07 1493 293 19.7 15.2
08 1008 358 35.5 14.6



might want to revise your thoughts here

[TXBRONC]

well lets see welker had :

yr totalyards YAC % ypc
07 1175 640 54.5 10.5
08 1165 758 65.1 10.5

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2008/patriots/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2007/patriots/

moss:
yr totalyards YAC % ypc
07 1493 293 19.7 15.2
08 1008 358 35.5 14.6



might want to revise your thoughts here

Why would I do that when all you've done is give a total?

They throw ball way more than run it.

Welker just this last season averaged 7 catches per game, his yac per catch was 2.6 yards. So if he averaged 7 catches per game obviously you're going end up with a lot yac when you throw as much as the Patriots do. It also tells most the yards come the initial catch. Would you care to try again?

[TXBRONC]

well.. In the NFL the average yards per completion is 7 yrds. So when I see Welker average over 10, I believe he did have a LOT of yac....

Welker averaged about 7 catches per game which works out to about 2.6 in yac. So with Patriots throwing as much as they do certainly he's going accumulate a lot yac.