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View Full Version : Who got the better deal? Broncos or Bears.



Timmy!
04-03-2009, 01:27 AM
No matter how you feel about Jay, Mcdufus, etc. Simple question. Who got the better deal? Sports Center poll has it 52-48 Broncos in the overall vote. Damn near dead even. Althougth, 37 states say Denver, where only 3 states say Chicago. Personally, I'm going to say push, for now. Both teams got what I consider to be an upgrade. The Broncos advantage might be a bit more spread out though with the additional 1st round pick not taking effect on the team for 12 months (then again we could always trade it right?).

Who ya got?

Northman
04-03-2009, 01:28 AM
I think it will come down to how our draft pans out. If we have a lot of reaches and our team doesnt improve over last year it could be a failure for Denver. However, if the draft is strong and we improve than i think it will be a success.

As for Cutler, will be interesting to see how he deals with a line that isnt that great at protecting their Qb. However, he will have a legit running threat to help him out. No real WR core but a familiar face in Bennett should keep his eyes locked like he did with Marshall. Whether or not Bennett has Marshall's ability we will have to wait and see.

EMB6903
04-03-2009, 01:29 AM
Chicago... As expected

silkamilkamonico
04-03-2009, 01:29 AM
Works out great for both teams I believe.

Clayton made an interesting comment in talking about the NFCNorth. Said the Bears have the best QB in the division along with the Packers and Aaron Rodgers.

He actually compared Cutler's talent and place in the NFL as very similar to Aaron Rodgers.

Still can't stand the act he pulled in Denver the last couple months, but I will be rooting for him in Chi town.

Shazam!
04-03-2009, 01:29 AM
Technically Denver raped them. Da Bears gave up more than Denver did for Elway.

You'll never get a straight unbiased opinion from this either. The Cutler homers will say Denver got schooled, the Cutler shipperouters will say Denver got away with a lot. I think they did (see reference) but everyone knows where I stand on the issue.

honz
04-03-2009, 01:31 AM
I voted push, but I would still like you to hold me tight, TImmy.

OrangeHoof
04-03-2009, 01:41 AM
There seems to be no lack of opinions whether you look at a Bronco board, a Bears board or just general NFL fans. Their verdict is mixed which should tell you that it was a fair and credible trade for both sides. Obviously, one side or the other can still make this a lopsided trade but, on the surface, both sides appeared to have held their own. The Bronco fans will need to be more patient than the Bears fans in determining whether the deal was a good one or not.

Timmy!
04-03-2009, 01:45 AM
There seems to be no lack of opinions whether you look at a Bronco board, a Bears board or just general NFL fans. Their verdict is mixed which should tell you that it was a fair and credible trade for both sides. Obviously, one side or the other can still make this a lopsided trade but, on the surface, both sides appeared to have held their own. The Bronco fans will need to be more patient than the Bears fans in determining whether the deal was a good one or not.

Which is why I made this poll :D Should be a very interesting response once enough people vote

No matter what anybody thinks, or how you feel in your heart, this has been one hell of an offseason Now, we get to look forward to a draft where the Bronco have more ammo than they have had in...well...I can remember in my 28 years.

ktrain
04-03-2009, 02:04 AM
we ass raped da bears. Orton will be a better QB straight up than Cutler

Cutler = modern day Jeff George without Shanny

All bets are off, however, if Shanny ends up in Chicago

LoyalSoldier
04-03-2009, 02:13 AM
I can't say till I see who we pick. If we blow these picks then Chicago by a landslide.

Bozo Jr.
04-03-2009, 02:28 AM
What the hell.....I'm a Denver fan! Of course we got "D" better end of the deal. Bring in the "Crush". :defense:

topscribe
04-03-2009, 02:28 AM
Where is the "Timmy, I'm not scared, but I still want you to hold me" option?

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NameUsedBefore
04-03-2009, 02:28 AM
Chicago.


Just said this on the Mane but basically we didn't get enough picks, or actual players, to soften the reality of having to actually get another QB. Nevermind that picks still have to be made and made correctly.

Chicago, on the other hand, basically paid a 1st, 3rd, and a player they weren't going to keep anyway for Cutler. I cut out the other first because they would have inevitably used it on another QB anyway.


Take relativity out of the matter and it's a push. Put it in and Chicago got everything they could have possibly wanted and Denver lost a QB and got some very nice looking mystery boxes.

EMB6903
04-03-2009, 02:57 AM
Technically Denver raped them. Da Bears gave up more than Denver did for Elway.

You'll never get a straight unbiased opinion from this either. The Cutler homers will say Denver got schooled, the Cutler shipperouters will say Denver got away with a lot. I think they did (see reference) but everyone knows where I stand on the issue.

That was a completely different era, times have changed a lot since then...

I guess you could call me a Cutler homer just because I disagree with the fact that we "raped them"

They walk away with a proven talent and a franchise Quarterback thats 25 years old...

Den21vsBal19
04-03-2009, 03:10 AM
Ask again in January...........

Chicago have got a good prospect with a flaky temperament, we've got a QB who may or may not suit McD's scheme, and draft picks that haven't yet been cashed in........let's see where it goes

lex
04-03-2009, 03:14 AM
LOL. Some of you are so delusional.

Elevation inc
04-03-2009, 04:00 AM
as long as we dont draft mark sanchez at 12 i will be happy, do you realize the money we would have tied up in the QB position, yet none of the qb's are franchise caliber...capable yes, but franchise? doubtful.....


we can win some with orton and simms in a spread offense, if we really want that franchise guy we can wait till next year for a beastly QB class......and Qb's that have actually played more than just 1 year of college ball.



1. DE/OLB Everette Brown/Maybin/English
1. RB Donald Brown/ Knowshon moreno
2. S Rashad Johnson/Smith/Chung/Moore/Martin
3. NT Chris Baker
3. DE/DT Dorrel Scott
4. ILB Scott Mckillop
5. DE/OLB Nick Reed
6. WR Aaron Kelly
7. C/G Dallas Reynolds
7. CB Dwain Crawford


we draft like the above draft and i will feel much better about the whole situation......

Benetto
04-03-2009, 04:04 AM
Here's to Raji and Ray in the first round!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Simple Jaded
04-03-2009, 04:45 AM
Technically Denver raped them. Da Bears gave up more than Denver did for Elway.

You'll never get a straight unbiased opinion from this either. The Cutler homers will say Denver got schooled, the Cutler shipperouters will say Denver got away with a lot. I think they did (see reference) but everyone knows where I stand on the issue.

Technically that's correct, although most considered Elway to be the best prospect ever, he was still just an unproven rookie when that deal was made, if Denver were to deal him after his third year in the league it would have been a totally different story.

Here is unbiased as I can be, you can't get value for a Franchise QB, teams were lining up to get a shot at Cutler, the phones were so busy that teams had to resort to texts and Emails to get a hold of the Broncos since they announced their intentions to trade Cutler for no less than two No1's.......Denver got two average 1st round picks, a pick with a 20% success rate and a Dime-o-Dozen QB.......Chicago got the Deal of a Lifetime.......

Simple Jaded
04-03-2009, 04:47 AM
Here's to Raji and Ray in the first round!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which one plays QB?.......

Elevation inc
04-03-2009, 04:47 AM
Which one plays QB?.......

neither hopefully, defense and a run game plus orton= Championship:D

Timmy!
04-03-2009, 04:49 AM
Here's to Raji and Ray in the first round!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If we got Raji and Ray in the 1st I would cum all over myself. Combine that with Brace in the 2nd and I will die a happy man.

Benetto
04-03-2009, 04:49 AM
Which one plays QB?.......


Trent Dilfer.

Simple Jaded
04-03-2009, 04:50 AM
Chicago.


Just said this on the Mane but basically we didn't get enough picks, or actual players, to soften the reality of having to actually get another QB. Nevermind that picks still have to be made and made correctly.

Chicago, on the other hand, basically paid a 1st, 3rd, and a player they weren't going to keep anyway for Cutler. I cut out the other first because they would have inevitably used it on another QB anyway.


Take relativity out of the matter and it's a push. Put it in and Chicago got everything they could have possibly wanted and Denver lost a QB and got some very nice looking mystery boxes.
Too bad Chicago didn't hire Doogie, could have saved everybody a lot of problems they didn't need.......

Simple Jaded
04-03-2009, 04:50 AM
Trent Dilfer.

Fine with me, it's better than the alternatives.......

Simple Jaded
04-03-2009, 04:52 AM
neither hopefully, defense and a run game plus orton= Championship:D

No offense but you're dreaming, Inc, any other suggestions?.......

Elevation inc
04-03-2009, 04:54 AM
No offense but you're dreaming, Inc, any other suggestions?.......

um hire me to coach, GM, and play QB:D


i very skeptical bro for all the right reasons, hopefully mcdoogie proves us all wrong and playoff football returns.....

Simple Jaded
04-03-2009, 04:56 AM
um hire me to coach, GM, and play QB:D


i very skeptical bro for all the right reasons, hopefully mcdoogie proves us all wrong and playoff football returns.....

If not, hopefully Doogie proves us all right in record fashion and Denver can move on a lot sooner.......

Elevation inc
04-03-2009, 05:02 AM
If not, hopefully Doogie proves us all right in record fashion and Denver can move on a lot sooner.......

that remains true as well.....

this draft is a tell all for me i will no right away just how far they can take this franchsie based on how they play this draft. all eyes are on him and xanders now that the goodmans are gone, and if they dont come out looking pretty from this draft, there will be a devestating fan reaction, to the likes bowlen didnt think was possible.....

Simple Jaded
04-03-2009, 05:16 AM
that remains true as well.....

this draft is a tell all for me i will no right away just how far they can take this franchsie based on how they play this draft. all eyes are on him and xanders now that the goodmans are gone, and if they dont come out looking pretty from this draft, there will be a devestating fan reaction, to the likes bowlen didnt think was possible.....

As Mayock said, I don't care if they got 27 1st round picks, it ain't enough. And it really doesn't matter if they draft three good players with these picks if Doogie fails as a Head Coach.

He is expected to cash in with these picks regardless, imo, it's no different than if we were grading this draft with Cutler still on the team.......the gauge isn't just what he gets in this draft, the way I look at it: Denver traded Jay Cutler for Josh McDaniels.

Doogie has to be an exceptional Head Coach to make this deal even remotely equitable, he's the only reason Cutler is no longer a Denver Bronco, he has to make the deal worthwhile.......

Elevation inc
04-03-2009, 05:27 AM
As Mayock said, I don't care if they got 27 1st round picks, it ain't enough. And it really doesn't matter if they draft three good players with these picks if Doogie fails as a Head Coach.

He is expected to cash in with these picks regardless, imo, it's no different than if he we're grading this draft with Cutler still on the team.......the gauge isn't just what he gets in this draft, the way I look at it: Denver traded Jay Cutler for Josh McDaniels.

Doogie has to be an exceptional Head Coach to make this deal even remotely equitable, he's the only reason Cutler is no longer a Denver Bronco, he has to make the deal worthwhile.......

thats true and i think what bothers me most if is this doesnt work and mcdoogie gets fired, that leaves us mired in medicority with no coach, no franchise Qb, and no set offense, all of what we had before he got here


for him he can just get a new job, but for us if this fails, it will take some serious time to get out from under.....

these types of things can set a franchsie back years, it just was not worth the risk on bowlens part in my mind.

I am quite confident all the mcdoogie lovers will get a little bit of a rude awakening come draft day....but thats just me and my opinion;)

Timmy!
04-03-2009, 05:29 AM
thats true and i think what bothers me most if is this doesnt work and mcdoogie gets fired, that leaves us mired in medicority with no coach, no franchise Qb, and no set offense, all of what we had before he got here


for him he can just get a new job, but for us if this fails, it will take some serious time to get out from under.....

these types of things can set a franchsie back years, it just was not worth the risk on bowlens part in my mind.

I am quite confident all the mcdoogie lovers will get a little bit of a rude awakening come draft day....but thats just me and my opinion;)

Or MdDumbass surprises the crap out of the haters, we draft well, and crow is served? Who knows?

elsid13
04-03-2009, 05:35 AM
Chicago just got stability at most important position on the field. Denver now has to hope it can find it again.

Traveler
04-03-2009, 05:38 AM
Push. As stated earlier, it all depends on who we get with those picks. Truthfully, I don't expect us to win more than six games next year because we are in the process of rebuilding this team. Is anyone else thinking along those lines?

Simple Jaded
04-03-2009, 05:45 AM
Push. As stated earlier, it all depends on who we get with those picks. Truthfully, I don't expect us to win more than six games next year because we are in the process of rebuilding this team. Is anyone else thinking along those lines?

I thought 4-12 would be a possibility even before it was revealed how incredibly stupid the new Head Coach is.......the schedule is absolutely brutal at first blush, the offense is now a huge question mark and the defense is only marginally better.......on the bright side, rumor has it that this new LongSnapper is the real deal.......

Dirk
04-03-2009, 05:45 AM
I voted PUSH.

I'm being optimistic. I HATE the fact that Jay isn't our QB anymore, but as a Broncos fan, I have to be optimistic.

Besides, Orton isn't all that bad. Is he a Cutler...hell no. But, he is a smart QB that can "manage" a game and that is what McD's system needs.

2 first round picks and a 3rd plus Orton and giving Cutler and a 5th is a phenomenal deal.

Will it pan out? Time will only tell. That is why I said push.

Traveler
04-03-2009, 07:14 AM
I voted PUSH.

I'm being optimistic. I HATE the fact that Jay isn't our QB anymore, but as a Broncos fan, I have to be optimistic.

Besides, Orton isn't all that bad. Is he a Cutler...hell no. But, he is a smart QB that can "manage" a game and that is what McD's system needs.

2 first round picks and a 3rd plus Orton and giving Cutler and a 5th is a phenomenal deal.

Will it pan out? Time will only tell. That is why I said push.

I also liked the player and hoped they could bury the hatchet. Now that he's gone, I wish him the best.

As for Orton, he's stop gap at best. This team need to be rebuilt in a new image because they had grown soft and stale. The WCO is so prevelant that everyone could defend against it.

Now, the fiasco that just ended was not how I expected us the begin rebuilding, but were here now and my hope is that as they move forward, the new guys can return this team to elite status in less than 3 years.

Dirk
04-03-2009, 07:25 AM
I also liked the player and hoped they could bury the hatchet. Now that he's gone, I wish him the best.

As for Orton, he's stop gap at best. This team need to be rebuilt in a new image because they had grown soft and stale. The WCO is so prevelant that everyone could defend against it.

Now, the fiasco that just ended was not how I expected us the begin rebuilding, but were he now and my hope is that as they move forward, the new guys can return this team to elite status in less than 3 years.

I agree in part. I am not so sure that McD is thinking that Orton is a stopgap. If he is indeed a game manager and the scouting reports from the past are correct about his decision making and arm strength, he could be the next best thing for McD in place of Cassel.

Again, only time will tell.

CoachChaz
04-03-2009, 07:37 AM
Cutler is the 4th guy EVER to be traded for 2 first rounders and yo could probably look back and say the other 3 werent worth it. (Keyshawn, Ricky and Galloway) The Bears have an aging defense, needs on the line and no #1 or even #2 recievers. Please dont argue that over-the-hill Orlando Pace is a saviour or that the possibility of signing Torry Holt makes huge changes. The Bears are to a degree in worse shape than Denver is. As a result of this trade, the Broncos now have a solid QB to run an offense that doesnt require great talent at the position to equal success. They have 5 of the first 100 draft choices and 2 top choices next year.

With an offense basically already in place, they have the resources to vastly improve the defense and put this Denver team back on the playoff map. Of course, the quality of the draft choices cannot yet be determined, but if they are able to find 3 good to great players, there can be no doubt that Denver got the better end of this deal BY FAR.

But, for those that like to take what the media pundits have to say instead of forming their own, unbiased decision...just listen...they are saying alot of the same things.

BigDaddyBronco
04-03-2009, 07:41 AM
Cutler is the 4th guy EVER to be traded for 2 first rounders and yo could probably look back and say the other 3 werent worth it. (Keyshawn, Ricky and Galloway) The Bears have an aging defense, needs on the line and no #1 or even #2 recievers. Please dont argue that over-the-hill Orlando Pace is a saviour or that the possibility of signing Torry Holt makes huge changes. The Bears are to a degree in worse shape than Denver is. As a result of this trade, the Broncos now have a solid QB to run an offense that doesnt require great talent at the position to equal success. They have 5 of the first 100 draft choices and 2 top choices next year.

With an offense basically already in place, they have the resources to vastly improve the defense and put this Denver team back on the playoff map. Of course, the quality of the draft choices cannot yet be determined, but if they are able to find 3 good to great players, there can be no doubt that Denver got the better end of this deal BY FAR.

But, for those that like to take what the media pundits have to say instead of forming their own, unbiased decision...just listen...they are saying alot of the same things.

I think if Cutler goes into the HOF and the Broncos struggle for a decade then we could argue differently. But in that case my argument would have been against the firing of Shanny, the Broncos now have all the pieces for McDaniels and crew to rebuild the team they want.

It's on his shoulders now.

Fan in Exile
04-03-2009, 07:48 AM
I think that we came out on top with this deal. What has convinced me is all the arguments from the Doogie haters about Orton. I just don't think that the difference between Orton and Cutler is two first rounders.

Is Cutler better, without a doubt but not two first rounders better. I watched the Philly Bears game last night and Orton's not Cutler but as has been said before he's solid.

I also get that the draft picks are unproven however that's the currency of the NFL. By the standards of the way the league operates we did well. You can wish for players all you want but they were never realistically going to be a part of this trade, however long we listened to offers.

I also think that this puts us closer to the Super Bowl than it puts the bears. They are now going to have hard time building up the rest of their roster to get them over the top and we are going to have four number one picks to revamp our defense. If Cutler were the only piece that they needed that would be one thing but they have lots of needs.

Now we could suck at the draft and screw things up but at this point we are looking good.

EastCoastBronco
04-03-2009, 07:50 AM
If we can use those draft picks to build one crazy assed bitch of a defence then it will all be worth it. If we blow half of them on receivers and backs then I will personally beat McMuffin with a Louisville Slugger.

Hobe
04-03-2009, 07:59 AM
Judgment reserved...:coffee:

We won't know until we see the draft picks in action.

CoachChaz
04-03-2009, 08:05 AM
by the way...Maualuga made scouts drool at his Pro Day workout yesterday. Suddenly he's not such a bad option at pick #12

Nomad
04-03-2009, 08:09 AM
Judgment reserved...:coffee:

We won't know until we see the draft picks in action.

True! We won't know until these guys hit the field and play in games. Hopefully McDaniels likes defense because that's what this team needs plus a solid RB.

And Coach, Maualuga would be a great start!!

dogfish
04-03-2009, 08:10 AM
what i'm the only one who's still scared?



:laugh:

CoachChaz
04-03-2009, 08:12 AM
what i'm the only one who's still scared?



:laugh:

No one is saying everything is great...but the chances are much better now.

Tned
04-03-2009, 08:13 AM
I voted push. However, there are two factors that will go a long way in determining how the Broncos come out in this trade.

1. Can Orton or Simms run McD's offense in a competant manner.

2. Do McDaniels and Xanders have the skills/experience to get impact players with the 4 first rounders over the next two years, not to mention the other picks.

Tned
04-03-2009, 08:15 AM
what i'm the only one who's still scared?



:laugh:

I've kind of fallen into a "we're in shambles like following Elway's retirement" mindset, but will now move to a positive, looking forward mode, hoping McDaniels is the boy genius that Bowlen thinks he is -- the next Mastermind.

TXBRONC
04-03-2009, 08:15 AM
I think it will come down to how our draft pans out. If we have a lot of reaches and our team doesnt improve over last year it could be a failure for Denver. However, if the draft is strong and we improve than i think it will be a success.

As for Cutler, will be interesting to see how he deals with a line that isnt that great at protecting their Qb. However, he will have a legit running threat to help him out. No real WR core but a familiar face in Bennett should keep his eyes locked like he did with Marshall. Whether or not Bennett has Marshall's ability we will have to wait and see.

In the long run I agree with you that it will come down to who well McDaniels drafts. I think at present time Chicago is ahead they now have a very good starting quarterback.

CoachChaz
04-03-2009, 08:17 AM
In the long run I agree with you that it will come down to who well McDaniels drafts. I think at present time Chicago is ahead they now have a very good starting quarterback.

...and nothing to do with him. You could put any HOF QB in Chicago right now and put their current talent around them and they'd likely put up Kyle Orton numbers.

TXBRONC
04-03-2009, 08:20 AM
what i'm the only one who's still scared?



:laugh:

In the thread about Jay getting traded you made a terrific point about how with all those picks Denver could actually be better off in the long run but it's far from an absolute certainty.

I'm not going to root for McDaniels to fail, but I think his margin for error has just shrunk considerably.