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silkamilkamonico
04-06-2009, 01:40 AM
Great article, if you actually have time to go through it. It's quite obvious why exactly Bowlen traded Cutler.

props to Ch1ggs over on the other site....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/05/trade/index.html


At about 2:30 p.m. Denver time Thursday, the Broncos gave the Chicago Bears the final terms of what they'd accept in trade for disgruntled quarterback Jay Cutler: first- and second-round picks this year, a first-round pick in 2010 and quarterback Kyle Orton.

Whoa! Too steep, thought Chicago GM Jerry Angelo, and he asked for a little time to mull it over and talk about it with his people. The Broncos told Angelo: "You've got a half-hour.''

A few things went though Angelo's mind, including the last time he was part of a staff that traded two No. 1s for a player. "We did Keyshawn Johnson for two ones in Tampa Bay, and we really got burned by it,'' he told me Friday night. "But this is a quarterback. Maybe a really good quarterback.''

We really want this guy, Angelo told those on his staff, but the compensation is too much. So he called the Broncos back and offered two ones, Orton and this year's fourth-round pick. Denver GM Brian Xanders and coach Josh McDaniels mulled it over and came back with this compromise: two first-round picks, Orton, and this year's third-round pick for Cutler and Denver's fifth-round pick this year.

Done, Angelo said. Fair deal.

"It was high-stakes poker,'' Angelo said when it was over. "And I couldn't see anyone else's hand.''

In the end, Chicago got a potentially great long-term quarterback (when's the last time, if ever, a 4,000-yard passer got traded at age 25?) and Angelo rebuilt his battered, way-too-conservative GM image. Denver got a better deal than the Broncos had a right to expect after their dissed owner ordered Cutler dealt, losing whatever leverage the team had. And Cutler proved he should write the foreword to Drew Rosenhaus' next book -- the one about how a superstar can shoot himself out of town. Cutler got exactly what he wanted, though talking oneself off the best young offense in football is not my idea of a good career decision by a franchise quarterback.

Aside from the late haggling between the Bears and Broncos over the price, I do know some facts that haven't been out there -- I don't think -- yet. The five things I know for sure, from talking to those in the middle of the Cutler trade discussions in the three days since the deal went down:

1. The key to the trade was Kyle Orton. Laugh if you want, but it's the absolute truth. McDaniels looked hard at tape of the available quarterbacks from teams that made serious offers, players like Orton, Washington's Jason Campbell and Tampa Bay's Luke McCown. Every one of those teams was in the ballpark with an offer of at least two first round draft picks and a quarterback.

But as the deal went down, McDaniels, who watched every offensive snap of more than 10 Bears games with Orton playing, got more and more impressed with Orton's arm, his decision-making and his ability to extend plays when the pocket broke down. You can think and I can think it's crazy he didn't like Campbell -- who got Washington off to a 6-2 start last year -- more than he liked Orton, but it's the unvarnished truth. McDaniels thinks he can win with Orton.

2. The Bears were sure the deal was collapsing Thursday afternoon, because the Broncos weren't answering phone calls, e-mails or texts. GM Jerry Angelo thought he'd gotten the rug pulled out from underneath him. Angelo hadn't heard from the Broncos for about three hours, and got so nervous by mid-afternoon Chicago time that he sent McDaniels a text message that said, in effect, "We gotta get this done. What's it gonna take for the Bears to win this?''

But the Broncos weren't ignoring Angelo, and they weren't working another team for a better deal. McDaniels told Xanders and the rest of the football people in the building that they weren't stopping business following owner Pat Bowlen's declaration that there was an open market for Cutler. Workouts would continue with McDaniels around; coaches meetings would go on as normal.

And the Broncos had eight players in the building between Tuesday and Friday -- including first-round prospects Brian Orakpo (defensive end, Texas), Knowshon Moreno (running back, Georgia) and Tyson Jackson (defensive end, LSU). McDaniels met with two of the prospects during the middle of the talks for Cutler Thursday, and he ignored the bleating on his cell phone while those meetings were going on.

Now Angelo can know for sure -- the Broncos were going to make the deal with him unless his final offer was a fraction of those from Washington and Tampa Bay.

3. The Jets were never in it seriously -- true story. New York is either convinced that Brett Ratliff or Kellen Clemens is its guy, or the Jets think the New York spotlight would have been too white-hot for a rabbit-ears guy like Cutler to handle, or they didn't want to pay two first-round picks for Cutler after giving a third for one season of Brett Favre. I just know that the Jets never made a remotely serious offer for Cutler, much to my surprise.

4. All you Redskins fans who are so sure youwerethisclose to getting Cutler? Total BS. Yes, Washington was competitive, and the 'Skins would have done whatever it took to get Cutler. But once McDaniels decided Orton was his man -- even though Washington's first-round pick would have been the 13th overall, five slots ahead of Chicago's -- the contest was over. The 'Skins were out of it, even though Cutler and greater Washington were sure it almost happened.

5. In the end, this trade happened so quickly because, first and foremost, the owner of the Broncos felt dissed. And you do not diss Pat Bowlen. Bowlen is 65. He has owned the team for 25 years. In Bowlen's world, there is a protocol to doing business, and part of that protocol is the players and coaches having respect for the owner, regardless of their personal feelings about anyone else in the organization. Imagine Tom Brady ignoring calls from Bob Kraft. It'd never happen. Imagine Dan Rooney getting snubbed by Ben Roethlisberger, or Peyton Manning ditching Jim Irsay. Never in a million years, regardless of how they felt about what was happening with the team.

In all the years Bowlen has owned the team, he has never felt quite the disrespect from a player or coach that he felt from Cutler ignoring his attempts to speak to him to attempt to bridge the problems between player and team. And you cannot underestimate how significant this was in Bowlen's Tuesday night pronouncement that Cutler was being put up on the trading block.

silkamilkamonico
04-06-2009, 01:40 AM
continued.....


So many tributaries. Such an interesting deal.

First, it should have never, ever come to this. Cutler-McDaniels was a match made in heaven -- a smart, tough, accurate passer with a great arm, in the hands of a Belichick protégé with a good offensive mind. Unless Orton becomes what Brady became in 2001, or Matt Cassel became in 2008, McDaniels and Bronco Nation will always wonder what they could have done to save this relationship. And I believe it could have been saved.

McDaniels could have sweet-talked Cutler a little more than he did. As one of the GMs involved in talking to the Broncos told me Saturday: "This should never have happened. This is bad for football. A great player talked his way off a team. If this trade doesn't work out for Denver, and Cutler plays great, which he should, Denver's going to look idiotic.''

Having said that, Cutler owns a degree of culpability that I believe is greater than the team's. As I wrote Thursday night, he has himself to blame for this trade, because he couldn't accept that the team fired the two coaches -- Mike Shanahan and Jeremy Bates -- most responsible for the very good offense the Broncos had in 2008 and then couldn't accept that McDaniels wouldn't assure him he'd never be traded.

Should McDaniels have lied about that? Maybe. But the Broncos once tried to trade John Elway to Washington, and Elway had to come back to the team knowing Dan Reeves wanted to deal him. They were never best friends, but Elway didn't go on strike like Cutler did. Cutler was poked and prodded, but spare me the violins about how the Broncos treated him terribly. I don't buy it. He got treated like an employee, which he is.

I don't write this morning to say Denver won the trade. Not at all. I'll never praise trading a 25-year-old quarterback coming off a 4,000-yard season and possessing the best arm in football. And I'll continue to say the Broncos acted precipitously. They should have let this thing simmer for the next two or three weeks, accept no phone calls from any team, and then, the weekend before the draft, if Cutler was still not to be mollified, then deal him. April 22, fine. April 2 ... what's the rush?

For now, I'll declare the two winners to be the Bears, and Orton. The only way I'll call Denver a winner in this is if they use eight primo picks -- five picks in the top 2.5 rounds of this draft, and three more in the first two rounds next year -- to rebuild a patchwork defense. That's a tall order for any team, because there's usually a 50-percent washout factor with the high picks in any draft. But McDaniels, to show Denver fans and his own locker room that he was the right man for the job, has to make chicken salad with these draft picks out of the chicken-feathers situation that resulted in Cutler getting dealt.

The Bears finally have the quarterback they've longed for, and no price was going to be too high to get him. If anyone thinks the Bears paid too much, let me show you the 16 men who have been first-round picks for the Bears in the last 15 drafts: John Thierry, Rashaan Salaam, Walt Harris, John Allred, Curtis Enis, Cade McNown, Brian Urlacher, David Terrell, Marc Colombo, Michael Haynes, Rex Grossman, Tommie Harris, Cedric Benson, Danieal Manning, Greg Olsen, Chris Williams. Let's eliminate judging the last two, from 2007 and 2008, because they don't have enough on their resumes yet. Let's look at the other 14.

Stars: 1 (Urlacher).

Very good NFL starters: 1 (Tommie Harris).

NFL starters: 2 (Walt Harris, Marc Colombo).

To be determined: 1 (Manning).

Had some moments, but ultimately failed: 3 (Grossman, Thierry, Haynes).

Busts: 6 (Salaam, Allred, Enis, McNown, Terrell, Benson).

Four of the 14 became consistent NFL starters, or better. An awful, awful track record. That is why Angelo, a career scout who has too often loved draft picks more than A-Rod loves himself, wasn't very emotional talking to me about what he gave up.

"I've kind of changed about draft choices, particularly first-rounders,'' Angelo told me. "I don't have the same conviction on ones that I used to. It's the money, the totally unrealistic expectations, players coming out younger and not as experienced, players with too much time on their hands and too much money and not being grounded enough. I've become a little pragmatic about the first-round picks. They've been looked at like the Holy Grail for so long. Here, we had a chance to get a quarterback who's already shown he can play really well in the league. He's a guy with resilience; you've got to be resilient playing at Vanderbilt and succeeding John Elway. So we felt like it was a good investment for us. Time will tell.''

That's the sign of a smart general manager. I didn't think Angelo had this kind of move in him, dealing a marginal starting quarterback and three high picks, leaving his team without a first-round pick for two straight years. But it's a gamble any smart GM would make.

Now for Orton. His first words to McDaniels illustrate the kind of sponge and -- the Broncos hope -- player he'll be in Denver, I think. "I just want to have an opportunity to compete for the job and help the team win,'' Orton told McDaniels.

Orton flew to Denver early Friday to meet everyone in the building, and later in the day was waiting at the airport in Denver to fly home when I reached him. He returned to Denver Sunday night, and he'll be a full-timer in the offseason program, competing with Chris Simms -- and maybe, though I doubt it, a first-round quarterback if McDaniels finds one he loves in the draft. I asked Orton why he said what he said first of all to McDaniels.

"It's all I've ever wanted,'' he said. "It's all I ever asked for in college or here. As long as I have a fair chance, I can deal with whatever the coach decides.''

I found it interesting that Orton was so happy Friday night. Here he was, going from a team with a pretty good defense and a needy offense, where he was the no-doubt starter, to a team where he's the favorite to win the starting job, but nothing will be handed to him.

"It's the offense,'' he said. "I've watched it. I love it. The spread -- or at least, the multifaceted part of it -- really appeals to me. You change from game to game, and you do whatever gives your team the best chance to win that Sunday. That's the way an offense should be. But it counts on the quarterback to be smart at the line of scrimmage, and to make good decisions, and to be accurate. I think those are traits I have.''

Maybe, but he hasn't shown the accuracy in Chicago that he'll have to show in Denver. In 33 career games, he's completed just 55.3 percent of his throws. If that continues, McDaniels will have a new quarterback playing by December. But Orton will have two things he never had in Chicago -- time to throw (young tackles Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris are the best young pair of outside blockers in football), and talent to throw to; Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal, arguably, are the best young bookend receivers in the games. "When I found out about the trade,'' Orton said, "I was extremely happy. Everyone knows about Denver's talent on offense.''

As a coach, McDaniels has had great success helping his quarterbacks (Brady, Cassel) move the chains in New England. If he can pass that along to Orton, the offense shouldn't be what loses games for Denver. Now the new coach who's taken the great gamble better hope he can draft defensive players. It's only his job that hangs in the balance.

silkamilkamonico
04-06-2009, 01:44 AM
So here it is.....


In all the years Bowlen has owned the team, he has never felt quite the disrespect from a player or coach that he felt from Cutler ignoring his attempts to speak to him to attempt to bridge the problems between player and team. And you cannot underestimate how significant this was in Bowlen's Tuesday night pronouncement that Cutler was being put up on the trading block.

The comparison of Brady never in a million years ignoring Robert Kraft is a glaring one as well.

Shazam!
04-06-2009, 01:47 AM
Great read.

silkamilkamonico
04-06-2009, 01:52 AM
McDaniels is doing a fantastic job and staying committed to working with the players that are currently involved in the teams offseason program, as well as keeping eyes open on prospects for the upcoming draft.

In a serious note I'm getting more and more respect for him daily and am so excited to see what kind of team makeup and personality he's going to bring to us.

The initial hardcore perception McDaniels is giving to the players is softening significantly to the players that are showing their commitment ot the organization, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if by the time regular season rolls around he has a great relationship with all of them.

"You show me, and I'll show you."

Love it.

Shazam!
04-06-2009, 02:02 AM
I know I am one of the few, but aside from the Cutler nonsense I absolutely love McDaniels. When he speaks it's "Win, Win, team, Win" and if he thinks he can win with Orton in his system, with his track record I'll believe it. He knows QBs, he knows offense. I also like Orton's talk thus far, he wants to be here and if he is committed to getting better that's all we can ask for. The addition of Nolan to fix the defense is an improvement in itself and the FAs they've gotten I think will work out, especially Fields.

I also like the way they seemed shrewd in dealing such a sought after commodity in Cutler. "You've got a half hour" and the fact that things just kept moving on in Dove Valley speaks a lot about how the organization is run, it speaks volumes.

Dirk
04-06-2009, 05:58 AM
Good reads! :salute:

Over the last few days I am starting to come around a little more than I was at first, second and even third.

The more I read about Cutty the more I can't stand him. I was one of his biggest supporters too! :tsk:

As I said in another thread, if he didn't want to man up and be the leader of the offense and at least showed some kind of desire to be in Denver, he needed to go!

I also am coming around to Orton. Although I don't think he is a star by no means, I do like his humble, team attitude! I hope he succeeds for us!! :salute:

Elevation inc
04-06-2009, 06:12 AM
he makes some valid points, but it still his version, so is it really acurate...


in any case whats done is done. Cutler is off to be a bear, and we have kyle orton and chris simms battling it out in TC for the starting Gig.

The good news is the winner will have earned it thats for sure, so that could be good overall for the team.

I also agree with king that orton is the guy MCD wanted, out of the qb's available. Hopefully he is as good with Qb's as he thinks he is.

If he is then we will be looking to win next year. The important thing is these upcoming draft picks. We have so much need on defense that we would be stupid to draft a first rd Qb or trade up.

Seriously we can win next year, with a elite run game, average defense and average offense. Im not stoked about cutler being gone, but i also am smart enough to realize that orton just landed in the perfect situation.


He does very well when he has adequate weapons around him, and when he has time to throw. couple that with a decent run game, and a defense that can control tempo at times, and we could be on our way.

now superbowl is proablly a little unrealistic, especially with our schedule, but who knows maybe MCD ends up being as good as he thinks he is.


I do like how the office took care of buisness quickly to focus on the draft, and how even during all this they were still focused on private workouts as well, that speaks volumes towards the effort. while neither xanders or MCd is expirienced in talent evaluating for the draft, 1 can not fault the effort they are putting in....

All in all we could have been alot worse off. lets just pray we use our top 5 picks on defense and a RB.......:salute:

claymore
04-06-2009, 06:13 AM
The key to the trade was Kyle Orton. Laugh if you want, but it's the absolute truth. McDaniels looked hard at tape of the available quarterbacks from teams that made serious offers, players like Orton, Washington's Jason Campbell and Tampa Bay's Luke McCown. Every one of those teams was in the ballpark with an offer of at least two first round draft picks and a quarterback.

But as the deal went down, McDaniels, who watched every offensive snap of more than 10 Bears games with Orton playing, got more and more impressed with Orton's arm, his decision-making and his ability to extend plays when the pocket broke down. You can think and I can think it's crazy he didn't like Campbell -- who got Washington off to a 6-2 start last year -- more than he liked Orton, but it's the unvarnished truth. McDaniels thinks he can win with Orton.


This impressed me. I hope McD has a chance to get some sleep this week. This shit had to be stressful as hell.

BeefStew25
04-06-2009, 07:07 AM
Man we will see who made out better on the trade. Good luck guys!

BeefStew25
04-06-2009, 07:15 AM
This impressed me. I hope McD has a chance to get some sleep this week. This shit had to be stressful as hell.

What? That a coach watches film?

claymore
04-06-2009, 07:27 AM
What? That a coach watches film?

I guess he had more advanced notice that the Bears were players in this. But watching every snap from the 08 season on Orton and probably the other QB's involved had to take awhile.

According to the article no team, coach, draft etc... meeting was put off because of this, so it took allot of personal time to say the least.

BeefStew25
04-06-2009, 07:31 AM
I guess he had more advanced notice that the Bears were players in this. But watching every snap from the 08 season on Orton and probably the other QB's involved had to take awhile.

According to the article no team, coach, draft etc... meeting was put off because of this, so it took allot of personal time to say the least.

Well, Clay, you are talking like McD is a Downs kid and you and patting him on the back for not drooling on himself.

He better have looked at tape if he wanted Orton from us. That is kind of his job.

Traveler
04-06-2009, 07:32 AM
The key to the trade was Kyle Orton. Laugh if you want, but it's the absolute truth. McDaniels looked hard at tape of the available quarterbacks from teams that made serious offers, players like Orton, Washington's Jason Campbell and Tampa Bay's Luke McCown. Every one of those teams was in the ballpark with an offer of at least two first round draft picks and a quarterback.

But as the deal went down, McDaniels, who watched every offensive snap of more than 10 Bears games with Orton playing, got more and more impressed with Orton's arm, his decision-making and his ability to extend plays when the pocket broke down.

You can think and I can think it's crazy he didn't like Campbell -- who got Washington off to a 6-2 start last year -- more than he liked Orton, but it's the unvarnished truth. McDaniels thinks he can win with Orton.

No mention of Brady Quinn? Hmmm...

Tned
04-06-2009, 07:36 AM
I know I am one of the few, but aside from the Cutler nonsense I absolutely love McDaniels. When he speaks it's "Win, Win, team, Win" and if he thinks he can win with Orton in his system, with his track record I'll believe it. He knows QBs, he knows offense. I also like Orton's talk thus far, he wants to be here and if he is committed to getting better that's all we can ask for. The addition of Nolan to fix the defense is an improvement in itself and the FAs they've gotten I think will work out, especially Fields.

I also like the way they seemed shrewd in dealing such a sought after commodity in Cutler. "You've got a half hour" and the fact that things just kept moving on in Dove Valley speaks a lot about how the organization is run, it speaks volumes.

I'm definately in the camp of "hoping for the best, preparing for the worst." I am hoping that McDaniels is as smart as he thinks he is (and apparently Bowlen thinks he is). I would love for McDaniels to be so successful that he is the Broncos head coach for the next 14 years.

I remain convinced that he screwed the pooch as a rookie head coach, because part of his job is mending fences, not throwing gas on the fire. However, now we get a chance to see if he is the great QB moulder that he thinks he is. see whether or not he can turn Orton or Simms into a productive, winning QB.

It reminds me a little of when the Mets trade Scott Kazmir, the hottest young arm in their minor league teams for Victor Zambrano, because the Mets pitching coach said that regardless of Zambrano's struggles, he liked what he saw and that if they "gave him 5 minutes with Zambrano, he would make him a winner". Less than 12 months later, Zambrano was cut from the Mets and Kazmir is now a star for TB.

Sometimes coaches are smarter and think they can turn anyone into a star. I hope that isn't the case with McDaniels. I hope that he wasn't so eager to prove that he, not the star QB, would be credited for his success in Denver, that he went off half cocked.

Time will tell.

claymore
04-06-2009, 07:37 AM
Well, Clay, you are talking like McD is a Downs kid and you and patting him on the back for not drooling on himself.

He better have looked at tape if he wanted Orton from us. That is kind of his job.

Well, my assumption was that he was a downs kid, so all of this is a good surprise to say the least. :D

BeefStew25
04-06-2009, 07:39 AM
Well, my assumption was that he was a downs kid, so all of this is a good surprise to say the least. :D

Good point. I bet he touches himself 8-10 times a day.

claymore
04-06-2009, 07:40 AM
Good point. I bet he touches himself 8-10 times a day.

Who doesnt? :eek:

Medford Bronco
04-06-2009, 11:26 AM
This stood out the most to me


Should McDaniels have lied about that? Maybe. But the Broncos once tried to trade John Elway to Washington, and Elway had to come back to the team knowing Dan Reeves wanted to deal him. They were never best friends, but Elway didn't go on strike like Cutler did. Cutler was poked and prodded, but spare me the violins about how the Broncos treated him terribly. I don't buy it. He got treated like an employee, which he is.

Its called being a professional Jay, Like Elway was and you were not and IMHO you will never be. :coffee:

Northman
04-06-2009, 11:46 AM
This stood out the most to me



Its called being a professional Jay, Like Elway was and you were not and IMHO you will never be. :coffee:


What do you know? Shocking how that works right?

broncohead
04-06-2009, 11:47 AM
This stood out the most to me



Its called being a professional Jay, Like Elway was and you were not and IMHO you will never be. :coffee:

Don't be butt hurt because he didn't want to play for your team anymore. Elway wouldn't play for the team who drafted him remember?

Northman
04-06-2009, 11:54 AM
Don't be butt hurt because he didn't want to play for your team anymore. Elway wouldn't play for the team who drafted him remember?

Yea, but at least Elway was honest about that. :rolleyes:

Broncolingus
04-06-2009, 11:55 AM
Who doesnt? :eek:

I DO! I DO!

Whoa...wait - did I just post that?

I mean...err...no, hold on...

Medford Bronco
04-06-2009, 01:21 PM
Yea, but at least Elway was honest about that. :rolleyes:

and the team that was to draft Elway moved in the middle of the night
so they could "sneak" out of Baltimore to get to Indy.

Elways problem was with Irsay that POG.

Also at the end of Elways career he gave back money under the cap to try to win a Championship, Do you think Bus Cook would allow Cutler to do that?

You mean cut from my clients bottom line to make my team better?
Never, never, never.

In-com-plete
04-06-2009, 01:36 PM
As a coach, McDaniels has had great success helping his quarterbacks (Brady, Cassel) move the chains in New England. If he can pass that along to Orton, the offense shouldn't be what loses games for Denver. Now the new coach who's taken the great gamble better hope he can draft defensive players. It's only his job that hangs in the balance.

Was the offense what lost games for us last year?

MadMax
04-06-2009, 02:41 PM
Was the offense what lost games for us last year?

I think all he's saying is that even if our offense takes a step back without Cutler, with all the weapons plus McD's (supposed)know how it should still be one of the better offenses in the NFL.

Simple Jaded
04-06-2009, 03:11 PM
I don't know what's more pathetic.......that Doogie thinks Orton is the answer, or that he took less in return to get him.

This guy is an F'ing idiot.......

CoachChaz
04-06-2009, 03:30 PM
I don't know what's more pathetic.......that Doogie thinks Orton is the answer, or that he took less in return to get him.

This guy is an F'ing idiot.......

Less in return? Good luck finding a better deal for a whiner that doesnt want to be there.

Simple Jaded
04-06-2009, 03:32 PM
Less in return? Good luck finding a better deal for a whiner that doesnt want to be there.

Less in return means he rejected better offers.......Any more questions?

BeefStew25
04-06-2009, 03:32 PM
I am a weeklong Bears fan, and I really think you guys got a super deal considering you had to move him. I think the 5th was kinda lame that you guys gave us, but seeing as how you got that for Colbert, you did not really earn it anyway.

CoachChaz
04-06-2009, 03:36 PM
Less in return means he rejected better offers.......Any more questions?

Seriously? Failed attempts at sarcastic wit aside, do you really think the team would accept a lesser offer than what they did, just because of spite or idiocy? If there is any kind of evidence this happened, please fel free to share it. Otherwise, go find a Bears forum to spew your hatred for the team

BeefStew25
04-06-2009, 03:40 PM
Seriously? Failed attempts at sarcastic wit aside, do you really think the team would accept a lesser offer than what they did, just because of spite or idiocy? If there is any kind of evidence this happened, please fel free to share it. Otherwise, go find a Bears forum to spew your hatred for the team

Chaz you are better than that. You sound like that fellow MiseryBronc.

Asan aside, do you agree with McDaniels liking Orton over Jason Campbell?

CoachChaz
04-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Chaz you are better than that. You sound like that fellow MiseryBronc.

Asan aside, do you agree with McDaniels liking Orton over Jason Campbell?

Absolutely. I like Orton over Campbell, so I guess it works that way. When the Skins selected Campbell with the pick we traded them, I remember thinking "Better them than us".

I think Orton has more intangibles. He's smarter, more decisive and actually has a system that he can thrive in. Campbell has probably peaked.

underrated29
04-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Chaz you are better than that. You sound like that fellow MiseryBronc.

Asan aside, do you agree with McDaniels liking Orton over Jason Campbell?



I dont. I like campbell more than orton. i still think orton will be good here, and he is not the chump that most think he is. But campbell IMO has a stornger arm, can run better and is stronger in the pocket. Plus he as a 1st rdr.

But if Mcd sees orton as a better fit, well, he knows his system better than i do, so i will take his word for it.

BeefStew25
04-06-2009, 03:46 PM
I hear you Chaz. I am not sold on black or darker skinned hispanic QB's.

CoachChaz
04-06-2009, 03:46 PM
I dont. I like campbell more than orton. i still think orton will be good here, and he is not the chump that most think he is. But campbell IMO has a stornger arm, can run better and is stronger in the pocket. Plus he as a 1st rdr.

But if Mcd sees orton as a better fit, well, he knows his system better than i do, so i will take his word for it.

I think that's the thing that McD kind of avoids to an extent. it seems he likes pocket passers that make good decisions. So, if he has a guy that understands he isn't mobile and isnt going to complete the 70 yard bomb regularly, then he can teach him to thrive in a spread offense.

The flip side...Orton has a much stronger arm than he is given credit for. He's not going to tattoo your chest, but he isnt floating anything either

silkamilkamonico
04-06-2009, 03:48 PM
Jason Campbell has a s-l-o-w-e-r release than Byron Leftwich, which is why Washington is doing everything they can to move on at the QB position now.

underrated29
04-06-2009, 03:49 PM
Gawd do you remember when Jake would float those passes. They would hang for like 7 seconds. I still am surprised we didnt lose more guys to injury from having to hang out for the ball.

CoachChaz
04-06-2009, 03:51 PM
Gawd do you remember when Jake would float those passes. They would hang for like 7 seconds. I still am surprised we didnt lose more guys to injury from having to hang out for the ball.

That's what Lelie was for. Fly down the field and catch the butterflies

topscribe
04-06-2009, 03:56 PM
I think that's the thing that McD kind of avoids to an extent. it seems he likes pocket passers that make good decisions. So, if he has a guy that understands he isn't mobile and isnt going to complete the 70 yard bomb regularly, then he can teach him to thrive in a spread offense.

The flip side...Orton has a much stronger arm than he is given credit for. He's not going to tattoo your chest, but he isnt floating anything either

Orton himself said he has thrown the ball 74 yards. Compare that to Favre's
77, Peyton Manning's 68, and Brady's 67, according to past QB competitions.
The difference, of course, is deep accuracy, at which Orton has struggled,
but he has also improved at it since his arrival in the league. Accuracy can be
developed; distance cannot, for the most part.

Speaking of accuracy, that is one thing Simms really has going for him. Watch
this: :shocked:

CVG6FFWykH4

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underrated29
04-06-2009, 04:01 PM
i love those. they are sick! (that means really neat TOP)


But i dont think they are real.

MOtorboat
04-06-2009, 04:03 PM
Speaking of accuracy, that is one thing Simms really has going for him. Watch
this: :shocked:

CVG6FFWykH4

Um, top, you know that that was like the Gatorade commercials with Vick throwing the ball like 180 yards...right...

topscribe
04-06-2009, 04:04 PM
Um, top, you know that that was like the Gatorade commercials with Vick throwing the ball like 180 yards...right...

Well, you can fool some of the people some of the time . . . :D

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topscribe
04-06-2009, 04:06 PM
i love those. they are sick! (that means really neat TOP)


But i dont think they are real.

That's what they said about my wife.

*only her husband knows for sure*

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Medford Bronco
04-06-2009, 04:07 PM
Jason Campbell has a s-l-o-w-e-r release than Byron Leftwich, which is why Washington is doing everything they can to move on at the QB position now.

You mean he should be pitching for some MLB today like Leftwich who is "Brad Penny like" is his release :lol:

weazel
04-06-2009, 04:08 PM
I hear you Chaz. I am not sold on black or darker skinned hispanic QB's.

I have been meaning to ask, how do you guys keep those pointy white hats on?

TXBRONC
04-06-2009, 04:09 PM
Orton himself said he has thrown the ball 74 yards. Compare that to Favre's
77, Peyton Manning's 68, and Brady's 67, according to past QB competitions.
The difference, of course, is deep accuracy, at which Orton has struggled,
but he has also improved at it since his arrival in the league. Accuracy can be
developed; distance cannot, for the most part.

Speaking of accuracy, that is one thing Simms really has going for him. Watch
this: :shocked:

CVG6FFWykH4

-----

Chris can make all the throws, he's just not very mobile from what I remember of him.

pnbronco
04-06-2009, 04:11 PM
Wow Top that is .....:eek: I wonder what would of happened if he had not ruptured his spleen, we may find out. Glad to see you posting again, I've miss your insight.

UR I'm so proud of you, I know this is hard on you but your looking for the good as are all of us.

Beefy thanks for making me laugh you are something special and honey check out the goalie for Phoenix, Montoya,a hottie for sure.

Coach you are a good guy and have share a lot of great info, thanks.

Silk I liked the article thanks for posting it....

topscribe
04-06-2009, 04:12 PM
Chris can make all the throws, he's just not very mobile from what I remember of him.

Are you kidding? He runs a 4.3 40. :nod:























*Ummm . . . that's 4.3 yards in 40 seconds*



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pnbronco
04-06-2009, 04:15 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

OK guys now that I said something to all the guys on that page the rest of you come out. MB do not crush my dreams dude I need them, I really, really do.

Med well what can I say you my best hockey bud out of state, UR you noticed I said out of state and I don't think ECF posts here. Weazel there are just no words for you and TX, the voice of reason, later boys, got to sew.....:D

weazel
04-06-2009, 04:28 PM
no words for me??

pnbronco
04-06-2009, 04:37 PM
no words for me??

I could never match witts with you, I'm just too slow to keep up with you...
(Pointy white hats....)

Northman
04-06-2009, 06:50 PM
and the team that was to draft Elway moved in the middle of the night
so they could "sneak" out of Baltimore to get to Indy.

Elways problem was with Irsay that POG.

Also at the end of Elways career he gave back money under the cap to try to win a Championship, Do you think Bus Cook would allow Cutler to do that?

You mean cut from my clients bottom line to make my team better?
Never, never, never.

Interestingly enough i was talking to one of my uncles and he said that the problem wasnt so much Irsay as it was some guy named Thomas who kept getting in the way of the negotiations. Evidently at some point they were pretty close to a deal until Thomas kept stirring the pot and giving attitude which helped John decide to get traded.

Medford Bronco
04-06-2009, 10:09 PM
Interestingly enough i was talking to one of my uncles and he said that the problem wasnt so much Irsay as it was some guy named Thomas who kept getting in the way of the negotiations. Evidently at some point they were pretty close to a deal until Thomas kept stirring the pot and giving attitude which helped John decide to get traded.

Mine is just my theory Northman. I was all of 12 years old at the time and I was just glad that Elway ended up on the Orange team that was on TV that sometimes played in the snow.

weazel
04-06-2009, 10:14 PM
that video is hilarious, who thought that was real?

rcsodak
04-06-2009, 11:06 PM
Don't be butt hurt because he didn't want to play for your team anymore. Elway wouldn't play for the team who drafted him remember?

You do understand that your point is totally unrelated, yes?

Hope your butt's ok, as well. :rolleyes:

rcsodak
04-06-2009, 11:09 PM
Was the offense what lost games for us last year?

I really hope you're being bocefus!

Have you looked back to how FEW of points cut-n-run'er scored in the losses?

Being #2 in the league (in yards) doesn't mean jack if you can't score points.

But he's GREAT in the fantasy football arena!!!!! :elefant:

Medford Bronco
04-06-2009, 11:10 PM
I really hope you're being bocefus!

Have you looked back to how FEW of points cut-n-run'er scored in the losses?

Being #2 in the league (in yards) doesn't mean jack if you can't score points.

But he's GREAT in the fantasy football arena!!!!! :elefant:

Yes as long as you dont get minus points for turnovers :lol: