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View Full Version : What would make the Manning acquisition a success?



wayninja
03-11-2012, 06:22 PM
Assuming we did sign Peyton to at least 1 year deal, under what circumstances would you consider that deal a success?

Vote, discuss, and show your work when explaining your choice please.

I would also like to appeal, up front, that this not degrade into a flame war regarding your personal prefer... oh who am I kidding?


edit: Also, you can choose more than 1 option if you'd like, just please be sure to explain.

Nomad
03-11-2012, 06:28 PM
He has to match Tebow or better, which means a playoff win or better.

MileHighCrew
03-11-2012, 06:30 PM
Always want Super Bowls and I think that is the goal, I believe Manning in Denver gives the Broncos the best chance of that coming true.
That said I was never sold on Tebow as a franchise QB, not matter how fun last season was, and it really was fun, this might be the best way to move forward with a QB Elway wants

wayninja
03-11-2012, 06:32 PM
Always want Super Bowls and I think that is the goal, I believe Manning in Denver gives the Broncos the best chance of that coming true.
That said I was never sold on Tebow as a franchise QB, not matter how fun last season was, and it really was fun, this might be the best way to move forward with a QB Elway wants

Thanks for the response, MHC, but can you elaborate a bit on on your 'other' vote? Are you saying the success would be simply to move away from Tebow, but not necessarily trade him? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, just want to be clear.

catfish
03-11-2012, 06:35 PM
I will go with playoff win this year, but realistically would consider that bare minimum

topscribe
03-11-2012, 06:45 PM
Even though I voted "Super Bowl champs," I realistically hope the Broncos just can make the playoffs this year. The schedule is just brutal . . .

Simple Jaded
03-11-2012, 09:00 PM
One win and the end of Tebowmania.......

SmilinAssasSin27
03-11-2012, 09:01 PM
Leaves the franchise w/ a legit hope of contending for a title after his departure.

I want teams to fear/respect us as an all round team. Our youth develops. His presence attracts free agents. Then we draft his successor in 2012 to be groomed.

hotcarl
03-11-2012, 09:40 PM
Get well soon dj Williams

tomjonesrocks
03-11-2012, 09:43 PM
I wondered this considering Elways vaunted "3-year plan". Did the plan acquiring a gamble on a 36 year old hall of fame QB? I doubt it.

wayninja
03-11-2012, 09:52 PM
One win and the end of Tebowmania.......

As long as Tebow is gone, we can go 1-15 and have this deal be a success. Wow.

weazel
03-11-2012, 11:02 PM
if they get Manning they should keep tebow as a RB/TE and backup QB

chazoe60
03-11-2012, 11:16 PM
One win and the end of Tebowmania.......

I wish there was a low five.

chazoe60
03-11-2012, 11:22 PM
One win and the end of Tebowmania.......

I realize this post is mostly in jest but I've seen you post for quite a while now (under this handle and your old name Link) and what I see is a guy who hates Tebow more than he loves the Broncos.

topscribe
03-11-2012, 11:22 PM
One win and the end of Tebowmania.......

That's where you and I differ, I think. If we're stuck with Tebow, I hope he blossoms into a superstar and the Broncos go to the Super Bowl. It wouldn't take much to get me onto his bandwagon. Just start performing like a good QB, that's all.

gregbroncs
03-11-2012, 11:24 PM
if they get Manning they should keep tebow as a RB/TE and backup QBIf they get Manning they should trade Tebow to Jax for MJD. :cool:

Simple Jaded
03-11-2012, 11:27 PM
I realize this post is mostly in jest but I've seen you post for quite a while now (under this handle and your old name Link) and what I see is a guy who hates Tebow more than he loves the Broncos.

That's what ya'll told me during the McDaniels Error.

Like l told HP, this is just a message board and you don't ****in know me. Take what you want from my posts, but you don't have to worry about my "Love" for the Broncos. I want nothing but the best for that franchise, we all want that. Fwiw, I don't expect you to believe me any more than you should expect me to care if you do.......

wayninja
03-11-2012, 11:32 PM
That's what ya'll told me during the McDaniels Error.

Like l told HP, this is just a message board and you don't ****in know me. Take what you want from my posts, but you don't have to worry about my "Love" for the Broncos. I want nothing but the best for that franchise, we all want that. Fwiw, I don't expect you to believe me any more than you should expect me to care if you do.......

Your level of utter hatred for Tebow has been pretty intense. Having said that, I doubt Chazoe or anyone else gives 2 shits about who you love and hate. You've made the hate part obvious is all.

chazoe60
03-11-2012, 11:34 PM
That's what ya'll told me during the McDaniels Error.

Like l told HP, this is just a message board and you don't ****in know me. Take what you want from my posts, but you don't have to worry about my "Love" for the Broncos. I want nothing but the best for that franchise, we all want that. Fwiw, I don't expect you to believe me any more than you should expect me to care if you do.......
I didn't tell you shit during the McD error because I wasn't really posting here.

weazel
03-11-2012, 11:35 PM
If they get Manning they should trade Tebow to Jax for MJD. :cool:

ya dont hold your breath lol
I think they would get a 2nd round pick

gregbroncs
03-11-2012, 11:40 PM
ya dont hold your breath lol
I think they would get a 2nd round pickHey I can dream. MJD would be pissed though. He would immediately become Jax's only offense if Tebow joined him. :)

weazel
03-11-2012, 11:49 PM
Hey I can dream. MJD would be pissed though. He would immediately become Jax's only offense if Tebow joined him. :)

I think he would be better off having tebow there.

Simple Jaded
03-11-2012, 11:52 PM
I didn't tell you shit during the McD error because I wasn't really posting here.

Uh huh. Does stnzed over at the official message board ring a bell? Wouldn't blame ya if you don't remember, it's been years since Alastor banned me but this isn't the first time l've had the pleasure of your whiny bullshit.......

chazoe60
03-11-2012, 11:53 PM
Hey I can dream. MJD would be pissed though. He would immediately become Jax's only offense if Tebow joined him. :)

Yeah because Gabbert really lit it up :rolleyes:

Do some of you even think before you type?

I want PM too but the way so many people have used this as an oportunity to jump on the Tebow shit talk bandwagon is ******* annoying as Hell.

topscribe
03-11-2012, 11:57 PM
Yeah because Gabbert really lit it up :rolleyes:

Do some of you even think before you type?

I want PM too but the way so many people have used this as an oportunity to jump on the Tebow shit talk bandwagon is ******* annoying as Hell.
I know, Chaz, and I guess I'm guilty. But I wasn't thinking opportunity. I was just calling it like I see it.

But you're right in your implication: I've said enough. :)

MileHighCrew
03-12-2012, 07:19 AM
Thanks for the response, MHC, but can you elaborate a bit on on your 'other' vote? Are you saying the success would be simply to move away from Tebow, but not necessarily trade him? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, just want to be clear.

No problem, it was more of a either/or, any of the above vote. I think just getting Peyton Manning to sign in Denver is a success after the McD era. Of course Super Bowl is a win, moving Tebow could be a win. They are all win's, no way to say this has to happen for it to be a win.

MileHighCrew
03-12-2012, 07:27 AM
Yeah because Gabbert really lit it up :rolleyes:

Do some of you even think before you type?

I want PM too but the way so many people have used this as an oportunity to jump on the Tebow shit talk bandwagon is ******* annoying as Hell.

I didn't really think about it, but I'm sure it has come across that way from me as well. I never intended on bashing Tebow, but I have said even during the run last season I wasn't sold on his QB play. Personally I hope Denver moves on with PM, but I hope that doesn't make me sound like an anti-Teboi, I just think PM is a much better option.

The Peytonator
03-12-2012, 07:38 AM
I voted 12 wins and an AFC title. Peyton carried a sorryass Colts team that barely won 2 games without him, and regularly won 12 games. I think he can do that and more with a competent Broncos team that doesn't have Jim Caldwell for their coach....and they play defense.

chazoe60
03-12-2012, 07:42 AM
I didn't really think about it, but I'm sure it has come across that way from me as well. I never intended on bashing Tebow, but I have said even during the run last season I wasn't sold on his QB play. Personally I hope Denver moves on with PM, but I hope that doesn't make me sound like an anti-Teboi, I just think PM is a much better option.

Not you at all MHC. I have no problem with people who don't believe in Tebow. It's the ones that are so disrespectful and arrogant about it, and that's not you.

broncophan
03-12-2012, 08:10 AM
def playoffs would make it a success...but I dont think it matters who our qb is next year....looking at the schedule....I just dont see the broncos sneaking into the playoffs again....imo...

gregbroncs
03-12-2012, 08:29 AM
Yeah because Gabbert really lit it up :rolleyes:

Do some of you even think before you type?

I want PM too but the way so many people have used this as an oportunity to jump on the Tebow shit talk bandwagon is ******* annoying as Hell.It was meant as a joke(not a good one obviously). I did not watch a single Jax game. If we get Manning then to me it means Tebow must go. We will need another QB to back up Manning but with his rabid fan base, and completely different skill set I don't think it should be Tebow.

catfish
03-12-2012, 08:36 AM
Yeah because Gabbert really lit it up :rolleyes:

Do some of you even think before you type?

I want PM too but the way so many people have used this as an oportunity to jump on the Tebow shit talk bandwagon is ******* annoying as Hell.

Jacksonville is suprisingly high on Gabbert, their fanbase thinks next year will be his breakout year if only they can get him some talent around him

vandammage13
03-12-2012, 08:45 AM
AFC Champs at 23%
Superbowl Appearance at 26%

These are essentially the same thing aren't they?

Regardless, it seems that most think its Superbowl Appearance or bust if we get Manning.

wayninja
03-12-2012, 08:49 AM
AFC Champs at 23%
Superbowl Appearance at 26%

These are essentially the same thing aren't they?

Regardless, it seems that most think its Superbowl Appearance or bust if we get Manning.

Yeah, they are essentially the same thing, that's my bad.

But I agree... most have pretty high expectations if we sign Manning. I personally can't imagine us being AFC champs next year even if we get Manning.

TXBRONC
03-12-2012, 08:51 AM
There is only one reason that we would be bringing Manning and that would be to win a Super Bowl.

That said I can't think of even one time where quarterback of his caliber has won a Super Bowl as a starter for two different teams.

TXBRONC
03-12-2012, 08:54 AM
AFC Champs at 23%
Superbowl Appearance at 26%

These are essentially the same thing aren't they?

Regardless, it seems that most think its Superbowl Appearance or bust if we get Manning.

I don't think so. The reason you get a guy like Manning is win a Super Bowl not just get to AFCCG.

wayninja
03-12-2012, 08:58 AM
Does all of this imply that if Manning doesn't bring us home a trophy that this pickup is a failure?

Thnikkaman
03-12-2012, 08:58 AM
If he signs with a team other than the Broncos, and eats up their salary with his rubber neck.

vandammage13
03-12-2012, 09:01 AM
I agree...The expectation of SB will be there...Not sure if it's realistic or even fair to Manning, but that's what it will be.

Many will assume if we can get to the Divisional round with Tebow, then there's no reason we can't make it to the Superbowl with Manning.

This line of thinking makes sense on the surface, but there are many holes on this team IMO and I think we overachieved (regardless of what you think about our QB play) last year...We were not good team last year...Decent, but far from good.

In all honesty, if Peyton were our QB this past season, I don't think we would have went any further than we did without him....Maybe a better regular season record, but we wouldn't have made much noise in the playoffs.

vandammage13
03-12-2012, 09:02 AM
The poll says AFC Champs, not AFCCG appearance.

Traveler
03-12-2012, 09:06 AM
Assuming we did sign Peyton to at least 1 year deal, under what circumstances would you consider that deal a success?

Vote, discuss, and show your work when explaining your choice please.

I would also like to appeal, up front, that this not degrade into a flame war regarding your personal prefer... oh who am I kidding?


edit: Also, you can choose more than 1 option if you'd like, just please be sure to explain.


Only a success if Mario Williams was the major acquisition on the defensive side.:D

vandammage13
03-12-2012, 09:12 AM
Only a success if Mario Williams was the major acquisition on the defensive side.:D

If we could land Manning, Wayne, and Mario Williams the expectations would be through the roof.

With a guy like Manning leading the way, I don't think it would be a repeat of what the Eagles went through last year with their "Dream Team"

Looking at the AFC, its wide open, so I can see why people will be expecting at least a SB appearance...Winning against a much deeper NFC is a different story altogether.

Traveler
03-12-2012, 09:23 AM
If we could land Manning, Wayne, and Mario Williams the expectations would be through the roof.

With a guy like Manning leading the way, I don't think it would be a repeat of what the Eagles went through last year with their "Dream Team"

Looking at the AFC, its wide open, so I can see why people will be expecting at least a SB appearance...Winning against a much deeper NFC is a different story altogether.

Just those two major dollar acquisitions would be fine with me. Still not sure, if we land Manning, if the investment is a good one. His health issues really concern me. As I Stated in another thread, hopefully the team has clauses in the contract that will protect them if Manning misses considerable time due to his neck issues. It'd be totally negligent if they didn't.

Although a pipe dream, landing Williams would definitely set the defense up to be one of the most formidable in the league. Almost on par with the NYG.

vandammage13
03-12-2012, 09:35 AM
Just those two major dollar acquisitions would be fine with me. Still not sure, if we land Manning, if the investment is a good one. His health issues really concern me. As I Stated in another thread, hopefully the team has clauses in the contract that will protect them if Manning misses considerable time due to his neck issues. It'd be totally negligent if they didn't.

Although a pipe dream, landing Williams would definitely set the defense up to be one of the most formidable in the league. Almost on par with the NYG.

I have reservations on Manning due to his health concerns as well...However, I do think that it is worth the risk. We do not have to invest picks in him, only $$....Sure, if he gets hurt then that could set us back a year or so, but again, I think the risk is worth the reward.

If we do land Manning, we'll probably move Tebow as well, which would mean we might be able to get another much needed draft pick from a team like Jacksonville.

I'd hate to see Tebow go, but if its for Manning, sign me up. As big of a fan of Tebow that I am, if there's someone out there that can improve this team (Manning is better) then I have no problem with it.

BigDaddyBronco
03-12-2012, 09:42 AM
I think there is short term success and long term success. For the short term success, I would want to see the team win the AFC West and be in the hunt for a 1st round bye. Then in the playoffs, we need to be competitive, win or lose, hopefully at least an AFC Championship game.

For the long term success, we would need to keep Tebow and have him continue to develop and come out of the gates a much better thrower when Manning is done. Like Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers when they took over from HOFers. If they trade Tebow, and he becomes a consistent pro-bowl QB wherever he ends up then the long term plan will be a failure. If they trade him and he doesn't improve, then whew we at least got something out of him.

Traveler
03-12-2012, 10:01 AM
I think there is short term success and long term success. For the short term success, I would want to see the team win the AFC West and be in the hunt for a 1st round bye. Then in the playoffs, we need to be competitive, win or lose, hopefully at least an AFC Championship game.

For the long term success, we would need to keep Tebow and have him continue to develop and come out of the gates a much better thrower when Manning is done. Like Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers when they took over from HOFers. If they trade Tebow, and he becomes a consistent pro-bowl QB wherever he ends up then the long term plan will be a failure. If they trade him and he doesn't improve, then whew we at least got something out of him.

This makes the most sense, with the caveat being what happens with Tebow if the team selects a QB in the 2nd round? We've invested a 1st round pick (more if you add the picks given away for Tebow) for our so-called QBOTF twice since 2006.

The possibility of trading TT for any less than a 2nd means he should remain here regardless if we acquire Manning or draft another QB.

BigDaddyBronco
03-12-2012, 10:11 AM
This makes the most sense, with the caveat being what happens with Tebow if the team selects a QB in the 2nd round? We've invested a 1st round pick (more if you add the picks given away for Tebow) for our so-called QBOTF twice since 2006.

The possibility of trading TT for any less than a 2nd means he should remain here regardless if we acquire Manning or draft another QB.

I agree, which 2nd rounder would be worth the risk of dumping Tebow? The 28 year old Weeden or the 6'7" Osweiler? Cousins or Foles? I would rather stick with a known winner in Tebow, even if he can't throw yet, than risk it on an unknown.

capt. Jack
03-12-2012, 11:15 AM
We have to at least go to the Super Bowl, It would be great to " WIN ONE FOR PAT"!!!! I have to believe in ole #7 !!!!

TXBRONC
03-12-2012, 12:28 PM
We have to at least go to the Super Bowl, It would be great to " WIN ONE FOR PAT"!!!! I have to believe in ole #7 !!!!

Getting to the Super Bowl is much more palatable than not getting there at all but whole reason for signing a guy like Manning is to win it not just get there.

wayninja
03-12-2012, 12:34 PM
Getting to the Super Bowl is much more palatable than not getting there at all but whole reason for signing a guy like Manning is to win it not just get there.

I'm not disagreeing, but it seems to me like your goal is ALWAYS to get to the superbowl in every single decision and signing you make. Granted, some players are bigger/better than others, but at no time should you be making a decision or spending money where the goal is not to win, right?

Are there teams out there saying 'lets sign such and such because we aren't going to win anyway' ?

ShooterJM
03-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Given it's likely to only last 3 years. I say AFC championships and Super bowl wins. If the theory is Tebow held the team back, then PM better be able win Super Bowls with the current roster.

TXBRONC
03-12-2012, 01:05 PM
I'm not disagreeing, but it seems to me like your goal is ALWAYS to get to the superbowl in every single decision and signing you make. Granted, some players are bigger/better than others, but at no time should you be making a decision or spending money where the goal is not to win, right?

Are there teams out there saying 'lets sign such and such because we aren't going to win anyway' ?

I don't think they thought that last year. Elway said he believed it would take about three to make this team a contender. Did EFX believe that was realistic goal last year? I would think not given what they said going into last season. I know Shanahan has said it and others as well you tell your goal is to win Super Bowl you don't want give them excuse to lose.

I don't know of any teams that have said lets sign such and such player because we aren't going win anyway. That's not realistic I don't of any team wants that p.r. nightmare. I also think really coaches know if they have to the talent to compete and if they don't they're not going to come out say it outright.

catfish
03-12-2012, 01:07 PM
Getting to the Super Bowl is much more palatable than not getting there at all but whole reason for signing a guy like Manning is to win it not just get there.

I think that while winning the superbowl is always the goal I wouldn't consider the move for Peyton a failure if they dont win next year, and that is basically how I took the poll...if they don't in 4 years....maybe

TXBRONC
03-12-2012, 01:51 PM
I think that while winning the superbowl is always the goal I wouldn't consider the move for Peyton a failure if they dont win next year, and that is basically how I took the poll...if they don't in 4 years....maybe

Are you talking about the non-scientific poll on the DPO? Because in that poll the choice that got the most votes is one that says Manning would make and immediate difference in this season. Since it's a non-scientific it'd to hard say that people would give it four years. However since it says this season I would bet people are thinking a title this year. I also wouldn't want to bank on Manning having four more good seasons in him. Besides that Elway said it would take three years to make this team a competitive again not four.

I also can't think of even one instance where a quarterback like Manning has won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

catfish
03-12-2012, 02:04 PM
Are you talking about the non-scientific poll on the DPO? Because in that poll the choice that got the most votes is one that says Manning would make and immediate difference in this season. Since it's a non-scientific it'd to hard say that people would give it four years. However since it says this season I would bet people are thinking a title this year. I also wouldn't want to bank on Manning having four more good seasons in him. Besides that Elway said it would take three years to make this team a competitive again not four.

I also can't think of even one instance where a quarterback like Manning has won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

I was referencing this poll, my thought was if they don't win a superbowl this year would I call this a failed move....to me, no, the rest of the team will still be learning a new offense, the D is still young with holes. I would expect the following year to make a SB appearance at the least, but would be happy with a playoff win next year

chazoe60
03-12-2012, 02:55 PM
Uh huh. Does stnzed over at the official message board ring a bell? Wouldn't blame ya if you don't remember, it's been years since Alastor banned me but this isn't the first time l've had the pleasure of your whiny bullshit.......

I wish you would have told me you were stnzed, I could have been ignoring your bullshit all along.


Not worth the time.

NightTerror218
03-12-2012, 04:48 PM
I am real curious how the offense will work, Manning would be running the show but Fox is a run first coach. he loves the control. Will Manning give up some of his passing (40-50 attempts) per game to allow for a more even passing/rushing attack?

catfish
03-12-2012, 05:38 PM
I am real curious how the offense will work, Manning would be running the show but Fox is a run first coach. he loves the control. Will Manning give up some of his passing (40-50 attempts) per game to allow for a more even passing/rushing attack?

I think a lot of it will depend on the ability of the WR to function in the offense, also depends on how good/poor the run blocking actually is

NightTerror218
03-12-2012, 05:42 PM
I think a lot of it will depend on the ability of the WR to function in the offense, also depends on how good/poor the run blocking actually is

I think run blocking is better then out pass protection. Fox wants to get OL that are great at run blocking, like Franklin.

catfish
03-12-2012, 05:44 PM
I think run blocking is better then out pass protection. Fox wants to get OL that are great at run blocking, like Franklin.

I dunno, PFF doesn't agree, but that is always up for discussion. I will say this it will be much easier to see if there are shortcomings on the team when the QB can be eliminated from the discussion

topscribe
03-12-2012, 08:38 PM
Uh huh. Does stnzed over at the official message board ring a bell? Wouldn't blame ya if you don't remember, it's been years since Alastor banned me but this isn't the first time l've had the pleasure of your whiny bullshit.......


I wish you would have told me you were stnzed, I could have been ignoring your bullshit all along.


Not worth the time.

One thing we have tried to do from the start is to make this board a fresh start: Make no judgments on the past and leave problems on other boards behind.

C'mon, guys, what'ya say? :nod:

NightTerror218
03-13-2012, 11:48 AM
It has to be SB or bust. When you go against your own philosophy for the team to get a HOF QB. You are spending big money on him rather then filling holes and building. If has to be the short future. You are not going for the long term answer with Manning. He only has about 3 yrs left. It is superbowl or bust. This is when you cut young players and sign vets to make that final push.

Sacrifice the future for the now. I really hope this is not what they are going to do. Sign older players and load up for a SB push for a couple years.