How come I feel that we are in quicksand as a team?

[Medford Bronco]

Regardless of Manning, this team has a ton of other holes and some potential suspensions to deal with on Defense.

Where are the FA signining or even rumors. Brandon Meriweather (Thank God in Wash, nice job Shanny lol)?

I dont get it. Its not like we are the Packers, Saints or Patriots with talent on this roster right now?

It is very aggravating big time. I feel like the FO is milking the flukey year that happened last season.

What to you all think?

[slim]

I think this is what we should expect.

They will target 2nd tier FA and try to build through the draft.

[G_Money]

I think if we don't get off our asses and spend some money on much-needed positional upgrades other than QB then our QB situation won't mean shit to the success of this team.

~G

[camdisco24]

We have to remain realistic. We aren't going to get every big FA out there, and the others might be washed up or not worth our time.

Some of the best teams right now built themselves up through the draft. After last season, I am confident EFX can continue finding good guys to step up right away. All it takes is a couple solid FA signings (Ex: McGahee) and some quality rookies to groom and we'll be just fine. Its a slow process, but we can't expect every big name FA to look at Denver.

[Medford Bronco]

We have to remain realistic. We aren't going to get every big FA out there, and the others might be washed up or not worth our time.

Some of the best teams right now built themselves up through the draft. After last season, I am confident EFX can continue finding good guys to step up right away. All it takes is a couple solid FA signings (Ex: McGahee) and some quality rookies to groom and we'll be just fine. Its a slow process, but we can't expect every big name FA to look at Denver.

They have brought in none. That is my concern None. nada zero.

I did not expect Mario Williams or a Vincent Jackson but come on.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I think if we don't get off our asses and spend some money on much-needed positional upgrades other than QB then our QB situation won't mean shit to the success of this team.

~G

Totally agree - regardless who the QB ends up to be - this team has needs - which so far, have not been addressed.

[dogfish]

I think this is what we should expect.

They will target 2nd tier FA, sign mostly 4th tier FA and try to build through the draft.


:heh:

[Medford Bronco]

:heh:

That means that we hope to get lucky. Brilliant. You can do that but should augment through FA, not run and hide like we are a value team like NE does. If we had NEs track record
of being good the last 10 years, you can do that. We do not have that right now and have not for a LONG LONG time. :mad:

[gatorpower]

No excuse of not getting mario williams, imo. it would have cost ~$16M/year, which we could have swung even with manning. :/

[701Bronco]

**** Peyton Manning, he ran our boat into an iceberg then hopped on a Tennessee lifeboat filled with gold. Bullshit billonaire ***********

[dogfish]

That means that we hope to get lucky. Brilliant. You can do that but should augment through FA, not run and hide like we are a value team like NE does. If we had NEs track record
of being good the last 10 years, you can do that. We do not have that right now and have not for a LONG LONG time. :mad:

i know, buddy. . . i know. . .

[Medford Bronco]

i know, buddy. . . i know. . .

But I am the bad guy who hates Tebow. We need a reality grip and not hope for flying saucers and rainbows and lollipops to happen all the time.
I like tebow as a person. Great guy and class act. He is not a good QB. Sorry. and please whomever dont compare him to Elway in 1983

Elway could throw a spiral and ran for his life and had the run run run pass on 3rd down offense with Dan Reeves and not real fast WR to help. Also 2012
you breathe on a WR is is a pa flag. Back then you could destroy the WR. Just ask Lester Hayes and Mel Blount. But I am the stupid guy.

Please the pot of Gold with our option garbage crap offense is not going to work. Go watch old Oklahoma games or Nebraska games if you want to see
college fake offense.

[Krugan]

Well, spend this year on decent talent, or scramble next year to hit the cap floor.

I dont get it, we need to spend regardless, there were some decent names out there early, at least they could have made a attempt.

[camdisco24]

They have brought in none. That is my concern None. nada zero.

I did not expect Mario Williams or a Vincent Jackson but come on.

We signed a solid safety today so there is some life at Dove Valley. I'm not disagreeing with you, I see the holes in our team too, I just think EFX prefers to build from the draft. Technically we are still in rebuild mode.

IMO, Looking at Peyton Manning goes against EVERYTHING EFX has preached, but I guess they felt PM was worth it. Ready for the Manning Circus to end so we know which direction this team is going.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

In a decade, we just haven't learned our lesson. It always seems as if just as we're about to turn the corner, then the FO stuffs their penises between their legs and inserts them squarely in their rectums. We had a pretty good defense for awhile, it went completely neglected for years and eventually collapsed because we wanted to focs on shiny objects that didn't pan out. We built a potentially great offense then traded all those core players away for peanuts and misused the picks acquired in those trades. We just won our first playoff game in 7 years and yet instead of capitalizing on the momentum and fixing what was broken, we got all antsy and started chasing a washed-up, injury prone, over the hill QB that at best might buy us 2-3 more wins for 1-2 seasons and in doing so have potentially alienated our young, hard-working QB who got us here along withn driving another wedge into the fanbase by forcing them to pick sides.

STOP CHASING BUTTERFLIES AND FOCUS! Improve the team where you can, but no more controversy. There has been enough of that BS. Recognize what EVERY FAN realizes are our real weaknesses and take action to fix them. Until we wake the hell up and start doing that, we're going to be doomed to be a mediocre at best team as we keep chasing shiny objects and getting distracted. How many starting QBs have we had since 2002? Five. We're switching QBs on average every two years. You'll never win that way.

Draft your QBOTF and get behind him 100%. Let him play out his rookie deal before you shit-can him. If it's Tebow, fine. If it's not, for God's sake draft who you want and ride with the kid until you have no other choice. Switching QBs every other year is getting ridiculous and there is ZERO consistency in our offense which KILLS the passing game much more than the QB himself. Patience, intelligence, and for Heaven's sake commitment is what this team needs. Until we finally settle on who we are and what type of team we want to be, we will continue to struggle.

[Dapper Dan]

Get out there and pick up the best players that money can buy. It's worked for Dallas all of these years. Also, don't forget the Eagles this past season. BEASTS!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

In a decade, we just haven't learned our lesson. It always seems as if just as we're about to turn the corner, the FO stuffs their penises between their legs and inserts them squarely in their rectums. We had a pretty good defense for awhile, it went completely neglected for years and eventually collapsed because we wanted to focs on shiny objects that didn't pan out. We built a potentially great offense then traded all those core players away for peanuts and misused the picks acquired in those trades. We just won our first playoff game in 7 years and yet instead of capitalizing on the momentum and fixing what was broken, we got all antsy and started chasing a washed-up, injury prone, over the hill QB that at best might buy us 2-3 more wins for 1-2 seasons and in doing so have potentially alienated our young, hard-working QB who got us here along withn driving another wedge into the fanbase by forcing them to pick sides.

STOP CHASING BUTTERFLIES AND FOCUS! Improve the team where you can, but no more controversy. There has been enough of that BS. Recognize what EVERY FAN realizes are our real weaknesses and take action to fix them. Until we wake the hell up and start doing that, we're going to be doomed to be a mediocre at best team as we keep chasing shiny objects and getting distracted. How many starting QBs have we had since 2002? Five. We're switching QBs on average every two years. You'll never win that way.

Draft your QBOTF and get behind him 100%. Let him play out his rookie deal before you shit-can him. If it's Tebow, fine. If it's not, for God's sake draft who you want and ride with the kid until you have no other choice. Switching QBs every other year is getting ridiculous and there is ZERO consistency in our offense which KILLS the passing game much more than the QB himself. Patience, intelligence, and for Heaven's sake commitment is what this team needs. Until we finally settle on who we are and what type of team we want to be, we will continue to struggle.

[broncobryce]

To every big name player signed, at least one is being cut, so the market isn't get smaller it's getting bigger.

That said, I would like to see them bring in a really good corner. I'm sure they still will do that.

Do you really want to pay 20 million guaranteed to one of these guys?

We've been bit in the ass many times overpaying. If we still having done anything in a week, then I will worry.

[rationalfan]

someone starts one of these threads every time FA starts. sometimes its "why aren't the broncos signing big names." when the team does make aggressive signings its "why are they throwing money at every FA?" someone always knows more than the front office. (i'll admit it, i don't).

[wayninja]

It feels like we are in Payton or bust mode. If we get Manning, we are ok opening the purse strings. If not, the plan is to be thrifty and hope for a miracle or a top draft pick next year.

[dogfish]

That said, I would like to see them bring in a really good corner. I'm sure they still will do that.



they better start doing it friggin' soon then-- tracy porter's about the only decent corner still on the market, and he's got at least one visit lined up. . .

we are bringing in marcus trufant, though, and he was a good corner two-three years ago. . . at this point, it's probably too late to make any significant move there. . .

we need to sign mcclain and bunkley, and ideally get BJGE or michael robinson before the backfield market dries completely up also. . . not holding my breath, though. . . we're probably eyeing fred taylor and lorenzo neal. . .

[G_Money]

fred taylor and lorenzo neal

Sounds right. We don't have any problem with decent players as long as they have at least a dozen years with some other club first. Dawkins and Lynch made some pro bowls for us in the defensive backfield with that philosophy, so now we've turned it to the offensive backfield.

Makes total sense.

~G

[dogfish]

Sounds right. We don't have any problem with decent players as long as they have at least a dozen years with some other club first. Dawkins and Lynch made some pro bowls for us in the defensive backfield with that philosophy, so now we've turned it to the offensive backfield.

Makes total sense.

~G

it's not like we've abandoned the philosophy on the defensive side of the ball either. . . john abraham's pushin' 34-- marcus trufant won't turn 32 until december, but he's missed 16 games over the last three seasons (12 of 'em last year) with a chronic bad back, so he's a prime candidate for the ty warren memorial "sign 'em and they don't play a snap" award. . .

i'm thinking kevin mawae might be a good fit on the OL. . .

[The Peytonator]

it's not like we've abandoned the philosophy on the defensive side of the ball either. . . john abraham's pushin' 34-- marcus trufant won't turn 32 until december, but he's missed 16 games over the last three seasons (12 of 'em last year) with a chronic bad back, so he's a prime candidate for the ty warren memorial "sign 'em and they don't play a snap" award. . .

i'm thinking kevin mawae might be a good fit on the OL. . .

Didn't Herschel Walker recently say he wants to make a comeback?

[Simple Jaded]

I think if we don't get off our asses and spend some money on much-needed positional upgrades other than QB then our QB situation won't mean shit to the success of this team.

~G

How can the Broncos recruit players until they actually have a QB? We don't even know what this team actually needs on offense until they're actually playing in an NFL offense. As for defense, l don't know how Broncos fans expect defensive players to jump on board when the offense puts so much pressure on the defense. The Broncos have the worst QB situation in the entire league, they can't move forward until it's fixed.......

[dogfish]

How can the Broncos recruit players until they actually have a QB? We don't even know what this team actually needs on offense until they're actually playing in an NFL offense. As for defense, l don't know how Broncos fans expect defensive players to jump on board when the offense puts so much pressure on the defense. The Broncos have the worst QB situation in the entire league, they can't move forward until it's fixed.......

well, typically when you want players to "jump on board," you kinda have to call them first. . .


and if you're honestly trying to suggest that defensive players wouldn't want to come and play here because tebow is so awful. . . man, you done lost any semblance of perspective. . . we have von and doom and champ. . . right now, tracy porter and steven tulloch are so desperate for their phones to ring, they'd play with friggin' satan if you offered 'em 6.5 a year for four years. . . satan, OR blaine gabbert!

tebow or not, denver played two playoff games last year. . . you think NFL guys hate bonus checks?

[BigDaddyBronco]

Ok, so what does history tell us? The last few years the Broncos have tried to build through the draft and not pay big money for FA's. We have picked 2nd and 3rd tier guys like MacGahee, Renaldo Hill, Gaffney, Buckhalter, Ty Warren, Bunkley, etc. In addition we have picked up some decent FA's that were in the twilights of their career's like Dawkins and Lynch and even Andre Goodman.

Last year was an uncapped year and we had one of the lowest payrolls in the NFL, add that to comments from the FO where they say that they'll not be big spenders in FA and will focus on lower priced depth guys. Mix in reports of cash flow issues for Bowlen and we can see that this team isn't going to be like the Redskins or Cowboys when it comes to spending money.

Bowlen will open up his wallet when it comes to a guy like Peyton Manning, but he isn't going to pay like Bud Adams. We might still get Peyton if he thinks the situation is better in Denver, but I doubt we outbid the Titans. That is just where we are as a frachise.

Hey we signed Mike Adams from Cleveland and we have Trufant coming in today. They will both be decent additions to the secondary. A LB, resigning Bunkley, and some more depth and we should be ok on defense with a few decent draft picks. On offense we need a RB, a WR or two, and some line help. If Peyton comes it will be instantly better (if he doesn't break his GD neck). So I can see where the FO is going.

I don't think this team will be a SB contender, even with Manning, so they might as well continue to build through the draft and maybe get ready for the year where we only need one or two pieces to get over the hump.

[Northman]

Get out there and pick up the best players that money can buy. It's worked for Dallas all of these years. Also, don't forget the Eagles this past season. BEASTS!

Nuff said.


People need to relax. Seriously.

[Northman]

Ok, so what does history tell us? The last few years the Broncos have tried to build through the draft and not pay big money for FA's. We have picked 2nd and 3rd tier guys like MacGahee, Renaldo Hill, Gaffney, Buckhalter, Ty Warren, Bunkley, etc. In addition we have picked up some decent FA's that were in the twilights of their career's like Dawkins and Lynch and even Andre Goodman.

Last year was an uncapped year and we had one of the lowest payrolls in the NFL, add that to comments from the FO where they say that they'll not be big spenders in FA and will focus on lower priced depth guys. Mix in reports of cash flow issues for Bowlen and we can see that this team isn't going to be like the Redskins or Cowboys when it comes to spending money.

Bowlen will open up his wallet when it comes to a guy like Peyton Manning, but he isn't going to pay like Bud Adams. We might still get Peyton if he thinks the situation is better in Denver, but I doubt we outbid the Titans. That is just where we are as a frachise.

Hey we signed Mike Adams from Cleveland and we have Trufant coming in today. They will both be decent additions to the secondary. A LB, resigning Bunkley, and some more depth and we should be ok on defense with a few decent draft picks. On offense we need a RB, a WR or two, and some line help. If Peyton comes it will be instantly better (if he doesn't break his GD neck). So I can see where the FO is going.

so they might as well continue to build through the draft and maybe get ready for the year where we only need one or two pieces to get over the hump.


Post of the year!

[TXBRONC]

they better start doing it friggin' soon then-- tracy porter's about the only decent corner still on the market, and he's got at least one visit lined up. . .

we are bringing in marcus trufant, though, and he was a good corner two-three years ago. . . at this point, it's probably too late to make any significant move there. . .

we need to sign mcclain and bunkley, and ideally get BJGE or michael robinson before the backfield market dries completely up also. . . not holding my breath, though. . . we're probably eyeing fred taylor and lorenzo neal. . .

I thought Trufant was a safety?

[Dapper Dan]

someone starts one of these threads every time FA starts. sometimes its "why aren't the broncos signing big names." when the team does make aggressive signings its "why are they throwing money at every FA?" someone always knows more than the front office. (i'll admit it, i don't).

You're so rational. I like it.

[G_Money]

I don't think anybody's asking the Broncos to try to buy their way to a championship with the most expensive FAs possible.

But last year and this year are HUGE FA opportunities because there are twice the normal # of free agents on the market. You actually CAN upgrade nearly any part of your team that you would like to with the options available, and we're choosing...

None of the above. There's a difference between shrewd and cheap, and between "cunningly executed plan" and "vascillating insecure paralysis."

We have to spend a certain amount and the Broncos have indicated they rolled last year's cap savings into this year. You can't say that to your fanbase, then show them Mike Adams and tell them, "We got the best talent for this team that we could from what was available."

Now, there's a ways to go yet. The Broncos may yet address most of the screaming needs we have rather than waiting for the draft, the UDFAs and the scraps left over when the FA musical chairs end.

But I'll believe it when I see it at this point. Hope to see it soon, because there's still a ton of talent on the market.

~G

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I don't think anybody's asking the Broncos to try to buy their way to a championship with the most expensive FAs possible.

But last year and this year are HUGE FA opportunities because there are twice the normal # of free agents on the market. You actually CAN upgrade nearly any part of your team that you would like to with the options available, and we're choosing...

None of the above. There's a difference between shrewd and cheap, and between "cunningly executed plan" and "vascillating insecure paralysis."

We have to spend a certain amount and the Broncos have indicated they rolled last year's cap savings into this year. You can't say that to your fanbase, then show them Mike Adams and tell them, "We got the best talent for this team that we could from what was available."

Now, there's a ways to go yet. The Broncos may yet address most of the screaming needs we have rather than waiting for the draft, the UDFAs and the scraps left over when the FA musical chairs end.

But I'll believe it when I see it at this point. Hope to see it soon, because there's still a ton of talent on the market.

~G

Don't worry G, we're going to get Manning and score 50 points a game on offense so who really cares if the rest of the team doesn't get better (or worse). Haven't you read enough on this board and on every NFL web/blog site that having a "franchise" QB cures all ills and that's all you need to win a Championship? ;)

[wayninja]

Don't worry G, we're going to get Manning and score 50 points a game on offense so who really cares if the rest of the team doesn't get better (or worse). Haven't you read enough on this board and on every NFL web/blog site that having a "franchise" QB cures all ills and that's all you need to win a Championship? ;)

The model is NE. Except for the losing in the superbowl part.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't think anybody's asking the Broncos to try to buy their way to a championship with the most expensive FAs possible.


~G

I do. Lots of these posters are kids who are part of the me, me me, I want everything NOW generation. I believe that's EXACTLY what many are asking for.

[wayninja]

I do. Lots of these posters are kids who are part of the me, me me, I want everything NOW generation. I believe that's EXACTLY what many are asking for.

Sorta like going after the most expensive FA in history who's only got a few years left?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Sorta like going after the most expensive FA in history who's only got a few years left?

meanwhile being bashed by a bunch of fans for "doing nothing"...

[Joel]

Regardless of Manning, this team has a ton of other holes and some potential suspensions to deal with on Defense.

Where are the FA signining or even rumors. Brandon Meriweather (Thank God in Wash, nice job Shanny lol)?

I dont get it. Its not like we are the Packers, Saints or Patriots with talent on this roster right now?

It is very aggravating big time. I feel like the FO is milking the flukey year that happened last season.

What to you all think?
My guess would be you feel that way because you're smart enough to know there's a truckload of things wrong with this team, not deep enough in denial to anoint every HoF or potential future maybe HoF QB as a panacea and have been around long enough to see enough garbage teams do that to know it's a sure sign of disaster. Just MHO.

Hopefully we continue a rebuild focused on the trenches; maybe finally grab a star DT, but the way Bunkley played last year and our guards didn't I worry more about the latter. No more "win championships with sexy blitzers and offensive scoring threats even though we don't have the grunts both need to succeed." At this point I'm hoping an intelligent and successful former player like Elway can restore sanity.

I have no argument with Manning except that I worry about what spending that much cap money on a guy who'll be gone in a couple years no matter what means for the future of a team that HAS no future unless it gets a lot more help. If we're going to fill a dozen or more holes building through the draft with a half dozen picks a year, by the time we fill those holes Peyton Manning will be getting his pension.

[wayninja]

meanwhile being bashed by a bunch of fans for "doing nothing"...

And if they don't get Manning, those fans would effectively be correct.

[bcbronc]

people don't actually think that EFX aren't even making contact with agents etc do they? I'm willing to bet that even in the Twit Generation, we don't hear about 95% of the contact a front office makes with agents. I'll guarantee that our front office is in contact with multiple agents regarding multiple players every day. Just because we aren't hearing about it doesn't mean it's not happening.

[claymore]

Manning is the only FA out there worth all the money some of these jabrones are getting.

He doesnt take plays off, He is wicked smart, He is a leader, He is a lock HOF'er, he instantly upgrades the QB position by leaps and bounds, He is moraly sound... Etc...

Manning is the only 5 star guy out there, and the only one that can completley change this team.

Sprinkling in quality vet FA's around our youngsters is the way to go. It will take time though.

[wayninja]

people don't actually think that EFX aren't even making contact with agents etc do they? I'm willing to bet that even in the Twit Generation, we don't hear about 95% of the contact a front office makes with agents. I'll guarantee that our front office is in contact with multiple agents regarding multiple players every day. Just because we aren't hearing about it doesn't mean it's not happening.

That's true, and it's a good point, but having no information doesn't necessarily mean it IS happening either. We definitely do know we haven't been doing much signing, that's for sure.

[wayninja]

Manning is the only FA out there worth all the money some of these jabrones are getting.

He doesnt take plays off, He is wicked smart, He is a leader, He is a lock HOF'er, he instantly upgrades the QB position by leaps and bounds, He is moraly sound... Etc...

Manning is the only 5 star guy out there, and the only one that can completley change this team.

Sprinkling in quality vet FA's around our youngsters is the way to go. It will take time though.

You are absolutely right about all of it, but it doesn't mean you should necessarily put all your eggs in one basket and/or hold your money up indefinitely.

There are definitely other guys out there that are not nearly as expensive and will also be instant upgrades.

[Medford Bronco]

Don't worry G, we're going to get Manning and score 50 points a game on offense so who really cares if the rest of the team doesn't get better (or worse). Haven't you read enough on this board and on every NFL web/blog site that having a "franchise" QB cures all ills and that's all you need to win a Championship? ;)

lol btw the last time a non Franchise QB won a Super Bowl was 2002 in Brad Johnson.

2003 Tom Brady
2004 Tom Brady
2005 Ben Rothisberger
2006 Peyton Manning
2007 Eli Manning
2008 Ben Rothisberger
2009 Drew Brees
2010 Aaron Rodgers
2011 Eli Manning

and before that in 2001 was Tom Brady and eventually Trent Dilfer

What does that say. Dilfer and Johnson had historically good defenses. Just my take. Tebow is not even close to any of these here. If anyone thinks that they are so jaded it is not even funny.

Like I said, He is a great person, class act and a person I admire very much so. As a QB, he is below mediocre and can run well and make an occasional big play. Just my take. the person who wants one of those franchise Qbs

This is 2012 not 1972 or 1962. different league.

[wayninja]

lol btw the last time a non Franchise QB won a Super Bowl was 2002 in Brad Johnson.

2003 Tom Brady
2004 Tom Brady
2005 Ben Rothisberger
2006 Peyton Manning
2007 Eli Manning
2008 Ben Rothisberger
2009 Drew Brees
2010 Aaron Rodgers
2011 Eli Manning

and before that in 2001 was Tom Brady and eventually Trent Dilfer

What does that say. Dilfer and Johnson had historically good defenses. Just my take. Tebow is not even close to any of these here. If anyone thinks that they are so jaded it is not even funny.

Like I said, He is a great person, class act and a person I admire very much so. As a QB, he is below mediocre and can run well and make an occasional big play. Just my take. the person who wants one of those franchise Qbs

This is 2012 not 1972 or 1962. different league.

You make it sound like the moral of the story is that if you haven't already won a SB, you never will.

[Medford Bronco]

You make it sound like the moral of the story is that if you haven't already won a SB, you never will.

The numbers dont lie and guys who dont throw for at least 55%-60% of their passes dont even have a prayer.

Not all of those teams have had great defenses either. GB did not, NO did not and the Giants this year were good but far from the early 2000s Pats, Ravens or Bucs.

Denver did not have an awesome defense in 97 and 98. I remember them giving up over 300 pts one of those years. It does help when you have the top RB
and an HOF QB leading you. The defense was like the Saints in that it caused turnovers and could get the QB.

[bcbronc]

That's true, and it's a good point, but having no information doesn't necessarily mean it IS happening either. We definitely do know we haven't been doing much signing, that's for sure.

come one dude, it's the first few days of free agency. You really think EFX has one cell phone between them and they're leaving the line open in case Manning's dad calls? Just use a little teeny bit of reason here, that's all I'm asking for.

On top of the S we've signed, we've brought another in, have three captives at Dove Valley right now, had a go at the best NT available, had a go at Abraham and of course gave a good enough pitch to arguably the most sought after UFA in NFL history that they're still in the mix. Those are the ones we know of, and guaranteed there's a few more that we'll never know about. Honestly, it's mind-numbing that people actually think EFX aren't talking to agents, aren't staying in the loop with guys they've targeted, and haven't kicked the tires on a few guys that went elsewhere. Hurts my brain, this level of stupidity does.

[wayninja]

come one dude, it's the first few days of free agency. You really think EFX has one cell phone between them and they're leaving the line open in case Manning's dad calls? Just use a little teeny bit of reason here, that's all I'm asking for.

On top of the S we've signed, we've brought another in, have three captives at Dove Valley right now, had a go at the best NT available, had a go at Abraham and of course gave a good enough pitch to arguably the most sought after UFA in NFL history that they're still in the mix. Those are the ones we know of, and guaranteed there's a few more that we'll never know about. Honestly, it's mind-numbing that people actually think EFX aren't talking to agents, aren't staying in the loop with guys they've targeted, and haven't kicked the tires on a few guys that went elsewhere. Hurts my brain, this level of stupidity does.


So, we've signed 1, talked to 2, and are chasing manning. All else is speculation.

Being reasonable is one thing. Making a bunch of assumptions and having no patience for those not being willing to buy your assumptions is quite another.

Like I said. We've signed 1 guy. I'm not bitching and moaning that we aren't doing nothing, we just aren't doing a lot that's visible. Have a little perspective before flying off the handle.

[bcbronc]

Ya way, its not an assumption that our FO has been in contact with ufas other than Manning. I know you're just playing the contrarian because that's what you do, but come on let's not get silly. Every front office will be speaking with multiple agents about multiple players every single day, or even hour for some guys.

Thinking ours isn't just because they're focusing on the big forehead is laughable.

[Simple Jaded]

I would have loved if Denver signed some impact FA's too but has anyone considered that the FA's that Denver is targeting might be waiting to see what happens with Manning before they even consider signing with Denver? Denver is in one of the most ridiculous situations in league history, it's not surprising that FA's aren't falling over one another to be a part of it.......

[wayninja]

Ya way, its not an assumption that our FO has been in contact with ufas other than Manning. I know you're just playing the contrarian because that's what you do, but come on let's not get silly. Every front office will be speaking with multiple agents about multiple players every single day, or even hour for some guys.

Thinking ours isn't just because they're focusing on the big forehead is laughable.

I just admitted that they've spoken to more than one, so I'm not sure what exactly you are laughing at. You are clearly dodging the subject since you don't know who else they are pursuing. I'm not suggesting they aren't or won't pursue anyone else so it's your turn to stop being silly.

[dogfish]

come one dude, it's the first few days of free agency. You really think EFX has one cell phone between them and they're leaving the line open in case Manning's dad calls? Just use a little teeny bit of reason here, that's all I'm asking for.

On top of the S we've signed, we've brought another in, have three captives at Dove Valley right now, had a go at the best NT available, had a go at Abraham and of course gave a good enough pitch to arguably the most sought after UFA in NFL history that they're still in the mix. Those are the ones we know of, and guaranteed there's a few more that we'll never know about. Honestly, it's mind-numbing that people actually think EFX aren't talking to agents, aren't staying in the loop with guys they've targeted, and haven't kicked the tires on a few guys that went elsewhere. Hurts my brain, this level of stupidity does.

let me know when having a go at somebody lines up and plugs the A gap. . .


:welcome:

[G_Money]

Just prepared to hear more, "blah blah we stuck to our process and our talent evaluation and at the end of the day blah blah head up ass blah Adams and Bunkley will help solidify the D and we look forward to the draft blah blah more tight ends and safeties blah blah."

I don't mind the pursuit of Manning. I advocated it. But you can't just stop everything else. Nobody has more cap space than us. If there's someone out there we want - and with the # of free agents there absolutely should be - then we need to get about signing them. When I read reports like this (http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2012/03/detroit_lions_linebacker_steph_5.html) about how the Lions have re-signed everyone they wanted except for a couple of FA defections and are just waiting on Tulloch to blink and sign a contract before calling it a day in free agency...

It makes it hard for me to believe we're doing the necessary things to improve what I still believe is the least-talented team in the AFCW. Certainly the thinnest. If you can't get a MLB to sign because they're all waiting for the first guy to set the market, then there's not a lot you can do in that ONE area. Stake out a sum, hold it aside, and move on. So far the only thing we've done is sign another safety. We added Adams, who would love for Dawkins to come back, we drafted two safeties high last year, and I'm still not sure that we're done with that position.

Meanwhile there's an enormous gaping hole in the middle of the D. Soliai signed a 2-year deal. We wouldn't even commit to that. Saving money only helps if you plan to spend it on someone else. There's a minimum threshold we sorta have to reach. If Bunkley refuses to cut us a discount and signs for similar money with the Saints I'm gonna laugh my ass off.

Right after I throw something. Because we have MANY needs. Manning can only fill so many of them, and it's not like we're guaranteed to get him either. The Titans have a vet and a QB of the future already in place. Manning is icing on what they're trying to do, a statement rather than their only viable option. Manning appears to be our whole cake, but he obviously won't sign if we plan to be cheap about it. He's gonna cost half our cap space. He might even be worth it. But he'd have to sign on the dotted line first, or we're gonna be left with tumbleweeds and a couple of rusty nickels to enhance this team's prospects.

Clock's ticking.

~G

[dogfish]

Just prepared to hear more, "blah blah we stuck to our process and our talent evaluation and at the end of the day blah blah head up ass blah Adams and Bunkley will help solidify the D and we look forward to the draft blah blah more tight ends and safeties blah blah."

I don't mind the pursuit of Manning. I advocated it. But you can't just stop everything else. Nobody has more cap space than us. If there's someone out there we want - and with the # of free agents there absolutely should be - then we need to get about signing them. When I read reports like this (http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2012/03/detroit_lions_linebacker_steph_5.html) about how the Lions have re-signed everyone they wanted except for a couple of FA defections and are just waiting on Tulloch to blink and sign a contract before calling it a day in free agency...

It makes it hard for me to believe we're doing the necessary things to improve what I still believe is the least-talented team in the AFCW. Certainly the thinnest. If you can't get a MLB to sign because they're all waiting for the first guy to set the market, then there's not a lot you can do in that ONE area. Stake out a sum, hold it aside, and move on. So far the only thing we've done is sign another safety. We added Adams, who would love for Dawkins to come back, we drafted two safeties high last year, and I'm still not sure that we're done with that position.

Meanwhile there's an enormous gaping hole in the middle of the D. Soliai signed a 2-year deal. We wouldn't even commit to that. Saving money only helps if you plan to spend it on someone else. There's a minimum threshold we sorta have to reach. If Bunkley refuses to cut us a discount and signs for similar money with the Saints I'm gonna laugh my ass off.

Right after I throw something. Because we have MANY needs. Manning can only fill so many of them, and it's not like we're guaranteed to get him either. The Titans have a vet and a QB of the future already in place. Manning is icing on what they're trying to do, a statement rather than their only viable option. Manning appears to be our whole cake, but he obviously won't sign if we plan to be cheap about it. He's gonna cost half our cap space. He might even be worth it. But he'd have to sign on the dotted line first, or we're gonna be left with tumbleweeds and a couple of rusty nickels to enhance this team's prospects.

Clock's ticking.

~G

it doesn't matter-- we've already punted this off-season. . . yes, there are still free agents out there that could help, a lot-- but it's quite clear we won't be going after any of them. . . the old man has the FO on a 3 mil budget for the season if they can't land potatohead. . .

yea, we know they'll eventually bring in some bodies. . . once the dust settles and we figure out who's left that nobody else wanted. . .


how many immediate starters do you think we can find in the draft?

[wayninja]

it doesn't matter-- we've already punted this off-season. . . yes, there are still free agents out there that could help, a lot-- but it's quite clear we won't be going after any of them. . . the old man has the FO on a 3 mil budget for the season if they can't land potatohead. . .

yea, we know they'll eventually bring in some bodies. . . once the dust settles and we figure out who's left that nobody else wanted. . .


how many immediate starters do you think we can find in the draft?

Agree 100%. They are willing to spend if they can get the QB they want. If not, it's back to football on the cheap, business as usual Broncos football.

[chazoe60]

I think the plan is to purposefully whiff on Manning then tell everyone "we had our money tied up trying to sign Manning and now all the FAs are gone and spending to the cap now would be a waste of money" and Pat can save his cash for one more season until that rule takes effect.

This is like one last chance to use his coupons before they all expire.

[wayninja]

I think the plan is to purposefully whiff on Manning then tell everyone "we had our money tied up trying to sign Manning and now all the FAs are gone and spending to the cap now would be a waste of money" and Pat can save his cash for one more season until that rule takes effect.

This is like one last chance to use his coupons before they all expire.


You mean they haven't expired since 2000? Good thing Bowlen fired Shanahan and then continued to pay him. His accountant probably shot himself.

[G_Money]

how many immediate starters do you think we can find in the draft?

Well if we're going with Mays/Goodman/Willis/Beadles/Moreno/Rosario etc as starters, you'd have to think quite a few, wouldn't you?

I'm sure we can draft 2 or 3 more tight ends and fix at least one position...

~G

[dogfish]

Well if we're going with Mays/Goodman/Willis/Beadles/Moreno/Rosario etc as starters, you'd have to think quite a few, wouldn't you?

I'm sure we can draft 2 or 3 more tight ends and fix at least one position...

~G

yea, but don't forget. . . once we give away tebow for a ham sandwich, we'll have to reserve our first rounder for weeden-- and probably a 4th to trade for matt hasselbeck. . . :lol:

[G_Money]

True. Damn. I always mess up these personnel decisions. We're still running without enough bodies for even a 45-man roster, though, so I think we enjoy a nostalgic view of roster construction.

I bet we could get back that 4th if we'd trade one of our kickers.

~G

[wayninja]

yea, but don't forget. . . once we give away tebow for a ham sandwich, we'll have to reserve our first rounder for weeden-- and probably a 4th to trade for matt hasselbeck. . . :lol:

From manning to hasselbeck... at least they are both old!

Or as my buddy sneakers would say 'old balls'.

[chazoe60]

At this rate we're tonna be filling our roster with UDFAs. Maybe Elway is thinking all UDFAs end up like Rod Smith or at the least Chris Harris.

[Lancane]

I don't know what Elway is thinking or if he's thinking at all...but this is getting way the hell out of hand, we re-sign our worst starting linebacker when we could have upgraded, we signed an aged veteran safety in what looked to be a rushed signing after losing out on Meriweather. We're steps away from losing Bunkley to the Saints and we just lost Fells, we're down to two tight ends and one of which is suspended for six games, and we could be without Williams for six games. How many draft picks do they think we have?

[chazoe60]

I firmly believe this offseason is Spend a shit ton on Manning or don't spend at all.

We're gonna start the three year long Weeden era with no talent left on the roster and a brutal schedule. Have fun watching the 5 win season next season fellas. It's not looking good.

[claymore]

I have a hard time believing that Elway doesnt want to upgrade the team when he is talking to the most expensive, sought after FA of all time.

Players might not want to come to Denver during Tebowmania. If we arent in the middle of a QB controversy, were fixin to be...

[wayninja]

It's Tebow's fault.

[chazoe60]

Yeah lets all figure out a way to blame not spending money on Tebow.

[catfish]

Yeah lets all figure out a way to blame not spending money on Tebow.

the past few years shows the team is willing to spend a ton of money on FA, there really is no other reason they aren't spending other than people just must not want to play with Tebow:)

[Nomad]

Denver's FA problem has been going on a lot longer than since Tebow being here.

It depends on how a team builds whether it's depth through FA or the draft. I know you hope to expect your starters to be from Rds 1-3. Teams have to utilize both to balance out the team and have depth at positions. I believe the BRONCOS would have been very active in FA this year but a dead end called Manning stop them.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Has that quicksand hardened?

[Krugan]

Its more like sticky mud

[Northman]

So many people jumping ship. This is hilarious to watch.

[T.K.O.]

Regardless of Manning, this team has a ton of other holes and some potential suspensions to deal with on Defense.

Where are the FA signining or even rumors. Brandon Meriweather (Thank God in Wash, nice job Shanny lol)?

I dont get it. Its not like we are the Packers, Saints or Patriots with talent on this roster right now?

It is very aggravating big time. I feel like the FO is milking the flukey year that happened last season.

What to you all think?

because your not looking at the possibility that the Broncos just became a playoff/superbowl contender in a short short....you are used to hoping we can just make the playoffs........
trust me ,we are now a contender:salute:
p.s. if you think the saints are contenders and WE have to worry about suspensions? cant help you

[Medford Bronco]

I was wrong on this thread. Glad my revese psychology ala Mo worked. :lol:

[Joel]

because your not looking at the possibility that the Broncos just became a playoff/superbowl contender in a short short....you are used to hoping we can just make the playoffs........trust me ,we are now a contender:salute:p.s. if you think the saints are contenders and WE have to worry about suspensions? cant help youIf YOU think this team so good adding one HoF QB made us SB contenders you're in for a very frustrating 2012 (and probably 2013.) Didn't know we lost Fells, but it explains the Dreesen/Tamme signings (that was an economical approach. :tongue:) I STRONGLY agree with Nomads points on FA; sinking 1/6th of the cap into one guy rather restricts other options. Good thing that was our only hole.... ;)

[Canmore]

If YOU think this team so good adding one HoF QB made us SB contenders you're in for a very frustrating 2012 (and probably 2013.) Didn't know we lost Fells, but it explains the Dreesen/Tamme signings (that was an economical approach. :tongue:) I STRONGLY agree with Nomads points on FA; sinking 1/6th of the cap into one guy rather restricts other options. Good thing that was our only hole.... ;)

We didn't sink 1/6 of our cap into Manning, we sunk 15% of our cap, lol. We still have $14 million to spend if we so choose. We are not hamstrung. It was a calculated risk. Will it pay off? I don't know, but we have a better chance of going to the dance now than we did two weeks ago.

[Cugel]

lol btw the last time a non Franchise QB won a Super Bowl was 2002 in Brad Johnson.

2003 Tom Brady
2004 Tom Brady
2005 Ben Rothisberger
2006 Peyton Manning
2007 Eli Manning
2008 Ben Rothisberger
2009 Drew Brees
2010 Aaron Rodgers
2011 Eli Manning

and before that in 2001 was Tom Brady and eventually Trent Dilfer

What does that say. Dilfer and Johnson had historically good defenses.

This is 2012 not 1972 or 1962. different league.

I make this point a lot, but it never seems to sink in. Continuing with the QBs you mention winning SBs:

Kurt Warner (Certain HOF)
John Elway (HOF)
John Elway (HOF)
Brett Favre (Certain HOF)
Troy Aikman (HOF)
Steve Young (HOF)
Troy Aikman (HOF)
Troy Aikman (HOF)

The only exceptions: Johnson and Dilfer had respectively the 3rd best and THE best overall scoring defenses in modern NFL history. (The '85-86 Bears were 2nd on that list).

Not the best defense that year, or the best defense of the decade, but one of the top 3 defenses of the last 30 years.

The chances of a Broncos team getting that kind of defense, well EVER, are virtually nil. So, it comes down to getting an elite top 5 QB and winning that way. Now we've got one.

Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, Ben Roethlisberger are elite top 10 QBs. There's just NO historical evidence to show that you CAN win a SB in today's NFL without an elite QB.

And as they keep amending the rules to favor passing and protect QBs more and more that need will only get bigger.

So, sure, Manning only has a short window of perhaps three years. But, realistically, that's probably the ONLY chance the Broncos will have in this decade of winning the SB.

People talk about getting a "franchise QB" and "building through the draft" but we had a franchise QB in Cutler. And, even if we'd kept him and NOT traded away all our talented players like Marshall, Sheffler, etc., does anybody believe that Cutler would be leading the Denver Broncos to the SB by now? Imagine we kept Shanahan instead of hiring McMoron and kept building up the team.

I still just don't see it. They would've reached the playoffs in 2009 or 2010 but no SB. :coffee:

I still like Cutler (unlike a lot of you), but he's not an elite QB in the same class as Manning, Brady, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, Roethlisberger.

That makes an important point. You can have a pretty GOOD QB and still not be able to win a SB because you run into Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers in the playoffs. It will be interesting to see if Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan for instance ever win a championship. They are good but not great QBs.

And it's not so easy to find one in the draft either. First you need a top 15 pick most of the time, and then you've got to get lucky. For every Manning or Eli Manning or Roethlisberger, there is a Cutler, or much worse a Rex Grossman, a Ryan Leaf, a Kyle Boller, a Matt Leinart. . . . the list goes on and on. :rolleyes: