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Shazam!
04-01-2009, 12:56 AM
I didn't mean to start another "Chill out" Thread, but I saw a point in all this.

I am upset that we lost our QB, but in the flip side of that I say good riddance. For all his talent, he doesn't yet deserve the treatment he wants. McDaniels messed this up, but Cutler did all he can to screw Denver from the second Shanahan was deservedly dismissed. He is not bigger than the franchise. He isnt John Elway. He certainly isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. He isn't even Kurt Warner, some would say isn't even Matt Hasselbeck... and some even said Jake Plummer. He wasn't even the best athlete on the team (Champ)... Sure, Cutler may succeed, then on the other hand, Denver may be better off without him.

I know everyone wants to kill McDaniels right about now, but he knows QBs. He will get the guy he wants from the start to run his complicated Offense, and that may be a good thing for the Broncos as a Team going into the Season with a guy leading the team who knows how to run the Offense from Day 1. I am still not ready to condemn McDaniels because Shanahan clearly had to go and he comes from a winning organization. He's seen what it takes to win as Shanahan did with the 49ers. The similarities between Shanahan's arrival and McDaniels are eerily similar., arguably the worst defense in the League in 94' and '08.

Here is my point and I think it is a bright spot for our new QB, whoever he is-

For the first time in 10 years, the next Broncos QB doesn't have to live up to John Elway...

They have to live up to Jay Cutler. That is a tremendous weight off the shoulders of the incoming QB. The last two Denver QBs were Plummer and Cutler with 1 Playoff win between them, and a lot of mistakes that cost the team, regardless of defense (Ed Hochuli anyone? Cutler almost cost Denver that game they had no business winning.) For all of Cutler's stats, that's all they were. Stats.

If Cutler doesn't perform at a high level wherever he goes and Denver becomes a contender again, everyone will forget about this and McDaniels will become a genius and a savior. If he flounders, Cutler succeeds, and the Broncos continue their downward spiral into 2010? We'll get a new Coach and/or a new QB.

Denver27og
04-01-2009, 12:57 AM
mannnn... shut da ffff up

honz
04-01-2009, 12:59 AM
mannnn... shut da ffff up

Tremendous insight. :beer:

ikillz0mbies
04-01-2009, 01:01 AM
I didn't mean to start another "Chill out" Thread, but I saw a point in all this.

I am upset that we lost our QB, but in the flip side of that I say good riddance. For all his talent, he doesn't yet deserve the treatment he wants. McDaniels messed this up, but Cutler did all he can to screw Denver from the second Shanahan was deservedly dismissed. He is not bigger than the franchise. He isnt John Elway. He certainly isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. He isn't even Kurt Warner, some would say isn't even Matt Hasselbeck... and some even said Jake Plummer. He wasn't even the best athlete on the team (Champ)... Sure, Cutler may succeed, then on the other hand, Denver may be better off without him.

I know everyone wants to kill McDaniels right about now, but he knows QBs. He will get the guy he wants from the start to run his complicated Offense, and that may be a good thing for the Broncos as a Team going into the Season with a guy leading the team who knows how to run the Offense from Day 1. I am still not ready to condemn McDaniels because Shanahan clearly had to go and he comes from a winning organization. He's seen what it takes to win as Shanahan did with the 49ers. The similarities between Shanahan's arrival and McDaniels are eerily similar., arguably the worst defense in the League in 94' and '08.

Here is my point and I think it is a bright spot for our new QB, whoever he is-

For the first time in 10 years, the next Broncos QB doesn't have to live up to John Elway...

They have to live up to Jay Cutler. That is a tremendous weight off the shoulders of the incoming QB. The last two Denver QBs were Plummer and Cutler with 1 Playoff win between them, and a lot of mistakes that cost the team, regardless of defense (Ed Hochuli anyone? Cutler almost cost Denver that game they had no business winning.) For all of Cutler's stats, that's all they were. Stats.

If Cutler doesn't perform at a high level wherever he goes and Denver becomes a contender again, everyone will forget about this and McDaniels will become a genius and a savior. If he flounders, Cutler succeeds, and the Broncos continue their downward spiral into 2010? We'll get a new Coach and/or a new QB.

You make a great point. With this whole Cutler drama, the spotlight is completely off Elway. It is now going to be "Can the Broncos find a QB who is better than Cutler"?

The pressure is off the next Broncos QB who steps behind center. I mean, if that QB has as much poise and confidence that Cutler had, minus all the whining and bad decisions, that QB will be considered a success.

Lonestar
04-01-2009, 01:03 AM
Yo Shazam better get your flame retardant long johns on..

Good post

ikillz0mbies
04-01-2009, 01:06 AM
Cutler Supporters Suicide Count: 40

Cutler Supporters Suicide Count after Shazam's post: 63 and counting.

Shazam!
04-01-2009, 01:06 AM
Here is my point and I think it is a bright spot for our new QB, whoever he is-

For the first time in 10 years, the next Broncos QB doesn't have to live up to John Elway...

Should we be concerned about Cutler's replacement? Yes. However, this is the truth.

Denver27og
04-01-2009, 01:10 AM
Should we be concerned about Cutler's replacement? Yes. However, this is the truth.


so thats the positive spin off this whole entire situation... GREAT our next qb doesnt have to live up to elway.. lets go top 5 pick!!! just want mcdick out of here ASAP

Timmy!
04-01-2009, 01:11 AM
mannnn... shut da ffff up

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/brilliant.jpg

ikillz0mbies
04-01-2009, 01:17 AM
so thats the positive spin off this whole entire situation... GREAT our next qb doesnt have to live up to elway.. lets go top 5 pick!!! just want mcdick out of here ASAP

If McD gets the Broncos 3 Super Bowls and Cutler couldn't lead his new team into the playoffs, you still want McD gone?

CrazyHorse
04-01-2009, 01:34 AM
If Cutler doesn't perform at a high level wherever he goes and Denver becomes a contender again, everyone will forget about this and McDaniels will become a genius and a savior. If he flounders, Cutler succeeds, and the Broncos continue their downward spiral into 2010? We'll get a new Coach and/or a new QB.

I'm willing to bet on the latter.

Northman
04-01-2009, 01:41 AM
So, in one thread Warhorse is crying in his wheaties and blowing smoke up Cutler's ass and in this thread we have shazam blowing smoke up McDaniels ass. Wonderful.

Shazam!
04-01-2009, 01:44 AM
If he flounders, Cutler succeeds, and the Broncos continue their downward spiral into 2010? We'll get a new Coach and/or a new QB.

Did you catch this Northman? I guess not!

I'm just looking at it positively, hence the Thread title. If McD fails and the Broncos suck, then I'll judge him for the product he fields and massacre him for the failure. He hasn't even Coached a game yet. We're gonna get a new QB. This perspective I see is true.

ikillz0mbies
04-01-2009, 01:45 AM
So, in one thread Warhorse is crying in his wheaties and blowing smoke up Cutler's ass and in this thread we have shazam blowing smoke up McDaniels ass. Wonderful.

I'm feeling left out. Who wants to blow smoke up my ass? Anybody?

Northman
04-01-2009, 01:46 AM
I'm feeling left out. Who wants to blow smoke up my ass? Anybody?

I dont know, but im waiting for someone to start a McD and Jay cutler sucks thread. We need one desperately.

ikillz0mbies
04-01-2009, 01:49 AM
I dont know, but im waiting for someone to start a McD and Jay cutler sucks thread. We need one desperately.

That would make this board complete.

WARHORSE
04-01-2009, 01:55 AM
So, in one thread Warhorse is crying in his wheaties and blowing smoke up Cutler's ass and in this thread we have shazam blowing smoke up McDaniels ass. Wonderful.


I prefer you dont mention me in your posts.

Seriously.

honz
04-01-2009, 01:57 AM
I prefer you dont mention me in your posts.

Seriously.

Then you probably shouldn't post on a public forum...;)

WARHORSE
04-01-2009, 02:11 AM
Then you probably shouldn't post on a public forum...;)


Im speaking specifically to him.

Thanks for the insight.;)

Dean
04-01-2009, 05:48 AM
IMO whoever follows Jay will have it much worse than any of his predecessors. Walking on water, making world peace, and winning almost every game won't be enough unless Cutler completely crashes. I think this will fester until it pops in a year or two and a whole new coach and QB are brought in. I think Bowlen better take some iodine suppliments; he is going to catch some of the fallout.

claymore
04-01-2009, 06:04 AM
IMO whoever follows Jay will have it much worse than any of his predecessors. Walking on water, making world peace, and winning almost every game won't be enough unless Cutler completely crashes. I think this will fester until it pops in a year or two and a whole new coach and QB are brought in. I think Bowlen better take some iodine suppliments; he is going to catch some of the fallout.

Back to reality. We just lost a very talented young QB. What we get in return is yet to be seen. The chances on us receiving talent equal to or greater than Cutlers is slim to none.

Bowlen needs to stop taking acid is what he needs to do.

Dirk
04-01-2009, 06:18 AM
I didn't want this to come down to Jay leaving, but since it is going to happen we have to look at it in a positive light or it will just eat us alive! At least those that are fans/supporters of Jay.

All we can hope for is that we get good talent in return/replacement.

I can see where you were trying to go with the start of this thread and kudos for trying to put some warm and fuzzies around everyone.

tomjonesrocks
04-01-2009, 06:25 AM
IMO whoever follows Jay will have it much worse than any of his predecessors. Walking on water, making world peace, and winning almost every game won't be enough unless Cutler completely crashes. I think this will fester until it pops in a year or two and a whole new coach and QB are brought in. I think Bowlen better take some iodine suppliments; he is going to catch some of the fallout.

This could and probably will be a whole lot worse than that. Cutler could play another 13 years. If that includes multiple Pro Bowl appearances, Super Bowl appearances, etc., the pain from this trade will last a undetermined amount of time. No one knows exactly how this will turn out--but the potential is there for this to be the worst mistake in franchise history. It's unfathomable to me that the team is willing to take this risk.

claymore
04-01-2009, 06:28 AM
This could and probably will be a whole lot worse than that. Cutler could play another 13 years. If that includes multiple Pro Bowl appearances, Super Bowl appearances, etc., the pain from this trade will last a undetermined amount of time. No one knows exactly how this will turn out--but the potential is there for this to be the worst mistake in franchise history. It's unfathomable to me that the team is willing to take this risk.

Yeah, its a little different if we had a proven coach and there was a fallout. Gosh damn this is such a stupid gamble.

Dirk
04-01-2009, 06:51 AM
I agree that it is a stupid gamble. But what can they do? I want Jay as much as the next person, but if he isn't going to bleed orange and blue, then I have to unfortunately bid him farewell and hope we get someone of quality in return.

claymore
04-01-2009, 06:55 AM
I agree that it is a stupid gamble. But what can they do? I want Jay as much as the next person, but if he isn't going to bleed orange and blue, then I have to unfortunately bid him farewell and hope we get someone of quality in return.

They can fire McDaniels. Unless we can trade him for a 7th round draft pick or something.

tomjonesrocks
04-01-2009, 07:24 AM
I want Jay as much as the next person, but if he isn't going to bleed orange and blue, then I have to unfortunately bid him farewell and hope we get someone of quality in return.

That is ridiculous. These guys are just employees. What player can you name on the roster that "bleeds orange and blue"? This isn't college football. There is no Broncos equivalent of Tony Gwynn on the roster that I can think of.

As many have mentioned, plenty have teams have shaken off ugly disputes with players and not caved to their trade demands with good success. Denver should have just waited until Cutler could no longer afford to sit out and then hope time healed the wounds. This trade is simply way too ******* risky--teams don't trade 25-year-old Pro Bowl, franchise QBs. It's asinine.

CoachChaz
04-01-2009, 07:29 AM
They can fire McDaniels. Unless we can trade him for a 7th round draft pick or something.

Let's see...we have 2 guys. One has proven successful at coaching, running an offense and manufacturing successful QB's. The other hasn't proven anything.

Yeah...makes sense to fire the only one fo the two that has had any success at all.

Dirk
04-01-2009, 07:39 AM
That is ridiculous. These guys are just employees. What player can you name on the roster that "bleeds orange and blue"? This isn't college football. There is no Broncos equivalent of Tony Gwynn on the roster that I can think of.

As many have mentioned, plenty have teams have shaken off ugly disputes with players and not caved to their trade demands with good success. Denver should have just waited until Cutler could no longer afford to sit out and then hope time healed the wounds. This trade is simply way too ******* risky--teams don't trade 25-year-old Pro Bowl, franchise QBs. It's asinine.


I agree that you DON'T trade your franchise QB! I didn't want this to happen!

But, look at it this way. Would you rather have a player that no matter what, wants to make sure HIS game doesn't faulter, HIS team has the best chance to win, HE makes the effort to show up and learn the NEW offense and is conditioning himself.

Or would you rather have a good/great (objective) QB that is only showing up because he is contractually obligated and doesn't care about winning because in the back of his mind he could be thinking....if I don't play well, then maybe I can get my trade? I'm not saying Jay would be that way, but his not answering calls from Bowlen or McD kind of shows that he doesn't care about the team like he said he does/did.

And yes, you do have players in this league that "bleed" their team colors. I agree that they are employees, but that doesn't mean they don't have pride for thier teams.

tomjonesrocks
04-01-2009, 07:54 AM
Let's see...we have 2 guys. One has proven successful at coaching, running an offense and manufacturing successful QB's. The other hasn't proven anything.

Yeah...makes sense to fire the only one fo the two that has had any success at all.

You're out of your mind. Cutler is arguably the most physically gifted QB in the league right now and IMO the best player on the roster, Champ included in his aging, injured state.

McDaniels has never been a head coach before. There have been dozens of OCs that have looked like sure things as HC candidates that turned out to be utter failures as HCs. It's McDaniels that hasn't proven anything--least of all that he's a leader of men.

OC and HC are vastly different jobs.

broncofaninfla
04-01-2009, 07:59 AM
Let's see...we have 2 guys. One has proven successful at coaching, running an offense and manufacturing successful QB's. The other hasn't proven anything.

Yeah...makes sense to fire the only one fo the two that has had any success at all.

What has McD proven? Serioulsy coach, point one decision McD has made to date that is postive for the Broncos as a franchise? The free agents signings? Trading off our franchise pro bowl QB? The unessesary scheme changes on the o-line? The flip flopping in the media? Telling CBS4 to stop talking about the QB conterversy then announcing a trade will in fact happen just 2 days later? Really coach, you rarely if ever have anything postive to say, how about doing it now. Give the members one reason for optimisim in having McD as our coach.

CoachChaz
04-01-2009, 08:03 AM
You're out of your mind. Cutler is arguably the most physically gifted QB in the league right now and IMO the best player on the roster, Champ included in his aging, injured state.

McDaniels has never been a head coach before. There have been dozens of OCs that have looked like sure things as HC candidates that turned out to be utter failures as HCs. It's McDaniels that hasn't proven anything--least of all that he's a leader of men. OC and HC are vastly different jobs.

I wont argue with the unknown when it comes to him as the HC. of course it's a gamble. But using your thinking, I can also say McD is arguably the most gifted and best coaching prospect in the NFL right now.

We dont know what McD will do and we dont know what Cutler will do. If he repeats this past season every year for the next 10 years...he's no more than a good QB. His Pro-Bowl invite was a complete GIFT.

Bottom line is both are talented and have a ton of potential in what they do. it comes down to preference. A QB that wants things done his way or else he whines and holds the team prisoner or a coach that will say things to piss off his players and risk alienating the thinner skinned ones.

roomemp
04-01-2009, 08:03 AM
What has McD proven? Serioulsy coach, point one decision McD has made to date that is postive for the Broncos as a franchise? The free agents signings? Trading off our franchise pro bowl QB? The unessesary scheme changes on the o-line? The flip flopping in the media? Telling CBS4 to stop talking about the QB conterversy then announcing a trade will in fact happen just 2 days later? Really coach, you raerely if ever have anything to say, how about doing it now. Give the members one reason for optimisim in having McD as our coach.


What has Jay proven in this league. He could make the Pro Bowl? Big deal. I want playoff births.

broncofaninfla
04-01-2009, 08:09 AM
What has Jay proven in this league. He could make the Pro Bowl? Big deal. I want playoff births.

Did you watch the games last year? Our DEFENSE was putrid last year. Brady or the Mannigs couldn't have led this team to the playoffs!

CoachChaz
04-01-2009, 08:10 AM
What has McD proven? Serioulsy coach, point one decision McD has made to date that is postive for the Broncos as a franchise? The free agents signings? Trading off our franchise pro bowl QB? The unessesary scheme changes on the o-line? The flip flopping in the media? Telling CBS4 to stop talking about the QB conterversy then announcing a trade will in fact happen just 2 days later? Really coach, you raerely if ever have anything to say, how about doing it now. Give the members one reason for optimisim in having McD as our coach.

I could sit here and show bulletproof evidence that McD has God in his back pocket and those who insist he is a failure still wont believe it.

Free agent signings - Focused on areas of need with very good players and most importantly...leaders.

Trading the Pro-Bowl QB - last I heard Cutler demanded that trade. Spew whatever assumption you will about the Cassel debacle, but until there is evidence that "listened to" was actually "tried to", it's all speculation.

Gagging CBS - Really? The coach has the power to do that?



Josh hasnt proven anything on the field as the coach of the Broncos yet and he probably wont in one season. This is a team that needs alot of help and will take time to fix. But if McDaniels can replicate the success he's had in the past, with less talent...then his hiring is a worthy gamble.

Here's the bottom line. McDaniels is the coach. That's not going to change. So everyone can either back the organization they claim to love so much or get on a bus and follow Cutler's jock from city to city in the NFL as he cements his legacy as today's Jeff George.

CoachChaz
04-01-2009, 08:11 AM
Did you watch the games last year? Our DEFENSE was putrid last year. Brady or the Mannigs couldn't have led this team to the playoffs!

Excuses excuses excuses. When is someone going to show where Cutler was so brilliant as opposed to showing why he couldnt be?

Elevation inc
04-01-2009, 08:21 AM
Excuses excuses excuses. When is someone going to show where Cutler was so brilliant as opposed to showing why he couldnt be?

if my memory serves me correctly......


he did have 4 game winning drives last year as well as 2 game tying drives.....thats pretty signifigant for a young Qb like himself.....especially with some factors like defense, special teams, his own learning curve, playcalling working against him......


had it not been for him tampa, new orleans, Clevland would have all won putting us at 4-12, 7-9 does sound better....lol
although we could have had a shot at curry, raji, or okrapo...lol

Elevation inc
04-01-2009, 08:24 AM
What has Jay proven in this league. He could make the Pro Bowl? Big deal. I want playoff births.

you must now wait for another franchise Qb, and a defense for that to happen

tomjonesrocks
04-01-2009, 08:25 AM
Excuses excuses excuses. When is someone going to show where Cutler was so brilliant as opposed to showing why he couldnt be?

You did see the stat that showed Cutler was 13-1 when the Broncos allowed 21 points or fewer, yes?

broncofaninfla
04-01-2009, 08:27 AM
I could sit here and show bulletproof evidence that McD has God in his back pocket and those who insist he is a failure still wont believe it.

Free agent signings - Focused on areas of need with very good players and most importantly...leaders.

Trading the Pro-Bowl QB - last I heard Cutler demanded that trade. Spew whatever assumption you will about the Cassel debacle, but until there is evidence that "listened to" was actually "tried to", it's all speculation.

Gagging CBS - Really? The coach has the power to do that?


Josh hasnt proven anything on the field as the coach of the Broncos yet and he probably wont in one season. This is a team that needs alot of help and will take time to fix. But if McDaniels can replicate the success he's had in the past, with less talent...then his hiring is a worthy gamble.

Here's the bottom line. McDaniels is the coach. That's not going to change. So everyone can either back the organization they claim to love so much or get on a bus and follow Cutler's jock from city to city in the NFL as he cements his legacy as today's Jeff George.

Please do, at this point I would love for sombody to give me some reason for optimism. Really, please do.

Areas of need? a long snapper and 3 RB's who aren't any better than the guys on our roster? Dawkins was an upgrade but where is the DL help we desperatly need?

Of course Cutler wants out!! Who wouldn't?!?? This is a debacle! McD looks like an a guy who is in way over his head, mistake after mistake and he is just two months into the job.

The Broncos organization asked cbs4 to let it die. I can't help but think McD and Xanders made that request.

I agree with one thing you said in your reply, Josh hasn't proven anything yet and I doubt he lasts past this season. Fans won't put up with losing and Bowlen can't handle it financially. No way McD makes it past this season, the guy is a blatant idiot.

Offseasons are a time for optimism for every team, McD has given me no reason for optimism for the upcoming season. We were a mediocre team last season but are being treated like we were 2-14 by Mcd and Xanders. I'll hope and pray for the best but the league isn't laughing at us for no reason.

roomemp
04-01-2009, 08:29 AM
Did you watch the games last year? Our DEFENSE was putrid last year. Brady or the Mannigs couldn't have led this team to the playoffs!

Thats not what I asked. I said what has JAY proven in this league. I think everybody knows what our D has proven

Gamechanger
04-01-2009, 08:32 AM
did you watch the games last year? Our defense was putrid last year. Brady or the mannigs couldn't have led this team to the playoffs!

2004

broncofaninfla
04-01-2009, 08:32 AM
Excuses excuses excuses. When is someone going to show where Cutler was so brilliant as opposed to showing why he couldnt be?


Take Cutler out of the equation last year and we are picking in the top 5 this year.

broncofaninfla
04-01-2009, 08:33 AM
2004

Our defense was far worse than the 2004 colt defense.

roomemp
04-01-2009, 08:34 AM
Take Cutler out of the equation last year and we are picking in the top 5 this year.

Nah nah nah........Take SHANNY out of the picture and we are top 5.

CoachChaz
04-01-2009, 08:41 AM
You did see the stat that showed Cutler was 13-1 when the Broncos allowed 21 points or fewer, yes?

So when the defense plays well, then CUTLER has a 13-1 record and when the defense plays bad...it's not his fault his numbers were bad. Got it.

claymore
04-01-2009, 08:57 AM
So when the defense plays well, then CUTLER has a 13-1 record and when the defense plays bad...it's not his fault his numbers were bad. Got it.

allowing 21 points is playing bad. And he was still 13-1. Allowing more than 21 points is really really bad.

CoachChaz
04-01-2009, 09:42 AM
allowing 21 points is playing bad. And he was still 13-1. Allowing more than 21 points is really really bad.

Like I said...CUTLER was 13-1...not the team. because surely the line and backs and recievers had nothing to do with it. My bet is any QB in history had a decent record when their defense showed up, but I'm just guessing here.

Lonestar
04-01-2009, 03:37 PM
So, in one thread Warhorse is crying in his wheaties and blowing smoke up Cutler's ass and in this thread we have shazam blowing smoke up McDaniels ass. Wonderful.

I guess we have to ask who are we a fan of? :salute:

Watchthemiddle
04-01-2009, 03:41 PM
Like I said...CUTLER was 13-1...not the team. because surely the line and backs and recievers had nothing to do with it. My bet is any QB in history had a decent record when their defense showed up, but I'm just guessing here.

How many turnovers did Cutler have in the 30+ point loses?

The numbers are outstanding!

You notice, those who want to always point blame at the D and the 30+ stat, never mention Cutlers play during those games.

weazel
04-01-2009, 03:45 PM
I prefer you dont mention me in your posts.

Seriously.

Cutler isn't the only one acting like a child

Lonestar
04-01-2009, 03:46 PM
Once again I will say if we can fix the Defense in two years with the picks/player we get for Jay and we do not need a rocket arm QB to play in this scheme what is the issue?

As it stood I did not see us having a viable defense until 2011 or longer just trying to fix it via th draft.. if this speeds it up with 3-4 extra day one picks over the next two years.. and we get studs out of them..We get to the playoffs sooner and build the team via the draft like it should have been from the git go..

Thnikkaman
04-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Shazam, for the first recorded time, I agree with you.

Denver27og
04-01-2009, 04:49 PM
What has McD proven? Serioulsy coach, point one decision McD has made to date that is postive for the Broncos as a franchise? The free agents signings? Trading off our franchise pro bowl QB? The unessesary scheme changes on the o-line? The flip flopping in the media? Telling CBS4 to stop talking about the QB conterversy then announcing a trade will in fact happen just 2 days later? Really coach, you rarely if ever have anything postive to say, how about doing it now. Give the members one reason for optimisim in having McD as our coach.

seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ffffin mcdick would have to win the damm superbowl for me to regain any respect at all for his bitchass..

Shazam!
04-01-2009, 09:54 PM
Shazam, for the first recorded time, I agree with you.

There are other times Nikka, you just haven't recorded them publicly.