COMMENTARY: Tebow, a better bet than Manning

[broncobryce]

Statistically, Tebow's among the greats
March 14, 2012 8:53 PM
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DAN CAPLIS
GUEST COLUMNIST

The facts show that Tim Tebow is off to a better start as an NFL quarterback than many of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. Through his first 16 starts, Tebow won more games (9) than Peyton Manning (3), Troy Aikman (3), Steve Young (3), Aaron Rodgers (5), Matthew Stafford (6), Sam Bradford (7), Eli Manning (7), John Elway (8), and Drew Brees (8). Tebow accomplished that with a team that was 1-4 before he took over, and had won only 7 of its last 24 games.

http://www.gazette.com/opinion/tebow-135215-nfl-manning.html

[broncobryce]

Saw this posted on the "other" forum. If it's already been posted here, disregard.

[Medford Bronco]

Statistically, Tebow's among the greats
March 14, 2012 8:53 PM
| Print Story | E-Mail Story
DAN CAPLIS
GUEST COLUMNIST

The facts show that Tim Tebow is off to a better start as an NFL quarterback than many of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. Through his first 16 starts, Tebow won more games (9) than Peyton Manning (3), Troy Aikman (3), Steve Young (3), Aaron Rodgers (5), Matthew Stafford (6), Sam Bradford (7), Eli Manning (7), John Elway (8), and Drew Brees (8). Tebow accomplished that with a team that was 1-4 before he took over, and had won only 7 of its last 24 games.

http://www.gazette.com/opinion/tebow-135215-nfl-manning.html

Right he is better than Elway, Brees, Rodgers and Eli Manning. :lol: If you believe that I have some real quality swampland in Florida you might like.

[Krugan]

I dont think that says he is better, but off to a better start.

Its quite possible he could succeed and become an elite QB, but it seems the he may never get a chance.

The game has changed in the last 30 years, teams dont stick with players and develop them, they dont always get a 2nd contract with the original team.

The instagratification world we live in will see that it only gets worse as time goes on.

(by no way is this an endorsement of anyone in particular nor a degredation of anyone past present or future just an observation on the current state of things, friggin sad I have to add this)

[wayninja]

Personally I feel Tebow kicks ass. I didn't start out a Tebow fan. Cautiously optimistic was the best that could be said of my opinion of him. Throughout his pro-career, he's really made me re-evaluate what I like in a Quarterback.

He does that because what he conventionally brings to the table just sucks. I'll admit it. Traditionally the guy just doesn't have a ton going for him (other than near freakish athleticism for the position). His mechanics are clearly flawed. Mentally he's not quite 'ready'. On paper he looks like he shouldn't even be throwing the ball back to a referee after the play.

But for some reason, when he's on the field, there is just an electricity. It's sorta hard to describe and I think you have to have been watching your favorite team (in this case, the Broncos) your whole life to recognize it when you see it. There is just something strange that he brings to the table that defies attempts to quantify it using numbers.

There is a good chunk of skeptics while simply credit something else or call it fluke luck. And I really do understand that position. When someone like Tebow comes in and shakes your sense of history and experience up like that, it's very hard to accept. And history may prove me an idiot zealot, who knows, I just know that I'm past caring. I have fully embraced our QB because he's winning and there's not much to dislike about him.

Ultimately, I'm proud he's a Bronco. I want to see him succeed and will defend him if I see him unfairly attacked. If this makes me a Teboi, so be it. Know though, that as soon as he's not wearing orange and blue, he's the enemy, even if I still like him and may disagree with the move.

:salute:

[HammeredOut]

They should compare his year 2 stats, with other year 2 players.

[MOtorboat]

Pretty poor analysis.

[Krugan]

getting data base errors when posting, sorry if ive double posted anywhere

[wayninja]

The analysis is really slanted. But since that's pretty much the detractors tactic, I find that it must be fair.

This was written by the antithesis of HammeredOut.

[nevcraw]

works for those of us who believe tebow is just starting out and has a bright future but ofcourse easily refuted by those who think he is a fb or a TE playing QB.. hurry up offseason we all need to be proven right!!

[broncobryce]

Right he is better than Elway, Brees, Rodgers and Eli Manning. :lol: If you believe that I have some real quality swampland in Florida you might like.

Come on, you know it doesn't say he is better. Calm down.

[broncobryce]

They should compare his year 2 stats, with other year 2 players.

You've got google don't ya?

[tomjonesrocks]

Tebow will still get his chance.

Does anyone here still think Peyton won't be a Titan?

[broncs]

good point ,that'll really shut up the antitebowists:)

[iLands]

I was never what you'd call a Tebow fan.

On paper, I hate the kid. On paper, I despise the brand.

I hated him in college. I hated the jump pass. I hated the "Tim Tebow Rule".

I wasn't very happy on draft day.

He's grown on me though. It isn't the wins. It isn't the rushing touchdowns. It isn't that he's been developing ahead of schedule.

All those factors are merely wind in the sails.

I don't know when I changed my mind. It was a continuum.

Most of the weeks were the same. The season had been horrendous. I'm the lone Broncos fan among my group of friends.

Each week my phone would explode. I'd get all manner of expletives, critiques, vitriol, and then, finally, silence.

If they said anything at all, it was all in the same vein, "Wait 'til next week."

With Tebow starting, we have a significant edge that you can't ignore and that isn't represented in any stat sheet.

We are hated. Despised. A loss is a loss the mantra goes. Tell that to anyone we beat with Tebow this year. Some losses hurt more. Sure things evaporate instantly. Teams are afraid to meet us on the gridiron. Fear gnaws at them and grows as the game progresses. I wouldn't want to lose that.

I am thankful for Tim though. Why? As I said, I had hated him viscerally. Primally. Totally.

It was so impossible to have rational discussions with others about my team that I had to venture online. I found you guys.

In retrospect, I believe I hated Tim in college because he was, at the time, a winner. He was ubiquitous. He cried his eyes out and made a promise. Amazingly, he delivered.

I hated that sappy crap.

People tend to discount a lot of things and use some bad stats.

The 1 - 4 bookend is thrown around a lot. In a vacuum, that stat seems meaningful. I think what is discounted is also meaningful. Two of those losses came against the AFC Champs. Not a bad asterisk to have.

When people say our offense from last year is unsustainable in today's NFL, I concur wholeheartedly. Nevertheless, what they discount is that we ran an offense that was installed during bye-week. Some of the most successful elements will exist next year, to be sure, but to claim that we will run the same offense that we developed in a bye-week after a full offseason is ludicrous. It's just another red herring in a full sea.

I'll support our team despite who our quarterback is. I always have and I always will.

I just don't want to lose that fear, that hatred, and that disdain.

It. Is. Beautiful.

[BroncoJoe]

Caplis is definitely a Tebowite. Catch his show on am630 KHOW Pretty sure its streamed.

[BORDERLINE]

They way I see it is Tebow brings HEART to the TEAM. A team that was scrapping the bottom of the NFL last year. Had no real identity and was just decimated by the McDouche debacle. Tebow has brought us back to being relevant, to winning, to the playoffs.

We know his flaws and hope he improves them but even with them HE IS STILL WINNING. I believe because of his HEART and PASSION to play the GAME. I like to see a player with EMOTION pump up his team like HE DOES. Call it RA RA or whatever there is no denying that HE brings a level of energy unmatched and unseen since Elway did the HELICOPTER in Qualcomm.

That energy is contagious on the field. The last year SHANNY was here HILLIS showed the same DRIVE. I really felt HE was gonna be special. And he made the Madden cover. To BAD the city of CLE F'd him up. I would never go to CLE SMH. What i'm trying to say is I (and I'm sure you to) saw HILLIS And the HEART he played with in DENVER. McD had to come and F it up but there was no denying HILLIS was gonna be special. And I see the same in TEBOW (if not more) since HE is the QB. If we could only give him some speed at RB and a solid TE and I'm sure He would do wonders.

[topscribe]

Come on, you know it doesn't say he is better. Calm down.

What does it say, then? It mentions only the single QBs and their W-L record. That might work in tennis, golf, bowling, and blackjack, but there are so many other factors in football that it shapes up to be a very shallow analysis. It doesn't take into account such factors as a defense that kept the score waaaay down in most of those wins, along with such incidents as the opposing RB failing stay in bounds when his team had the game won, 59-yard field goals . . . you know, that kind of thing. Really, it was a pretty silly analysis . . .

[Simple Jaded]

Shit, Kyle Orton has got them all beat.......

[claymore]

Personally I feel Tebow kicks ass. I didn't start out a Tebow fan. Cautiously optimistic was the best that could be said of my opinion of him. Throughout his pro-career, he's really made me re-evaluate what I like in a Quarterback.

He does that because what he conventionally brings to the table just sucks. I'll admit it. Traditionally the guy just doesn't have a ton going for him (other than near freakish athleticism for the position). His mechanics are clearly flawed. Mentally he's not quite 'ready'. On paper he looks like he shouldn't even be throwing the ball back to a referee after the play.

But for some reason, when he's on the field, there is just an electricity. It's sorta hard to describe and I think you have to have been watching your favorite team (in this case, the Broncos) your whole life to recognize it when you see it. There is just something strange that he brings to the table that defies attempts to quantify it using numbers.

There is a good chunk of skeptics while simply credit something else or call it fluke luck. And I really do understand that position. When someone like Tebow comes in and shakes your sense of history and experience up like that, it's very hard to accept. And history may prove me an idiot zealot, who knows, I just know that I'm past caring. I have fully embraced our QB because he's winning and there's not much to dislike about him.

Ultimately, I'm proud he's a Bronco. I want to see him succeed and will defend him if I see him unfairly attacked. If this makes me a Teboi, so be it. Know though, that as soon as he's not wearing orange and blue, he's the enemy, even if I still like him and may disagree with the move.

:salute:

Ive been watching my whole life, and all I hear is Benny Hill music when he takes the field.

[claymore]

What does it say, then? It mentions only the single QBs and their W-L record. That might work in tennis, golf, bowling, and blackjack, but there are so many other factors in football that it shapes up to be a very shallow analysis. It doesn't take into account such factors as a defense that kept the score waaaay down in most of those wins, along with such incidents as the opposing RB failing stay in bounds when his team had the game won, 59-yard field goals . . . you know, that kind of thing. Really, it was a pretty silly analysis . . .

I said the same thing with Orton. It always took some series of unexplainable events to get the win. Immaculate deflection, 2 KR's in one game, a pick six and last second FG, blah, blah, blah. You cannot win like that on a steady basis. You have to put teams away.

People are in love with Tebow because "He just wins", "he is a champion". Its not real. Hes a good kid, but his actual QB'ing skills are absolutley terrible. Im ok with him being a terrible QB, I just dont think he can overcome his shortcomings.

[Northman]

Im a Bronco fan, not just a fan of a player.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think we all need to remember how bad Manning, Brady, Elway etc. looked in their first couple of years. The recognition of what the defense is doing and where people are going to be, just isn't there. Now they all threw better than Tebow and had better mechanics and he might not be able to improve in this area, but he might be able to as well. I fully expect him to develop his recognition and learn defenses and the like, he works hard and has played this game for a long time. I'm not so sure he will ever have great mechanics and be a great passer, but I could be wrong.

I still think people should give him a chance either way. The fringes that think he will be the next Steve Young and the fringes that think he'll be worse than Akili Smith need to take a deep breath and chill the **** out. Let it play out and see what happens.

[BroncoJoe]

I think we all need to remember how bad Manning, Brady, Elway etc. looked in their first couple of years. The recognition of what the defense is doing and where people are going to be, just isn't there. Now they all threw better than Tebow and had better mechanics and he might not be able to improve in this area, but he might be able to as well. I fully expect him to develop his recognition and learn defenses and the like, he works hard and has played this game for a long time. I'm not so sure he will ever have great mechanics and be a great passer, but I could be wrong.

I still think people should give him a chance either way. The fringes that think he will be the next Steve Young and the fringes that think he'll be worse than Akili Smith need to take a deep breath and chill the **** out. Let it play out and see what happens.

This is exactly what should happen, but most have their heels dug in so far it just ain't gonna happen.

[claymore]

I think we all need to remember how bad Manning, Brady, Elway etc. looked in their first couple of years. The recognition of what the defense is doing and where people are going to be, just isn't there. Now they all threw better than Tebow and had better mechanics and he might not be able to improve in this area, but he might be able to as well. I fully expect him to develop his recognition and learn defenses and the like, he works hard and has played this game for a long time. I'm not so sure he will ever have great mechanics and be a great passer, but I could be wrong.

I still think people should give him a chance either way. The fringes that think he will be the next Steve Young and the fringes that think he'll be worse than Akili Smith need to take a deep breath and chill the **** out. Let it play out and see what happens.

I fall in the Akili Smith crowd (obviously). I am hopeful there will be a legit competition in TC. IMO, He got a pass this year over Quin because of his draft status, fans sentiment, and contract.

If for whatever reason Weber, or whatever vet beats him in TC, he needs to ride pine, or be dealt (If possible).

[BigDaddyBronco]

I fall in the Akili Smith crowd (obviously). I am hopeful there will be a legit competition in TC. IMO, He got a pass this year over Quin because of his draft status, fans sentiment, and contract.

If for whatever reason Weber, or whatever vet beats him in TC, he needs to ride pine, or be dealt (If possible).

We know Tebow sucks in practice, right? And even though he can't throw well at times, he did play pretty damn well most of the year and sparked the team to make the playoffs and win against the Steelers. Do you really think we would have been in the same spot with Orton, Quinn, or Weber last year?

[Northman]

I think we all need to remember how bad Manning, Brady, Elway etc. looked in their first couple of years. The recognition of what the defense is doing and where people are going to be, just isn't there. Now they all threw better than Tebow and had better mechanics and he might not be able to improve in this area, but he might be able to as well. I fully expect him to develop his recognition and learn defenses and the like, he works hard and has played this game for a long time. I'm not so sure he will ever have great mechanics and be a great passer, but I could be wrong.

I still think people should give him a chance either way. The fringes that think he will be the next Steve Young and the fringes that think he'll be worse than Akili Smith need to take a deep breath and chill the **** out. Let it play out and see what happens.

I dont think its so much that people arent giving him a chance BDB. Frankly, no one on this board has control over that aspect in terms of what actually happens in Dove Valley. But there are some (myself included) who just dont think he will progress beyond what he has done. And like you, we could be wrong but its just a differing opinion but it isnt like we can control what kind of chances he gets. The bottom line for me as a Bronco fan is if the FO believe they can upgrade any position and feel that (in this case) that Tebow isnt the answer i will support them because they are doing what they believe will make the team better. If they think bringing in Manning will help the team or help Tebow i will take their word over anybody on this forum (not singling you out here). I remember quite a few people backing McDaniels when he traded Cutler by saying that he wasnt obligated to keep him because he didnt draft him. Well, whats changed now? Neither John's drafted Tebow yet unliked McDouche they allowed Tim to play at least before making their decisions. Maybe they are sold on him, maybe not. Either way im fine with their decision just so as long as it makes the team better.

[Northman]

We know Tebow sucks in practice, right? And even though he can't throw well at times, he did play pretty damn well most of the year and sparked the team to make the playoffs and win against the Steelers. Do you really think we would have been in the same spot with Orton, Quinn, or Weber last year?


My answer? Hell No.

But those go to the intangibles that Tebow has. There are a lot of great qualities about Tim i like, but as a pure passer there are a lot of things i really hate and dont feel he will get better at. And i dont think we can simply get by like we did last year playing like that. JMO

[MasterShake]

My answer? Hell No.

But those go to the intangibles that Tebow has. There are a lot of great qualities about Tim i like, but as a pure passer there are a lot of things i really hate and dont feel he will get better at. And i dont think we can simply get by like we did last year playing like that. JMO

That is my biggest fear too. You look at the last 4 games (aside from the Steelers playoff win) and Tebow was shut down pretty effectively. I really like the kid BUT if we continue to struggle in the same areas next year its gonna be a long season. If we don't get Manning, I hope that fire in Tebow turns that inner fire into an unquenchable flamethrower and he just blows the lid off the NFL this year. Either way I'm more excited going into this season than I was anytime with Orton.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I dont think its so much that people arent giving him a chance BDB. Frankly, no one on this board has control over that aspect in terms of what actually happens in Dove Valley. But there are some (myself included) who just dont think he will progress beyond what he has done. And like you, we could be wrong but its just a differing opinion but it isnt like we can control what kind of chances he gets. The bottom line for me as a Bronco fan is if the FO believe they can upgrade any position and feel that (in this case) that Tebow isnt the answer i will support them because they are doing what they believe will make the team better. If they think bringing in Manning will help the team or help Tebow i will take their word over anybody on this forum (not singling you out here). I remember quite a few people backing McDaniels when he traded Cutler by saying that he wasnt obligated to keep him because he didnt draft him. Well, whats changed now? Neither John's drafted Tebow yet unliked McDouche they allowed Tim to play at least before making their decisions. Maybe they are sold on him, maybe not. Either way im fine with their decision just so as long as it makes the team better.


Yea, I have no problem with EFX wanting Manning and thinking he'll be a better QB than Tebow. I'm just talking about the people on this board that "know" that Tebow is terrible and will never be a good QB. Really? Really? No other QB's have ever improved? It's just baffling to me why so many people are so sure he has plateaued as a player. It's just as strange why some think he is a surefire HOFer. I don't think any of us are Mrs. Cleo or Nostradamus so WTF.

And it is a message board and people are opinionated and all, sure, I get it, I'm just amazed by the amount of irrationality I have seen this last year.

[vandammage13]

What does it say, then? It mentions only the single QBs and their W-L record. That might work in tennis, golf, bowling, and blackjack, but there are so many other factors in football that it shapes up to be a very shallow analysis. It doesn't take into account such factors as a defense that kept the score waaaay down in most of those wins, along with such incidents as the opposing RB failing stay in bounds when his team had the game won, 59-yard field goals . . . you know, that kind of thing. Really, it was a pretty silly analysis . . .

Cmon Top....Don't try to spin the article...More was mentioned than just W-L record.

Other facets of QB'ing were included such as TD/INT and even Tebow's completion % was talked about.

I'll give you the fact that the analysis was a bit shallow...There wasn't much analysis, but merely just comparing raw stats (or facts).

The article never says Tebow is better than those guys...What the article does is show that the numbers indicate that there is reason to believe he can work out.

The fact is (even leaving out W-L record) that the numbers show Tebow didn't perform badly at all for a QB making his first 13 starts...I guess in this era of instant gratification, people expect their QB to come out of the gates looking like a polished 6-year vet rather than what he really is...a young QB.

[vandammage13]

I think we all need to remember how bad Manning, Brady, Elway etc. looked in their first couple of years. The recognition of what the defense is doing and where people are going to be, just isn't there. Now they all threw better than Tebow and had better mechanics and he might not be able to improve in this area, but he might be able to as well. I fully expect him to develop his recognition and learn defenses and the like, he works hard and has played this game for a long time. I'm not so sure he will ever have great mechanics and be a great passer, but I could be wrong.

I still think people should give him a chance either way. The fringes that think he will be the next Steve Young and the fringes that think he'll be worse than Akili Smith need to take a deep breath and chill the **** out. Let it play out and see what happens.

I have little hope that Tebow's mechanics will improve much either...

Where I do think he will improve (and I think he already showed some improvement) is in his understanding and recognition of defenses.

Tebow's mechanics and accuracy is what it is...the occaisional errant ball that sails into the stands or dives to the feet of the WR may just be something that will never go away.

However, once his understanding of defenses improves and he actually knows where to go with the ball, the completion % will skyrocket...

This doesn't happen overnight for ANY QB...Manning, Elway, Young all turned the ball over at alarming rates early in their careers...A more recent example would be Cam Newton who was near the bottom when it came to turnovers...Why? They didn't know how to read defenses yet.

Once Tebow knows where to go with the ball, watch out folks...When he can do that, I can live with the occasional errant ball because of everything else he brings to the table.

[claymore]

We know Tebow sucks in practice, right? And even though he can't throw well at times, he did play pretty damn well most of the year and sparked the team to make the playoffs and win against the Steelers. Do you really think we would have been in the same spot with Orton, Quinn, or Weber last year?

If we had the same ball bounces absolutley we would have done as well. Multiple games came down to luck, small percentage chance happenings that did not present themselves due to superior QB play.

[TXBRONC]

Cmon Top....Don't try to spin the article...More was mentioned than just W-L record.

Other facets of QB'ing were included such as TD/INT and even Tebow's completion % was talked about.

I'll give you the fact that the analysis was a bit shallow...There wasn't much analysis, but merely just comparing raw stats (or facts).

The article never says Tebow is better than those guys...What the article does is show that the numbers indicate that there is reason to believe he can work out.

The fact is (even leaving out W-L record) that the numbers show Tebow didn't perform badly at all for a QB making his first 13 starts...I guess in this era of instant gratification, people expect their QB to come out of the gates looking like a polished 6-year vet rather than what he really is...a young QB.

You can I find stats to support whatever side of the argument you're on.

It was done for Orton as well. There are stats out there that suggest he's better quarterback than I think he really is.

Finally it's way to easy to say to down play all criticism as nothing more than shallow instant gratification. There is as legitimate criticism of Tebow as there is crap that some people pull out of their asses.

[Northman]

You can I find stats to support whatever side of the argument you're on.

It was done for Orton as well. There are stats out there that suggest he's better quarterback than I think he really is.

Finally it's way to easy to say to down play all criticism as nothing more than shallow instant gratification. There is as legitimate criticism of Tebow as there is crap that some people pull out of their asses.

Very good post and on the money.

Personally, when it comes the "instant gratification" i think people mis-label it. Instant gratification in this day and age doesnt apply to a single player but to a team as a whole. Its not unheard of for a team to turn it around quickly as long as your adding the right pieces. But when it comes to players individually there is never an instant gratification and never has been. Elway was NEVER an instant gratification, neither was Manning, Big Ben, Rodgers, and so on.

As you said, most of those whom point out the flaws that Tebow has are legit criticisms and a lot of those flaws are things that most NFL QB's do not have coming in.

[vandammage13]

If we had the same ball bounces absolutley we would have done as well. Multiple games came down to luck, small percentage chance happenings that did not present themselves due to superior QB play.

Even with all of the lucky breaks we had, you still have to take advantage of them...

Tebow was mostly clutch when it mattered...And that (to me anyway) is the most important contribution he made.

How many times did we see over the last couple of seasons the game end with a INT or turnover on downs with a chance to win at the end with our previous QB?...With Tebow, he at least made plays to put us in position to win at the end, and that's a good sign from a young QB.

Barber running out of bounds or even fumbling wouldn't have meant a damn thing if we didn't do something with the ball.

[Northman]

Even with all of the lucky breaks we had, you still have to take advantage of them...

Tebow was mostly clutch when it mattered...And that (to me anyway) is the most important contribution he made.

How many times did we see over the last couple of seasons the game end with a INT or turnover on downs with a chance to win at the end with our previous QB?...With Tebow, he at least made plays to put us in position to win at the end, and that's a good sign from a young QB.

Barber running out of bounds or even fumbling wouldn't have meant a damn thing if we didn't do something with the ball.


True.

But the same can be said when we lost to Buff and KC when we needed to win those games. Good thing Oakland choked. And good thing Andre Goodman got that INT for a TD vs the Jets. Tebow had some good moments for sure but you still have to have perspective and objectivity to it all.

[weazel]

I think Tebow would be the greatest of all time in any sport he ever tried! I want to have his babies!!!!

[claymore]

Even with all of the lucky breaks we had, you still have to take advantage of them...

Tebow was mostly clutch when it mattered...And that (to me anyway) is the most important contribution he made.

How many times did we see over the last couple of seasons the game end with a INT or turnover on downs with a chance to win at the end with our previous QB?...With Tebow, he at least made plays to put us in position to win at the end, and that's a good sign from a young QB.

Barber running out of bounds or even fumbling wouldn't have meant a damn thing if we didn't do something with the ball.
In the first year with Orton we didnt see it. After year of film on him in our offense we saw it. Tebow will either get much worse due to film, and the luck well drying up, or he will get better.

I havent seen the things you guys are excited about. So naturally I dont think he will get better, and is the reason I dont like him.

[MasterShake]

My bottom line on the whole Tebow/Manning thing is this. I think Tebow will be a good QB in 3-5 years, and that also happens to be the amount of time I think Manning has left in him. In regards to the Broncos, I guess it just depends on how you want to spend that time frame. You can watch Tebow develop into a better QB, or take a HOF QB and go all in and get a crack at a Super Bowl NOW. I'd love to see players like Champ Bailey get a legit shot in that timeframe myself in addition to wanting the Broncos to be the best possible team.

[Lancane]

Tebow is not a better bet then Manning, nor Peyton's brother or for that matter most other starting quarterbacks in this league. He's a better bet then maybe say McCoy, Kolb, Painter and Henne, that's not exactly what I would call a 'safe bet'...despite yards rushing, win-loss record and interceptions thrown he was statistically the worst starting quarterback in the league. But even those statistics are skewed, he might have fewer interceptions, he also had the fewest completions of any starting quarterback, of course that's the receivers fault not Tebow's, nor is it his fault for those fumbles either, those are the running backs' and offensive linemen's fault. As to the win-loss record, I will not deny that he had a part in those wins, but according to some it was almost all him, while the losses were not, how dare anyone lay the losses at his feet...the defense didn't have their part to play in those wins, but they sure had their part in those losses. And that goes for the receivers as well. We've sort of heard it all, and I'm tired of it...fact is that he just is not that good despite what people want to spew and there are no stats besides minor ones, those easily arguable that support otherwise.

Of course I'll get blasted here in a moment by someone's literal spite for what I see and believe, as if it will change my perspective...it's pompous I know, how dare I have an opinion that slanders Timmy, how dare I have an opinion that differs from their own. Of course they can not intelligently argue the matter, they'll go delve into the statistics again, you know...the arguable ones, trying to put a lyrical spin on them to make me and others like me look foolish, of course if I gave a damn that would be another story.

So I will allow them to get started with the slandering bull, by stating this...if Tebow is so good and such a safe bet, then why are Elway, Fox and Xanders trying to go after the shiny used toy, it couldn't possibly be because he can actually throw the ball from point A to point B, more often then the safer bet now could it? Who needs a pass capable quarterback - Teebs is a winner? And of course their argument will be that it's Peyton Manning...and mine would be if you have a young quarterback that is a safe bet and you believe is the future of the franchise then you don't go after Manning. He's better arguably then most of the younger quarterbacks in the league, funny how no one that thought they had their man on the roster was going after him, give Bud Adams who is nuttier then squirrel shit to begin with.

[topscribe]

Shit, Kyle Orton has got them all beat.......
I know you said this tongue-in-cheek, but if this is the criterion the OP is using, Orton was 10-5 as a rookie. *shrugs*

[jlarsiii]

I know you said this tongue-in-cheek, but if this is the criterion the OP is using, Orton was 10-5 as a rookie. *shrugs*

It'll never work top. They will point out that Orton had the vaunted bears defense to help him to that record all the while Tebow single handedly won all of his games on his own without any help from other offensive players, defensive players, special teams players, or boneheaded plays from opposing team players (like recovering an onside kick or running out of bounds etc.).

[wayninja]

You guys have convinced me. I think Orton is worthy of giving a few starting seasons to to see if he pans out.

[TXBRONC]

It'll never work top. They will point out that Orton had the vaunted bears defense to help him to that record all the while Tebow single handedly won all of his games on his own without any help from other offensive players, defensive players, special teams players, or boneheaded plays from opposing team players (like recovering an onside kick or running out of bounds etc.).

I agree Tebow didn't do it all by himself just as Orton didn't but I would still take Tebow over Orton. Orton never fared very well under adversity but Tebow warts and all still helped Denver get to the playoffs.

[jlarsiii]

I agree Tebow didn't do it all by himself just Orton didn't but I still take Tebow over Orton. Orton never fared very well under adversity but Tebow warts and all Denver still got to the playoffs.

Yeah, I should have at least included that Tebow did play a part in winning as well. I don't think anybody wants Orton really, even Orton himself. Isn't that why he just signed up with Dallas to be a backup QB? Even he knows he isn't starter material anymore. Still, holding a clipboard and depositing a nice paycheck isn't a bad gig if you can get it...

[topscribe]

Yeah, I should have at least included that Tebow did play a part in winning as well. I don't think anybody wants Orton really, even Orton himself. Isn't that why he just signed up with Dallas to be a backup QB? Even he knows he isn't starter material anymore. Still, holding a clipboard and depositing a nice paycheck isn't a bad gig if you can get it...
Why are people saying that? Maybe Orton signed with Dallas to compete with Romo? Orton might end up holding a clipboard, but I don't envision his doing it without a fight . . .

[TXBRONC]

Why are people saying that? Maybe Orton signed with Dallas to compete with Romo? Orton might end up holding a clipboard, but I don't envision his doing it without a fight . . .

Jerry Jones loves attention if he had signed Orton to compete with Romo he would have said so.

[TXBRONC]

Yeah, I should have at least included that Tebow did play a part in winning as well. I don't think anybody wants Orton really, even Orton himself. Isn't that why he just signed up with Dallas to be a backup QB? Even he knows he isn't starter material anymore. Still, holding a clipboard and depositing a nice paycheck isn't a bad gig if you can get it...

I figured it was implied when you said he didn't do it by himself. :salute:

[Ravage!!!]

Orton isn't competition for Romo as the starter. But Romo does go down with injury nearly eery season, so it would give Orton the chance to play with a talented team, on a big stage, and hope to get the kind of attention that a Flynn has gotten for one big game. Obviously he won't because he's been on three teams already...but Orton is NOT in competiion to be the starter in Dallas. NO WAY Jerry Jones would ever allow a Kyle Orton to be the starter without there being injury first.

[NightTerror218]

In the first year with Orton we didnt see it. After year of film on him in our offense we saw it. Tebow will either get much worse due to film, and the luck well drying up, or he will get better.

I havent seen the things you guys are excited about. So naturally I dont think he will get better, and is the reason I dont like him.

you never saw a WIN this season?

[NightTerror218]

Yeah, I should have at least included that Tebow did play a part in winning as well. I don't think anybody wants Orton really, even Orton himself. Isn't that why he just signed up with Dallas to be a backup QB? Even he knows he isn't starter material anymore. Still, holding a clipboard and depositing a nice paycheck isn't a bad gig if you can get it...

Or he knows Romo is injury prone?

[Dzone]

I would hate to lose Tebow. That would suck.

[Dzone]

Hope Manning can mentor Tebow much in the same way he helped that Painter kid with girly hair dew

[weazel]

Hope Manning can mentor Tebow much in the same way he helped that Painter kid with girly hair dew

is Tebow getting traded to the 49rs?

[Archge]

Call Dan Caplis to console him at 1-800-waaaahh. If Tebow is so great, why is there currently little interest with other teams wanting him for their new starting QB? This may change once he is officially on the block but right now...little interest in Timmy.

[wayninja]

Yay! Thanks for coming by and taking a big shit on our former QB. Hope it makes you feel a ton better about being a newfound bronco fan!

[Archge]

Intelligent reply no-way. I guess with all your posts you're the resident expert here? Hope not. As a long time Bronco fan having attended our two winning Superbowl's I'll take a shit on you as a so called "fan"...get a life.