Orton's not as bad as we think?

[Italianmobstr7]

I've got the NFL Sunday Ticket, and I've seen the guy play before but maybe I wasn't paying much attention. Don't get me wrong here. He's no Jay Cutler. We all know this. But maybe he is better than we're giving him credit for. I checked out a few of his youtube videos and the guy looks like he can play some football and make some throws. You have to remember that playing with the Bears they were a run first team, the weather is bad there quite a bit and he had virtually no weapons. After watching a couple vids, imagine what he could do with Stokely, Royal, Marshall, Gaffney, Scheffler, and Graham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrAJNQ_e8Jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE2CxDWm1sc

[Superchop 7]

If you can get past the weak arm and immobility......he is as good as it gets.

[Timmy!]

A run 1st team, that finished with 200 less yards than our 7 man RBBC managed last season. Orton CAN be a very good system QB. He just doesn't have the rocket launcher of an arm that tons of people here are so in love with. He does, however, win. Not to mention his teammates speak very highly of him.

[LoyalSoldier]

Oh great highlights and a video of a drive against DETROIT!

Highlight videos are never good indicators. You can take a mediocre QB and make him look HOF just by taking his good moments.

[Shazam!]

Newsflash- Denver won with Jake Plummer and sniffed the Super Bowl less than 5 years ago.

[Northman]

Guys like Urlacher said nothing but GREAT things about Kyle both as a player and a person. He even said he hopes he does well here. Did Champ say anything like that about Cutler? If so, i missed it.

[Timmy!]

Oh great highlights and a video of a drive against DETROIT!

Highlight videos are never good indicators. You can take a mediocre QB and make him look HOF just by taking his good moments.

Yup. Terrible QB. 21-12 overall record. 15-2 at home, with a MEDIOCRE defense (that's right...21st in yards allowed, 16th in points) last season. His "run 1st" team finished with 200 less yards and 1 yard less yard per carry than the Broncos offense. Oh ya...he played hurt 1/2 the season. 15 games. 18 TD's, 12 picks, 58.5 comp %, 80QB rating. With NO friggin weapons. Obviously this guy is absolutely terrible, and at 26 he's an old man. He is NOT Culter, but maybe that's exactly what this team needs. People bashing Orton have no clue. Somebody que up some highlights of what Cutler did against DETROIT in 07. Do I really have to find them?

[Timmy!]

Guys like Urlacher said nothing but GREAT things about Kyle both as a player and a person. He even said he hopes he does well here. Did Champ say anything like that about Cutler? If so, i missed it.


Careful man. I posted this an hour ago, Atwater is going to throw a huge fit.

[Shazam!]

Guys like Urlacher said nothing but GREAT things about Kyle both as a player and a person. He even said he hopes he does well here. Did Champ say anything like that about Cutler? If so, i missed it.

1- I think Cutler alienated himself from the team, even before this.

2- There has been a clear lack of leadership in the locker room for the past year or so. I hope McD changes this.

[ikillz0mbies]

1- I think Cutler alienated himself from the team, even before this.

2- There has been a clear lack of leadership in the locker room for the past year or so. I hope McD changes this.

Bringing veteran players that have leadership (Dawkins) is a great start. And we've all seen how McDaniels can get fiery to Belicheck and Brady. McDaniels is young, which means he is hungry to win. I think he can bring a leadership quality to a team. He was well respected in New England that had Randy Moss.

[Northman]

1- I think Cutler alienated himself from the team, even before this.

2- There has been a clear lack of leadership in the locker room for the past year or so. I hope McD changes this.

Absolutely. I think guys like Royal and Doom were smart not to pick sides. They both said the liked Jay and McDaniels and i think deep down they probably thought Jay was being a little petty about the initial trade talks. But once this trade went through there were a lot of Bears players giving nothing but kudos to Orton. In some ways Urlacher's comments almost came off as disappointed to me. Not so much because of Cutler going there but of losing Orton and maybe at the possibility that Urlacher thought that Chicago should of tried to get players in other positions first. He said that Chicago gave up a LOT to Denver so that tells me we came out like bandits here.

[omac]

Newsflash- Denver won with Jake Plummer and sniffed the Super Bowl less than 5 years ago.

Exactly. And Orton is a much better pocket passer than Plummer was, so he could do very well in McDaniels' system.

[LoyalSoldier]

Yup. Terrible QB. 21-12 overall record.

And just how many of those wins did he rack up when he had passer ratings below 70? I'll give you a hint. It was most of the 2005 season.


15-2 at home, with a MEDIOCRE defense (that's right...21st in yards allowed, 16th in points) last season. His "run 1st" team finished with 200 less yards and 1 yard less per carry than the Broncos offense.

Their defense was at least 16th in scoring defense compared to 30th and dead last is almost every. Not to mention the Bears defense forced about 30 turnovers. Only 17 more than ours.


Oh ya...he played hurt 1/2 the season. 15 games. 18 TD's, 12 picks, 58.5 comp %, 80QB rating. With NO friggin weapons. Obviously this guy is absolutely terrible, and at 26 he's an old man. He is NOT Culter, but maybe that's exactly what this team needs. People bashing Orton have no clue.

His rating was 79.6 which is almost below average. His rating for his career is 71.1. He also lost 5 fumbles last season so his turnovers were around the same as Cutler's.

Sorry for not being impressed.


Somebody que up some highlights of what Cutler did against DETROIT in 07. Do I really have to find them?

Oh you mean get sacked and knocked out of the game early and had to watch his defense get carved up by the Lion's vaunted offense?

[Shazam!]

Nobody called Orton a world-beater... just he can get better.

[Timmy!]

And just how many of those wins did he rack up when he had passer ratings below 70? I'll give you a hint. It was most of the 2005 season.



Their defense was at least 16th in scoring defense compared to 30th and dead last is almost every. Not to mention the Bears defense forced about 30 turnovers. Only 17 more than ours.



His rating was 79.6 which is almost below average. His rating for his career is 71.1. He also lost 5 fumbles last season so his turnovers were around the same as Cutler's.

Sorry for not being impressed.



Oh you mean get sacked and knocked out of the game early and had to watch his defense get carved up by the Lion's vaunted offense?

Touche. I'm not saying the guy is great, far from it. I am saying he can be a decent QB. The NFL is about winning, and no matter how you want to spin it, he has done a better job of it than Cutler has, far and away. You can't argue that. Now, is he the QB Cutler is? No friggin way. BUT, he's not just not the scrub that some people want to make him out to be. People fail to realize he didn't have weapons with the Bears. Seriously, they were pretty sad on offense, not to mention their 0-line can't pass block like ours. Orton should be better in Denver, I don't think Cutler will be better in Chicago.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Newsflash- Denver won with Jake Plummer and sniffed the Super Bowl less than 5 years ago.

Also..

Newsflash - Denver won 8 games with Cutler.

Denver now has ammo to build a defense!

Finally! YES!

[Overtime]

Orton sucks. very disappointed in this aspect of the trade. I like the 2 first round picks and the 3rd rounder, but Orton is where we got the raw end of the deal.

should have gotten Quinn from Browns.

i hope we trade Orton to another team for a draft pick, and take a qb in this year's draft, otherwise we're screwed for the next several years.

[Magnificent Seven]

Seriously, I'm glad that I didn't purchase Cutler's jersey in the year of 2006. It is safe to wear John Elway's jersey and I am still going to wear Elway jersey forever.

Too many problems with QBs after Elway's years.

[Timmy!]

Orton sucks. very disappointed in this aspect of the trade. I like the 2 first round picks and the 3rd rounder, but Orton is where we got the raw end of the deal.

should have gotten Quinn from Browns.

i hope we trade Orton to another team for a draft pick, and take a qb in this year's draft, otherwise we're screwed for the next several years.

I would have rather had Quinn too, but, tell me how, exactly, how Orton sucks so much?

Check the stats. Ask the teammates. The guy isn't an all star, but he most certainly does not suck. I put him on par with Simms before the trade, after looking into things and investigating all the stats, I'm surprised. I watched him plenty in college and knew he didn't suck, but I was surprised his stats weren't that terrible in the pro's. It's not like the bears have had anything resembling an offense the past couple years.

[Denver27og]

honestly... orton is better than quinn

[Elevation inc]

lets just hope MCD is as good a QB coach as he thinks he is.........if he is then we might do some damage.....if he isnt we will be looking at rick dennison as our headcoach in week 8

[Shazam!]

lets just hope MCD is as good a QB coach as he thinks he is.........if he is then we might do some damage...

Are you familiar with the Patriots' Offense at all? I have no doubt he's the man with Offense and QBs. But can he keep the team together after the debacle? Can Denver have a good Draft? Will they make more deals? If so, we're ok.

[Elevation inc]

Are you familiar with the Patriots' Offense at all? I have no doubt he's the man with Offense and QBs. But can he keep the team together after the debacle? Can Denver have a good Draft? Will they make more deals? If so, we're ok.


We shall see just how good he is...he just better pray he is as good as he thinks he is......


and seriously the guy never had to evaluate on a serious level defensive colleg prospects, forgive me for being very worried shanny was a coach for 15 years and it took the goodmans to finally make some smart choices and they were let go for a GM that himself said he doesnt have very much scouting expirience......yes sorry i am very worried about this draft based on the rookie mistakes up to this point....

[LoyalSoldier]

We shall see just how good he is...he just better pray he is as good as he thinks he is......


and seriously the guy never had to evaluate on a serious level defensive colleg prospects, forgive me for being very worried shanny was a coach for 15 years and it took the goodmans to finally make some smart choices and they were let go for a GM that himself said he doesnt have very much scouting expirience......yes sorry i am very worried about this draft based on the rookie mistakes up to this point....
Which has been my point all along. This trade is meaningless if these picks don't pan out and at this point in time we have two very big unknowns making use of those picks.

[Elevation inc]

Which has been my point all along. This trade is meaningless if these picks don't pan out and at this point in time we have two very big unknowns making use of those picks.

exactly nothing in there track record shows me they have what it takes to bank those picks.....i just wouldnt be as worried if the goodmans were still here

[Bozo Jr.]

If you can get past the weak arm and immobility......he is as good as it gets.

I prefer the balance of some "touch" with the fire. Who said you have to throw a bullet to win a SB. ;)

[LoyalSoldier]

I prefer the balance of some "touch" with the fire. Who said you have to throw a bullet to win a SB. ;)

You have to throw it fast enough to keep it from getting picked off.

[topscribe]

If you can get past the weak arm and immobility......he is as good as it gets.

That is a bad and very inaccurate rap on Orton. I watched all 65 of his
highlight clips on NFL Video Galleries (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80db9eea). Trust me, Orton has a very strong arm.
The guy can throw the rock.

I now suspect the Broncos got a better deal than we might have thought . . .

-----

[LoyalSoldier]

Are you familiar with the Patriots' Offense at all? I have no doubt he's the man with Offense and QBs. But can he keep the team together after the debacle? Can Denver have a good Draft? Will they make more deals? If so, we're ok.

Are you familiar with the last four Patriot Coordinators to become head coach?

[Bozo Jr.]

You have to throw it fast enough to keep it from getting picked off.

Or not throw it into triple coverage at all. :shocked:

[LoyalSoldier]

Or not throw it into triple coverage at all. :shocked:

You can't throw it into single coverage if you can't throw the ball fast enough. Lame ducks are free points for the defense.

[Timmy!]

You can't throw it into single coverage if you can't throw the ball fast enough. Lame ducks are free points for the defense.

As a WR, you know you're half right, but you also know better.

:tsk:

[LoyalSoldier]

As a WR, you know you're half right, but you also know better.

:tsk:

I am not saying you have to have a rocket arm like Elway or Farve, but you do need to be able to put some zip on the ball if you expect to be successful in the NFL. The window that a WR is open for is very short.

[Timmy!]

I am not saying you have to have a rocket arm like Elway or Farve, but you do need to be able to put some zip on the ball if you expect to be successful in the NFL. The window that a WR is open for is very short.

I agree and you make a fine point. 1/2 of what you speak of is arm strength (Cuter had it in bunches, and it was awesome to watch). Ask Tom Brady how 1/2 of it is brains, and can make even the most fickle fan dance like an idiot in the end. :D

[topscribe]

You can't throw it into single coverage if you can't throw the ball fast enough. Lame ducks are free points for the defense.


I am not saying you have to have a rocket arm like Elway or Farve, but you do need to be able to put some zip on the ball if you expect to be successful in the NFL. The window that a WR is open for is very short.

Here is an excerpt from an article in the Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12060003), in which Koutouvides
(remember him?), who was a college teammate of Orton's, provided his opinion
of Orton:


Former Broncos linebacker Niko Koutouvides, now with Tampa Bay, was a college teammate of Orton's at Purdue, and said the Broncos are getting a hard-working player with an arm that might rival Cutler's.

"He can really sling it," Koutouvides said. "When I was there, he was always a good teammate, always working out, throwing the 7-on-7, doing the extra stuff to make himself better. I have never heard of anyone having an issue with him as a teammate, even when he was in the NFL."

That arm strength was what first attracted Purdue coaches to Orton in the spring of 2000, before Orton was a senior in high school in Altoona, Iowa, near Des Moines. Once Orton enrolled in 2001, coaches were impressed by his poise. He started in the Sun Bowl as a true freshman.

-----

[Elevation inc]

Scouting report



Overview: Kyle was a relative unknown prepster, but saw the college recruits clamor for his attention after he starred at the Nike Camp (Champaign, Ill.) and Elite 11 Quarterback Camp (Cal.)... He was rated the second-best quarterback in the nation coming out of Southeast Polk (Altoona, Ia.) High School by Super Prep, where he also lettered in basketball, track and tennis. Orton threw for 1,366 yards with twelve touchdowns and five interceptions on 95 of 192 passes (49.5%) as a senior and hit on 208 of 450 attempts (46.2%) for 3,176 yards, 24 touchdowns and 18 interceptions during his three-year career...Lettered as a true freshman at Purdue, starting three of the seven games he appeared in. Kyle completed 107 of 216 passes (49.5%) for 1,105 yards with four touchdowns and seven interceptions. He gained national attention that year when he connected on 38 of 74 passes for 419 yards with two touchdowns vs. Washington State in Sun Bowl. The 74 attempts are the second-most in school history (Drew Brees had 83 at Wisconsin in 1998) and the most in NCAA bowl game history. He also set a bowl record with 83 offensive plays (previous marks were 63 passing attempts by Trent Dilfer of Fresno State vs. Colorado in the 1993 Aloha Bowl and 74 total plays by Tony Kimbrough of Western Michigan vs. Fresno State in the 1988 California Bowl)...Started nine games for the Boilermakers in 2002, connecting on 192 of 317 passes (60.6%) for 2,257 yards, 13 touchdowns and nine interceptions...In 2003, Orton was named the "Most Fearless Quarterback in the Big Ten Conference" by The Sporting News and was tabbed the "Most Accurate Passer, Strongest Arm and Coolest in the Clutch" in the Big Ten by Lindy's magazine. Kyle was named to the Davey O'Brien Award watch list (nation's outstanding quarterback) as he completed 251 of 414 passes (60.6%) for 2,885 yards with 15 touchdowns and just seven interceptions (interception percentage of 1.69 set a school record). He tied a school bowl record with two rushing touchdowns vs. Georgia in the Capital One Bowl, despite suffering a dislocated left thumb, sprained toe and cracked rib in that game, prompting head coach Joe Tiller to say it was "one of the two truly courageous performances I've seen in all my years of coaching." ...The 2004 season began with Orton being the favorite to win the Heisman Trophy. He threw for 1,367 yards, 17 touchdowns and no interceptions through the team's first four games before turnovers and injuries would see his senior campaign experience a big roadblock. A hip injury saw Kyle get benched vs. Northwestern and then sit out the next contest vs. Iowa. He returned in the fourth quarter of the Ohio State game, then set a school record the following week when he totaled 503 yards in the Indiana contest. Orton finished the year completing 236 of 389 passes (60.7%) for 3,090 yards, 31 touchdowns and only five interceptions...Closed out his career third on the school's all-time record lists with 786 completions in 1,336 pass attempts (58.8%) for 9,337 yards and 63 touchdowns, topped only by Drew Brees (1,026 of 1,678 passing for 11,792 yards and 90 touchdowns, 1997-2000) and Mark Herrmann (772 of 1,309 passing for 9,946 yards and 71 touchdowns, 1977-80)...Only Brees (12,692) gained more yards in total offense that Kyle's 9,653 in Purdue annals...His 9,337 passing yards rank fourth in Big Ten Conference history (behind Brees, Herrmann and Iowa's Chuck Long -- 10,461 yards, 1981-85)...Only 2.01% of his passes (28) were intercepted during his time at Purdue...He has seven 300-yard passing games (including one 500-yard game and two 400-yard games) to rank fourth in school history.

Analysis: Positives...He is a quiet, respected leader, but might need to get more vocal in order to command presence in the huddle at the next level...Has decent upper body strength, but despite adding ten pounds to his frame prior to 2004, he still lacks thickness and muscle definition in his lower body frame...Good athlete with a medium to long stride and adequate foot speed...Operates mostly out of the shotgun and while he shows a smooth, long release, he lacks quickness when dropping back from center in a conventional offense...Shows very good accuracy in the short to intermediate passing game, but he has a bit of a long windup and the ball fails to come off his hands quickly when having to throw long...Better throwing from the pocket, as his passes seem to lack velocity and accuracy when he is forced to throw on the move...Has no trouble reading defenses, but will tend to force the ball into coverage instead of taking what's there...Stays on his primary receiver too long...Has displayed the arm strength to fire tight spirals in the intermediate area...If anyone ever questions his toughness, they only have to go back and watch the 2003 Capitol One Bowl contest vs. Georgia, where he completed 20 of 34 passes for 230 yards and a touchdown while tying a school bowl record with two rushing touchdowns despite suffering a dislocated left thumb, sprained toe and cracked rib in that game. That prompted head coach Joe Tiller to say it was "one of the two truly courageous performances I've seen in all my years of coaching."...Has a snappy three-quarter-arm delivery and can pass with good velocity when not forced to throw off-balance...Tries to use his arm strength to get out of trouble, but fails to compensate for his feet not being set to throw...Has a very good understanding of the game, competes with tremendous effort and never complains...Effective on timing routes and crossing patterns, putting enough zip on the ball to allow the receivers to catch the pigskin in stride...Does a good job of picking up the blitz, but it may be too good, as he will get impatient waiting for his targets to get open and will run at the first sign of pressure...When he fails to get off his first read quickly, he will make poor decisions and force the ball into traffic...Not a threat to run and does not need to be accounted for in this area....Struggles getting back from center to his set point was evident during practices at the 2005 East-West Game, where he had a series of fumbles and poor center exchanges throughout the scrimmages...His hip injury stalled what was first thought to be a Heisman Trophy season during the first half of the 2004 season and further medical evaluation of that injury might be needed...Not a blue chip prospect, but gets the most out of his blue collar ability to provide good depth on a pro roster.

SOUNDS JUST LIKE WHAT MCD WANTED ALL ALONG.....




we could have done alot worse than orton......

[omac]

I agree and you make a fine point. 1/2 of what you speak of is arm strength (Cuter had it in bunches, and it was awesome to watch). Ask Tom Brady how 1/2 of it is brains, and can make even the most fickle fan dance like an idiot in the end. :D

Didn't that happen a few times with Cutler last season too ... I mean the dance like an idiot in the end? I know I was stoked when we got those come from behind wins. :cheers:

[sneakers]

I think he will be good, because he finally has some recievers to throw to for the first time in his career.

[claymore]

I cant believe Im excited Orton is our QB. This has to be a fricken dream.

[elsid13]

I cant believe Im excited Orton is our QB. This has to be a fricken dream.

Or you are still very drunk

[claymore]

Or you are still very drunk

LOL. We do have an issue though. How is simms going to make 3 times more than Orton?

[BigDaddyBronco]

I watched a lot of the Bear games last season before Orton got hurt. The guy is a gamer, he doesn't have the tools that Cutler does, but he finds a way to get it done.

Hell, he doesn't have the tools that Rex Grossman does (except for a brain), but who was the QB for the Bears over the last two years?

I don't think we'll be watching the return of John Elway, but if we get an Orange Crush defense in return, I'm ok with that.

[Tned]

Peter King is on Sirius NFL radio this morning and telling people to give Orton a chance, that they will be surprised. He said this trade was a lot about Orton, and that McDaniels and the Broncos really like Orton, and liked him better than the other QBs that were available to them, like Campell, .... (then my internet radio went out, and I didn't here if they mentioned quinn), but when he came back, said better than the QBs that were available to them in trade.

He also says that McDaniels learned in NE not to 'assume' and therefore he will let Simms and Orton decide on the field who the starter will be.

[Tned]

LOL. We do have an issue though. How is simms going to make 3 times more than Orton?

When they signed a backup QB (Simms) to $3 million a year, it was when I first really started to fear Denver and Jay might part ways.

[elsid13]

LOL. We do have an issue though. How is simms going to make 3 times more than Orton?

Orton is a caretaker at best, since he has one year left on his deal. We will draft a QB this draft. Hopefully we don't overpay for Sanchez......

[Tned]

Orton is a caretaker at best, since he has one year left on his deal. We will draft a QB this draft. Hopefully we don't overpay for Sanchez......

I don't follow NCAA, so am not that familiar with Sanchez, other than having his name thrown out.

What kind of QB is he? Senior? How many years starting?

[claymore]

Orton is a caretaker at best, since he has one year left on his deal. We will draft a QB this draft. Hopefully we don't overpay for Sanchez......

I dont want a USC QB. I dont care what anyone says. Give me a guy in a situation similar to what Cutler went to at Vanderbilt.

[CoachChaz]

Rewind to one year ago and pretend Cutler died in an accident. Then someone said the only two guys available to replace him were Matt Cassell and Kyle Orton. Who do you take?

[CoachChaz]

I dont want a USC QB. I dont care what anyone says. Give me a guy in a situation similar to what Cutler went to at Vanderbilt.

What about Purdue QB's?

[Nomad]

I'm anxious to see what magic McDaniels has with QBs (sortof like Shanny had with RBs...alledgedly). Orton is not a bad QB because (thanks to the Sunday Ticket) I was able to watch him on early games before his injury and he's a solid NFL QB and that was with the Bears offense.

[Tned]

I'm anxious to see what magic McDaniels has with QBs (sortof like Shanny had with RBs...alledgedly). Orton is not a bad QB because (thanks to the Sunday Ticket) I was able to watch him on early games before his injury and he's a solid NFL QB and that was with the Bears offense.


I think I'm going to pay the $20 for the NFL Rewind and watch the Bears games and get a feel for what Orton brings.

[TXBRONC]

I'm anxious to see what magic McDaniels has with QBs (sortof like Shanny had with RBs...alledgedly). Orton is not a bad QB because (thanks to the Sunday Ticket) I was able to watch him on early games before his injury and he's a solid NFL QB and that was with the Bears offense.

I wonder what kind of quarterback he would be with the 30th ranked defense rather than the 16th ranked defense? :coffee:

[Bozo Jr.]

That is a bad and very inaccurate rap on Orton. I watched all 65 of his
highlight clips on NFL Video Galleries (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80db9eea). Trust me, Orton has a very strong arm.
The guy can throw the rock.

I now suspect the Broncos got a better deal than we might have thought . . .

-----

I watched quite a few of those myself. I must say that I was kinda excited! :elefant:

[Simple Jaded]

Peter King is on Sirius NFL radio this morning and telling people to give Orton a chance, that they will be surprised. He said this trade was a lot about Orton, and that McDaniels and the Broncos really like Orton, and liked him better than the other QBs that were available to them, like Campell, .... (then my internet radio went out, and I didn't here if they mentioned quinn), but when he came back, said better than the QBs that were available to them in trade.

He also says that McDaniels learned in NE not to 'assume' and therefore he will let Simms and Orton decide on the field who the starter will be.

*crosses fingers* Please be Simms, please be Simms, please be Simms.

There is exactly nothing special about Kyle Orton, he's a dime-o-dozen starter in the NFL, I'm afraid we may have another Mike Shanahan/Runningback dynamic with Doogie and his QB's.......the problem is he doesn't have Belicheat and Scarnecchia to help him develop Orton while he runs an entire team.

As good as Orton turns out to be, it would have been that much better if Doogie didn't screw the pooch, and "Solid" just isn't good enough when you've just ran off a Franchise QB.

I want no part of a rookie Head Coach that thinks he's too good for the best players at the most important position, it's idiots like this that are doomed to fail......

[Nomad]

I wonder what kind of quarterback he would be with the 30th ranked defense rather than the 16th ranked defense? :coffee:

It's a new season fella! We'll see when the season begins and ends next year!;)

[CoachChaz]

*crosses fingers* Please be Simms, please be Simms, please be Simms.

There is exactly nothing special about Kyle Orton, he's a dime-o-dozen starter in the NFL, I'm afraid we may have another Mike Shanahan/Runningback dynamic with Doogie and his QB's.......the problem is he doesn't have Belicheat and Scarnecchia to help him develop Orton while he runs an entire team.

As good as Orton turns out to be, it would have been that much better if Doogie didn't screw the pooch, and "Solid" isn't good enough when you've just ran off a Franchise QB.

I want no part of a coach that thinks he's too good for the best players at the most important position, it's idiots like this that are doomed to fail......

Is this a joke? Has it not been proven that QB's with mediocre talent CAN succeed.

Ran off the QB? Is that the same one that demanded a trade and after seeing he could end up in FAR worse scenarios, said he never wanted the trade? You want to criticize McD for allegedly lying to Jay, but it's okay when Jay lies to us...the fans.

Some people are jaded beyond belief

[Tned]

I would like the irony of a "Simms" taking us to the SB.

[Rex]

Is this a joke? Has it not been proven that QB's with mediocre talent CAN succeed.

Ran off the QB? Is that the same one that demanded a trade and after seeing he could end up in FAR worse scenarios, said he never wanted the trade? You want to criticize McD for allegedly lying to Jay, but it's okay when Jay lies to us...the fans.

Some people are jaded beyond belief

Exactly.

I wonder what part of the team tried to call Cutler for 10 days and he refused to speak with them after selling his house and demanding a trade that they dont understand.

[Nomad]

I would like the irony of a "Simms" taking us to the SB.

I wonder if "Daddy" will find Denver a place in his heart!:lol:

[Simple Jaded]

I don't follow NCAA, so am not that familiar with Sanchez, other than having his name thrown out.

What kind of QB is he? Senior? How many years starting?

He's a Jr with 16 games as a starter, he's got a strong arm and can move but he's led a charmed life, not many close games.

He's not an option, imo Tned, unfortunately I think Doogie is going to take this as a challenge to prove himself by developing Orton.

Just as Doogie's ego wouldn't allow him to coach a talent like Jay Cutler, so to will his ego not allow him to see that he needs a massive upgrade at QB.......

[TXBRONC]

It's a new season fella! We'll see when the season begins and ends next year!;)

Well bub you were basing Orton preform on what happen lasted season if that wasn't what you meant maybe you shouldn't have said it. :coffee:

[claymore]

What about Purdue QB's?

I love the Orton trade. I am also under the impression He played in a similar offense at purdue.... Thats my main reason for liking the trade.

[BroncoJoe]

I'm just glad it's over.

[Nomad]

Well bub you were basing Orton preform on what happen lasted season if that wasn't what you meant maybe you shouldn't have said it. :coffee:

You should of stated past tense..."would have been".;) Who knows:whoknows:, why should I rack my brian over something like this? All we can do is move on and see what happens come Sept!

[BigDaddyBronco]

I love the Orton trade. I am also under the impression He played in a similar offense at purdue.... Thats my main reason for liking the trade.

Yes he did, and he put up great numbers at Purdue.

[claymore]

Yes he did, and he put up great numbers at Purdue.

I hope he shaves. Im not saying I want a handsome QB, but gosh damn, he looks like like a homless dude.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I hope he shaves. Im not saying I want a handsome QB, but gosh damn, he looks like like a homless dude.
I hope to God someone pulls him aside and says, "We used to have a QB here with a beard, his name was Jake Plummer..."

[claymore]

I hope to God someone pulls him aside and says, "We used to have a QB here with a beard, his name was Jake Plummer..."

I think the NFL should have some sort of dress code. Similar to the military.

[Simple Jaded]

Is this a joke? Has it not been proven that QB's with mediocre talent CAN succeed.

Ran off the QB? Is that the same one that demanded a trade and after seeing he could end up in FAR worse scenarios, said he never wanted the trade? You want to criticize McD for allegedly lying to Jay, but it's okay when Jay lies to us...the fans.

Some people are jaded beyond belief

Succeed at what, exactly? If you're talking about a mediocre talent like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, I think you're forgetting that it may take a lifetime to build the kind of defense those two enjoyed.

If you're not talking about the SB, than you're wasting your time.

As far as Cutler is concerned, this mess was Doogie's from the beginning, he's made every wrong move he could make.......who lied to who is secondary to the fact that this should have never happened in the first place. You do not trade a Franchise QB, especially not for Matt Cassell.

As for lying to the fans (--:rolleyes:--), I suppose you're talking about him saying he didn't want to leave. I can see him wanting stay, he asked to be traded from a team that was trying to trade him anyway because he couldn't trust them.......they're full of shit and he knows it.......

[BroncoJoe]

I hope he shaves. Im not saying I want a handsome QB, but gosh damn, he looks like like a homless dude.

http://www.shavekyleorton.blogspot.com/

[claymore]

http://www.shavekyleorton.blogspot.com/

LMAO. Its not even a nice full face bush like DC's. Its like an asian face bush or something.

[Dirk]

I hope he shaves. Im not saying I want a handsome QB, but gosh damn, he looks like like a homless dude.

I don't care what he looks like as long as he performs! Remember "Stink"?

[Shazam!]

I think the NFL should have some sort of dress code. Similar to the military.

As I said, see the NY Yankees Appearance Policy. I love that and think teams should have that too. I hated Plummer walking around like that looking like a whino. Especially the QB, the spokesman of the Offense, even if he isn't a superstar should look respectable. Now with Orton, maybe he'll clean up.


As far as Cutler is concerned, this mess was Doogie's from the beginning, he's made every wrong move he could make.......who lied to who is secondary to the fact that this should have never happened in the first place. You do not trade a Franchise QB, especially not for Matt Cassell....

Here we go again. 'Cassel sucks.' Do people really believe it is not possible that Cutler's style doesn't mesh with McDaniel's precision Offense and he knows Cassel is a better fit? Do people know so much about Cassel to know he sucks? Gimme a friggin' break. Cassel is in position to be a man that murders the Broncos for YEARS TO COME. Be careful what you wish for.

[Nomad]

I think the NFL should have some sort of dress code. Similar to the military.

That means they'd have to limit the tattoos!:D

[Simple Jaded]

As I said, see the NY Yankees Appearance Policy. I love that and think teams should have that too. I hated Plummer walking around like that looking like a whino. Especially the QB, the spokesman of the Offense, even if he isn't a superstar should look respectable. Now with Orton, maybe he'll clean up.



Here we go again. 'Cassel sucks.' Do people really believe it is not possible that Cutler's style doesn't mesh with McDaniel's precision Offense and he knows Cassel is a better fit? Do people know so much about Cassel to know he sucks? Gimme a friggin' break. Cassel is in position to be a man that murders the Broncos for YEARS TO COME. Be careful what you wish for.

I never said Cassell sucks, I said you do not trade a Franchise QB for Matt Cassell, who's been a career backup since high school.

And no, I do not believe that Cutler is not a great fit for any offense, he needs to work on his accuracy on his deep passes but other than that accuracy is not an issue and his timing is a huge asset.

The notion that Cutler doesn't fit Doogie's system is horseshit......

[CrazyHorse]

This seems familiar
http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2007/12/10/175x131/kyleorton77449052.jpghttp://images.quickblogcast.com/2/6/2/7/4/156627-147262/plummer.jpg

[Dirk]

This seems familiar
http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2007/12/10/175x131/kyleorton77449052.jpghttp://images.quickblogcast.com/2/6/2/7/4/156627-147262/plummer.jpg

:laugh:

[Shazam!]

I never said Cassell sucks, I said you do not trade a Franchise QB for Matt Cassell, who's been a career backup since high school.

And no, I do not believe that Cutler is not a great fit for any offense, he needs to work on his accuracy on his deep passes but other than that accuracy is not an issue and his timing is a huge asset.

The notion that Cutler doesn't fit Doogie's system is horseshit......

Last I checked he won 11 games as a Starter with no starting experience as a 'career backup' go figure.

He replaced an already legendary QB and sure HoFer. Most teams would've been dead in the water.

Right. Every QB can play in any system. Heh.

[Simple Jaded]

Last I checked he won 11 games as a Starter with no starting experience as a 'career backup' go figure.

He replaced an already legendary QB and sure HoFer. Most teams would've been dead in the water.

Right. Every QB can play in any system. Heh.

Again, I never said Cassell sucked and I never said every QB could play in any system. I said that you do not trade a Franchise QB for Matt Cassell and that Jay Cutler could fit in any system.

Are you going to stop putting words in my mouth or should I just move on?

Btw, if Cutler can't fit in Doogie's system, Bowlen hired the wrong guy, didn't he?.......

[Shazam!]

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You just don't like what you're hearing. Sorry.

Cassel - Career Backup - Won 11 games in his first season replacing Super MVP/HoFer.

I am glad your professional football analysis skills are so finely tuned to say Cassel isn't a franchise QB. What do you do for a living again?

Not all QBs fit in every system- Cutler isn't a QB now? Jake Plummer can play in a run n' shoot? Even Elway couldn't play in any system.

[Elevation inc]

As I said, see the NY Yankees Appearance Policy. I love that and think teams should have that too. I hated Plummer walking around like that looking like a whino. Especially the QB, the spokesman of the Offense, even if he isn't a superstar should look respectable. Now with Orton, maybe he'll clean up.



Here we go again. 'Cassel sucks.' Do people really believe it is not possible that Cutler's style doesn't mesh with McDaniel's precision Offense and he knows Cassel is a better fit? Do people know so much about Cassel to know he sucks? Gimme a friggin' break. Cassel is in position to be a man that murders the Broncos for YEARS TO COME. Be careful what you wish for.


well cassel had a bad record record against good teams, he choked under pressure, wasnt very composed in or on the field, and was a big reason New england didnt make the playoffs.....he even had a respectable defense, and a okay run game to boot......


people just see what they wanna see sometimes......


personally i would take brett ratliff, kyle orton, or jason campbell over matt cassel, becasue all 3 stay much more composed under pressure and in big situations.....


so for me i wouold have been really pissed becasue he really isnt a good QB, its like tatum bell, not a great RB but in denvers system he performed admirably at times.....thats cassell the qb for ya.....i'll pass......


any player can at times look good in ones system, doesnt mean the yare good Qb's....that will suceede elsewhere, cutlers talent far outweighed what cassel brought to the table. and how does MCd know if jay didnt fit his system, he never even gave the dude a shot, he tells jay im stoked, then the day jay leaves for vacation he tries to trade him.....


ummmmm my head hurts from this crap......

go kyle orton....

[Simple Jaded]

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You just don't like what you're hearing. Sorry.

Cassel - Career Backup - Won 11 games in his first season replacing Super MVP/HoFer.

I am glad your professional football analysis skills are so finely tuned to say Cassel isn't a franchise QB. What do you do for a living again?

Not all QBs fit in every system- Cutler isn't a QB now? Jake Plummer can play in a run n' shoot? Even Elway couldn't play in any system.

You are saying I said something I did not say, how is that not putting words in my mouth?

As for Cassell not being a Franchise QB, that's not just me that thinks that, winning 11 games with a 18-1 SuperBowl team doesn't make you a Franchise QB and aside from Doogie and Scott Pioli you'll have a hard time finding many people to agree with you. Until now you've stopped short of saying that, you should have quit while you were ahead.

As for my skills as an analyst, I simply go by the eyeball test, but then again, I'm not making wild claims like you.......I'm only stating the fact that you do not trade a player that 99% of the NFL community would agree is a Franchise QB.

Most Franchise QB's can play in any system, especially John Elway, Elway took teams to a SB in a system that nobody would want to play in. For three and a half quarters it was Run Winder right, run Winder left, run Winder up the middle and hope John Elway could pull another out of his ass when the offense needed a big play.

I say that Cutler can play in any system because there isn't a damn thing the dude can't do on the football field, there aren't many QB's with his ability in the league.......you say he can't because?.......?.......well just because. Great argument.......

[Simple Jaded]

"The saddest thing here? Cutler could have been a truly great player in McDaniels' offense. He may be great with the Bears; he certainly has the talent to be. But the Denver attack was tailor-made for Cutler's brains and ability to throw the deep ball. Whatever he says now, I know he'll always wonder how great he could have been in that offense, with that bright young coach -- whether he liked McDaniels or not."--Peter King

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/02/cutler.reaction.ap/index.html?eref=T1

Looks like Peter King needs to fine tune his professional football analysis skills too.......

[elsid13]

I don't follow NCAA, so am not that familiar with Sanchez, other than having his name thrown out.

What kind of QB is he? Senior? How many years starting?

He a JR coming out early that has about 16 start over his career. That negative. On the positive he football "smart", has decent mobility, good release (but he will hold onto to long waiting for receivers to uncover) and ok arm. Think more Brady then Cutler.

[OrangeHoof]

lets just hope MCD is as good a QB coach as he thinks he is.........if he is then we might do some damage.....if he isnt we will be looking at rick dennison as our headcoach in week 8

No chance. McDiapers will be given two years minimum to fail. Any quicker and it makes the CEO look like a fool.

[getlynched47]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8520

Career completion percentage: 55.3%

Career Average Per Pass: 5.8

Career Touchdown-Interception Ratio: 30/27

Career QB Rating: 71.1

Sounds like a real great player :rolleyes:

[Watchthemiddle]

well cassel had a bad record record against good teams, he choked under pressure, wasnt very composed in or on the field, and was a big reason New england didnt make the playoffs.....he even had a respectable defense, and a okay run game to boot......




Is that Cassel of Cutler you are talking about? Cutler had a bad record period...whether it be against a good team...NE, or bad team Raiders ....what was the final score at home against the Raiders this year? How many INT's did he have? ANd people want to point ALL of the blame on the D.

[Broncospsycho77]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8520

Career completion percentage: 55.3% with Chicago

Career Average Per Pass: 5.8 with Chicago

Career Touchdown-Interception Ratio: 30/27 with Chicago

Career QB Rating: 71.1 with Chicago

Sounds like a real great player :rolleyes:

Here, I fixed some of the stats for you...

Our best facet of the offense might be our line. Give anybody enough time to throw it, and good things will happen. Orton's not great by any standard, but he can get the job done.

Jay Cutler got traded. He's not coming back.

[de_real_deal]

Orton is pretty good. I dont think you guys will lose too much production out of the QB postion. Look what orton had in CHI(joke Hester and another scrub @ starting receiver, garbage O-line) and look what Cutler was given(good run game, decent line, awesome weapons @ receiver every year) plus conservative coaches in CHI vs offensive minded in DEN.

The drop off wont be that big so long as they build the offense around Ortons talents instead of expecting him to be Cutler.

Plus 2 1st rounders & a 3rd. Good day for the Broncos IMO.

[NameUsedBefore]

Orton is not "pretty good", what is this? He has never had a team actually put on his shoulders and he may just have that done this year just like Cutler did last. Tell me how Orton does when the defenses don't respect the run at all and he has to throw 600+ passes while his defense folds. The guy is your typical game manager: noodle-arm, immobile, and accurate enough to dump it off to his RB, which is what a large percentage of his passes consist of.

Our defense was so bad last year it acknowledged its irrelevancy. I get the optimism, but if it's the same story from last year where we're having to drop the running-game at halftime and throwing 40/50 passes a game while the defense can't get any turnovers nor stops, it isn't going to be pretty.

That we won eight games last year amazes me. That many around here take it for granted, namely out of statistical-arguments which fail to incorporate the "team" element that, you know, is really important in football, is just as surprising.

Like I said, if it's the same story with new faces next year, and it's Orton (or Simms, I mean who is really the starter out of those two?) instead of Cutler throwing 50-passes, yeesh... It's going to be a mess.

[getlynched47]

Here, I fixed some of the stats for you...

Our best facet of the offense might be our line. Give anybody enough time to throw it, and good things will happen. Orton's not great by any standard, but he can get the job done.

Jay Cutler got traded. He's not coming back.

I never mentioned Cutler's name.......you did :coffee:

I was posting Orton's stats because it's comical that some people compare him to a good QB.

[Broncospsycho77]

I never mentioned Cutler's name.......you did :coffee:

Your opinion has been well established... more of a general statement of the entire situation than at your post specifically.


I was posting Orton's stats because it's comical that some people compare him to a good QB.

In that context, it would be better to post his stats from last year, rather than his entire career, because, though he wasn't good by most standards, his stats were somewhat better last year.

If he starts for Denver, I think he can maintain something in the low 80s with the weapons around him and more than 3 seconds to make a pass.

[getlynched47]

Your opinion has been well established... more of a general statement of the entire situation than at your post specifically.



In that context, it would be better to post his stats from last year, rather than his entire career, because, though he wasn't good by most standards, his stats were somewhat better last year.

If he starts for Denver, I think he can maintain something in the low 80s with the weapons around him and more than 3 seconds to make a pass.

I hope so...

[MileHighWrath]

McDaniels was the QB coach for future HOFer Tom Brady for 4 years and the OC that turned M Cassel from oblivion into a $14 million QB ... while he's obviously not anywhere near good enough for Jane (I cry when I don't get my way) Cutler, I'm interested to see what he does with Orton.

And who, exactly, is Cutler going to be using that monster arm to throw to in Chicago?

[topscribe]

"The saddest thing here? Cutler could have been a truly great player in McDaniels' offense. He may be great with the Bears; he certainly has the talent to be. But the Denver attack was tailor-made for Cutler's brains and ability to throw the deep ball. Whatever he says now, I know he'll always wonder how great he could have been in that offense, with that bright young coach -- whether he liked McDaniels or not."--Peter King

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/02/cutler.reaction.ap/index.html?eref=T1

Looks like Peter King needs to fine tune his professional football analysis skills too.......

I ordinarily have little use for Peter King, but he is spot on here . . .

-----

[Broncolingus]

No, probably not the next John Elway, but I'm willing to give dude a season (or two depending) to see what he's got...

...and NOT with a very good offense to boot...although, he's had a decent defense during his time.

Hey, Denver's had Dink and Plummbor in recent memory...I don't see him being any worse than either of those guys...

[de_real_deal]

The guy is your typical game manager: noodle-arm, immobile, and accurate enough to dump it off to his RB, which is what a large percentage of his passes consist of.



I'm a Packer fan. I have no reason to give props to a Bear or former Bear who buries his face in his male friends jeans.

That said, you must not have seen Orton play much. I saw him play at least 10 full games last year. Like I said, considering his lack of weapons, lack of O-line, he played very well. Does he throw as hard as Elway, Favre or Cutler..........no he doesnt. Do many qb's throw that hard? Nope.

1st, Orton does not have a noodle arm. His arm is average/above average, he takes care of the ball and hits the open man. Your coach will help him adjust just fine especially with Brandon Marshall & co. over there.

It's not Ortons fault that Jay Cutler is a whiny little bitch and cant get over himself. Seriously, he aint John Elway. He's proven nothing other than the fact the he's not a winner. Trade rumors shouldnt effect him like this. I have a feeling he's looking for a big payday. Guarantee you he gets a huge contract in less than a month. Can you say..........Jeff George........actually, Jeff George had a better arm.

[de_real_deal]

I never mentioned Cutler's name.......you did :coffee:

I was posting Orton's stats because it's comical that some people compare him to a good QB.

Posting stats to show he's not a good qb?

This isnt Madden football. Stats are pretty useless a lot of the time. Different style of offense. MUCH different supporting cast. Stop being a crybaby, life will go on.

[Shazam!]

This isnt Madden football.

Not that it was done now but it was done in the past. I HATE it when people compare stuff in the NFL to Madden, like comparing a player's rating or the rating of an Offense or Defense. It is meaningless and I have seen it done too many times.

[de_real_deal]

And who, exactly, is Cutler going to be using that monster arm to throw to in Chicago?

Ex University of Miami cornerback-reject turned #1 starting NFL receiver Devin Hester.

[bcbronc]

Not that it was done now but it was done in the past. I HATE it when people compare stuff in the NFL to Madden, like comparing a player's rating or the rating of an Offense or Defense. It is meaningless and I have seen it done too many times.

I don't care, you can't make me trade Cutler for Orton in my dynasty. :cool:

[Shazam!]

Wouldn't you just have Manning or Brady in your dynasty... or a created Elway.

[TXBRONC]

I ordinarily have little use for Peter King, but he is spot on here . . .

-----

Sadly I have to agree. :sad:

[elsid13]

McDaniels was the QB coach for future HOFer Tom Brady for 4 years and the OC that turned M Cassel from oblivion into a $14 million QB ... while he's obviously not anywhere near good enough for Jane (I cry when I don't get my way) Cutler, I'm interested to see what he does with Orton.

And who, exactly, is Cutler going to be using that monster arm to throw to in Chicago?

It not like the season has started and Chicago can not make any more moves in FA or later in the draft

Right Cutler has Olsen and Clark at TE. Both can catch the ball. There is Bennett, his Vandy teammate, that entering his second year in the NFL that highly thought of and favorite target of Cutler in college. There are a number of Veteran Wide Receivers out there, like Harrison or Plaxico, which give the Chicago Front Office flexibility on the outside. Finally this deep draft for Wide Receiver spot. And the talent in the second or later is as good as the talent in the first.

[MOtorboat]

It not like the season has started and Chicago can not make any more moves in FA or later in the draft

Right Cutler has Olsen and Clark at TE. Both can catch the ball. There is Bennett, his Vandy teammate, that entering his second year in the NFL that highly thought of and favorite target of Cutler in college. There are a number of Veteran Wide Receivers out there, like Harrison or Plaxico, which give the Chicago Front Office flexibility on the outside. Finally this deep draft for Wide Receiver spot. And the talent in the second or later is as good as the talent in the first.

They will draft a few wide receivers, but I doubt they sign any high-priced wide receivers when they won't even pay their own top-of-the-league linebackers without drama.

[Dean]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8520

Career completion percentage: 55.3%

Career Average Per Pass: 5.8

Career Touchdown-Interception Ratio: 30/27

Career QB Rating: 71.1

Sounds like a real great player :rolleyes:

Here is Orton's breaksown year by year.



Height: 6-4 Weight: 217 Age: 26

Born: 11/14/1982 Altoona , IA

College: Purdue

Experience: 5th season

Career Stats more
Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles
G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2008 Chicago Bears 15 15 272 465 58.5 2,972 6.4 18 12 27 160 79.6 24 49 2.0 3 6 5
2007 Chicago Bears 3 3 43 80 53.8 478 6.0 3 2 2 12 73.9 5 -1 -0.2 0 2 0
2006 Chicago Bears 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2005 Chicago Bears 15 15 190 368 51.6 1,869 5.1 9 13 30 190 59.7 24 44 1.8 0 12 5
TOTAL 505 913 55.3 5,319 5.8 30 27 59 362 71.1 53 92 1.7 3 20 10

He has shown improvement. However, if the defense can't give him strong support it looks to me like he could struggle.

[elsid13]

They will draft a few wide receivers, but I doubt they sign any high-priced wide receivers when they won't even pay their own top-of-the-league linebackers without drama.

They aren't going to have to spend a lot to get decent veteran wide receiver. They have the most important part of offense a QB that paired with very good running game is going to able to stretch the field and score.

Right now Chicago has stability at the most important position the team, the question is does Denver? We are all in wait and see mode. We need to draft a QB this season if Simms or Orton aren't the answer and have someone waiting in the wings to take over. We are to far behind the curve to getting back to the playoffs if the team waits to next years draft.

[elsid13]

Here is Orton's breaksown year by year.




He has shown improvement. However, if the defense can't give him strong support it looks to me like he could struggle.

It the number of sacks that scares me. The Denver line was good, but low sack total was result of Cutler ability to move when the play broke down.

[MOtorboat]

They aren't going to have to spend a lot to get decent veteran wide receiver. They have the most important part of offense a QB that paired with very good running game is going to able to stretch the field and score.

Right now Chicago has stability at the most important position the team, the question is does Denver? We are all in wait and see mode. We need to draft a QB this season if Simms or Orton aren't the answer and have someone waiting in the wings to take over. We are to far behind the curve to getting back to the playoffs if the team waits to next years draft.

I think that it could be argued that Chicago was a few steps closer to the promised land than Denver was anyway.

The coaching change re-affirms that. (At least in terms of Bowlen seeing the same thing)

So, McDaniels took his most valuable commodity and got a lot for him. I don't think McDaniels wanted to trade Cutler, but Cutler forced his hand. Regardless...Cutler is gone.

We still have a starting quarterback in Kyle Orton, and a capable backup in Chris Simms.

There's something to be said in a 21-12 record, regardless of other factors.

Offensively, this team can still be Top 10, and with an improved defense (of course, we have yet to see what our defense will look like, but IF its improved), this could be a wild card team. If San Diego falls off more - which I really don't seeing happening this year, but maybe in two years - Denver could easily be back on top of the AFC West, and competing in the playoffs. Remember, we've got four No. 1 picks in the next two years. It puts a lot of pressure on McDaniels, but it also gives us a lot of opportunity,

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I think that it could be argued that Chicago was a few steps closer to the promised land than Denver was anyway.

The coaching change re-affirms that. (At least in terms of Bowlen seeing the same thing)

So, McDaniels took his most valuable commodity and got a lot for him. I don't think McDaniels wanted to trade Cutler, but Cutler forced his hand. Regardless...Cutler is gone.

We still have a starting quarterback in Kyle Orton, and a capable backup in Chris Simms.

There's something to be said in a 21-12 record, regardless of other factors.

Offensively, this team can still be Top 10, and with an improved defense (of course, we have yet to see what our defense will look like, but IF its improved), this could be a wild card team. If San Diego falls off more - which I really don't seeing happening this year, but maybe in two years - Denver could easily be back on top of the AFC West, and competing in the playoffs. Remember, we've got four No. 1 picks in the next two years. It puts a lot of pressure on McDaniels, but it also gives us a lot of opportunity,

I actually think the Bears were going the wrong direction. They lost both starting OTs and Pace is washed up. They have no WRs to speak of and their D is aging/slipping rapidly. I hope Jay enjoys his time in Chitown. I think we're in much better shape to be successful sooner.

[Northman]

It the number of sacks that scares me. The Denver line was good, but low sack total was result of Cutler ability to move when the play broke down.

Orton took more sacks in Chicago because their Oline sucks. Jay will be doing a lot of running there if they dont fix it. In Denver, Orton will get more time which will probably seem like an Eternity to him.

[elsid13]

Orton took more sacks in Chicago because their Oline sucks. Jay will be doing a lot of running there if they dont fix it. In Denver, Orton will get more time which will probably seem like an Eternity to him.

Orton also doesn't have quick release. The Denver line is good but it not as great as some believe. A lot of time the sack is result of what the QB does not the line.

[Shazam!]

I think that it could be argued that Chicago was a few steps closer to the promised land than Denver was anyway.

The coaching change re-affirms that. (At least in terms of Bowlen seeing the same thing)

So, McDaniels took his most valuable commodity and got a lot for him. I don't think McDaniels wanted to trade Cutler, but Cutler forced his hand. Regardless...Cutler is gone.

We still have a starting quarterback in Kyle Orton, and a capable backup in Chris Simms.

There's something to be said in a 21-12 record, regardless of other factors.

Offensively, this team can still be Top 10, and with an improved defense (of course, we have yet to see what our defense will look like, but IF its improved), this could be a wild card team. If San Diego falls off more - which I really don't seeing happening this year, but maybe in two years - Denver could easily be back on top of the AFC West, and competing in the playoffs. Remember, we've got four No. 1 picks in the next two years. It puts a lot of pressure on McDaniels, but it also gives us a lot of opportunity,

Excellent post.

Even if Denver is moved to e middle-of-the-pack status defensively, that would be a massive imrovement (how sad is that?) and with an offense not turned into a complete joke, Denver will be fine. The tools are there, good Oline and WRs. Gotta give McD and Nolan a chance. They didn't come here to lose.

[de_real_deal]

Here is Orton's breaksown year by year.




He has shown improvement. However, if the defense can't give him strong support it looks to me like he could struggle.

Or, he can get a bunch of garbage time stats like Cutler did in DEN

[slyinky]

Some interesting numbers comparing Orton's Bears led offense through his first 7 games before being injured and Cutler's Broncos led offense over the full 16 games:

Chicago averaged 28 pts a game through Orton's first 7 games (only New Orleans, at 28.9, averaged more over a full season). Of those 7 games, 3 were against top 10 scoring defenses (Phil, T.B., Ind) and 3 more were just outside the top 10 (#11 Atl, #12 Car, #13 Minn).

Denver averaged 23.1 pts per game for the season, good for 16th overall. Of those 16 games, only 3 were against top 10 scoring defenses (T.B., N.E., Mia) and 2 were just outside the top 10 (#11 Atl, #12 Car).

Chicago's Orton led offense through the first 7 games faced 6 teams that allowed less than 21 pts a game for the season. Chicago averaged 27 pts a game in those contests.

Denver's Cutler led offense over 16 games faced 5 teams that allowed less than 21 pts a game for the season. Denver averaged 14.8 pts a game in those contests.

[topscribe]

Here is Orton's breaksown year by year.




He has shown improvement. However, if the defense can't give him strong support it looks to me like he could struggle.

Hmmm . . . kind of like our last one did, right? :coffee:

-----

[turftoad]

Bears | Urlacher defends Orton
Share:
Sat, 04 Apr 2009 05:48:43 -0700

Vaughn McClure, of the Chicago Tribune, reports Chicago Bears LB Brian Urlacher believes the team has improved with the addition of QB Jay Cutler, but he also believes the team lost a valuable member in QB Kyle Orton. "I guess we got better as a team," Urlacher said. "You get a quarterback who is a Pro Bowl guy. But I will say this: I think Kyle Orton is a good quarterback. He's a great teammate. I hope he does really well in Denver."

[Broncos Mtnman]

He has shown improvement. However, if the defense can't give him strong support it looks to me like he could struggle.

Sorry, but a bad defense can't be used as an excuse for QB play.

:coffee:

[slim]

Bears | Urlacher defends Orton
Share:
Sat, 04 Apr 2009 05:48:43 -0700

Vaughn McClure, of the Chicago Tribune, reports Chicago Bears LB Brian Urlacher believes the team has improved with the addition of QB Jay Cutler, but he also believes the team lost a valuable member in QB Kyle Orton. "I guess we got better as a team," Urlacher said. "You get a quarterback who is a Pro Bowl guy. But I will say this: I think Kyle Orton is a good quarterback. He's a great teammate. I hope he does really well in Denver."

I wonder why none of the Bronco's players have said anything like that about Jay? Maybe the coach told them to keep their mouth shut? Or maybe they just don't have anything positive to say?

[MOtorboat]

Sorry, but a bad defense can't be used as an excuse for QB play.

:coffee:

What excuse can we use for whining, turning tail on your team and lying?

[Dean]

Or, he can get a bunch of garbage time stats like Cutler did in DEN


You gave Yourself a thumbs up for this post?

You are either drunk, have no idea what you are doing, or have one hell of a superiority complex. When the front office of 10 NFL teams are trying to get a trade for you, it isn't garbage time stats that induced the feeding frenzy.

[Reidman]

These threads saying Orton is any good make me........:lol:

Did anybody watch this guy play? He sucks...utterly and purely.

I watched Bears games last year and thanked God we didn't have him as a QB on our team!! Karma maybe...???

[Tned]

I was talking today with a friend who lives in Chicago. He was saying that while Orton played good before he hurt his ankle, that he completed almost all his passes to the right. He didn't have any completions over 20 yards (in the air, not catch and run), and that he can't throw across his body back to the left, or often even the middle.

I asked if that is purely lack of arm strength or no time, and he said he thought a little of each. He said other than throwing deep a couple times a game to keep the defense honest, and typically not completing them, the passing game was mostly short throws to the rght.

He said the people in Chicago are REALLY excited about the move to get Cutler.

[bcbronc]

I was talking today with a friend who lives in Chicago. He was saying that while Orton played good before he hurt his ankle, that he completed almost all his passes to the right. He didn't have any completions over 20 yards (in the air, not catch and run), and that he can't throw across his body back to the left, or often even the middle.

I asked if that is purely lack of arm strength or no time, and he said he thought a little of each. He said other than throwing deep a couple times a game to keep the defense honest, and typically not completing them, the passing game was mostly short throws to the rght.

He said the people in Chicago are REALLY excited about the move to get Cutler.

the red doesn't concern me. only freaks can make that throw anyway. yes, Cutler could make it, but I don't see that ability being a minimum requirement for success in McDaniel's system.

for the 20+ completions, I don't know if that's a stat I lay on Orton's arm. I'm sure Beefy Bear can speak on this better than I can, but I'd say the Bear's offensive line and wr stable played some part in it. and Chicago's system is somewhat conservative.

it will be interesting to see if Chicago opens up their offense a bit to take advantage of Jay's strengths, and if he'll be able to reel in the gunslinger when his coach wants him to. I'm not totally convinced Cutler and Lovie Smith's philosophy will be a match made in heaven.

but I can definitely understand why Bears' fans are excited. And Jay really looks excited too, in his NFLN interview. I'm excited to see what he does do there next season.

[de_real_deal]

Sorry, but a bad defense can't be used as an excuse for QB play.

:coffee:

Exactly, if anything, a bad defense gives a QB more opportunities to chuck it down the field all game and inflate those stats.

[NameUsedBefore]

I was talking today with a friend who lives in Chicago. He was saying that while Orton played good before he hurt his ankle, that he completed almost all his passes to the right. He didn't have any completions over 20 yards (in the air, not catch and run), and that he can't throw across his body back to the left, or often even the middle.

I asked if that is purely lack of arm strength or no time, and he said he thought a little of each. He said other than throwing deep a couple times a game to keep the defense honest, and typically not completing them, the passing game was mostly short throws to the rght.

He said the people in Chicago are REALLY excited about the move to get Cutler.

This is all largely the case.

He has very poor pocket presence as well, I'd add.

[Tned]

This is all largely the case.

He has very poor pocket presence as well, I'd add.

I watched the Bears some in the year he won 10 (was a rookie or second year, I think) and he didn't look good at all. I'm going to get that NFL rewind thing and watch his games from last year to get a better feel for him.

I'm also not ready to completely give up on Simms. I thought he played decent in some of his Tampa games. He also clearly showed toughness playing with a ruptured spleen. We signed him to a two year, six million dollar contract, which I thought was an early indication that Cutler might not be around. That's a pretty hefty contract for a backup QB.

[NameUsedBefore]

I'd go with Simms easy over Orton if it weren't for Simms injury. It's unfortunate to say, but Simms' injury really was/is serious stuff.

[getlynched47]

I'd go with Simms easy over Orton if it weren't for Simms injury. It's unfortunate to say, but Simms' injury really was/is serious stuff.

When his [Simms] spleen was removed, all his football skills went with it...

[Dreadnought]

These threads saying Orton is any good make me........:lol:

Did anybody watch this guy play? He sucks...utterly and purely.

I watched Bears games last year and thanked God we didn't have him as a QB on our team!! Karma maybe...???

QFT. Kyle Orton is a walking disaster. I would lure Joey Harrington to Dove Valley in preference to this stiff. Is Brian Griese busy these days? Can we get Patrick Ramsey back? The guy is a bad joke and possibly the worst QB in the NFL not named Tavaris Jackson.

[de_real_deal]

You gave Yourself a thumbs up for this post?

You are either drunk, have no idea what you are doing, or have one hell of a superiority complex. When the front office of 10 NFL teams are trying to get a trade for you, it isn't garbage time stats that induced the feeding frenzy.

Hmm.....ok. "When the front office of 10 NFL teams are trying to get a trade for you". Lets start with that. How smart are all of these GM's anyway? Sure, they are in football and should know more about the game than you or I. But, if they're so smart, why would they give 40-50 million guaranteed to college QB's who have proven nothing? Tim Couch, Jamarcus, Cryin Leaf, Jeff George.......I could go on and on and on and on with their dumb decision making.

The Bears for example, went into last season with a starting receiver(Hester) who was a rejected DB in college and had not played organized offense since high school. The Bears had a team that could compete but was hamstrung by it's garbage receiving talent. The Bears draft busts year after year in the draft, especially @ QB. They were desperate and their coach & GM were looking for something to maybe save their jobs so they mortgaged their draft this year and next to slightly upgrade the QB position. All they had to do was go after a couple legit receivers and a couple of O-lineman but they, just like many nfl mgmt, are idiots.

The Redskins were in the running for Cutler as well. If you've been a football fan in the past 10 years, I should have to say no more. The Lions, Jets, Vikings, Bucs & probably Rams were in serious talks to get Cutler. Why? Because their QB's are complete shit and Cutler is the best option out there this off season. Doesn't mean Cutler is John Elway. Hell, even the Broncos didn't really want him. They thought so much of him that they wanted to go after a one year wonder with inflated stats because of his supporting cast and experience in the system(Cassell).

Yes, I high fived myself as a joke, i know what i'm doing. And no, I dont have a superiority complex, I have an inferiority complex.

[Shazam!]

Shanahan made Jake a better QB, maybe McDaniels can do the same with Orton. He seems like a blue collar type that won't wow you, but if he can limit his mistakes and spread the ball around with decent protection, maybe he'll be ok.

McD will almost definitely Draft a QB in the later rounds. I still woulda rather got Quinn or Brennan though...

[getlynched47]

Shanahan made Jake a better QB, maybe McDaniels can do the same with Orton. He seems like a blue collar type that won't wow you, but if he can limit his mistakes and spread the ball around with decent protection, maybe he'll be ok.

McD will almost definitely Draft a QB in the later rounds. I still woulda rather got Quinn or Brennan though...

I agree. If Orton can stay healthy for 16 games, not get benched, and if the offensive line holds up like last year, Orton should have no problems throwing for a respectable 3000 yards and at least 15 TDs. The stats wont wow you, but they're solid.

As for Quinn, that ship has sailed IMO. We need both first round picks to draft defense.

[de_real_deal]

Do you guys just check the stat box and decide who is and isn't a good QB? I would bet my left nut that none of the people in here saying Orton sucks has seen any extensive game film on him. It's obvious. Stop pouting. Cutler aint coming back. Crafty tongued Kyle is your QB, Chris Simms only has a job because of his father, he really sucks ass. Giving him 6 Mil over 2 years is pretty unbelievable.

[Shazam!]

...in the later rounds, they will Draft a QB and cut Jackson. Bet on it.

[getlynched47]

Do you guys just check the stat box and decide who is and isn't a good QB? I would bet my left nut that none of the people in here saying Orton sucks has seen any extensive game film on him. It's obvious. Stop pouting. Cutler aint coming back. Crafty tongued Kyle is your QB, Chris Simms only has a job because of his father, he really sucks ass. Giving him 6 Mil over 2 years is pretty unbelievable.

Yeah we already know that Orton and Simms suck :rolleyes:

**** of here :coffee:

[Shazam!]

Do you guys just check the stat box and decide who is and isn't a good QB?

21-12 as a Starter. Better than the rocket-armed-bitch LeJay.

[Timmy!]

I agree. If Orton can stay healthy for 16 games, not get benched, and if the offensive line holds up like last year, Orton should have no problems throwing for a respectable 3000 yards and at least 15 TDs. The stats wont wow you, but they're solid.

As for Quinn, that ship has sailed IMO. We need both first round picks to draft defense.

Hell, he put up 3k yards and 18 TD's in 15 games (not healthy for all of them) behind a shitty O-line and sub par wr's last year. He SHOULD do fine with an O-line and some weapons.

[Dreadnought]

21-12 as a Starter. Better than the rocket-armed-bitch LeJay.

That stat couldn't be less relevant. I've watched this dud play plenty (I watch the Bears a lot for the early game) and he is a human toothache.

[NameUsedBefore]

Saying Orton is bad isn't pouting.

That does seem to be the most common argument these days though. Any criticism of the fact that Denver has dug itself into a large hole and has to use the draft to get out is, "Ha! Go root for the Bears!" Any note of the fact that Orton isn't exactly a brilliant QB is met with accusations of "pouting".

There are correlations, of course. Like how suddenly Orton can win games and have his terrible QB-ratings excused while Cutler simply lost games regardless of context. Or that Cutler was a drunk for being seen with a beer in hand, but Orton is a grizzly warrior carrying around a handle of 40 in a slew of photo albums.

[getlynched47]

Hell, he put up 3k yards and 18 TD's in 15 games (not healthy for all of them) behind a shitty O-line and sub par wr's last year. He SHOULD do fine with an O-line and some weapons.

I wouldnt go that far...

We still don't know how he will do without a defense capable of creating turnovers or a runningback that can make the opposing defense throw a safety in the box.

[Shazam!]

The Broncos defense will be hands-down better than the last two seasons I guarantee. Maybe a middle-of-the-pack improvement, but that is still a dramatic step in the right direction and maybe they can pull out a stop on 2nd and 22 that they couldn't before.

It's pretty sad when you hope your defense can be a 15th or so ranked defense. Shows just how awful the unit has been.

You'd be surprised what a new staff and environment can do for a QB. Look at Chad Pennington. Everybody left him for dead, and the guy has an arm of a secretary. How'd he pan out for 1-15 Miami?

[Timmy!]

I wouldnt go that far...

We still don't know how he will do without a defense capable of creating turnovers or a runningback that can make the opposing defense throw a safety in the box.

This is true. It's why so much hinges on the draft. Actually, the Broncos, as a team, rushed for 200 more yards than the Bears did last year, believe it or not. Yes, some of that is because teams were more geared to stop the pass against us, but it still makes you raise an eyebrow. I never would have thought that until I saw the stats.

[de_real_deal]

Saying Orton is bad isn't pouting.

That does seem to be the most common argument these days though. Any criticism of the fact that Denver has dug itself into a large hole and has to use the draft to get out is, "Ha! Go root for the Bears!" Any note of the fact that Orton isn't exactly a brilliant QB is met with accusations of "pouting".

There are correlations, of course. Like how suddenly Orton can win games and have his terrible QB-ratings excused while Cutler simply lost games regardless of context. Or that Cutler was a drunk for being seen with a beer in hand, but Orton is a grizzly warrior carrying around a handle of 40 in a slew of photo albums.

But why would you even want Cutler? What kind of guy demands to be traded like that because he got his feewings hurt because the team entertained the thought of "upgrading" the position. Maybe he thinks he's in the same league as Brady & Manning. He aint and he should recognize. The owner of the team can do whatever he wants. Little bitch threw a hissy fit so he could show he was mad and get himself a big contract. The Broncos should have buried him on the Lions or Rams and see how she likes it. Is that the guy you want behind center on your team? I'd rather let him go than see him qb my team.

[getlynched47]

The Broncos defense will be hands-down better than the last two seasons I guarantee. Maybe a middle-of-the-pack improvement, but that is still a dramatic step in the right direction and maybe they can pull out a stop on 2nd and 22 that they couldn't before.

It's pretty sad when you hope your defense can be a 15th or so ranked defense. Shows just how awful the unit has been.

You'd be surprised what a new staff and environment can do for a QB. Look at Chad Pennington. Everybody left him for dead, and the guy has an arm of a secretary. How'd he pan out for 1-15 Miami?

:lol:

Great points, but I dont think it's realistic to expect a middle of the pack defense, especially with how McDaniels has almost entirely ignored the Defensive Line and has us with a secondary where all 4 starters are over 30 years old.

I hope we get to lower 20's and then the following year jump into the lower 10's.......but it would be awesome if we make it to middle of the pack this year :salute:

[getlynched47]

This is true. It's why so much hinges on the draft. Actually, the Broncos, as a team, rushed for 200 more yards than the Bears did last year, believe it or not. Yes, so of that is because teams were more geared to stop the pass against us, but it still makes you raise an eyebrow. I never would have thought that until I saw the stats.

We never had a consistent rushing threat (except for Peyton Hillis), so the defenses we faced never threw an extra safety in the box.

This draft is the biggest event in McDaniels life. If he scores with his picks, he looks like the biggest genius ever. If he fails with our 5 picks in the top 85, he's toast.

[Shazam!]

Great points, but I dont think it's realistic to expect a middle of the pack defense, especially with how McDaniels has almost entirely ignored the Defensive Line and has us with a secondary where all 4 starters are over 30 years old.

He is not upper-tier, but Ron Fields is the first typical NT in Denver since Ted washington in the 90's will help a makeshift 3-4.

Dawkins provides a much neeeded identity and fills a void in leadership.

Nolan alone will make the defense better, better adjustments and less cushion on WRs is invaluable.

They'll be Drafting mostly defense and a QB.

Whatever it's ranked, I believe the Broncos defense will be twice as good as the last two years. That's NOT SAYING MUCH, but it will be better. Bank on it.

[getlynched47]

He is not upper-tier, but Ron Fields is the first typical NT in Denver since Ted washington in the 90's will help a makeshift 3-4.

Dawkins provides a much neeeded identity and fills a void in leadership.

Nolan alone will make the defense better, better adjustments and less cushion on WRs is invaluable.

They'll be Drafting mostly defense and a QB.

Whatever it's ranked, I believe the Broncos defense will be twice as good as the last two years. That's NOT SAYING MUCH, but it will be better. Bank on it.

I definatly agree that our defense will be improved, but this only happens if we do good in the draft with key role-players.

[de_real_deal]

I wouldnt go that far...

We still don't know how he will do without a defense capable of creating turnovers or a runningback that can make the opposing defense throw a safety in the box.

For the record, the Broncos had:

387 carries, 1862 yards, 4.8 yards per attempt 15td's

Bears had

434 carries, 1673 yards, 3.9 yards per attempt 15 td's

I'm not very smart but in my opinion, the Broncos running game was much better than the Bears. It certainly was NOT worse than CHI.

As far as the defense goes, this will just give Orton the opportunity to chuck it down the field all game long and pad his stats..........like Cutler did last year. :D

[getlynched47]

For the record, the Broncos had:

387 carries, 1862 yards, 4.8 yards per attempt 15td's

Bears had

434 carries, 1673 yards, 3.9 yards per attempt 15 td's

I'm not very smart but in my opinion, the Broncos running game was much better than the Bears. It certainly was NOT worse than CHI.

As far as the defense goes, this will just give Orton the opportunity to chuck it down the field all game long and pad his stats..........like Cutler did last year. :D

I KNOW that. You're missing the point.

When a defense saw Matt Forte, they would throw the extra safety in the box to be safe.

The Broncos never had a threatening presence at Runningback that would force a defense to throw a safety in the box.

Safety in the box = one less defender in pass coverage, making it easier for the QB. Orton won't have that in Denver, at least not right now

[Shazam!]

Stats are deceiving. The Broncos had less carries, more yards, yet the same TDs.

[Dreadnought]

I KNOW that. You're missing the point.

When a defense saw Matt Forte, they would throw the extra safety in the box to be safe.

The Broncos never had a threatening presence at Runningback that would force a defense to throw a safety in the box.

Safety in the box = one less defender in pass coverage, making it easier for the QB. Orton won't have that in Denver, at least not right now

Agreed - he has faced 8 in the box his entire career. If he was even close to a competent QB he would have racked it up. Cutler+Forte = NFC Central titla IMO

[NameUsedBefore]

But why would you even want Cutler? What kind of guy demands to be traded like that because he got his feewings hurt because the team entertained the thought of "upgrading" the position. Maybe he thinks he's in the same league as Brady & Manning. He aint and he should recognize. The owner of the team can do whatever he wants. Little bitch threw a hissy fit so he could show he was mad and get himself a big contract. The Broncos should have buried him on the Lions or Rams and see how she likes it. Is that the guy you want behind center on your team? I'd rather let him go than see him qb my team.

Because when it comes to professional sports I don't expect any better, nevermind with premier players, nevermind with QBs who are all susceptible to throwing hissy fits.

I believe 100% that if it were anyone but McDaniels then Cutler would still be here. He failed to bridge the gap, regardless of Cutler's attitude. For some reason those two did not get along and it takes two to tango; but only one of them has the job to keep players on the squad.

Now, I've watched Cutler work hard in the offseasons of past, showing up early, working with his receivers, etc. He played in Vanderbilt and played through multiple offensive schemes without complaint. He was the only QB to show up pre-draft to strut his stuff outdoors when the weather was poor. I don't consider Cutler to be the kind of guy to fly of the handle for no reason.

For whatever reason, McDaniels managed to lose his QB practically instantly. And I don't think it was preempted. Cutler seemed by his own words ready to work in McDaniels system, if not quite excited to do so. That is until, as we all know, McDaniels started his stuff. Then it all went downhill and a lot of it behind doors with bits of public words spoken usually contradicting previous announcements (McDaniels flip-flopping, Bowlen's suddenly missing memory, and Cutler's demanding a trade to saying he didn't want to be traded).

I think taking any side is pretty dumb, but I will defer to this: Franchise QBs are stupidly hard to find. You don't trade them, period. We traded them. Thus, it is a stupid move, regardless of ordinary context. (Meaning, the guy didn't like punch a Denver citizen's baby or go on a nude run through downtown.)

I see the draft picks as red herrings to the reality that we don't have a QB anymore. They look great now, but they wont be if five years from now we're still stumbling through the NFL's scraps looking for someone to lead the pack, possibly -- once again -- wasting away a defense or running game in its prime.

[Tned]

Agreed - he has faced 8 in the box his entire career. If he was even close to a competent QB he would have racked it up. Cutler+Forte = NFC Central titla IMO

Yep, I agree. NFC Central title and a deep run into the playoffs. Good thing we will be there with www.BearsForums.com.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

BearsForums? GROSS.

[Tned]

BearsForums? GROSS.

No, the colors will be almost the same, the QB will be the same, and we now have an upgrade at RB with Forte. BearsForums (http://www.bearsforums.com) (formerly known as BroncosForums) is going to be great.

[Timmy!]

No, the colors will be almost the same, the QB will be the same, and we now have an upgrade at RB with Forte. BearsForums (http://www.bearsforums.com) (formerly known as BroncosForums) is going to be great.

Too bad that team with the upgraded RB rushed for 200 yards and 1 ypc less than the old forum team. :coffee:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

We don't need Matt "Fat" Forte. We will be drafting LeSean McCoy here in Denver and you are going to like it.

[Tned]

We don't need Matt "Fat" Forte. We will be drafting LeSean McCoy here in Denver and you are going to like it.

We won't be covering the Broncos draft on the all new BearsForums (http://WWW.bearsforums.com).

[slim]

We won't be covering the Broncos draft on the all new BearsForums (http://WWW.bearsforums.com).

Are you going to be covering the Bears draft?

Because I don't think they have any picks left?

[Tned]

Are you going to be covering the Bears draft?

Because I don't think they have any picks left?

Thats the beauty of it. There will be more time available to change the forum colors, graphics and such, since there won't be a lot of time wasted on talking about our Bears picks.

I'm putting my Miles head cover and Broncos golf bag on Ebay, preparing for the team affiliation change.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

They actually had extra picks this year. The Bears are still in good shape, just without a first rounder. BearsForums sounds lame.

[slim]

Thats the beauty of it. There will be more time available to change the forum colors, graphics and such, since there won't be a lot of time wasted on talking about our Bears picks.

I'm putting my Miles head cover and Broncos golf bag on Ebay, preparing for the team affiliation change.

Will you still root for Peyton Hillis?

[Tned]

Will you still root for Peyton Hillis?

He can't be my adopted Bear, but since he is a Conway boy, I will follow his career now and then.

[Elevation inc]

We don't need Matt "Fat" Forte. We will be drafting LeSean McCoy here in Denver and you are going to like it.

i hope not, donald brown at 18....lol

[elsid13]

Are you going to be covering the Bears draft?

Because I don't think they have any picks left?

Last time I looked they had extra 5th.

[TXBRONC]

I watched the Bears some in the year he won 10 (was a rookie or second year, I think) and he didn't look good at all. I'm going to get that NFL rewind thing and watch his games from last year to get a better feel for him.

I'm also not ready to completely give up on Simms. I thought he played decent in some of his Tampa games. He also clearly showed toughness playing with a ruptured spleen. We signed him to a two year, six million dollar contract, which I thought was an early indication that Cutler might not be around. That's a pretty hefty contract for a backup QB.

As far as I know Orton hasn't been handed the startting job. IIRC in the radio interview that Carol posted for us McDaniels said that they would compete for the job. Since Simms and Orton are what we have to work with at this time I would rather see Simms win the job.

[TXBRONC]

I'd go with Simms easy over Orton if it weren't for Simms injury. It's unfortunate to say, but Simms' injury really was/is serious stuff.

If youi're talking about Simms' ruptured spleen that was what two or three years ago.

[Dreadnought]

As far as I know Orton hasn't been handed the startting job. IIRC in the radio interview that Carol posted for us McDaniels said that they would compete for the job. Since Simms and Orton are what we have to work with at this time I would rather see Simms win the job.

I agree. I hope Simms wins too. If its not Simms then Denver Native (Carol) might be a better option than Kyle Orton. Carol, are you in game shape?

[de_real_deal]

I KNOW that. You're missing the point.

When a defense saw Matt Forte, they would throw the extra safety in the box to be safe.

The Broncos never had a threatening presence at Runningback that would force a defense to throw a safety in the box.

Safety in the box = one less defender in pass coverage, making it easier for the QB. Orton won't have that in Denver, at least not right now

Bears starting receivers:
Devin Hester: 51 catches, 665 yards ,3 td's
Rachied Davis: 35 catches, 445 yards ,2 td's

Broncos starting receivers:
Marshall: 104 catches, 1265 yards, 6 td's
Royal: 91 catches, 980 yards, 5 td's

The tight end play was even and the Broncos had Stokely as well.

The "extra safety" as you claim was present can be explained by the weapons the defense didn't have to account for when playing the Bears.


Your explanation shows all emotion and no rational thought or research. Mine does not. And i'm not trying to be rude, just stating the facts. I cant really get through to someone who is willing to completely look over the Marshall/Royal vs Davis/Hester(1st years starting receiver) situation. Good luck to your team.

[claymore]

Simms is a scrub. He hasnt even really played since 2005. I would be shocked if He beat out Orton. I see us drafting in the latter rounds for a groom able QB, and releasing Simms by next year.

To be honest Orton had a similar year as Cutler, with Less weapons and a shit Offensive line.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t34/cemoowxx/NewMicrosoftPowerPointPresentati-1.jpg

[de_real_deal]

Franchise QBs are stupidly hard to find. You don't trade them, period. We traded them.

Franchise QB? Just because he's the best qb in town since elway and he has a rocket for an arm DOES NOT mean he's a franchise qb. 15 guys had a better qb rating than Cutler. 2 guys had more yards and only Brees had more attempts to get those yards. 6 guys had more TD's. ONLY Brett Favre had more interceptions and Favre was on a new team in about the most unfavorable conditions in the NFL. Tied for 14th in completion %. 9th in yards per attempt.

IMO, there are 2 players in this league who are un-tradeable. Manning & Brady. Everyone else is fooling themselves if they think they are not expendable for the right price or if a better option is available. If Joe Montana, Brett Favre & Jerry Rice can be dumped then a crybaby who lost his last 3 games to miss the playoffs who has mediocre performance is expendable too.

[claymore]

Franchise QB? Just because he's the best qb in town since elway and he has a rocket for an arm DOES NOT mean he's a franchise qb. 15 guys had a better qb rating than Cutler. 2 guys had more yards and only Brees had more attempts to get those yards. 6 guys had more TD's. ONLY Brett Favre had more interceptions and Favre was on a new team in about the most unfavorable conditions in the NFL. Tied for 14th in completion %. 9th in yards per attempt.

IMO, there are 2 players in this league who are un-tradeable. Manning & Brady. Everyone else is fooling themselves if they think they are not expendable for the right price or if a better option is available. If Joe Montana, Brett Favre & Jerry Rice can be dumped then a crybaby who lost his last 3 games to miss the playoffs who has mediocre performance is expendable too.
How do you feel about the trade? You are a Bears fan correct?

[de_real_deal]

Too bad that team with the upgraded RB rushed for 200 yards and 1 ypc less than the old forum team. :coffee:

Dont confuse people with facts. Keep your head down and swing that pitch fork like a good robot.

[Dean]

Meanwhile back on topic. . .

The best analysis of Orton that I have seen was by MJA on Broncos Country message board. Here is his post interpret it how you choose.


DenverBroncos.comBroncosCountry.com


#1 04-03-2009, 05:43 PM
MJA

Practice Squad Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 91


My Evaluation of Kyle Orton
Introduction
Since everyone seems to have an opinion about the Broncos new possible starting quarterback, Kyle Orton, I decided to take an in-depth look at his stats from last year when he started for the Chicago Bears. Hopefully this will give us a better idea of what to expect for Orton.
Basic Stats
Looking at his most basic stats for 2008 and you get the impression that Kyle Orton is a very pedestrian QB. He had a 58.8% completion rating, which was ranked 25th in the league. He also had 12 interceptions, tied for 11th most in the league. He finished the season with 2,972 yards, ranked only 19th in the league; even though he was ranked 15th in pass attempts per game with 31. Couple that with a 79.6 QB Rating that was 25th in the league and no one is mistaking Kyle Orton for a top tier QB. One positive was his 18 touchdown passes, which was 13th best in the league.

Oy, not very good news for bronco fans on that run through. Let’s see if Orton’s situation stats can shed some light on his abilities as a QB.

Pass Attempts
On attempts 1-10 Kyle Orton is an absolute machine. He has a 65.3% completion percentage, 7TD’s versus 1INT, 34.7% first down percentage, and a 99.8 QB Rating. Sadly once he steps up to throw pass attempt number 11-20, things go down hill fast. Now Orton has a 57.6% completion percentage, a 1:1 TD to INT ratio, 27.8% first down percentage, and a 72.7 QB rating. Attempts 21-30 show completion percentage (52.21%), TD to INT ratio (3:4), and QB Rating (60.2) once again plummet further. Only his first down percentage goes up .3 points (28.1%). After 31+ attempts (Orton only had 50 of them) Orton improves to a 86.0 QB Rating and most of his stats also see an increase.
My take? It seems to me that Orton comes into the game fresh and ready to go, but somehow loses steam as the game progresses. Also it could be due to the fact that the Chicago Bears had a very bad running game last year, they only ranked 24th in the league in yards per game (104.6 yards/game).

Field Position
Be happy Broncos fans! With Kyle Orton your red-zone woes will disappear! Orton has a 96.0 QB Rating, 13 TD’s, and 1 INT. On the OPP 49-20 Yard line though Orton struggles mightily, having a 68.2 QB Rating and 6 INT’s. Strangely, he has a 60.2 completion percentage. He rebounds a bit on his own 1-19 yard line, with a 77.9 QB Rating, but only a 20.5% first down rating. Finally on his own 21-50 yard line, he has a 1:2 TD to INT ratio, a 73.9 QB Rating, 30.0 first down percentage, and a 58.1 completion percentage.
Looking at this info, it’s great to see that Orton takes good care of the ball down near the red-zone. If he could just only improve his play between his own 20 and his opponents 20. In my opinion the solid Denver run game (ranked 12th in the league) will help Orton out a lot in that area since the defenses will now have to respect the run game behind Orton, allowing him to have to face fewer defenders down field.

1st Half/2nd Half
This was by far the most shocking stat of Kyle Orton’s situational stats. In the 1st half of games Orton is one of the best QB’s in the league. He has a 62.0% completion rating, 11TD’s to 3 INT’s, a 32.1% first down percentage, and a 92.2 QB Rating. Then after halftime it’s like a new Kyle Orton runs on to the field, a less accurate sucky version. He drops to a 55.0% completion rating, 7TD’s to 9INT’s, a 27.9% first down percentage, and a 66.1 QB Rating. The last two minutes of each half though is where Orton once again becomes great. 60.7 completion rating, 4TD’s and 0INT’s, a 30.4% first down percentage, and a staggering 101.8 QB Rating.

The more I see stats showing Orton’s play descend the longer he plays, the more it leads me to believe that it’s because of his run game. After the 1st half, his opponents go back to the locker room and realize that Chicago has no run game and decide to let Orton beat them, which he can’t. That’s because Orton is not a prodigal talent, like a Manning or a Brady.

Breakdown By Quarters
As we see again, Kyle Orton is a monster early in the game. In the 1st Quarter he has a 70.5% completion rating (!!!!), 6TD’s and 0 INT’s, a 38.9% first down percentage, and a 116.1 QB Rating. Kyle Orton might be the best 1st quarter quarterback in the league. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarter? Back to mediocrity! In those 3 quarters his completion percentage average is 55.37%, 12 TD’s to 12 INT’s, 27.73% first down percentage average, and a 69.5 QB Rating.

Conclusion
Going into this assessment I had no idea what to expect of Kyle Orton, but his stats are just mind boggling bizarre. When he plays In the 1st Quarter/1st Half, the guys is one of the best QB’s in the league; after he becomes one of the worst. Like I have stated a couple of times throughout this piece, I believe that a part of Orton’s struggles later in the game is the lack of a running game for him to fall back on. You can’t expect Orton to single handily lead your team down the field by himself, but pair him up with a good run game (Denver was ranked 12th in rushing), talented receivers (Marshall, Royal,), and Orton should be able to succeed as a Denver Bronco. Whether the defense will improve enough to let that happen is another question.

I’d also love to hear your guys thoughts on why Orton is so good early on and mediocre the rest of the way, because I’m not 100% confident that it’s solely the run game.


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[de_real_deal]

How do you feel about the trade? You are a Bears fan correct?

I think the Broncos made out like bandits so long as they draft well. Im a Packer fan.

[Tempus Fugit]

...IMO, there are 2 players in this league who are un-tradeable. Manning & Brady. Everyone else is fooling themselves if they think they are not expendable for the right price or if a better option is available. If Joe Montana, Brett Favre & Jerry Rice can be dumped then a crybaby who lost his last 3 games to miss the playoffs who has mediocre performance is expendable too.

If players and fans would grasp this, idiocies like the Cutler melodrama could be avoided.

[Tned]

Simms is a scrub. He hasnt even really played since 2005. I would be shocked if He beat out Orton. I see us drafting in the latter rounds for a groom able QB, and releasing Simms by next year.

To be honest Orton had a similar year as Cutler, with Less weapons and a shit Offensive line.


On the flip side, McDaniels saw enough in Simms to sign him to a 2 year, $6 million contract, which is pretty hefty for a backup. Especially one that basically hadn't played in two years. It always looked to me like with that size contract, McDaniels saw Simms as the starter once he drove Cutler out of town, if he didn't get a QB in return.

[claymore]

On the flip side, McDaniels saw enough in Simms to sign him to a 2 year, $6 million contract, which is pretty hefty for a backup. Especially one that basically hadn't played in two years. It always looked to me like with that size contract, McDaniels saw Simms as the starter once he drove Cutler out of town, if he didn't get a QB in return.

If he turns Simms into a good to great starter, Im getting a McDaniels tattoo on my butt.

[Dean]

Promise. . . no pictures.:lol:

[Shazam!]

Denver turned the prince of mediocrity Jake Plummer into a decent Starter. Have no fear.

[Tned]

Denver turned the prince of mediocrity Jake Plummer into a decent Starter. Have no fear.

Yea, but that Denver is no more. They are gone.

[topscribe]

Meanwhile back on topic. . .

The best analysis of Orton that I have seen was by MJA on Broncos Country message board. Here is his post interpret it how you choose.

He did a pretty good job, but he forgot to mention that Orton was a second-
year quarterback on the field. Ever since a horde of fans wanted to run Elway
out of town during his first two or three years in the league, fans have
expected quarterbacks in their first two or three years to play like another
Johnny Unitas (who also didn't do so hot his first couple years, BTW). Yes,
and it happened to Cutler, too, as we all should know.

Main thing is, as I mentioned in a couple other places, I spent the better part
of an afternoon studying film on Orton. I was impressed by his arm strength
and accuracy in short to medium range passes, his ability to look off defenders,
and his pocket presence. I think he's better than a lot of people here realize.

-----

[Tned]

He did a pretty good job, but he forgot to mention that Orton was a second-
year quarterback on the field. Ever since a horde of fans wanted to run Elway
out of town during his first two or three years in the league, fans have
expected quarterbacks in their first two or three years to play like another
Johnny Unitas (who also didn't do so hot his first couple years, BTW). Yes,
and it happened to Cutler, too, as we all should know.

Main thing is, as I mentioned in a couple other places, I spent the better part
of an afternoon studying film on Orton. I was impressed by his arm strength
and accuracy in short to medium range passes, his ability to look off defenders,
and his pocket presence. I think he's better than a lot of people here realize.

-----


But, not so good that the Bears made Cutler only the fourth player ever to be traded for two first round picks (not to mention them including Orton).

[Broncos Mtnman]

Denver turned the prince of mediocrity Jake Plummer into a decent Starter. Have no fear.

The person responsible for that is now the HC in Houston.

:coffee:

[Tned]

The person responsible for that is now the HC in Houston.

:coffee:

One of the people is a HC in Houston, the other is collecting $7 million a year to do nothing.

[topscribe]

But, not so good that the Bears made Cutler only the fourth player ever to be traded for two first round picks (not to mention them including Orton).

Jerry Angelo made the trade. He's the guy with the money, not the football
knowledge. That guy is down on the field in the form of Lovie Smith. Lovie
really likes Orton. He is the first one I listen to, not the one who got suckered
into giving away the draft for Cutler.

I'm just going by what I saw on the field. I saw a strong arm, good accuracy
in short to medium (needs work deep), ability to look off defenders, good
pocket presence, and a will to win.

When I look at Orton's stats, I note that he played only two years actually
on the field.

I personally believe, as a long-time Cutler supporter, that Denver made out
like bandits on this trade since it became obvious that Cutler had to go. Orton
does not have quite the physical skills Cutler does, true . . . but neither does
Tom Brady. Orton has it all together between the ears, far as I can see.
That's spells W-I-N to me.

NOTE: I'm not grooming Orton for the HOF. I'm only saying that we should at
least adopt a wait-and-see approach and give him the benefit of the doubt
before we relegate him forever to the bench.

-----

[Nature Boy]

Orton is good. Better than Rex Grossman, way better. Bears are stupid they went with Grossman over Orton all that time.

.

[atwater27]

Denver turned the prince of mediocrity Jake Plummer into a decent Starter. Have no fear.

Denver didn't do shit. Mike Shanahan did. And Shanahan also had the blueprint for Cutler, and his progression every season as a better QB. McDaniels, not so much.

[MOtorboat]

McDaniels, not so much.

I'd like to know how you know this.

Because he was traded? Is that your assumption?

[atwater27]

I'd like to know how you know this.

Because he was traded? Is that your assumption?

McD pissed in his cornflakes. Apparently Cutler prefers milk in his. I don't blame him for having a thing called personal pride.

[MOtorboat]

McD pissed in his cornflakes. Apparently Cutler prefers milk in his. I don't blame him for having a thing called personal pride.

I get that.

But you said Cutler would progress only under Shanahan, or at least that's what you implied, I was simply asking how you knew that.

And...if that were the case, then he certainly won't progress under Lovie Smith, and it was best that we traded him in the first place, no?

[G_Money]

I am not an Orton believer. However - what McDaniels is probably looking at is getting a young, smart pocket-passer that he can groom into the Brady type of player: mentally tough, dissects a defense, can tear up a team if given time...

Kinda like Drew Brees.

Does anybody remember why the Chargers drafted Rivers?

2002 320-526, 3,284 yards, 60.8 completion %, 17 TD/16 INT, 76.9 QB rating
2003 205-356, 2,108 yards, 57.6 completion %, 11 TD/15 INT, 67.5 QB rating

In 2004 he had a QB rating over 100 and began his tear of cutting up defenses like a surgeon.

Orton's in the same time-frame as far as games played and footage watched.

505-913, 5,319 yards, 55.3 completion %, 30 TDs/27 INTs, 71.1 rating

If McD feels like he's on the verge of clicking, then we just traded our version of Rivers for the Bears' version of Brees.

I could deal with that. I don't think that's how this is going to play out, but I would definitely be happy if McDaniels can bring out Orton's inner Brees.

This is one of those times when I want to be wrong.

~G

[topscribe]

I am not an Orton believer. However - what McDaniels is probably looking at is getting a young, smart pocket-passer that he can groom into the Brady type of player: mentally tough, dissects a defense, can tear up a team if given time...

Kinda like Drew Brees.

Does anybody remember why the Chargers drafted Rivers?

2002 320-526, 3,284 yards, 60.8 completion %, 17 TD/16 INT, 76.9 QB rating
2003 205-356, 2,108 yards, 57.6 completion %, 11 TD/15 INT, 67.5 QB rating

In 2004 he had a QB rating over 100 and began his tear of cutting up defenses like a surgeon.

Orton's in the same time-frame as far as games played and footage watched.

505-913, 5,319 yards, 55.3 completion %, 30 TDs/27 INTs, 71.1 rating

If McD feels like he's on the verge of clicking, then we just traded our version of Rivers for the Bears' version of Brees.

I could deal with that. I don't think that's how this is going to play out, but I would definitely be happy if McDaniels can bring out Orton's inner Brees.

This is one of those times when I want to be wrong.

~G

I hope you're right, too.

I'd rather have Brees than Rivers . . . :coffee:

-----

[Broncospsycho77]

BTW, I really, really enjoy the thread title.

Reminds me of Anchorman: "I'm Ron Burgundy?"

Nothing says confidence in our QB like a question mark in the thread defending him.

[Shazam!]

The person responsible for that is now the HC in Houston.

McD is smiliar to the reputation Shanahan had when he was with SF. While their philosophies are both different, McD knows what's up, he knows offenses and QBs. We won't know until Denver takes the field, but I have reason to be optimistic.

[Never Trust a Snake]

McD is smiliar to the reputation Shanahan had when he was with SF. While their philosophies are both different, McD knows what's up, he knows offenses and QBs. We won't know until Denver takes the field, but I have reason to be optimistic.

I give McDaniels his due for X's and O's, but he gets a D or F thus far for his ability to handle players. For a head coach, dealing with players is a far more important aspect than X's and O's. Coordinators can always handle the burden of X's and O's, that's what they are there for.

[bcbronc]

For the record, the Broncos had:

387 carries, 1862 yards, 4.8 yards per attempt 15td's

Bears had

434 carries, 1673 yards, 3.9 yards per attempt 15 td's

I'm not very smart but in my opinion, the Broncos running game was much better than the Bears. It certainly was NOT worse than CHI.

As far as the defense goes, this will just give Orton the opportunity to chuck it down the field all game long and pad his stats..........like Cutler did last year. :D

and even with the inferior running game, Orton's Bears put up more points on the season than Cutler's Broncos did (by 5).

so fewer weapons, inferior o-line, less effective rushing attack, and still more points. must have been the defense.

[bcbronc]

I give McDaniels his due for X's and O's, but he gets a D or F thus far for his ability to handle players. For a head coach, dealing with players is a far more important aspect than X's and O's. Coordinators can always handle the burden of X's and O's, that's what they are there for.

I don't know, every interview from a Bronco player has had them saying good things about McDaniels. guys like Royal, Marshall, Gaffney, and Dawkins having said good things about McDaniels energy and presence. and it goes without saying that Lonnie had his pick of 32 franchises to sign with, yet he choose to sign with McDaniels.

on the other hand, the only player I can think of that has had any differences with McDaniels is the QB of the Bears. I don't care what the QB of the Bears thinks of our head coach, any more than I care what the QB of Seattle, or San Diego, or Cincinatti thinks of him.

[TXBRONC]

Yea, but that Denver is no more. They are gone.

I just thinking the same thing that was with veteran coach with good team around him.

[Never Trust a Snake]

I don't know, every interview from a Bronco player has had them saying good things about McDaniels. guys like Royal, Marshall, Gaffney, and Dawkins having said good things about McDaniels energy and presence.

Gaffney is a former Patriots player. Of course, he is going to say glowing things about his old offensive coordinator. Dawkins has always been a PR guy dating back to his days in Philadelphia. Why would he come in here and say anything negative about the organization after they paid him a handsome sum?

What about players such as Stokley and Scheffler that have questioned the direction of the organization?


and it goes without saying that Lonnie had his pick of 32 franchises to sign with, yet he choose to sign with McDaniels.

Who is Lonnie? Please don't tell me you are referring to Lonnie Paxton!


on the other hand, the only player I can think of that has had any differences with McDaniels is the QB of the Bears. I don't care what the QB of the Bears thinks of our head coach, any more than I care what the QB of Seattle, or San Diego, or Cincinatti thinks of him.

Over the last three years, that Bears QB had a pretty flawless track record dealing with Shanahan, the coaching staff and his teammates. McDaniels comes in and everything boils over.

Don't care that our head coach's incompetence setback the franchise for at least another two-to-three years. The Broncos will be lucky if they land another QB like Cutler in the next 20 years.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Uh oh, we have another one of those, "We've been set back years!" posters. Disagree, but welcome Never Trust A Snake!

[TXBRONC]

I agree. I hope Simms wins too. If its not Simms then Denver Native (Carol) might be a better option than Kyle Orton. Carol, are you in game shape?

I've heard she needs to work throwing the deep ball with accuracy. :D

[Never Trust a Snake]

Uh oh, we have another one of those, "We've been set back years!" posters. Disagree, but welcome Never Trust A Snake!

Thanks for the hospitality by welcoming me here.

With Cutler, I felt the Broncos had the upside to be as productive as the 1996-98 units. They were a team I envisioned averaging 25-to-30 points a game in the near future. This Broncos team had a chance to duplicate the Indianapolis model when Tony Dungy got there.

Orton is a capable QB, but there's more of a finite return with him. He's most likely a short-term guy. And there's no guarantee with the draft picks.

I just feel the odds are not in Denver's favor here.

And I felt they jumped the gun with Cutler. They acted too soon by dealing him. He hadn't missed a manatory team function. He wasn't in violation of his contract. They made more of the situation than it warranted. They handled the situation poorly from the beginning.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I don't know, every interview from a Bronco player has had them saying good things about McDaniels. guys like Royal, Marshall, Gaffney, and Dawkins having said good things about McDaniels energy and presence. and it goes without saying that Lonnie had his pick of 32 franchises to sign with, yet he choose to sign with McDaniels.

Well, let's take a look at this. The most inexperienced head coach in team history just got rid of the most talented player on offense. Doesn't really create an environment where players can be free to express themselves, does it?

As far as Lonnie goes, I would bet that if this crap was going on when he was signed, he would be playing on one of the remaining 31 teams.

Back on topic.....

Orton is as bad as we think.

[MOtorboat]

Well, let's take a look at this. The most inexperienced head coach in team history just got rid of the most talented player on offense. Doesn't really create an environment where players can be free to express themselves, does it?

Do you have any proof for this statement?

Brandon Marshall has publicly taken a shot at The Child.

Others have supported the front office.

Most are committed to this organization.

I get that you aren't, so se la vie...you know what I mean?

[Ravage!!!]

I personally don't care if he's as "bad as we thought."

The point is, Orton doesn't make ANYONE excited. He's not the guy that puts butts in the seats or sells out the jersey's. He's not the player that makes opposing teams say "damn"...or makes division rivals say "I hate him because he's so good." Orton is just... Orton. He's a body.

Cutler kept us on the edge of our seats and put people in the stands. Cutler gave us HOPE for the future. Cutler put a FACE and Name to the franchise that would make us PROUD to wear.

Now... Who here will really buy an Orton jersey? No one unless you just have Toooooo much money to throw away.

Does he have a strong 'enough' arm... probably. Do you need a STRONG arm to succeed in the NFL..no. But what attribute does Orton have that makes anyone say "YAY, we have ORTON!!!" (I swear, if someone says "a winning record" I'll puke).

Cutler showed us and the rest of the NFL that we were always a dangerous team on Offense.. a team on the rise because we DID have a franchise QB at our helm. There has been 6 QBs since 1967 that have WON the Super Bowl without despite not being a 'franchise' QB. How LIKELY are we really to go to the big dance with Orton behind center?

(2003 Johnson, 2001 Dilfer, 1992 Rypien, 1988 Williams, 1986 McMahon, 1984 & 1981 Plunkett)

[honz]

Enough with the "McDaniels ran Cutler out of town" comments. Sure, McDaniels probably could have handled the situation better, but Cutler was looking for way out of town. Dude got rid of himself.

[Never Trust a Snake]

Enough with the "McDaniels ran Cutler out of town" comments. Sure, McDaniels probably could have handled the situation better, but Cutler was looking for way out of town. Dude got rid of himself.

How so? Cutler never missed a manatory team function. He had honored his contractual obligations. The Broncos didn't have anything on him.

[honz]

I personally don't care if he's as "bad as we thought."

The point is, Orton doesn't make ANYONE excited. He's not the guy that puts butts in the seats or sells out the jersey's. He's not the player that makes opposing teams say "damn"...or makes division rivals say "I hate him because he's so good." Orton is just... Orton. He's a body.

Cutler kept us on the edge of our seats and put people in the stands. Cutler gave us HOPE for the future. Cutler put a FACE and Name to the franchise that would make us PROUD to wear.

Now... Who here will really buy an Orton jersey? No one unless you just have Toooooo much money to throw away.

Does he have a strong 'enough' arm... probably. Do you need a STRONG arm to succeed in the NFL..no. But what attribute does Orton have that makes anyone say "YAY, we have ORTON!!!" (I swear, if someone says "a winning record" I'll puke).

Cutler showed us and the rest of the NFL that we were always a dangerous team on Offense.. a team on the rise because we DID have a franchise QB at our helm. There has been 6 QBs since 1967 that have WON the Super Bowl without despite not being a 'franchise' QB. How LIKELY are we really to go to the big dance with Orton behind center?

(2003 Johnson, 2001 Dilfer, 1992 Rypien, 1988 Williams, 1986 McMahon, 1984 & 1981 Plunkett)
I'll buy an Orton jersey if he takes us to the playoffs.

Also, I think you are being a bit generous handing out the "franchise QB" tag. Is Eli Manning a franchise QB? Kurt Warner? Big Ben? Maybe, but I wouldn't classify any of those guys as such. Besides, if Orton doesn't play really well for us he's not going to be our QB of the future...we will either draft one next year or make another trade.

[MasterShake]

I personally don't care if he's as "bad as we thought."

The point is, Orton doesn't make ANYONE excited. He's not the guy that puts butts in the seats or sells out the jersey's. He's not the player that makes opposing teams say "damn"...or makes division rivals say "I hate him because he's so good." Orton is just... Orton. He's a body.

Cutler kept us on the edge of our seats and put people in the stands. Cutler gave us HOPE for the future. Cutler put a FACE and Name to the franchise that would make us PROUD to wear.

Now... Who here will really buy an Orton jersey? No one unless you just have Toooooo much money to throw away.

Does he have a strong 'enough' arm... probably. Do you need a STRONG arm to succeed in the NFL..no. But what attribute does Orton have that makes anyone say "YAY, we have ORTON!!!" (I swear, if someone says "a winning record" I'll puke).

Cutler showed us and the rest of the NFL that we were always a dangerous team on Offense.. a team on the rise because we DID have a franchise QB at our helm. There has been 6 QBs since 1967 that have WON the Super Bowl without despite not being a 'franchise' QB. How LIKELY are we really to go to the big dance with Orton behind center?

(2003 Johnson, 2001 Dilfer, 1992 Rypien, 1988 Williams, 1986 McMahon, 1984 & 1981 Plunkett)

I like(d) Cutler as much as anyone, but a certain Philip Rivers seemed to rattle him pretty easily. It will be interesting to see if he develops any rivalries like that in the North.

[honz]

How so? Cutler never missed a manatory team function. He had honored his contractual obligations. The Broncos didn't have anything on him.
You really think not trading a player that won't answer phone calls from his teammates, coaches, or owner is a viable option? Not to mention he demanded a trade...personally, I don't want a QB leading my team if he doesn't really want to "play for his teammates".

[Never Trust a Snake]

Caligula

That might be the best post I have read about Cutler since he was dealt.

I feel the same way. This Broncos offense had a chance to be one of the best in NFL history. Second youngest NFL unit put up the second most yards last year. There was so much room for growth.

Entertainment value, I would have no problem paying for my season tickets through the next decade. They gave us our money's worth.

[Ravage!!!]

McDaniels and Bowlen BOTH told Cutler that he was THEIR guy. Bowlen said that Cutler was their franchise QB. McDaniels talked with Cutler and told him how excited he was to work with him and how excited he was to build this team with Cutler.

Then they tried to trade Cutler away behind his back.. blindsided. EVEN Shannon Sharpe said that he NEVER trusted Shanahan again after Mike tried to trade him away behind his back.

So Cutler then sees McDaniels LYING to the media and fans by saying "he only answer the phone" (ANYONE that buys that is absolutely a fool).. and makes it out to be CUTLER that is the paranoid one. McDaniels is telling the lies while Bowlen is sitting back and letting it happen, NOTHING is being said. McDaniels the day of the trade, even hides from the press when it first comes out with his "not talkign about that right now" when confronted with his plan gone public.

Move forward to the interview on TV. McDaniels is trying to sound all "i'm trying" with his "Cutler is our QB"... but when asked if Cutler was their QB of the future, he smiles and says "no one can predict the future." BRILLIANT! Brilliant.

"Sure Cutler is our QB today." thats just what ANY player or employee wants to hear.

Why would we expect Cutler to trust McDaniels anymore than Sharpe trusted Shanahan? Sharpe moved on to Baltimore.

Now Cutler is the baby for asking/demanding the trade that the FO was trying to PUT Cutler through anyway. So its ok if the coaches trade away the player without him consenting, but if the player asks to be traded, he's now public enemy #1.

As much crap as Cutler got around here for his clothes, his hair cut, his first lack of yelling, then too much yelling. The lack of leadership, then him trying tot ake too much leadership. Him not showing enough fire, then showing too much fire. Soon it would be the candy he handed out to trick-or-treaters.

I don't blame him for getting out now.

[honz]

McDaniels and Bowlen BOTH told Cutler that he was THEIR guy. Bowlen said that Cutler was their franchise QB. McDaniels talked with Cutler and told him how excited he was to work with him and how excited he was to build this team with Cutler.

Then they tried to trade Cutler away behind his back.. blindsided. EVEN Shannon Sharpe said that he NEVER trusted Shanahan again after Mike tried to trade him away behind his back.

So Cutler then sees McDaniels LYING to the media and fans by saying "he only answer the phone" (ANYONE that buys that is absolutely a fool).. and makes it out to be CUTLER that is the paranoid one. McDaniels is telling the lies while Bowlen is sitting back and letting it happen, NOTHING is being said. McDaniels the day of the trade, even hides from the press when it first comes out with his "not talkign about that right now" when confronted with his plan gone public.

Move forward to the interview on TV. McDaniels is trying to sound all "i'm trying" with his "Cutler is our QB"... but when asked if Cutler was their QB of the future, he smiles and says "no one can predict the future." BRILLIANT! Brilliant.

"Sure Cutler is our QB today." thats just what ANY player or employee wants to hear.

Why would we expect Cutler to trust McDaniels anymore than Sharpe trusted Shanahan? Sharpe moved on to Baltimore.

Now Cutler is the baby for asking/demanding the trade that the FO was trying to PUT Cutler through anyway. So its ok if the coaches trade away the player without him consenting, but if the player asks to be traded, he's now public enemy #1.

As much crap as Cutler got around here for his clothes, his hair cut, his first lack of yelling, then too much yelling. The lack of leadership, then him trying tot ake too much leadership. Him not showing enough fire, then showing too much fire. Soon it would be the candy he handed out to trick-or-treaters.

I don't blame him for getting out now.
I disagree on almost all accounts. None of us will never know exactly what happened, but Cutler has changed his story a couple of times now while McDaniels and Bowlen have stayed consistent. That leaves me no other choice than to believe that Cutler is the one lying. Also, I was always one to back Cutler when he would get criticized over stupid little things so it's not like I have some vendetta against him.

[Never Trust a Snake]

You really think not trading a player that won't answer phone calls from his teammates, coaches, or owner is a viable option? Not to mention he demanded a trade...personally, I don't want a QB leading my team if he doesn't really want to "play for his teammates".

Cutler's camp was saying he wouldn't miss any mandatory team functions. He wasn't contractually obligated to answer phone calls. It's the offseason. He's away from work.

Denver mismanaged the situation from the beginning. Most of their attempts to contact Cutler were disgenuine. Last week McDaniels says "he's our guy" and proudly holds his jersey with a smile on his face. Next week he's gone.

It sounds like Denver made a spur of the moment move instead of exerting some patience and persistence. The vision and decision making here was so short-sided.

[honz]

Cutler's camp was saying he wouldn't miss any mandatory team functions. He wasn't contractually obligated to answer phone calls. It's the offseason. He's away from work.

Denver mismanaged the situation from the beginning. Most of their attempts to contact Cutler were disgenuine. Last week McDaniels says "he's our guy" and proudly holds his jersey with a smile on his face. Next week he's gone.

It sounds like Denver made a spur of the moment move instead of exerting some patience and persistence. The vision and decision making here was so short-sided.

He demanded a trade and didn't want to be a Bronco anymore. That's really all it comes down to for me. Sure, we could have forced him to remain a Bronco and play for a coach and owner he most likely has no intentions of listening to, but it would not have been a healthy situation. Then once our defense is good enough to finally contend for a SB, he most likely leaves while Denver gets nothing in return.

[Ravage!!!]

I like(d) Cutler as much as anyone, but a certain Philip Rivers seemed to rattle him pretty easily. It will be interesting to see if he develops any rivalries like that in the North.

Perfect example.

Most of the Cutler detractors have used the "immature" label. Interesting. Since it was just in '07 that the entire NFL was calling Rivers immature. They were calling Rothlesburger immature after his motorcycle accident. Certain retired RBs were calling Eli a 'bad leader' the same year he led the Giants to the biggest Super Bowl upset. Now Rivers is 'super mature'..Rothlesburger is 'king'... and Eli is a 'great leader'.. in just a matter of a season or two. ALL of them are entering their 6th season. NONE were considered to be "Mature and good leaders" in their third.

I remember Tom Brady making brash comments early in his career. I remember Brady even making cocky "we are only going to score 17 points?" before the Super Bowl.

Sure Cutler has been brash and arrogant. Who wants a QB that doesn't have swagger? Sure Cutler has acted immature at times... what young QB, other than Peyton, hasn't?

As far as future rivalries in the north.... nothing will occur again like the one with Rivers. Not only was Rivers considered to be a jerk by Champ Bailey BEFORE that game, but by players from other teams. Then Rivers taunts the crowd the next week when playing Indy. What other QB in the North (or NFL) does that?? None.

[Ravage!!!]

I disagree on almost all accounts. None of us will never know exactly what happened, but Cutler has changed his story a couple of times now while McDaniels and Bowlen have stayed consistent. That leaves me no other choice than to believe that Cutler is the one lying. Also, I was always one to back Cutler when he would get criticized over stupid little things so it's not like I have some vendetta against him.

NOOO... McDaniels story has NEVER BEEN consistent. Not from moment one.

First he wouldn't talk to the media at all after he thought his three way trade dealing would remain a secret.. then he tried to say 'he was only answering the phone'.. then he made a comment that he was 'late for the trade' (you can't be late if you are only answering the phone).

When has McDaniels been consistent? With them claiming they were trying to contact Jay? Is that it? I don't think they wanted Jay as the QB since McD got there, and everything else follows suit.

[Shazam!]

This Broncos offense had a chance to be one of the best in NFL history...

Even seeing another offense as good as the 98' Broncos is a fan's dream, let alone the best in history. Stop playing with yourself.

Cutler did everything he can to whine and bitch since the day Shanahan was fired.

Orton, inferior to Cutler physically as we think he is, gets a haircut, comes to Denver eager to meet his WRs, offense, and coaches. That is a professional.

Also the fact that few players came to Lejay's defense says a lot about him.

He is not John Elway, Brady, Manning, or even Warner. Good riddance.

[honz]

NOOO... McDaniels story has NEVER BEEN consistent. Not from moment one.

First he wouldn't talk to the media at all after he thought his three way trade dealing would remain a secret.. then he tried to say 'he was only answering the phone'.. then he made a comment that he was 'late for the trade' (you can't be late if you are only answering the phone).

When has McDaniels been consistent? With them claiming they were trying to contact Jay? Is that it? I don't think they wanted Jay as the QB since McD got there, and everything else follows suit.
Again, I disagree. He said from day one that they never got far enough along to take an offer to Bowlen's desk. I don't really feel like going back and forth on this again though (for like the 30th time), so I am just going to agree to disagree.

[Ravage!!!]

Even seeing another offense as good as the 98' Broncos is a fan's dream, let alone the best in history. Stop playing with yourself.

Cutler did everything he can to whine and bitch since the day Shanahan was fired.

Orton, inferior to Cutler physically as we think he is, gets a haircut, comes to Denver eager to meet his WRs, offense, and coaches. That is a professional.

Also the fact that few players came to Lejay's defense says a lot about him.

He is not John Elway, Brady, Manning, or even Warner. Good riddance.

Uhmm.. Orton didn't come meet his teammates here any faster than Cutler did.

Orton didn't even know he was a possibility.... other than the fact that everyone knew he wasn't very good and got beat out by QBs such as Griese and Grossman.

The players on the Broncos were VERY MUCh defending him before he was traded. Their responses are just as emotional as anything, especially Marshall's. They know that Cutler was THEIR best bet, and just watched him go. How would you expect them to react... by saying bad things about the team? Hardly.

[Superchop 7]

If it was just McDaniels and Jay.......thats one thing.

But recently, both John Elway and Mark Cooper took pot shots at him.

Why would they get involved when both work "with" Pat ?

Or, where they doing it with Pats blessing.

For the record, Pat has ""fired a coach over his relationship with a franchise QB".

I thought he made it very clear where he stood on the issue with that move.

I was wrong, everything that was coming out was bad about Jay.

Not to mention the taunting from McDaniels.


IMO, if Pat wanted him here, none of that would have happened.

Think about it. How long did it take for Pat to pickup the damn phone ?

Funny how his timing to call was right after a report that Jay wasn't taking calls.

It was all over by that point and everyone knew it.

The rest is a trail of trying to make yourself look like the good guy when everyone with half a brain knows you aren't.

It's called spin.

The logical conclusion is Pat and Josh wanted him gone, they intended to do it in a manner to make themselves look good in the process.

When John came out and said the remarks, I said then, that something had to be going on with Jay.

I figured they were trying to kick him in the rear.

Not out the door.

[Northman]

What about players such as Stokley and Scheffler that have questioned the direction of the organization?





What about guys like Royal and Dumervil who have had nothing but good things to say about him?

[Northman]

I personally don't care if he's as "bad as we thought."

The point is, Orton doesn't make ANYONE excited. He's not the guy that puts butts in the seats or sells out the jersey's. He's not the player that makes opposing teams say "damn"...or makes division rivals say "I hate him because he's so good." Orton is just... Orton. He's a body.

Cutler kept us on the edge of our seats and put people in the stands. Cutler gave us HOPE for the future. Cutler put a FACE and Name to the franchise that would make us PROUD to wear.

Now... Who here will really buy an Orton jersey? No one unless you just have Toooooo much money to throw away.

Does he have a strong 'enough' arm... probably. Do you need a STRONG arm to succeed in the NFL..no. But what attribute does Orton have that makes anyone say "YAY, we have ORTON!!!" (I swear, if someone says "a winning record" I'll puke).

Cutler showed us and the rest of the NFL that we were always a dangerous team on Offense.. a team on the rise because we DID have a franchise QB at our helm. There has been 6 QBs since 1967 that have WON the Super Bowl without despite not being a 'franchise' QB. How LIKELY are we really to go to the big dance with Orton behind center?

(2003 Johnson, 2001 Dilfer, 1992 Rypien, 1988 Williams, 1986 McMahon, 1984 & 1981 Plunkett)

I dont care about if one player makes me excited. I just want to win. I own 3 jerseys Elway, TD, and Sharpe. Outside of that i dont own any other ones.

[Northman]

How so? Cutler never missed a manatory team function. He had honored his contractual obligations. The Broncos didn't have anything on him.


Simple. He asked for a trade and got it.

[Ravage!!!]

If it was just McDaniels and Jay.......thats one thing.

But recently, both John Elway and Mark Cooper took pot shots at him.

Why would they get involved when both work "with" Pat ?

Or, where they doing it with Pats blessing.

For the record, Pat has ""fired a coach over his relationship with a franchise QB".

I thought he made it very clear where he stood on the issue with that move.

I was wrong, everything that was coming out was bad about Jay.

Not to mention the taunting from McDaniels.


IMO, if Pat wanted him here, none of that would have happened.

Think about it. How long did it take for Pat to pickup the damn phone ?

It was all over by that point and everyone knew it.

The rest is a trail of trying to make yourself look like the good guy when everyone with half a brain knows you aren't.

It's called spin.

The logical conclusion is Pat and Josh wanted him gone, they intended to do it in a manner to make themselves look good in the process.

Bowlen picked Elway over Reeves after Reeves had been here for years. He JUST hired McDaniels after firing Mike Shanahan..... turning around and firing him the same offseason with NO assistant coaches and putting out franchise WAYYYY behind this time of year, especially with the draft this close, would NEVER happen.

Bowlen was STUCk with McDaniels.. his hand-picked coach to replace the legendary Mike Shanahan. Pat would have looked TERRIBLY foolish firing McDaniels at this point.

Good post, Super Chop

[Broncospsycho77]

How many games has Josh McDaniels actually coached for the Broncos? It always slips my mind.

[Never Trust a Snake]

Even seeing another offense as good as the 98' Broncos is a fan's dream, let alone the best in history. Stop playing with yourself.

Like the 1998 offense, the 2008 offense ranked 2nd in the NFL in yards/game. They were the second youngest offense in football in age. So you're saying a team with that much youth has no room for growth or protection?


Cutler did everything he can to whine and bitch since the day Shanahan was fired.

Cutler didn't speak much. Other than the initial interview when he just found out what happened, I don't remember Cutler making a negative statement.


Orton, inferior to Cutler physically as we think he is, gets a haircut, comes to Denver eager to meet his WRs, offense, and coaches. That is a professional.

Cutler = top five QB

Orton = top 20


He is not John Elway, Brady, Manning, or even Warner. Good riddance.

Lets write off Cutler after three years!!! You say he's no Manning, but his numbers look awfully similar in his first three seasons.

[Shazam!]

I dont care about if one player makes me excited. I just want to win. I own 3 jerseys Elway, TD, and Sharpe. Outside of that i dont own any other ones.

My days of buying Jerseys of current players are OVER.

[Never Trust a Snake]

Simple. He asked for a trade and got it.

Show me the quote.

[Ravage!!!]

I dont care about if one player makes me excited. I just want to win. I own 3 jerseys Elway, TD, and Sharpe. Outside of that i dont own any other ones.

Ok.. so you want to watch the stat sheet at the end of the day. No need to watch the games right, only to see the sheet with the W on the paper. Great, fine if thats your thing.

Personally, I WANT to watch exciting football and I WANT My bronco players to be exciting while I watch them. If you have exciting players, you have exciting results.

[Northman]

Show me the quote.

Search for it yourself. He had his boy Bus ask for a trade and never denied doing it.

[Northman]

Ok.. so you want to watch the stat sheet at the end of the day. No need to watch the games right, only to see the sheet with the W on the paper. Great, fine if thats your thing.

Personally, I WANT to watch exciting football and I WANT My bronco players to be exciting while I watch them. If you have exciting players, you have exciting results.


Ravens werent that exciting in 2000 yet they won a championship. At the end of the day all i want is to win, if they win by 50 points a game so be it, if they win 7-6 so be it as long as we win. If you want to watch just for exciting players go watch the arena league.

[Never Trust a Snake]

What about guys like Royal and Dumervil who have had nothing but good things to say about him?

Has any new head coach made a negative impression in March? They are running around in shorts. It's a country club right now.

[topscribe]

Lets write off Cutler after three years!!!

Or Orton after two (actually on the field)?

-----

[Shazam!]

Like the 1998 offense, the 2008 offense ranked 2nd in the NFL in yards/game. They were the second youngest offense in football in age. So you're saying a team with that much youth has no room for growth or protection?

Please stop. Do you have any idea how stupid you sound comparing the 2008 Broncos to the 1998 Broncos? Any idea?

[Northman]

Has any new head coach made a negative impression in March? They are running around in shorts. It's a country club right now.

It was a country club under Shanahan just ask Champ Bailey and John Lynch. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Orton is as bad as we think.

Based on what? People on here who have actually studied up on him and watched tape on him beg to differ?

What do you have to base this statement on other than "his name isn't Jay Cutler therefore he must be terrible"?

Just because your butthurt that your boy is gone doesn't mean that his replacement sucks.

[Never Trust a Snake]

Search for it yourself. He had his boy Bus ask for a trade and never denied doing it.

That's because you don't have a quote.

He denied asking for a trade the night before he was traded. He went on record in Nashville.

[Ravage!!!]

Ravens werent that exciting in 2000 yet they won a championship. At the end of the day all i want is to win, if they win by 50 points a game so be it, if they win 7-6 so be it as long as we win. If you want to watch just for exciting players go watch the arena league.

Their defense was FULL of dynamic and EXCITING players. Their defense was EXTREMELY exciting!!

Know how many teams have won without a franchise quality QB since 1967?? Six (6)....

So you do't think the fans were excited to watch a defense that was considered to be one in a decade?? I do.

[Northman]

That's because you don't have a quote.

He denied asking for a trade the night before he was traded. He went on record in Nashville.


I see, so for two weeks, no wait, 3 weeks when his agent asked for the trade he just decided not to speak out and deny the claim? Then, 2 days before the trade when Bowlen announces that they will grant Jay's wish to be traded he again says nothing about it? Wow, you are totally clueless. :lol:

[Northman]

Their defense was FULL of dynamic and EXCITING players. Their defense was EXTREMELY exciting!!

Know how many teams have won without a franchise quality QB since 1967?? Six (6)....

So you do't think the fans were excited to watch a defense that was considered to be one in a decade?? I do.

Sure, but that was a TEAM, not just one player. Your trying to lay this trip that losing Jay is all of a sudden going to make Denver boring. You dont know that. Eddie Royal is exciting! Marshall is exciting! Dawkins is exciting! Woohoo! Life is exciting!!!

[Shazam!]

I believe in almost half of Baltimore's games they scored less than 16 points. Exciting stuff.

[Northman]

I believe in almost half of Baltimore's games they scored less than 16 points. Exciting stuff.

The most excitement that they really had that year took place in the playoffs involving a former Bronco.

[Ravage!!!]

Based on what? People on here who have actually studied up on him and watched tape on him beg to differ?

What do you have to base this statement on other than "his name isn't Jay Cutler therefore he must be terrible"?

Just because your butthurt that your boy is gone doesn't mean that his replacement sucks.

Who has "studied up" on Orton??

I'm not a "orton" hater... I'm just more of feeling Orton is purely a stop-gap. Thats fine, right now we need a stop-gap... but out of 40+ Super Bowls there has been 6 teams that won the SB with a QB that wasn't/isn't franchise quality.

So that tells me, despite you liking Cutler or not liking Cutler's attitude, his skills and abilities give us the GREATEST chance of making it to and winning a Super Bowl.

[Shazam!]

I would ask for someone PLEASE get a Link from the Denver Post when Cutler asked for a trade, but the guy thinks the 2008 Broncos offense was as good as the 1998 Broncos, so it isn't even worth it.

[Never Trust a Snake]

Please stop. Do you have any idea how stupid you sound comparing the 2008 Broncos to the 1998 Broncos? Any idea?

I never said the '08 offense was at the same level. I merely said they both ranked second yards/game, which is a factual statement.

You can't appreciate the fact the '08 Broncos had many qualities of an elite offense, but were held back by inefficiency, poor luck and inexperience. They were the second youngest offense in the NFL, they were going to get better! And historically, yards/game is a worthy barometer of an offense's true ability.

[Northman]

I would ask for someone PLEASE get a Link from the Denver Post when Cutler asked for a trade, but the guy thinks the 2008 Broncos offense was as good as the 1998 Broncos, so it isn't even worth it.

The 2008 Broncos resembled more of the 2000 Broncos than they did of the 98'. Our running attack was nowhere near the 98' club.

[Ravage!!!]

Sure, but that was a TEAM, not just one player. Your trying to lay this trip that losing Jay is all of a sudden going to make Denver boring. You dont know that. Eddie Royal is exciting! Marshall is exciting! Dawkins is exciting! Woohoo! Life is exciting!!!

No.. you are twisting the words. You said you don't care about exciting, you want wins. I said that exciting players bring you wins. Make up your mind.

You tried to say that the Baltimore team wasn't exciting. I said that having a defense that is consdired once in a decade and STACKED with exciting players is very much exciting.

As far as Shazam's "wow 16 points".. if he ONLY sees football as a game that is exciting with LOTs of scoring.. HE is the one that should go start watching the defunct arena league... Personally, I love a defensive game. I love watching a good defense on the field with hard hting and Exciting players. If scoring is all that makes things exciting to you, watch NBA....