Divorce is always harder on the kids

[DenBronx]

Lets face it there's going to be a divorce. Attorneys are going to be scrambling around the next few days to find out who gets what. The he said she said stories keep building by the minute from both sides in their love hate relationship. The sad thing is an annulment is out of the question because someones already been to Hawaii.

So who suffers the most? The kids.....the fans....us. Now we have to go through 5-10 of therapy just to rebuild from all of this mess when all it really took was both of them coming together and saying I LOVE YOU.

I hope we like our new step mom. :coffee:

[Hoshdude7]

I don't know what you just said but it made me hard

[LoyalSoldier]

I honestly feel sorry for the players who are wondering "WHAT THE HELL?!"

[BroncoJoe]

We won before Cutler, haven't won with him.

We'll be ok.

[LoyalSoldier]

We won before Cutler, haven't won with him.

We'll be ok.

We won with a defense and haven't won without it.

[BroncoJoe]

We won with a defense and haven't won without it.

Yeah. That's why Elway retired with the most comeback wins in NFL history.

:tsk:

[DenBronx]

We won before Cutler, haven't won with him.

We'll be ok.

yeah well daddy got hooked on crack cocaine and forgot to fix the defense. not sure any qb can win with our defense last year.


moving on....i think this will really set us back if we dont pull of the right trade. thats really the key is if somehow we land some players that help this team. if we miss then i dont even want to imagine how long its going to take to rebuild.

[claymore]

Yeah. That's why Elway retired with the most comeback wins in NFL history.

:tsk:

That was Dan Reeves Coaching style.

[BroncoJoe]

yeah well daddy got hooked on crack cocaine and forgot to fix the defense. not sure any qb can win with our defense last year.


moving on....i think this will really set us back if we dont pull of the right trade. thats really the key is if somehow we land some players that help this team. if we miss then i dont even want to imagine how long its going to take to rebuild.

So, we're looking at a new Dad and not a new Mom?

[LoyalSoldier]

Yeah. That's why Elway retired with the most comeback wins in NFL history.

:tsk:

Actually thanks for bringing up that point. Even though the defense was never great with Elway, it was never as bad as it has been the last two years. In fact the years that the defense was terrible we lost quite a few games and had losing or even records.

So yes even a QB like Elway couldn't get by without a team.

[BroncoWave]

Lets face it there's going to be a divorce. Attorneys are going to be scrambling around the next few days to find out who gets what. The he said she said stories keep building by the minute from both sides in their love hate relationship. The sad thing is an annulment is out of the question because someones already been to Hawaii.

So who suffers the most? The kids.....the fans....us. Now we have to go through 5-10 of therapy just to rebuild from all of this mess when all it really took was both of them coming together and saying I LOVE YOU.

I hope we like our new step mom. :coffee:

Oh noez....doom and gloom 4EVEA!!!11!1!!!

[BroncoJoe]

Actually thanks for bringing up that point. Even though the defense was never great with Elway, it was never as bad as it has been the last two years. In fact the years that the defense was terrible we lost quite a few games and had losing or even records.

So yes even a QB like Elway couldn't get by without a team.

Elway had two losing seasons his entire career.

Cutler is at 50%.

[silkamilkamonico]

Trading Cutler who can't win without a defense to build a defense that can win without Cutler.

Brilliant.

[BroncoJoe]

Trading Cutler who can't win without a defense to build a defense that can win without Cutler.

Brilliant.

I don't know if you were being sarcastic, but I saluted you anyway.

[LoyalSoldier]

Elway had two losing seasons his entire career.

Cutler is at 50%.

Elway had two losing seasons and a ton of mediocre .500 seasons or 9-7 seasons.

And funny thing, in both those losing seasons Elway had a defense who was ranked 23rd or lower.

[DenBronx]

Trading Cutler who can't win without a defense to build a defense that can win without Cutler.

Brilliant.



how do you know for sure that were going to get the trade right silk. what if both 1st rounders are bust? or one a bust and one just average.

point is....we better get this right.

[LoyalSoldier]

Trading Cutler who can't win without a defense to build a defense that can win without Cutler.

Brilliant.

A defense can't win without an offense either unless that defense is a scoring machine. There haven't been too many of those in all the years of the NFL.

[Lonestar]

just brief note..

We won with a lot of QB's Jake greasy Bubby and God only knows who else besides John..

Lots of teams win consistently with out rocket armed QB's NE has won consistent with later round draft choice QB's..

Why because it was built as a team and Brady blossomed into a becoming a HOF QB because he is surrounded by good talent and GREAT team players..

Would have been nice to have jay.. but he or his agent wants a new contract and they saw the writing on the wall that that was not going to happen soon in DEN..

Sad the weepy wife is leaving town but glad that we will not have all the drama she brought..

[BroncoJoe]

Elway had two losing seasons and a ton of mediocre .500 seasons or 9-7 seasons.

And funny thing, in both those losing seasons Elway had a defense who was ranked 23rd or lower.

Please. 10 playoff appearances. Are you actually going to start dissing Elway now? Are you actually going to say the Elway didn't carry those teams?

You're an idiot if thats what you think.

[silkamilkamonico]

Again.

Cutler can't win without a defense. Fact.

A defense can win without Cutler. Fact.

At least we're now going to make the attempt to build that defense. If we don't get it right, big deal. We're not winning with Cutler and no defense anyways, so we're not losing anything.

Ain't that hard.

[BroncoJoe]

Again.

Cutler can't win without a defense. Fact.

A defense can win without Cutler. Fact.

At least we're now going to make the attempt to build that defense. If we don't get it right, big deal. We're not winning with Cutler and no defense anyways, so we're not losing anything.

Ain't that hard.

Brilliant!

[Lonestar]

how do you know for sure that were going to get the trade right silk. what if both 1st rounders are bust? or one a bust and one just average.

point is....we better get this right.

same goes what if our only #1 was a bust we would be in the same boat..

I heard that the FO has taken out a subscription to Mayocks NFL draft newsletter.. so we should be fine with our picks..

Unlike mikeys WTF is he doing comment we have heard in years past...:laugh:

[CoachChaz]

Who gives a damn...this is the modern NFL. Teams can go 1-15 and then make the playoffs the next year. With free agency and a few solid draft picks, we'll be just fine. 5-10 years to recover? Seriously? It's only the teams with pathetic ownership that mire their organizations into the basement forever.

...and if anyone seriously compares Denver to Oakland, Detroit, etc...they should have their membership revoked immediately

[BroncoJoe]

Who gives a damn...this is the modern NFL. Teams can go 1-15 and then make the playoffs the next year. With free agency and a few solid draft picks, we'll be just fine. 5-10 years to recover? Seriously? It's only the teams with pathetic ownership that mire their organizations into the basement forever.

...and if anyone seriously compares Denver to Oakland, Detroit, etc...they should have their membership revoked immediately

I agree 100%.

[BroncoWave]

Who gives a damn...this is the modern NFL. Teams can go 1-15 and then make the playoffs the next year. With free agency and a few solid draft picks, we'll be just fine. 5-10 years to recover? Seriously? It's only the teams with pathetic ownership that mire their organizations into the basement forever.

...and if anyone seriously compares Denver to Oakland, Detroit, etc...they should have their membership revoked immediately

But noez! It's all doom and gloom! Cutler is the only good QB ever! We will never win another game if Jay Cutler isn't our QB! I mean, everyone knows the defense will never ever get better so the only way we ever win another game is Jay Cutler! OH NOEZ!!!!!!!

[LoyalSoldier]

Please. 10 playoff appearances. Are you actually going to start dissing Elway now? Are you actually going to say the Elway didn't carry those teams?

You're an idiot if thats what you think.

Dissing Elway? HA! That sounds like you don't get it at all

You fail to see that the very things you guys bash Cutler on was the very thing that people bashed Elway on. The very thing that Broncos fans say when Montana vs Elway debates comes up. If Elway had the same team as Montana how many superbowls would Elway have won?

It is easy now to say how good Elway was since his career has been finished for 10 years now, but we tend to forget that Elway had similar issues. He had seasons where he threw as many Ints as TDs(even seasons where he threw more Ints than TDs), he had seasons where his defense was a mess, and when he finally got help from the rest of the team he was able to accomplish amazing feats.

The point is even a QB as amazing as Elway needed a team. That is what football is, a team sport. Elway was able to win with an average defense, but never in his career did he win with a terrible one.

[BroncoJoe]

Dissing Elway? HA! That sounds like you don't get it at all

You fail to see that the very things you guys bash Cutler on was the very thing that people bashed Elway on. The very thing that Broncos fans say when Montana vs Elway debates comes up. If Elway had the same team as Montana how many superbowls would Elway have won?

It is easy now to say how good Elway was since his career has been finished for 10 years now, but we tend to forget that Elway had similar issues. He had seasons where he threw as many Ints as TDs(even seasons where he threw more Ints than TDs), he had seasons where his defense was a mess, and when he finally got help from the rest of the team he was able to accomplish amazing feats.

The point is even a QB as amazing as Elway needed a team. That is what football is, a team sport.

I don't disagree, but the fact is John won more games than anyone else upon his retirement. He carried his teams on his back. He didn't sit and sulk on the bench. He was a leader.

Either way, I'm not "all in" with Cutler. He needs to be gone.

[LoyalSoldier]

Again.

Cutler can't win with a TERRIBLE, PUTRID, AWFUL, PATHETIC, WORST IN THE LEAGUE, SHOULD BE PLAYING HIGH SCHOOL defense. Fact.

A defense can win without Cutler. Fact.

At least we're now going to make the attempt to build that defense. If we don't get it right, big deal. We're not winning with Cutler and no defense anyways, so we're not losing anything.

Ain't that hard.

I corrected that. Cutler should be able to win with a decent defense. :tsk:

No QB could win with the defense we had.

[silkamilkamonico]

I corrected that. Cutler should be able to win with a decent defense. :tsk:

No QB could win with the defense we had.

There are no "should's" in "facts".

Let's not forget how many points Cutler virtually gave the other team because of interceptions thrown for TD's, or turnovers on Denver's side of the field that led directly to a FG/TD, or even a 3 and out FG.

Miami is a perfect example of that, when Cutler was a direct result in 13 of Miami's 26 points, which would have led to a Bronco win. He might have won Denver some games, but he lost them too.

[LoyalSoldier]

There are no "should's" in "facts".

Let's not forget how many points Cutler virtually gave the other team because of interceptions thrown for TD's, or turnovers on Denver's side of the field that led directly to a FG/TD, or even a 3 and out FG.

Miami is a perfect example of that, when Cutler was a direct result in 13 of Miami's 26 points, which would have led to a Bronco win. He might have won Denver some games, but he lost them too.

And tell me how many turnovers did the defense give Cutler? We so easily get on Cutler's case for the turnovers, but a fact was that Denver was dead last in turnovers forced. In fact we were so far behind that the second worst had 4 more than we did.

Also I might mention how nice it would have been if maybe every once in a while that the defense could cover for a mistake by the offense.

Our defense wasn't just bad, it was historically bad.

[BroncoJoe]

And tell me how many turnovers did the defense give Cutler? We so easily get on Cutler's case for the turnovers, but a fact was that Denver was dead last in turnovers forced. In fact we were so far behind that the second worst had 4 more than we did.

Also I might mention how nice it would have been if maybe every once in a while that the defense could cover for a mistake by the offense.

Our defense wasn't just bad, it was historically bad.

We gave the ball away FAR too many times. Has nothing to do with the defense, other than them being disgusted that they had to take the field again and momentum changes.

[silkamilkamonico]

And tell me how many turnovers did the defense give Cutler? We so easily get on Cutler's case for the turnovers, but a fact was that Denver was dead last in turnovers forced. In fact we were so far behind that the second worst had 4 more than we did.

Also I might mention how nice it would have been if maybe every once in a while that the defense could cover for a mistake by the offense.

Our defense wasn't just bad, it was historically bad.

Yea I know how bad the defense was. I watched every game. I am hardly sticking up for the defense at all.

I do find it funny that people are so quick to use the defense when pointing out obvious struggles with the organization, but when someone uses Cutler (like Miami), it's an immediate response turned back on the defense.

Everybody here knows how terrible the defense was.

When everyone can finally admit that Cutler had struggles too, and actually did things to help Denver lose (like Miami) without deflecting the argument back on to the defense, it shouldn't hurt as much.

I've admitted the defense is atrocious. Can the "Cutler camper's" admit that Cutler did some things (like Miami) that put our defense in an even worse position?

[BroncoJoe]

Yea I know how bad the defense was. I watched every game. I am hardly sticking up for the defense at all.

I do find it funny that people are so quick to use the defense when pointing out obvious struggles with the organization, but when someone uses Cutler (like Miami), it's an immediate response turned back on the defense.

Everybody here knows how terrible the defense was.

When everyone can finally admit that Cutler had struggles too, and actually did things to help Denver lose (like Miami) without deflecting the argument back on to the defense, it shouldn't hurt as much.

I've admitted the defense is atrocious. Can the "Cutler camper's" admit that Cutler did some things (like Miami) that put our defense in an even worse position?

Don't forget Buffalo with the playoffs on the line!

[silkamilkamonico]

We gave the ball away FAR too many times. Has nothing to do with the defense, other than them being disgusted that they had to take the field again and momentum changes.

Yea I don't understand that argument either.

The horrendous defense shouldn't have any direct correlation to an offense struggling. The offense should still do their job.

[LoyalSoldier]

We gave the ball away FAR too many times. Has nothing to do with the defense, other than them being disgusted that they had to take the field again and momentum changes.


Yea I don't understand that argument either.

The horrendous defense shouldn't have any direct correlation to an offense struggling. The offense should still do their job.


That is where you are wrong. If the defense gives you terrible field position and constantly pins you on your goal line, it does effect your offense. The further they have to go the more plays they have to run and the more that can go wrong. Also if the defense puts you into good field position you can get easy TDs. The Cardinals had as many turnovers as we did last year, but they were still even on the year for turnover ratio.

Football is a team game and also a game of field position.

As an offense we did have a problem with turnovers especially in the middle of the season, however Cutler was far from the only one with a problem. We had 12 fumbles and only two came from Cutler. That means we had 10 fumbles by other players.

[BroncoJoe]

That is where you are wrong. If the defense gives you terrible field position and constantly pins you on your goal line, it does effect your offense. The further they have to go the more plays they have to run and the more that can go wrong. Also if the defense puts you into good field position you can get easy TDs. The Cardinals had as many turnovers as we did last year, but they were still even on the year for turnover ratio.

As an offense we did have a problem with turnovers especially in the middle of the season, however Cutler was far from the only one with a problem. We had 12 fumbles and only two came from Cutler. That means we had 10 fumbles by other players.

Cutler put the ball on the ground five times. Maybe he only lost two, but that still means we lost a down and yardage on the other three. Oh, and 18 INT's was only topped by Favre.

[silkamilkamonico]

That is where you are wrong. If the defense gives you terrible field position and constantly pins you on your goal line, it does effect your offense. The further they have to go the more plays they have to run and the more that can go wrong. Also if the defense puts you into good field position you can get easy TDs. The Cardinals had as many turnovers as we did last year, but they were still even on the year for turnover ratio.

As an offense we did have a problem with turnovers especially in the middle of the season, however Cutler was far from the only one with a problem. We had 12 fumbles and only two came from Cutler. That means we had 10 fumbles by other players.


Kind of like the offense in the miami game. While the defense was forcing Miami to punt, Cutler and the offense was going 3 and out, throwing interceptions for either a TD, or on Denver's side of the field that directly resulted in Fg's, even with them being 3 and outs from our defense.

New England was another fun game too. When the defense showed up in the first half, the offense was going 3 and out, or turning the ball over, and the defense would have to hang on just to give up the FG.

Jacksonville, and the KC games are other examples of that too.

[LoyalSoldier]

Cutler put the ball on the ground five times. Maybe he only lost two, but that still means we lost a down and yardage on the other three. Oh, and 18 INT's was only topped by Favre.

5 times? Have you actually bothered to look up just what the average was?

In fact it was significantly lower than other QBs. Rivers put it on the ground 8 times, Brees 6, Cassel 7, Rogers 10, Warner 11, Rothleburger 14, Eli Manning 5, and P Manning 1. Out of those QBs the average was about 8. So Cutler was above average when it came to holding on to the ball.

Please do the research next time.

As for the Ints 18 was a league high, but it was not a Broncos high. We have won with QBs throwing more than that.

[DenBronx]

yeah welcome home kyle orton. like i said divorce is harder on the kids....here's looking forward to 5 + years of rebuilding. :beer: