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broncos3089
03-16-2012, 06:01 PM
I think we should forget about Manning and let's make a strong defense!

SR
03-16-2012, 06:02 PM
Wrong. Next thread please.

Northman
03-16-2012, 06:03 PM
I think we should forget about defense and offense and build a strong special teams.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-16-2012, 06:07 PM
nobody cares.

claymore
03-16-2012, 06:08 PM
I think we should draft more WR's to block for Tebow.

hotcarl
03-16-2012, 06:10 PM
i think we should hire pouncey

MileHighCrew
03-16-2012, 06:11 PM
i think we need more front office people to fill a larger plane

wayninja
03-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Let's continue to woo manning even after he signs with another team.

claymore
03-16-2012, 08:16 PM
Let's continue to woo manning even after he signs with another team.

We will be too busy coming up with non commital niceties about Tebow.

turftoad
03-16-2012, 08:17 PM
Most of us have always woood Manning, even when he was a Colt and always probably will no matter where he ends up.
He's a 4 time MVP of the league. He's a perrenial ProBowler. He's arguably the best QB to ever play the game.

You should woo him too.

Oh, you cant see straight cuz Tebow is blocking your view. Sorry

Shazam!
03-16-2012, 08:30 PM
Most of us have always woood Manning, even when he was a Colt and always probably will no matter where he ends up.
He's a 4 time MVP of the league. He's a perrenial ProBowler. He's arguably the best QB to ever play the game.

You should woo him too.

That was before he had a bum neck. This is now.

Despite what Drs say, it remains to be seen how he will be affected when he gets whacked around.

But that apparently doesnt matter, because Im a Tebow fanboi.

BroncoStud
03-16-2012, 08:31 PM
Most of us have always woood Manning, even when he was a Colt and always probably will no matter where he ends up.
He's a 4 time MVP of the league. He's a perrenial ProBowler. He's arguably the best QB to ever play the game.

You should woo him too.

Oh, you cant see straight cuz Tebow is blocking your view. Sorry

Funny, I didn't see one reference to Tebow in his post... Is it POSSIBLE that some smart people don't think spending $30 MILLION A YEAR on a 36 year old QB is not a good thing??? And guess what, it doesn't have anything to do with Tebow.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 08:45 PM
We will be too busy coming up with non commital niceties about Tebow.

I was wondering when someone would make this about Tebow, I just had no idea it would be you!

wayninja
03-16-2012, 08:46 PM
Most of us have always woood Manning, even when he was a Colt and always probably will no matter where he ends up.
He's a 4 time MVP of the league. He's a perrenial ProBowler. He's arguably the best QB to ever play the game.

You should woo him too.

Oh, you cant see straight cuz Tebow is blocking your view. Sorry

LMAO, you guys are really hung up on Tebow... it must really piss you guys off that we'll be stuck with him.... HAHAHAHA.

Medford Bronco
03-16-2012, 08:53 PM
I think we should forget about defense and offense and build a strong special teams.

I think we should get the best kicker and best punter in the league :lol:

Medford Bronco
03-16-2012, 08:54 PM
LMAO, you guys are really hung up on Tebow... it must really piss you guys off that we'll be stuck with him.... HAHAHAHA.

When we are 6-10 next year, it wont be so funny, scoring 14-16 PPG and praying for our defense to carry us. it is not a good thing.

Medford Bronco
03-16-2012, 08:56 PM
Most of us have always woood Manning, even when he was a Colt and always probably will no matter where he ends up.
He's a 4 time MVP of the league. He's a perrenial ProBowler. He's arguably the best QB to ever play the game.

You should woo him too.

Oh, you cant see straight cuz Tebow is blocking your view. Sorry

maybe he was hit with one of Tebows out patterns that missed his Wr, when sitting in the stands.

I cant get over 47completion percentage. That is pathetic in the pass first league now

wayninja
03-16-2012, 08:58 PM
When we are 6-10 next year, it wont be so funny, scoring 14-16 PPG and praying for our defense to carry us. it is not a good thing.

Yawn... Just like there's no way we'll make the playoffs, or beat the steelers.

Did you happen to make any predictions after week 5 last year? Care to share?

Medford Bronco
03-16-2012, 09:03 PM
Yawn... Just like there's no way we'll make the playoffs, or beat the steelers.

Did you happen to make any predictions after week 5 last year? Care to share?

a fluke win over Pitt. and some of the craziest wins of all time like Vs chicago and Miami. If you think that is going to happen again
I would play the lottery and you might be a millionaire.

and yes I was wrong and was happy the flukes happened. I just dont see it long term. What a stick in the mud I am, oh well.

I think it is terrible i want us to be like the late 90s Broncos and not like the last 4-5 years. We were 8-8 and that is a fact.

so one fluke win vs a team that had an injured QB and played one of the dumbest defensive games of all time is not a confidence builder.

NE with their wretched defense held us to 10 pts. one of the worst pass defenses of al time and we sucked vs it.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 09:07 PM
a fluke win over Pitt. and some of the craziest wins of all time like Vs chicago and Miami. If you think that is going to happen again
I would play the lottery and you might be a millionaire.

Your analogy is both confusing and intriguing. Why would it be me winning the lottery?

Oh, and yeah, LMAO at you pumping your fist and declaring lighting can't strike twice or five times.

Medford Bronco
03-16-2012, 09:16 PM
Your analogy is both confusing and intriguing. Why would it be me winning the lottery?

Oh, and yeah, LMAO at you pumping your fist and declaring lighting can't strike twice or five times.


Okay I am going to agree to disagree with you. I knowe you must think i am a sucky poster, which is fine.

on the analogy, you would have a better chance to win the lottery than Tebow win a Super Bowl with 47.5 competion percentage like last year.

I think in the 30 plus years of watching football, a lot of strange things happned to us, which i enjoyed it for what it was, but dont expect it to happen again
in a flukey way like it did.

I miss the old Bronco days of Elway and even Plummer. Tebow should be so lucky to be as good as Plummer some day.

Shazam!
03-16-2012, 09:23 PM
Some of you talk like tim will never, ever improve. He's 24 years old for crying out loud.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 09:27 PM
Okay I am going to agree to disagree with you. I knowe you must think i am a sucky poster, which is fine.

on the analogy, you would have a better chance to win the lottery than Tebow win a Super Bowl with 47.5 competion percentage like last year.

I think in the 30 plus years of watching football, a lot of strange things happned to us, which i enjoyed it for what it was, but dont expect it to happen again
in a flukey way like it did.

I miss the old Bronco days of Elway and even Plummer. Tebow should be so lucky to be as good as Plummer some day.


I don't judge you on how articulate you are, I just don't get why my personal luck has anything to do with it. What I would find more unlikely, is if Timmy has exactly a 47.5% completion percentage next season.

Medford Bronco
03-16-2012, 09:43 PM
I don't judge you on how articulate you are, I just don't get why my personal luck has anything to do with it. What I would find more unlikely, is if Timmy has exactly a 47.5% completion percentage next season.

i was trying to make an analogy. I guess i failed again. oh well...........

and Shazam I like you very much but I agree to disagree on Tebow. I dont see him ever being a 60% completion percentage QB and a top 5 QB in the league. It is just my op. It is not gospel or fact.

I miss the Broncos of the 96-98 years. We are not even a shell of that. I live it every day here in NE and want to puke really on how good they are and we are not even close to them.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 10:00 PM
i was trying to make an analogy. I guess i failed again. oh well...........

and Shazam I like you very much but I agree to disagree on Tebow. I dont see him ever being a 60% completion percentage QB and a top 5 QB in the league. It is just my op. It is not gospel or fact.

I miss the Broncos of the 96-98 years. We are not even a shell of that. I live it every day here in NE and want to puke really on how good they are and we are not even close to them.

That's fine, and you certainly may be right, what I don't get is walking away from a winning QB. Even if it defies logic, you simply don't walk away from the table while you are on a hot streak.

Medford Bronco
03-16-2012, 10:01 PM
That's fine, and you certainly may be right, what I don't get is walking away from a winning QB. Even if it defies logic, you simply don't walk away from the table while you are on a hot streak.

I respect your opinion but 8-8 with losing 4 of 5 games to me is not a hot streak.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 10:07 PM
You are forgetting that half of those losses are without Tebow being the starter. You can't really pin those on him. 1 of those wins too.

So 7-4 if you are talking regular season and 8-5 with playoffs. That's really not that bad considering we won 3 games last year.

Keep in mind it's our first playoff game since 2005! Pretty decent for a guy without a camp as the starter.

Shazam!
03-16-2012, 10:12 PM
I miss the Broncos of the 96-98 years. We are not even a shell of that. I live it every day here in NE and want to puke really on how good they are and we are not even close to them.

We will likely never see another Broncos team that good again, even if they won a couple of SBs. Those Broncos had star power all over the place.

Peyton will NOT rekindle those days. This team has a ton of holes on O and D ans needs major upgrades.

Pudge
03-16-2012, 10:19 PM
I'm sick of people who despise Tebow, and people who are glued to his golden ****. Let's hope for Manning and if it doesn't pan out, then watch Tebow dazzle or shoot himself in the foot..

Dapper Dan
03-16-2012, 10:20 PM
Is it alright if I like Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow? Or should I just get the **** out?

wayninja
03-16-2012, 10:21 PM
Is it alright if I like Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow? Or should I just get the **** out?

Liking Manning seems mandatory. Liking Tebow is like painting a target on your back.

Aggregate the two? You are alright, I guess.

Dapper Dan
03-16-2012, 10:25 PM
Liking Manning seems mandatory. Liking Tebow is like painting a target on your back.

Aggregate the two? You are alright, I guess.

I've always liked Peyton. If healthy, he's the third best QB in the league in my opinion. Also, I see no reason to trade Tebow considering Peyton could go down any second. Tebow is a decent QB and will only get better.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 10:29 PM
I've always liked Peyton. If healthy, he's the third best QB in the league in my opinion. Also, I see no reason to trade Tebow considering Peyton could go down any second. Tebow is a decent QB and will only get better.

I've never understood being good and being liked. Aaron Rogers is a stud and I hate his freaking guts. Don't know why, just don't like the dude.

But agree about Tebow. As has been the case, think he's better than given credit for. Seems silly to be defending a pretty raw QB with little FO support, never going into a camp or a season as a starter and still winning a playoff game against a great defense, but here we are.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 10:33 PM
Just a little perspective, because I see it tossed around so much. The difference between where tebow ended (46.5% completion) and 50% completion, is 3.5 catches.

No joke.

Npba900
03-16-2012, 10:35 PM
Let's continue to woo manning even after he signs with another team.

Let's make Tebow switch to TE then try to move up in the draft with our first pick and sign a REAL QB!!!:D

Npba900
03-16-2012, 10:45 PM
When we are 6-10 next year, it wont be so funny, scoring 14-16 PPG and praying for our defense to carry us. it is not a good thing.

If Tebow can't move the offense (convert 3rd downs) to allow the defense to rest and score enough points to take the pressure off the defense........the defense will come to loathe Tebow at QB and will simply wear down over the course of a 16 game season.

Dapper Dan
03-16-2012, 10:45 PM
I've never understood being good and being liked. Aaron Rogers is a stud and I hate his freaking guts. Don't know why, just don't like the dude.

But agree about Tebow. As has been the case, think he's better than given credit for. Seems silly to be defending a pretty raw QB with little FO support, never going into a camp or a season as a starter and still winning a playoff game against a great defense, but here we are.

Lol. I like any great player that may come to Denver.

Actually, I'm a UT fan, so I've always liked Peyton.

MOtorboat
03-16-2012, 10:48 PM
Liking Manning seems mandatory. Liking Tebow is like painting a target on your back.

Aggregate the two? You are alright, I guess.

A ridiculous assertion, of course.


Just a little perspective, because I see it tossed around so much. The difference between where tebow ended (46.5% completion) and 50% completion, is 3.5 catches.

No joke.

The reason for that is the number of passes, which of course incorporates a number of things - his affinity to actually throw the ball and passes called, which of course goes back to the coach's confidence in Tebow to throw the football and complete the pass (not the other way around, which is ridiculously thrown around as an excuse).

Npba900
03-16-2012, 10:50 PM
maybe he was hit with one of Tebows out patterns that missed his Wr, when sitting in the stands.

I cant get over 47completion percentage. That is pathetic in the pass first league now

In 2012, Tebow had better get his completion percent up to at 56-58 percent while throwing the ball 20-30 times a game or in 2013 Elway will ship Tebow out of town and draft a QB no.1 to replace Tebow.

MOtorboat
03-16-2012, 10:52 PM
In 2012, Tebow had better get his completion percent up to at 56-58 percent while throwing the ball 20-30 times a game or in 2013 Elway will ship Tebow out of town and draft a QB no.1 to replace Tebow.

It's not completion percentage, though that is representative of the problem.

It's about seeing a quarterback understand what he's seeing when he drops back to pass and then delivering that pass timely, accurately and consistently. Tebow, at this point, possesses none of those things.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 10:54 PM
A ridiculous assertion, of course.

Which part?




The reason for that is the number of passes, which of course incorporates a number of things - his affinity to actually throw the ball and passes called, which of course goes back to the coach's confidence in Tebow to throw the football and complete the pass (not the other way around, which is ridiculously thrown around as an excuse).

3.5 is 3.5. A smaller sample size just makes the number less significant, not more, regardless of you want to try to spin it. You can't really penalize the guy for 'coaches confidence'. Coaches have been wrong before and not giving him an opportunity to throw shouldn't really be counted as an auto failure. Besides, the strategy seemed to work more often than not.

But c'mon, MO, you can do better than that. Why not say 3.5 completions is like 2 KC games. That at least would be funny.

Broncos Mtnman
03-16-2012, 11:05 PM
Tebow should be so lucky to be as good as Plummer some day.

Kills me to say it, but I'd take Plummer right now, TODAY over Tim the Terrible.

:eek:

MOtorboat
03-16-2012, 11:07 PM
Which part?

3.5 is 3.5. A smaller sample size just makes the number less significant, not more, regardless of you want to try to spin it. You can't really penalize the guy for 'coaches confidence'. Coaches have been wrong before and not giving him an opportunity to throw shouldn't really be counted as an auto failure. Besides, the strategy seemed to work more often than not.

But c'mon, MO, you can do better than that. Why not say 3.5 completions is like 2 KC games. That at least would be funny.

Unfortunately for your argument, I just did the math. 3.5 catches gets him all the way to 47.6 percent, from the 46.5 percent where he ended up this season.

So that's kind of a huge math fail on your part. He completed 126 of 271 for 46.5. 129 of 271 is 47.6. He needed to complete at least nine more passes to get to 50 percent.

Of course, that is magnified by only throwing 271 passes.

Had he thrown 600 passes as a previous quarterback once did, the difference between 46.5 and 50 gets larger from 279 to 300, a difference of 21 completions.

Now, if we really want to get to the meat, we can talk about 60 percent, where average quarterbacks fall. To get to 60 percent with the number of passes he threw he would have needed to complete 163 passes. That's 34 passes, or 3 passes or more per game. Like it or not, that's very significant. Had he attempted 600 passes he would have needed to complete 81 more passes than what his completion percentage would have averaged out to, to reach 60 percent.

Do you see why this IS a large issue? It's a passing game. You pass to win. It's a BIG deal.

wayninja
03-16-2012, 11:10 PM
Unfortunately for your argument, I just did the math. 3.5 catches gets him all the way to 47.6 percent, from the 46.5 percent where he ended up this season.

So that's kind of a huge math fail on your part. He completed 126 of 271 for 46.5. 129 of 271 is 47.6. He needed to complete at least nine more passes to get to 59 percent.

Of course, that is magnified by only throwing 271 passes.

Had he thrown 600 passes as a previous quarterback once did, the difference between 46.5 and 50 gets larger from 279 to 300, a difference of 21 completions.

Now, if we really want to get to the meat, we can talk about 60 percent, where average quarterbacks fall. To get to 60 percent with the number of passes he threw he would have needed to complete 163 passes. That's 34 passes, or 3 passes or more per game. Like it or not, that's very significant. Had he attempted 600 passes he would have needed to complete 81 more passes than what his completion percentage would have averaged out to, to reach 60 percent.

Do you see why this IS a large issue? It's a passing game. You pass to win. It's a BIG deal.

Your right, I fudged my numbers into my calc, I'm totally embarrased, I used 261 instead of 271.

Having said that, you just typo'd too, so I don't feel as bad. You mean get to 50%, not 59%.

Still 9.5 passes isn't all that significant.

Sure getting to 60, is obviously a bigger challenge, and I'm not saying he doesn't have a lot of work to do, but given the number of passes the Broncos receivers dropped (2 receivers in the bottom 15 drop rate), it doesn't seem like it's all that insurmountable with a bit of work.

Dapper Dan
03-17-2012, 12:00 AM
Kills me to say it, but I'd take Plummer right now, TODAY over Tim the Terrible.

:eek:

Terrible? Exaggerate much?

Medford Bronco
03-17-2012, 10:46 AM
It's not completion percentage, though that is representative of the problem.

It's about seeing a quarterback understand what he's seeing when he drops back to pass and then delivering that pass timely, accurately and consistently. Tebow, at this point, possesses none of those things.

You mean not holding the ball and winding up for 2 minutes to throw a 10-15 yard out that wobbles all over the place is not a good thing? :lol:

Medford Bronco
03-17-2012, 10:50 AM
Kills me to say it, but I'd take Plummer right now, TODAY over Tim the Terrible.

:eek:

WOW, Mtn Man. I never thought that would come from you. :lol:

The Fla Gator Broncos fans were not around back then and esp were not around in the pre 2003 when the PI calls were skewed to passing the ball where you
have 3 5000 passers in 1 season. It is insane. and Tebow and his option crap offense will not work in 2012. God I hate that offense. i hated it as a kid watching
ND play, I hated it when Oka used it. It is horrible.

Like I have said, Tebow is a nice person. I dont hate him a a human being, but as an NFL QB, he is way below average. Great post Mtn Man. :salute:

Medford Bronco
03-17-2012, 10:53 AM
Which part?





3.5 is 3.5. A smaller sample size just makes the number less significant, not more, regardless of you want to try to spin it. You can't really penalize the guy for 'coaches confidence'. Coaches have been wrong before and not giving him an opportunity to throw shouldn't really be counted as an auto failure. Besides, the strategy seemed to work more often than not.

But c'mon, MO, you can do better than that. Why not say 3.5 completions is like 2 KC games. That at least would be funny.


Did you watch the KC game and the Buffalo game at the end of the year? He threw in those games and Buffalo was in full quit mode then. He was dreadful and only really had a few good passes vs Pitt that were deep. His short stuff still sucked.

Also in his best game as a Pro, he still was under 50% That is sad really. Pitt played him like a HS QB and even Tebow is better than than. Watch the film.

Nomad
03-17-2012, 11:00 AM
Med.....you gotta let go of the past:). Oh wait....I'm still butthurt because we didn't draft Ngata.:lol:

Mike
03-17-2012, 11:09 AM
I think we should get the best kicker and best punter in the league :lol:

We have one of each that could be included with the leagues best. Too bad we can't get them contracts.

Dzone
03-17-2012, 12:31 PM
It is obvious that Elway thinks that all it takes is a good quarterback to win a Super Bowl
Elway has grossly inflated the importance of the quarterback position in his own mind

Mike
03-17-2012, 01:24 PM
It is obvious that Elway thinks that all it takes is a good quarterback to win a Super Bowl
Elway has grossly inflated the importance of the quarterback position in his own mind

I don't think he has. An elite QB is something every team should covet. Signing Manning alone would have immediately put us in contention given our weak division. But focusing solely on him while completely ignoring the rest of FA is just bad management.

Cugel
03-17-2012, 01:35 PM
Kills me to say it, but I'd take Plummer right now, TODAY over Tim the Terrible.



Wow. Just wow. :eek:

Didn't think I'd ever hear you say that MtnMan. Seriously? Jake Plummer?

You haven't actually shown Jake a lot of love over the years! :laugh:

(Actually I would rather have Jake too).

Nomad
03-17-2012, 01:41 PM
Wow. Just wow. :eek:

Didn't think I'd ever hear you say that MtnMan. Seriously? Jake Plummer?

You haven't actually shown Jake a lot of love over the years! :laugh:

(Actually I would rather have Jake too).

That is blasphemy in the Church of Cutler! mtnman will have to do penance.......10 Our Cutlers and 10 Hail Jay's.:lol:

Cugel
03-17-2012, 01:47 PM
It is obvious that Elway thinks that all it takes is a good quarterback to win a Super Bowl
Elway has grossly inflated the importance of the quarterback position in his own mind

Let's see now. SB winning QBs:

Eli Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning*
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady*
Tom Brady*
Tom Brady*
Kurt Warner*
John Elway*
John Elway*
Brett Favre*
Troy Aikman*
Steve Young*
Troy Aikman*
Troy Aikman*

*Already in Hall of Fame or Certain To Be In As Soon As Eligible

Every one of those guys was/is a top 5 in the league elite QB and most are in the Hall of Fame. It's too soon to tell, but Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rogers may very well all get in as well.

Who did I skip?

Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer

The 2000 Ravens set the modern NFL record for fewest points ever given up by their defense and the 2003 Bucs were behind only the Ravens and the 1985-86 Bears. If you have one of the 2 top defenses since 1985 you can win with a Brad Johnson. Otherwise not. :ranger:

You need an elite QB to win the SB. All the teams agree. That's why they are willing to shell out $110 million to Peyton Manning, despite his being 36 years old and coming off 4 neck surgeries. Because truly elite QBs are rare indeed and finding one through the draft is difficult at best and impossible at worst.

Tebow is not remotely an elite QB and there's no proof he ever will be. That's why Elway and the Broncos are "all in" for Manning and it's obviously the right decision; whatever the Tebowniacs may say. :coffee:

SpringsBroncoFan
03-17-2012, 02:43 PM
I don't think he has. An elite QB is something every team should covet. Signing Manning alone would have immediately put us in contention given our weak division. But focusing solely on him while completely ignoring the rest of FA is just bad management.


It just looks like we are ignoring it, we don't know. Sure taking the jet and leaving the 3 fa's didn't look good but if they sign them, no big deal.

We reached out to Soliai which I think was just determining the market for Bunk. I think Bunk is fine waiting on the team.

I doubt Hochstein goes anywhere and even if we lose a G they can at least be replaced late in the draft with LeRibius or R Johnson.

Who cares if we lose Rosario or Harvey. Woody is gone, perhaps Hagan too... McBean & Willis are restricted so no rush there.

They need to figure out Thomas, Hunter, & Fells but it wouldn't kill me if we lost them.

We sign McClain, Trufant, Hayes to go with Adams. Get Winston I'm happy.

And as soon as I write this I see the Saints have invited Bunkley for a visit... :eek:

wayninja
03-17-2012, 02:47 PM
You mean not holding the ball and winding up for 2 minutes to throw a 10-15 yard out that wobbles all over the place is not a good thing? :lol:

It's an awesome thing, actually. If we got that kind of protection, I'd be comfortable letting my grandmother take some snaps.

Mike
03-17-2012, 03:04 PM
It just looks like we are ignoring it, we don't know. Sure taking the jet and leaving the 3 fa's didn't look good but if they sign them, no big deal.

We reached out to Soliai which I think was just determining the market for Bunk. I think Bunk is fine waiting on the team.

I doubt Hochstein goes anywhere and even if we lose a G they can at least be replaced late in the draft with LeRibius or R Johnson.

Who cares if we lose Rosario or Harvey. Woody is gone, perhaps Hagan too... McBean & Willis are restricted so no rush there.

They need to figure out Thomas, Hunter, & Fells but it wouldn't kill me if we lost them.

We sign McClain, Trufant, Hayes to go with Adams. Get Winston I'm happy.

And as soon as I write this I see the Saints have invited Bunkley for a visit... :eek:

I applaud you in your hope. I have none in the Broncos. It's the same story every year. They are a broke organization with questionable leadership.

broncobryce
03-17-2012, 03:16 PM
I applaud you in your hope. I have none in the Broncos. It's the same story every year. They are a broke organization with questionable leadership.

And even worse fans. (I'm not talking about you)

Simple Jaded
03-17-2012, 06:06 PM
Some of you talk like tim will never, ever improve. He's 24 years old for crying out loud.

Rahim Moore or Robert Ayers could improve too. Hell, the entire team could improve, so what? That's like saying Jay Cutler can improve his personality; even if he wanted to an ******* is still an *******. Joe Mays [/B]could [B]improve in coverage, he's only 26, but the Broncos apparently have turned the page. Where is the ridiculous indignation for poor Joe Mays? I guess that argument is only relevent when it's made for the worst passer in the league.

I just don't get this argument, l don't see a lot of people saying Tebow will never impove. How much he can improve is the question, and given his current level of ability that's an issue best reserved for a backup.......

Simple Jaded
03-17-2012, 06:10 PM
I applaud you in your hope. I have none in the Broncos. It's the same story every year. They are a broke organization with questionable leadership.

Bullshit. I don't deny that the Broncos have money issues but it takes a great leader to make unpopular decisions that have to be made.......

claymore
03-17-2012, 06:10 PM
I was wondering when someone would make this about Tebow, I just had no idea it would be you!

Its better than non commital jabs at his poor QB'ing skillz!!!

Mike
03-17-2012, 06:37 PM
Bullshit. I don't deny that the Broncos have money issues but it takes a great leader to make unpopular decisions that have to be made.......

WTF are you talking about? The only decision they have made is to get into the Manning fray. Other than that they are doing nothing but pulling their pud...same as any off-season. New staff, same story.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 07:28 PM
Its better than non commital jabs at his poor QB'ing skillz!!!

You make enough jabs for the entire organization, clay.

Simple Jaded
03-17-2012, 07:41 PM
WTF are you talking about? The only decision they have made is to get into the Manning fray. Other than that they are doing nothing but pulling their pud...same as any off-season. New staff, same story.

I'm talking about Denver having questionable leadership, it's bullshit.......

wayninja
03-17-2012, 07:43 PM
I'm talking about Denver having questionable leadership, it's bullshit.......

HAHA, ok.

Simple Jaded
03-17-2012, 07:48 PM
HAHA, ok.

Ok, l'll give you Ellis, Bowlen and Xanadu. But they're not in control.......

wayninja
03-17-2012, 07:58 PM
Ok, l'll give you Ellis, Bowlen and Xanadu. But they're not in control.......

Bowlen is not in control?

HAHAHAH, ok.

Medford Bronco
03-17-2012, 07:59 PM
It is obvious that Elway thinks that all it takes is a good quarterback to win a Super Bowl
Elway has grossly inflated the importance of the quarterback position in his own mind

Like I have said in a previous post. Since 2002 the worst QB to win a Super Bowl is either Rothisberger or Eli Manning. He must be overrating it :lol:
2002 was Brad Johnson with a sick defense

here are the rest of the Qbs that are overrating the importance

2003 Brady
2004 Brady
2005 Rothisberger
2006 Peyton Manning
2007 Eli Manning
2008 Rothisberger
2009 Brees
2010 Rodgers
2011 Eli Manning

I would take any of those over 46.5 completion percentage man.
AT least you dont have to pray you have the 1985 Bears, 2000 Ravens or 2002 Buccaneers defense to even have a chance of winning the SB.

This is factual evidence.
There are gurartneed HOFers in Brady and P Manning
Borderline HOFers right now in Brees and E Manning, whiom have a great chance of getting there, esp Brees the only man with 2 5000 yard passing seasons.
another good QB who might get there in Rothisberger.

Hmmmm in a QB driven league I think it is the most important position. no? :confused:

wayninja
03-17-2012, 08:21 PM
Like I have said in a previous post. Since 2002 the worst QB to win a Super Bowl is either Rothisberger or Eli Manning. He must be overrating it :lol:
2002 was Brad Johnson with a sick defense

here are the rest of the Qbs that are overrating the importance

2003 Brady
2004 Brady
2005 Rothisberger
2006 Peyton Manning
2007 Eli Manning
2008 Rothisberger
2009 Brees
2010 Rodgers
2011 Eli Manning

I would take any of those over 46.5 completion percentage man.
AT least you dont have to pray you have the 1985 Bears, 2000 Ravens or 2002 Buccaneers defense to even have a chance of winning the SB.

This is factual evidence.
There are gurartneed HOFers in Brady and P Manning
Borderline HOFers right now in Brees and E Manning, whiom have a great chance of getting there, esp Brees the only man with 2 5000 yard passing seasons.
another good QB who might get there in Rothisberger.

Hmmmm in a QB driven league I think it is the most important position. no? :confused:


How many Superbowls had rothlisburger won prior to 2005? Steelers were idiots to start him that season. :rolleyes:

Medford Bronco
03-17-2012, 08:23 PM
How many Superbowls had rothlisburger won prior to 2005? Steelers were idiots to start him that season. :rolleyes:

He was in his 2nd year. He got the the AFCC game vs NE who won the Super Bowl in his rookie year. You have no clue do you.

Rothisberger is so much better than TEbow will ever be.

He is not morally as good a Tebow as he is a scumbag and potential rapist.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 08:26 PM
How many Superbowls had rothlisburger won prior to 2005? Steelers were idiots to start him that season. :rolleyes:

That's laughable from what we know now.

And, at the time, he was far superior of a quarterback than Tebow is now, which again, makes this laughable. Just for starters his completion percentage was 66 percent his rookie year (2004). Oh, and a rating of 98.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 08:27 PM
He was in his 2nd year. He got the the AFCC game vs NE who won the Super Bowl in his rookie year. You have no clue do you.

Rothisberger is so much better than TEbow will ever be.

He is not morally as good a Tebow as he is a scumbag and potential rapist.

My bad, he sure kicked the shit out of Tebow in that playoff game!

And what year is Tebow in exactly. I know it's his second and all, but it's a second season with half the starting games as most QB's have in their second year playing...

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 08:29 PM
My bad, he sure kicked the shit out of Tebow in that playoff game!

And what year is Tebow in exactly. I know it's his second and all, but it's a second season with half the starting games as most QB's have in their second year playing...

And he was BRUTAL in all but two games. To the point of being epically bad. But the team got lucky in the end.

Medford Bronco
03-17-2012, 08:29 PM
My bad, he sure kicked the shit out of Tebow in that playoff game!

You are probably a 15 year old that had no clue.

He was hurt as well. A lot of Qbs would not have even played that day. You have no clue. Do you have your Fla Gators 15 jersey on.

Medford Bronco
03-17-2012, 08:31 PM
And he was BRUTAL in all but two games. To the point of being epically bad. But the team got lucky in the end.

When your best game of all time has you still completeing less than 50% of your passes, it shows you something right?

bcbronc
03-17-2012, 08:41 PM
Kills me to say it, but I'd take Plummer right now, TODAY over Tim the Terrible.

:eek:

But Timmy is so much more GQ than Jake.

:lol:

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 08:41 PM
When your best game of all time has you still completeing less than 50% of your passes, it shows you something right?

He had the third worst qualified completion percentage in the last 15 years. The two players in front of him? Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf. Craig Whelihan was close, but he was better.

claymore
03-17-2012, 08:43 PM
He had the third worst qualified completion percentage in the last 15 years. The two players in front of him? Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf. Craig Whelihan was close, but he was better.

This sounds nitpicky, but even his completions looked bad. :(

wayninja
03-17-2012, 08:45 PM
You are probably a 15 year old that had no clue.

He was hurt as well. A lot of Qbs would not have even played that day. You have no clue. Do you have your Fla Gators 15 jersey on.

Never watched a Florida (or college for that matter) game in my life and I'm well past 15, I'd love for that to be true.

You have excuses for everyone and everything, I guess I shouldn't be surprised you are so narrow-minded.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 08:46 PM
Heath Shuler was worse in 1994. He became a politician.

Fourth worst qualified in the last 20 years. Stan Gelbaugh was slightly better in 1992.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 08:47 PM
When your best game of all time has you still completeing less than 50% of your passes, it shows you something right?

Apparently it shows YOU something and those of you obsessed with a single stat.

There is only 1 stat I'm interested in even if it causes bile in your throat that it could happen.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 08:47 PM
This sounds nitpicky, but even his completions looked bad. :(

Not really, considering about 25 quarterbacks qualify a year, so we're talking about the fourth worst completion percentage for the last 500 quarterback years on record...

claymore
03-17-2012, 08:48 PM
Not really, considering about 25 quarterbacks qualify a year, so we're talking about the fourth worst completion percentage for the last 500 quarterback years on record...

Oh I concuur, He is terrible. I cant believe its debatable.

chazoe60
03-17-2012, 09:17 PM
Completion percentage is all you guys ******* talk about. Blah blah blah blah.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 09:23 PM
Completion percentage is all you guys ******* talk about. Blah blah blah blah.

I outlined why it matters last night.

It DOES matter.

Timmy!
03-17-2012, 09:25 PM
MO, tell us how u feel about Tebow.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 09:27 PM
MO, tell us how u feel about Tebow.

Love the kid. Lots of heart, clearly a leader. Love to root for him.

But, unlike most, I'm not blinded by that.

chazoe60
03-17-2012, 09:29 PM
I outlined why it matters last night.

It DOES matter.
It does matter but it's not the end all be all. Really yards and comp % are about the only complaints that can be thrown at Tebow right now. I get that he is not accurate but I also think a lot of his incompletions are intentional throw-aways to avoid TOs. I see his comp% being much closer to 55% next season.

Just get so sick of the absolutes thrown around by people. Jesus, we just had the most entertaining season pf Bronco football in a long time. We beat the punk ass Stealers in one helluva emtertaining game in the playoffs. And all we can talk about is how "terrible" our QB is because his completion % was low. ******* ridiculous.

This ******* discussion is what is "terrible".

Timmy!
03-17-2012, 09:30 PM
Love the kid. Lots of heart, clearly a leader. Love to root for him.

But, unlike most, I'm not blinded by that.

Ud make a good politician. I hope we somehow get the forehead. To much sitting in our asses so far for me. If we don't at least get McClain I'm going to lose it.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 09:39 PM
It does matter but it's not the end all be all. Really yards and comp % are about the only complaints that can be thrown at Tebow right now. I get that he is not accurate but I also think a lot of his incompletions are intentional throw-aways to avoid TOs. I see his comp% being much closer to 55% next season.

Just get so sick of the absolutes thrown around by people. Jesus, we just had the most entertaining season pf Bronco football in a long time. We beat the punk ass Stealers in one helluva emtertaining game in the playoffs. And all we can talk about is how "terrible" our QB is because his completion % was low. ******* ridiculous.

This ******* discussion is what is "terrible".

It's WHY the completion percentage is so low which is bothersome, not necessarily the completion percentage itself (though that is what is referenced when talking about it).

chazoe60
03-17-2012, 09:51 PM
It's WHY the completion percentage is so low which is bothersome, not necessarily the completion percentage itself (though that is what is referenced when talking about it).

And I completely understand that concern, I really do. I watch the games and I sigh and shake my head with every bad pass just like everybody else. But I also see the good passes and the amazing plays. I see the way he plays at the end of games and hold out hope he can play more like that for the entire game when he gains experience and gets better at the things he obviously needs to get better at.

I just don't see giving up on a guy like him. My stance on him has not changed. I believe Tebow will never look like a normal QB. He will never have the type of numbers most elite QBs do. But, because of the other things he brings to the table I believe whatever team decides to stick with him will win a lot of games. I've seen very few players with as strong a clutch ability as him. I haven't been as confident at the end of games since Elway was here, I'll reiterate, I don't think uou just give up on that.

Now, with that said I am also praying we bring in Manning. It's not esry offseason you get the chance to bring in a top 5 all time QB. We have to try and make that happen. But, if it doesn't happen I pray we stick with Tebow for at least another year.

Dapper Dan
03-17-2012, 10:17 PM
Steve Young was a bad quarterback who got his start in the CFL and USFL. Then he became a bust in Tampa and replaced by Vinny Testaverde. Young was criticized for continually completing less than 55% of his passes. But he had great natural abilities. He sat behind a great Quarterback in San Francisco. After being back up for 3 years he finally got his start. Then he stayed the starting quarterback and the Niners won another Super Bowl a few years later. Steve Young was a terrible quarterback with a bad passing percentage. But now I've seen lists that have him rated as a better player than...dun dun dunnnn... John Elway. Blasphemy. Oh and I compared Tebow to a Hall of Famer. Double Blasphemy!

Manning is great. Tebow just needs time to improve. Why don't you guys mellow out? Be like the hippies on the streets of Boulder.

jhildebrand
03-17-2012, 10:22 PM
This was the first year since 2005 that this team wasn't making excuses for not making the playoffs! Like it or not, Tebow took a 1-4 team to the PO's and WON a game-when the schedule got the hardest (something people comepletely feared). I don't get why so many people want to write that off after having a guy in Orton who could make all the throws, had great footwork, and "all he does is win :rolleyes:" Then there was Cutler who has all the tools imaginable but is questionable between the ears. With BOTH of those guys we blamed the D, blamed injuries, blamed coaching, calls, etc...

With Tebow so many want to do the opposite: cite luck and dish the credit elsewhere. Personally I would think more would want to see ONE season of the guy as the unquestioned starter to see what he can do.

I posted this team would win if he was starting. I posted the running game would improve. I posted our Defense would respond and improve. I posted this team would do well. It all happened. I don't get what is so bad about the guy (outside of the fanboi side show). I really don't. He won a PO game against the league's best D in 15 games! Peyton took 6 years to win his first PO game and that team was MUCH BETTER than this Broncos team.

I feel for the kid. I know he will be successful as a QB, be it here or elsewhere.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 10:33 PM
This was the first year since 2005 that this team wasn't making excuses for not making the playoffs! Like it or not, Tebow took a 1-4 team to the PO's and WON a game-when the schedule got the hardest (something people comepletely feared). I don't get why so many people want to write that off after having a guy in Orton who could make all the throws, had great footwork, and "all he does is win :rolleyes:" Then there was Cutler who has all the tools imaginable but is questionable between the ears. With BOTH of those guys we blamed the D, blamed injuries, blamed coaching, calls, etc...

With Tebow so many want to do the opposite: cite luck and dish the credit elsewhere. Personally I would think more would want to see ONE season of the guy as the unquestioned starter to see what he can do.

I posted this team would win if he was starting. I posted the running game would improve. I posted our Defense would respond and improve. I posted this team would do well. It all happened. I don't get what is so bad about the guy (outside of the fanboi side show). I really don't. He won a PO game against the league's best D in 15 games! Peyton took 6 years to win his first PO team and that team was MUCH BETTER than this Broncos team.

I feel for the kid. I know he will be successful as a QB, be it here or elsewhere.

This is it exactly. We finally get what we've been asking for for years, a playoff appearance, and all we can do is crucify (yes, a pun is intended) the guy under center. It's sorta sickening.

jhildebrand
03-17-2012, 10:36 PM
People want to focus on completion percentage and look at everything as if it all exists in a vacuum alone in space and time. Orton's 3rd down percentage sucked too! Go look. Orton had tons of sub 55% completion games.

Tebow took the exact same-no make that less talented (departure of Lloyd)-team and did in 11 games what Orton couldn't do in 34! Cutler, despite all his off the charts awesomeness, couldn't do.

But hey throw the baby out with the bathwater.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 10:41 PM
Steve Young was a bad quarterback who got his start in the CFL and USFL. Then he became a bust in Tampa and replaced by Vinny Testaverde. Young was criticized for continually completing less than 55% of his passes. But he had great natural abilities. He sat behind a great Quarterback in San Francisco. After being back up for 3 years he finally got his start. Then he stayed the starting quarterback and the Niners won another Super Bowl a few years later. Steve Young was a terrible quarterback with a bad passing percentage. But now I've seen lists that have him rated as a better player than...dun dun dunnnn... John Elway. Blasphemy. Oh and I compared Tebow to a Hall of Famer. Double Blasphemy!

Manning is great. Tebow just needs time to improve. Why don't you guys mellow out? Be like the hippies on the streets of Boulder.

There are tons more Akili Smiths and Ryan Leafs than there are Steve Youngs.

I'm getting tired of people comparing him to Young. Young was not a terrible quarterback. At least not in the realm of Smith, Leaf and Tebow. He just wasn't.

Tebow doesn't just "need time to improve." it's his third damn year. Shit or get off the pot.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 10:47 PM
There are tons more Akili Smiths and Ryan Leafs than there are Steve Youngs.

I'm getting tired of people comparing him to Young. Young was not a terrible quarterback. At least not in the realm of Smith, Leaf and Tebow. He just wasn't.

Tebow doesn't just "need time to improve." it's his third damn year. Shit or get off the pot.

It's his 3rd year? I guess because of my math screw up last night, I gotta give you a pass on that one...but we are even now.

2012 - 2010 = 2.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 10:48 PM
It's his 3rd year? I guess because of my math screw up last night, I gotta give you a pass on that one...but we are even now.

2012 - 2010 = 2.

We are heading into Tebow's third year.

That's a fact. Enough of the "BUT, he's virtually a rookie!" bullshit.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 10:51 PM
We are heading into Tebow's third year.

That's a fact. Enough of the "BUT, he's virtually a rookie!" bullshit.

Sure, we are 'heading into', but not there yet. So.... 2nd year.

And sorry, but him not having played a full season or gone into either season as a start DOES matter. You're being stubborn if you won't admit it. I'm not claiming he's a rookie, but he also doesn't have a full 2 seasons as the starter under his belt, that's just a fact.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 10:54 PM
Sure, we are 'heading into', but not there yet. So.... 2nd year.

And sorry, but him not having played a full season or gone into either season as a start DOES matter. You'r being stubborn if you won't admit it. I'm not claiming he's a rookie, but he also doesn't have a full 2 seasons as the starter under his belt, that's just a fact.

Really? Check out Aaron Rodgers' first year starting. 63.6 percentage, 28 touchdowns and 4,000 yards.

Y'all love to compare him to Rodgers, because Rodgers sat. There's reality. Year two? 64 percent, 4,400 yards and 3 touchdowns.

jhildebrand
03-17-2012, 10:54 PM
There are tons more Akili Smiths and Ryan Leafs than there are Steve Youngs.

I'm getting tired of people comparing him to Young. Young was not a terrible quarterback. At least not in the realm of Smith, Leaf and Tebow. He just wasn't.

Tebow doesn't just "need time to improve." it's his third damn year. Shit or get off the pot.

Akili Smith got how long to start and prove himself? :confused: When did he win his first PO game again? What about Young? When did that first PO win come again?

The fact is the guy in 15 games has a PO win against the LEAGUE's best defense! If we are going to focus solely on numbers i.e. comp % than let's focus solely on results too! Those are results that speak more to the Steve Youngs of the NFL than the Akili Smith's

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 10:57 PM
Akili Smith got how long to start and prove himself? :confused: When did he win his first PO game again? What about Young? When did that first PO win come again?

The fact is the guy in 15 games has a PO win against the LEAGUE's best defense! If we are going to focus solely on numbers i.e. comp % than let's focus solely on results too! Those are results that speak more to the Steve Youngs of the NFL than the Akili Smith's

Exactly.

You skew a couple of wins to fit hall of famers and not the reality of watching him throw and comparing comparable statistics.

I wish that shit mattered too.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 10:59 PM
Really? Check out Aaron Rodgers' first year starting. 63.6 percentage, 28 touchdowns and 4,000 yards.

Y'all love to compare him to Rodgers, because Rodgers sat. There's reality. Year two? 64 percent, 4,400 yards and 3 touchdowns.

Not to take anything away from Rogers, but are you really comparing that team to the 2011 broncos? That's like trying to compare Tebow to Young...

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 11:00 PM
Not to take anything away from Rogers, but are you really comparing that team to the 2011 broncos? That's like trying to compare Tebow to Young...

So, wait, we can, or we can't compare?

wayninja
03-17-2012, 11:01 PM
Exactly.

You skew a couple of wins to fit hall of famers and not the reality of watching him throw and comparing comparable statistics.

I wish that shit mattered too.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter. Championships are dependent on completion percent and wins are just stat filler.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 11:03 PM
So, wait, we can, or we can't compare?

You can, just do so evenly. In that season, how many close games was Rogers able to steal on his way to a 6-10 record?

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 11:03 PM
Unfortunately it doesn't matter. Championships are dependent on completion percent and wins are just stat filler.

You're right. Passing ability doesn't really matter.

MOtorboat
03-17-2012, 11:04 PM
You can, just do so evenly. In that season, how many close games was Rogers able to steal?

So, when the stats are superior, we count wins, but when the stats are inferior, we tout how good Tebow is?

wayninja
03-17-2012, 11:05 PM
So, when the stats are superior, we count wins, but when the stats are inferior, we tout how good Tebow is?

No. We simply count wins. You count all that other bullshit.

wayninja
03-17-2012, 11:05 PM
You're right. Passing ability doesn't really matter.

If you win games, this is absolutely true. Passing ability only counts insofar as you win. If you don't win, it's academic nonsense.

hotcarl
03-17-2012, 11:33 PM
Everyone should kill themselves

wayninja
03-17-2012, 11:57 PM
You heard the man. Gentlemen, it's been an honor posting with you tonight.

Dapper Dan
03-18-2012, 12:22 AM
Akili Smith
Games played 22
Games started 17
Passing: 5 tds 13 ints 46.6% 2212 yards 3-14
Rushing: 1 td 371 yds 19 fumbles

Ryan Leaf
Games played 25
Games started 21
Passing: 14 tds 36 ints 48.4% 3666 yds 4-17
Rushing: no tds 127 yds 24 fumbles

Tim Tebow
Games played 23
Games started 14
Passing: 17 tds 9 ints 47.3% 2383 yds 8-6
Rushing: 12 tds 887 yds 15 fumbles

Steve Young
First 2 seasons
Games played 19
Games started 19
Passing: 11 tds 21 ints 52.9% 3217 3-16
Rushing: 6 tds 658 yds 15 fumbles



The only..ONLY stat that is negative about Tebow when compared to the rest, is completion percentage. That's why it's the ONLY stat you use to define a QB. It doesn't take any talent whatsoever to throw touchdown passes, limit INTs, or to win games. Really?



Nonetheless, none of these guys are Peyton Manning. That's why I want a great QB and a good replacement ready. I'm pretty sure we could afford to keep Tebow.

I just hope people don't trash Tebow if/when Manning wins games in Denver. Manning made guys like Blair White and Austin Collie look like all-pros. Even our guys can't drop a perfect Peyton Manning throw.

Maybe if Manning comes, Tebow could meet up with David Cutcliffe. The guy is a genius.

jhildebrand
03-18-2012, 12:58 AM
wins and losses have always gone on the QB and Coach almost exclusively. In the case of Tebow the opposite is happening. People want to pin the loss on him but give all credit for wins elsewhere. You can't have it both ways.

jhildebrand
03-18-2012, 01:04 AM
Most of us have always woood Manning, even when he was a Colt and always probably will no matter where he ends up.
He's a 4 time MVP of the league. He's a perrenial ProBowler. He's arguably the best QB to ever play the game.

You should woo him too.

Oh, you cant see straight cuz Tebow is blocking your view. Sorry

I was ok with the courtship of Manning. I wasn't when I knew the cost would be too much (which was apparent at least to me early on). I don't want Manning if he becomes a 1 man team like he was in Indy. I don't want Manning if he is OUR entire cap. That's the way it is shaking out. I sat through the bullshit that was Josh McFrigginDaniels! This team is Finally in a position to build a real and true foundation on both sides of the ball and Elway has Manning-wood!

Sorry but Elway is the one who can't see straight cuz Tebow is blocking the view. He is soooooo stuck on Teebs DESPITE he and everyone else KNOWING and remembering that this team not only has HOLES but DEPTH issues! How is Manning, one man, going to fix that? :confused:

jhildebrand
03-18-2012, 01:10 AM
Exactly.

You skew a couple of wins to fit hall of famers and not the reality of watching him throw and comparing comparable statistics.

I wish that shit mattered too.

Wins are wins. Tebow has a winning record. I guess we could apply the bull crap Orton line to him too. you know the one that is "all he does is win."

He hasn't Leaf'd on a reporter in the locker room. He hasn't Carr'd out with sacks. He hasn't disappeared unnoticed into oblivion like Akili.

More importantly he hasn't Manning'd for the first 6 years of PO's. Nope. He chose to beat the league's #1 D instead of crapping his pants.

How'd he do it? By protecting the ball! The most important thing in this league. For every poor completion % stat, there is another shining stat that can be pointed to that counters it.

At the end of the day there are only results. The results are a winning record, a home playoff game, and a win! I personally would love to see another year with him unquestioned. Problem is Elway either ruined that this year or come contract time.

dogfish
03-18-2012, 01:10 AM
so. . . which of you guys is out-sarcasming the other?

jhildebrand
03-18-2012, 01:13 AM
so. . . which of you guys is out-sarcasming the other?

Clearly not me :D The O'Hara's is kicking my arse now.