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Buff
10-18-2007, 03:59 PM
Here, there is none.

Discuss.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2007, 04:02 PM
Do you feel there is no diversity amongst moderators in regards to their posts, or in regards to the way they mod?

topscribe
10-18-2007, 04:06 PM
You're going to have to elaborate.

I haven't the foggiest as to what the hell you mean.

-----

Buff
10-18-2007, 04:19 PM
I would liken the moderators here to a jury that hears something from a lawyer that's deemed inadmissable. The judge instructs the jury to disregard what they just heard-- which sounds like a prudent solution, but both you and I know that the jury can't change the fact that they heard what they heard and are going to form an opinion...

Here, we've lined up a bunch of folks that subscribe to the same belief structure-- and we expect them to act without bias. It's a nice thought, and I don't doubt that the moderators do their best to overcome their own biases-- but at the end of the day, a leopard can't change its spots.

Kapaibro
10-18-2007, 04:20 PM
You mean there's a lack of middle-of-the-road types

Devil's advocate types?

Buff
10-18-2007, 04:21 PM
You're going to have to elaborate.

I haven't the foggiest as to what the hell you mean.

-----

Well, my main point is that the majority of the Advisory Board and
Mods are composed of those more of "conservative"
and "Christian" philosophies. And I think that's understating things a bit.

To me, that seems like a lack of diversity.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Well, my main point is that the majority of the Advisory Board and
Mods are composed of those more of "conservative"
and "Christian" philosophies. And I think that's understating things a bit.

To me, that seems like a lack of diversity.

I'm "Christian" and "conservative." Do you think that has skewed my modding,
or do you agree I have reached out to you, maybe more than you expected
me to?

-----

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2007, 04:47 PM
Well, my main point is that the majority of the Advisory Board and
Mods are composed of those more of "conservative"
and "Christian" philosophies. And I think that's understating things a bit.

To me, that seems like a lack of diversity.

I can assure you that the mods mod according to the guidelines. If you feel they do not, you need to state specifics.

If you feel they mod some members posts differently than others, or possibly let some things go because of who the member is, the reason could be that mod(s) can not be on all forums, all threads, all posts, all the time, and therefore, it is up to a member to report a post.

But I can assure you that no mod will let something go because they know/feel the poster, to use your term, is more "conservative". Every member is treated the same, and that goes for tnedator, the mods, board members, and all members. No exceptions.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 05:07 PM
BBF, if you can come up with some specific examples to back your implication,
then let's see them. Otherwise, I am of the impression that you posted this
just to stir things up.

Every one of the Mods has corrected "religious" and "conservative" posters in
favor of those to the "left." Every one of us has.

Frankly, this thread of yours surprises me, on the tail end of our converstion
via PM. Lil' ol' "conservative" and "religious" me invited you to this message
board in the first place, if you remember. Then I reached out to you as
much as I possibly could in our PMs that we conducted just today.

I'll tell you what, I can reproduce all our PMs since I saved them all, to let
the rest of the message board know just how much I tried to let you know
that I'm behind you. Because, after the conversation we had, I get the
distinct perception that you are just trying to "stir the pot" with this thread.

-----

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2007, 05:17 PM
For any one who has not read the Posting Rules and Guidelines for Broncos Forums, it would be a good idea to do so. They are listed in this "Town Hall" Forum.

And again, I suggest that if ANY member feels that mods are moddng "outside the box" of the Posting Rules and Guidelines, in particular instances, please feel free to bring it to our attention. Please state specifics, so we have something to go on.

Buff
10-18-2007, 05:41 PM
BBF, if you can come up with some specific examples to back your implication,
then let's see them. Otherwise, I am of the impression that you posted this
just to stir things up.

Every one of the Mods has corrected "religious" and "conservative" posters in
favor of those to the "left." Every one of us has.

Frankly, this thread of yours surprises me, on the tail end of our converstion
via PM. Lil' ol' "conservative" and "religious" me invited you to this message
board in the first place, if you remember. Then I reached out to you as
much as I possibly could in our PMs that we conducted just today.

I'll tell you what, I can reproduce all our PMs since I saved them all, to let
the rest of the message board know just how much I tried to let you know
that I'm behind you. Because, after the conversation we had, I get the
distinct perception that you are just trying to "stir the pot" with this thread.

-----

Top, please, no need to be so defensive. You have gone far above and beyond the call of duty. You have reached out to me in a number of ways, going so far as to invite me to the site... But you are the exception, not the rule.

Is this post to stir the pot a bit? Absolutely, but I do it because I can see this place is in need of a good pot stirring.

I do it because the conversations we had are private, and I feel that the other folks on this board, moderators included, could stand to have a similar discussion.

So please, I don't mean to call you out, or implicate you for anything... But I think we can both agree there is a lack of diversity amongst moderators-- which is the main point of this thread.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2007, 05:57 PM
BBF - Would you please state exact situations why you feel there is no diversity amongst moderators. I am also a moderator, and would like to understand why you feel this way, and why you started this thread. Apparently, something happened.

Requiem / The Dagda
10-18-2007, 06:28 PM
Well, I brought this up too and I was told that it would be addressed down the road. It seemed a bit perplexing to me, because on any past moderating staff I've been a part of you try to have moderators on the site that represent everyone on the forum - and you strive for diversity, and originally we didn't have that here, and to an extent we still don't. However, this group - despite our obvious differences have done a pretty swell job over the past week or so. There have been instances in the past where I feel that perhaps their own belief system and values have came into a clash with other members, but I think that things have been straightened out over the past week or so.

When it comes to issues like religion and politics, it's going to get stuffy and heated. I've seen nothing but improvement from several members of the moderating staff and there have been some recent additions to the Advisory Board in order to fill that "quota" of being diverse. On more than one occasion, moderators who do not need to be named have taken time and were cordial in reassuring that regardless of beliefs or ideologies, they would do their best to strive for equal and fair treatment on the board regarding policy and procedure.

I think those who went out of their way to tell me that have done an admirable job and kept to their word.

Thanks to those who have, it's appreciated. Now just find a way to "utilize" me and put in me Coach! :cool: ;)

topscribe
10-18-2007, 06:52 PM
Well, I brought this up too and I was told that it would be addressed down the road. It seemed a bit perplexing to me, because on any past moderating staff I've been a part of you try to have moderators on the site that represent everyone on the forum - and you strive for diversity, and originally we didn't have that here, and to an extent we still don't. However, this group - despite our obvious differences have done a pretty swell job over the past week or so. There have been instances in the past where I feel that perhaps their own belief system and values have came into a clash with other members, but I think that things have been straightened out over the past week or so.

When it comes to issues like religion and politics, it's going to get stuffy and heated. I've seen nothing but improvement from several members of the moderating staff and there have been some recent additions to the Advisory Board in order to fill that "quota" of being diverse. On more than one occasion, moderators who do not need to be named have taken time and were cordial in reassuring that regardless of beliefs or ideologies, they would do their best to strive for equal and fair treatment on the board regarding policy and procedure.

I think those who went out of their way to tell me that have done an admirable job and kept to their word.

Thanks to those who have, it's appreciated. Now just find a way to "utilize" me and put in me Coach! :cool: ;)

You know what? There will be NO "affirmative action" on the Mods. What if
we do neglect to take the best candidate, and select someone on the "left"
instead to "fill the quota"? Then we will have to make sure the black
population is represented. Then the hispanic. Let's don't forget the Italians
and the oriental. Oh yes, with me here, the Jews are grossly over-represented
because I am 1/4 of the crew, and the population is not 25% Jewish.
Therefore, we'll have to carve out 1/5 of me, or maybe 1/10 to get me
down to the proper proportion. (Maybe we can go by body weight?). Let's
not forget women. Roughly 50% of the population is female, and we have
only one (1) woman on the crew, or 25% representation.

Now, as I said previously, let us not get into hypothetics. If you can point
out specific examples where you have been discriminated against, let is see
them. Because we can certainly point out specific examples where you have
been protected against "conservative Christians," can't you, DREAM?? You,
of all people, should be very happy over the way we have responded to
your MANY reported posts.

We have a setup here that NO OTHER MESSAGE BOARD HAS! We have an
Advisory Board that represents YOU, the poster. If you feel you have been
mistreated or otherwise treated unfairly by a Mod, you have a place to go
to appeal it, to posters just like you, who reprsent YOU, the poster, NOT
the Administration. Mods are NOT voting members of that Board, BTW. It
would behoove you to APPRECIATE what we are trying to do on this
message board instead of complaining, moaning, and whining about
"diversity," trying to instigate a big controversy over a situation that DOES
NOT EXIST!

Let me repeat: If you can come up with specific examples of discrimination,
let us see them. Otherwise, be grateful for a message board such as this,
that offers AVENUES OF APPEAL that are existent NOWHERE ELSE.

-----

topscribe
10-18-2007, 06:55 PM
Top, please, no need to be so defensive. You have gone far above and beyond the call of duty. You have reached out to me in a number of ways, going so far as to invite me to the site... But you are the exception, not the rule.

Is this post to stir the pot a bit? Absolutely, but I do it because I can see this place is in need of a good pot stirring.

I do it because the conversations we had are private, and I feel that the other folks on this board, moderators included, could stand to have a similar discussion.

So please, I don't mean to call you out, or implicate you for anything... But I think we can both agree there is a lack of diversity amongst moderators-- which is the main point of this thread.

Okay, so I am the exception. So Mtnman, Jrwiz, and Denver Native have
been unfair, is that what you are saying? It surely seems that way to me.
So, as I said, let's get specific here because I'm not going to have much
patience with vague allusions.

Give me some examples. SPECIFIC examples.

And if you see something about me, don't leave me out of it.

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Requiem / The Dagda
10-18-2007, 06:57 PM
I said in the past there were instances that I felt that things were unfair, however I said I commended you all on providing fairness and promising it in PM's to us over the past week or so. :beer:

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2007, 07:02 PM
I said in the past there were instances that I felt that things were unfair, however I said I commended you all on providing fairness and promising it in PM's to us over the past week or so. :beer:

Fairness to all posters means we will mod based on the Board's Guidelines. When they were first posted, very few members even commented on them.

lex
10-18-2007, 07:13 PM
Fairness to all posters means we will mod based on the Board's Guidelines. When they were first posted, very few members even commented on them.

Judgment comes into play however and this is what creates the problems. For example, in the P&R forum I responded to what another poster had said and addressed an idea that he specifically mentioned in a post. Next thing I know, Im getting a warning from Topscribe and Mountain man was playing the role of foxhole buddy. I replied to elaborate on the point I was making as well as pointing to the fact that I was being warned for responding to a poster that they agreed with...and of course that posters faux pas was ignored. After I pointed this out, Mountain man deleted both posts where I was more elaborate. Not only was poor judgment used in issuing the warning but the worst of it was Mountain man blindly defending his foxhole buddy.

Later I received a PM from Topscribe about the process for complaint. A) I shouldnt have to complain because a mod should use better judgment to begin with and B) I have a problem with the only available avenue one has for recourse. But again, I shouldve never been in that position to begin with.

I think this is a clear example of how eagerly mods rebuke someone who expresses sentiment that doesnt coincide with their world view(s).

Kapaibro
10-18-2007, 07:15 PM
Whoaaaaaaaaa....

It looks to me like BBF isn't calling anyone out for their moderating skills, just noting that the majority of the mods fall into a certain area.

He isn't saying the mods we have are bad at what they do.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:17 PM
I said in the past there were instances that I felt that things were unfair, however I said I commended you all on providing fairness and promising it in PM's to us over the past week or so. :beer:

Thing about it is, the Mods do not comprise a decision-making body. We
enforce the rules, that's all. No one hires police, deputy sheriffs, highway
patrol, campus police, or sentinels in the doorways of Masonic Lodges, based
on politics. Nor should it happen here.

The decision-making body is the Board of Advisors. Recently, we selected
two members (Dogfish and Kapaibro) who were not so far to the "right" and
not overly religious . . . as well as their exceptional maturity and wisdom . .
to help represent more of a cross-section of the membership.

Moreover, even before these two ever entered the discussion, the Board
had a deep discussion about not allowing ourselves to impose own opinions
and sense of "morality" onto the membership. We talked about the very
diverse cross-section of ethnics and cultures on the Board and endeavored
to make decisions in YOUR favor, regarding the environment on the message
board. In addition, we voted the Mods off the voting priveleges on the
Board so you will have recourse when you feel you have been unfairly dealt
with . . . and you will be interested to know that the vote was carried by
the last vote we Mods will participate in. In other words, we voted ourselves
OFF the Board.

Let me repeat: You will not find these kinds of efforts and representation
anywhere else. You will also not find utopia. It isn't perfect here, nor will it
ever be. But we are the best in existence in this area. I really believe that.

So, let me also repeat: Let us be grateful that Tned created this Broncos
Forums out of his own pocket, then immediately surrendered all control of
it to an Advisory Board, save a single vote on that Board, of which he most
certainly is entitled.

There are some things I don't like about this board. There are some things
I don't like about every single message board I have seen. But I love this
board, and I am so grateful we have the setup we do.

Trust the Mods to be fair with you, until you find you cannot. When you
find that, turn them over to YOUR representatives, the Advisory Board. If
that Mod is screwing up, they WILL deal with it impartially. Trust me.

-----

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:23 PM
Judgment comes into play however and this is what creates the problems. For example, in the P&R forum I responded to what another poster had said and addressed an idea that he specifically mentioned in a post. Next thing I know, Im getting a warning from Topscribe and Mountain man was playing the role of foxhole buddy. I replied to elaborate on the point I was making as well as pointing to the fact that I was being warned for responding to a poster that they agreed with...and of course that posters faux pas was ignored. After I pointed this out, Mountain man deleted both posts where I was more elaborate. Not only was poor judgment used in issuing the warning but the worst of it was Mountain man blindly defending his foxhole buddy.

Later I received a PM from Topscribe about the process for complaint. A) I shouldnt have to complain because a mod should use better judgment to begin with and B) I have a problem with the only available avenue one has for recourse. But again, I shouldve never been in that position to begin with.

I think this is a clear example of how eagerly mods rebuke someone who expresses sentiment that doesnt coincide with their world view(s).

I'm not sure what you said there. But what I assured you is that you can
appeal it to the Advisory Board who would look at it objectively and fairly.
That is exactly what I told you. Since you declined to do that, then you
don't have a case until you do.

This "foxhole buddy" business is a bald-faced LIE. I have corrected Mtnman,
and he has corrected me already. (Not necessarily on this case, but we
have.) We Mod each other.

Now, as I mentioned, you still have the right to appeal the case to the
Advisory Board. If you decline, then don't whine and snivel about it. You
created your own loss.

-----

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:27 PM
Whoaaaaaaaaa....

It looks to me like BBF isn't calling anyone out for their moderating skills, just noting that the majority of the mods fall into a certain area.

He isn't saying the mods we have are bad at what they do.

I know what he is doing. Nor did I say anything about modding skills.

I just believe this is creating a controversy out of nothing. If prejudice and
bigotry become evident in he modding process, then bring it up. Until then,
don't instigate a controversy where there is not one.

-----

lex
10-18-2007, 07:27 PM
I'm not sure what you said there. But what I assured you is that you can
appeal it to the Advisory Board who would look at it objectively and fairly.
That is exactly what I told you. Since you declined to do that, then you
don't have a case until you do.

This "foxhole buddy" business is a bald-faced LIE. I have corrected Mtnman,
and he has corrected me already. We Mod each other.

Now, as I mentioned, you still have the right to appeal the case to the
Advisory Board. If you decline, then don't whine and snivel about it. You
created your own loss.

-----

And like Ive said twice now, the process doesnt work for me. The reason I mentioned in here is because it was an example-- it was topical.

And whether or not I seek recourse is not the issue. It doesnt change what happened and the fact that you and Mtman have modded each other at least once doesnt change what happened either.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:30 PM
And like Ive said twice now, the process doesnt work for me. The reason I mentioned in here is because it was an example-- it was topical.

And whether or not I seek recourse is not the issue. It doesnt change what happened and the fact that you and Mtman have modded each other at least once doesnt change what happened either.

OF COURSE the process doesn't work for you.

When did you ever implement it?

That's like the auto mechanic, standing there looking at his tools, saying
they aren't working for him. :tsk:

-----

lex
10-18-2007, 07:36 PM
OF COURSE the process doesn't work for you.

When did you ever implement it?

That's like the auto mechanic, standing there looking at his tools, saying
they aren't working for him. :tsk:

-----

And your point? Im going to make a point however. Perhaps if there was less likeminded mod representation, the episode I described would not have happened. Perhaps you would have been more aware of being overzealous through collaborating with mods that have different viewpoints. The original poster makes a valid point and it might be on full display in the episode Ive described.

Kapaibro
10-18-2007, 07:41 PM
OK. Top and lex, take it somewhere else.

Lex, you have some issues about the mod process, so bring it up with those of us on the Advisory board.

Top, deep breaths mate, and step away.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:45 PM
And your point? Im going to make a point however. Perhaps if there was less likeminded mod representation, the episode I described would not have happened. Perhaps you would have been more aware of being overzealous through collaborating with mods that have different viewpoints. The original poster makes a valid point and it might be on full display in the episode Ive described.

You never got my point? I mean, you really did not get the point? :tsk:

No, in the episode you described, we thought alike because we felt you were
wrong. We are not going to disagree just so we can have differing viewpoints.

Again, the entire message board can see right here that you did not bother to
pursue the matter with the Advisory Board to see whether you were right or
wrong. So the entire message board can see that you have not made a
valid point of your own.

As I said, submit it to the Advisory Board. Don't whine in this thread about
it when you haven't bothered even to pursue it. Your case has nothing at
all to do with "diversity." Nor is it all about you. Either give yourself a break
and follow the proper channels, or get over it.

-----

lex
10-18-2007, 07:45 PM
OK. Top and lex, take it somewhere else.

Lex, you have some issues about the mod process, so bring it up with those of us on the Advisory board.

Top, deep breaths mate, and step away.

I have a problem with the advisory board.

lex
10-18-2007, 07:47 PM
You never got my point? I mean, you really did not get the point?

No, in the episode you described, we thought alike because we felt you were
wrong. We are not going to disagree just so we can have differing viewpoints.

Again, the entire message board can see right here that you did not bother to
pursue the matter with the Advisory Board to see whether you were right or
wrong. So the entire message board can see that you have not made a
valid point of your own.

As I said, submit it to the Advisory Board. Don't whine in this thread about
it when you haven't bothered even to pursue it. Your case has nothing at
all to do with "diversity." Nor is it all about you. Either give yourself a break
and follow the proper channels, or get over it.

-----

Again with the nonsense. Its like when you encounter friction you go in attack mode. It was on display there as it is here. What youre not comprehending is that Im not seeking recourse. Im providing a relevant example. And youre making another one in this exchange.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:48 PM
OK. Top and lex, take it somewhere else.

Lex, you have some issues about the mod process, so bring it up with those of us on the Advisory board.

Top, deep breaths mate, and step away.

Kap, you are not a Mod.

This is the place to do this. If it is too much for you, there are a lot of other
places you can browse. I am going to answer this the way I answer it here.
Period.

-----

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:50 PM
I have a problem with the advisory board.

If you have something SPECIFIC against the Advisory Board, let's hear it. You
are more than welcome to say it here. If there is something wrong, we ALL
want to know about it. Believe me.

-----

Kapaibro
10-18-2007, 07:51 PM
Kap, you are not a Mod.

This is the place to do this. If it is too much for you, there are a lot of other
places you can browse. I am going to answer this the way I answer it here.
Period.

-----

I said that because your discussion with lex is not on topic.

lex
10-18-2007, 07:53 PM
If you have something SPECIFIC against the Advisory Board, let's hear it. You
are more than welcome to say it here. If there is something wrong, we ALL
want to know about it. Believe me.

-----


Once again, IM NOT SEEKING RECOURSE FOR YOUR POOR JUDGMENT! Deswegen gibt es kein Grund zu erklaren.

anton...
10-18-2007, 07:53 PM
i said the same thing when the forum started but either way i never have probs with mods, so i dont really care as the ship seems to running smooth says this indifferent observer...

and the advisory board seems like a good setup...
________
Paradise Park condo Jomtien (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

Poet
10-18-2007, 07:53 PM
The moderating staff here is fine. What type of person they are as far as politics and religion is irrelevant. They have done a good job modding as far I as can tell. Even a moderator had his posted edited just like a lot of us (including me like x12). The mods are fair, even if their political views are lacking.;):beer:

lex
10-18-2007, 07:55 PM
I said that because your discussion with lex is not on topic.

I hear what youre saying and I apologize. I only brought it up because it was relevant to the discussion. I really think if there was more diverse opinion amongst the mods it might give way to better judgment due to collaborating with others who have different opinions.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:57 PM
I said that because your discussion with lex is not on topic.

It is very much on topic. He is implying a lack of diversity and pointing to a
single incident as documentation. I am saying it has nothing to do with
diversity, but that he should present it to the Advisory Board to get to the
bottom of it.

Until then, he has no case, neither for himself or diversity.

But I am going to take up such a matter if it arises because it is better to
air it out than to let it simmer under the surface. If it is a little off topic, oh
well. If the spontenaity is gone, the issue sinks once again below the surface.
It's better to get it out.

-----

topscribe
10-18-2007, 07:59 PM
I hear what youre saying and I apologize. I only brought it up because it was relevant to the discussion. I really think if there was more diverse opinion amongst the mods it might give way to better judgment due to collaborating with others who have different opinions.

That is the very purpose of the Advisory Board, or one of them. But you are
like the person who speaks out against what politicians do but never votes.
If you don't use the system, then what you say carries no weight.

-----

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2007, 08:00 PM
My opinion, if mods, board members and members ALL follow the Broncos Forums Posting Rules and Guidelines - all will be fine. SEEMS PRETTY EASY TO ME.

lex
10-18-2007, 08:01 PM
It is very much on topic. He is implying a lack of diversity and pointing to a
single incident as documentation. I am saying it has nothing to do with
diversity, but that he should present it to the Advisory Board to get to the
bottom of it.

Until then, he has no case, neither for himself or diversity.

But I am going to take up such a matter if it arises because it is better to
air it out than to let it simmer under the surface. If it is a little off topic, oh
well. If the spontenaity is gone, the issue sinks once again below the surface.
It's better to get it out.

-----

I like how you posture that because I didnt bring it before the High Council, it didnt happen or is not relevant. Sorry dude. It happened and its relevant. Youre point about me bringing it before the advisory board would only traction if I was asking your you to be addressed about this. But just because Im not interested in doing that it doesnt mean what happened isnt relevant to whats being discussed, nor does it mean I should have to acquiesce as you seem to imply.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 08:03 PM
I like how you posture that because I didnt bring it before the High Council, it didnt happen or is not relevant. Sorry dude. It happened and its relevant. Youre point about me bringing it before the advisory board would only traction if I was asking your you to be addressed about this. But just because Im not interested in doing that it doesnt mean what happened isnt relevant to whats being discussed, nor does it mean I should have to acquiesce as you seem to imply.

You didn't use the system; you have no case. Period. Discussion over. :coffee:

-----

lex
10-18-2007, 08:08 PM
You didn't use the system; you have no case. Period. Discussion over. :coffee:

-----

What case? Who said anything about a case? Once again, I wasnt asking that you be censured. As it is this point of yours that you feel you keep making has no traction. You keep feeding us red herring.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2007, 08:09 PM
I hear what youre saying and I apologize. I only brought it up because it was relevant to the discussion. I really think if there was more diverse opinion amongst the mods it might give way to better judgment due to collaborating with others who have different opinions.

Diverse opinion amongst the mods has nothing to do with anything. I don't know how many times I have to say - all mods, regardless of their political or religious views, or views on anything else, should be modding based on the Guidelines set forth for Broncos Forums. NOTHING MORE - NOTHING LESS.

LordTrychon
10-18-2007, 08:23 PM
My opinion, if mods, board members and members ALL follow the Broncos Forums Posting Rules and Guidelines - all will be fine. SEEMS PRETTY EASY TO ME.

Diverse opinion amongst the mods has nothing to do with anything. I don't know how many times I have to say - all mods, regardless of their political or religious views, or views on anything else, should be modding based on the Guidelines set forth for Broncos Forums. NOTHING MORE - NOTHING LESS.


Well, I was going to throw out my opinion on the subject, but Carol posted it for me.

Someone said earlier also that you want to pick your moderators based mainly on their ability to mod. I think that's also the most important thing to consider. Honestly, if you think someone can't control their own emotion about something they moderate, you should be wondering about whether they should moderate at all... not whether you need someone to 'balance things'.

Just my $.02

Rick
10-18-2007, 08:24 PM
Views are not specifically the case but if all the board members all see things the same way regardless then there is a lack of diversity.

Lets us look at politics since it was addressed earlier. There is one set of laws and in our country but we have multiple parties out there, each with their own view and interpretation of such laws.

This is what is SUPPOSED to help make this country go, help make it more diverse, different views running the country. It is what makes changes happen.

Unfortunately the government is corrupt and thus the system doesn't work as intended but it is how it is supposed to work.

Now I am not saying this board is corrupt in any way, I do believe that intentions are pure and sincere but if there is one general view looking at the rules and the interpretation of them then how can a true and fair judgment be made?

There have been numerous times on the site that I have seen circumstances that I viewed as against policy or not against policy and they were circumstances the board went another direction.

So is that meaning my direction is wrong and the boards direction is right or does it just mean that I see things differently?

I personally don't vote, haven't since I was 18 as I don't feel my vote matters, they do what ever the hell they want in the government anyway, and I also don't feel that if I made any objections to things on the site here that it would matter as well due to I see things differently sometimes.

I am not saying that like the gov, that the board doesn't care what we think, just that most of the board come from one like mind, and any different view will always be different and decided against.

I am not specifically pointing to any one circumstance. There has been some involving me in the past, some not involving me that I have talked to others about, and some that I have not mentioned at all.

But I do agree there is not enough diversity as well, again not due to people all need to follow the same rules so it matters not about diversity but due again that there will be different view points about said rules.

Hope I am not pissing people off with this, was not my intention just a view point I have. Not meant as an insult to anyone just trying to point out how different opinions can be beneficial.

Rick.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-18-2007, 08:39 PM
Rick - based on some of your points you just made, feel free to pm a mod if you feel something is not right, or if you want clarification, or if you feel a post is outside of the Guidelines, report it.

Mods are here to help.

Buff
10-18-2007, 09:04 PM
So, as I said, let's get specific here because I'm not going to have much
patience with vague allusions.

Give me some examples. SPECIFIC examples.

And if you see something about me, don't leave me out of it.

-----

Ok, today, my post in a thread pertaining to sexuality was edited because I said that I thought people would be masturbating in the streets if society would allow. It was edited out. I was not being obscene, or lude, I was simply stating an opinion. I used the scientific term, I didn't use slang or any lude references...

It was edited because someone found that to be offensive.

Regardless of who originally found it offensive and complained-- A Moderator (TopScribe in this instance) ultimately had to make the final decision as to whether it was offensive or not... I feel like the only person who would be offended by my referencing masturbation would be a conservative christian. I don't mean any offense by that, I realize I am stereotyping a bit, but I honestly don't know why else someone would be offended by that term.

Apparently, that is a violation of Rule #4 (because I don't know what other rule it could violate)-- "No use of obscene language, photos, links to obscene language or photos, or anything that would be considered offensive"

What's offensive to some is benign to others-- This is an instance where diversity and multiple viewpoints might have provided better perspective.

topscribe
10-18-2007, 09:19 PM
Ok, today, my post in a thread pertaining to sexuality was edited because I said that I thought people would be masturbating in the streets if society would allow. It was edited out. I was not being obscene, or lude, I was simply stating an opinion. I used the scientific term, I didn't use slang or any lude references...

It was edited because someone found that to be offensive.

Regardless of who originally found it offensive and complained-- A Moderator (TopScribe in this instance) ultimately had to make the final decision as to whether it was offensive or not... I feel like the only person who would be offended by my referencing masturbation would be a conservative christian. I don't mean any offense by that, I realize I am stereotyping a bit, but I honestly don't know why else someone would be offended by that term.

Apparently, that is a violation of Rule #4 (because I don't know what other rule it could violate)-- "No use of obscene language, photos, links to obscene language or photos, or anything that would be considered offensive"

What's offensive to some is benign to others-- This is an instance where diversity and multiple viewpoints might have provided better perspective.

Thank you for that. Now we're getting somewhere. You are now showing
the reason that led me to admire you on the other board.

My deletion of your terminology had nothing to do with my stance or beliefs.
Sometimes I have to delete something, even when I would have ignored it,
were it entirely up to me. As I related to you, I did so because of complaints.
Now, looking back, I believe what I should have done is to PM you and
discuss it with you instead of just going and deleting it. For this, I
apologize. But please do not think for a minute that this had anything to do
with my own concept of what is appropriate and what is not.

I have, a time or two, undeleted something I had deleted after the poster
appealed to me. I left this be, because you said to me in a PM that it was
no big thing to you. Anyway, again I apologize for the way I handled it.

-----

Tned
10-18-2007, 10:03 PM
I have a problem with the advisory board.

Would you care to elaborate?

I chose to setup the advisory board, so this forum wouldn't be like most, if not all, others. In most forums, since I am paying the bills, I would lay down the law. That's how it is at the mane, BM (Steve representing the folks paying the bills) and every other forum I frequent.

Is the system perfect? Probably not. However, my goal was to do a MUCH better job of letting the community decide on the direction and future of the board, rather than just implementing my opinions/beliefs (and as anyone that has read my longwinded posts on BM know, I am VERY opinionated).

So, I would like to hear why you have a problem with the board, not to argue with you about it or convince you that you're wrong, but instead to keep putting my money where my mouth is and invite discussion on what we (forums, board, mods, etc.) can do to continuosly do a better job of making this a great community that is driven by the members.

--

Seperate issue, not related to Lex's quoted post.

I (and I think the other members of the advisory board would agree) believe the advisory board needs to represent the overall wishes and desires of the board, and do what is in the best interest of the board. However, we are not going to change the makeup of the board, in terms of their personal belief's, 'just' to address a 'quota'.

There were a small group of us that worked hard to get this board going. It is natural that that group would form the core of the board management (advisory board and moderators). Initially, most of us were doing double duty, members of the board and moderators, now no moderators vote on the advisory board. Over time, moderators and board members will come and go, and as new ones are added, hopefully they are a representative sampling of the board as a whole. However, the primary factor in selecting a person will never be because the person is a liberal, conservative, christian, woman, minority, muslim, man, etc. In other words, people are going to be chosen based on believing they can do a good job, first and foremost. In time, diversity should come naturally, but the question is whether or not it is in the board's best interest to 'force' it.

As has been stated in other threads, moderator's threads have been modded, just like other poster's threads have been modded. We are a small board that is still a week or two away from being a month old. We are all learning how to manage a board, moderate, etc. We have made mistakes, and we will make more, we are human.

I will say now that it is important to take an active role. I personally think the conversation in this thread is taking an active role, so I thank those of you who have voiced your opinions. However, be careful not to simply say "xxxxx is wrong", "Broncosforums should have more xxxxx". The world is full of people that can point out what is wrong, but there are far fewer people that invest the time and energy into looking for solutions.

So, that means if you see a problem post, report it. We can't read every post, so it is your 'responsibility' to be part of the process. If you see a mod taking an action that you think is wrong, then either report the post in which it was done, and I promise you the mods will have an objective conversation amongst themselves about it (while I don't mod, I do view the moderator's discussion/reported posts forum). If you don't feel comfortable for whatever reason reporting it to the mods, or feel they didn't listen, then pass it on to a board member (TxBronc, KCLady, DogFish, Kapaibro, tned) and we will look into it.

lex
10-20-2007, 11:15 AM
OK, in light of what has been discussed in this thread, youd think one of the mods would exercise better judgment and be more aware of what hes doing. Instead, it just emboldened him to go out of his way to drive confrontation and in the process further unearthing himself as a hyopocrite. Maybe, it wouldnt matter if there was more diversity as someone has clearly run amok.

Jody
10-20-2007, 05:23 PM
OK, in light of what has been discussed in this thread, youd think one of the mods would exercise better judgment and be more aware of what hes doing. Instead, it just emboldened him to go out of his way to drive confrontation and in the process further unearthing himself as a hyopocrite. Maybe, it wouldnt matter if there was more diversity as someone has clearly run amok.

Your point about diversity has not fallen upon deaf ears, lex. I believe like you, and understood the point you were trying to make throughout this thread. If you are a poster, and you do not feel there are members on either the advisory board and/or the mod staff that represent a little of everyone who may be members (a younger mod, an older mod, a conservative mod, a liberal mod, etc), that you lose faith in the entire idea of an unbias advisory board. I do not find you bringing that up as offensive, but reasonable and appropriate. I'm sorry to see it got blown way out of proportion, and it did.

What's clear to staff, may not be as clear to posters. Perhaps it should be discussed with a little more detail on what should NOT be brought up in this forum, when/where to utilize the advisory board, etc. This forum is presented as a place to bring up anything that a poster believes he wants to discuss. I would think that should be embraced. Well, that's how I envisioned how it was explained originally to people in general when the board got up and running. :whoknows:

I don't like people 'attacking' mods either, but I thought lex did a great job of presenting his case in here, and with restraint of anger as well.

TXBRONC
10-20-2007, 05:49 PM
Your point about diversity has not fallen upon deaf ears, lex. I believe like you, and understood the point you were trying to make throughout this thread. If you are a poster, and you do not feel there are members on either the advisory board and/or the mod staff that represent a little of everyone who may be members (a younger mod, an older mod, a conservative mod, a liberal mod, etc), that you lose faith in the entire idea of an unbias advisory board. I do not find you bringing that up as offensive, but reasonable and appropriate. I'm sorry to see it got blown way out of proportion, and it did.

What's clear to staff, may not be as clear to posters. Perhaps it should be discussed with a little more detail on what should NOT be brought up in this forum, when/where to utilize the advisory board, etc. This forum is presented as a place to bring up anything that a poster believes he wants to discuss. I would think that should be embraced. Well, that's how I envisioned how it was explained originally to people in general when the board got up and running. :whoknows:

I don't like people 'attacking' mods either, but I thought lex did a great job of presenting his case in here, and with restraint of anger as well.

Fantastic post HW. Thank you.

Tned
10-20-2007, 06:01 PM
Your point about diversity has not fallen upon deaf ears, lex. I believe like you, and understood the point you were trying to make throughout this thread. If you are a poster, and you do not feel there are members on either the advisory board and/or the mod staff that represent a little of everyone who may be members (a younger mod, an older mod, a conservative mod, a liberal mod, etc), that you lose faith in the entire idea of an unbias advisory board. I do not find you bringing that up as offensive, but reasonable and appropriate. I'm sorry to see it got blown way out of proportion, and it did.

What's clear to staff, may not be as clear to posters. Perhaps it should be discussed with a little more detail on what should NOT be brought up in this forum, when/where to utilize the advisory board, etc. This forum is presented as a place to bring up anything that a poster believes he wants to discuss. I would think that should be embraced. Well, that's how I envisioned how it was explained originally to people in general when the board got up and running. :whoknows:

I don't like people 'attacking' mods either, but I thought lex did a great job of presenting his case in here, and with restraint of anger as well.

This thread got heated very quickly. Apparently, largely due to some events in P&R and PM exchanges between the mods and some posters in this thread that the rest of us were not involved in.

I think you are 100% correct, and we need to make sure everyone is on the same page (forum members, advisory board and mods) as to what and how things should be posted in this forum.

The reason I implemented the advisory board approch to make decisions, was because I did not think a single person should make all the decisions for an online community, regardless of who is paying the bills. It certainly has been very frustrating at times and had its 'bumps in the road', and decisions are slower and harder to make by committee than by an individual. However, I still think the concept is the correct one and hope that people have the patience to realize that we are all learning as we go.

I believe that feedback and discussion by all forum members is critical if we are really going to be community driven, and I (and I believe the rest of the advisory board and mods) welcome the feedback and discussion.

topscribe
10-20-2007, 09:19 PM
Your point about diversity has not fallen upon deaf ears, lex. I believe like you, and understood the point you were trying to make throughout this thread. If you are a poster, and you do not feel there are members on either the advisory board and/or the mod staff that represent a little of everyone who may be members (a younger mod, an older mod, a conservative mod, a liberal mod, etc), that you lose faith in the entire idea of an unbias advisory board. I do not find you bringing that up as offensive, but reasonable and appropriate. I'm sorry to see it got blown way out of proportion, and it did.

What's clear to staff, may not be as clear to posters. Perhaps it should be discussed with a little more detail on what should NOT be brought up in this forum, when/where to utilize the advisory board, etc. This forum is presented as a place to bring up anything that a poster believes he wants to discuss. I would think that should be embraced. Well, that's how I envisioned how it was explained originally to people in general when the board got up and running. :whoknows:

I don't like people 'attacking' mods either, but I thought lex did a great job of presenting his case in here, and with restraint of anger as well.

Anytime a person starts complaining about the system but refuses to use
the system, my ears go deaf. Use the system first and see whether it is
going to work. Then, after using the system, one does not like what has
come of it, then one has basis for complaint. Until then, one does not.
As the now worn out saying goes, it's not rocket science.

I was dealing with someone who complained and complained for several
days how he was done wrong, and all during that time, I was encouraging
him to take it to the Advisory Board for a fair and objective evaluation. But
he refused. When you bring a case against a system, and you have refused
to use that system, you have no case. Simple.

-----

lex
10-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Anytime a person starts complaining about the system but refuses to use
the system, my ears go deaf. Use the system first and see whether it is
going to work. Then, after using the system, one does not like what has
come of it, then one has basis for complaint. Until then, one does not.
As the now worn out saying goes, it's not rocket science.

I was dealing with someone who complained and complained for several
days how he was done wrong, and all during that time, I was encouraging
him to take it to the Advisory Board for a fair and objective evaluation. But
he refused. When you bring a case against a system, and you have refused
to use that system, you have no case. Simple.

-----

I disagree.

topscribe
10-20-2007, 09:45 PM
I disagree.

Good to see you back.

Now let's see the good poster I said I knew you could be. :smile:

----

Watchthemiddle
10-23-2007, 11:34 AM
Its good to see this topic with a thread. I brought this very idea up about a week ago in another thread and thought it was important to discuss and am now glad to see it discussed out in the open.

I have no solution to this, :whoknows: but like I believed a week ago, believe now that diversity would make the mods jobs easier and will look out in their best interests in the long run. Members could no longer play the "favoristism" card and continue to blame mods for treating them unfairly.

I know we have an advisory board to run too if we have a problem so maybe that is adequate for now. :ponder:

Kapaibro
10-23-2007, 11:54 AM
If anyone feels that dogfish and I don't represent a younger more liberal attitude, then that is unfortunate.

I for one know that Top, whilst not always being in agreement with my points of view, still respects my ability to bring a good discussion to the table.

I am known as a bit of a devil's advocate for pretty much every topic around, so really, you will get a fair shake of the stick from me.

And I feel safe in saying that dogfish is that kind of person too (except if you believe in drinking low-grade beer, then you're on your own!).

topscribe
10-23-2007, 12:28 PM
If anyone feels that dogfish and I don't represent a younger more liberal attitude, then that is unfortunate.

I for one know that Top, whilst not always being in agreement with my points of view, still respects my ability to bring a good discussion to the table.

I am known as a bit of a devil's advocate for pretty much every topic around, so really, you will get a fair shake of the stick from me.

And I feel safe in saying that dogfish is that kind of person too (except if you believe in drinking low-grade beer, then you're on your own!).

Let me make it clear that Kap and Dogfish were not chosen specifically for
their religious/political orientation or what part of the cross-section they
would represent. They were chosen by the Board of Advisors because they
were (first) among the best candidates for the position and represent the
younger set. We are fortunate in that they not only are competent, but do
add a fresh, youthful presence to the Board.

And this tired old bag of bones (me) no longer has a vote on the Board of
Advisors, so now the older generation is not represented. Therefore, I find
myself forced to register this formal complaint and demand that Uncle Buck
be put on the Board since he can represent anybody born since the end of
the War of 1812. :D

-----

Rick
10-23-2007, 12:49 PM
Really to best cover the board we need to have 50 mods at least to cover each state. Some states are more red neck, some more yuppie, some pretty conservative,etc.

But while we are at it we need to have 1 man and one woman from each state. Men and women frankly see many things different and need to best cover that.

On top of that need to have the races covered. So man and women, and really needs to be old and young, or each race from each state.

Religion needs to be covered. So need to have man and woman, old and young, each race, each religion.

Better cover the handicap as well while your at it, can't be too careful mind you.

Cover all that and should be fine. Sure hope I am not forgetting someone :(

On a more serious note, yes I do believe there should be more diversity I think it could go along ways by really even knowing who these people are.

As far as I know, besides a few scattering posts here and there mentioning the team members there is no real indication of the mod/adviser teams.

I think there should be a stickified thread mentioning the team members of each so people would know who they are. There may very well be a more diverse squad...and we don't even know about them.

Kapaibro
10-23-2007, 01:04 PM
Really to best cover the board we need to have 50 mods at least to cover each state. Some states are more red neck, some more yuppie, some pretty conservative,etc.

But while we are at it we need to have 1 man and one woman from each state. Men and women frankly see many things different and need to best cover that.

On top of that need to have the races covered. So man and women, and really needs to be old and young, or each race from each state.

Religion needs to be covered. So need to have man and woman, old and young, each race, each religion.

Better cover the handicap as well while your at it, can't be too careful mind you.

Cover all that and should be fine. Sure hope I am not forgetting someone :(

On a more serious note, yes I do believe there should be more diversity I think it could go along ways by really even knowing who these people are.

As far as I know, besides a few scattering posts here and there mentioning the team members there is no real indication of the mod/adviser teams.

I think there should be a stickified thread mentioning the team members of each so people would know who they are. There may very well be a more diverse squad...and we don't even know about them.

What about Non-US members? ;)

Rick
10-23-2007, 01:08 PM
crap that just opens up a huge can there...

topscribe
10-23-2007, 02:02 PM
Well, I'll tell you what. Right now, there are five members on the Board of
Advisors: Tnedator, TXBronc, KCLady, Kapaibro, and Dogfish. As kap very
succinctly and eloquently pointed out, she and Dogfish very capably represent
the younger, more "liberal" set here. Tned is not exactly and old man, and
KClady is kind of a "tweener": neither overly conservative nor overly liberal.
I believe, therefore, they represent the cross-section about as well as can
be expected for only five individuals.

Now here's the deal: If we are still unhappy about that and cannot agree that
this is a better arrangement than can be found anywhere else, then what we
can do is dispense with this system and put it back in the hands of Tned to
make up all the rules and do what he so desires with this message board.
After all, he pays all the bills, and he is the one who started the board.

Of course, Tned does not want that situation, or he would have done it.
But what I am saying is that if this is not better than we can find elsewhere,
then we need to go elsewhere. However, I cannot find such a utopian deal,
so here is where I am. :noidea:

As I very appropriately pointed out earlier in this thread, use the system
first, see how it works for you, then complain if if comes up short. But I am
loathe to create a big controversy over a situation that does not exist.

-----

Rick
10-23-2007, 02:09 PM
No need to get snippy TOP, no one in the last several posts mentioned anything they needed to bring to the board right now.

I think you are kinda over reacting there a fair bit.

All I mentioned is it would be nice to have a roster posted somewhere so that we would know WHO to go to at anytime. I know most will not be reading every little post to see who the members are.

Lighten up a little.

topscribe
10-23-2007, 02:17 PM
No need to get snippy TOP, no one in the last several posts mentioned anything they needed to bring to the board right now.

I think you are kinda over reacting there a fair bit.

All I mentioned is it would be nice to have a roster posted somewhere so that we would know WHO to go to at anytime. I know most will not be reading every little post to see who the members are.

Lighten up a little.
Please don't take it like that. I did not address you or your post directly. You
think I am over-reacting because you did not read my comment as it was.

By no means do I want to discourage positive discussion on how we might
be able to improve the message board. That is what this Town Hall forum is
for. I only want to discourage any negative comments about imagined
circumstances as to what someone perceives as wrong with the board.

But I was not addressing you personally at all. Just generically putting my
ideas down here. I assume I have the right to do that, too? :noidea:

-----

Rick
10-23-2007, 02:24 PM
Sorry, I was pretty much the last poster for a good pit here and just assumed you were refering to my posts.

Perhaps I over reacted a bit.

Watchthemiddle
10-23-2007, 02:57 PM
Really to best cover the board we need to have 50 mods at least to cover each state. Some states are more red neck, some more yuppie, some pretty conservative,etc.

But while we are at it we need to have 1 man and one woman from each state. Men and women frankly see many things different and need to best cover that.

On top of that need to have the races covered. So man and women, and really needs to be old and young, or each race from each state.

Religion needs to be covered. So need to have man and woman, old and young, each race, each religion.

Better cover the handicap as well while your at it, can't be too careful mind you.

Cover all that and should be fine. Sure hope I am not forgetting someone :(

On a more serious note, yes I do believe there should be more diversity I think it could go along ways by really even knowing who these people are.

As far as I know, besides a few scattering posts here and there mentioning the team members there is no real indication of the mod/adviser teams.

I think there should be a stickified thread mentioning the team members of each so people would know who they are. There may very well be a more diverse squad...and we don't even know about them.

Why do we need mods? Or an advisory board? :confused:

We have 200+ members. Why do we need anyone but OURSELVES advising each other.

How come there aren't 200+ mods and 200+ advisory members? This board is so small that that can actually happen.

Kind of like a small town. We patrol ourselves....:elefant:

Tned
10-23-2007, 05:24 PM
All I mentioned is it would be nice to have a roster posted somewhere so that we would know WHO to go to at anytime. I know most will not be reading every little post to see who the members are.


I have been negligent in this regard, and will remedy that. Since the board reconstituted itself and added several members, I had intended to make an announcement to that effect and failed to do that. You make a very good point in this regard.

TXBRONC
10-23-2007, 10:15 PM
I have been negligent in this regard, and will remedy that. Since the board reconstituted itself and added several members, I had intended to make an announcement to that effect and failed to do that. You make a very good point in this regard.

Keep this up and the board of directors will have to dock your pay. :tsk: :laugh:

Tned
10-24-2007, 06:33 AM
Keep this up and the board of directors will have to dock your pay. :tsk: :laugh:

Nooooo! Please, give me a second chance :sad:

Requiem / The Dagda
10-25-2007, 04:33 PM
As much as I like Kap and Dogfish as posters, and I'd consider myself to be on "good terms" with them, I do not see how they represent the "younger, liberal" people on the board. Different from some of the others running the ship? Probably. Representative of me? Give me an example where they can represent "me" - if you could even define who I am without asking questions. If you want someone representing younger people, get a younger person.

Tned
10-25-2007, 06:06 PM
As much as I like Kap and Dogfish as posters, and I'd consider myself to be on "good terms" with them, I do not see how they represent the "younger, liberal" people on the board. Different from some of the others running the ship? Probably. Representative of me? Give me an example where they can represent "me" - if you could even define who I am without asking questions.

Is that even possible? I can't think of another person like you!!! ;)

j/k Seriously though. You have just described EXACTLY why we cannot add people to the board or as moderators that are intended to be 'just like' a subset of the board. The combinations are endless. Some would argue that it is impossible, and that EVERY single person would need to be a mod and on the board. Even if you don't take it to that extreme, where do you draw the line?


White Conservative Males under 20
White Conservative males between 21 and 35
White Conservative males between 36 and 50
White conservative males older than 51
Minority liberal females under 20
Minority liberal females between 21 and 35
Minority liberal females between 36 and 50
...
Liberal college students living in the south
Liberal college students living in the north
Conservative college students....
and so on
and so on


The point is that we can't put anyone on the board that is 'representative' of YOU, unless we put YOU on the board, which is the same as all but the few people actually on the board. However, we CAN and do have people on the board that can and will do their best to listen to input and feedback from all members of the board. Will they fit the demographics of every sub group? Nope. It's not possible.

Escobar
10-25-2007, 06:09 PM
jrwiz is a hell of a moderator........

Denver Native (Carol)
10-25-2007, 06:46 PM
As tnedator pointed out, about the only way we could cover all opinions, all age groups, gender, all religious and political opinions, etc. would be for every member to be a mod, and every member would be on the advisory board, because regardless what age group, gender, religious, anti-religious or political views all of the members fall under, opinions do and will vary even within groups. Of course, it is not possible for every member to be a mod and be on the advisory board, so the only way to regulate this is for all members to post within the boundaries of the Rules/Guidelines posted on this Board.

Mike
10-26-2007, 08:25 AM
As much as I like Kap and Dogfish as posters, and I'd consider myself to be on "good terms" with them, I do not see how they represent the "younger, liberal" people on the board. Different from some of the others running the ship? Probably. Representative of me? Give me an example where they can represent "me" - if you could even define who I am without asking questions. If you want someone representing younger people, get a younger person.

I don't think that there is a requirement to represent a certain group.

It is more important that they are unbiased in their opinions and do the job without favoritism. I believe that all the members on the board are objective and responsible members who do not show favoritism. That is what should be looked for in a panel, not people to represent each groups personal beliefs.

SR
10-26-2007, 09:15 AM
As much as I like Kap and Dogfish as posters, and I'd consider myself to be on "good terms" with them, I do not see how they represent the "younger, liberal" people on the board. Different from some of the others running the ship? Probably. Representative of me? Give me an example where they can represent "me" - if you could even define who I am without asking questions. If you want someone representing younger people, get a younger person.

I was that "younger person"...but I didn't like moderating very much.

Tned
10-26-2007, 09:34 AM
I'm starting to feel old :sad:

SR
10-26-2007, 09:37 AM
I'm starting to feel old :sad:

You know the cliche..."you're only as old as you feel"...

Nomad
10-26-2007, 09:54 AM
Tned, give one of the (college) kids a chance! Being that BBF brought the issue up, let him get on the board. You can always fire him.

SR
10-26-2007, 10:06 AM
I'd be a mod again given the opportunity. Granted, I'm no college kid, but I'm the age...23...

Tned
10-26-2007, 12:40 PM
Tned, give one of the (college) kids a chance! Being that BBF brought the issue up, let him get on the board. You can always fire him.

First, it's not my call alone. We have 5 people on the board at the moment (I am going to detail who, how, what this weekend for those that are unclear), but 7 is the ultimate number we will be getting back up to. So, therefore, I am only 1/5th of the decision making body when it comes to future additions.

Second, "you can always fire him" doesn't really work. We have all seen how much turmoil can be caused on message boards when 'hard feelings' occur. So, when it comes to mods or advisory board members, one factor that really should be considered is 'how' likely it is that the person will have to be fired or asked to resign. We should try and avoid that if at all possible.

So, I am sure in time we will wind up with a "college kid" on the board, the only question is when that time will be. Maybe next week. Maybe next year. I don't really know.

Requiem / The Dagda
10-26-2007, 03:49 PM
They don't necessarily have to represent "me" - it was more of a generalization. If you want some diversity and someone who can represent young people, hire someone who is young (but capable of the job) instead of just saying, "Well, we think that a couple of older posters represent younger people pretty well."

This isn't me pushing for myself or anyone else younger to get hired, but it sure makes a lot of sense. I don't necessarily see how it could hurt. It's worth a shot. You know mostly how I feel, since we've responded back and forth through PM.

In conclusion - just between me and you T. . . I just think there could be a lot done to switch some things up. I'm sure things are in the process, but there are the same mistakes being made over and over again that do get old and could really get cleaned up. Especially when it comes to mistakes that are being made by those on staff now (and I don't know what's done about them), but are hurting the abilities of others who have thrown their name in the hat to even have a chance to help the message board out.

At any case, no matter what - this is all a Catch 22.

Requiem / The Dagda
10-26-2007, 03:50 PM
I was that "younger person"...but I didn't like moderating very much.

You filled the quota quite well friend. ;)

Tned
10-26-2007, 06:34 PM
This isn't me pushing for myself or anyone else younger to get hired, but it sure makes a lot of sense.

Lol, clearly not between you and me --->Tned looks around and sees post in open forum<--- ;)


In conclusion - just between me and you T. . . I just think there could be a lot done to switch some things up. I'm sure things are in the process, but there are the same mistakes being made over and over again that do get old and could really get cleaned up. Especially when it comes to mistakes that are being made by those on staff now (and I don't know what's done about them), but are hurting the abilities of others who have thrown their name in the hat to even have a chance to help the message board out.

At any case, no matter what - this is all a Catch 22.

I can say beyond any shadow of a doubt very little to nothing is being done about the 'same mistakes being made over and over', because I for one have no clue what you are talking about, so therefore I am guessing the rest of advisory board doesn't know either.

If you feel the advdisory board or mods (not sure what you are talking about) are making the same mistakes over and over, then you need to forward that info to the advisory board so we can look into it.

SR
10-27-2007, 02:40 AM
You filled the quota quite well friend. ;)

Why thank you Chris.

It just took it's toll on me not being able to feely and openly express myself. I didn't want to not be involved in discussions and want to be able to say what I want without worrying about the image I had to uphold.

I'm sure tned understands.:D

Tned
10-27-2007, 12:47 PM
I'm sure tned understands.:D

Yep. I think I do.

AFGAHNI_BATTLE_DONKEY
11-30-2007, 12:38 AM
we need to start interviewing minorities for mod jobs.

Escobar
11-30-2007, 12:40 AM
we need to start interviewing minorities for mod jobs.

hahahaha


yea right...


co-sign...

topscribe
11-30-2007, 12:44 AM
we need to start interviewing minorities for mod jobs.

I'm a Jew (albeit a Christian Jew).

There, we have a start. :beer:

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topscribe
11-30-2007, 12:46 AM
I'm starting to feel old :sad:

YOU are feeling old? You know how you just made ME feel? :Cry:

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SR
11-30-2007, 02:01 AM
we need to start interviewing minorities for mod jobs.

I'm a minority.

topscribe
11-30-2007, 02:06 AM
I'm a minority.

Why, because you see red?

Hell, my wife sees red . . .























. . . every time she looks at me. :moony:



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SR
11-30-2007, 02:08 AM
Why, because you see red?


I'm a white guy smack dab in the middle of the Middle East. I'm the definition of a minority.

topscribe
11-30-2007, 02:09 AM
I'm a white guy smack dab in the middle of the
Middle East. I'm the definition of a minority.

Small minority, carrying a big stick. :woot:


Thank you for being in that minority. :beer:



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SR
11-30-2007, 02:27 AM
Small minority, carrying a big stick. :woot:


Thank you for being in that minority. :beer:



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Big stick indeed. ;)

Lonestar
11-30-2007, 03:07 AM
Big stick indeed. ;)


Quit bragging or your stick could get you killed..

SR
11-30-2007, 03:09 AM
Quit bragging or your stick could get you killed..

LOL! Well, LOL if you intended it to mean what I think you meant.

topscribe
11-30-2007, 03:09 AM
LOL! Well, LOL if you intended it to mean what I think you meant.

All right, that's enough out of both of you.

Else I'm going to have to start moderating. :laugh:

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SR
11-30-2007, 03:12 AM
Yes, diversity amongst moderators is good. Diversify them.

topscribe
11-30-2007, 03:14 AM
Yes, diversity amongst moderators is good. Diversify them.

I'm diversified. I'm so diversified I don't know what I'm going to do next. :laugh:

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SR
11-30-2007, 03:15 AM
Hm. Diversity. Tastes good with A1.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-30-2007, 03:22 AM
Let MUG be a moderator.

SR
11-30-2007, 03:24 AM
Let MUG be a moderator.

I giggled.

topscribe
11-30-2007, 03:30 AM
Let MUG be a moderator.

:faint:

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Tned
11-30-2007, 08:07 AM
we need to start interviewing minorities for mod jobs.


hahahaha


yea right...


co-sign...

Not sure if this was meant as a dead-pan joke, based on the title of the thread, or if it was meant to be serious. Not knowing which, I will go with the assumption that it was mean as a serious statement.

With the exception of one or two people that have stated their race/ethnicity, I don't think most of us even know who on this message baord, or others, are minorities. In many cases, it is virtualy impossible to tell who are men and who are women, which is why it isn't that uncommon to see an indignant "I'm not a 'he'" type comment.

As the forum grows and we have a larger pool of posters to choose from in terms of moderator and Advisory Board comments, I am sure some diversity will happen naturally. However, I think it is unlikely that the Advisory Board is going to start questioning people as to their sex, race, religious beliefs, etc. prior to considering that person for either job.

SR
11-30-2007, 08:20 AM
tned...you mean to tell me that broncosforums.com is not an equal opportunity employer? No affirmative action? Blasphemer.;)

Tned
11-30-2007, 08:34 AM
tned...you mean to tell me that broncosforums.com is not an equal opportunity employer? No affirmative action? Blasphemer.;)

Setting aside whether or not we should be (I wouldn't touch that with a 50' pole), it is nearly impossible to do on an anonymous message board.

Lonestar
11-30-2007, 03:22 PM
tned...you mean to tell me that broncos forums.com is not an equal opportunity employer? No affirmative action? Blasphemer.;)

No one to my knowledge is employed..

topscribe
11-30-2007, 04:38 PM
No one to my knowledge is employed..

Oh yeah, we're employed all right . . .



It's just that the pay isn't very good. :laugh:



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Lonestar
11-30-2007, 04:39 PM
Oh yeah, we're employed all right . . .



It's just that the pay isn't very good. :laugh:



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Your getting paid? What it is by the deletetions or posts cleaned up..

topscribe
11-30-2007, 04:47 PM
Your getting paid? What it is by the deletetions or posts cleaned up..

I don't know how much the pay is, but I'm having an awful time collecting my check. :lol:

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Lonestar
11-30-2007, 04:52 PM
I don't know how much the pay is, but I'm having an awful time collecting my check. :lol:

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At least you got one all I got was a lousy yellow salute..

Requiem / The Dagda
11-30-2007, 07:05 PM
Cool, JR is the man in the yellow hat from Curious George.

tubby
10-23-2008, 01:07 PM
What? Once a year you lobby to be a Mod?

Disgusting...... Brush your teeth.

atwater27
10-23-2008, 01:38 PM
Here, there is none.

Discuss.

Please close this thread. it is among the worst ever. TIA

Traveler
10-23-2008, 02:04 PM
Please close this thread. it is among the worst ever. TIA

Glad you aren't a mod.:tsk:

atwater27
10-23-2008, 03:06 PM
Glad you aren't a mod.:tsk:

Me too. :coffee:

DallasChief
10-23-2008, 03:20 PM
Glad you aren't a mod.:tsk:

Me too. :coffee:

atwater27
10-23-2008, 03:25 PM
:coffee:Me too.

Zweems56
10-23-2008, 03:26 PM
wow dc.. im' sorry but that is .....******* annoying

DallasChief
10-23-2008, 03:30 PM
wow dc.. im' sorry but that is .....******* annoying

Note. :coffee:

NameUsedBefore
10-23-2008, 04:16 PM
My mind exploded on page 8.

topscribe
10-23-2008, 05:22 PM
:coffee:Me too.

Do I detect multiple personality disorder?

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